This episode of To All The Dreamers focuses on the art of following one’s God-given calling despite seemingly insurmountable odds. Through heartfelt storytelling and candid moments, Phil Cunningham shares his personal and professional journey in producing the ‘David’ film. Filled with anecdotes of divine intervention and the power of belief, Dr. Chrysandra Brunson and Phil explore themes of perseverance, community, and the transformative power of faith-driven dreams.
Welcome, everyone, to The Calling’s radio show to all the dreamers. I’m your radio host, Dr. Chrysandra Brunson, and it is such an honor to be with all of you today. You know, at The Calling, we have realized that so many people are afraid to go after the dreams that God has put inside each one of our hearts because they are afraid to fail. And that is just plain wrong because if God has given us a dream and we’re not living it out, we are wasting it, and we do not want to die with regret. That’s why at The Calling, we love to inspire, empower, and equip people to after Jesus’ calling on their lives to reap the best kind of eternal legacy possible to have immediate impact on themselves and their families. We love to do this through so many different avenues from custom tools and programs, conferences, workshops, but especially through this radio show where we’re able to have world-renowned guests to be able to share how they’re going after their God-given dreams and how you can do the same. Today is no exception. We are so honored to have the one and only Phil Cunningham on with us. Phil, welcome to the show.
PHIL CUNNINGHAM :
Thank you so much. It’s honestly such a privilege to be with you today. Thank you for having us.
CHRYSANDRA :
This is such a blessing. And, Phil, you’re joining us all the way from the other side of the world. Can you share where you’re tuning in from?
PHIL CUNNINGHAM :
I’m talking to you from Cape Town, South Africa, the beautiful continent of Africa. I love it here. It’s a gorgeous, gorgeous place to live.
CHRYSANDRA :
And, Phil, it’s on my bucket list. So I might have to come visit your guys’ studios here pretty soon.
PHIL CUNNINGHAM :
You’re more than welcome. You’re more than welcome.
CHRYSANDRA :
Thank you, Phil. And people, they’re tuning in, they’re listening. They’ve heard your name before, but can you just share with our listeners some of the leadership positions that you have held and that you are currently leading right now?
PHIL CUNNINGHAM :
Yeah, of course. So as you were saying, my name is Phil Cunningham. I’m one of the directors on the David Animated feature film. And my wife, Jackie, and myself founded Sunrise Animation Studios over 30 years ago. So this is the animation studio that crafted and made the David movie. And then in my individual capacity, directing the movie with Brent Storrs, just to give you a bit of context of who I am and where I fit into this equation. But there’s so many incredibly talented people who’ve worked on this movie from 32 countries around the world, nearly up to 500 people. So I’m just one small part of an amazing project, yeah.
CHRYSANDRA :
Oh, well, we’re so honored for your leadership, Phil, and just being able to have this dream inside of your heart. Can you just share some of the so we’re going to talk all about this new movie coming out throughout our show. But what other movies have you also produced?
PHIL CUNNINGHAM :
Yeah, in our minds, quickly to talk about that, always we were building towards the David movie. So I’ll answer your question, but I’ll get there.
ADVERTISER :
Yes.
PHIL CUNNINGHAM :
So 30 years ago, for me, I was coming down a beautiful river in Zimbabwe called the Zambezi River. You could renew for four days, you wouldn’t see a human being. And just looking up at the stars and the thunderstorms and the elephants and the buffalo, I was like, I fell in love with God. I was just like, wow, he’s so adventurous, so expansive, so full of joy. And I was like, amazing. And then I was reading David’s story. And in the book of Acts it said, I found in David, son of Jesse, a man after my own heart. And I was just thinking, wow, if we could tell a story about David, it’ll give us a glimpse of God’s heart. So amazing. That’s where the idea was birthed. And then that led on to building the studio. But we didn’t want to go straight to David because for me, David was like an Arc de Triomphe in the middle of Paris. Jackie, my wife and I were in Paris a few years ago and looking up at the Arc de Triomphe, the scale of it, the attention to detail, incredible. And of course, in this space, you’ve got office blocks and factories. And as filmmakers, we could churn money and just make those kind of buildings or we could make after trims. So in our minds, we were heading towards the David movie, but we really wanted to be Pixar, Disney, DreamWorks level quality. And we knew we couldn’t go there overnight. So we started building, I think a very fun little brand called Jungle Beat. We’ve done two movies, little movies, and there’s a YouTube channel, which is crazy with 13 million subscribers now on the Jungle Beat channel. But Jungle Beat was all like kind of crawl, walk, run, a journey towards the David movie. So the goal was always the David movie. So it was a long-winded way of answering your question.
CHRYSANDRA :
No, that’s well, we love that. And actually, the next question, just carrying on with that tune, Phil, is just you personally, just being a little boy, looking back on your life, just seeing how God would drop all these seeds in your heart to now be doing what you’re doing today. Can you just take us back when you were little and how what were those seeds and how did they grow as you went through different seasons?
PHIL CUNNINGHAM :
Thank you so much. Yeah, it’s interesting. I was reading a thing of Eugene Peterson. He was talking about David growing up in the wild, being a shepherd with his sheep. And out there, they formed what he called a God-dominated imagination. And when he went down to the Valley of Eli, everyone else had a Goliath-dominated imagination. And what Eugene Peterson was saying, it was out in the wilderness that David, his imagination of God grew and his faith in God grew. So for me, I grew up in a place where there was no movies, no TV, out in the bush, in the wilderness, and it was there that I fell in love with God, as I was saying earlier, but also… My imagination of God just really grew and he started to drop seeds. I can remember being in the Zambezi one day and a lion did a mock charge and watching this lion come running towards you, watching its muscles and it’s the power of that lion. I was like, you know, God has called the lion of Judah. And I was also thinking, about david fighting lives was like it’s just incredible and that dropped a seed in my mind was like connecting me with david and god that that moment the one huge thing i’ve learned along the way just to share is like um and i hope you know as people listen to this they can i’m sure they’ll identify if you look at joseph he had this dream and then god sends him off to slavery and prison to reach his dream you know moses has a calling and he’s off to the desert for 40 years before he comes back to to fulfill his calling david is anointed and god sends him to the wilderness for seven years you know in this journey of mine going from a dream of making david to making david finishing it now 30 years later one thing that works on the way is like god takes us through wilderness and through deserts but it’s not by accident it’s part of his tapestry and he’s really growing humility in your heart so i love what you said about your podcast and this this this whole thing because people to follow their dreams when you do that don’t be surprised if you end up in the wilderness for a
CHRYSANDRA :
We love that, Phil. Is there a certain scene in your mind? I know that you just shared with the lion, but just with your family, some tokens of wisdom that they spoke into you when you were little to identify that you were one day going to be a director.
PHIL CUNNINGHAM :
That’s so cool. I’ll actually start with my whole family is amazing, but I want to talk about my mom, my mother. So she was an incredible woman, so inspirational. And I can remember when I was 14, 16, she’s like, Phil, by your age, David was fighting good life. Daniel was in the lion’s den. You need to get out there and live a life of adventure. Put your hope in God.
CHRYSANDRA :
She was like… Who would be saying this to you when you were little?
PHIL CUNNINGHAM :
I was like, this is awesome. And she said, when you’re a teenager, this is when you start now. You don’t wait until you’re an adult. God wants to work with you right now. I think she just opened all of us children, our imagination to possibility, to what God could do. And if you put your faith in God, the adventures he could take you on. And I’ll just say that that really flows into the movie, actually, because in our movie, David’s mom is Nitzivit, as in the Bible. And in the Psalms, I love it because David says, I served you as my mother did. So we know there was genuinely a connection with his mother. His great grandmother was Ruth. And I just love the fact that David’s mom played such a, you know, plays such a big role in this movie because it connects me with my own mother and an amazing role she played in my life and so many young people’s lives, you know. And I was thinking, You know, often movies kind of stereotype moms into a corner, like a protective corner. Of course, there’s that aspect. But, you know, mothers do so much more. And just the inspiration they bring to the world, the courage they show, the faith they show. And in the David movie, you’ll see how his mom leads by example. She’s a woman of faith.
CHRYSANDRA :
I have goosebumps, Phil, just of you helping shape a new identity over women and especially over mothers and how that impacted your heart. It’s very inspiring. And so, Phil, we know on these journeys of going after our God-given dreams and what the Lord’s put in there, just as you were saying, there’s usually this calling and then a whole bunch of delays and a whole scenic route to go on. And lots of giants to go, you know, that come up. And this film is a perfect example of that. I’m so grateful to be able to have had a pre-screening. And it’s one of, I think, probably my top film now ever. But just to overcome those giants, Phil, can you take us to a time where there was a Goliath trying to stop you from pursuing your calling and a massive one. And you didn’t know how you were going to get through, but you did through faith.
PHIL CUNNINGHAM :
So I’ll give you, there’s so many moments, but I’ll try and just choose one. So financing an independent feature film like this is a huge undertaking because it’s just way over like 60 million US dollars. And I can remember speaking to one of my friends and he was saying, Phil, this is like saying you’re going to start a Ferrari factory in your backyard. The day you make this work, I’ll go eat my hats. Yeah.
CHRYSANDRA :
You want to eat your hat?
PHIL CUNNINGHAM :
He says he’ll go eat his hat the day this happens, you know. What I learned along the way, there were so many people who were like, doomsday, you’ll never do it. It’s impossible. It’s like, you’ll never get there. And on that journey, there were definitely setbacks. Like there were moments where the funding was there and then it wasn’t there and then it was there and then it wasn’t there. And you’ve got a team of 300 people who all, you know, looking to you to make sure that the project keeps going. So there were massive… But then God brings along you, alongside you, the most incredible people of faith. So on the investment side, we had amazing people who came in at the right moment, took huge risks, huge faith on their own side to help the project take its next step and move forward. And, you know, I was really struck. My wife, Jackie, has got a saying. It’s an African proverb, actually. If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. And as you face all those setbacks, I think it was just going together that helped us keep going and get through many, many setbacks. But, yeah, I think just getting to the climbing this mountain and then you lose the funding and you’re like, is this over? Is this dream gone? You know, and then actually it comes back in another way, which you didn’t expect. Yeah. Yeah.
CHRYSANDRA :
Well, I think you just touched on a huge giant that many of us dreamers come along, you know, just that giant of financial means and resources and to have that responsibility of not only a few different team members, but for you just to voice over 300 at times, even 500 at times. So that’s it. That’s a huge weight, but to see your faithfulness and to keep on moving forward and, Was there like something that echoed in your heart to be able to keep on moving forward in the midst of those in the roads?
PHIL CUNNINGHAM :
No, for sure. At the moment, I remember reading a poem, which was a beautiful poem. It was about a little boy building a sandcastle on the beach with his dad. You know you build a sandcastle to fight the tide, but the tide always wins. And then you build it beautifully, but then the tide wins. And then the little boy in the poem goes into the sea cottage with his dad and has hot chocolate. And the point of the poem is, as we’re going about our things in life, whatever we’re doing, sportsman, doctor, filmmaker, musician, you’re building a sandcastle. But the biggest thing that’s happening is you’re building a relationship with your dad. You’re learning to have fun with your dad, to realize he’s your best friend, that he helps you build your sandcastle. And I realized, to put it in perspective, that the David movie is just a sandcastle, that we’re having fun building. We had a lot of fun building. But it gave me a context to get to know my real dad, my father in heaven, and just have fun with him. And I think that really helped me keep going, to put it in perspective. And then another beach analogy, walking along the beach, picking up one grain of sand and saying, if this grain of sand represents 70 years, this life on earth, the beach where we are here is four kilometers long. There’s trillions of 70s. That’s eternity. And I was like, wow, when you just put that in perspective, there’s a verse in the Bible that says our light and momentary afflictions are achieving for us a weight of glory. Just to get that perspective when you’re in the middle of the heat and things are going wrong and it’s not working out, it’s like, it’s just one grain of sand, you know, which is eternity. And actually you’ve got, you’re building a sandcastle with your dad and that’s the real value. At the end of baking the David movie, I think it’s how my relationship with God, how I’ve learned that he’s my best friend, that I’m connected with him. That’s incredible. Like to get that out of the journey, you know, you’ve got to go on the journey to get it, to get, to find that. Yeah.
CHRYSANDRA :
We love it so much. And there’s so much wisdom that can be gained just even from just that perspective, I think for our whole lives, Phil. And I know that everyone tuning in, it makes us want to go spend some intimate time this moment with our, with our dad, our heavenly father. We need to take a short break, but everyone, we, you are listening to all the dreamers radio show. We’ll be right back. Twist and shout with Lee & Co. They are the premier oldies band delivering the rock and roll vibes you’ve been missing. Great songs, great memories. Book them at LeeAndCo.com. Hi guys, this is Chrysandra Brunson, host of To All The Dreamers. I am so happy to introduce personal training, nutritional guidance, and behavioral change coaching. Healthy, happy, and heavenly for your wellness, spirit, soul, and body. Contact Mimi Kroger at healthyhappyandheavenly.com. Continue to grow in the calling God has for you through ORU Online. You can earn your degree without changing your busy schedule. 100% online and 100% on your time. Learn more today. ORU.edu slash calling. At Ignite Brilliance Coaching, you will get 34 years of science teaching, a decade of university-level instruction, and over 10 years of instructional coaching to empower educators with the tools, mindset, and confidence to thrive. Contact Ignite Brilliance Coaching on Facebook. This is The Calling on Crawford Broadcasting, the show where marketplace leaders share their stories of faith, bridging the gap between your career and your God-given calling. Listen every weekday or become a sponsor and help other people live out their God-given calling. We are back. Thank you fo Dreamers radio show. I’m director of the new David Phil, we are so honored t you and you just have been captivating our hearts with just the our heavenly father’s love and affection for each one of us and the dreams that he has inside of our hearts we are so honored to have you on and bill you are coming to us from south africa which i think is a a bucket list location for many of our dreamers hearts. Just before we went to break, you were talking about how to be able to face these giants and how you have been able to overcome them. And just seeing that perspective of God’s love for us helps us be able to overcome. So we know that in the midst, you know, we all pray for miracles and we want to be able to see these miracles. But to be in a situation to need them is oftentimes nothing that we want. But can you just take us on this journey of producing the David film? just miracle situation where only Jesus could have performed it and be able to have his fingerprint for this dream to come to be. Is there a situation that comes to mind?
PHIL CUNNINGHAM :
Yeah, totally. And I’ll try to describe it to you a little bit. The one thing I’d say for anyone who’s following a dream, there’s a cool thing that Winston Churchill said that success is going from one failure to another without losing enthusiasm. So I think on any journey, you’ve got to be prepared to fail and to learn from failing and to fail again. So that’s one thing I’ll just share. Like, don’t be afraid of failure. You know, you’ve got to get out there. If you want to learn to surf, you’ve got to get on the waves and surf and you’re going to fall off. But that’s how you’re going to learn, you know. But along the way, I think the biggest miracle, which I can only give credit to God on was, and I’ll start by saying when David was in the wilderness, it says that God drew mighty men to him. And on this movie, What I saw happen, the biggest obstacle was to make a movie that we really wanted to be like the Arc de Triomphe, like genuinely compete with Disney movies, Pixar movies. So this is huge because even if you’ve got the money, you’ve now put all the ingredients together in a way, you know, money’s only one side of it. There’s the huge part of creativity. And what we saw was this incredible magnetic pull of God bringing people to work on the project, which was miraculous. Like our head of story was 20 years at DreamWorks as head of story. Our director of photography was 20 years, sorry, at Pixar. Our director of photography was 20 years at DreamWorks. One of our character designers was an amazing Spanish designer called Boca Montora, who’s super well-known in the industry. On the music side, a guy called Joe Trapanesi did the score, and he was involved in The Greatest Showman and many other amazing scores, you know? So what I saw on this journey and the biggest, and I wouldn’t say it was a setback, but one of the biggest challenges was how are you genuinely going to make a movie that competes on the world stage that is the best of the best and actually hopefully even raises the bar of filmmaking. When we were starting out, I was like, we’re in the tip of Africa. How’s this going to happen? Yeah. And just to see God to do that story. And I was reading a story, I couldn’t even tell you about it, about a guy called C.T. Studd. He was a missionary in Africa. And he, amazing guy. When he got into his old age, he lost all his teeth. And they said to him, you have to go back to England by boat to get the dentist to sort out your teeth. He said, no, I don’t have time for that. God will bring me false teeth to Africa. And they said, it’ll never happen. Two weeks later, there was a traveling dentist on a horseback who came out with his false teeth and they exactly fitted C.T. Studd’s mouth. And I remember my mom telling me that story and then me reading it. And I was like, wow, God can bring miracles even where you don’t expect it. And all that to say, the team that got built around us, the people that got involved in this project, it was miraculous. Like, I know it’s beyond us, beyond our ability to build a team like that. Impossible. And that was one of the biggest obstacles. And I just saw daily, like literally daily miracles happening of God bringing the right people at the right time. And you could only acknowledge, well, this is way bigger than me. Something bigger than me is happening here.
CHRYSANDRA :
And we can’t wait for everyone to be able to know how they can go watch the David film. We’re going to be talking about that here in a little bit. Just in directing it, Phil, What was your most favorite part of not only directing, but also just your most captivated scene in the film that you’re excited for viewers to be able to watch?
PHIL CUNNINGHAM :
Sure. I’d say every scene in the movie.
CHRYSANDRA :
That’s how I feel, too. I was just entranced with wisdom inside of each one.
PHIL CUNNINGHAM :
I’ll pull three quickly for you. Obviously, the scene with David and Goliath is so iconic. And so I just loved that moment in the movie and the way we try to work it out. And on that note, by the way, we did four trips to Israel. to really do our research properly because we really wanted it to be built into authentically into the Bible and into the geography. And we went to the Valley of Eli. They’ve done a recent excavation, the city of two gates. And we knew where the Philistines were camped and where the Israelites were camped. We walked the exact line David would have walked. And as you go down into the river, the acoustics of that river, genuinely the sound of doves, I mean, it just goes quiet. And you’ll see when people get to watch the movie, they’ll see this because when David goes down that river to pick up those rocks, it’s a moment of quiet and he connects with God. We’d never have had that moment if we didn’t go to Israel and actually walk that line that David walked. So that’s… A very special moment in the movie for me because not only is it iconic, but it came from something very special that we actually experienced. I love, there’s a song where David is being pursued and hunted, even though he doesn’t deserve it. And he’s crying out. There’s a song. It’s beautiful. And he’s saying, why God? Why have you forsaken me, basically? And I love that because It shows you we don’t have to get our act together to God, sanitize our approach. David is just so raw and honest like a child. He’s like, my God, why have you forsaken me? That’s what I love about David’s story, you know, is that he just gives us permission to be childlike in our relationship with God. So I love that because. All of us have to face suffering, have to face loss, and it’s okay to say, why God? And I think God can cope with that. You’re allowed to say, why God? You don’t have to, like, sanitize. And I love that moment because David just – and his psalms are like that. He’s so honest. When he’s happy, he’s happy. When he’s sad, he’s sad. When he’s fearful, he talks out his fear, you know. So I love that moment in the movie. And then the last thing I love is the end, because in the movie, it’s what we call a testing arc. Most movies have got a positive change arc where your hero starts here and changes. David is a testing arc, like a movie called Hacksaw Ridge is like that. in a testing of the world around your hero changes. And what I love about this movie, David is trying to get people to believe in God, but they keep looking at him. He kills Goliath. Surely they’re going to believe in God. No, they look at David. David’s the hero. He’s like, no, no, I’m not the hero. God’s the hero. But by the end of the movie, you start to see the people in the world around him have changed and they start to see God as the hero. And that’s where they start to put their faith, not in David, in God. And that’s why I love that moment, because it’s like for all of us, Don’t look to a human, look to God. And he’s your best friend and he can come through for you. And that’s what I love about the end of the movie is I think, I hope that message lands. It’s like, David’s not the hero, God’s the hero of this movie.
CHRYSANDRA :
Yeah. We love it so much, Phil. And we don’t know where time goes, but there are, it goes by so quick, but we want you to come back whenever you’re available.
ADVERTISER :
Thank you.
CHRYSANDRA :
Before we go, we do have a couple of questions for you. We just know that there’s so many listeners tuning in and just one in particular that they’re just at the end of their rope and they are so frustrated with the Lord is in this turmoil of a dream and don’t know how to get out of that pit per se. What would you tell them? Just wisdom and to have the courage to go after their God given dream and the importance of it.
PHIL CUNNINGHAM :
So the two things I’d say is one is you’re not alone. Joseph was there. David was there. Moses was there. So take courage from that. You’re not the first person to find. But then what I want to say, what I learned in my life, God can turn water into wine. And one day, there’s a beautiful saying that one day of God’s favor is worth a lifetime of work. And we know with Joseph’s story, it says he hardly had time to clean and shave. And he was next thing, he was president of Egypt, basically. So, yeah. When you think about it, God can work miracles. And in my life and in my heart, I’ve seen him turn water into wine. So I really encourage you just trust in God. He’ll turn what looks like water into the wine and the best wine.
CHRYSANDRA :
That is so powerful, Phil. And yeah, that’s just so far. I never caught those details about Joseph that he barely had time to get prepared to become prime minister. So be ready. Be ready. We are so intrigued and so excited to have everyone come out for this film. Where can we do that and what can we be prepared for on the grand opening of this movie?
PHIL CUNNINGHAM :
Thank you. Thank you so much. It’s going to be in cinemas all over the US and Canada on the 19th of December. And people can go to angel.com slash David. And that’s where you can buy tickets or you can go to the normal cinema sites and you can start buying tickets there. But 19th of December in cinemas. And you can buy tickets on angel.com slash David.
CHRYSANDRA :
Perfect, perfect. And we want to know, Phil, what is on the horizon for Sunrise Studios after this film?
PHIL CUNNINGHAM :
We’re working on two movies. One is Allegorical, which is also an animated feature film, but it’s a bit like Narnia or C.S. Lewis in the sense that it’s allegorical. And then the other one we’re going for and we’re developing is a story on Esther because it would be so cool to do a movie about a heroine. And that movie set up – it’s a movie waiting to be made, that story. So that’s our next goal is to do a story on Esther.
CHRYSANDRA :
Well, I know all – you know, I think we’ve all been captivated, but especially the ladies just hearing that. We’re all like, yes, we can’t wait. And we – We’re so grateful for your heart, Phil, of just following Jesus fearlessly. And for anyone that wants to get in touch with you, Phil, in Sunrise Studios to be able to help invest and to come alongside for these future movies, how can they do that?
PHIL CUNNINGHAM :
Okay, so we’ve got our Sunrise website, and my email address is phil, P-H-I-L, at sunrise.co.za.
CHRYSANDRA :
That is very special. Well, we thank you, Phil, for being Jesus’s dreamer and challenge everyone tuning in today. Please just take heed, take heart of everything that Phil has been able to instill in our hearts today of just knowing that God has a unique calling for your life. And through this film, David, we are meant to have that courage and to be able to Know that if God is for us, who can be against us? As Ephesians 4 says, as a prisoner of the Lord, we urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. Till next time, dreamers, keep dreaming big.
