Explore Lisette Brody’s research journey that began with a simple trip to Israel and led to an articulation of biblical truths through her book ‘Etched in Stone.’ Hear about the remarkable discoveries such as King David’s validation, the Hittite civilization awakening, and the intriguing Jesus boat. This conversation unpacks not just historical artifacts but the emotional, spiritual understandings they afford.
Welcome everyone to Family Talk. It’s a ministry of the James Dobson Family Institute supported by listeners just like you. I’m Dr. James Dobson and I’m thrilled that you’ve joined us. Well, greetings, everyone. I’m your host, Dr. James Dobson, and I’m so glad you joined us today for Family Talk. You know, in the 19th chapter of the Gospel of Luke, Jesus provides a strong word picture about the stones and about how they sing God’s praises. In fact, I have that quote with me. Jesus answered, “‘I tell you, if these become silent, the stones will cry out.'” And that was meant apparently as a metaphor, but maybe not. And this phrase is now becoming true. Many archaeological discoveries, the rocks, if you will, throughout the Middle East have solidified this strong case for the accuracy of the Scripture and the reliability of it. Every word is God-breathed. And today we’re going to be talking primarily with a woman, but also with her husband, who has compiled a book of artifacts and excavated ruins that show us the validity and existence of ancient biblical characters. It’s fascinating to talk about the places throughout the modern day world and what’s going on there today. Her name is Lisette Brody. And she’s an author and a journalist. And she did her work, actually her first published work, was in the Christian Archaeologist magazine, the Bible and Spade, and also a newspaper here in Colorado Springs, of all places, called the Briargate Edition. Lisette earned her bachelor’s degree in foreign language from Syracuse University and a master’s degree in in biblical studies from Capital Bible Seminary. That was in 2013. Her husband, David, is here with us today. He’s the chief political analyst for the Christian Broadcast Network. And they’ve been married for 30 years. And they tell me that you were the primary researcher and facilitator for Lisette as she worked on this book.
SPEAKER 04 :
Definitely 100% supporter, researcher as well. But, you know, Lisette was the one that really had a lot of the artifacts already, ones that she wanted to display or talk about. And so it was my job to kind of go find those money quotes, as we call them. That’s what we do in journalism. So I figured I could go find the money quote to validate the artifact.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, they said what a fascinating subject to get interested in. What drew you to an archaeological perspective on Scripture?
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, it started back in 2000 when David and I went to Israel with our church, McLean Bible Church, pastored by Lon Solomon. And he toured us around the country. And on a particular day, he brought us to the Israel Museum. And while we were there, he showed us a lot of biblical artifacts that were on display. And I had already been a Christian for about 18 years, and I had no idea that any such artifacts existed. So I thought, I’m going to go to the bookstore and get a book on this. When I went, they didn’t have one. I said, that’s okay. When I get back to the States, I’ll get one there. When I got back, I got on the internet, I looked everywhere, and there was nothing that showed these different artifacts in a simple way. So I said, okay, I’ll write the book myself. And that’s how it started.
SPEAKER 03 :
Now, you’ve written this book called Etched in Stone, and Mike Huckabee wrote a comment for the cover. Let me read it. A refreshing look at how God’s Word stands the test of time. Lisette Bassett Brody has just provided every Bible-believing Christian with a valuable witnessing tool that should be required reading for every churchgoer today. That’s a pretty good recommendation, I would say. All right, let’s get into the heart of it. There’s a whole lot more that’s known about archaeological findings and digs and things that Support the existence of characters within the Bible. Let’s start with King David. He’s one of the most interesting persons in the Bible for me. Of course, Abraham and Moses and the rest of them. But my wife Shirley and I went to Israel in 1993. The first time we’d ever gone, and Ray Vanderlaan took us. I don’t know if you know who he is, but he takes a lot of people to Israel.
SPEAKER 01 :
I originally wanted to go with him, and we were on an eight-year waiting list.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, I don’t know how we got in, but we loved it, and I learned so much. But at that time— They told us that there was no evidence that David ever existed. I don’t know if that is true or if there has been – I know there have been recent findings that validate his place in history. Tell us about them.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, basically, a basalt stone slab was discovered in 1993.
SPEAKER 03 :
And what did it say?
SPEAKER 01 :
And it was the Aramean king of Damascus. He was commemorating a victory over the house of David. And it was the first time that the name of David appeared anywhere outside of the Bible. So this was a big find because it validated someone that we know, King David, a pretty big name.
SPEAKER 04 :
And I think what’s also interesting is that this was in U.S. News and World Report. So it wasn’t in some sort of Christianity, you know, book that just Christians will be reading and, oh, of course the Christians would believe that. No, this was in U.S. News and World Report, obviously a secular magazine. And so there was an author, Jeffrey Scheller, who, at least that quotes quite often in the book, who was an author of a book and wrote for U.S. News & World Report. Not a Christian, but a guy that really developed and had a lot of his life story in all of this and made sure that this got into secular magazines. How about King Herod?
SPEAKER 03 :
Is there any evidence of his having lived?
SPEAKER 01 :
Yes. In terms of King Herod, there was also a pottery shard that was found that came from a wine jug. It’s dated to about 19 BC, and it was found in a garbage heap that was at Herod’s palatial refuge atop of Masada. And the Latin inscription reads either Herod, King of Judea, or Herod, King of the Jews. Wow. So again, an unexpected find in a garbage heap. No one was looking for it. And it has his name on it.
SPEAKER 03 :
The detractors to the Bible have been pointing to things that don’t exist for many years, saying this is only referenced in a book that we don’t have any validity for. If you don’t believe that, it’s God-breathed. And yet these things are showing up. David, what else do you know of that you’ve found?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, there’s so many. I just thought the Hittite civilization was kind of neat. You can actually get a degree at the University of Pennsylvania in Hittite civilization, which I thought was interesting because this was a civilization that was lost for forever, really, until just the turn of the century. And I think that was a big – well, at least that was interesting to me.
SPEAKER 03 :
That entire civilization was completely lost until the 20th century.
SPEAKER 01 :
1906 is when they started to discover the text fragments.
SPEAKER 03 :
And yet there are many references to it in Scripture.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yes. So the Hittites descended from Ham, and then Esau and King Solomon had many Hittite wives, and Abraham purchased a cave in the Hittite territory where he, his son Isaac, his grandson Jacob, and their wives are buried. These are the things that we know from Scripture. And so when this group was lost to time, this is where the naysayers will tell you, you see, the Bible’s wrong, there’s no evidence, and then suddenly 30,000 fragments.
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, I saw a television program on Egypt, And there’s a lot known about the Hittites because they were at war with Egypt. So I don’t know when all that came to light, but it’s now absolutely established that the Hittites were a powerful nation. And at one time, I think, controlled a good part of that of the Middle East. What do we know about Jesus that might be linked directly from that time?
SPEAKER 01 :
They did find two things. One is affectionately called the Jesus boat. What happened was there was a two-year drought in Israel, and the water levels had been lowered, and it exposed part of the boat from out of the water. The people that found it, they were two brothers, Moshi and Yuval Lufen. They happened to be on the beach that day because they liked to go and look for artifacts that would wash up on the shore. They would often find coins and things. And when they saw it, they immediately contacted the Department of Antiquities, and the department started an emergency excavation. So through carbon-14 dating and the way the boat is constructed, along with pottery that was found nearby, they’ve been able to— determined that the boat was probably in use from 100 BC to 67 AD, which of course is when Jesus was around. And that’s why they call it the Jesus boat. We’ve actually seen it in person. And it’s one of the best preserved boats because it’s so old. I mean, somehow the water, maybe whatever it was, it was preserved in the water, which is odd because wood and water don’t necessarily go together.
SPEAKER 03 :
In your book you indicate there is one reference to Jesus’ family. Tell us about that. That, I think, fascinated me as much as anything else in the book.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah. Well, we know that Mary and Joseph were Jesus’ parents. Of course, Joseph being the stepdad. And James was one of his half-brothers. And James wrote the book of James in the New Testament, and he was also a leader in the Jerusalem church. And so what was discovered was a bone box which had written on the side of it, James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus. And usually the only time you might put someone else’s name on a bone box, maybe besides your own, would be if that person was well-known in the community. So although many would question the authenticity, anything that has to do with the Bible, people question it. We have a renowned paleographer, Andre Lemaire, who authenticated the lettering on the box. And this lettering was used only— a very short period of time, from 10 AD to about 70 AD. So it would seem, and it has been authenticated, that this bone box did belong to Jesus’ brother.
SPEAKER 03 :
Lisette and David, I told you that Shirley and I went to Israel in 1993. In fact, June 16, 1993. But I had the opportunity to go again in June. I went with a committee of religious leaders, pastors that people would know. And it was an absolutely fascinating journey. But one of the things we saw there was right near the Sea of Galilee, an archaeological dig revealing Mary Magdalene’s synagogue where she actually attended. I don’t know how they know that. But there is a church there, the Church of Mary Magdalene. And it was very emotional because right in front of that synagogue, and of course it’s only about two feet high because they’ve had to excavate it, was a pathway that Jesus undoubtedly walked on on his way down to the Galilee. There were things like that. There was one other thing that stood out to me. From the 1993 trip. And that was the city of Megiddo. Have you ever been to Megiddo?
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, I don’t think we were actually in Megiddo. No, but we did see it as we were driving by. Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
I have a photograph there. I have a photograph of a round stone temple sacrifice area where children were burned. And it’s about four feet high and it’s round. And the Baal was worshipped there by sacrificing children there. And what was most fascinating, I’ve never heard anybody mention this, over on both sides, about 50 yards, was a pile of rocks. And I went over there and I saw that mingled among them were little bones, little tiny bones, two or three inches high. And I brought a sack full of them home and took them to a pathologist here in Colorado Springs. And I asked him to tell me if these were human.
SPEAKER 04 :
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 03 :
He would not absolutely say that it was, but he said it very easily could have been. And these are baby bones. These are not more than two or three inches long. And there we stood in front of the ancient place where people worshipped Baal and probably other gods and killed babies right there. That was, I think, one of the most fascinating and emotional things that we saw while we were in Israel. You were there 18 years ago? Yes. Did you see things that moved you and touched you and drew you toward this study?
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, one of the things that stands out to me is there’s a pathway right by Robinson’s Arch. And there was an archaeological dig going on at the time, but because there was turmoil—I mean, there’s always turmoil over there, but in this particular time— The country, a lot of tours had canceled and decided not to go. Even our tour, which was supposed to have about 210 people on it, only 90 of us went. So we had a lot more freedom to move about. And so we were allowed to go down onto this pathway where there was still a dig going on. These were original stones back in Jesus’ day. And that would have been a path that Jesus would have taken during the night that he was on trial. And there were six trials, illegal.
SPEAKER 03 :
And they have completed the excavation. And we stood there and saw the place where Jesus was right near the wailing wall.
SPEAKER 01 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
And it was very emotional for all of us.
SPEAKER 01 :
Exactly. Because being original, you have the idea that Jesus walked there for sure, 100%. And maybe your foot is touching a spot that his foot touched. And I don’t know. It’s just very moving. Wow.
SPEAKER 03 :
I encourage all of our listeners to go to Israel if they can possibly afford to do so. Because the spirit of that era and the spirit of Jesus Christ hangs heavy over that place.
SPEAKER 01 :
Still very palatable even today.
SPEAKER 04 :
There are so many stories that are emotionally jarring and wonderful and etched in stone, so to speak, in people’s memories. But I understand you had one as well when you flew over the Mount of Transfiguration. I’m curious about that.
SPEAKER 03 :
That was a highlight for me. We were on helicopters. They gave us eight helicopters provided by the Israeli government. It was a fascinating experience. We flew over all of Jerusalem and northern Israel and over the Galilee. And then we came back and flew over the Mount of Transfiguration. That’s where Jesus was transfigured, obviously. It’s just not far from Jerusalem. And we flew right over it. It’s a pointed, looks like it might have been a volcano at one point. But to think that we’re looking down right on the place where Jesus went upward and three disciples were with him. I think everybody knows that story. Everywhere you look was something historic, something relevant to our scriptures. And I tell you, if you have reason to question the validity of Scripture, go to that place, echoing the history and all that has taken place through the centuries. You just think of all the things that occurred right there on that place. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 01 :
Absolutely. That’s wonderful. I mean, even if you are not a Christian, I had a roommate. She was Jewish, and she went to Israel for a year, and she lived on a kibbutz. And she said, I don’t know, but I definitely feel something here. There’s definitely something in this country that is special that is not found anywhere else. She couldn’t really name it, but she felt it.
SPEAKER 03 :
Lissette, let me end with this question because there’s nothing more interesting in the way of artifacts than the Dead Sea Scrolls. Explain to everybody who doesn’t know what they are and what the linkage is to what you found in your biblical search.
SPEAKER 01 :
What’s so amazing about the Dead Sea Scrolls is that it’s the oldest version of scriptures that we have. And they match so perfectly with what we have today. Exactly, the book of Isaiah. Because what critics will say is, the Bible is so old, it’s got to be full of mistakes, misinterpretations, all kinds of problems. And then we find the Dead Sea Scrolls and find out, nope, there are no inconsistencies whatsoever, and the Bible can be trusted. And not only the Dead Sea Scrolls, I do want to mention— One very minor character that most people probably don’t even know exists or realize they may have read his name, and that’s Gemariah. We really don’t know anything about Jamariah, except for that he was the son of a man named Shaphan. And Shaphan was the temple secretary, and therefore we can infer that he was from a noble family. During an excavation of a building that Nebuchadnezzar had destroyed in 586 B.C., a boula was found. So a boula is a lump of clay that they used to use to seal documents with string. And often the person’s name would appear on this boula. And the Bula had, quote, Gemariah, son of Shaphan. And what’s so compelling about this is that something so small and insignificant, a person that has no other information besides who his father was… was corroborated with archaeology. And if something so small and insignificant can be supported by Scripture and can be trusted, then the bigger truths of the Bible certainly can be trusted.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, I’m so glad you came to be with us and gave us an opportunity to learn about your book, Lisette. And are you writing any more on this subject?
SPEAKER 01 :
Not at the moment, although the idea has come up a few times. But we’ll see what happens in the future. We’ll see if God calls me to write another one.
SPEAKER 03 :
Let me tell you what Jay Sekulow had to say. He’s Jewish also, isn’t he? Lissette Brody hits the mark perfectly as she demonstrates how the validity of the Bible has been clearly etched and sewn since the beginning of creation. That’s a beautiful statement. And that’s what you were trying to say, isn’t it?
SPEAKER 01 :
Exactly. I wanted to let people know that there’s physical evidence that supports Scripture. And for the Christian, this can strengthen their faith. And for the non-Christian, it at least gives them something to think about.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. Well, I hope that our listeners will get a copy of this and give it to their friends, maybe their Jewish friends, or anyone who doesn’t know Christ and to see the validity. Thanks for being with us today.
SPEAKER 01 :
Thank you.
SPEAKER 03 :
This was great. Thank you, Dr. Dobson.
SPEAKER 02 :
You know, it is quite remarkable when we get to see the proof of what we already believe and know is true solidified right before our eyes. Biblical artifacts inspired Lisette and David Brody and ignited a deeper faith within them. And they shared that knowledge and passion with you in their book called Etched in Stone. I’m Roger Marsh. And today here on Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, we heard doctors fascinating conversation with the Brody’s. about the book Etched in Stone. You can find information on how to receive a copy when you go to drjamesdobson.org, that’s drjamesdobson.org, or by giving us a call at 877-732-6825. That’s 877-732-6825. Well, as Mother’s Day is approaching coming up this Sunday, we want to celebrate the incredible women who shape our lives with their love, wisdom, and sacrifice. That’s why we have created the free Empowering Moms series. It delivers five minutes of encouragement straight to your inbox each and every day. You know, being a mom might just be the world’s most rewarding job. And at the same time, the most challenging job too. Well, this email series offers practical, biblically-based advice, along with a daily prayer to refresh your spirit during those busy days. So whether you’re a new mom or a seasoned grandmother, these timely messages will remind you of your profound purpose. Simply go to drjamesdobson.org. enter your name and email address, and then you’ll start receiving this free resource. It’s our way of saying thank you for the immeasurable difference that you make as a mom or a grandmother. Again, go to drjamesdobson.org, give us your name and email address, and we’ll be happy to start sending you the free Empowering Moms series. Well, I’m Roger Marsh and on behalf of all of us here at the JDFI, thanks so much for listening today. We appreciate your prayers and faithful financial support of our ministry. Remember, you can give a gift online at drjamesdobson.org. You can also make your tax-deductible donation over the phone when you call 877-732-6825. or to send your gift through the U.S. Postal Service, our ministry mailing address is Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, P.O. Box 39000, Colorado Springs, Colorado, the zip code 80949. And be sure to join us again next time right here for another edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk. This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.
Explore Lisette Brody’s research journey that began with a simple trip to Israel and led to an articulation of biblical truths through her book ‘Etched in Stone.’ Hear about the remarkable discoveries such as King David’s validation, the Hittite civilization awakening, and the intriguing Jesus boat. This conversation unpacks not just historical artifacts but the emotional, spiritual understandings they afford.
