In this episode of Washington Watch, guest host Jody Heiss explores the implications of the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision regarding Texas’s congressional districting, a ruling with potential ramifications for the upcoming midterms. Delve into the heated debates within the GOP over healthcare plans as they aim to rein in Obamacare subsidies, bringing on the insights of North Carolina Congressman Dr. Greg Murphy. Stay tuned for a festive recap of President Trump’s remarks at the National Christmas Tree lighting, emphasizing the spiritual significance of the holiday season.
SPEAKER 01 :
from the heart of our nation’s capital in Washington, D.C., bringing compelling interviews, insightful analysis, taking you beyond the headlines and soundbites into conversations with our nation’s leaders and newsmakers, all from a biblical worldview. Sitting in for Tony is today’s host, Jody Heiss.
SPEAKER 14 :
What the Supreme Court affirmed is what we have all known and said from the very beginning. Texas followed the law. They had the right to draw a fair map that accurately reflects the population of their state. It’s a deep red state, and that’s what this map reflects. And the court said, yes, of course, the states have the right to do that.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, that was House Speaker Mike Johnson reacting to last night’s Supreme Court decision in favor of the Texas Republican redistricting map. Welcome to this December 5th edition of Washington Watch. I’m your Friday host, Jody Heiss. Thank you so much for joining us. All right, coming up today, House Republicans plan to unveil their health care plan that they’ll present next week. They’re aiming to rein in costly Obamacare subsidies, but with moderates pushing competing proposals, the party debate is certainly heating up, and North Carolina Congressman Dr. Greg Murphy will be joining us momentarily for his take on it all. Plus there is an upcoming film, The Case for Miracles. It takes on some big questions like whether God exists and whether miracles are still happening today. Using stories, science, real world evidence and the like. Dr. Lee Strobel, best-selling author, probably best known for The Case for Christ, among other things, will be joining us to preview the movie and its message. So you want to be sure to stay tuned for that. And the US Supreme Court has cleared away for Texas to use its newly redrawn congressional map. This obviously deals a blow to the lower court. They tried to block it while at the same time it delivers a win for Republicans heading into the 2026 midterms. The map literally could shift several House seats to the GOP, which of course would strengthen President Trump’s push to maintain control of Congress and joining me now to discuss this and more Washington stand reporter Casey Harper. Casey, thanks for being with us. Let’s start with this story. Just how significant is this ruling for Texas and potentially Republicans as we head into the midterms?
SPEAKER 12 :
Yeah, well, thanks, Jody. This decision’s a major victory for Texas Republicans, no doubt about it. Those Republicans, they argued that the lower court overstepped by inserting itself into an already active election cycle. The Supreme Court, they agreed. They said the judges created unnecessary confusion and failed to present any workable alternative map. GOP leaders say the reinstated map better reflects Texas’ political landscape and pushes back against what they call partisan lawsuits designed to undermine state authority. Here’s what Speaker Mike Johnson said about the hearing in an interview with Tony Perkins that’s going to air on their weekend program this week on Capitol Hill.
SPEAKER 14 :
Texas followed the law. They had the right to draw a fair map that accurately reflects the population of their state. It’s a deep red state, and that’s what this map reflects. And the court said, yes, of course, the states have the right to do that. Now, there’s a number of states in various stages of doing the same thing, some red states, some blue states. We’ll see how it all shakes out at the end. I think by most analyses, our party will benefit, will net a handful of seats out of that.
SPEAKER 12 :
Now, Democrats are of course criticizing the ruling, but Texas is just one of many states in a legal redistricting battle. Both Democrat and Republican-led states nationwide are advancing their own maps and moves that could reshape the House for 2026.
SPEAKER 04 :
That’s a big deal. And I certainly encourage all of our viewers and listeners to tune in to the entire interview that Tony has with Speaker Johnson that is coming up this weekend. And by the way, for those viewing analysts, you can catch that if you have the Stand Firm app. And we will certainly also include it under the TonyPerkins.com website. So either of those options for you, but you want to catch that entire interview. Casey, there’s additional news coming out of Texas involving the Ten Commandments. And now we have a host of congressional Republicans defending the Ten Commandments displays in public schools. What can you tell us about that?
SPEAKER 12 :
That’s right, Jody. So Texas lawmakers and congressional Republicans in Washington are backing this Texas law that requires every public school classroom to display the Ten Commandments. Senator Ted Cruz, House Speaker Mike Johnson, and Congressman Chip Roy led 43 other congressional Republicans in filing an amicus brief. That brief argues that the Ten Commandments are a foundational part of America’s legal and historical tradition and can still be displayed without violating the First Amendment. They say the move reinforces the nation’s Judeo-Christian roots. This case is now before the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals, which will decide whether the law stands, Jody.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, we’re going to be having Mike Berry from First Liberty Institute a little bit later in the program to deal with this specifically. So that’s a big deal. Casey, if we can switch gears on a lighter note, but we’re in Christmas season. I know the National Christmas Tree Lighting took place. Can you share with us a little bit about that and maybe a little about the message that President Trump delivered?
SPEAKER 12 :
Yeah, that’s right, Jody. I’m one of those people who puts their tree up before Thanksgiving now, which I know is controversial. So I do love this story. And its story is this. President Trump and First Lady Melania Trump led the 2025 National Christmas tree lighting on the National Mall. They drew a large crowd for this century-old tradition.
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Three, two, one.
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You just feel the Christmas spirit. Jodi, the first lady had the honor of flipping the switch on this 35-foot red spruce tree. And the president, he focused his remarks on the holiday’s spiritual significance by quoting scripture.
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this beautiful evergreen tree and reminds us of the words of Gospel of John, in him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. With the birth of Jesus, human history turned from night to day. His word and his example call us to love one another, to serve one another, and to honor the sacred truth that every child is specially made in the image of God.
SPEAKER 12 :
The president also delivered an emotional tribute to the two recently attacked National Guardsmen, Jody, praising one who’s recovering and honoring the other who died. And the president also met with their families earlier today.
SPEAKER 04 :
Wow, that is powerful, Casey. Thank you so much. We appreciate you providing these updates. And what a great message. I’ll tell you, the lighting of that tree there in Washington is always, always special. All right. Let’s turn our attention now with House Republicans, of course, close to finalizing their health care bill and Senate Democrats at the same time trying to set up a last ditch effort to try to extend the Obamacare subsidies. I wanted to get a pulse on where things stand right now and what we might see in the days to come. So joining me now to offer his assessment is Congressman Greg Murphy. He serves on a number of committees, including the Ways and Means Committee. He’s also the co-chair of the Doctors Caucus, and he represents the 3rd Congressional District, the great state of North Carolina. Dr. Murphy, welcome back to Washington Watch. Always great to see you.
SPEAKER 15 :
Hey, Jody. Hope you’re doing well. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER 04 :
Doing well. Thank you. All right. Let’s start off with what’s happening over in the Senate side of things. Of course, we have Senate Democrats who are introducing a bill. I think they did it yesterday to try to temporarily extend for three years the Obamacare subsidies that, of course, are set to expire at the end of this year. But as I understand it, Congressman, this would create somewhere between a $300 billion and $500 billion deficit. I mean, there’s a huge price tag with what they’re trying to do. So what’s your thoughts on the attempts by the Senate Democrats right now, what they’re proposing?
SPEAKER 15 :
Jody, those won’t go anywhere. House Republicans won’t go for this. A clean extension of cost, as you point out, would be $400 billion. I think our viewers really need to understand that this was a ticking time bomb set forth by Obamacare back in 2014 when it was started to be enacting. And then with the American Rescue Plan, the Inflation Reduction Act, which had nothing to do with inflation, just put Band-Aids on a dying and decrepit population. and bloated a failing system and then then the enhanced premium tax credits the covid era temporary tax credits continue to pour more money into a failing system remember those words from obama you can keep your plan and your premiums will go down absolute lies to the american people so we’ve kept subsidizing during this entire time the health insurance industry which is where the rise in the premiums is primarily coming from health care costs have increased there’s no doubt about that but what we’re doing here is continuing to subsidize a very very profitable health insurance industry i think since obamacare started They’ve earned over $360 billion in profit, in profit alone. So as far as what the Senate Democrats are going to do, that’s not going to go anywhere. Republicans won’t vote for that. What we need to do is a scaled-down response, one that’s going to be tapered out, a lot of with other reforms that actually lower the cost of health care.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, that’s certainly encouraging to hear. And of course, on the other side where you serve there in the House, Speaker Johnson told reporters yesterday that House Republicans are close at least to wrapping up their own health care bill. What are you hoping for there and what can you tell us about it?
SPEAKER 15 :
Yeah, so we had a great meeting yesterday with the speaker and and majority leader yesterday with doctors caucus. We met for over an hour and discuss things and you know, basically I think there has to be a glide path. I think it’s bad for the American people to just immediately stop these subsidies. Remember, this is only about anywhere from 8 to 1212 million people. Most people in this country are covered by their insurance plans by their by their employers. about 40 million individuals are covered by Medicaid. And so we’re dealing with a fairly small population, but that fairly small population would be left out in the lurch. So what we’re talking about is scaling back the fraud. You know, you’ve had up to six to 12 million individuals who’ve been on these plans that have never filed a claim. So they’ve been, we think that they’ve been fraudulently enrolled and the checks have gone literally from the the Treasury to insurance companies’ pockets with no expenses whatsoever. The other thing is we’ve had individuals that have been paying nothing. We need individuals to pay something, to register in with the system, be it $5 a month, 2 percent of their income, to pay something. They’re not on Medicaid, to pay something to be in this. The other part of this is the other extreme with this. We have individuals in some places in this country earning $500,000, $600,000 that are getting subsidies from the government. Those need to go away. So scaling this back maybe to about 650% of the federal poverty level and then tapering it off where they go away completely, I think is on the plan. But also, this is what’s critical also, Jody, is that we’re going to need to include things that start lowering the cost of care. Now, Obamacare, the insurance companies, did not want competition, so they outlawed something called associated insurance plans, where groups of individuals can get together and insure themselves. They didn’t want that competition. Democrats don’t want that. But we’re going to make sure that that gets put in the bill. Other things, PBM reform, pharmacy benefit managers, Which, you know, we’ve seen consolidation go through the roof since Obamacare. True meaningful reform that actually passed in the House last year in a bipartisan manner needs to go on that also. Other things need to happen. Site neutrality, CON reform. A lot of different things need to happen, whether they’ll be included in this bill or not. But it’ll be part of a big initiative next year to actually lower the cost of health care.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, North Carolina Congressman Dr. Greg Murphy, I know very few understand the depths of what’s going on and what needs to any more than you. I want to thank you so much for taking time to join us today on Washington Watch, as always. Honored to see you, and thank you for joining us.
SPEAKER 15 :
Thanks, Jody. God bless. Merry Christmas.
SPEAKER 04 :
Likewise to you, my friend. Alright, while Congress is debating healthcare folks, I want to encourage you. We have a petition here to urge Congress no more taxpayer funding of abortion, no more funding of gender transition procedures, period. Text ACA to 67742. We’ll be back.
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Hello, I’m Tony Perkins, and I want to invite you to join me for Stand on the Word, a daily journey through the Bible, 10 to 15 minutes a day. That’s all it takes. And in no time, you’ll have finished the entire Bible. And along the way, we’ll learn how to apply God’s truths to the world in which we live. As we’re about to start a new year and as our nation is about to celebrate 250 years, there’s never been a better time for a fresh start in the Word of God. To join us, text BIBLE to 67742. That’s BIBLE to 67742.
SPEAKER 11 :
Should a Christian support Israel? That question has become one of the most emotionally charged issues of our time, both in the world and within the church. Family Research Council President Tony Perkins offers a clear biblical and prophetic answer. In his latest book, he examines Israel’s past, present, and future through the lens of Scripture, revealing why support for Israel is not rooted in politics, partisanship, or cultural sentiment, but in the unchanging promises of God. Drawing from Genesis to Revelation, Tony Perkins demonstrates that the ultimate rationale for a Christian’s support for Israel is spiritual. Should a Christian Support Israel invites believers to see beyond headlines and ideologies, returning to the foundation of God’s Word to understand His heart for His chosen people and the blessings that flow when we stand with what He has established forever. Text the word Israel to 67742 for more information.
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What is God’s role in government? What does the separation of church and state really mean? And how does morality shape a nation? President John Adams said our Constitution was made only for moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. Join Family Research Council for God and Government, a powerful series that explores the connection between biblical principles and the American government, equipping you with truth to engage in today’s most pressing debates. We’ll uncover the foundations of our nation’s history and why it’s relevant for today. Join us to defend God’s plan for government because faith and freedom were never meant to be separate. You can view the course at prayvotestand.org slash godandgovernment or on the Stand Firm app.
SPEAKER 10 :
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SPEAKER 04 :
Hope you’re having a great Friday. Good afternoon. Welcome back to Washington Watch. I’m your Friday host, Jody Heiss. And thank you so much for tuning in with us today. All right. Yesterday, in an unsigned opinion, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Texas can go back to using its new GOP-favored congressional maps for the upcoming midterm elections. And their decision there essentially puts a hold on the lower court decision that determined that the map was an illegal attempt to dilute the votes of minorities. So now the GOP favored map will remain in effect as this case continues to move through the lower courts. But what does all this potentially mean, not only for Texas, but for other states who are in the middle of redistricting efforts? Well, here now to unpack all of this is Ken Blackwell. He’s a special advisor for election integrity at FRC Action. And over the years, he’s worn many hats, including secretary of state for Ohio and the co-chair of the U.S. Census Monitoring Board. Ken, always great to have you on Washington Watch. Welcome back.
SPEAKER 07 :
Jody, it’s good to be with you.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, listen, I know Tony had you on the program yesterday to discuss this whole thing of redistricting. But then probably less than an hour later, after you were off, this ruling came out. So were you surprised by the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision?
SPEAKER 07 :
No, it wasn’t. If you look at a lot of the court’s thinking, and particularly with this majority, they’re basically saying that we can’t be frozen in a moment of history, a moment where the Voting Rights Act, particularly Section 2, did a great job of making sure that, you know, minorities had the full power of their individual vote. But what they basically said is that the progress has been made and we can now no longer deny African Americans the right of full citizenship in terms of mobility and moving and being in districts that make sense when you look at the compactness of the district so i wasn’t surprised i think i think that opinion well at least the the statement suggests that uh they’re going to probably rule in favor of of the texas legislature and and basically put the burden on the plaintiffs to say can you show us how this this these redistricting efforts are actually geared towards making the power of the ballot less effective for minorities. And I don’t think that they can do it, Jody. And there is, I think, the hopefulness of this moment. Progress has been made. And the other thing that you know, you can’t take politics out of politics. And the fact of the matter is, is that political bodies actually design these districts. They are held to a constitutional standard, but the design is up to them and yes if in fact you’re in california and the democrats control that legislature they’re going to look at ways to make sure that they get the optimal number of districts that favor them the same thing in texas and that’s that’s where we are you can’t take politics out of politics and we’ve made great progress as a country and and and holding them to some uh 1965 standards It’s crazy.
SPEAKER 04 :
So let me so you bring up California. Let me let me throw this out. As you well know, the Department of Justice has sued California over their redrawn maps and Governor Newsom there has argued that he started this whole California mid decade redistricting efforts in response to Texas doing it. So does that argument hold water in the courts?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, again, it was a reaction to a political design in Texas. It had nothing to do with the fairness and the demographics of California. I think the chances are that the Supreme Court will probably rule in favor of California. And when it’s all said and done, and all of the lawsuits and all of the designs are finalized in redistricting, Republicans will probably have picked up a two seat maybe three seat advantage across the board but you know what jody uh that is a paper thin margin and we’re in a off election uh and and what that means is that the burden is normally on the party not in control of the white house so we got up we have a lot of work to do on on this in this Redesign battlefield political field.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes, so. What you’re saying then in essence is I understand that that the redistricting effort probably if the court rulings continue as they are currently going will end up favoring Republicans a couple two or three seats, but that may not be enough given that the midterm elections generally go against the party that is in control.
SPEAKER 07 :
Absolutely, that is it exactly. But you know what? I think what the Republican Party is going to lean in on is that in 2026, Our economy is going to be stronger. Wages are going to be up. You’re going to see manufacturing coming back to the United States. And that’s a consequence of a combination of increasing people’s and family incomes and lowering inflation. People are going to be back to enjoying a very profitable and affordable life in America. That’s what the speaker is going to lean in on.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right. Well, that’s that’s great to hear. So we’ve less than a minute to go before our hard break here, Ken. So what do you say to people who right now may feel discouraged? Voting is essential. So what would you say to those who may be sitting on the fence right now?
SPEAKER 07 :
You can’t sit on the fence if you’re not in the room, if you’re not in the game, you know. your your your your your default your your citizenship and your and your voice you know your vote is your voice speak up engage make sure that you in fact are saying back to washington what matters to you i would encourage people to be poll workers poor watchers and build the transparency to make sure that everything is on the up and up. We can’t have a margin. We need to have a margin that’s too big to rig. So that drives engagement.
SPEAKER 04 :
Ken Blackwell, thank you so much for your insights and expertise. Always great to have you. All right, friends, coming up, do the Ten Commandments have a place in public schools? Well, we’ll answer that and deal with it right after the break. Stay with us.
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For over 4,000 years, the Jewish people have had legal, historical, and biblical ties to the land of Israel, especially the heartland of Israel, Judea and Samaria, which much of the world still calls the West Bank. To Israelis, Judea and Samaria is far more than a name. It’s the center of their ancestral homeland where nearly 80% of the Bible’s events took place. Abraham purchased property in Hebron, Jacob in Shechem, Joshua made an altar on Mount Ebal and led the Israelites into a covenant before God. On Mount Gerizim, overlooking Shechem, Jesus talked to the Samaritan woman at the well about worshiping neither on Mount Gerizim nor in Jerusalem, but in spirit and in truth. Judea and Samaria is nearly a quarter of Israel’s current land mass, not a small strip of land on the Jordan River, but a vital and strategic part of the nation’s identity. The October 7th massacre, launched from Gaza, shattered the illusion that giving away territory brings peace. Gaza, which was once seen as the cornerstone of a two-state solution, became a launchpad for terror. Today, only 21% of Israelis support a Palestinian state. Trust in a two-state solution has all but collapsed. The Middle East is changing. Iran’s grip is weakening. New alliances are forming. But Western countries and some U.S. officials still chase the mirage of a two-state solution. History speaks clearly. The 2005 Gaza withdrawal, backed by the U.S., led not to peace, but to a terrorist regime. Judea and Samaria are 24 times larger than Gaza, deeply woven into Israel’s geographic and spiritual fabric. To surrender them would not bring peace. It would invite conflict and existential danger. Family Research Council stands with Israel’s rightful claim to sovereignty. It’s time for America to do the same for history, for justice, and for lasting security in the Middle East.
SPEAKER 04 :
Good afternoon. Welcome back to Washington Watch. I’m your Friday host, Jody Heiss. Thank you so much for joining us today. All right. This week, Senator Ted Cruz and House Speaker Mike Johnson, Congressman Chip Roy and a host of others from both the House and the Senate filed an amicus brief. That’s a friend of the court brief. They did so at the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals in regard to laws requiring displays of the Ten Commandments in public schools, both in Texas and Louisiana. Now, these laws, as you can imagine, have received significant pushback from the left. The left, by the way, which is perfectly fine with rainbow flags in the classrooms and that sort of thing, but not a document that actually has historical significance in our country. But nonetheless, why is this case right now so important? We’re here now to share more is Mike Berry. He’s the executive director of External Affairs and Senior Counsel at First Liberty Institute, which filed the brief on behalf of these members of Congress. Mike, welcome back to Washington Watch. Always great to have you.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, thanks for having me. It’s great to be back.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, let’s start with a maybe a little refresher course on this. Tell us about the Texas and Louisiana laws and then what these members of Congress are actually pointing out.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, this goes back to several years ago. First Liberty Institute won a number of cases at the US Supreme Court. We first won the case of the American Legion versus the American Humanist Association, which of course was our successful defense of a World War One Veterans Memorial. And then just a few years ago, we won the now famous case of Coach Joe Kennedy in Kennedy versus Bremerton School District. Those two cases are important because they really turned about 50 years of bad Supreme Court precedent on its head and got rid of what’s known as the Lemon Test, which is what the left has been using for half a century to do things like try to attack Ten Commandments in schoolhouses or on state capitol grounds or other government buildings and so the Supreme Court said look when you have something that has some sort of religious significance or as well as historical significance on government property it’s no longer appropriate to remove it just because somebody says they’re offended We need to look to the history and tradition of the country to see whether that display, whether it’s a Ten Commandments, a nativity scene, or something like that, a Veterans Memorial that’s in the shape of a cross, is there some sort of historical significance to that that is consistent with the history and tradition of America and our Constitution? In the case of a Ten Commandments in a schoolhouse, we had two states, Texas and Louisiana, that passed laws through their legislatures saying, yes, it’s perfectly acceptable to have Ten Commandments put up in a schoolhouse or in a schoolroom. And that’s what the state legislatures did. The governor signed it into law. And like you said, Jody, unfortunately, you’ve got activists on the left who immediately filed lawsuits to try to challenge it. And now we are at the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals fighting for those And we had 46 members of Congress from both chambers, the Senate and the House, led by Senator Ted Cruz, Speaker Mike Johnson, Congressman Chip Roy, saying, look, this is entirely consistent with the history and tradition of the nation and the Constitution to do this. And so we’re very proud to stand with those senators and representatives in upholding these laws.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right, so what about those who start screaming, separation of church and state? Does that hold any water in this case whatsoever?
SPEAKER 13 :
No. I mean, the words separation of church and state, first of all, are found nowhere in our Constitution. Second of all, that’s the sort of religious hostility that the Supreme Court tossed out when they issued those decisions in those two cases that I talked about, that First Liberty won. So that’s no longer the law of the land in this country anymore. it was for about 50 years where all you had to do was say separation of church and state i’m offended to see attend commandments in a school room and and you’d get a liberal activist judge who would rule in their favor they can’t do that anymore because of those two cases so now at the fifth circuit court of appeals that’s our hope is that the the judges on the fifth circuit will take those two Supreme Court victories that First Liberty won, they’ll look at these two state laws that were passed in Texas and Louisiana, and they’ll say, enough is enough, right? It is wholly appropriate and consistent with the Constitution to have the Ten Commandments in a schoolroom, in a city hall, courtroom chambers. For goodness sakes, we’ve got the Ten Commandments inscribed up on the ceiling of the Supreme Court itself, the Supreme Court of the United States. So why wouldn’t we have it in a schoolroom?
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, I was just going to say that. I mean, there’s copies or displays of the Ten Commandments even there on the Supreme Court. How did they then say, well, we can have it, but you can’t? I mean, are these cases very different from that which the Supreme Court itself has?
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, there’s certainly a lot of similarities, Jody, but one of the differences is that these two cases out of Texas and Louisiana, they really arise out of acts of the state legislature. And so that’s why I think this amicus brief, this friend of the court brief, as you mentioned, is really important here is because it really boils down to can a state legislature pass a law that does something like this without being challenged immediately just because somebody says they’re offended. Because as our brief points out, if all it takes is for somebody to say they’re offended, then any time a state legislature tries to pass a law, and I realize you’re a former member of Congress yourself, so you probably understand this as well as anyone, THAT MEMBERS OF CONGRESS AND IN THE STATE LEGISLATURE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LOOK OVER THEIR SHOULDER ANY TIME THEY PASS A LAW AND START WONDERING, WELL, GOSH, IS SOMEBODY GOING TO BE OFFENDED BY WHAT WE’VE JUST DONE AND TRY TO SUE US AND UNDO ALL THIS HARD WORK? LEGISLATURES WOULD NEVER GET ANYTHING DONE AND ALL IT WOULD TAKE WAS BE AN ACTIVIST JUDGE TO STRIKE DOWN A DULY ENACTED PIECE OF LEGISLATION. WE CAN’T HAVE THAT IN THIS COUNTRY OR NOTHING WILL EVER GET ACCOMPLISHED.
SPEAKER 04 :
Absolutely. Extremely well said. Thank you so much, Mike Berry, First Liberty Institute. Always great to have you, my friend.
SPEAKER 13 :
Thanks for having me on.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right, coming up on the other side of the break, you don’t want to miss this. We will be discussing the case for miracles. New York Times bestselling author Lee Strobel will be joining me for a fascinating discussion. And I can tell you right up front, you don’t want to miss this upcoming conversation. So stay with us. We’ll be back right after this break.
SPEAKER 08 :
At Family Research Council, we believe religious freedom is a fundamental human right that all governments must protect. For years, Islamist militants in Nigeria have targeted Christians and other religious minority groups with brutal violence. Since 2009, 52,000 Christians have been slaughtered. A staggering 89% of Christian martyrs in the world today are from Nigeria. The first Trump administration declared Nigeria a country of particular concern, a designation reserved for countries whose governments engage in or tolerate religious freedom violations. However, this designation of Nigeria was quickly reversed by the Biden administration. Following consistent calls from FRC President Tony Perkins and other religious leaders across the US, President Donald Trump has responded.
SPEAKER 06 :
Christianity is facing an existential threat in Nigeria. Thousands and thousands of Christians are being killed. I am hereby making Nigeria a country of particular concern.
SPEAKER 08 :
This is a huge step forward for the protection of Christians in Nigeria, as well as religious freedom across the world. While this opens the door for the US government to pressure Nigerian leaders to protect vulnerable Christians, it is only the beginning. We must continue to pray diligently, work strategically, and stand firm for the protection of religious liberty across the globe.
SPEAKER 03 :
In times like these, we need something solid to stand on. That’s why I’m inviting you to join me on January the 1st for Stand on the Word, a daily journey through the entire Bible. Each day, we’ll read God’s Word together, discuss how to apply His truths to our lives, 15 minutes that can transform your year. Join me and thousands of others as we stand strong by standing on the Word of God. Text BIBLE to 67742. That’s BIBLE to 67742.
SPEAKER 02 :
How should Christians think about the thorny issues shaping our culture? How should Christians address deceitful ideas like transgenderism, critical theory, or assisted suicide? How can Christians navigate raising children in a broken culture, the war on gender roles, or rebuilding our once great nation? Outstanding is a podcast from The Washington Stand dedicated to these critical conversations. Outstanding seeks to tear down what our corrupt culture lifts up with an aim to take every thought and every idea captive to the obedience of Christ. Whether policies or partisan politics, whether conflict in America or conflict abroad, join us and our guests as we examine the headlines through the lens of Scripture and explore how Christians can faithfully exalt Christ in all of life. Follow Outstanding on your favorite podcast app and look for new episodes each week.
SPEAKER 04 :
Good afternoon. Welcome back to Washington Watch. I am your Friday host, Jody Heiss. Thank you so much for tuning in with us today. All right. As we approach our nation’s 250th anniversary, I want to encourage you to come on board and support the work of Family Research Council in protecting the principles that our country was founded upon. And you have a special opportunity right now through December 31st. Your gift, any gift, FRC, will be doubled thanks to a special challenge match. And so you’ve got the opportunity now to have twice the impact. And we encourage you to do so, to take advantage of this limited-time opportunity. Let me give you a phone number. I’ll give it to you a couple of times, 800-225-7000. 800-225-4008. All right, here we go again. 800-225-4008. Now is your chance to have twice the impact. And thank you in advance for helping us. All right, well, Christmas is less than three weeks away. Hard to believe. But for those of you perhaps who are running out of gift ideas or trying to come up with a good idea, I have a fantastic suggestion for you. Movie tickets. And this is not just any movie. There is a new movie that answers some of the most important questions in life. Questions like, is there a God? Are miracles real? Does science disprove miracles? Do miracles even still happen in today’s modern world? Well, all of these and more are answered in this new movie, and it’s all coming to a theater near you. The movie is called The Case for Miracles. It is a great idea for a gift for anyone you love who does not personally have a relationship with Jesus Christ. And joining me now to highlight this upcoming movie is author Lee Strobel. He leads the journey through this. He unpacks it all in The Case for Miracles. He, of course, is also the author of many books like The Case for the Creator, The Case for Christ, The Case for Faith, and so many others. He’s had an enormous impact on my life as well as many, many of you. Lee, welcome to Washington Watch. It’s an honor to have you join us.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, thanks for having me. It’s a privilege to be here.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, listen, let’s first start with a little bit of your background. Just remind our audience a little bit of where you came from and how you came to a relationship with Christ.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, I was an atheist, trained in journalism and law. I was a legal editor of the Chicago Tribune. And my wife was, I’d call her agnostic, just sort of spiritually confused. She met a neighbor who was a Christian who shared Jesus with her. And my wife then gave me the worst news an atheist husband could get. She said, I’ve decided to become a Christian. And I thought I need to rescue her from this cult that she’s gotten involved in. So I decided to take my journalism training and legal training. And I ended up spending two years investigating a miracle, really, which is the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Did he claim to be the son of God? Did he back up that claim by returning from the dead? I spent two years doing that until I realized that it would take more faith to maintain my atheism than to become a Christian in light of the avalanche of evidence that points so powerfully toward the truth of Christianity. So that changed my life, my values, my character, my morality and my attitudes, my marriage, my parenting. And then I gave up my journalism career, took a 60 percent pay cut and joined the staff of a church and never looked back.
SPEAKER 04 :
That is such a remarkable story, Lee. And all of us who have heard that story, every time I hear it again, it just causes a smile on my face and inside the heart to see how God can take anyone and transform their life and use them powerfully for his kingdom. All right. So let’s transition just in time for Christmas here. You’ve got a brand new movie coming out this year, The Case for Miracles. Lay that out for us. What is this all about?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah. Yeah. It’s really about asking the question, is God still in the miracle business today? We see miracles in the Bible, lots of them in the New Testament. But is God still supernaturally intervening in the lives of people today? So we in the film look at cases that aren’t just things you hear on the Internet or here in the hallways of a church, but these are well-documented cases. because I believe we can reasonably conclude that a miracle has happened if four things are true. First, do we have solid medical documentation? Second, do we have multiple incredible eyewitnesses with no motive to deceive? Third, is there no natural explanation that can account for this? And fourth, does it take place in the context of prayer? And sure enough, there are many cases. Some of them are documented in peer reviewed medical journals, and they’ll absolutely blow your mind.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right. Well, let’s give us an example. Like when you say this will blow our mind, give us an example or two.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, one of my favorite ones, and this was documented by multiple medical researchers and published in a peer reviewed medical journal, is a woman who was blind for a dozen years with incurable condition, juvenile macular degeneration. She went to a school for the blind. She learned to read Braille. And she married a Baptist pastor. And one night they were getting ready to go to bed and he comes over. She’s already in bed. He puts his hand on her shoulder and he begins to pray. He says, and he begins to cry. He says, Lord, I know you can heal my wife. I know you can do it. And Lord, I pray you do it tonight. And with that, she opened her eyes and saw her husband for the first time. She said, after years of darkness, all of a sudden, I could see perfectly. It’s a miracle. And sure enough, her eyesight remained for the rest of her life, over 50 years. And again, multiple medical researchers documenting this and publishing it in a medical journal. So this is solid stuff. And how do you account for that? Unless you say, look, miracles are impossible. Now, give me the evidence. which I don’t think is a good way to investigate things. I think the only rational explanation to that is that God did intervene supernaturally in that case.
SPEAKER 04 :
That’s so remarkable. And so there’s just case after case after this. Are all of them documented that you bring to light here?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, many of them are ones that I documented myself, and others have documented, written about by medical doctors and so forth. The case of Barbara Snyder, who was instantaneously healed 100% of multiple sclerosis. An amazing case. She was on her deathbed. She was curled up like a pretzel, had a tube in her throat so she could breathe. She was virtually blind. Her body was just rigid. one lung was collapsed the other lung was at 50 percent and her friends are reading some letters she received 450 people were praying for her because her case was reported on the radio in chicago and she hears a voice of god from the corner of the room saying my child get up and walk and so she rips the tube from her throat and says i don’t know what you’re going to think about this go tell my parents i wanted to be here god just told me to get up and walk and she jumps out of bed 100 healed she hadn’t walked in seven years her legs had atrophy but her muscle tone instantly returned she was 100 instantaneously healed of the effects of multiple sclerosis that was pentecost sunday they went to church that night to thank god for what happened they got there after the service had begun and the pastor was up there at the front he says anybody got any announcements And Barbara comes walking down the center aisle. Nobody’s seen Barbara walk out of a wheelchair, you know, in seven years. And the place erupts with people singing Amazing Grace. I once was blind, and now I see. And the next day she goes to one of her doctors, and he said later, I saw her walking down the corridor toward my office, and my thought was, oh, she died, and that’s a ghost. Because he said this is medically impossible. Wow. Wow.
SPEAKER 04 :
Wow, I can only imagine the sermon, how that service went. So Lee, what inspired you to make this movie? What happened in the background that spurred you to say, we need something like this?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, you know, people are more spiritually open and sensitive during the Christmas season. That’s just a fact. And Colossians tells us in chapter four, verse five, that we are to seize opportunities to tell people the good news about Jesus. And I thought this is a perfect season to do. I had done a book on this title a number of years ago, The Case for Miracles. And let’s let’s because so many young people, their language is cinema. So let’s speak in their language. Create a film that moves them emotionally, but also feeds them intellectually. Something with credibility and with substance. And so that’s what we hopefully have done. And I can’t wait to see what God does with it.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, I can’t either. So what were some of the biggest questions that you explore in this? There had to be something driving you in all of it.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah. The number one question is, well, why doesn’t God grant every miracle request? Why aren’t all prayers for miracles answered right away the way we ask them? My wife has an incurable neuromuscular condition. She’s been in pain for 20 years. And she’ll be in pain every day for the rest of her life unless God does a miracle because it’s an incurable condition. And he hasn’t chosen to do that. So what do you do with that? Well, we deal with that in the movie. I think there are good answers to that. And it’s a legitimate question that people ask. But miracles were not automatic in New Testament times either. The Bible says Jesus didn’t do many miracles in Nazareth. Nazareth because of a lack of faith. In one chapter in Matthew, the disciples are commissioned to be able to heal people. And then seven chapters later, they can’t heal an epileptic boy. Paul didn’t heal everybody. He had a buddy named Trophimus who got sick. What does Paul do? He doesn’t heal Trophimus. He goes off on a missionary journey. And then Paul had this thorn in the flesh that God didn’t heal. Healing is not odd. I believe God will heal all his children, but for many of us, it won’t be until we transition into the world to come a place of no pain and no suffering whatsoever. Um, And, you know, Romans 8, 28 says God can cause all things to work together for good for those who love him and are called according to his purpose. And so I know in my wife, you know, this is not a path she would have chosen for herself. And yet she is a woman of compassion and empathy to others that I don’t think she would have been if she hadn’t gone through this experience. So God’s caused good to emerge even from the suffering that she’s gone through.
SPEAKER 04 :
Wow. You’ve been a Christian now for a long time. Yeah, since 1981. Were there some other discoveries that you uncovered while making this movie that just are very impressionable to you?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, one of them, I just came out simultaneously with a new book called Seeing the Supernatural. And one of the things I investigated there are deathbed visions. And this is biblical. These are visions of what’s to come that people have just before they die. And we see it in the Bible in Acts chapter 7 when Stephen was about to be murdered, stoned to death. And he sees, he looks up, he sees the heavens open up. He sees the glory of God and Jesus there. vision of what’s to come including here’s a corroboration including seeing people in the world to come who they did not know had already died it’s very common um so these and these have been studied by scientists it’s a fascinating area it’s not a near-death experience thing that’s a different category these are people who are about to pass from this world and they get a glimpse of what’s to come very powerful stuff
SPEAKER 04 :
Wow. Well, you mentioned a little while ago and passing the case for Christmas. What is that all about?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, I did a book called the case for Christmas. My idea was, uh, let’s keep it inexpensive. It’s a, you can get it for under a two bucks. Um, and it’s a little book that looks at what is the historical evidence that Christmas is true because the best stories are the ones that turn out to be true. And you know, Christmas is a story. It’s an amazing story. It’s a wonderful story, but guess what? It’s true. And so I did this book and Hobby Lobby said, let’s give away free half a million copies to customers between now and Christmas. So they’re doing that in all the Hobby Lobby stores around the country, which I think is just great. I just wanted to get into people’s hands. It’s a book for Christians to deepen their faith, but also for spiritual seekers to begin to take Christmas more seriously than just a shopping holiday.
SPEAKER 04 :
Absolutely. So people can get that book at Hobby Lobby?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, if they go there and they’re a customer at Hobby Lobby, buy something, they give it to you free. Or you get it for under two bucks online.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right. So what about the Case for Miracles movie? Where can people get tickets for that and find out where it’s showing?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, if they go to thecaseformiraclesmovie.com, you can see the trailer for the movie. You can put in your zip code, find out what local theaters are showing it, and get tickets right there. So we’ve had such a good response so far that we’ve actually had theaters adding to our list every day. But it’s only in theaters December 15th through the 18th. So it’s a limited run in theaters nationwide.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay, December 15th through 18th, so people need to respond quickly to find out on that. Okay, let me ask you this, Lee. What are you hoping comes from this? Is this an evangelistic tool? Is it to encourage believers? Is it all of the above? What are you looking for and praying for?
SPEAKER 05 :
You know, the movie and the book, The Case for Christmas, are both, to my mind, serving a dual purpose, to deepen the faith them, but also to reach out to people who are spiritually confused. I hope people bring a spiritually confused friend to come with them to see the movie. I hope people get this inexpensive little book and use it as a spiritual stocking stuffer this Christmas and give it to someone they know who’s kind of spiritually confused. The gospel is in it. The evidence is in it for the reality of Christmas. It responds to all the tough questions about Christmas. And, you know, let’s seize this season. And use it for God’s glory and walk away with our faith renewed or strengthened, but also reaching out to those people we love, who God loves too. And yet they’re kind of still on the journey toward him.
SPEAKER 04 :
We are going to be calling on our folks to be praying for this movie and book, that God would use it in a powerful way. But as we close in about a minute or so that we have left, what would you say to pastors right now, how they can help with what you just described? With loved ones who don’t know Christ or Christians who need encouragement, what would you encourage them to say to their churches?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, one thing pastors can do is rent the theater. Just go to the website and you can actually take over theater for your church and say, hey, we’ve got this theater. Let’s all go and invite our spiritually curious friends. Let’s use it as an outreach. Let’s be praying for them. or a lot of churches are giving away the case for Christmas. I donated copies to my church here in Houston, Texas, so that any visitor on Christmas at our services gets a free copy of the book. And as I say, they’re designed to be inexpensive so that we can use this as a tool to reach others with the gospel.
SPEAKER 04 :
New York Times bestselling author Lee Strobel, thank you so much for joining us. I can’t wait to see the movie and read the book. God bless you, my friend. May the good hand of God be upon you and use you mightily. Merry Christmas to you. All right, friends, that wraps up this edition of Washington Watch. Have a fantastic weekend. We’ll see you next week.
SPEAKER 01 :
Washington Watch with Tony Perkins is brought to you by Family Research Council. To support our efforts to advance faith, family and freedom, please text GIVE to 67742. That’s GIVE to 67742. Portions of the show discussing candidates are brought to you by Family Research Council Action. For more information, please visit TonyPerkins.com.
