Join Priscilla Ron as she delves into the world of choral music and education with Scott Surface, a seasoned choir director whose career spans nearly three decades. Scott shares his journey from being raised by renowned choir directors to becoming one himself, achieving numerous accolades along the way. Discover how Scott’s passion for music and his commitment to excellence have shaped his teaching philosophy and impacted countless students throughout Texas. Tune in to explore the significant changes in education over the years and how Scott balances faith, music, and mentorship in his life.
Welcome to Restoring Education in America with Priscilla Ron. She’s a master educator and author, leading the conversation to restore the American mind through wisdom, virtue, and truth.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, hello, hello, everybody. Welcome to Restoring Education in America. I’m your host, Priscilla Ron, and I’m so pleased that you’ve decided to join the conversation today. In my show, we talk about all things education, and every now and again, I get to talk to another fellow educator. So I’m excited to introduce you to my guest today, Mr. Scott Surface. Hi, Scott. How’s it going?
SPEAKER 02 :
It’s going pretty good. How are you?
SPEAKER 03 :
I’m doing great. I’m going to share a little bit of your bio with the listeners so they know the master educator that I’m talking with today, okay? So my good friend Scott began teaching public school choral music in 1994 and is the Minister of Music at Wesley United Methodist Church in Greenville, Texas. He received his Bachelor of Music Education degree from Hardin-Simmons University. While in college, he was winner of the Senior Men’s Division of the National Association of Teachers of Singing. Scott began his teaching career in his hometown, Killeen, Texas, which is also my hometown. He taught in the Houston area for nine years before moving to the Dallas-Fort Worth area, where he taught in Forney ISD before ending up in Greenville, Texas to finish out his career. His choirs were consistent winners of sweepstakes and best-in-class awards at university interscholastic league concert and sight-reading contests and festivals in Dallas, San Antonio, and Houston. In 2002, Scott directed the Twin Creeks Middle School Concert Girls in their first appearance at TMEA. He is a member of TMEA, TCDA, ACDA, TMAA, Phi Mu Alpha, and Who’s Who Among American Teachers. Scott resides in Greenville, Texas with his beautiful wife, Holly, three horses, and five rescue dogs. He enjoys RVing at least once a month with his beautiful wife and working on the farm. Amazing, amazing resume. It’s good to see you, Scott.
SPEAKER 02 :
Good to see you.
SPEAKER 03 :
So with all of these achievements, let’s just talk about, let’s just have real talk, okay? From teacher to teacher, because I think the other teachers who listen to the show, we just have this way we talk to each other about our life as educators. You’ve been teaching almost 30 years. You retired once last year. Yeah, in 2024. And then you came back to teach. Talk about your journey. How did you start into teaching? What brought you into the education field?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, with both my parents being educators and both choral music teachers, which my mom got the privilege of teaching you, I wanted to be a singer. And I went off and I did stuff like that and ended up going, I don’t want to do this. So I started teaching with a slight detour after three years going to Indian university and working on a master’s in vocal performance and doing a curtain call in the opera dialogues of the Carmelites going, I like my kids getting sweepstakes more than this. And I came back to teaching and really didn’t look back for 25 years.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes. So your mom was my high school choir teacher at Killeen High School, and your dad was the choral director at the rival high school, Ellison High School. So at that time when we graduated the same year, but I went to Killeen High School, you went to Ellison High School. We were rival schools because there were only two schools at the time. And it almost seems like you were destined to become a vocal educator because it’s in the blood. And your parents are just known all over Texas as two of the premier choral directors in the state. They’re masters. Pardon?
SPEAKER 02 :
They’re masters.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes. They are masterful educators. And your mom was no nonsense. I will tell you that. She… she was at home too oh really okay that’s see you had some good home training scott as as all young people should have good home training Um, but I, I just remember your mom being very professional and very serious, but very caring at the same time. I knew that she loved being a teacher and your dad is such a sweetheart. Um, and I know this is coming from the outside. I know we have our opinions of our parents, right? But I want to keep this very elevated view of your parents. Okay. But I don’t think people always realize what music is like in Texas. It’s a very serious thing. All of your awards, I mean, that’s not easy to get the type of awards that you’ve gotten. What was it in your education, in your upbringing that led you to be so excellent in the craft that you have perfected?
SPEAKER 02 :
not really sure i i had a lot of good mentors um that taught me different things whether it was conducting whether it was musicianship whether it was just sheer let’s get out there and have the biggest and best of everything so I started with the easiest which I started with I’m gonna have the biggest choir program I possibly can and you know after teaching middle school for 10 years we had 470 in the choir program and then I would go with I’m gonna have this many kids in the region choir i would shoot for 50. in the last year i had 50 kids in the region choir how many how many choirs am i going to take to contest by myself and you know i’ve done five quite a few times which is crazy usually anybody who does five will have an assistant also but i I just worked at that. And then I took the criticisms that were given to me on my sheets or by anybody who came in my mom.
SPEAKER 03 :
Has your mom ever been an adjudicator for one of your competitions?
SPEAKER 02 :
No, she’s judged the school. I came to the next year, the year before I got there, but no, it’s unethical for them to judge my choirs at contest.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, okay. You know, I, again, the expectation in Texas is always at a very, very high level. Do you think your motivation comes from internal motivation or external motivation or a combination of both?
SPEAKER 02 :
Internally, I want to be, I want to be perfect. You know, that’s just inherent in me. Externally, I want… every kid that I come in contact with to have some type of success. If it’s through making the region or all-state choir, if it’s through getting a sweepstakes or singing an amazing solo on a concert, then any way I can go about doing that, I’ll do it.
SPEAKER 03 :
When I left Texas to come to Colorado, I had assumed that music was the same in every state. I had assumed like marching band would be amazing wherever I went, that choral would be amazing wherever I went. And it’s just not at that level. There isn’t the same pride in other states as there is in Texas. And I really miss that and the respect that we get as music educators. Because I was also in marching band. And we know football and marching band, they go hand in hand. Everybody in the community lived off of football and the halftime show and marching band. And then, of course, choir was just the same. It was along the same levels of excellence. Um, you’ve taught in many different school districts in Texas and they’re very, all very different. What, what did you learn about, you know, just diversifying your teaching, but also keeping that high level of excellence, no matter what district you were in.
SPEAKER 02 :
Um, I don’t, honestly, I don’t think I, except for getting smarter and, you know, getting more musical, um, I don’t think I changed my way of teaching in any district I was in. I still strove for the same things that I, whether I was in Killeen or in Spring ISD or Forney or Greenville, everywhere I went, those kids needed me at that time. So I just taught them the only way I knew how.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s beautiful and I think that’s the way it should be, right? You go in with a high bar for all of your kids and you as the teacher continue to hone your craft and you go in there and you give your students the very, very best and it’s no wonder why every school district that you’ve been in, I followed your social media all of these years and every time I’m so proud of you because I see photos of your students, And they’re all smiling and they are all proud of their work and they’re building community. Because I know I’m still friends with all of my friends from band and choir all of these years. It’s like a family. And it’s so critical that we offer these types of options for students because not every student is going to be a math kid or a literacy kid or math. um go into those types of fields there are those of us like you and me who thrive off of the arts and that’s what fills our cup and we have those students who need to have access equitable access to high level rigorous education um so that’s amazing so my show is called restoring education in America. We were talking recently about some of our pet peeves, like way back in the day, especially when we were growing up, we were so respectful to our teachers and, you know, discipline was expected. Have you seen education change in the last 30 years of teaching? And if so, what have you seen change?
SPEAKER 02 :
It has changed. The parents have changed in my eyes. Yes, this is different in every district, but the parents have slowly gone away in the districts I’ve been in from being involved in their kids’ education.
SPEAKER 03 :
Do you think that they’re just busy? Because back in the day when our parents were coming up and their parents, it was the traditional husband went to work and the wife stayed home and the family unit looked so much different. Now you’ve got people running around multiple jobs. Why do you think parents have changed?
SPEAKER 02 :
I’m not sure. I don’t think the discipline is there the way we had it. I mean, it was… normal that if you got in trouble in school you were going to get it at home you know normal now is you get in trouble at school that parent is going to come up and get on to you so or your principal is going to ask you a question like what did you do to provoke that really
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I mean, they knew. We had our naughty moments. I mean, it wasn’t like we were perfect back then, but the adults knew. You were. Yeah, I know you because your parents wouldn’t let you. Right. No, you had a reputation even then. Right. We’re not going to talk about that because that’s in the past. Okay. We’re not going to talk about that because now you’re a minister of music. Right. Okay. So let’s talk about you’ve grown up. Now you’re working in the church. And that’s really important because I’m on the worship team at my church as well. I play keys at my church. And I I’d love to hear for you what that does for you, like why you’re taking your gifts from education and adding it to your spiritual life. Like, what does that mean to you to be a minister of music at your church?
SPEAKER 02 :
I love it. I love the people. I love what the music does for our congregation. I was I was never going to be a. music minister or work in a church. I went to Hardin Simmons University in Abilene where there was a church on every single corner. And all of my friends were like, why don’t you just go be a minister of music somewhere? And I’m like, no. I mean, what if I want to go out to Cactus Moon or Midnight Rodeo? I don’t want to see anybody from my church. So I was like, no. And I actually, in February of 22, started going to this church and singing in the choir because at that time, my son’s girlfriend was in the choir. So I’d get my son there, go sing in the choir. About two months after I got there, the minister of music said, I am resigning as of such and such. And I was like, it time and i prayed about it and talked with my wife and my parents because they’re involved in my life as much as anybody else and it was time so i did it and i i love doing it i know the choir is amazing the people at the church are amazing the fact that there aren’t many choirs left in churches is what basically drew it to drew me to it because i grew up in a church that had a full choir and when i got back from college i went to another church that had a choir but you know praise team is not my thing it’s not for everybody the choir music is and that’s what that’s what will make me tear up so
SPEAKER 03 :
If you’re just tuning in, my guest today is Scott Surface. He is a master teacher of choral studies in the public school system in Texas. And he comes from very good pedigree. His mom and dad were high school choral teachers. And his mom, Mrs. Surface, hi, I know you’re watching. was my high school choir teacher. And I love the fact that I still have a relationship with your mom and me now being a music educator. Hopefully I make her proud, but you’re correct. I think that, yes, I say there’s a lid for every pot. Like some people like the modern worship, you know, where you have 20 guitar players and a couple of singers, and that’s kind of like the way modern worship is. But I do love the traditional churches where there’s the choir, because I also grew up singing in youth choir and then singing in the adult choir, and it tends to bring people together. And then you have like the Christmas cantata and then the Easter cantata. And you have all of these people in the congregation that are so talented, but they don’t want to be like on the worship team, on the platform, because you are pretty exposed when you’re in that type of a setting. So I applaud you for taking that on and finding your joy and kind of finding your lane where you can also give your gifts, not just to the public school system, but through your faith. So how do you connect your faith to your work in the public school system?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, there’s a lot of praying in the public school system. Not literally, but before you start, after you leave, in the middle of, please let them come in and let’s have a good class.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right.
SPEAKER 02 :
Something as easy as that. But it’s, I don’t know how anybody could do it that didn’t have faith in something. I mean, it, It is the hardest profession I think there is. I mean, book smart doctors, that’s tough. I wouldn’t want to do heart surgery on anybody. But teaching these kids today, it’s hard. And I went back to it after retiring in May of 24 and because my district needed a little bit of help. So I went back to teach middle school for the first time since 2005, which was interesting, but I love those kids.
SPEAKER 03 :
Of all the grades to go back to middle school.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, I guess if I was starting over, I’d start over there.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 02 :
But in the spring, I’ll be moving to the high school because that director is with child and will be having a child at the beginning of January. So I’ll get to be at the high school that I left two years ago with some of the kids that I taught. And I’m looking forward to taking them to contest. So.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, wow. So are you going to retire again?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes. That was quick. I will re-retire and I will be done.
SPEAKER 03 :
Interesting. They should give you like an extra, extra bonus for coming back. That would be awesome. OK, we’re going to advocate for that. So whoever’s listening, we’re going to make sure whoever in the school district is watching this, I’m going to send this. this interview to them and say, you know, make sure they treat you right. Cause maybe, maybe if they need you again, you might keep that smile on your face and come back to them again.
SPEAKER 02 :
Oh, they would have to pay a lot.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. Well, you know, but that’s just telling about the kind of teacher that you are, that you love the content. You love seeing the joy in students and you couldn’t just let them be without a teacher, right? You put them before you, before you retire. You could have easily said, no, I’m done. But it was incredibly selfless for you to say, yes, I will take this on another year and go from middle school to high school, take kids to contests and make sure that these kids have an amazing school year. And that’s just a testament to what so many teachers do.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, it’s, it’s tough. I mean, you know, I, the kids these days have a lot harder time taking criticism than they did 30 years ago. It’s very tough. But I still push them as hard as I did 30 years ago.
SPEAKER 03 :
So I go the same direction. Well, OK, so I know your mom was a very honest music teacher. Are you honest with your students when they’re trying to go when they’re getting ready for solo and ensemble contest or some other contest and they’re not quite ready? How do you approach them with the truth in a sweet and caring way? Or do you just let them go and say, just go and compete and get the scores that you’re going to get?
SPEAKER 02 :
I won’t let somebody go that’s not ready. And I’ll tell them they’re not ready. Some other people that we’ve discussed on here, they will tell them straight to their face, you haven’t worked on this. You need to do more or you’re not going. And I get that. But that’s why she’s so good.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s exactly, that’s why she’s so good. In this day and age though, Scott, people are of the opinion that you can’t tell children no or you’ll hurt their feelings. All of these things, like everybody gets a trophy. Just let them all go.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, you listen to kids sing and I’m like, you’re not singing. They’re like, I am singing. And I’ve always attributed it to one thing, cell phones. And this is why. Because that is usually the only speaker they have. So they’ll turn their cell phone up. And that’s why they think they’re singing, but they’re really not.
SPEAKER 03 :
Interesting observation.
SPEAKER 02 :
I’ve said that since 2008.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, I almost think that it’s better to be honest when you’re coaching young people while they’re young so that they don’t continue to be in some sort of silo. Because our parents will always tell us how amazing we are and how wonderful they are. And that mean teacher, they don’t know what they’re talking about. But… You want to help them while they’re young, while they’re still able to make these changes and adjustments before they audition for college and they get turned down or they try to audition for The Voice and they don’t understand why they’re, quote unquote, not making the cut. Don’t you think it’s better to be honest? And I don’t think it’s being mean when you tell students you’re just not ready right now.
SPEAKER 02 :
these are the things you need to work on i mean what do you think well we don’t think it’s mean but they shut down when when you do that and it’s like what is the fine line what you know what are you supposed to say
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, those are the skills that we need to teach children, those resiliency and the ability to take feedback and criticism and then make adjustments. Those are skills that not every teacher is teaching their students.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, definitely.
SPEAKER 03 :
So when you think about all of the things you’ve learned over the years, what would you say your philosophy of education is or some of your personal core values are?
SPEAKER 02 :
core values, discipline in the classroom as a teacher. Every kid deserves the shot. And that was one of my things. I never had auditions for my choir program. I had auditions for specific ability-based choirs, But there wasn’t anybody I told, no, you can’t be in choir ever in 30 years. So I might have four groaners, but I had a guy, my second year of teaching, everything was an octave low. I kept working with him and I think it was April of his eighth grade year. He just popped up the octave and there it was. You know, does that happen with everybody? No. But if I had said, you know, you really shouldn’t be in choir. You know, continue on with football, maybe try home ec or something. You know, he would have never that would have never clicked. Did he stay in choir after that? I don’t know. But he figured out where it was. with determination and me working with them as much as I possibly could during class?
SPEAKER 03 :
I think if we can get the world singing, it would be a much better world if we got people doing music together. Oh, yeah. Stop fighting, stop arguing, and start doing music together. I’m looking at the time and we’ve got to land our plane, Scott, before we go in about 30 seconds. What advice would you give to young teachers that are just now getting into the education field?
SPEAKER 02 :
Young teachers getting into the education field. Make sure you want to get in the education field for real and that, you know, and that you prayed about it and that you 150 percent really want to do it. Because if you don’t, you’re going to be out within a semester or two weeks. It’s tough. Know that going in that it’s tough and that you’re going to have to work. But have mentors, have people that you talk to. There were two to four people that I talked to on a daily basis when I got out of school. That’s after I stopped crying every day my first year. But I talked to them. Okay. What do I do this next day? That didn’t work. Okay. Try this, you know, have mentors, have people you talk to. Don’t try and do it on your own. It’s not going to happen.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s great advice. And that would be the same advice that I would give to a young teachers have mentors and know, yes, those first that first year is really tough. A lot of tears. I remember a lot of tears crying that first year. I don’t think people really understand what a punching bag you can be as a teacher, but you can do it. Look at us. We’ve made it. We’re doing it.
SPEAKER 02 :
And so you have hair, though. I don’t.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, I’m so grateful for that. But Scott, I’m so thankful that we had a conversation today. I really appreciate your time. And for my listeners, thank you for tuning in and catch me next time. And remember, educating the mind without the heart is no education. So seek wisdom, cultivate virtue and speak truth.
SPEAKER 01 :
Thanks for tuning in to Restoring Education in America with Priscilla Ron. Visit PriscillaRon.com to connect or learn how you can sponsor future episodes to keep this message of faith, freedom, and education on the air.
