Join Dr. Dobson for a heartfelt discussion with the Parrotts as they share their insights on overcoming communication hurdles. Our hosts examine the underlying needs that drive communication patterns and introduce the innovative Love Talk Indicator. Learn about the ‘fear factors’ – Time, Approval, Loyalty, and Quality – and how they influence how we speak to our spouses. This episode offers powerful tools for transforming how couples converse, ensuring that love is both expressed and received effectively.
00:00:00 Introduction to the Show with Dr. James Dobson
Hello, everyone. You’re listening to Family Talk, the radio broadcasting ministry of the James Dobson Family Institute. I’m Dr. James Dobson, and thank you for joining us for this program.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, welcome to Family Talk with psychologist and bestselling author, Dr. James Dobson. I’m Roger Marsh. Have you ever felt misunderstood by your spouse despite your best efforts to communicate with him or her? Well, many couples find themselves speaking different emotional languages and they don’t even realize they’re doing so. Today here on Family Talk, we are continuing our conversation with relationship experts, Drs. Les and Leslie Parrott, about their breakthrough book called Love Talk. Speak each other’s language like you never have before. The Parrotts have discovered that we all have unique communication styles driven by different underlying needs for emotional safety. Les and Leslie Parrott are co-founders of the Center for Relationship Development at Seattle Pacific University, where Les also serves as professor of psychology. Leslie works as a marriage and family therapist in the Seattle area, and together they’ve pioneered research that helps couples identify their unique talk styles so they can better understand each other. On our last broadcast, the Parrots introduced us to their innovative approach to overcoming communication roadblocks. On today’s Family Talk program, they’ll dive deeper into what they call our fear factors, the underlying needs that actually drive our communication patterns. They’ll also share how understanding these factors can transform your conversations and create a deeper connection with your spouse. So now let’s join Dr. James Dobson and his guests, Drs. Les and Leslie Parrott, for this eye-opening conversation here on Family Talk.
SPEAKER 03 :
We always have to kind of recap a little bit because you can’t assume that the people listening today were able to hear yesterday and vice versa. So people are able to kind of hit and miss with listening to the broadcast. So I think we ought to take just a few moments, Les and Leslie, to talk about what we’re talking about, which is communication. Right. It’s not a new subject, certainly. Communication, everybody knows that’s important. Right. But how do you pull that off? And what are some of the principles that make it easier for a husband and wife to understand one another? And there’s a lot more here than meets the eye.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah. And like we said last time, we’ve been on a quest to really apply this to our own lives and feel like we’ve discovered something unique. that creates a safe place in our relationship. Like we said last time, to create almost a tangible room in your home where you could be guaranteed to have a wonderful conversation. That’s what Love Talk is about.
SPEAKER 03 :
And you can say a lot of words to each other and not be understood. That’s for sure. Not really be communicating. Right, Leslie?
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah. And in that way, we kind of feel like we’ve cracked a code that helps us make that connection and speak each other’s language like we never have before, because we’ve had that experience in our own marriage where you just don’t understand me. You know, why is it that we can’t get to that place where we feel fully at home, fully understood and safe with each other? And this has made a difference.
SPEAKER 04 :
And that’s what it’s about, feeling safe. And once you have that, boy, does life begin to look a lot different.
SPEAKER 03 :
And let me say it again. The subtitle is Speak Each Other’s Language Like You Never Have Before. In the back of the book is a little test, an inventory.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah. There’s something kind of unusual about this book. And we worked with our publisher, Zondervan, on this because we actually – you’re reading along and it will tell you to do something unusual. And that is to slip the dust jacket off of this hardcover book. And you’ll find an ink-jetted code back there that’s specific to your book. And why? Well, you take that little code and you can go to our website at realrelationships.com, punch that code in and take what we call the Love Talk Indicator. And the really cool thing is it’ll give you about 12 to 15 pages on your talk style. how you’re hardwired for communication. And that’ll be helpful to understand that. But then you get your spouse to go on, do the same thing. And then we will combine those codes and give you a, is it a 24?
SPEAKER 01 :
A couple’s report. It can be as long as 30 pages, depending on the couple. You know, every report’s unique to this couple.
SPEAKER 04 :
But it combines your two talk styles and shows you, in fact, very specifically, it might say, here’s six things you should never say to me because of the way I’m hardwired.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, I personally, and I love this because some of these pages are perforated. You can tear them out and hand them to your spouse. These are six things never to say to me because when you do, you know… Communication breaks down for me.
SPEAKER 04 :
Or here’s things that I need to hear more often from you. So it gets very specific. But let’s back up from it and take a look, though, at these fear factors, these safety needs. There’s four of them.
SPEAKER 03 :
I want to get to those. But first, give people, Leslie, a feel for that test. What kind of questions are asked?
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, I’ll tell you what it does. It asks questions that helps you understand your talk style. And it’s all based on this idea that we’ve been talking about, these fear factors. And let me just tell you what’s behind it. Because we started, when we were on this quest to really uncover What would it take to have great communication? What we started noticing about ourselves is we do a great job of communicating until we have a breakdown. Something happens and one of us doesn’t feel safe. And when you get afraid in a situation, when you have fear, You get kind of crazy in your behavior.
SPEAKER 04 :
We had a funny moment between us. What are the four fear factors? They’re easy to remember because there’s an acronym and it spells talk, but we spell it a little bit differently. T-A-L-Q. Talk. Okay. Each one of those represents a fear factor. T is for time. Some of us are hardwired to feel safe when we’re controlling our time. And we feel threatened when we’re losing control of that time that we value because we’re pretty urgent. We go through life, and I say we because this is my number one fear factor. I’m hardwired to use my time well. This is a commodity I want to protect. And so I’m efficient with my time. I want to be productive with my time. And there’s people out there listening to us, even with this little short introduction, going, boy, that’s me. I am the same way. I’m hardwired for time, and I’m urgent about it.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yes, and urgency is the key there because if this is your fear factor, if being in control of your time is what makes you feel safe and not being in control makes you feel unsafe, it makes you extremely urgent. And if you have a problem, anything that crops up in your day, you are going to respond to that with a very aggressive approach. You’re going to want to take care of that now, get it off your checklist, and get on with your life.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, or you find yourself in the midst of a conversation that seems to just keep going on and on. Didn’t we already cover this ground, you know? I never do that. Or probably the most common scenario is we have a problem to solve, and I want to solve it right now.
SPEAKER 01 :
No matter what that problem is.
SPEAKER 04 :
Big or little. And she has, since time is not a fear factor for her, she’s like, oh, let’s just give it time. We can just, you know, just give it more time. And I’m like, give it time. Come on, let’s get going on this thing, you know. So that’s where some couples have that breakdown in communication because one of them is hardwired for time as their fear factor.
SPEAKER 01 :
It could be anything. I remember this summer, Les was trying to prepare our oldest son for kindergarten. He just felt he needed to know a few things before he got into school. So you were working with him for like, I don’t know, I mean, 30 minutes, 45 minutes.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, and I was teaching him the difference between coins and nickel and a penny. And I’m sure every school teacher out there is saying, that’s way too advanced. He doesn’t need to know that at this stage. You know, how many pennies are in a nickel? And now I know that. But at the time, I thought, why isn’t little John getting this? And so after working with him a little while, I finally said, stay here, John. Let me go talk to mommy for a minute. And I went into the kitchen. I said to Leslie, I said, we’ve got a problem. She said, what? And I said, John doesn’t understand money. And he said, well, he’s not even in kindergarten. What do you mean? He doesn’t understand money. He shouldn’t understand it yet. And I said, well, I think we need to get a tutor. And she said, what do you mean? We don’t need a tutor. He hasn’t even started his first day of kindergarten yet. You’re way too urgent about this. And I said, well, let’s get a tutor and call the students.
SPEAKER 01 :
Call the university today and get a college student or tutor. I mean, that’s how every problem is for him. Let’s solve it now. He’s a very aggressive problem solver. And that’s what anyone whose primary fear factor is getting in control of their time.
SPEAKER 04 :
And even as I was talking about that, I see Leslie begin to well up with tears a little bit. And I thought, what did I say? Where did this come from?
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, I’ll tell you where it came from because he tapped into my primary fear factor, and that’s that A in that talk, which is approval. Anytime I start to fear that I have lost the approval of someone who I love and respect and I’m in a conversation – That’s when I get afraid and I start shutting down. And all I could hear in his comments were, you have been a terrible mom. You haven’t prepared your son for the outside world. We’re going to need to get an extra help, you know, in order to get him ready to function in society. And I welled up with tears.
SPEAKER 04 :
And that thought never crossed my mind. All I was trying to do was solve the problem. And here she was. I’ve threatened her fear factor, her safety need.
SPEAKER 03 :
Let me press you guys a little bit, okay? That’s what makes for a good conversation. The title fear factor seems not to address all the things that I would be feeling in a negative context. I might be feeling irritation or frustration or competing objectives. or a strong desire of one sort or another. And not fear. I can’t think of many situations in my relationship with Shirley where I would feel something that I would call fear. I’m not sure how you’re using that. You understand what I’m talking about? Yeah, I think I do.
SPEAKER 04 :
I think what we’re trying to get at here is that you may feel, whether you even know it or not, emotionally threatened. In other words, when a couple has a communication meltdown, they’re typically having that meltdown because one of them doesn’t feel safe. Somehow you’ve tapped into their threat level for them, whether it is time or the loss of approval. Time would be the fear of losing control of your time.
SPEAKER 01 :
But it might not be an emotional experience. And that’s what you’re saying because really only some of us live in our feelings. And I’ll tell you who lives in their feelings, the people whose fear factor is approval. If that’s not high for you, you don’t evaluate things. Anything, you know, on the basis of your emotions. But still, like you said, your objectives, your main goals might be being threatened or you might, you know, you just this is not what you want.
SPEAKER 03 :
I would not feel threatened. And I’m very comfortable with the relationship with Shirley and have been for all these years. So I would not feel unsafe. I might feel uncomfortable about something. I don’t like what’s going on between us because we’re coming from a different perspective. I may not feel understood and that may frustrate me, but I don’t feel unsafe or afraid.
SPEAKER 04 :
You don’t feel psychologically underneath it. You don’t feel underneath this issue, whatever it might be, that she’s tapped into something that threatens your… We’ve only talked about two of them so far. We have two to go. But your fear of losing control of what you wanted to get done today because time is important… That’s not fear.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s… You know, I’ve got a to-do list, and the day’s getting away. It’s already 1130, and I haven’t gotten started on it. And Shirley wants me – we had a big fight one time over the umbrella in the backyard. And Shirley wanted me to go out there and clean that thing. I’d been gone for six weeks. I came home. I was tired. I wanted to watch an SC Alabama football game. Right. I didn’t want to go out there and clean that umbrella. Well, she had 75 people coming to our house that night. We were allowing a Sunday school class to use our house. And she was concerned about the fact that it was dirty. So it was very logical that she wanted me to do that. But I was frustrated because I was tired and I wanted to do my own thing. I wasn’t afraid. I wasn’t unsafe. I was just— How about shirts?
SPEAKER 04 :
How did she feel in that situation where you said, no, I don’t want to do that. I want to do my own thing.
SPEAKER 03 :
She felt not understood because it was perfectly reasonable for her to say, I don’t want these people coming in here and that umbrella being dirty. Right. You know, it may be semantics.
SPEAKER 04 :
It could be. But do you think that underneath that message she might have felt a little bit? Maybe the message to her was, well, if he loved me, he would really do that. And therefore, I’m losing his approval, perhaps?
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, I don’t know what—yeah, I can’t even begin to know what Shirley’s fear factor might be. But I do think women might relate more to the term safety and fear than men. That’s very, very possible and probable. Men might feel frustrated or anxious or— disappointed or angry even. But what’s threatening it is the same dynamic. And when you understand it, that’s what helps you crack that code because you know what pushes your hot buttons in a conversation.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. What are the other two?
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes, you have T-A-L-Q, time approval. The third is loyalty. Some of us are hardwired for fear of losing a sense of profound loyalty. Now, of course, we all want loyalty in our relationships.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, this isn’t about commitment or covenant in a marriage. This is more about what you love, what makes you feel safe in your lifestyle. And it has to do with resisting change. You love things to be the way they are.
SPEAKER 04 :
Predictability. And you love that groove and that you drive home from work the same way. Some people like spontaneity and why should any day be the same as any other? Let’s make every day. And so this particular need of loyalty for some can really get under another person’s skin if that person doesn’t respect it and value it.
SPEAKER 01 :
I’m fairly high on my need for loyalty. Les is very low. I mean, he he’ll hang up from a phone call and he’ll come in and say, hey, I just talked to Joe and we’re going to go to Phoenix tomorrow. And he’s thrilled. He loves a sudden change. I’m not like that at all. I you know, what about my small group? What about Tammy? I was going to have lunch with her. And, you know, we just can’t suddenly change something. I don’t even want to change the grocery store where I shop. I love to go to the same place. I know what to expect. And, you know, it’s just a high need. That makes me feel emotionally safe not having a lot of change in my life.
SPEAKER 04 :
And so in our conversations, we’re negotiating change a lot. A lot of conversations in marriage are dealt with.
SPEAKER 01 :
Whether it’s just changing the schedule or what we were, you know, what I thought we were going to do for our date night. You know, maybe Les said last week, let’s try this restaurant that, you know, and that sounds like a great date. And then we get to that night and he says, you know what? I’m not in the mood for that. Here’s what I’d like to do. I’m like, well, I’ve been looking forward to that always.
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, that is a fundamental difference between men and women. Men like change. I like spontaneity. I like newness. I like challenge. I like, you know, aggressive new possibilities. And Shirley likes predictability and stability and certainty. She’s a good woman.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yes, she is.
SPEAKER 03 :
Long-term security and so on. That’s why a move is usually so much more difficult for a woman than a man. And if you’re going to move as a family, a husband had better understand that this is going to be very challenging for his wife.
SPEAKER 04 :
I agree with you. But there are men that are also hardwired for this sense of stability, too.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, and we know them. I mean, we have a friend, George, who’s been driving the same car. I mean, he could afford anything he wants, but he’s been driving the same truck for 30 years because a good friend gave it to him. And it means something to him. And he’s loyal. He doesn’t want to change anything in his life.
SPEAKER 04 :
He doesn’t like the furniture to be changed in the living room.
SPEAKER 01 :
Even this week, he was getting the engine fixed, which needed an overhaul. And I said, well, tell me about that. And he was trading out from a childhood friend who remembered him defending him on the playground in grade school. I mean, this man’s life is about relationships he started when he was a child. And those are the friends he loves today. So it can be in a man.
SPEAKER 04 :
When we talk about this to a large auditorium, one of the things I’ll do just to illustrate the point is to say, okay, now, you know, for the last half of this day, let’s just trade seats. Everybody get up and sit on the other side of the room or down front. And they start to look around like, what? This is crazy.
SPEAKER 01 :
Why would we do that?
SPEAKER 04 :
And I say, there you go. It illustrates the point. We like that loyalty.
SPEAKER 01 :
There are some people that go, hey, that’s great, you know, because they’re the spontaneous ones. They love nothing to be the same.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right, what’s Q? D-A-L, time, approval, loyalty. And Q is for quality. Some of us are hardwired for fear of losing a quality standard in our life. Now, hopefully we all prize integrity. This has something to do with a little bit deeper than that, doesn’t it?
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, this is more about decisions. How do you make decisions in your life? You know, Someone who is high in their need for quality puts everything through due process. They don’t just want to do the right thing. They want to do it in the right way. You know, they don’t want to make any mistakes with their process. They read the instructions. They carefully consider everything about their life.
SPEAKER 04 :
If they’re going to buy a lawnmower, they check consumer reports. They’re going to do the research. Now, I’m low on this. I’m high on time and low on quality. So, in fact, just recently when I got little Johnny a tricycle, you know, it comes in a million pieces and you’re reading the instructions and I’m thinking, oh, I can just do intuitively. You know, I’ll know how to put this together. Halfway through that, I realized the rear axle was out an extra like six inches. Actually, John noticed that.
SPEAKER 03 :
John said, Daddy, I don’t think it’s supposed to look that way. Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, yeah, John, this is how they’re doing them now, you know. Let’s just get it going, you know. And a person that is high on quality would never approach it that way.
SPEAKER 01 :
No, I mean, it’s an event to, you know, ever go to a restaurant with someone who is high on quality. I mean, they don’t just sit down and say, I feel like eating this. You know, they study the menu. They consider they want to hear all the specials. They want to know every option, and they carefully make their decision. And that’s what it’s like, you know, for someone who has this high need for for quality.
SPEAKER 03 :
Shirley will study the menu endlessly and then want what I ordered.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, there’s that, too. I just want him to order something I didn’t order that I also wish I could have so I could taste it.
SPEAKER 03 :
Now, tell me… Does the test tell people where they are on those four fear factors? Yeah. Does it come back with a score?
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah. So if they go online and they punch this code in and take this test, 10 minutes, the Love Talk indicator, it’ll give them a printout of several pages on where they are. Very specifically on each of those four, there’s over 19,000 different combinations when you look at the high, medium, low combinations.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, it’s not just some cookie cutter, you know, formula. My highest need is for approval. That’s when I feel the safest. But I have a high need for loyalty, too. And so when Les comes out of a study and says, hey, we’re going to Phoenix tomorrow, I react against that. But because my need for his approval is higher than my need for loyalty, it trumps it. And I often go along with experiences and changes I would never choose because I need that more.
SPEAKER 03 :
If you spent two hours getting dinner ready and got a new recipe and really went after it and set the table very nicely and all that you do, and Les came home and ate it and then said, thanks, babe, this was a good meal, and then went off to do some work, would you be hurt?
SPEAKER 01 :
I often say when he’s through with his dinner, so did you like it?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 01 :
Did you really like it?
SPEAKER 03 :
What you’re really saying is do you approve of what I did?
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, exactly. I approve. He’s sometimes afraid to compliment something I’m wearing because he’s afraid I might keep it on for the next five days if he really likes it.
SPEAKER 04 :
She feeds off of that approval. But I’ll tell you what, once we got into this research and understood this, and I know that she’s hardwired for approval, man, I want to give that to her. Because I didn’t really know that before we did this research. And now that I know she’s hardwired for that, I look for ways to show her how much I, in quotes, approve of whatever it is that she’s trying to accomplish.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, that’s what’s so powerful about this. It also has made me extremely patient. You know, for someone who has a high need to be in control of his time, I used to find him blunt and even sometimes mean because he’d want to solve a problem so fast. I’d feel like, hey, you know, what’s going on here? Let’s connect, you know.
SPEAKER 04 :
And I’m trying to solve the problem to get it off of our plate so that we can love each other.
SPEAKER 01 :
Now I don’t take it so personally. I go, okay, this is about his time. It’s not about me.
SPEAKER 04 :
We have a friend who in Seattle, Chuck and Barbara, and he said that he was putting a Ritz cracker and a chunk of cheese on it in the microwave. And his wife walked by and just uttered one sentence. As she walked by, she said, that cheese is too big. Now, what he heard was, you big fat slob, I can’t believe you’re eating that much cheese. What she meant was that cheese is too big to melt evenly. Never entered her mind to make that kind of a judgment on him. But because his need is high for approval, that’s what he read into it.
SPEAKER 01 :
Because if you have a high need for approval, you’re tuned in to signs of disapproval.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, we’ve got a high need for time management here. Right. The title of the book, again, is Love Talk. Speak each other’s language like you never have before. Doctors, because they’re both doctors. Les and Leslie Parrott. And it’s fun talking to you guys. It always is. And you’re continuing to write, I know. And it’s a real pleasure to have you come here all the way from Seattle to be with us. And I… I think that a lot of people are going to find help in this book. Les and Leslie, I’ve known you for a long, long time. It is really good to have you back with us. Thanks, Doc.
SPEAKER 04 :
It’s so fun to be with you always. And I’m not going to call them fear factors for you. They’re safe dreams.
SPEAKER 03 :
Irritable characteristics. Yeah, that rolls off the tongue, doesn’t it? I guess, yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
It’s great to be with you. It’s a pleasure. Thank you.
SPEAKER 02 :
You know, true intimacy in marriage actually grows when couples learn to speak each other’s love languages. Helpful insights from Drs. Les and Leslie Parrott today here on Family Talk. They’ve been Dr. Dobson’s guests here on the program. And if you missed any portion of today’s broadcast or if you’d like to share it with a friend, maybe even your spouse, you can access the complete program online at drjamesdobson.org forward slash family talk or by downloading the JDFI mobile app. You’ll find a link there to the Parrot’s book, which served as the basis for today’s conversation. It’s titled Love Talk. Speak each other’s language like you never have before. And by the way, when you download the free JDFI mobile app, it’s the perfect companion for strengthening your marriage and parenting journey. Access the latest Family Talk broadcasts, parenting tips from Dr. Dobson and other experts, and biblically sound marriage advice, all at your fingertips. The newest version even lets you personalize your content, save favorites, and stay informed on policy issues that affect your family. Simply search for Dr. James Dobson in your app store and download this powerful resource today. Here at the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute, we are dedicated to strengthening marriages through biblical principles and practical wisdom. Since 2010, this ministry has been a beacon of hope for families navigating life changes. And this year we are celebrating our 15th anniversary of ministry. Wow, the time goes by quickly. Every day here at Family Talk and the James Dobson Family Institute, we hear from listeners whose marriages have been transformed through these broadcasts. Your partnership makes that all possible. When you support the JDFI, you play an essential role in bringing biblical truth to millions of homes during a time when godly wisdom is needed now more than ever before. Your gift today of any amount will help us continue broadcasting messages that strengthen marriages all across the country and all around the world. You can make a secure donation online at drjamesdobson.org. You can give a gift over the phone when you call 877-732-6825. That’s 877-732-6825. Or if it’s easier, send your donation through the U.S. Postal Service. Our ministry mailing address is drjamesdobsonsfamilytalk.org. P.O. Box 39000 Colorado Springs, Colorado. The zip code 80949. Again, that’s P.O. Box 39000 Colorado Springs, Colorado 80949. Well, I’m Roger Marsh, and on behalf of Dr. Dobson and all of us here at the JDFI, we are so glad you spent some time with us today. Be sure to join us again next time right here for another edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, the voice you trust for the family you love. This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.
SPEAKER 03 :
Hello, everyone. This is James Dobson inviting you to join us for our next edition of Family Talk. Every day we come to these microphones with someone in mind, whether it’s a busy mom looking for tips on discipline or a husband who wants to learn more about connecting with his wife. We want to put an arm around your family in any way that we can. So join us next time for Family Talk, won’t you?
Join Dr. Dobson for a heartfelt discussion with the Parrotts as they share their insights on overcoming communication hurdles. Our hosts examine the underlying needs that drive communication patterns and introduce the innovative Love Talk Indicator. Learn about the ‘fear factors’ – Time, Approval, Loyalty, and Quality – and how they influence how we speak to our spouses. This episode offers powerful tools for transforming how couples converse, ensuring that love is both expressed and received effectively.
