Join Dr. James Dobson as he revisits a profound conversation with the late Charlie Kirk, where they discuss the challenges and triumphs of standing for truth in hostile environments. Listen as they address the importance of engaging the younger generation with timeless principles and the sobering realities Charlie faced on college campuses. This episode offers a poignant reminder of the spiritual battles we endure and the courage required to uphold our beliefs.
Welcome, everyone, to Family Talk. It’s a ministry of the James Dobson Family Institute supported by listeners just like you. I’m Dr. James Dobson, and I’m thrilled that you’ve joined us.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, thank you for joining us for Family Talk, the broadcast division of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute. I’m Roger Marsh, and on today’s program, we are revisiting a powerful conversation featuring our founder, Dr. James Dobson, and the late Charlie Kirk, founder and president of Turning Point USA. We’ll be right back. In the conversation you’re about to hear, you’ll hear Charlie’s heart for reaching the next generation, his willingness to wade into hostile territory on college campuses, his passion for sharing the gospel, and his conviction that revival is America’s only hope. You’ll hear Dr. Dobson and Charlie Kirk discuss the courage it takes to speak truth in a culture that often punishes it, and why engaging young people with timeless principles has never been more critical. Now, the conversation you’re about to hear was recorded at a special event here in Colorado Springs just a couple of years ago. And there’s a moment in the program when Dr. Dobson and Charlie Kirk discussed the dangers he faced on college campuses, the security concerns, the threats, and the very real hostility he encountered simply for speaking the truth. At the time, it was just part of the conversation, even a laughing matter of sorts. But listening back now, knowing how Charlie’s life ended with one shot from an assassin’s rifle, those words now carry a weight that we never could have anticipated. It’s a sobering reminder of the spiritual battle that we’re all facing. And today is a day that the United States Senate has declared Charlie Kirk Remembrance Day on what would have been his 32nd birthday. So now, let’s listen in as Dr. James Dobson talks with Charlie Kirk on this special edition of Family Talk.
SPEAKER 03 :
Charlie, you set my soul on fire. If every pastor in America… could hear your message and buy into it and repeat it. Churches couldn’t hold the number of people that would come. They’re waiting for somebody who believes what they say and put their money where their mouth is. We were talking at lunch today that you have regularly gone to Cal Berkeley of all places and you came out alive. That’s right. Where do you get the guts to do that?
SPEAKER 01 :
So I grew up in Chicago, which is… You know, the fun thing about being from Illinois as a sidebar is we have term limits. That’s one term in office, one term in jail for all of our leaders. But look, I’m a Scot, and it’s kind of in my blood to love a good fight. And I’ll be honest, yeah, Berkeley gets lively, and Victor was there and helped on our security detail. And there were some people, I think, that wanted me dead. Would that be fair, Victor, to say? Yep. But Victor ministered to them and had… He did. And he really, there were some demons that needed to be confronted there. But look, I I really take my faith seriously. At least for me, I know how the story ends. And we’re not called to be foolish, so of course I go with the right protection and stuff to Berkeley and all this stuff. But I’m also just not comfortable only talking to people that agree with me all the time. I find such invigoration and excitement and energy to go to places where not a soul agrees with me. That is the coolest thing in the world. No, I mean that. And that’s what we are, the speaking beings, right? We’re made in the image of God. In the beginning was the Word, the Word was God, and the Word became flesh. The other way we talk about the creation story is God spoke things into existence. So our ability to speak the common noun miracle, to have rational speech, is all that keeps us from the beasts of the barbarians of the past. And so if we can’t go to Berkeley and have a conversation, then we’re done. So I enjoy it.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, we hear about these rallies that take place to try to keep people like you from coming in there. And some of them get very threatening.
SPEAKER 02 :
That’s right.
SPEAKER 03 :
How do you manage to get the right to speak there and do things like you just said, where you talked about the transgender nonsense and took it on? What do these radicals do when you do that?
SPEAKER 01 :
I mean, some of them act as if there is such a clear demonic element, screaming, you know, breaking stuff and windows and all of that. And I mean, look, I’m very outspoken on the trans thing. I mean, I call it the alphabet mafia that comes after you to try to destroy your life. This is a cartel of a regime that is trying to destroy gender norms. I go as far to say that if someone is thinking that they’re transgender or that they are participating in an equivalent of gender blackface, that they are trying to pretend something that they are not to appropriate an identity to try to blur right and wrong, just to give you an idea of just kind of a flavor of how blunt I am on these campuses. And most kids are kind of in shock and in silence when I say this, but honestly, A lot of kids that will find that to be oppositional. We have a way we run our events, and anyone who’s been at a Turning Point USA campus event will tell you that we do this every time. If you disagree, you get to ask the first question, you go to the front of the line, and you get the mic for a minute and tell me why you disagree, and then we’re going to have a conversation. And it always goes well for me.
SPEAKER 03 :
Tell me if… the students on these radical campuses really do want to hear the truth. Is there really a hunger for the gospel that just isn’t finding expression?
SPEAKER 01 :
Somewhat. Look, there’s a great quote where it’s not about the conversions, about the conversations, right? So some of these kids have never been exposed at all to our metaphysical belief, right? To what we believe and why we believe it. But they certainly think they know. things about Christianity. I mean, a common one that you’ll hear is that more people have died because of Christianity than out of the belief system, a complete and total fallacious lie from the enemy. When I say I set up a table, I just want you all to understand how intimate this entire kind of experience is. I will sit in a chair like this on the college campus in the middle of the quad, and set up a card table and anyone can come up and ask a question and we have security and stuff and it can get lively but that’s when you really get to get into the conversations after about twenty minutes after forty minutes either talking about abortion or politics always goes the same direction they’ll ask one question are you religious So yeah, of course I am. And they say, why? And of course, this is where the spiritual component starts to manifest itself, right? Because everything else is just a physical representation of that. And at least at Austin last week, while everything else was going along, 200 kids listening, you could hear a pin drop when I was sharing the gospel. I don’t know how impactful it was, right? But they were like, well, the Bible is just legendary documents that has never been proven true. And I mean, that’s just, you know, you might as well just do a softball pitch, right? For anyone that’s been through a basic apologetics course, right? There’s never been an archaeological discovery that has disproven the Bible. You know, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John is the most accurate historical documents ever in the history of the world with the most verification. And we can go through more, you know, incredible amount of depth there. There is more curiosity, doctor, than I think people realize. It doesn’t happen overnight, but what I have learned is that watering it down and pandering is the worst thing you can do. You have to be truthful and courageous, and you might even have someone be so offended by what you say, you just have to hold the line and do it in love. And here’s the coolest thing. Over a period of time, some of our Turning Point USA chapter leaders are former people on the left and former atheists. And they were turned at first hearing something that they found to be so outrageous and appalling. And then they thought about it and the Holy Spirit went to work. And next thing you know, they give their life to the Lord and they’re starting a turning point chapter and their whole life has changed.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s so encouraging to all of us. You were telling me at lunch too today, the number of students, young people that you’ve led to the Lord. Yes. What’s that number?
SPEAKER 01 :
So it’s an approximation, but it’s definitely in the thousands. And we only have been doing it really kind of these worship nights to kind of reinforce what we do here. And you guys are all welcome to our events. And the events are branded as a celebration of America, a celebration of liberty, where we all have pastors like Jack Kibbs and we’ll have speakers like Bob McEwen come. And then we have those worship nights. And then we have those worship services. And it will just bring tears to your eyes of these kids that are there for conservative ideas and values that are then committing their life to the Lord. I mean, I think Victor alone has brought three of our staff members to the Lord in the last 90 days. Is that about right, Victor?
SPEAKER 03 :
But I know that he’s another one that’s got the courage of his conviction.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, that’s why we get along so well. I got to tell you, because look, time is running thin, everybody. We don’t have time for gutless wonders. We just don’t. Right. I have no patience for them. Now is not the time for that. But, you know, doctor, it’s so incredible to see because it is the opposite what I was told by institutional Christianity. which is kind of institutional Christianity said, as always said, politics will turn people off. And that might be true in some homes and some communities. But when we have an event and there’s 10,000 young people there, 10,000 young people for conservative ideas to celebrate America, don’t believe me, come to Phoenix, December 17, 18, 19, 20, you’ll be blown away. And I would say half are Christian and maybe half of them are serious about their faith. But all of a sudden they start to realize that our speakers are all talking about God-given rights, talking about giving their life to the Lord, and they want some of what they’re hearing. And in some ways it’s this amazing ministry opportunity that I think we have never realized. But it starts with truth. It doesn’t start with pandering. It doesn’t start with all the kind of pizzazz that people say that you have to do. The truth is like a lion. Once you set it free, it’ll take care of itself.
SPEAKER 03 :
Where’d you get the vision to go with this in the beginning? And you had no way of knowing that you would have the reception that you’ve had. And yet you had this passion to tell the truth. That’s what’s most impressive about you. is that you waded into the den of lions fearlessly, or so it appears from here. Was there any kind of a revelation? How did the call come to do what you’re doing?
SPEAKER 01 :
Thank you, and for those kind words, doctor, it really means a lot. Look, when I was in high school, I wanted to go to West Point. Everyone in kind of my local community went to college, and some of you at lunch heard me tell this story before. Didn’t get into West Point, best thing that ever happened to me. Decided to take a gap year, turned into a gap decade. Still on my gap decade, by the way. And here’s what actually, the one thing, the way I could answer that question, where does it come from? I hate bullies. And I always have. And I’m not the guy that will sit idly by when an injustice unfolds. It’s just the way I’m wired. Some of you can resonate with that. Some of you might say, I don’t quite understand it. And so I just wasn’t the type of guy that was okay with watching an entire generation become increasingly left. and secular and in that direction. And so I started Turning Point USA, some great mentors, Bill Montgomery and Foster Freese were the two ones that really kind of got us started. Bill Montgomery, may he rest in peace, was literally a 72-year-old. I was 18. First thing he ever said to me after he heard me give a speech was, you shouldn’t go to college. And he was the first person ever in my life to say, you have a gift of speaking. Never heard it. But honestly, doctor, it always came back to my faith. It did. Is that my faith was the bedrock that gave me the why. But I want to speak a little bit about this though, because while I was always a Christian throughout the growth of Turning Point USA, if you go to the early speeches of Turning Point USA in 13, 14, 15, 16, and some people in the line were remarking on this and they’re totally right, which is, Charlie, I didn’t know you were a Christian. Because even I was raised in a church community where I was told, you do not talk about these two things together, ever. And it wasn’t until I met Pastor Rob McCoy at Liberty University, my now pastor, where he blew my mind. We had a four-hour conversation from 8 p.m. to 1 a.m. where he said, Charlie, everything you’re doing is about liberty, which is God’s idea, not man’s idea. You’re talking about truth. He said, the church is about that, what you’re doing on college campuses. He said, you should speak more openly about your faith. And it really challenged me to do that. And I’ll tell you what, when I made that decision, we had some group of turning point donors that said, Charlie, I hate the fact you’re doing more of this. I don’t like it. And we lost them. And honestly, but we have been blessed a hundred times, a thousand times. The more bold we’ve been about our faith, the more bold we’ve been about our convictions. And it’s been awesome. It really has.
SPEAKER 03 :
You are defending the underdog, aren’t you? You’re going into territory that others are afraid to, Mentioned, as you just said, I don’t want to sound self-serving here, but I have that same desire to reach out to those who are being oppressed. When I was five years old, Pearl Harbor occurred. And on our block there was a little Italian boy. They called him a dago. They made fun of him. They rejected him. My friends in the neighborhood gave him grief. And I left the safety of that larger group to be the only friend for that kid. I feel that same way about mothers at home and others who are being oppressed by the culture. And we really need to be bold in standing up for what we believe.
SPEAKER 01 :
Amen. That’s so beautiful. And let me also say, though, one of the reasons why our message is gaining in popularity is when I’ll go talk about how most American women should become mothers and be proud of that. all of a sudden you will see some girls, their eyes will open up in the audience and they will say, finally somebody says that out loud. You know they don’t hear that at all at a secular college. They are told nothing but career, wait till you get married. It just actually happens to be a majority of young women are asking for cultural permission to do what they really want to do, which is to go get married and have children. And I’m telling you, you get attacked from everyone when you say that. I don’t care. And I encourage you not to care because there’s actually this silent majority, this massive population of young people that are asking for somebody to give them permission to do what they’re actually wired by God to do.
SPEAKER 03 :
I was counseling a young woman. She was about 20 years of age. about her life and where she was going. And she said, can I tell you something honestly? I said, that’s why you’re here, do that. And she looked at me and said, I don’t want a career at all. I want to be a wife and mother. I said, Sally, why do you have to whisper it to me? And she said, are you kidding? She went to Cal, it wasn’t Berkeley, but she went to one of the California… universities. And she said, if my professors and even my friends knew that I wanted to do that, they would laugh me out of school. And I determined to do what I could to change that. It’s an uphill battle, but it’s part of the same thing, but it’s the truth, truth with a capital T. Charlie, where do you go from here? You hit a pinnacle. I mean, what you’ve been able to accomplish with God’s blessing and his direction. What is the future? What’s the next step and what he wants you to do?
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, thank you. I’m probably too hard on myself because to actually hear you say that is very touching because I always think I’m not doing enough and that we’re not pushing forward. So thank you for saying that. I love radio. I see it really growing. We’re on 12 to 3 every single day. honored to be in the rush slot on 145 stations across the country, and obviously podcasting as well, and also on Real America’s Voice. If any of you guys watch that, really great channel. And Salem has been just the best partner. You know what’s so great? I have to say, working with Salem and working with Real America’s Voice, them together, and Salem especially, I have never received a phone call after one of my spicier segments ever. Meaning like I could say what I want and proclaim truth and they always have my back. That’s a big deal, by the way, in media today. You don’t find that.
SPEAKER 03 :
I experienced the same thing.
SPEAKER 01 :
With Salem. They always have your back when you proclaim truth. And that’s a very rare thing. It really is. And so look, with Turning Point USA, on the high school and college side, as I said, we’re on pace to have a thousand high school chapters and our college chapter continuing. We really want to be able to have basically full court coverage, if you will, to get to 5,000 high school chapters. We think we can do that. It’s going to be incredibly ambitious. We’ve got a higher a lot more staff, but we think we can get that done. We have Turning Point Academy, which is growing like gangbusters with our partnership with Hillsdale College and many others, where we want to try to have 1,000 church hybrid micro schools across America to make homeschooling easier, but not necessarily homeschooling, but one or two days… of bridge schooling, you could say, pod schooling, and that’s taking off like gangbusters. And then my focus in the church is, I mean, I want to excommunicate the woke mind parasite from the American church. That’s my current obsession. It really is. That is trying to destroy the American family, trying to destroy inerrant theology. I think I’m probably better positioned than most to speak openly about it. And also, you know, we have TPUSA Faith. I think we’re one of the few organizations, and Dr. Dobson, I think you could be one of the others, that can get swinging from the chandelier Pentecostals and five-point Calvinists and Episcopalians all in the same room to agree that we need to do something about liberty and to destroy the woke.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s pretty graphic there, John.
SPEAKER 01 :
The swinging from the chandelier Pentecostals? Yeah. You should come to one of these churches I spoke at. That’s the least of what they’re doing. Snakes, they got the whole thing. That’s fine. It’s great. You know, they love, they want to do something about liberty. And so, but I’ll say, you know, we have all these theological differences, or not necessarily me, but all of them. And if I wasn’t in the room, they might be fighting about them. We have kind of a rule at TPSA Faith, which is if we do not get liberty right, then you’re all going to be having your theological disputes from prison. And so we have to have this be, you know, the body of Christ believing in the Nicene Creed, united for this idea of liberty in the American family. And so we got a lot of projects we’re doing, Doctor. We’re just getting started.
SPEAKER 03 :
I’m sure you agree that ultimately the hope for America is a nationwide or worldwide revival.
SPEAKER 01 :
The only hope.
SPEAKER 03 :
And that our prayer lives should focus on that because everything else Is good, but not the ultimate solution.
SPEAKER 01 :
It’s the only hope.
SPEAKER 03 :
Charlie, with your permission, we’re going to go straight to the radio program, including what we’re saying.
SPEAKER 01 :
Please do. I look forward to the mail from pastors.
SPEAKER 03 :
And I join. That’ll be something to go.
SPEAKER 01 :
Bring it on.
SPEAKER 03 :
Thank you for being our guest. Let me tell you what this man did. He flew here from Florida. today, flies back to Phoenix tomorrow. He did not have the time to be here tonight. He came because he felt like he should. And that’s what drives this man. And let’s give him a rousing appreciation.
SPEAKER 01 :
It’s a great honor. Thank you. Thank you, everybody.
SPEAKER 02 :
Charlie Kirk’s closing words captured the heart of his mission perfectly. He wasn’t waiting for permission to speak truth. He was creating space for a generation hungry to hear it. You’ve been listening to a special edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, featuring Dr. Dobson’s inspiring discussion with Charlie Kirk, founder and president of Turning Point USA. This is a discussion that was recorded right after Charlie addressed a group at our special gathering here in Colorado Springs just a couple of years ago. Today is October 14th. It would have been Charlie Kirk’s 32nd birthday. And the United States Senate has declared that this is Charlie Kirk Remembrance Day. So in honor of our great friend from Turning Point USA and Turning Point USA faith, we honor Charlie Kirk’s memory by sharing his conversation with Dr. Dobson today. Two great men of God who have gone on to glory and I’m sure had a wonderful reunion in heaven once both of them were finally safely there. Now, if you missed any part of today’s program, or if you’d like to share with a friend, simply visit drjamesdobson.org forward slash family talk. And then I want to extend an invitation to participate in something that’s very special to us here at the James Dobson Family Institute. Of course, though Dr. Dobson is now with the Lord, his ministry legacy lives on, and some special friends have given a remarkable gift, this historic opportunity providing matching funds now through December 31st, 2025, for up to $6 million in something called the Dr. James Dobson Memorial Matching Grant. This incredible memorial is a powerful statement of confidence in the only organization entrusted by Dr. Dobson to carry out his legacy successfully. and expand his work to new generations and geographies. So what does this mean for you? Well, first and foremost, it means that every dollar you donate will be doubled. And that places practical wisdom into the hands of homes of countless families for years to come. So whether you donate $50 or $500 or even $5,000, your generosity will go twice as far in strengthening marriages, equipping parents, defending religious freedom, and most importantly, sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ. Your generosity fuels the cause that Dr. Dobson devoted his life to. Together, we are honoring Dr. Dobson’s nearly five decades of faithful ministry, multiplying the mission he championed and creating a lasting legacy of faith that will echo through all generations. Now, to make your tax-deductible gift and have it doubled through the Memorial Matching Grant, go to drjamesdobson.org. That’s drjamesdobson.org. If you prefer, you can send your gift through the U.S. Postal Service. Our ministry mailing address is Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, P.O. Box 39000, Colorado Springs, Colorado, the zip code 80949. Once again, our ministry mailing address is JDFI or Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, P.O. Box 39000, Colorado Springs, Colorado, the zip code 80949. And in addition to a tax-deductible donation, why not include a note of encouragement for Mrs. Dobson and Danae and Ryan and the extended Dobson family as well? They really appreciate hearing from listeners like you and especially now during this very tender season of transition for our ministry. By the way, I should mention, if you’d prefer to handle the transaction over the phone, you can call a member of our constituent care team right now. That number is 877-732-6825. That’s 877-732-6825. Well, I’m Roger Marsh, and on behalf of all of us here at JDFI and Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, thanks so much for joining us today. Please tune in again next time right here for another edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk. This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.
