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Tony Perkins brings listeners through a whirlwind of pressing topics in this episode of Washington Watch, offering a thorough analysis of both domestic and international events. With debate intensifying over the spending bill and continuing resolution in Congress, expert guests share perspectives on the economic and political strategies at play in Washington, D.C. Listeners are taken beyond patterns of partisanship, gaining deeper insight into the evolving priorities in face of reconciliation and fiscal policies. From the corridors of the United Nations to the volatile regions of Syria, the episode sheds light on global diplomatic efforts and the role of
SPEAKER 15 :
from the heart of our nation’s capital in Washington, D.C., bringing compelling interviews, insightful analysis, taking you beyond the headlines and soundbites into conversations with our nation’s leaders and newsmakers, all from a biblical worldview. Washington Watch with Tony Perkins starts now.
SPEAKER 07 :
This is not your grandfather’s continuing resolution. This is a different type of spending bill that I think is the way that we need to do in order to keep the Trump administration, Elon Musk, and Doge to continue its promise to the American people to fight fraud, waste, and abuse in the federal government and increase its efficiency.
SPEAKER 08 :
That was House Freedom Caucus Chairman Andy Harris earlier today speaking in support of the six-month funding measure that will avert a government shutdown and allow the Republican-controlled Congress to focus on President Trump’s policy agenda. Welcome to this Tuesday edition of Washington Watch. Thanks for tuning in. Well, the House is debating that measure right now. And in just a moment, we’ll be joined by Texas Congressman Randy Weber from the House floor to get the latest on the debate. And if the United Nations is for it, can it be good?
SPEAKER 10 :
We welcome the agreement signed by the leadership of the caretaker authorities in Syria and the Syrian Democratic Forces. Our special envoy for Syria, Ger Pedersen, hopes that an agreement can support and feed into a broader, credible and inclusive political transition process in line with the key principles of Security Council resolution 2254 that leads to a new constitution and free and fair elections.
SPEAKER 08 :
That was Stefan Jurek, spokesperson for the UN Secretary General earlier today. CBN’s Middle East Bureau Chief Chris Mitchell will join us live from Israel with the latest on the reports that the Kurdish-led and US-backed Syrian Democratic Forces have entered into an agreement to participate with this new insurgent-led Syrian government that toppled Bashar al-Assad in December. And the Trump administration taking steps to remove pro-Hamas students from college campuses that are here on student visas.
SPEAKER 01 :
Columbia University has been given the names of other individuals who have engaged in pro-Hamas activity, and they are refusing to help DHS identify those individuals on campus. And as the president said very strongly in his statement yesterday, he is not going to tolerate that. And we expect all America’s colleges and universities to comply with this administration’s policy.
SPEAKER 08 :
That was White House Press Secretary Caroline Leavitt earlier today. We’re going to talk about it later here on this Tuesday edition of Washington Watch. Also, FRC’s Dr. Jennifer Bowens will join me to discuss the Supreme Court decision to take a case out of Colorado, a case regarding a law that bans counseling for minors dealing with gender confusion issues. All that and more coming up on this edition of Washington Watch. Also, the fourth episode of our God and Government series is out this week. Is America a Christian nation? What does history reveal? And how did the Bible shape our founding? Find out by watching exclusively on the Stand Firm app. Don’t have the app? Well, text COURSE to 67742 to access the God and Government course. The House of Representatives is teed up for a vote on a continuing resolution to fund the federal government through the end of September. Earlier today, House Speaker Mike Johnson told reporters that House Republicans have the votes. Still, the question of its success hangs in the air. Will the chamber be able to advance it to the Senate and avoid a March 14th funding deadline shutdown? Joining me now with the details of what’s happening on the House floor, Congressman Randy Weber, a member of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce, as well as the Committee on Space Science and Technology, represents the 14th Congressional District of Texas. Congressman Randy Weber, thanks for joining us.
SPEAKER 17 :
Hey, thanks, Tony. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER 08 :
All right, so what is the latest as we’re listening and watching the debate on the CR on the House floor?
SPEAKER 17 :
Well, we’re watching them drag this out, Tony. It’s unbelievable how bad the Democrats hate this. I mean, they have just pulled out all the stops. Anytime you talk about cutting waste, spending, and abuse, you would think that for Americans, politicians, or anywhere they were, waste, fraud, and abuse is a bad thing. But apparently, it’s only the Democrats who want to keep the status quo.
SPEAKER 08 :
This bill, as we discussed yesterday, overall about a $7 billion cut in the spending. I mean, that’s obviously a step in the right direction, but doesn’t go as far as many want to go. But getting the continuing resolution forward allows the focus on the reconciliation process, which is where we will see, I think, the significant policy changes as well as some of the more significant cuts. Correct? Correct.
SPEAKER 17 :
That is correct, Tony. And let us not forget, too, that this is part of President Trump’s agenda. And so the crazy Democrats, just because it’s his agenda, I think that drives them nuts to where they don’t want anything to do. They want to call—and you’ve seen this in the news releases and stuff. They want to call him names. They want to cuff. They want to complain. They want to make all kinds of accusations like we’re cutting welfare, we’re cutting Social Security, we’re cutting all this stuff. And none of that is true. You’re right. You know, it’s a step in the right direction. Yes, when reconciliation gets here, it’ll actually be bigger. I can’t wait to hear them over reconciliation because it’ll be a lot bigger.
SPEAKER 08 :
It’s interesting that I thought the Democratic Party was against government shutdowns, but it looks like they’re lining up in opposition to this, especially if the Senate takes their cue from House Democrats. They could force a government shutdown.
SPEAKER 17 :
Yeah, they have always been able to blame it on Republicans in the 12 years that I’ve been here. And now it looks like they’re going to grab this bull by the horns and do it with Lee. So we’ll see. We’ll see if there might be some cooler heads prevail over in the Senate because this has been a long time coming, Tony. I know you know that. I know your listeners, your watchers, your viewers know that too. This has been a long time coming, and yet the Democrats cannot stand the idea of actually – stopping the wasteful spending, and actually giving the taxpayers a break. That’s just against the Democrats’ motive. That is, it’s against their mindset.
SPEAKER 08 :
So let’s talk a little bit about that, the decreasing of fraud in the government. Give us some details on what is in particular in this CR that would do that, that has the Democrats up in arms.
SPEAKER 17 :
Well, look, you’re talking about grants. A lot of these grants that have been given to these government agencies Go through these non-profits, if you will, NGOs, non-profit organizations. They hand out portions of their grants to organizations below them that aren’t even qualified to take these grants. They don’t use them for the intent that they were provided for by Congress or supposed to be used for. We see that across a whole variety of ways, a whole myriad of spots. And the Democrats don’t care. And quite frankly, you know, we saw this under President Joe Biden. You know, I call him Joe Biden because I think he’s Obama’s third term. They shuffled money, shoveled money out the door his last few weeks as quickly as they could. And we’re still trying to call some of that back, and the Democrats hate that.
SPEAKER 08 :
So this is just a step toward a baby step, if you will, toward good government. And they’re opposed to it. As you said, what are they going to do when we get to reconciliation and real government reform?
SPEAKER 17 :
I mean, they’re going to lose their collective mind. It’s just that sad. And I will say this kind of tongue in cheek, Tony. Hillary Clinton called us a bunch of deplorables when she ran against Trump in 2016. I don’t know if you remember that.
SPEAKER 08 :
Oh, I remember very well. It was after President Trump spoke at our value voter summit that she made that comment.
SPEAKER 17 :
He called us a bunch of deplorables. Well, guess what? The Democrats and Hillary Clinton found out last November 5th there’s a lot more, quote-unquote, deplorables in the country than they knew about. People are tired of the reckless spending, the out-of-control spending. They voted for a change November 5th, and the sooner the Democrats get that through their thick skulls, the better.
SPEAKER 08 :
Now, I know you’re going to have to go in just a moment to vote because time has expired on the debate on this bill. Do you anticipate any Democrats in the House voting for this?
SPEAKER 17 :
You know, that’s a good question. We were talking about that this morning. We hear maybe two or three. I didn’t get their names. There might be a handful. I’m not holding my breath because, sadly, it seems like they all circled the wagon. They did it behind Pelosi. I guess they’ll do it for the main part against Hakeem Jeffries. The one thing that gives me some encouragement is that there were several of them that voted to censor Al Green when he tried to shout down the president. So maybe there’s some decency there that might shine through.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, I think they have to constantly remember that there are several of them that Donald Trump carried their districts. And so they’re going to have to face voters. And not too long, about a year, some of them in the primaries will be facing voters once again. Before you have to run, Congressman Randy Weber, I want to ask you an announcement today coming out of Saudi Arabia. that a 30-day ceasefire has been agreed to, at least on the part of Ukraine. The United States now taking that deal to Russia to see if Russia will accept that, which could allow for discussions on a longer-term peace agreement. Your response to that?
SPEAKER 17 :
Well, look, that’s a good step forward, although you’re hearing the Democrats taking that. They never miss an opportunity to ding President Trump, because now they’re saying that Trump cares more about Russia than he does Ukraine. And look, I think he made it clear he wants peace in the region. This had been going on too long when Zelensky came and he wanted more and more and more money to keep the war going. I think President Trump had a good suggestion. Of course, as you know, Zelensky wasn’t very happy about it. And so I think this is something that’s a step in the right direction. Let’s get on talking. Let’s get together on it. There’s a new sheriff in town. People in the world are now once again beginning to respect America. And I think Trump’s on the right path here with doing it.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, I think we’re seeing kind of negotiations play out here, as you said, as you made reference to the the Oval Office meeting that did not quite did not go quite so well. But they’re back talking again. And this time, the United States having these conversations with Ukrainian officials, they’re now going to take the deal to Russia. And this, by the way, the I think this restarts the the support and aid to Ukraine that the Trump administration had cut off. So who knows, maybe this may lead to a positive outcome.
SPEAKER 17 :
That’s right. Stay tuned.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah. All right, Congressman Randy Weber, always great to talk with you. Thanks so much for joining us today.
SPEAKER 17 :
Thanks for having me on, Tony. Y’all take care.
SPEAKER 08 :
All right. So the House vote will be coming up here within probably before the program is over. They’re in a series of votes now. That’s what the just for your information, when Congress is in generally Tuesday through Thursday of primary days. They’re voting during the hour that Washington Watch is on, so oftentimes that’s why we have to have members joining us by phone from the House floor as they move forward with usually a series of votes. They’ll have debate, and then after debate they’ll move to voting on the different measures, and they’ll have a a period of usually around 10 to 15 minutes, 15 minutes to vote on the measures. So they’re voting on a Pandemic Unemployment Fraud Enforcement Act right now, and then later they’ll be getting to vote on the continuing resolution for government funding. So we’ll let you know if that happens within the Washington Watch Hour. But next we’re going to be joined by Chris Mitchell. He’s going to be joining us from Israel. to discuss news coming out of Syria. We discussed this yesterday about the massacre of Alawites and Christians. Now, as I mentioned yesterday, those reports were a bit muddled, kind of hard to get information out of there. And how widespread, we don’t quite know. It appears that this was targeted toward the Alawites, which were aligned with the former Bashir al-Assad regime, but many Christians were swept up into this and were killed as well. We’re going to talk about this with Chris Mitchell when we come back from the break, because an agreement between the Kurdish forces in northeast Syria and this insurgent-led government, very odd. We’re going to see if we can get the details from Chris Mitchell when we come back. So don’t go anywhere. More Washington Watch straight ahead after the break. Let me encourage you, if you’ve not yet gotten the Stand Firm app, well, you’ve got time during the break to get the Stand Firm app, and that way you can get the fourth edition of the God and Government course that was released this week. Is America a Christian nation? What role did the Bible have in the founding of our nation? You’ll find that out in this week’s edition. Don’t go away. We’re back after this.
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During these challenging times for our nation, Family Research Council continues to serve as a watchman on the wall for faith, family, and freedom. And together, thanks to your support, we’re making an eternal impact. 2024 was a year of shining the light for biblical truth in Washington, DC. Last fall, over 1,000 spiritually active, governance-engaged conservatives gathered for the Pray, Vote, Stand Summit to pray for our nation and ensure that the issues impacting sage cons were understood and advanced. Washington Watch with Tony Perkins marked a major milestone this year, its 900th episode, and added the Washington Watch News Desk, a new production that presents the top news each day from a biblical worldview. The Washington Stand published 2,000 articles of news, commentary, and podcasts in 2024, garnering over 5 million views. FRC’s outlet for news and commentary continues to pursue the truth on the issues that matter most to you and your family. And with the launch of the Stand Firm app, you can listen to, watch, and read our content in one simple place. Pray for current issues, stay rooted in the scriptures, and engage the political sphere with the community of believers on our new platform. In 2024, FRC shaped public policy and culture, organizing the National Gathering for Prayer and Repentance where members of Congress and Christian leaders came together to seek God’s intervention in America. In May, FRC called upon believers to pray for and stand with Israel by dedicating a portion of their worship services to pray for Israel’s peace, prosperity, and protection. With Pray, Vote, Stand Decision 2024, FRC and Real Life Network led a powerful evening of election night coverage to analyze the election results and pray that our nation would turn back to God. We also filmed a transformative educational course, God and Government. Available now on the Stand Firm app, this series will explore the biblical and historical foundations of our government, empowering you to stand confidently in your role as a citizen of heaven and earth. Family Research Council thanks you for partnering with us in standing for faith, family, and freedom.
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SPEAKER 08 :
Welcome back to Washington Watch. Good to have you with us on this Tuesday. All right. Well, yesterday, Syria’s interim government announced a landmark agreement with the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces. The deal attempts to establish cooperation between the two groups with Syria’s interim president, Abu Mohammed al-Jalani, describing it as a, quote, real opportunity to build a new Syria. But it comes in the wake of the deadliest violence in the country since the fall of the Assad regime late last year. Will this deal be a good one or a bad one for Christians and other religious minorities who have been targeted by Islamists? Chris Mitchell, Middle East Bureau Chief at CBN News in Jerusalem, joins me to discuss. Chris, welcome back to Washington Watch. Thanks again for staying up late there in Jerusalem.
SPEAKER 09 :
Great to be with you again, Tony. Actually, I just arrived a few hours ago from the States, so I’m up anyway.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, good. I appreciated the use of your studio last week when I was in Jerusalem. I know you were back here in the States. So let’s focus first on this deal. What are some of the specific details that we know about as of right now?
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, we know there’s going to be some cooperation between the Syrian regime, the new one with al-Jilani, and the Syrian Democratic Forces. You know, Tony, this has been really a bright spot in the whole Middle East, this area of northeast Syria. You’ve been there, I know, and I have. It’s really a democratic form of government, a bright spot there in the region. When I first heard about this news, Tony, I was a bit upset and concerned because that maybe this area, this autonomous area, was giving up too much of its autonomy to the new regime of al-Jilani. I did just get off the phone with our friend Nadine Maenza, and she says it’s really a better deal, a good deal in the long run, and it really doesn’t give up many of the concerns that some people had about too much autonomy relinquished to the al-Jilani. Another big point, Tony, is the fact that over time, the U.S. and this autonomous government in northeast Syria has been able to capture and imprison tens of thousands of ISIS fighters. And the concern has been maybe under this new agreement, they would be let loose. It appears not. But we’ll see what happens. This great concern here in Israel, you know, Tony, about this new regime, and that’s why Israel is actually hitting military targets inside Syria on an ongoing basis to make sure the new regime doesn’t have the kind of military prowess that it could use against Israel or others in the neighborhood.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, this was a conversation I had last week with the prime minister. He brought up how Christians were being targeted there in Syria and expressed concern about this new Islamic regime. I don’t see how you can live at peace with an Islamic regime. I know they’re trying to put a new phase on this. I understand in some conversations I’ve had with others today trying to figure this thing out. It’s a little bit complicated when you look at all the different parties. But the targeting of the Alawites and the sweeping up of some Christians in those massacres, as they’ve been described, that took place over the weekend apparently put pressure on this insurgent-led government to come to some type of agreement.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, and that’s the other side of it, Tony, that it does – you wonder what’s going to happen when the al-Jilani government really allowed the slaughter of perhaps over 10,000 Alawites, and many Christians got caught up in this, and something that we’re really not hearing, you would think, the outcry from the world based on what we’re seeing in these horrific videos of people – literally being slaughtered en masse. In terms of northeast Syria, that’s one place where a lot of Christians have been protected. In fact, they’re part of the government, they’re in representative government. In fact, this government requires about 40% of the representation to be women. So it really is a really bright spot. And what happens to this regime, this agreement with the regime, It remains to be seen. It will be implemented by the end of 2025, but we’ll see what happens as it goes on. And another thing, Tony, to remember is the pressure of Turkey. Turkey has been attacking the northeast Syrian autonomous government. killing hundreds and displacing hundreds of thousands there over the last number of years. And I think Turkey is part of this equation as well, perhaps with the SDF trying to make sure that they can make peace with the al-Jilani regime.
SPEAKER 08 :
I mean, Chris, you know this area well. My concern would be this is kind of causing them to maybe think everything is at peace because Turkey is also supporting al-Jilani and the HTS. If the Syrian Democratic Forces in the Northeast area up there feel like this will get Turkey off their back, I mean, could this not be kind of lulling them into a sense of security when it’s not really there?
SPEAKER 09 :
That’s very possible, Tony, because the Turkish government really was backing al-Jilani when he was known as HTS, that Islamist government. And also, going forward, you understand that much of the cabinet right now of this al-Jilani regime is Turkish. And so it does make the question, I wonder what will happen in months or years lulling them into a false sense of security. Right now, some people think this is a good deal, as I said, but we’ll see a very, very leery of Turkish plans and goals going forward, as well as al-Jilani. But it’s certainly a matter to be praying for this particular area.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah. Final question for you, Chris. We just got about 45 seconds left. But I also understand that the Syrian Democratic Forces are our friends in the northeast corner. Realize America is pulling out its troops, pulled out most. There’s a few left that they felt like they had to have a deal for some form of protection going forward.
SPEAKER 09 :
You know, over the years, Tony, one of the feelings I’ve had is that it would be so good just to have a presence, a U.S. presence there in northeast Syria to be a protection to these people. And that’s one area where I felt here in the Middle East, it would be good to have a U.S. presence and plant the U.S. flag just as a bulwark against any plans by al-Jalani or Turkey itself.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, because as you’ve pointed out, it is such a great, almost organic representation of religious freedom and political discourse. It’s just amazing to see what has happened up there in that northeast corner. It’s something that should be really fostered as an example of what could happen in the Middle East. Chris Mitchell, again, thanks for staying up late. Great to see you and always appreciate your insights. Thanks, Tony. It is a matter to pray about. I mean, it’s a complex situation, but it’s really vital in the Middle East. All right, don’t go away. We’re back after this.
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Oh, beautiful for spacious skies, for amber waves of grain.
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At the 2025 National Gathering for Prayer and Repentance, hundreds gathered with Christian and government leaders at the Museum of the Bible in Washington, D.C., to pray for the nation and ask God to forgive us of our sins.
SPEAKER 08 :
We gather here not to appeal to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. We are appealing to heaven. Today we make our appeal not in the authority of a political party or in the name of a denomination. We come in the name and the authority of Jesus Christ. who has been given all authority in heaven and on earth, and we have been commissioned to operate in that authority.
SPEAKER 16 :
Father, we pray in Jesus’ name for our complacency, our greed, our pride, our gluttony, our sloth, and tolerance of sin.
SPEAKER 02 :
Lord, your word is the food that can make America healthy again. May your word be exalted and believed in our nation again.
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Lord, we ask that you allow us to become that shining city on the hill once more for your love, your grace, and your mercy.
SPEAKER 11 :
Thank you for your love and your grace and your mercy, for the opportunity that you have provided us to heal our land. We ask you to do it, Lord. We ask you for the wisdom, discernment, and stamina to do the thing that you have called each one of us, all of us here, to do. May we be found faithful. We trust it, pray it, believe it all in Jesus’ name. Amen.
SPEAKER 08 :
This is Washington Watch. I’m Tony Perkins. Thanks for tuning in. Anti-Israeli demonstrators, pro-Hamas demonstrators, have been protesting in New York City and calling for students, faculty, and staff across the U.S. to demonstrate on their school campuses as well. following the arrest of Mumad Ali, a graduate student at Columbia University who played a major part in the pro-Hamas protest at his school. Now, at the same time, the U.S. Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights has issued a warning to 60 universities to protect Jewish students on their campuses, something that they’re being investigated for failing to do. Now with President Trump back in the White House, How might this unfold? They’re using not just the bully pulpit, but they’re using the long arm of the federal government and funding to get the message across. Here to discuss this, Meg Kilgannon, the Senior Fellow for Education Studies at Family Research Council. She previously served at the Department of Education during the first Trump administration. Meg, welcome back to Washington Watch.
SPEAKER 04 :
Good to see you.
SPEAKER 08 :
All right, let’s start with this letter. Can you tell us why these 60 universities were recipients of this, well, I wouldn’t call it a love letter, but they got a letter.
SPEAKER 04 :
They got a letter saying that they are out of line with Title VI of the Civil Rights Code and that they need to do a better job of protecting Jewish students on campus.
SPEAKER 08 :
Any way you look at that, that’s true.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes, yes.
SPEAKER 08 :
They allowed these protests to intimidate, and they basically told the Jewish students, look, you need to just stay home.
SPEAKER 04 :
And let’s keep in mind that there were encampments on these campuses. For days. For days. For days. And this was following a time that we can both remember when if you were a conservative organization on campus or a young Republicans club on campus, you couldn’t host a speaker on campus. They were run off campus. Because of security concerns. Right. So they will tolerate some speech but not others.
SPEAKER 08 :
This really starts at the top. When you look at the president in the previous administration that fostered that environment, and now you look at what this administration is doing, they’re saying we’re not going to tolerate it.
SPEAKER 04 :
Right.
SPEAKER 08 :
Leadership matters.
SPEAKER 04 :
And Columbia University has lost $400 million in grant money because the American taxpayer is not obligated to send… send their hard-earned money to elite universities who are going to violate the civil rights of students, particularly Jewish students. That’s not something that we’re obligated to do.
SPEAKER 08 :
You know, when you look at these secular universities and the large amounts of money that they’re sitting on, and then you look at how much money they’re getting in grants from the federal government and from states, you know, I know my home state of Louisiana provides a lot of money to LSU and some of the other universities. You know, if they want the money, They need to straighten up and fly right.
SPEAKER 04 :
They need to follow the rules. They need to have a campus that’s not a hostile environment for students of any faith. And that’s not true, of course, right now for Jewish students.
SPEAKER 08 :
So what reaction, I should say, are we seeing from these universities based upon the letter and the actions of withholding these federal grants?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, there is, of course, going to be grumbling, outright complaints. I watched the confirmation hearing of Dr. Petitaria, who’s been a guest on this program, frequently talking about, especially during the COVID days. And one of the questions that he got continuously from senators was about grant making from NIH and
SPEAKER 08 :
uh through to their university systems in their states so it shows you what what a powerful lobbying arm the higher educational institutions are well and they get money from so many different federal agencies they do i mean when we saw um the department of agriculture in a in and i guess it was maine where the governor there refused to uh protect girls sports. And so the president said, all right, well, we’ll see how you like this. So the agriculture grants, I mean, there’s grants from like every agency that goes to these universities.
SPEAKER 04 :
And of course, we value learning. We want scientific discovery. We value knowledge, right? American taxpayers want to support that. We want to have innovation and to encourage things. But we don’t want to have that generosity rubbed in our face.
SPEAKER 08 :
But they leverage that. They leverage that. When your university is able to do certain research and study, you’re able to promote that in your recruiting. You’re able to promote that in your fundraising. And so you’re leveraging those federal dollars to get more money and to attract people to your campus. So there ought to be a standard. They ought to be held to a standard of conduct that is in keeping with the American public funding.
SPEAKER 04 :
Absolutely. And that so often is ignored. So I’m very grateful to see the Trump administration paying such particular attention to this. Very grateful to Linda McMahon for sending these letters. She’s so far been a great Secretary of Education. The Office for Civil Rights there is on top of the Title VI enforcements, and they are trying to clear backlogs because there were many, many, many. There are 60 letters that went out today, but there are hundreds of college campuses that had an issue with this in the last few years that need to have their investigations cleared. And so they’ve made it clear that they’re going to make clearing those investigations a priority as well.
SPEAKER 08 :
By the way, voting now on the continuing resolution. The Democrats made a motion to recommit, which is kind of a procedural motion to try to stop it. But it looks like the votes are there. Meg, we’ve got 45 seconds left. Will the Department of Education close down?
SPEAKER 04 :
It will tomorrow, but only for one day.
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay, that’s because apparently some threats or something.
SPEAKER 04 :
Something’s going on.
SPEAKER 08 :
Some university’s not too happy, some pro-Hamas demonstrators maybe?
SPEAKER 04 :
Something like that.
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay. All right, Meg Kilgannon, always great to see you. Appreciate your insights.
SPEAKER 04 :
Thanks. It’s great to be here.
SPEAKER 08 :
All right. All right, 60 universities got a letter. We’ll see the follow-up to those letters, see if they write back. All right, don’t go anywhere. When we return, FRC’s Dr. Jennifer Bowens joins me to talk about the Supreme Court taking up a pretty significant case out of Colorado. We touched on it yesterday with Dr. Al Mohler, but we’re going to dive a little bit deeper into this case that looks at a law that prohibits counseling for minors with gender dysphoria. Don’t go away.
SPEAKER 18 :
What is God’s role in government? What does the separation of church and state really mean? And how does morality shape a nation? President John Adams said our Constitution was made only for moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. Join Family Research Council for God and Government, a powerful 13-part series that equips you with biblical truth to engage in today’s most pressing debates. From the Ten Commandments in Classrooms to the Immigration Crisis of America, we’ll uncover the foundations of our nation’s history and why it’s relevant for today. Defend God’s plan for government because faith and freedom were never meant to be separate. New episodes available each Monday. To view the series on the Stand Firm app, text COURSE to 67742.
SPEAKER 14 :
The world is hurting. Streets are filled with crime. Families are broken. Sin is celebrated and God is mocked. Everywhere we look, the wages of our sin are on full display. As Christians, we know that surrender to God’s will is the solution to our biggest problems, but not everyone agrees. Even in church, we hear people say the most important thing is to be tolerant, that we shouldn’t impose a morality on other people, and that loving our neighbor means celebrating what they do. But you can’t do that. It’s not that you don’t love your neighbor. You do. But you care about God’s opinion more than your neighbor’s opinion, and this makes you different. In fact, sometimes it makes you feel alone, like you’re the only one. But there is good news. You are not alone, not even close. Research has found that there are 59 million American adults who are a lot like you. There are millions of people around the country who are born again, deeply committed to practicing their faith, and believe the Bible is the reliable Word of God. But that’s not all. They’re also engaged in our government. They’re voters. They’re more likely to be involved in their community, and they’re making a difference in elections. The problem is that a lot of them feel alone, too. We want to change that. FRC wants to connect these 59 million Americans to speak the truth together, no matter the cost. If you want to learn more about this group and what it means to be a spiritually active, governance-engaged conservative, or if you want to find out if you are one of these sage cons yourself, go to frc.org slash sagecon and take the quiz to find out. The world is hurting and we have the solution. We can’t do it alone, but we can do it if we work together. That’s what we’re working toward every day. Join us. Go to FRC.org slash S-A-G-E-C-O-N SageCon to learn more. That’s S-A-G-E-C-O-N SageCon to learn more.
SPEAKER 08 :
Welcome back to Washington Watch. Thanks for joining us on this Tuesday. Remember, we have the God and Government series. We just launched the latest episode. You can find it on the Stand Firm app or text the word COURSE to 67742 and I’ll send you a link. Today’s word comes from Jeremiah 49, where God judges Edom. Verse 16, the horror you inspire has deceived you and the pride of your heart. Though you make your nest as high as the eagles, I will bring you down from there, declares the Lord. Edom shall become a horror and will hiss because of its disasters. And when Sodom, as when Sodom was overthrown, no man shall dwell there. You know, their might became their downfall. Petra, carved into the rock, could not withstand God’s judgment as he rocked their world. Just as Jeremiah foretold, that grand city now lies empty. This warns us that no fortress stands when pride replaces trust in God. Let us remember that the Creator can humble even the mightiest. May we rely on God’s strength instead of our own, for true security is found only in Him. As we reflect on Edom’s fate, let us examine our own hearts, forsaking arrogance and standing firm in humility, so we remain under God’s protection and His guidance. To join us in our journey through the Bible, text BIBLE to 67742. Well, yesterday, the U.S. Supreme Court, as I mentioned in the program, agreed to hear a case involving a Colorado law that prohibits licensed counselors from having conversations with minors that, quote, attempt or purport to change an individual’s sexual orientation or gender identity, end quote. The legacy media likes to call it conversion therapy for so-called LGBTQ plus children. But it’s really a ban on any conversation that doesn’t align with the left’s radical gender ideology. So will the Supreme Court see through the left’s efforts to silence and villainize counselors who are simply trying to help young people navigate through gender dysphoria? Well, joining me now to discuss this and more, Dr. Jennifer Bowens, the director of the Center of Family Studies here at the Family Research Council. Dr. Bowens has worked extensively as a researcher and a clinician, providing trauma-focused treatment to children in foster care and behavioral health settings. Also, adults who have experienced interpersonal traumas. Dr. Bowens, thank you for joining us. Always great to see you here in studio.
SPEAKER 05 :
Thanks for having me, Tony.
SPEAKER 08 :
All right, so let’s… Let’s unpack this. So the court actually has two different cases that are somewhat related. I want to talk about this one first. This law has been criticized as being one-sided. For example, it reportedly allows counselors conversations that aim to steer young people toward a gender identity different than their biological reality. But it prohibits conversations that help them try to bring alignment to their mind and body.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, that’s right. So what this case is addressing is the one direction of free speech. Right. So as long as you’re offering gender affirming or some kind of affirming conversation to a gender identity, a false identity, then it’s OK. But if you are a counselor who believes that sex is binary and you can’t change it, it’s immutable, and you are looking, you have a worldview that’s going to bring you to a place of, let me find out what’s really going on with this person. And you’re not trying to convert someone, but you’re trying to understand what’s really going on. Then that speech is prohibited according to the Colorado law.
SPEAKER 08 :
And we’re talking about having conversations.
SPEAKER 05 :
We’re talking about conversations. And just to be clear, so when we talk about conversion therapy. That sounds pretty intense. It sounds very intense. But it’s not. We call it counseling bans. So we’re saying you’re prohibiting me from acting in my professional field. But conversion therapy, they try to say, well, you know, you’re shocking people. You’re doing all these horrific things.
SPEAKER 08 :
Shocking in terms of electrodes and laboratory and, you know.
SPEAKER 05 :
Things that we already have laws against.
SPEAKER 08 :
So that doesn’t happen. That’s not what we’re talking about.
SPEAKER 05 :
That’s not what we’re talking about. We are talking about me saying to my client, you know, is there anything else going on in your life that are like Walt would say? I love Walt’s statement. What caused you to stop liking who you are? And that’s pretty blunt. I mean, most counselors wouldn’t go that blunt. But that’s, in essence, the heart of this question is what’s going on with you that you’re deciding to shed your God-given identity?
SPEAKER 08 :
So is it safe to say the media has been deceptive in the way it’s covered this topic?
SPEAKER 05 :
I know it’s shocking, but I would say so.
SPEAKER 08 :
So let’s talk about these bans for just a moment, because I believe the first one may have originated in California, but we’re now talking about, I think, 25 states across the nation prohibit licensed counselors who have been trained to find out what’s kind of going on in someone’s life to help them bring this alignment, as I said earlier, Right. And they’re prohibited if it’s in this one category of gender identity.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah. And if you look at intervention research, which I used to teach intervention research to master students, you’re always you have you have the variable that you’re trying to change. Right. And in this case, you’re trying to change the distress that a person is experiencing over their gender. So, you know, we’re trying to reduce that. That’s the goal. And what these activists and these laws are saying is you’re not allowed to do that any other way than what we say is allowed.
SPEAKER 08 :
OK, so that leads us to actually another Supreme Court case coming out of the state of Tennessee, which the court heard a month or so ago. And that is. a policy that actually FRC helped originate, the SAFE Act, which prohibits experimental drugs and irreversible surgeries for minors as a result of gender dysphoria.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes, and we should be backing away from gender-affirming care. We should be protecting children. And there’s the Scermetti case, and the Supreme Court is what is also going to be heard. And these are such important rulings that will affect minors across the whole country.
SPEAKER 08 :
So help me wrap my mind around this, because about, well, 26 states have these safe act-type laws that prohibit again experimental drugs and the reason we call them experimental is because they were not designed for the application that they’re being used for that’s right and then we have surgeries that are irreversible you start cutting off body parts you can’t put them back no so help me understand this we have half the states that have banned counseling to help bring about this um again alignment of of one’s God-given biological reality with what’s happening up here. So the states are saying, no, you can’t do that, but you can cut off body parts. I mean, it’s really a division in this country. I was talking about this yesterday with Al Mohler. It really shows the contrast, the worldview that cuts down the middle of our country.
SPEAKER 05 :
Right. And if the goal of these treatments is, again, to reduce distress, then, you know, you have to look at the science that’s behind these procedures. And, I mean, if you’re looking at the science alone, you’re going to side with – And the Scrimetti case, you’re going to say Tennessee has a right to protect its youth, along with other states that have invoked these. And you’re going to say counselors have a right to investigate what are the real causes, because the science is there to say that these procedures are not helping kids’ mental health. It’s actually harming. When we look at suicide rates, it’s actually harming. So, you know, when you think about it, Tony, when we’re talking about free speech and, you know, the that it’s only in one direction. Well, think about, you know, I’m no lawyer, but if you if you look at, you know, if you can’t be in a crowded theater and yell fire because of the harm that could come to people. What about, just proposing, what about people who claim things about science and claim things that, for example, you know, you say that your kids, it’s better to have a live son than a dead daughter. Your child’s going to commit suicide.
SPEAKER 08 :
We make them professors.
SPEAKER 05 :
We do, we do. We make them professors and we give them tenure.
SPEAKER 08 :
So let me just… dispassionately, I know that’s difficult, at least for me, to look at this issue, but as a professional counselor, now I’m not a licensed counselor, I did pastoral counseling, but as a counselor, professional licensed counselor, Is it not your goal to take the least invasive approach to resolve an issue? And it kind of escalates as if this doesn’t work, then we’ll go another level. If that doesn’t work, we go another level. Rather than jump into cutting off body parts first,
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, and again, if 85% of minors desist, in other words, they back away from that gender identity, if they’re left alone, that is just leaving them alone. And if that’s the case, that’s what a number of studies— 85% is about the average—
SPEAKER 08 :
So let me just so our listeners and viewers understand it. So a young person going through the developmental stages. And of course, there’s a lot of social contagion out there that’s driving these high numbers. So they have this gender dysphoria. They’re not sure that they’re male or female. They think they’re in the wrong body. If you just leave them alone, if you just leave them alone, 85 percent of them are going to get a course correction and they’re going to come out on the other side of this.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes. And that’s, you know, that’s better than many psychological interventions, that that rate of success is better than many psychological interventions.
SPEAKER 08 :
So let me say that. Let me ask you this. So 85 percent of just leave them alone.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 08 :
So what if you allow them to have some level of. counseling where they can just talk through these issues and try to find out maybe there was some trauma in their past. Maybe they’ve been abused. Maybe they’re trying. This is a defense, a self-defense posture that they’re taking. Does that not increase that percentage of those who are going to come out on the other side?
SPEAKER 05 :
Most likely that would be the case. You know, I don’t know about the research on that, but it certainly is intuitive and makes sense that that would be the case because clearly something’s going on with these kids, especially nowadays with the The population that is identifying where it used to be young boys, now it’s young women and past puberty. So there’s other things going on than what it used to be. And a curious counselor should be investigating, a curious researcher or academic should be asking questions just from the sociological phenomenon of it. You should be looking at this going, what is going on in the Western world where this is a switch in populations who are experiencing this? That’s a great dissertation right there.
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay, so let’s look at these. We’ve got just about four minutes left here, Dr. Bowen. So two, I would say, two court cases that are diametrically opposed.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes, in some ways. And yet they’re also very related in that, you know, they’re all getting at the psychological care of minors. And one is saying, you know, you have to affirm. And the other is saying the practices that you’re using to affirm are causing damage.
SPEAKER 08 :
I don’t see how the court could strike down the Tennessee law. which, the Scrimetti case, which says a state has a right to protect children from these experimental drugs and these irreversible surgeries. I don’t see how they could strike that down and at the same time uphold a Colorado, California ban that says you can’t have any kind of therapy to bring about proper alignment.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah. How do you do that? I’m not really sure. They’re very inconsistent, but we’re in a world that’s very inconsistent at the moment.
SPEAKER 08 :
So I would definitely say this is something to pray about.
SPEAKER 05 :
It’s absolutely something to pray about.
SPEAKER 08 :
I mean, this is a big deal because the Trump administration, by executive order, has prohibited, you know, within its realm of authority, this gender reassignment surgeries. And so that’s currently, that’s been, it’s actually, I think, about six days ago out of Maryland, they’re still upholding that. ban on that executive order. But this is quite significant going forward as to what will be the policy of our nation. Can we help kids by working through these issues? Or are we going to just allow them to start cutting off body parts and masquerading as a person of the opposite gender?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, and I think all of this is getting to a bigger issue. I wrote a piece about this in Washington Times around the first of the year, and basically talking about the systemic issues that we have in the counseling profession. and that if those are not addressed, then we will continue to see more practices like this, more problems, because I’ll just give you one example. My code of ethics, one point says that, and this changed in 2008, by the way, that you will not discriminate against those who have a different sexual orientation or gender identity. So that ethical code changed for many of us who had already been practicing to say that, you know, we’re violating our ethical code if we are basically not affirming. And so you have a whole profession who’s organized around these codes. It’s in a sense already, you know.
SPEAKER 08 :
And those codes have been politically driven by agitators and outside interest.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes. Yes. But you have whole professions that have been constructed around these codes.
SPEAKER 08 :
It’s not just the counseling field. It’s the medical field. Yeah. So this is a I mean, we’re at a pivotal moment as a society on whether or not we’re going to go forward based upon truth or based upon a lie that deceives and ultimately destroys. Dr. Bowen, it’s always great to see you. Thanks so much for joining us.
SPEAKER 05 :
Hey, good to be with you, Tony.
SPEAKER 08 :
And folks, I would encourage you to make these issues matters of prayer. I mean, our court is dealing with some really significant issues that will shape the future of our country and the lives of our children. And, you know, we’ve prayed, we’ve worked for good lawmakers that shape policies, ones that are adopted. We need to pray and uphold them and make sure the court gets it right. All right, out of time for today. Again, thanks for joining us. Until next time, I leave you once again with the encouraging words of the Apostle Paul found in Ephesians 6, where he says, you’ve done everything that you can do when you’ve prayed, when you’ve prepared, and when you’ve taken your stand.
SPEAKER 15 :
By all means, keep standing. Washington Watch with Tony Perkins is brought to you by Family Research Council and is entirely listener supported. Portions of the show discussing candidates are brought to you by Family Research Council Action. For more information on anything you heard today, or to find out how you can partner with us in our ongoing efforts to promote faith, family, and freedom, visit TonyPerkins.com.
