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In this compelling episode of Washington Watch, Tony Perkins dives into a significant development in the ongoing conflict between Russia and Ukraine. With Russian drones invading Polish airspace, Poland has activated NATO Article 4 for the first time, calling for urgent consultations. Learn more about NATO’s response and the potential implications for Europe and beyond. Later, we also delve into alarming statistics about the current state of American education, with insights from Congressman Burgess Owens.
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from the heart of our nation’s capital in washington dc bringing compelling interviews insightful analysis taking you beyond the headlines and sound bites into conversations with our nation’s leaders and newsmakers all from a biblical worldview washington watch with tony perkins starts now last night numerous drones from russia violated polish airspace
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Our air defenses were activated and successfully ensured the defense of NATO territory, as they are designed to do.
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That was NATO Secretary General Mark Ruthe responding to the Russian drone incursion into Polish airspace earlier today. Welcome to this September 10th edition of Washington Watch. I’m Tony Perkins, your host. Thanks for tuning in. Well, coming up, a major escalation today as Poland and NATO allies shot down multiple Russian drones that violated Polish airspace, marking the first time a NATO member has taken direct military action during Russia’s war in Ukraine. NATO Secretary General Mark Ruthe called the incident absolutely reckless and warned Moscow that the alliance is ready to defend every inch of its territory. Poland has now triggered emergency NATO consultations under Article 4. North Dakota Senator Kevin Cramer will join us to discuss the implications of this incident. Well, the latest report card by the National Center for Education Statistics exposes a sharp decline in American students’ performance, with 8th and 12th graders scoring near historic lows in math, reading and science. This report highlights the urgent need to restore high standards and parental involvement in the education of our children. I’ll be joined by Utah Congressman Burgess Owens later in the program. And last week, Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia sparked outrage after calling it, quote, very troubling to say our rights come from God, not government. Now he’s trying to walk it back. But do his comments reveal an effort to undermine our nation’s Christian heritage? University of Princeton Professor Robert George will join me later to break it down. We begin our program with the major escalation in the ongoing war in Ukraine. However, this time it has reached NATO airspace. For the first time since the conflict began, a NATO member has fired shots. Poland says it shot down multiple drones that entered its airspace during a massive Russian attack on Ukraine. And it wasn’t alone. Fighter jets from other NATO allies, including the Netherlands and Italy, were involved in the joint response. Polish Prime Minister called it the closest we’ve come to open conflict since World War II and has activated NATO’s Article 4, urging emergency consultation with its allies. Though Moscow denies the responsibility, saying the drones came from the direction of Ukraine, European leaders are calling for a strong, unified response. We go now to Washington Stand reporter Casey Harper, who has been following this very closely. Casey, this is a major development in the war between Russia and Ukraine. What more can you tell us about this incident and NATO’s response?
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Yeah, Tony, it is. Poland says 19 aerial objects violated its airspace during Russia’s massive overnight attack on Ukraine. Several of them were deemed a direct threat and shot down with the help of NATO assets. Dutch F-35s and Italian surveillance planes were involved in this operation. Thankfully, nobody was hurt, but one of the drones did crash in southeastern Poland, damaging a building and a nearby farm. Authorities placed three eastern regions of Poland on high alert and even shut down several airports temporarily. That includes one that’s been a major route for getting aid and officials into Ukraine. Tony, it’s worth noting that there are roughly 10,000 U.S. troops currently stationed in Poland. Most of them are part of a rotational deployment under the NATO-enhanced forward presence in Operation Atlantic Resolve. Now, the goal of this U.S. presence is to reinforce defense ties with Poland and act as a deterrent against Russian aggression. So, in the context of this drone incident, that footprint becomes especially significant, Tony.
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Well, Poland’s prime minister has taken the unusual step of invoking Article 4. What does that exactly mean?
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Yeah, Article 4 is very important. It allows any NATO member to request urgent consultations if they feel their security is being threatened. It’s not the same as Article 5, which is the mutual defense clause everyone knows about, but it does signal a very serious concern.
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Tonight, a large number of Russian drones violated Polish airspace. These drones which posed a direct threat, were shot down. We are most likely dealing with a large-scale provocation. But at the same time, we are in consultation with our allies. I am in constant contact with the NATO Secretary General. This is so that we can respond to this type of threat as effectively as we did tonight. This is the first time Russian drones have been shot down over the territory of a NATO country. Therefore, all our allies are taking the situation very seriously. We have not recorded any casualties.
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That clip was Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk expressing his concern about the incident. NATO Secretary-General Mark Rudy is in close contact with Polish leadership, and early indications suggest that the drone entries were likely intentional and not accidental.
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And how is the broader international community responding to this?
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Well, European leaders are pushing for coordinated sanctions, particularly on Russia’s shadow oil fleet. They’ve urged President Trump to step up with stronger measures. Now, there’s been no official word from Washington yet, except President Trump posting online, you know, well, basically, here we go, was his direct quote, kind of. a sort of wait and see, you know, this could get ugly kind of feeling. But the stakes here are clear, Tony. This could redefine NATO’s role in a conflict that so far they’ve tried to keep their distance from until now.
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Yeah, I think you’re absolutely right. In fact, I was talking with Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina earlier today, and he says what’s needed is the European leaders have to take action as it pertains to sanctions on that oil. Now let’s switch to the topic of education. It’s official and it’s not good news for America’s schools. The nation’s report card released this morning by the National Center for Education Statistics and the National Assessment of Educational Progress shows students are falling further behind in math, reading and science. Test scores for eighth and 12th graders are some of the lowest we’ve ever seen. And for a lot of parents, this just confirms what they’ve suspected for a long time, Casey. What’s going on here?
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Yeah, Tony, for the first time since the pandemic, we’re starting to get a look at this data at how students are doing, and it’s not a pretty picture, as you said. New national test scores released just yesterday show major declines from 2019 to 2024, say in science for eighth and 12th graders and in math and reading for high school seniors. Experts are pointing to the learning loss from the long school shutdowns and a lack of academic focus, but parents are pushing more for school choice, tougher standards, and more say on what’s being done in the classroom, Tony.
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Yeah, parents, I think, want results, not excuses. Before we move to our next story, I just want to inform our listeners and viewers about our work on the issue of life. Family Research Council, along with nearly 100 other pro-life organizations, in a letter led by the Susan B. Anthony Pro-Life America, is calling on Congress to take action. In a joint letter, we’re urging lawmakers to ensure that subsidies under the Affordable Care Act, which is also known as the Obamacare, aren’t used to fund elective abortions. Right now, the law bypasses key protections like the Hyde Amendment, which has long prevented taxpayer dollars from being used for abortion. With those subsidies set to expire soon, pro-life leaders are warning that without strong safeguards, hard-won progress could be at risk. So if protecting life matters to you, now is the time to speak up. Contact your members, your member of Congress and your senators. So I do want to thank all those who have weighed in on this. And thank you for preying on these issues. All right, I want to move now back to this topic of what has been happening in the Ukraine conflict as we were just talking with Casey about what has occurred there overnight. Joining us now to talk about this, Senator Kevin Cramer of North Dakota. He serves on four Senate committees, including the Armed Services Committee. Senator Cramer, welcome back to Washington Watch. Thanks for joining us today.
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My pleasure. Thank you, Tony.
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I just want to write to it your reaction to Russia’s latest actions actually penetrating airspace over a NATO ally.
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Well, Tony, as unfortunate as the incident is, was and is, hopefully it is the green light for us to get more aggressive with Russia. And what I mean by us, I mean the United States and our European allies. Starting with, and you referenced your conversation with Senator Graham earlier, starting with passing the secondary Russian sanctions bill, that has something like 85 or 86 co-sponsors in the United States Senate, put secondary sanctions on Europe as well as other places who have continued to do business with Russia. I believe that there’s no question in my mind, at least, that Vladimir Putin was provoking something. At the very least, he was testing the resolve of Europe. And Poland, of course, who has the most to lose by Russian aggression on Ukraine, other than Ukraine itself, was, I think, the wrong target. I just hope this is the moment that Europe joins us in the sanctions and then sends the strong message of Vladimir Putin, you’ve crossed the red line, Article 4 is important, But do not test our resolve with Article 5, which would be, of course, an assault directly on a NATO ally.
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Senator, I just want to underscore that with the secondary sanctions. We’re not advocating, and I say we, the United States, U.S. Senate, not advocating. advocating America getting involved in a war. We’re talking about using economic levers to stop this war. And China, India buying on the shadow market this Russian oil is what is fueling Putin’s war machine.
SPEAKER 19 :
No, that’s exactly right, Tony. So it fuels his war machine, but it also, by the way, locks out opportunities for the United States with our vast natural resources to be the provider of those same commodities to these friendly countries. So you’re exactly right. Obviously, Sanctions have been put on India with regard to its purchase of Russian oil, but not on China, not on other European nations. I just think we need to do this. And by the way, at a time when, as we await the Supreme Court’s decision-making on tariffs, things like that, where we don’t really know what authorities the president might have, I think this, passing this large bill, and it would pass the House just as easily as the Senate, and the president signing it into law, actually demonstrates to the world that this isn’t just a one-man show in the United States. This is the totality of the American government that is standing up to Vladimir Putin and Vladimir Putin’s aggression here. And we don’t need to wait for any Supreme Court to make a decision if we give the authority unambiguously to the president to issue sanctions and or tariffs on anybody that does business with Russia.
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Senator, just a little over a minute left. Final question for you on another international topic. Reports that the Hamas leaders that were being targeted in yesterday’s Israeli strike on Doha, Qatar, actually survived. What do you make of this latest move by Israel, and how will that affect the negotiations for a ceasefire?
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Well, it certainly didn’t help the negotiations, I don’t believe, Tony. And had they been successful in hitting the targeted audience, so to speak, probably we could say, well, it was worth the price. I just think the diplomatic setback could be a lot. However, Qatar says they’re still willing to sort of mediate this ceasefire. Qatar, as you know, is housing some of the Hamas leadership, which is why they were targeted. But I think it’s a moment to step back
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and let them diplomacy work work with qatar and and trust them a little more because i just think high ground is really important right now for israel and for israel’s allies senator kramer we’ll leave it there always great to have you on the program thanks so much for joining us thank you all right coming up senate minority leader chuck schumer took an unexpected procedural step on the senate floor today to force a vote on the epstein files Well, what’s next on that? We’re going to talk with Congresswoman Anna Paulina Luna. She is the chairwoman of the Task Force on the Declassification of Federal Secrets. And we’re going to get her take on this, so don’t go away.
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Three years ago, the Supreme Court issued its historic Dobbs decision, a ruling that overturned Roe versus Wade, which for nearly 50 years imposed abortion on demand, silencing voters and bypassing the democratic process across the country. The Dobbs decision was a huge step forward against abortion, but it didn’t outright ban it. It returned the power to the people. Now, 29 states have laws on the books protecting life. However, there’s a catch. Abortion numbers since Dobbs have actually gone up with an increase of 12% since 2020, climbing from 930,000 to over 1 million in each of the most recent years. So how can this be? The answer is simple, the abortion drug. Today, over 60% of U.S. abortions involve abortion drugs, many of these without medical oversight. In 2021, the Biden administration quietly removed bare minimum longstanding safety protocols for the abortion drug that have existed for 20 years to protect women from life-threatening risks and ensuring informed consent. The Biden DOJ then declared that they would not enforce the Comstock Act, which prevents the mailing of anything that causes an abortion. This is not only illegal, but also dangerous. A study shows nearly 11% of women who take the abortion drug end up in the emergency room with serious complications. Unless the Trump administration reverses these reckless Biden-era policies, pro-life laws will remain largely symbolic without a full review and repeal of Mifepristone. Unborn lives will remain in grave danger, and pregnant mothers will remain at risk. let’s stand for life and end this mail order abortion drug pipeline sign the petition urging the trump administration to take action at frc.org stop chemical abortion in the beginning was the word and the word was with god and the word was god and the word became flesh and dwelt among us and we have seen his glory
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Family Research Council invites you to join our Stand on the Word Bible reading plan as we reflect upon the life of Jesus, the Word who dwelt among us. Come with us and discover the glory of the Word. Read the Gospels and witness the life-changing story of Jesus, His life, death, and resurrection. Come read how Jesus transformed the lives of common people and how those same people transformed the known world through the power of the Holy Spirit. Come with us for 10 to 15 minutes a day and read the entire New Testament before the new year. Find our Bible reading plan in daily devotionals from Tony Perkins at frc.org slash Bible. Join us and stand on the word.
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Welcome back to Washington Watch. I’m your host, Tony Perkins. All right. We are pre-recording today’s program because I’m heading out to the West Coast. And as we were in the midst of taping, in fact, we were expecting to have Congresswoman Luna from Florida to talk about the Epstein files. We’re shifting gears because it just got word just a little bit ago that Charlie Kirk at an event out in Utah, University of Utah, was shot. Now, At this moment, the details are sketchy, but here’s a couple of things we do know. I got Pastor Jack Hibbs text me during the last segment informing me about that he’s been in contact with those at the event. And it’s a serious situation. We need to be praying for Charlie. His wife and children were there at the event. Joining me now with more on this, Casey Harper. Casey, obviously, is developing story, but this is becoming all too common.
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It is. It’s tragic news of more violence. It’s hard to keep up with the violent incidents. We don’t know too much now. We know there was a single shot fired. It hit near the neck. You know, there’s a big difference between shoulder and neck, obviously, in a shooting, and so that leaves some ambiguity. The latest that we have at this recording is his condition is unknown. He has been hospitalized. the suspected shooter has been taken into custody. As you said, he was speaking, as he has really got famous for, on college campuses. And I think it’s, to your point about it becoming common, it’s especially troubling because Charlie has in many ways become a, whether you like him or not or agree or not, a symbol of free speech and debate on really tense issues.
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He’s provocative. I mean, he pushes it. But there’s something that happened recently with Charlie in that the Southern Poverty Law Center put him onto their hate map, very similar to the Family Research Council. They put us on that. I mean, I guess we were the first ones on there. But shortly after they did that to us, we had a shooting here in our building in Washington, D.C. They refused to take us off of their list. And Charlie called them out, and others called them out. We did, too, when they put Charlie on that list, that… The Southern Poverty Law Center is enticing and inciting violence.
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Yeah, I mean, these liberal religious groups, they claim to be secular, but they have a real religious fervor behind their movement. You see that on the transgender issue. You see it on other things. It’s not just purely academic or ideas for them. It’s on the heart level. They’re very passionate. And so when you have groups that were once respected, like SPLC, and now I think have thrown much of that credibility away, but they really give license to, we have a lot of crazy people out there now, and that’s become evidence, and you give license to people to do things
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Well, and one thing that we saw in the last administration, the Biden administration gave lift to the Southern Poverty Law Center, the SPLC, by utilizing their material. They were part of the FBI going into the Catholic Church and trying to infiltrate the Catholic Church. So we have petitioned this administration to make very clear that the Southern Poverty Law Center has no business within the halls of government as a— official source or a source that any government entity would reference.
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Yeah, I mean, people who have been following them know this isn’t strike one, two, or three. This is strike seven or eight for SPLC.
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But again, as we are recording this about an hour and a half ahead of time, we do not know the current status of Charlie, but we know that he’s been hospitalized. We’re praying for him.
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A young father. It shouldn’t be this way. A young father, too.
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He actually just had. They just had their baby. Vice President J.D. Vance tweeted out something about that, that we should be praying for him.
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His wife and child were there when this occurred.
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So it’s traumatic. It’s tragic.
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We can disagree. And we can disagree, you know, aggressively disagree on ideas. And that’s what makes America strong. That’s what makes America vibrant. It’s what makes America different. But we cannot disagree. become a nation that resorts to violence to solve our differences. We will never survive if that’s what we resort to. And it has to be denounced on both sides. Physical violence has no place in American politics.
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That’s right. And especially for the church, because our war is not against flesh and blood. So when we start fighting in the physical, we’re actually on enemy territory. When we fight in the realm of preaching and ideas, it’s spiritual.
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Well, you know, Casey, that’s a really good point to bring up because when Jesus talks about murder, he talks about hatred in the heart. Because it begins with an idea. It begins with that hatred in one’s heart against another person or another group of people. We can disagree with people. I remember when I first came here to the Family Research Council 22 years ago, every week I was on MSNBC sitting across the table from Chris Matthews. We didn’t agree on anything. But we got along because we were human beings, and he was very cordial. We’ve got to get back to where we can have debates over issues, disagree, but at the end of the day, we’re not wanting to kill each other.
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That’s absolutely right. And what people don’t realize is that’s all on a Christian foundation, that they’re simultaneously eroding as they want to keep free speech, that we’re made in the image of God, Imago Dei. The reason that we should treat everyone with respect no matter what they believe is because they’re made in the image of God. And that foundational Western civilization principle is being lost.
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That’s a very important point, Casey, and I think that’s why we have to continue to advocate for and defend the Judeo, I’m gonna use the term Judeo-Christian concept ethic that this nation was founded on. It was founded on a Christian biblical perspective. People say that religion divides. It actually unifies when we’re willing to submit to God. And we’re all equal before Him. And I think part of the tension, part of this hostility that has come primarily from the left is a rejection of the notion of God. And so when we advocate that there is a higher authority, that there is God, it brings about this visceral and violent reaction.
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Yeah, religion divides. Religion, Christian religion in particular, is the only thing shown to unite peoples of all languages, nationalities across 2,000 years in different kingdoms.
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Well, as Paul said, You know, there in Christ, there’s neither Greek nor Jew, male nor female. We all stand equally before the throne of God. And I think we certainly cannot shrink back from advocating for that. But to go back to what you said just a moment ago as we wrap this up. As Christians, we must constantly be reminded that we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against the spiritual host of wickedness in heavenly places. Our mission. is to see those bound by those forces set free, and we do so by declaring truth. That’s absolutely right. Casey, thanks for stepping in. Folks, we’re going to continue with more Washington Watch on the other side of this break, but I do encourage you to continue to pray for Charlie Kirk and his family, and pray for our nation. I mean, really, every time we see one of these, we’re hoping it’s a wake-up call that we return to civility. So don’t go away. We’re back with more Washington White after this.
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Welcome back to Washington Watch. Thanks so much for tuning in. All right. Yesterday, the U.S. Department of Education released the latest scores from the National Assessment of Educational Progress. That’s the NAEP, also known as the nation’s report card. And the results, well, they’re sobering. Just 35 percent of high school seniors are proficient in reading. That’s the lowest score on record. And just 22% of high school seniors are proficient in math. That’s the lowest score since the current assessment began. Are our kids failing because the system is failing them? Joining me now to discuss not just the results of these tests and these scores, but the way forward is Congressman Burgess Owens, Vice Chair of the House Education and Workforce Committee. He represents the 4th Congressional District of Utah. Representative Owens, welcome back to Washington Watch. Always great to talk with you.
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Tony, looking forward to chatting with you, my friend. Absolutely.
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So since 1979, the U.S. Department of Education has spent over $3 trillion, and per-pupil spending has increased by more than 245%. I remember my days in the Louisiana legislature addressing this issue of how much we were spending per pupil, but yet the results have been declining. What do you say about this return on our investment?
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Well, it’s dismal. We have none. And that’s been on purpose. You have to keep in mind that we’re right. Our kids are failing. They’ve been failing for quite a while. I want to add one other statistic in there that I found out back in 2017. 75% of black boys in the state of California could not read and write at that time. We’re on track to make sure all our kids match those same numbers. And it means that the progressive left is succeeding. The idea of freedom comes down to you have to be able to think. You have to have critical thinking skills. You have to have confidence in yourself. You need to be able to read the scriptures and realize you really are special. And if you can’t do that and you can’t innovate, then you’re going to be very frustrated and at some point very angry and very, very, very tuned in to being emotionally manipulated.
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And dependent upon government. Exactly. So is this intentional? Is this intentional? Or is it a byproduct of a misguided system that’s been directed by liberals?
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Tony, I think that’s what we have to recognize. It’s a tough thing to ever get to the point we think that people can purposely make other people miserable. But that’s what the left does. Their goal is to make us dependent. And so, yes, everything that we’re now dealing with, you take a look at everything that we’re going through, that we’re trying to reshape. It’s been done on purpose. And thank goodness American people see it. And we have a president in place that loves our country enough that we’re going to write the ship for sure.
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Okay, Congressman, we’ve already taken some steps. I should say you have taken some steps. Congress has taken steps in the reconciliation bill, one of the first steps forward in bringing competition and opportunity into education. Talk about it.
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You just nailed it. You just said the two words, competition and meritocracy. The one thing we’ve never had those two words talked about in our society is with education. Only when we have competition and merit can we find the very best price and the very best service. And we’re finally bringing that to this process through a choice concept that does not take anything away from the local school system or districts. It allows many people like ourselves to invest in our kids, get tax credits, And parents can take from that funding and do anything they want to, whether it be public, private, parochial, homeschool. They can choose what they want based on what their kids really want, their excitement, their beliefs, and what they want to get done. They can support that through this process. So I’m excited about choice being codified. And we’re just going to start building on that from this point moving forward.
SPEAKER 07 :
Congressman Owens, you mentioned another word that the left does not like to include in education. You mentioned parents. They’ve excluded parents. One of the key components, I believe, and I believe you will agree with me, to writing the education, and I’m not saying, I’m saying education, and that’s all encompassing. It’s not just a public system. It’s a private system. It’s homeschooling. We need to be focused on those children in helping them succeed, whatever vehicle of education is required, and parents have to be a part of it.
SPEAKER 20 :
Well, the greatest threat for Marxists, Tony, is God and parents. They take away the power that Marxists think they should have, and they take on themselves. So, no, it’s exciting. The parents are finally waking up. I think COVID allowed us to see what was happening behind the curtains. So you have more parents engaged, more parents demanding success. And when studies like this come out, they realize that there’s something going wrong that they were not aware of. And now we have choice. We’re going to start to show how that works out. So they have ability to take their kids and put them in a place that works. And those failing school systems should go out of business.
SPEAKER 07 :
So do you see in the days ahead, as Congress moves forward, right now we’re in the appropriations process, do you see more authority and more of the emphasis being placed at the local level where states can, whether it’s block grants for the federal government, but letting the states determine the way forward in education within certain guidelines?
SPEAKER 20 :
Absolutely. And that’s actually what President Trump and the Secretary has been talking about from the very beginning. Take all that money, all this wasted dollars we’ve been putting, $3 trillion since the beginning of Department of Education, send that back to the states. Let parents, let these school systems that are accountable to them start figuring out how to make sure that their kids can compete. And I’d love to, in some kind of way, have a best-of-practice database so people across the country see which system is working best. so they can hold their states, their districts accountable to realize that there are ways of succeeding. They can actually match if they want to do that. So this is one of the best things that’s going to happen. We can do everything else right, Tony, without choice, without parents taking control and running the process. We’re going to lose. We’re going to rock from within. So I’m glad we’re finally moving in this direction.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, that’s a great idea as a resource for parents is letting them know which school districts are doing well. I mean, that’s something the Department of Education, their time and energy would be well spent doing that. Congressman Burgess Owens, always great to have you on the program. Thanks so much for joining us today. Thank you, Tony. Anytime. All the best, Brian. Folks, I just want to remind you again, I haven’t talked about education in a while, but ultimately it’s the parents. Scripture instructs us to train up our children the way they should go. That instruction is not the government. We can delegate the authority to educate our kids, but never the responsibility that falls to us as parents. All right, don’t go away. We’re back with more Washington Watch after this.
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Family Research Council is committed to advancing faith, family, and freedom from the East Coast to the West. So FRC is going to Southern California for this year’s Pray, Vote, Stand Summit, October 17th and 18th at Calvary Chapel Chino Hills. Join us for this powerful gathering of Christians desiring cultural renewal and spiritual revival. The Pray, Vote, Stand Summit brings together Christian leaders, issue experts, and government officials for a time of prayer, inspiration, and action. Together, we will seek God’s guidance for our nation and engage in meaningful discussions on the intersection of faith, government, and culture. If the spiritual foundations and the cultural walls of our nation are to be rebuilt, we all have a role to play. May we each find our place on the wall as we build for biblical truth. Register now at PrayVoteStand.org. That’s PrayVoteStand.org.
SPEAKER 21 :
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SPEAKER 12 :
How should Christians think about the thorny issues shaping our culture? How should Christians address deceitful ideas like transgenderism, critical theory, or assisted suicide? How can Christians navigate raising children in a broken culture, the war on gender roles, or rebuilding our once great nation? Outstanding is a podcast from The Washington Stand dedicated to these critical conversations. Outstanding seeks to tear down what our corrupt culture lifts up with an aim to take every thought and every idea captive to the obedience of Christ. Whether policies or partisan politics, whether conflict in America or conflict abroad, join us and our guests as we examine the headlines through the lens of Scripture and explore how Christians can faithfully exalt Christ in all of life follow outstanding on your favorite podcast app and look for new episodes each week
SPEAKER 07 :
Welcome back to Washington Watch. Thanks so much for joining us. All right. Coming up, October the 17th and 18th is the PrayVote Stand Summit. But this year it’s taking place on the West Coast. It’s going to be at Calvary Chapel Chino Hills in California. And if you register now and use the code FALL, that’s F-A-L-L, you’ll save $30 on your summit package. Now, this special discount offer is good through Friday, September the 12th. So to learn more or to register, visit PrayVoteStand.org. That’s PrayVoteStand.org. Our word for today comes from James 5. In verse 13, it says, Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms. James reminds us as believers that whatever our circumstances may be, sorrow or joy, our first response should be to turn to the Lord. to the Lord with prayer or praise. In verse 15, it says, Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the sick and the Lord will raise him up. Now, prayer is no idle pastime or placebo for the soul. It’s actually communication with the Creator. In verse 16, it says the effective fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. And James goes on to prove this with Elijah, a man just like us. He prayed and the heavens closed for three and a half years. He prayed again and the rain returned and the earth bore fruit. If God moves so mightily through one ordinary faithful man’s prayer, Imagine what he would do to a praying church. To find out more about our journey through the Bible, text BIBLE to 67742. Well, last week during a nomination hearing, former State Department official Riley Barnes, who’s been nominated by the Trump administration for a post at the State Department, Quoted comments made by Secretary of State Marco Rubio on how, quote, all men are created equal because our rights come from God, our creator, not from our laws, not from our governments, end quote. Well, one of the senators at the hearing, Democrat Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia, took issue with that calling, with that calling that statement very, very troubling.
SPEAKER 06 :
You state, and this is a quote from Secretary Rubio, our rights come from God, our creator, not from our laws, not from our government. I find that very, very troubling. The notion that rights don’t come from laws and don’t come from the government, but come from the creator, that’s what the Iranian government believes.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, since then, Senator Kaine has rightly received a great deal of pushback. And yesterday, in an op-ed appearing on the Fox News website, he was kind of like a cat in a sandbox trying to explain his way out of what he said. But did his clearly stated views in last week’s committee hearing expose the mission of the left? Remove God from the American equation. Joining me now to discuss this and more is Professor Robert George, McCormick Professor of Jurisprudence at Princeton University and Director of Princeton’s James Madison Program in American Ideals and Institutions. He’s also a former chair of the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom. Professor George, welcome back to Washington Watch. Thanks for joining me. Thank you, Tony. It’s a pleasure to be back on with you. All right. Was that a misstatement or was that exposing what the left is trying to do? And that is to remove God from the American equation.
SPEAKER 05 :
Both. He slipped on a banana peel, almost comically. He made a fool of himself. He ends up contradicting the foundational principle on which the country was founded, articulated, of course, in the Declaration of Independence. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, and among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Americans rely on that principle as assurance that our rights are real. They’re not merely conventional. They are, to use another famous word, natural, because they are gifts of the Creator. They are inscribed in our nature as human beings, created as we are by God. And because our rights come not from any merely human source, not from law, not from government, they cannot be legitimately taken away. by or violated by any merely human source. No law or government has the justified authority to take away our basic rights. That is as American a proposition as there is. You will not get a more American proposition than that. And for a United States senator to deny that proposition. And Tony, he denied it three times in his statement. He managed to deny it three times in less than three minutes. Yeah, I heard a rooster crowing. Simply to make a fool of himself. And of course, now he’s bouncing around and flopping around trying to talk his way out of it.
SPEAKER 07 :
The irony… The irony, in part, is that he’s from Virginia, where Thomas Jefferson, who was the one who wrote those words. But the founders understood that government, these rights, as you clearly articulated, they come from God. Therefore, they cannot be they’re not granted to us by government, can’t be taken by government. But government has a role to protect them. That’s the next sentence, Tony.
SPEAKER 05 :
That’s the next sentence. After all men are created equal, endowed by their creator, comes the sentence. And it is for the securing of these rights that governments are instituted among men.
SPEAKER 07 :
There we are. So if God didn’t give these rights to us and government granted to them, they don’t have to protect them because they own them. This is a very slippery slope.
SPEAKER 05 :
No, it’s a terrible statement. It’s an embarrassing statement by a United States senator. Senator Kaine is embarrassed. He should simply say, you know, sometimes you say dumb things. And I said a really dumb thing, and I’m sorry about it. That’s the only way out of this, Tony. Americans are very forgiving. You know, we are. But to get forgiveness, you’re going to have to admit that you really made a bumbling, stupid mistake and made a fool of yourself.
SPEAKER 07 :
But Professor George, he went further in equating this idea that rights come from God with the Taliban, with the Iranian regime. I mean, how can you even put those on the same plane?
SPEAKER 05 :
It’s foolish. He made a fool of himself. It’s embarrassing. I mean, even his fellow Democrats, even perhaps those who, in the secrecy of their own hearts, share his view, must have been cringing. I mean, this is as impolitic a statement as you can make.
SPEAKER 07 :
So here, let’s make some lemonade out of this political lemon. I think this is a great setup as we enter into the 250th anniversary of America, because I think in part, I think there’s a couple of things at play here. I think in part, this is the left kind of overplaying what they’ve been pushing for and kind of pushing God to the back. And this idea that America is an exceptional nation because of that fact that we recognize that our rights come from God and we recognize his principles. the biblical principles in the founding of this nation. But I also think it’s a product of our education system that has long left those things behind. This is an opportunity to rediscover them.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah. What American liberals in the, oh, roughly past 70 years have come to embrace is functionally a doctrine of the privatization of religion. that religion is a matter for the purely private sphere, at your home, around the dinner table, or on your knees at bedtime, or in the church, or in the synagogue, but not something that should have any role, any play, any purchase in public life. And the trouble with that is, again, it runs contrary to our founding principles, to our entire history. All the great reform movements of history, whether we’re talking about the abolition movement, whether we’re talking about the civil rights movement, whether we’re talking about the pro-life movement, all the great reform movements of our history have been inspired and inspired by biblical principles, by religious principles, and led by people of faith. I mean, the Reverend Martin Luther King was the Reverend Martin Luther King. The country has benefited time and time again from the fact that we allow people to come into the public square clothed with their religious convictions and commitments, and to vie on terms of equality with their fellow citizens for the allegiance of the public when it comes to issues that people care about. So this effort to drive religion to the margins, drive it off the stage, is inconsistent with American principles and with American history.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yes, but here’s what, when you look at the policies that are being pushed today by the left, it’s incompatible with a view that God is the grantor of rights. Because if you look at it that way, then if he’s the creator, he grants us rights, he sets the rules. And some of the rules that they’re trying to establish are totally contrary to not only science and biological reality, but certainly biblical truth.
SPEAKER 05 :
Oh, well, that’s certainly true. And that’s why principled, consistent liberals, Tony, object to the recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance in American public schools, because the Pledge of Allegiance includes those famous words from Lincoln, inserted into the Pledge in the 1950s, but from Lincoln, under God. Right. on the consistent principle liberal understanding of things, if they were actually being true to their principles, you could not recite in school that second sentence of the Declaration of Independence that declares that all of us are created equal and endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights. That would violate the principle of the privatization of religion. So liberalism has really just backed itself into a terrible corner here where it’s inconsistent with America’s founding principles and our traditions.
SPEAKER 07 :
But those founding principles are essential to the maintaining of this system and this form of government we have, because it doesn’t work without those.
SPEAKER 05 :
That’s absolutely right. The whole thing about America is that there are rights that are prior to government. There are pre-political principles of justice. The government doesn’t have complete control. There’s something higher to which the government is answerable. Again, if I can appeal to Martin Luther King in his famous letter from the Birmingham jail, he says, look, there are two types of law, just law and unjust law. What’s the difference between the two? King is very clear about this. And liberals tell us that they love Martin Luther King. They should listen to him. He says the difference between the two is that unjust laws are out of line with the natural law and the law of God. Just laws conform with the natural law and the law of God, the higher law to which mere human law, mere human policy, mere human government stands under judgment is answerable.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, and that wasn’t a concept new with him. It was a restatement of the early church fathers, as well as the founding fathers of our nation who understood and frankly understood Professor George, I think still, I still think in this country that many people want a recognition of God by our elected leaders. The polling shows that, that they want them to be accountable to a higher authority. I sure do.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, because I can’t watch them all the time. There’s nothing like him more than somebody who thinks he’s God. There’s nothing I fear more than some ruler exercising political power who thinks he is not under a superior judgment, that he’s not answerable to a higher power. I think most Americans feel the same way.
SPEAKER 07 :
So Professor George, I know that you’re doing your part because you have been producing from your work at Princeton many leaders who understand these founding principles. But this is something that parents need to talk about. I really think that this is an opportunity going into the 250th anniversary of this country to talk about these founding principles and have a revival of these principles.
SPEAKER 05 :
No question about it. This cannot be left to schools, whether they’re public schools or private schools, whether they’re Christian schools or nonsectarian schools. The schools should be doing their part, but their role really is to support the more fundamental work, the prior work of parents, and not just parents, not just mom and dad, but also grandma and grandpa. and auntie and uncle, and pastor and teacher and coach and so forth. It’s what Edmund Burke called the little platoons of civil society. Those non-governmental institutions, beginning with the family, that have the primary role in inculcating what we call civic virtue, the virtues you need to be good, loyal, effective Republican citizens, Republican now with a small r, that is citizens of a democratic republic, who can then, Tony, transmit to the next generation, their children, and then on to the next generation, those virtues so that this grand experiment bequeathed to us by George Washington and Alexander Hamilton and Thomas Jefferson and John Adams and Alexander Hamilton can continue. It can only continue with citizens who possess civic virtue.
SPEAKER 07 :
Right. And you have to know where it all started from. Exactly right.
SPEAKER 05 :
And where it all starts from is that core insight that all men are created equal, endowed by their Creator. Now, we can ask a question now. How is it that the American founders came to say such a profound thing? I mean, did it just drop out of the sky? Well, no, they were able to say such a profound thing because they had a prior belief. And that belief was that human beings, though mere dust of the earth, mere mortal stuff, are nevertheless creatures that are fashioned in the very image and likeness of the divine creator and ruler of all that is. the image of God, the imago dei. That’s the religious principle that is the substructure on which that principle articulated in the Declaration of Independence stands, Tony.
SPEAKER 07 :
And it doesn’t work without it. It doesn’t work. John Adams said, our laws are made for a moral and a religious people. They are wholly inadequate for the government of any other. You have quoted him perfectly. If we lose that understanding of God and what he’s given us, the system implodes on itself. That’s right.
SPEAKER 05 :
It doesn’t work. I mean, if it’s relegated to the status of a noble lie, pretty soon it won’t be believed because people, at the end of the day, will not believe what they believe to be lies, no matter how noble they think the lie is. And then we’re back to a situation where we have no protection against a strongman, against a ruler, against a despot, against a tyrant who says, I’m the ultimate authority. There’s nothing higher than me.
SPEAKER 07 :
Professor George, we’re out of time, so I’m going to have to ring the bell and let class out. But I’m sure we’re going to have some more conversations as we move into the celebration of America’s 250th anniversary. Always great to see you, my friend.
SPEAKER 05 :
Love to talk with you, Tony. Look forward to the next occasion.
SPEAKER 07 :
All right. Folks, thanks for joining us today. And until next time, I leave you with the encouraging words of the Apostle Paul, who says you’ve done everything you could do and you’ve prayed, prepared and taken your stand. By all means, keep standing.
SPEAKER 18 :
Washington Watch with Tony Perkins is brought to you by Family Research Council and is entirely listener supported. Portions of the show discussing candidates are brought to you by Family Research Council Action. For more information on anything you heard today or to find out how you can partner with us in our ongoing efforts to promote faith, family and freedom, visit Tony Perkins dot com.
