Discover the movement that defies time. James Dobson hosts Pastor Dan Fisher to explore the revolutionary spirit of the 18th-century clergy known as the Black Robed Regiment. Behind the signing of the Declaration of Independence were voices of courage and faith, guiding their congregations not only in matters of God but also leading them in their fight for freedom. As Fisher calls for contemporary pastors to reclaim this legacy, uncover the lessons of courage, conviction, and the powerful influence of spiritual leadership in shaping a nation.
You’re listening to Family Talk, the radio broadcasting division of the James Dobson Family Institute. I am that James Dobson, and I’m so pleased that you’ve joined us today.
SPEAKER 01 :
Welcome to Family Talk, the broadcast ministry of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute. I’m Roger Marsh. Just a few days ago, we celebrated Independence Day here in the U.S., that historic moment when the Second Continental Congress formally adopted the Declaration of Independence, officially severing our nation’s ties to Great Britain and King George III. But did you know that behind this historic moment were courageous pastors who risked everything for freedom? On today’s edition of Family Talk, we’re bringing you a powerful conversation featuring Dr. James Dobson and Pastor Dan Fisher about the brave clergy who became known as the Black Robed Regiment. Now, these weren’t soldiers in the traditional sense. They were pastors who preached boldly about liberty from their pulpits, who recruited men from their congregations, and many even led them into battle against the British. The enemy feared these ministers so much that they labeled them Public Enemy No. 1. Pastor Dan Fisher has written a compelling book called Bringing Back the Black-Robed Regiment, and he believes it’s time for today’s pastors to reclaim that same bold courage. As a former Oklahoma State representative and current pastor of LifePoint Bible Church in Oklahoma City, Dan knows firsthand the challenges facing church leaders today. So here now is Dr. James Dobson to introduce Pastor Dan Fisher on today’s edition of Family Talk.
SPEAKER 02 :
I’ve invited a pastor to be with us today. He is Dan Fisher, and he’s part of a movement called the Black Robed Regiment Movement. You’re going to learn more about that if you haven’t already heard. And he is an authority on the history of our country. He doesn’t call himself that, but I think he is, and how Christian leaders played a major role in in the Revolutionary War. In fact, Dan Fisher has written a powerful book that I have here with me. It’s on the subject that I think every American should read. It’s called, appropriately enough, Bringing Back the Black Robed Regiment, How the 18th Century Church Stood for Liberty and Why it Must Do So Again. Dan is a former member of the Oklahoma House of Representatives. I think, Dan, didn’t you serve three terms? Two terms. Two terms. And he’s a senior pastor of Liberty Church in Yukon, Oklahoma. In fact, Pastor, you helped found that Liberty Church.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I’d been the pastor of one church for 23 years. And just because of a number of circumstances, we felt it important to begin to create a church model where pastors are not afraid to preach the whole counsel of God. Today, pastors are censoring themselves in the pulpit, as you well know. Because of it, we’re suffering. And so we’re hoping to maybe build a prototype church where you can preach on all of these issues, not fear the government, not fear criticism, but So our hope is to do that, of course, to preach the gospel and to reach people. That’s the ultimate purpose, but to preach the whole truth.
SPEAKER 02 :
I hope you get that across because there are many pastors who are afraid that the IRS is going to come shut them down. You know, there’s never been a church that the IRS has closed down. Never, and yet pastors give that as an excuse for not preaching on the issues. I don’t think they ought to tell people how to vote. And I understand other pastors not wanting to do that. But there is so much that’s hanging in the balance, and people really need to be involved. Oh, yes, sir.
SPEAKER 03 :
In fact, in 2008, the Alliance Defending Freedom started the Pulpit Freedom Initiative. And I was one of the original 33 pastors across the country. We talked about it here for several years. And it was my honor to do so. And our point was to challenge the Johnson Amendment that we believe is very unconstitutional, passed in 1954. And we’ve been a part of that every year since. Pastors are fearful for no reason. The IRS has done nothing. Now, Dr. Dobson, I do believe if we continue to be silent, the IRS will eventually be emboldened enough. They will. They will come after us. No question about it. Silence is going to create the environment for them to –
SPEAKER 02 :
Use the power of the law. And as I mentioned, they’re going to put pressure on parents to raise their kids according to political correctness.
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, Richard Land used to say, if we’re all willing to go to jail, none of us will have to. And we’re going to have to stand. It’s time for pastors. But out of all the people, Dr. Dobson, in the country. that ought to be willing to stand. It ought to be pastors who have given their lives to the truth and to liberty and enjoy the privilege of being able to stand before their congregations.
SPEAKER 02 :
I hope I don’t irritate people with what I’m about to say, but that fear of the IRS is largely a subterfuge. They’re really afraid that their parishioners will leave or won’t give. Or will not help them build the next building or whatever. It’s really an entrepreneurial thing.
SPEAKER 03 :
I totally agree. In fact, in 2014, George Barna did a very intense and involved study on that very subject. And the top two reasons that pastors said that they’re not going to touch these social issues, even though 97% of those pastors agreed the Bible speaks out boldly on all of these things, the top two reasons were they were afraid it would hurt their attendance. And number two, it would hurt the size of their offerings.
SPEAKER 02 :
And those are official findings. That’s a sad commentary, really, because the country, pardon my language, the country’s going to hell. It is. It really is. We’re in worse shape now than we have ever been, at least in my lifetime. I’m sure the Civil War was a horrible time, and perhaps this is not on that scale, but we’ve really forgotten God. That’s dangerous.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, it’s incredibly dangerous. Pastors have become CEOs of religious organizations instead of prophets of God. There’s a real difference. Jesus talked about the true shepherds and then the hirelings. And I’m not thinking of any one pastor, and I’m not trying to be condemning. I am a pastor myself, have been most of my life. But pastors have now become hirelings. They’re just afraid of their job and the prestige and the size of their congregations. And the truth has been swept aside. And now we’re, of course, as you said, we’re suffering from it. Are you willing to talk about abortion? Oh, yes. I did Sunday before last. Oh, yes, sir. I call it murder from the pulpit.
SPEAKER 02 :
Does your congregation get up and walk out? No, they do not. In fact, they applaud. See, that’s what I believe people are waiting for. Oh, I agree. You know, and they go to the churches where the pastor will do that. Yes.
SPEAKER 03 :
I had a lady come to me not long ago when I was speaking at an event. She was crying, so she shared her heart with me. She said, what do I do? My pastor last week got in the pulpit and said that because same-sex marriage has become a political issue, I can’t preach on it anymore because I can’t preach politics. Oh. Who took control of that issue? That’s in the Scripture. That’s a moral issue. In fact, I challenge anyone to show me very many ills in our culture that are not moral and biblical issues, not political.
SPEAKER 02 :
They’ve just simply been co-opted by the politically correct group. What will you do if speaking on Jesus becomes politically incorrect?
SPEAKER 03 :
Exactly.
SPEAKER 02 :
I guess these pastors will be quiet.
SPEAKER 03 :
I guess. I don’t know. How far do you take that? Well, I guess you take it all the way to where you’re not willing to be put in any kind of discomfort. You don’t want your standard of living to be challenged, and you want a large congregation. We all want our churches to grow. Certainly, the Lord told us to take the Word into the whole world. But this idea that our number one mission is to build a large church is not found in Scripture. In fact, Jesus said He would build His church, not the pastor. It’s His church, and He said, ìI will build my church.î
SPEAKER 02 :
Jesus began speaking and a crowd of 5,000 got up and left. And he turned to his disciples and said, would you go too? Yeah. That’s the attitude toward church growth. Exactly right. I mean, if you preach the gospel, they will come. Yes. To quote a movie from a long time ago.
SPEAKER 03 :
They will indeed. They are dying to hear it. You know, this dear lady said, do you know where there’s a black regiment pastor in my area? I’ll go there. And I said, you should. You should leave that church.
SPEAKER 02 :
Go to one where they do preach the truth. That transitions into what we’re here to talk about. What is the black robe movement? Where did it come from?
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, that’s a wonderful question. Dr. Dobson, there were pastors that were pretty much birthed out of the First Great Awakening. Now, many of those pastors were still around when the Declaration was signed, but many of these guys were young in those early days of the Great Awakening. In the 1760s and 70s, they could see the stranglehold that the British had on the colonies beginning to greatly tighten. You know, we hear this business of taxation and taxation without representation. That wasn’t the issue. That was not the issue. It was a symptom, but there was something deeper, and the deeper issue was tyranny. These pastors began to preach from their pulpits what just government is, what tyranny is, the responsibility of Christians to stand for truth, to defend the innocent, to defend justice, because they saw what was coming. So once the declaration is signed and the war begins, these very pastors… Many of them recruited the men from their churches. We’ll probably talk about some of those later. And then from their area where their church was, they recruited those men and led them off as their chaplains and many of them their commanders and fought on distant battlefields for those truths. The British so feared these pastors. that they called them the Black Regiment. So it was not the pastors who chose that name for themselves. No, it was the British.
SPEAKER 02 :
I never knew that.
SPEAKER 03 :
It was the British that called them that, and it was intended to be a term of derision. They were making fun. Because, see, all of these pastors, it didn’t matter whether you were Baptist, Presbyterian, practically all of those pastors every Sunday preached in black robes. That was the style. And they wore these white scarves called preaching bands, and they would wear these. And so the British knew that it was the pastors that were fanning the flames, so they made them public enemy number one, and they singled them out as the Black Regiment. Now, they weren’t ever an official regiment. There was not a regiment of preachers going around, you know. But they were called that because they were doing a better job of raising troops for the revolution than the actual recruiters for the Continental Army. These pastors were on the edge. What kind of pressure did the British put on them? Well, they put so much pressure that some of the pastors were literally murdered on the battlefield while trying to surrender. We might get to one of those stories in a little while. Other times the pastors were thrown onto prison ships. which were just a terrible, terrible thing. The highest death rate on those prison ships was among the preachers. The British really singled them out. So these pastors knew. In fact, in my book, I quote some of the pastors saying that they knew if they were ever captured by the British, they would be hanged or bayoneted to death or thrown on one of these prison ships. It was a really scary, terrifying thing to do what they were doing there.
SPEAKER 02 :
Were they being told what to preach on before the Black Robe Regiment came? What kind of pressure was put on them as pastors?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, there was a lot, because remember that the king of England was not only the king, he was the head of the Church of England, the Anglican Church. And so his desire would have been to make the Anglican Church the church of the colonies. Now, the Anglican Church was the church of Virginia. Peter Muhlenberg, that we’ll talk about probably later, one of the quintessential black regiment guys, was a Lutheran by heritage, but he had to go to Europe and be ordained as an Anglican preacher to pastor his church in Virginia because Virginia was Anglican. But the king wanted all of the colonies to be Anglican, and the pastors knew that if they didn’t speak up, they would eventually be forced into Anglican service, whether it was against their convictions or not, For them, Dr. Dobson, it was not just liberty. It was religious liberty that they were so concerned about. Boy, does that ring a bell today. Doesn’t it? Yeah.
SPEAKER 02 :
It’s the issue of our hour. Yeah. So was it, as I understand it, that the pastors were put under this pressure and were uneasy because they were being told what to preach? But it was not until the British really began to do that, began to interfere with their interpretation of Scripture that that the pastor said, I can’t take this.
SPEAKER 03 :
I can’t do this. I would say that the pastors were never actually forced what to preach, but they saw that coming. See, just like today, you and I were just mentioning, we can see a day in the future, if things don’t change, where the IRS is going to come down on churches. Well, these black regiment guys saw this coming. They knew this was headed their way. They knew it. Now, you’ve got to remember, in 1770 America, the colonies, the church was the hub of the culture. Now, not everyone in America was a Christian. Not everyone was a church attender. But the church was the hub of the culture. The pastor was a key individual. Many of those pastors were serving in government already. You take, for instance, Peter Muhlenberg that I mentioned, the Lutheran in Woodstock, Virginia. He was a member of the Virginia House of Burgesses. He served there with George Washington and Patrick Henry. See, these pastors were already engaged. So they knew that if they didn’t take care of business, they were going to have things force fed.
SPEAKER 02 :
So finally, they got to the point where they stripped off those black robes and they had some of them had uniforms, military uniforms underneath.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, sir. In fact, Peter Muhlenberg, as an example, his nephew, Henry Augustus, is his great nephew. in 1849, writes about the event that happened that I just call the Muhlenberg Robe Moment.
SPEAKER 02 :
Now, you’ve mentioned him three or four times.
SPEAKER 03 :
Tell us why he’s singing it again. Well, Peter Muhlenberg came from an illustrious Lutheran family. His father, Henry, had helped found the Lutheran Church in Pennsylvania. Peter Muhlenberg goes down into Virginia. Peter had had a little bit of a rough past as a young man. He had a very fiery temper. He’d gone to Europe, been involved in fighting with the dragoons and all this, but he couldn’t escape the call to ministry. He goes back, settles in Virginia, wants to pastor a church. Well, you’ve got to be Anglican. He’s Lutheran. So he goes to Europe, is ordained as an Anglican, goes back, pastors a little church in a frontier town called Woodstock, Virginia. I was there just last week. And he pastors this little church. It would have been an Episcopal church, which is the American version of the Anglican church. But in his heart, he was Lutheran. So this is Peter Muhlenberg. He’s also a member of the Virginia House of Burgesses until King George shut it down because he saw sedition coming, as he would have called it. Well, George Washington and Patrick Henry had a hand in recommending Peter Muhlenberg, the preacher, to be commissioned as a colonel to raise the 8th Virginia Regiment, which would be going to be a cavalry unit. So on January the 21st, 1776, Peter Muhlenberg preaches his final sermon in his church at Woodstock. He had announced it. The people were there. And as his nephew tells the story, when he’s finished with a relatively short sermon out of Ecclesiastes 3, there’s a time for all things. Muhlenberg faces his congregation after stepping off to the side, removing his robe. He’s wearing a colonel’s uniform. And he says, ladies and gentlemen, there’s a time to preach. There’s a time to pray. But there’s also a time to fight. And that time has now come. And he recruits the men of his church and of the Woodstock area to join the 3rd Virginia. Was that the beginning of the Black Robe Regiment, so to speak? I would say that that was close, but actually the Black Regiment was involved at Lexington. We can talk about Jonas Clark. Jonas Clark was the pastor of the church in Lexington, Massachusetts, where the first shots of the revolution are fired in his churchyard, by the way. A deacon named John Parker, they called him Captain Parker because he was a veteran of the French and Indian War, had been training the men of his church and of Lexington how to fight together as soldiers. All over New England, they were calling themselves the Minutemen. Now, who forgot to tell me that the famous Lexington Minutemen were trained and led by a pastor and a deacon? And when Paul Revere makes his famous ride the night of April the 18th, 1775, he rides to Pastor Clark’s house. Samuel Adams and John Hancock are spending the night with Pastor Jonas Clark. John Hancock’s grandfather had pastored that church years before. And the very next day, of course, he and Captain Parker lead the Lexington Minutemen out, and they face the British. So you can go all the way back to the very beginning of our War of Independence, and the preachers are there. And the church was there. The church was there. That afternoon at Concord, Pastor William Emerson was up on the hill overlooking the Old North Bridge. He’s the grandfather of Ralph Waldo Emerson. He’s standing there with the colonial militia telling them to stand their ground. If they’re going to die, let’s die here. And, of course, then they go down to the Old North Bridge and fight the British at the Battle of Concord. Mm-hmm. The afternoon after Jonas Clark’s men from his church had fought the same British at Lexington. The Black Regiment was there from the outset.
SPEAKER 02 :
Do you know that my grandfather, five times removed, I don’t even know how many times back, was Dr. Joseph Dobson. He immigrated from Britain, from London. And he was a physician in the Revolutionary War. And his son was captain of the horse guard in the Revolutionary War. And he and 73 of his men were killed. There’s a monument there. They’re all buried in a common grave there in North Carolina. I’d like to go see it. Oh, you need to do that.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, you need to. So, see, you have an illustrious history of liberty and family that stood for liberty.
SPEAKER 02 :
That’s right.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. Well, you see, Muhlenberg, if we go back to him, he serves all through the war, is promoted to major general, serves with George Washington, is at Valley Forge the winner of 77-78. His statue today is in Statuary Hall in our nation’s capital. And Peter Muhlenberg is in the painting of John Trumbull of the surrender ceremony of Cornwallis that hangs in the rotunda of our capital. No kidding. And that’s Peter Muhlenberg. He was a Lutheran preacher who had to become Anglican because he was in Virginia.
SPEAKER 02 :
And you can’t listen to David Barton for very long without knowing that Christians and Christian leaders were all over the founding of our country in the creation of the Constitution.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, sure. Dr. Doxman, you gave me greater accolades than I deserve, but in my research on the black regiment— I am convinced that had the church not done what it did, there would have never been a revolution, and I guarantee you there would have never been the America that we know today. It would have never existed. It was the church. Many of those founders that you mentioned recall back, and they actually tell us that. They tell us that it was the church that was the –
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, this brings us to the point of this entire program, and I’d like to talk to you again next time because there’s so many stories. The issues that are being discussed here are life and death and righteousness versus unrighteousness. Oh, that’s exactly right.
SPEAKER 03 :
You see, with our founders, this idea of compartmentalizing our lives into the sacred and the secular was foreign to them. They mixed the two because as believers, they saw the Bible influencing every area of life.
SPEAKER 02 :
Our time is gone. Let’s do it again tomorrow. Let’s do it. I’d be happy to.
SPEAKER 01 :
courage and conviction have always been the hallmarks of a faithful ministry. And that was especially true during the American Revolutionary War. You’ve been listening to a special edition of Family Talk featuring Dr. James Dobson’s inspiring conversation with Pastor Dan Fisher about the original Black Robed Regiment. Now, if you missed any portion of today’s broadcast, or if you’d like to share this remarkable story with someone who needs to hear it, go to drjamesdobson.org. And once you’re there, you’ll find not only the audio of the conversation, but also information about Dan Fisher’s book, Bringing Back the Black-Robed Regiment, which chronicles the heroic pastors who helped birth our nation. Again, you’ll find all that information at drjamesdobson.org forward slash family talk. That is, if you’re not there already. Here at the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute, we believe America’s strength has always come from her biblical foundation. And that’s why we’re committed to promoting respect for our nation’s founding principles and fighting for righteousness in our culture. Through our policy center, we are working to preserve religious freedom and defend the sanctity of human life, the very principles that made America exceptional. But we can’t do this work alone. These broadcasts are only made possible through the generous partnership of friends like you. If you believe in our mission and want to help us stand courageously for biblical truth, please partner with us to reach even more families across America. Every gift, no matter the size, truly does make a difference. You can make a secure donation over the phone when you call 877- 877-732-6825. That’s 877-732-6825. You can also send us a gift through the U.S. Postal Service. Dr. Dobson sees all of the mail that comes our way and loves to receive your notes, your cards, your letters, and of course your tax-deductible donations as well. You can write to us at Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, PO Box 39000, Colorado Springs, Colorado, the zip code 80949. Once again, our ministry mailing address is Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, or you can just write JDFI for short, PO Box 39000, Colorado Springs, Colorado, the zip code 80949. And for more great content, we encourage you to visit drjamesdobson.org and wander through our newly updated and expanded website. You’ll find Dr. Dobson’s trusted wisdom available to you online. You can access it on your computer, on your mobile device, even on your cell phone. Just go to drjamesdobson.org and check out the brand new and improved Dr. James Dobson Family Talk website. Well, I’m Roger Marsh, and on behalf of Dr. James Dobson and all of us here at Family Talk, we’re so glad that you joined us today and have been listening to our broadcast. Be sure to tune in again next time when Dr. Dobson and Pastor Dan Fisher continue their conversation about the remarkable men of God who helped forge our nation, known as the Black Robed Regiment. You will not want to miss it. It’s coming up right here on the next edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, the voice you trust for the family you love. This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute. With today’s Dr. Dobson Minute, here’s Dr. James Dobson.
SPEAKER 02 :
A tree planted in the middle of a rainforest is a beautiful thing to behold. But beneath the surface, its roots tend to be very shallow. Even a moderate wind can send it crashing to the earth. But contrast that with an old mesquite tree planted on the dry plains of Texas. Since it was a sapling, it’s lived in a hostile environment which forced it to drill its roots down deep in the earth in search of water. As a result, it can survive even the strongest winds. The same holds true for children. The ones who have learned to conquer their problems are typically stronger and more secure than those who have never had to face them. So our job as parents is not to shelter our kids from every trial and trouble, but to give them the tools they need to stand tough and tall during trying times. For more information, visit drdobsonminute.org.
