Music and faith collide in powerful ways as Dr. Dobson welcomes Johnny Erickson Tada and Robert and Bobbie Wolgamuth to discuss their book ‘O Worship the King’. Listen to inspiring stories of loss, resilience, and spiritual renewal that showcase why hymns have the potential to transform lives. This episode promises heartfelt examples of the healing power of music and touches on how these timeless pieces have been the cornerstone for countless believers throughout history.
Well, hello everyone. I’m James Dobson and you’re listening to Family Talk, a listener-supported ministry. In fact, thank you so much for being part of that support for James Dobson Family Institute.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, welcome to Family Talk, the broadcast ministry of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute. I’m Roger Marsh, and on today’s program, we’re going to hear the second installment of Dr. Dobson’s classic program featuring conversation, music, and song with Johnny Erickson Tata and Robert and Bobby Wolgamuth. Here’s an excerpt from our last program when Bobby shared how Martin Luther believed that hymns could transform people’s understanding of God and His Word.
SPEAKER 04 :
The world was changed because Martin Luther believed that next to the Word of God, a hymn and theology in music was the way to totally change the mind of the people and get them to focus on truly who God is and to have biblical knowledge inside of their life in such a passionate way. In fact, he often would say that the devil would flee before the sound of praise. And his whole thing was getting the people to praise God and then giving them something to hang on to. Remember that these people were being burned at the stake if they read the Bible in their own German tongue. And often they said the people that were taken to the stake, they had a hymn on their lips as they were dying.
SPEAKER 03 :
Indeed. And today, Dr. Dobson and his guests will continue their discussion around the book that was co-written with Pastor John MacArthur, along with Johnny Erickson Tata and Robert and Bobby Wolgamuth, called O Worship the King, Hymns of Assurance and Praise to Encourage Your Heart. Now, Johnny Erickson Tata has been a regular guest here on Family Talk. She’s been with us many times before. She’s the founder of Johnny and Friends Ministry, which recently celebrated their 45th anniversary. Our second guest today is Robert Wolgamuth, a respected Christian literary agent who has represented many successful authors, including Dr. Dobson. Robert has also written 20 books on his own. And our third guest is Robert’s late wife, Bobbi, who went home to be with the Lord in 2014. Bobbi’s passion for worship and biblical truth still shines through, and you’ll hear it in today’s program. So now let’s join this musical and inspiring conversation, which was recorded before a studio audience on today’s edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, one of the songs on Worship the King is Oh Sacred Head Now Wounded. And Johnny and Bobby are in the studio. We’re all in the studio, but they’re singing. And they’re singing like two women literally standing at the foot of the cross. And it was unbelievable how, in fact, John MacArthur and Paul Plew, the director, and I were standing there and we were weeping because we were drawn to that moment. These women, looking at the crucified Savior, really wondering if this was the end. We, of course, know that it was only the beginning. But being filled with a great sense of awe, being there at that moment was a tremendous experience. And the phrase at the end of the first verse says, what joy to call him mine. that all of this leads toward, we fellowship in His sufferings, and He gives us, He gives us the joy of knowing Him, of filling us with His Spirit. So that became one of our favorites, just to hear these women at the foot of the cross singing this incredible hymn.
SPEAKER 06 :
O sacred head, now wounded, with grief and shame weighed down, Now scornfully surrounded With arms thine only crown O sacred hand, what glory What bliss till now Christ and glory I join to call suffered was all for sinners’ gain. Mine, mine was the transgression, but thine the deadly pain. Oh, here I fall myself Tis I deserve thy praise Look on me with thy favor Bow safe to thee, my grace What languish I To thank thee, dearest friend For this thy dying sorrow Thy pity without end O make me thine forever And should I faint again proudly.
SPEAKER 07 :
Oh, that’s absolutely beautiful.
SPEAKER 05 :
Johnny, what’s the history of that hymn? Bernard of Clairvaux. We’re talking about a saint who lived in the Dark Ages. And I think in the year 900, he had penned the words to this hymn to think that there were people back then whom we have such a deep, intimate union, a connection with.
SPEAKER 01 :
And we were talking earlier about visiting with our grandmothers. Who are, in my case, Bobby has a grandmother who’s living who’s 99. I have a grandmother who’s living who’s 105. We were there two years ago when she was 103. And she hasn’t outlived her love for Christ. And he says in that text, and may I never, never outlive my love for thee. And so here are these people who have lived over a century, and they have not outlived their love for Him.
SPEAKER 07 :
We need to hear those lyrics. Now, we just heard them sung, but I’m not sure that all of us captured the poetry of it in the theology. Read it for us.
SPEAKER 04 :
Bernard was a monk, and he had taken – he wanted to paint a picture verbally of – the Christ on the cross and the different parts of his body and looking at that. And he starts with, “‘O sacred head, now wounded, with grief and shame weighed down, now scornfully surrounded with thorns, thine only crown. O sacred head, what glory, what bliss till now was thine. Yet though despised and gory, I joy to call thee mine.'”
SPEAKER 05 :
I love that verse which says, what language shall I borrow to thank thee, dearest friend? Don’t you ever feel like that? Where in the world can we find adjectives enough or adverbs to express to the Lord Jesus Christ our affection, our fervent devotion for him? And here there was a monk in 1,500 years ago who’s just as desperate to look for the adjectives. What language shall we borrow? My mother, Dr. Dobson, is 87 years old. And here’s the woman who taught me and my sisters so many of those wonderful hymns. And she’s frail mentally, struggles with depression, went through breast cancer, broke her shoulder on the tennis court at the age of 84, has seen all of her friends pass on. And it’s hard for her just to get going during the day. So we have this little tradition where I telephone her and we’ll talk and then I’ll say, Mom, what’s the hymn for the day? And lately she’s been a little too weak to come up with ideas. And she said, Oh, Johnny, you’ll have to pick one today. So the other day I picked Living for Jesus, a life that is new. And as she sang along with me, and I could hear the frailty in her voice over the telephone wires, I reminded her at the close of our time together, I said, Mom, there’s always a reason to keep going. And even though it’s hard for you at the age of 87, Mom, your life can be new if you keep living for Jesus each day. And for my mother, who looks to me for strength and leadership now, she’ll see me in this wheelchair and she’ll say to me with her weak voice, if you can do it, I can do it. And I will often say back to her, mommy, I can’t do it, but Jesus can. And through him, we can do all things. We can keep living for Jesus each and every day, fresh and new. That’s the power of a hymn and the words that can be life altering for someone who’s got a pretty fearful heart.
SPEAKER 07 :
If you look at the content of most of our sermons today, they emphasize love. more often getting through today or tomorrow instead of looking forward to heaven. And yet you go back to the old hymns of the church, and they all, most of them, focus one way or another on heaven. That’s right.
SPEAKER 05 :
One day He’s coming, O glorious day. We can’t wait.
SPEAKER 07 :
When we all get to heaven.
SPEAKER 06 :
That’s right.
SPEAKER 07 :
You all have sung that one a thousand times. Would you all like to express appreciation to these folks? Thank you. speaks for itself.
SPEAKER 05 :
That does.
SPEAKER 07 :
How about if we all sing a hymn?
SPEAKER 05 :
Could we sing Amazing Grace? Could we do that?
SPEAKER 07 :
Let’s do it.
SPEAKER 05 :
And would you sing with us in the gallery? Would you?
SPEAKER 06 :
Amazing grace, how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me. I once was lost, but now am found. Was blind, but now I see.
SPEAKER 05 :
There’s somebody in the front row, maybe 9, 10 years old. You knew the words. I’m impressed. Thank you, friends.
SPEAKER 07 :
We’ve been talking about the theology of the hymns. Think of the theology of those lyrics. “‘Twas grace that taught my heart to fear, and grace my fears relieved.”
SPEAKER 06 :
What a great concept.
SPEAKER 07 :
It does both of those things.
SPEAKER 01 :
That’s right.
SPEAKER 07 :
Oh, my. Well, what concerns me goes back to my question that the generation who was raised on these hymns and that loves them the most is passing. And the question is, will the baton be handed to the next generation?
SPEAKER 04 :
I think that’s why we were encouraged by the Master’s Choir. These kids study hymnology in their college curriculum. There is nothing more outstanding than to see these young people with faces open to the microphones just singing with their hearts these old hymns. I think it is happening. And I think the young people are going to lead the way.
SPEAKER 01 :
And, in fact, Bobbi, tell the story about when your mother was just a few days from her own death.
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh. My mother knew she was going to die, and the doctor had said, you probably have two or three weeks left. So I flew right away to Pennsylvania and joined my two sisters. And she asked me, knowing that I sing, and I’m the only one that did, she said, would you sing at my funeral? And I said, mother. I can’t sing at your funeral. And she said, she didn’t say anything else about it. Then three days before she was incoherent, which was about a week before she died, I was having breakfast with her, and we were then sitting next to the couch with each other, and she said, I had a dream last night. She said, I dreamed that I walked through this tunnel, and on the other side of the tunnel was the most glorious music. And she said, there were instruments everywhere, but I didn’t recognize one of them. And I said, Mother, that was a vision of heaven. God was showing you what you’re going to. And she said, yes, and you’re going to sing. And I said, okay, I’ll sing at your funeral. And I did. I sang at her funeral. Wow.
SPEAKER 01 :
Just talk about what you sang.
SPEAKER 04 :
I sang, but just think of stepping on shore and finding it heaven, of touching a hand and finding it God’s, of breathing new air and finding it celestial, of waking up in glory and finding it home. And I sang a hymn also, but she wanted that one song. And I sat down next to my dad after the song, and then I fell apart. But I made it through that song, and I just knew that, and it is well with my soul. I sang at my mom’s funeral.
SPEAKER 05 :
I was at a fundraiser for the American Diabetic Association in Los Angeles, and the head of it, Dr. Alice Bessman, a friend of my parents from Baltimore who had come to California… She was there when I was injured. Came to town to speak at Johns Hopkins, a gentleman from Rancho Los Domingos Hospital, one of the premier rehab centers in the United States back then, Dr. Nichols. She begged him to please come to this state hospital, see this 17-year-old girl, and give an assessment of sorts. She was trying very hard to get me out of that state institution and over to Rancho in California for good rehab. And so I can’t remember this, but she told me this just a few short months ago. She said, don’t you remember the day Dr. Nichols and I visited you? And I said, no, I can’t remember what happened. She said, Johnny, he took a pin and he started down with your ankle and pricked your skin to see if you could feel it. And he worked his way up your body. Can you feel this? And I say, no. Can you feel this? No. Got to my hip, my chest. Can you feel this? No. No. And I was so anxious, she said. And finally, she said, you came out with, no, no, I can’t feel that. But I can sing. I can sing. And so I proceeded to start singing this hymn, she said.
SPEAKER 07 :
Johnny, how in the world did you sing in the midst of a…
SPEAKER 05 :
I was flat on my back. I was flat on my back. I was a young lifer. I had come to Christ’s young life. And again, back in those days, they taught you hymns, Man of Sorrows and Can It Be? Oh, the Deep, Deep Love of Jesus. And so a young lifer. And plus, in my own church, Reformed Episcopalian, I’d learned all these hymns. And I was so desperate to please this important man from Angelos Amigos that I could do something I can’t feel, but I can sing. And so I broke out into a song. And I don’t remember that. But when she shared that with me a couple of months ago, I thought, thank you, Lord. That was your grace. You did that. You were there. You were sustaining me even when I was depressed. Johnny, I’m going to spring something on you.
SPEAKER 07 :
But it really shouldn’t be a surprise because whenever you come, there’s a song that you sing. and you’ve sung it on two previous occasions, and I want you to do it again.
SPEAKER 05 :
Though I spend my mortal lifetime in this chair, I refuse to waste it living in despair. And though others may receive gifts of healing, I believe that He has given me a gift beyond compare. For heaven is nearer to me, and at times it is all I can see. Sweet music I hear coming down to my ear, and I know that it’s playing for me. For I am Christ, the Savior’s own bride and redeemed. I’m going to sing. Oh boy. By his side, he will say, you want to dance? And our endless romance will be worth all the tears I have cried. And I do love that song. That’s a wonderful song. And it’s going to be reality, and I can’t wait. Heaven’s on the horizon. I think one of the hallmarks of people who come through suffering and can follow the Apostle Paul out the other side and learn how to rejoice, not only learn how to be content, as it says, but learn to rejoice, is the blessing of a song.
SPEAKER 07 :
Johnny, is that religious propaganda for those who don’t know you? I mean, is that for real? Do you really inside yourself as you sit in that wheelchair, you will never walk in this life barring a miracle that’s unforeseen? Are you still optimistic because of the death of Christ and the promise of the resurrection?
SPEAKER 05 :
The best way I can answer that is to say that every morning with the girls who get me up, if my husband is not there to get me up, he leaves for work early. But the girls who get me up, there’s about seven or eight of them who on seven different mornings get me up. And one of the first things we do after I’m up in my wheelchair with hair brushed and teeth brushed is to crack open the hymn devotional for the day. What is the hymn for today, we’ll say. And yesterday when I got up it was, we’re marching to Zion, beautiful, beautiful Zion. We’re marching upward to Zion, the beautiful city of God. And Dr. Dobson, if I wake up in the morning and the encroachments of my disability are painful, if I am weary, if I am tired of the aches and the struggles of being 50 years old, 51 years old, and in a wheelchair for three and a half decades, it is a hymn that we grab hold of. It is the Word of God that reinforces the perspective. If you don’t feel like you can face the day, then grab a hold of that biblical truth that will force your body into submission. As the apostle said, I beat my body into submission. I won’t let my emotions drag me down the tubes. I have to jerk the aorta of my heart right side up with a hymn almost every morning. Yeah. And lo and behold, before 10, 20, 30 minutes passes, I can move into the day with a brighter perspective and have the joy that God’s word assures me of having if I grab hold of his grace.
SPEAKER 07 :
Johnny, just hearing those words are why you’re here today. I mean, the Lord brought us together today just to have our listeners and have us and and have me hear what you just said. There’s a whole sermon in there. And I wonder, Robert and Bobbie, if we will do as well with the coming trials in our lives, because it comes to everybody, as Johnny has done.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, she sets an example, and there’s a transparency there. This is what you’re saying. Your listeners aren’t here, and they can’t see what we’re seeing. There’s a love for Jesus. There’s a transparency there. And Johnny doesn’t live every day victoriously like some who would say that Jesus lifts you above this and you never have to face it. She would never say that. The fellowship of his sufferings would be one of the hallmarks of this woman who knows Christ because, not in spite of, but because of her sufferings. In fact, do you remember maybe five years ago, four years ago, you called in the middle of the night?
SPEAKER 05 :
I remember that. I was desperate and in pain. And I didn’t think I could go on. And there had been a couple of midnight moments at 2 a.m. when I just could not wake up my husband Ken another time. He had to get up and go to work. And I just couldn’t bring myself to ask him to turn me one more time on the pillows. And I knew that your wife, Bobbi, I knew that Bobbi had suffered terrible chronic back pain. And I telephoned you guys, remember?
SPEAKER 01 :
Oh, of course.
SPEAKER 05 :
How do you do it? How do you keep on going? And, Robert, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that in Christ we are not lifted above the sufferings. This is not some kind of ethereal, self-denial, Pollyanna way of looking at our problems. I think on the phone that night, and I believe we even sang a hymn together, there was a fellowship, a koinonia fellowship. of sharing in the sufferings of Christ, knowing that the weaker we are, the harder we lean on him, and the harder we lean on him, the more sweet, the more intimate. You hear his heartbeat. You get his EKG reading. You get his perspective. His lifeblood starts coursing through your veins, and there is a sweetness to the Savior. You know, all these old hymns about how precious or how sweet the Savior is. When I was a kid, I never understood that language. It seemed so archaic and out of date and old-fashioned. How can the Savior be sweet? But once you suffer and go through affliction, there is a honeycombeness. There is a taste. Taste and see that the Lord is good. There is that sweetness.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah. Thank you all for being our guests, and it’s a pleasure to have you all here. I always enjoy our times together. The name of the book is O Worship the King, and our guests are Robert and Bobby Wolgamuth and Johnny Erickson Tada. Come back and see us again, will you? We will.
SPEAKER 01 :
We’d love to.
SPEAKER 07 :
Thank you.
SPEAKER 03 :
During life’s deepest challenges, music can be a profound lifeline, a sweet reminder of the beauty and wisdom found in these timeless hymns. You’ve been listening to a special edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, and we’ve been joined today by special guests, Johnny Erickson Tata and Robert and Bobby Wolgamuth. They’ve been talking about Johnny, Robert, and Bobby’s book, written with John MacArthur, called O Worship the King, Hymns of Assurance and Praise to Encourage Your Heart. Now, the book O Worship the King was originally published in 2000, but recently, Johnny Erickson Tada also released a book about hymns called Songs of Suffering, 25 Hymns and Devotions for Weary Souls. You’ll find information on either or both of those books when you go to drjamesdobson.org forward slash family talk. And by the way, that’s also where you’ll find audio for today’s broadcast or if you’d like to listen to it again or share it with a friend. Well, coming up on Thursday, just two days from now, Americans will observe the National Day of Prayer, which is recognized the first Thursday of every month. And May 1st is that first Thursday. This wonderful tradition has roots stretching back to America’s founding. This resource reveals how prayer has sustained our nation through its most challenging seasons. You’ll find inspiration from our founders, practical prayer points for today’s issues, and a simple framework to guide your time before the Lord. Whether you’re a prayer veteran or you’re just starting your prayer journey, this comprehensive resource will deepen your understanding and your participation. You can download your free National Day of Prayer guide when you go to drjamesdobson.org. That’s drjamesdobson.org. Well, I’m Roger Marsh. Thanks so much for joining us today. Hope you’ll make plans to join us again next time right here for another edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, the voice you trust for the family you love. This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.
SPEAKER 02 :
Hey everyone, Roger Marsh here. When you think about your family and where they will be when you’re no longer living, are you worried? Are you confident? Are you hopeful? What kind of legacy are you leaving for your children and their children? Here at Family Talk, we’re committed to helping you understand the legacy that you’re leaving for your family. Join us today at drjamesdobson.org for helpful insights, tips, and advice from Dr. James Dobson himself. And remember, your legacy matters.
Music and faith collide in powerful ways as Dr. Dobson welcomes Johnny Erickson Tada and Robert and Bobbie Wolgamuth to discuss their book ‘O Worship the King’. Listen to inspiring stories of loss, resilience, and spiritual renewal that showcase why hymns have the potential to transform lives. This episode promises heartfelt examples of the healing power of music and touches on how these timeless pieces have been the cornerstone for countless believers throughout history.
