Welcome to Classic Christianity Radio with Bob George. Today we are pleased to present a special radio show featuring call-in listeners from Bob’s original people-to-people daily radio program that was on the air for over 30 years, offering real answers for real-life problems as he addresses common questions as well as the tough issues of today, directing callers to the centrality of Christ in you, your only hope of glory. We want to remind our listeners that Bob George Ministries needs your financial support to continue to have Classic Christianity Radio on the air. Please visit bobgeorge.net to find out how you can help support us financially. Let’s now join Bob as he presents practical biblical insights as he helps people experience a life of faith, hope, and love in Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER 07 :
We’re going to go to Greenville, South Carolina, listening on WELP. Doug, you’re on the air.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, hello, Bob.
SPEAKER 07 :
Hi, Doug.
SPEAKER 05 :
How are you doing?
SPEAKER 07 :
I’m doing good. Thank you, Doug.
SPEAKER 05 :
I just wanted to clarify something. You’ve talked before about the difference between redemption and atonement of Christ forgiving our sins. And what’s your position on it?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, atonement doesn’t have anything to do with the New Testament at all, Doug. Atonement was what the blood of bulls and goats did. It covered sin. Jesus didn’t come to cover sin. He came to take away sin. And that’s why the word atonement is not used in the new covenant. It’s sometimes translated, but it’s a poor translation. What took place when Jesus finished his work was a word called propitiation took place, which means that God looked down on the sacrifice and said, I’m satisfied. That’s it. There’s no more sacrifice now for sins. That’s not atonement at all. Jesus didn’t atone for sin. He came to take away the sins of the world. And that’s why he was identified by John the Baptist as, Behold, the Lamb of God who didn’t come to cover sin, but who takes away the sins of the world.
SPEAKER 05 :
I’ve checked on that. in Webster’s Dictionary, and the words redemption and atonement seem to be synonymous.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, Webster had any authority in regard to biblical language, so you just can forget that one. Atonement, again, was what took place with the blood of bulls and ghosts. The Greek word for atonement and the Greek words for taking away are two different words altogether, and the word atonement is not used in the Greek New Testament. in regard to the new covenant we stand in. Redemption is buying back. If you remember the old redemption centers where you turned in some worthless green stamps and got a toaster, why, that’s what redemption is. We gave him all that we are, nothing, and he gave us all that he is, everything, and that’s what’s called the exchange life.
SPEAKER 05 :
But all the major evangelical theologians, they use the word atonement interchangeably.
SPEAKER 07 :
Not all of them at all, Doug. Certainly not all of them do, and we certainly don’t. And there’s a reason for it. I’m just getting back to the fact, Doug, that it is not used in the original Greek language. Now, grab a hold of that and forget this other stuff. I wouldn’t care if every theologian in the world used it. They’re using it wrong. Atonement was the covering of a blood and bull and goat. And when you put Jesus’ blood on the same par as a bull and goat, you’re disgracing the Lord Jesus Christ. And people ought to quit doing that. So it’s a very simple thing. I don’t put the blood of Christ on the same par as a bull and a goat. And that’s what it says in the Scripture is the blood of bulls and goats can never take away sin, clear as a bell. But when Jesus died, he took away the sins of the world. The blood of bulls and goats can’t take it away. That’s called atonement. And so people ought to quit jerking around that stuff and just accept it as what it is. And use the words properly so that you don’t discredit what Christ went to do. He didn’t come to cover our sins. He came to take it away from the eyes of God, never to see it again.
SPEAKER 05 :
There’s no atonement. Yeah, I’m sure they mean, when they use that word atonement, they mean it will take away.
SPEAKER 07 :
If they mean it, then they ought to say it. Because, Doug, that’s how you confuse and deceive people. If you mean it, then you ought to say it. And if they thought that atonement meant taking away, then they would quit using the word atonement and say taking away. I don’t have any problem at all teaching taking away the sins of the world. I never use atonement because that isn’t what Jesus came to do. I have no problem with words at all. So just use the words as they’re there. And then, therefore, people don’t get confused by them.
SPEAKER 05 :
And another thing, people are always using the term, ask Jesus to forgive your sins. And they do it in the context of knowing that he has already redeemed our sin. They use those words just as a form of, you know, humility, I think, more than anything.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, if you’re going to use, in other words, in order for me to be humble, I’m going to lie. Doug. Get real, my friend. Quit grabbing a hold of this justification of what people are saying. Believe me, people are not saying that Jesus took away my sins, and I know that, but I just ask them. They do not. They believe that there is unforgiveness. There’s a mark on my slate that I have to get clean. That’s why people call it a bar of soap. There is a mark that has to get erased. And that is a lie out of the pit of hell. There is no mark that has to be erased. Our sins have been taken away from the eyes of God never to see them again. We should be resting by faith in that truth instead of jacking around with all of this feel-good stuff. And so if a person believes that my sins have been taken away, when I came to understand and believe the truth of that, it was no longer asking God to do what he has already done. That is not faith, it’s presumption. And so we can’t sit around and say, well, I understand that, but. I mean, I had a guy that perpetuated that as a dear friend of mine. I said, Bill, that is just nonsense. The issue is that if you believe that Jesus has taken away the sins of the world from the eyes of God, never to see them again, you’ll never ask him to do again what he has already done. And so you don’t do that in order to feel good. What makes you feel good is walk by faith. And that’s what Christians are not doing today. We’re not walking by faith. We’re walking by presumption and by tradition.
SPEAKER 05 :
But if you really believe… Yeah, every time a new sin comes along, everybody seems to ask forgiveness for it.
SPEAKER 07 :
Absolutely, instead of thanking him for what he’s already done. They should be thanking him. If they really believe that it has been taken away, they should be thanking him. That’s what you do when something’s already occurred is thank. Now, if I have to activate that, why, then I’m not thanking him, I’m asking and hoping that he’s going to do what I ask him to do. Doesn’t make any sense, does it?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 07 :
Sure doesn’t make any sense to me. Does that help, my brother?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, a little bit. You know, I have a, you know, he could play with semantics a lot, you know.
SPEAKER 07 :
Again, you know what, Doug? I’ve heard all of that stuff, and I’m sick and tired of hearing it. People aren’t playing with semantics. They do not believe the Scriptures. That’s why they do what they do. I don’t believe the Scriptures. If I believed, and when I came to understand the truth that Jesus took away my sins from the eyes of God, never to see them again, the dumbest thing in the world for me to do was to ask him to forgive me. That’s the dumbest thing in the world, if I believe that. If I don’t believe that, why, it’s the most natural thing to do. If Jesus went to a cross to die for some sins, but not all sins, then the most natural thing for me to do, because I don’t know which one he’s forgiven and which one he hasn’t, is to ask him for forgiveness. Very natural. But if I believe what the Scripture says, that God was in Christ reconciling the whole world unto himself, not counting their sins against them, then when I sin, I’m going to thank him for what he did, and I’m not going to ask him, thinking there’s unforgiveness there, a slate, a mark that I have to get erased. That is not belief. It is not faith. It is what the Scripture says. It is making a mockery of the grace of God and treating as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified us. And that Bible in Hebrew says that any man who continues to sin against the knowledge of truth, and the knowledge of truth is there are sins and lawless acts I remember no more. Where these have been forgiven, there’s no longer any sacrifice for sins. That’s the knowledge of truth it’s talking about. And you continue sinning against that knowledge of truth. By saying no, I’m going to get my sins forgiven by 1 John 1, 9. I’m going to get my sins forgiven by going to the Day of Atonement. I’m going to get my sins forgiven by going to the priest or whatever harebrained idea we’ve come up with. Here’s what the Scripture says. You have nothing to look forward to except the raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. You’re spitting in the face of Jesus who had to suffer and die to take away my sins from the eyes of God. And we’re saying that wasn’t good enough, Jesus. You just watch how dedicated I am in keeping my sins forgiven.
SPEAKER 05 :
That would eliminate a lot of guilt if everyone thanked rather than, you know, asked.
SPEAKER 07 :
He died to take away our sin and guilt, both of them. In order to be guilty, someone’s got to accuse me, and there is no more accusation against us. There’s no more condemnation awaiting those who belong to Christ Jesus. The condemnation for God and sin is death, and that has been cured to a born-again person by the gift of God, which is life. So the spirit of life has set me free from the law of sin and death. Yeah. It’s good news, brother.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, I know that because I do believe, you know, he redeemed and perfectly took away it all, and I am thankful for that.
SPEAKER 07 :
Amen. Well, just continue thanking him, and that’s what you do when you have faith. You thank him, Doug, and you’re on the right track there, pal. All right. Thanks a lot. All right. You’re sure welcome, Doug. God bless you, my friend. Bye-bye.
SPEAKER 02 :
Classic Christianity Radio is a listener-funded program, and because of your generous donations, we are able to be on the air. Go to bobgeorge.net online for more information about how to purchase helpful books and Bible study materials to guide you as you grow in your relationship with Jesus. The bobgeorge.net website also has additional information on how you can join us financially to help support the radio ministry. With your prayers and support, we can continue to share the good news of Jesus Christ. Let’s continue now with the teaching message.
SPEAKER 07 :
Monroe, Michigan, listening on WRDT. Kyle, you’re on the air.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, I have, like in Galatians 320, I’m reading from the Amplified Bible. It’s talking about a mediator, but then it says, God is only one person. And I hear these people teaching like God is three and one or something. How could that be when it says God is only one person?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, it doesn’t say God is one person because God isn’t a person. God is God, and God is spirit, and you must worship him in spirit and truth. And the problem we have is with our little pea minds are trying to put flesh and blood on God and trying to understand him. He’s a trinity.
SPEAKER 03 :
I thought he took on flesh and blood.
SPEAKER 07 :
No, no, no. God is not flesh and blood. God is spirit. You must worship him in spirit and in truth. But doesn’t he have two natures now since that he… No, he doesn’t have… We don’t know whether he has a nature or not. That’s not our business to figure out the character of God. He was revealed to us in his fullness through Christ Jesus, Kyle.
SPEAKER 03 :
And Jesus said… God manifests in the flesh, right? 1 Timothy 3.16.
SPEAKER 07 :
What’s your question, Kyle? I can’t… Go ahead.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, how can there be a trinity when…
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, because the Bible says there’s a Trinity. It said to go baptize people in the name of the Father and Son and Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER 03 :
That doesn’t say there’s a Trinity because all three of those names, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, all apply to Jesus.
SPEAKER 07 :
No, they don’t.
SPEAKER 03 :
Father, Isaiah 9-6, that’s his name.
SPEAKER 07 :
No, no, no. Listen. You remember when it talks about the Scripture that the end times, and I’ll find it for you, that the end times… That all things are going to be turned over to Jesus, and they said everything was turned over to him, except that did not mean God, who is over all things.
SPEAKER 03 :
And at that time… Then you’re saying he’s not God, right?
SPEAKER 07 :
Kyle, quit putting things and quit being a wise guy and putting things in people’s mouths. Just because you believe some kind of a doctrine that doesn’t make an ounce of sense and is totally contrary to Scripture, you become belligerent. Now, the issue is that Jesus said that he was God. In the Scripture, it says that the Holy Spirit is God. And in the Scripture, it says the Father is God. And it says there’s one God. Now, you’re trying to put one plus one plus one and make it equal three. And that’s spirit. You cannot put flesh and blood on spirit. You’re denying the fact that God is spirit.
SPEAKER 03 :
And the Bible says… Oh, that’s John 4, 24. I know he’s spirit.
SPEAKER 07 :
Okay, well then, if he’s spirit, quit trying to put flesh and blood on him and quit trying to understand the Scripture. It is declared very clearly in the Scripture, Jesus is God, the Holy Spirit is declared as God, and God the Father.
SPEAKER 03 :
Didn’t he take on flesh, though? Didn’t God become manifest?
SPEAKER 07 :
No, no, only in the sun. Only in the sun. It’s like an egg, Kyle. An egg is made up of a white and a yolk and a shell, and yet it’s one egg. Now, as an example, all examples will fall somewhat short, but… If you had an egg in the attic and you wanted to save the people in the kitchen and they decided for the yoke to come down into the kitchen and save mankind, would there be any less of an egg in the house? No. That’s the yoke that’s down there that took upon himself flesh.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, can I read you a verse about Jesus?
SPEAKER 07 :
No, not about that. There’s no Trinity. A man who denies the Trinity, quite frankly, will lose his soul. So I’m not interested in that.
SPEAKER 03 :
Let me read the Bible.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, yeah. Well, I’m not reading, and I don’t take the Trinity out of the Koran.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, listen to this verse. It’s talking about Jesus, 1 Timothy 6, 50 to 16. It says he is the only sovereign ruler of the kingdom, king of the lord of lords, who alone has immortality. Nobody else has it, just him.
SPEAKER 07 :
Just him.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s what it says. It says who alone has immortality. Well, how do you see?
SPEAKER 07 :
No, you’re messed up. When he’s talking about Jesus, you can’t say that Jesus is separate from God. Jesus is God. So is the Holy Spirit. So is the Father. Well, Kyle, arguing against the Trinity is just nonsense, and quite frankly, it is so unbiblical. what you’re doing there, and I think quite dangerous because I don’t think that this should be something that people should be arguing over. In other words, or dividing the body when Jesus declared himself. Who do you think Jesus was talking to in the Garden of Gethsemane? Who did he talk to? Who did he say, I don’t know? Listen, he says, I don’t do anything unless the Father tells me to do it. Now, would that put himself in a be at a position of submission to the father i don’t say anything unless the father tells me to say it and how to say it and he said therefore as a father sent me so send i you he wasn’t sitting there talking to himself kyle he was he was saying i know he is talking from the fact that he was talking to his father now let me read something else to you well you already told me it wasn’t the father Well, of course he isn’t the Father. He’s the Son. That’s why he’s identified as the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit is identified as the Holy Spirit of God. I don’t know why that is so difficult for somebody to understand. You’ve got the egg. You’ve got the shell of the egg. You’ve got the white of the egg. You’ve got the yolk of the egg, and you’ve got one egg. I don’t know why that’s so difficult to understand. Let me read something to you, and then we’ll go ahead on this. It said, this is talking about Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead also comes through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all be made alive, but each in his own turn. Christ, the first fruit, and then those who come and those who belong to him. Then the end will come when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father, after he has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power. He must reign until he has put all of his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to destroy it is death, for he has put everything under his feet. He, God, has put everything under he, Jesus’ feet. Now, when it says that everything has been put under him, it’s clear that it does not include God himself. Now, how can you sit there and say when it says that Jesus is going to put everything back under the feet of God so that God will be all in all? Right now, God the Son is down here on this earth with the final authority of God to be the creator of all things. to be responsible for all things. When all his work is done, he will go back, and God will become who God is.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, you believe that Jesus is Almighty God?
SPEAKER 07 :
Of course he is. But I think the Father’s, but that doesn’t mean that he is anything except… Well, he’s the first and the last, the Almighty God. Yeah, I know, God. There’s no sense talking to somebody that cannot think logically. So we’re going to have to move on, brother. We’re going to go to El Paso, Texas, listening on KPAS. Sergio, you’re on the air.
SPEAKER 04 :
Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you for your time right now. I just have one simple question. Being part of a church organization, they’ve been able to go to church at church, and I noticed what seems to be very common is the blowing of the ram’s horn or the shafar. I know it’s a Jewish instrument, but And I know it’s mentioned in Exodus when they come to the mountain, as God comes down to the mountain, and also in the book of Revelations. But why does it seem to be used more often now? How biblical is it? Because I know there are certain tools that they blow that explain certain things. But I was wondering, is this something that actually should be used or should just be put aside just on special occasions?
SPEAKER 07 :
No, it isn’t anything holy. It’s a lamb’s horn. It’s called the shofar. It was a call to worship for the believers, of Jewish believers. We don’t need somebody to blow a horn to call us to worship God. As a matter of fact, we did. We’d have to… be calling it every moment of the day because what true worship, Sergio, in the New Testament that we live in today, not in the Old Testament for Jews. We have to realize, Sergio, we’re not Jews unless you are a Jew. We’re Gentiles, and we were never given the law. The law was never given to us. The law was given to the Jews only. And it says that in the Bible, when the Gentiles who did not have the law If they used it properly, weren’t they in a better shape than the Jews that did have it? So we never had the law. It was not for us. So these were just traditions of the Jewish nation. The shofar, a lamb’s horn, is not a Jewish instrument. It’s a lamb’s instrument. And they used it. They didn’t have trumpets and bugles back in those days, so they used what they could. And so, no, it was just merely a tradition of the Jewish people back in those days. People use it today. They could use anything they want to, but I’m sure that many times people are using it thinking they’re being very spiritual by doing so, but that’s ludicrous. Really, what worship is today, Sergio, is given to us in the Scripture, and he said to make your body available as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable in the sight of God, which is your reasonable act of worship. Back then, worship was far different. It was something you came to a place to do. Today, it’s something that you do every day. True worship, biblical New Testament worship, is making your body available to the living God to live his life in and through you. And that is my reasonable act of worship. You know, we have, like you say, worship service. We’re coming in to worship God. And I said, what a shame to think that the only time you worship God is, you know, one day a week, going to church for an hour or two and worshiping God the rest of the time, forgetting. Anybody can do that. You don’t have to be saved to go in and sing spiritual songs and get spiritual goosebumps and to go through all the different things that some people do. You don’t have to be saved at all to do that. But you have to be saved to make your body available to Christ Jesus to live in you. If he doesn’t live in you, you can’t make your body available to him. And so that’s what God now calls spiritual act of worship. Everything, Sergio, in the Old Testament was exterior. The law is all exterior. The New Testament came for the interior. Man looks on the outside. God looks on the inside.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah. Okay, outstanding. So it’s really just another instrument like everything else.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, just like anything else. Nothing sacred about it at all.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay. Thank you, sir. Thank you for your time, gentlemen.
SPEAKER 07 :
You’re sure welcome, my friend.
SPEAKER 04 :
Thank you, brother.
SPEAKER 07 :
Bye-bye. We’re going to go to Phoenix, Arizona, listening on the Internet. Ray, you’re on the air.
SPEAKER 06 :
Hello, Bob. Hi, Ray. Your ministry has really been a blessing to me and in my life as a Christian. Very disappointed that I’ve had some problems finding you on the radio, but I thank God for the Internet.
SPEAKER 07 :
We do too, my friend. I guarantee you we’re very grateful for that technology.
SPEAKER 06 :
My question is about the baptism that Jesus was speaking about in what they call the Great Commission. Was he telling the apostles to baptize Jesus? Was he talking about water, or was he talking about some kind of a form of identification, or what’s he talking about there exactly?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, Ray, again, in the context, you know, Jesus had stated, and so had John the Baptist, that I baptized John the Baptist with water, but the one coming after me, will baptize with the Holy Spirit and with fire, in other words, with judgment. And so, again, that’s the baptism that saves us. No waters, no external waters saves anybody. When you and I are identified with the triune God, and that was his commission to go into the world and make disciples, baptizing them in the name of the Father and Son and Holy Spirit. In other words, identifying them with the triune God. Now look what you have today. You have people who even deny that. They sit around in the midst of the fact that the Lord Jesus Christ himself, the last words ever said was to go and to identify people with the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. And people say, no, it’s Jesus only. And so the issue is that that is the Trinity. And until Christ came, we didn’t know who the trinity was we had no definition of the trinity until christ came to explain that god is made up of the father and the son and the holy spirit god is spirit you must worship him in spirit and truth and are in a way for us to know what spirit looks like and yet we try to put flesh and blood on the spirit and say i can’t understand it well you can’t understand spirit that’s the reason you can’t understand the trinity is you have no ability to understand spirit god didn’t give us that ability I can apprehend it, even though I can’t necessarily comprehend it. But no, that was to identify people with the triune God. If you had asked a Jew back in those days, who is God? They’d say, who do you worship? I worship the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Today, through that identification, their answer should be, I worship God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, thank you. It sounds like I got it right, and I really appreciate it. And you guys, I just can’t say it enough how much you’ve blessed me with your ministry. And just keep up the good work, because God’s really working through you. I really appreciate all that you do.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, thank you, my brother, and we appreciate you as well.
SPEAKER 06 :
God bless you, and thank you very much.
SPEAKER 07 :
Thank you, my friend.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 02 :
Bye-bye now.
SPEAKER 06 :
Bye-bye.
SPEAKER 02 :
Thank you so much for tuning in to Classic Christianity with Bob George. We hope you’ve enjoyed today’s program. We truly hope that today’s message has inspired you to walk a life of faith in the Lord. Find more information online at bobgeorge.net. There you’ll also find available CDs, DVDs and Bible studies available for purchase. It’s through your help that we are able to spread the good word of Jesus Christ. Until next time, walk in faith, be good to one another and praise the Lord. Amen.
