Join Barbara Carmack as she delves into the biblical significance of Revelation, exploring how its message can transform our understanding of faith and grace. Through personal stories and scripture, this episode offers a fresh lens on age-old teachings, revealing how an open heart can uncover divine truths. Whether you’re familiar with these concepts or exploring them for the first time, you’ll find new insights into God’s unwavering love and the power of living a life devoted to faith.
Welcome to Call to Freedom with Barbara Carmack. This is Jimmy Lakey, and I’m delighted that you are joining us for this half hour. You can reach Call to Freedom at Box 370367, Denver, Colorado, 80237, or by going to the website at www.freedomstreet.org. if you want to leave a message or order a word powered daily reading bible guide or a freedom street express newsletter you can call us toll free at 1-877-917-7256 and leave your name and address including your zip code If you want to talk to Barbara right now, she is expecting your call. You may call that same toll-free number, 1-877-917-7256 to speak to her. And now, let’s join Barbara in the studio.
SPEAKER 02 :
Thank you, Jimmy Lakey. I love Christmas music. But you’re probably like me, though, when I hear Christmas music through Christmas Eve and Christmas Day and then everything’s gone. All the Christmas music is gone. gone some of you probably play it to the end of the of the year of december yes uh well welcome to call to freedom what a beautiful day here in denver colorado it’s got to be 65 degrees it’s just i actually don’t remember being here at this time of year and having such mild weather and it’s been colder in oklahoma than it has been here yes i’ve been very very grateful Truly grateful.
SPEAKER 04 :
Just thankful for these gorgeous days and the sunshine. So warm.
SPEAKER 02 :
I remember one Christmas you came. You had a brand new car. Yes. Oh, it was so snowy and icy. We lived in Aurora. We had had a really difficult time. already in december winter it was so cold it was like 20 degrees and it was it was maybe below zero when this car hit you in the cul-de-sac it didn’t just bend it cracked shattered it shattered yeah everything just shattered like it was just so cold i know and we went to court I’ll never forget that. Matthew went with Darren and me because this lady we had previously lived in her home, which they had agreed we could paint. Well, we painted a wonderful deep purple next to the grand piano, which aubergine. Oh, my goodness. And so she didn’t like aubergine in her house. It was not approved. Bless her heart. Oh, yes. God bless her. So she even brings the gallon of paint with her in the courtroom. Well, by the time Darren got through and she was just a precious lady, I think she had had too much to drink, too. And the judge saw this. He says, Mr. Carmack, I believe you. Case dismissed. Right. And we went out into that cold, and Kimberly, I was shivering to the car. It could have been the adrenaline, but it also was that cold. So I’m grateful for 65 degrees.
SPEAKER 04 :
I love that you have so many memories of the favor of God on your life.
SPEAKER 02 :
Oh, yes. Amen. Friend, may he work in you what is pleasing to him because you know when he’s working in you, it’s perfect. It’s good and perfect and it’s going to make you complete through Jesus Christ to whom be glory forever and ever. That’s from Hebrews 13, 21. But it also reminds me of Philippians 2, 13. He is at work in us both to will and to work for his good pleasure. Amen. I want, I want to please God, Kimberly. I really do in my words and my action, my thoughts to please him.
SPEAKER 04 :
I think we don’t allow him to work in us and to have his way in our life. You know, Romans 12 that says to, to be that sacrifice, let yourself be that sacrifice, a living sacrifice for him. Just let your body be his body that he can direct you and guide you. And I think we have a hard time doing that because we don’t know how good he really is. When he says that he’s working for his good pleasure, it’s really for ours, too. We don’t know what pleasure is. Until we hook in to how good he is.
SPEAKER 02 :
How good he is. And he’s always inviting us to know more of him. More of him. That’s right. More of him. And what a time to learn about more of him. Our verses for this week are from Revelation 320. If you’ve been listening, you know that we’re in Revelation. Look, I stand at the door and knock. And this is from the New Living Translation. If you hear my voice and open the door, see, we’re the ones that open the door, friends. He doesn’t open the door. He’s a gentleman. Open the door. I will come in and we will share a meal together. And in the Message Translation, Revelation 3, 19 through 22, I love the message. The people I love, I call to account. I prod, I correct and guide so that they’ll live at their best. Up on your feet then, about face, run after God. Look at me, and this is Jesus speaking. I stand at the door and knock. If you hear me call and open the door, I’ll come in and sit down to supper with you. Conquerors will sit alongside me at the head table, just as I, having conquered, took the place of honor at the side of my Father. That’s my gift to the conquerors. Are your ears awake? Listen. Listen to wind words. the spirit blowing through the churches. That’s so beautiful. Wow. Right. Yes. While we were talking about the churches.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes. And revelation. And just to, to say a small introduction about revelation, the, the idea of how good God is sometimes, um, is confusing to us because we’ll read some of these things in revelation, the four horsemen and the bowls of wrath that are poured out. And, and, Uh, the, the lake of fire, how Hades and death are thrown into the lake of fire forever. And it all sounds a little bit scary and it doesn’t sound, it doesn’t sound good, kind, uh, merciful. It might not sound that way. And so then we’ve got this paradox and that might be the part of us that doesn’t trust how good he really is. But revelation, the book of revelation. That word apocalypsis, apocalypsis, it means to lift the veil or to uncover what is hidden. So the things that we think are apocalyptic, those ideas of zombies and some of the apocalyptic movies that we’ve seen. scene come out of Hollywood that looks so scary and just gruel. Anyway, those images come to our mind pretty automatically because of what our society has fed us and even what the church has fed us. But Revelation simply means unveiling. Apocalypsis means the unveiling and showing what’s undercover, what’s hidden, and it’s good.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 04 :
It’s good. It’s Jesus, and he’s so good.
SPEAKER 02 :
Take the cover off. Yes. That’s right. It’s like when you open a new dish that you’re serving or something, and it’s been baking. You take that cover off of that dish so you can experience the good stuff inside. Amen. Boy, we’ve been eating well. Yes.
SPEAKER 04 :
And so we’ve had this kind of in-the-box thinking of Revelation that’s maybe not as beautiful as we would want Heaven to be for us. But 1 John 4.18 tells us that perfect love casts out all fear. So we don’t have to be afraid of what we’re reading in the book of Revelation. I used to read the Bible and try to translate it all very literally. I loved getting into the prophetic books that would talk about revelation and the end times, the end time books and really look into what does this mean? Who is the antichrist? Where is he coming from? What are these 10 horns and these, what, what is Babylon? Where is Babylon? You know, and looking into all those things and, And then I realized that’s not perfect love for me. That’s not my way of finding perfect love that casts out all fear. That might get my stomach all tied up in knots if I keep going on that search. And so that is why I started searching a little bit differently and looking into different areas of, that are more metaphorical, that apply to me today. I’m not trying to say that Revelation is only written for me personally today, and that’s how I hope you see it too, and that that’s the only way to look at it. That’s not what I’m saying. I know that there is a good possibility that this is a literal prophetic word for something in the future. But trying to think of how it’s all going to come, how it’s going to play out in the future, it does not bring me peace. And that is not casting out all fear for me. So if I take these words and apply them just to me today, that is more of a peaceful place to come from. So we started reading the letters to the different churches that are written in Revelation. It starts in Revelation 2. Yeah. And if we look at those letters as if they are different seasons of our lives, as they are different ways that we have experienced life, the way we start out completely in love with the Lord when we first get to know him, and then we might lose our first love for him. That’s Ephesus and Smyrna. We were talking about the suffering and the persecution that some people go through. We talked about that yesterday.
SPEAKER 02 :
Being crushed. And we realize that crushed is also mentioned in Isaiah 53, verse 5, that he was crushed and he was bruised. And so we, boy, it’s very difficult to say that, but we are here yielding ourselves to be crushed so that the fragrance of Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ can be can be smelled by people around us, not hatred and not angst.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes. I have a beautiful friend who her prayer on every card that she writes and every note that she leaves for me, she says, may we be broken bread and poured out wine for Jesus and for others. And that is really what I want. That’s what I want with my life to be broken bread and poured out wine. That’s right. And it’s okay to be caught up in the crushing process. It can hurt and we can grieve it, but we can look forward. That’s right.
SPEAKER 02 :
It’s such a better position, Kimberly, because as I was thinking of the tragic murder of Rob Reiner and his wife, When they went to the party the night before, their son, Nick, came, I guess, dragging along later, and they asked if it would be okay if Nick would come to the party. Well, it just brought… I mean, the people just became… Oh, what do you call it? It’s like a fortress. They were… And they were not just shocked, but they were preparing for someone who they know had been on drugs for many years. So they were preparing themselves, you know, for somebody that might be violent, that might have a problem. problem during the party and everybody was up in arms and i think how sad when you are coming to a party do the people look forward to you being there or do they get up in arms and they’re ready for you they’re prepared to come against anything that you might say that would be contradictory to a joyful party a christmas party and that’s what happened they got into an argument And some people are they like being in the argument position. I know some people. They just like arguing. Well, that’s not God’s way. That’s not Jesus way.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, I think you’re actually talking about me. Okay. But I say that because you and I used to butt heads a lot earlier in our lives. And as a teenager, I think I was the arguer that would come up and argue with you. And bless your heart, you’ve endured much.
SPEAKER 02 :
You have endured much. Well, and you’ll remember the times when Darren says, you go in that room and Barbara, you go in the other room. You both need to take some time. Think about this. Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER 04 :
But I just turned to Romans 12 again because that just reminded me. And in the Passion Translation, it says, I encourage you to surrender yourselves to God to be his sacred living sacrifices and live in holiness, experiencing holiness. All that delights his heart. It’s it’s something to be thinking about delighting someone else’s heart and thinking that you’re giving up your own delight. But when God’s heart is delighted. Oh. It’s your own heart, too. Yes. His heart is for you. His heart wants you to experience delight like he does. And so when we are looking to delight his heart and to be that sacrifice for him, to be crushed, to be bruised and pressed in this world and to experience all of that along with him. Oh, my goodness. The delights that he gives us are. Well, we can’t even prepare ourselves for it.
SPEAKER 02 :
No, that’s right. The third church mentioned here, we’re just going to go through them pretty quickly today because there’s so much else to cover, is Pergamum. And what you were saying, Kimberly, about being crushed, about sacrificing, some of you listening have not had a, quote, good marriage. You’ve been crushed and you’ve been hurt and you’re wanting to get out of it. If you will realize that Jesus is your bridegroom… And the reason why you’re talking about marriage is because Pergamum means married. And it’s elevated because you’re going to elevate yourself out of this world, out of this situation, because you’re going to love that spouse. You’re going to love that spouse and give that spouse grace. And you’re going to accept the fact that you’re the bride of Jesus Christ. And you’re going to live in that realization, growing in praise, growing in favor, because he’s elevated you and seated you at the right hand of God the Father. Wow. Such a great, great thing to think about.
SPEAKER 04 :
I do want to say that I love the fact that there are a few marriages out there that are beautiful, really great examples. And thank you for those of you, the few of you out there that are standing strong in those beautiful examples. But for those who have had really difficult relationships in marriages and for those who do not, they haven’t experienced marriage yet. We can also look at this as being in a relationship with a work with your work and or with your parents, with your children. There are relationships that challenge us, your relationship with your church. And we tend to give our loyalties to those relationships. If we have not been married, then we’re loyal to something else in life. And that can also produce a crushing. It can disappoint and discourage us. So any relationship that might look like it’s painful for us, the tendency in Pergamum and in this letter to Pergamum in Revelation, is to maybe try to find your own way to satisfy yourself. And that can happen by partaking of, they call it partaking of things sacrificed to idols. You partake in the things of this world that are idolatrous. You might give in to sexual immorality. And be stuck, even be stuck in tradition when that happens to you. But God is constantly speaking and wooing us back to him. He’s so full of grace and mercy. And this letter to Pergamum is actually to say, don’t forget. That you are from an elevated place. That’s right. Don’t forget whose you are.
SPEAKER 02 :
Whose you are. That’s right. The next one, number four church is Thyatira. And it means an odor of affliction. Wow. Being married to Jesus is not easy. It’s just not easy. It’s not an easy journey. Lots of ups and downs and hellos and goodbyes and great blessing and loss. And we must learn to praise and overcome the hardships. We must give it all to Jesus. And so that Thyatira really means sacrifice. You’re going to sacrifice everything. In that life, you’re going to crucify yourself with Christ. I am crucified with Christ. Nevertheless, I live. Yet not I, but Christ lives in me. And the life that I live in the flesh, I live how? By the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me.
SPEAKER 04 :
Did you see that? Okay, so I was going to tell you earlier, if you see something flying around, don’t panic. There’s something right here at our table that’s flying around us.
SPEAKER 03 :
So long as it’s not a flying monkey. No, let me tell you what it is. What is it? It’s a ladybug. Oh. It’s a ladybug. I don’t know how this ladybug got into the studio.
SPEAKER 02 :
We’ve got to get her in the cup of our hands when we leave and just set her free. There it is. There it is.
SPEAKER 1 :
Oh.
SPEAKER 02 :
See, it really is a ladybug. I wasn’t lying to you. Oh, my goodness. How precious is that? So we’re going to try to capture it and take it outside because it’s not going to live here very long. Anyway, what a fun surprise in our radio studio today. Oh, so remember Thyatira’s sacrifice and the seasons. Remember seasons. If you’re going through a season of hardship, remember the seasons come and go. God is going to bless you. He’s going to give you that harvest. He really is as you’re as faithful to Jesus Christ. You be faithful.
SPEAKER 04 :
Let me just say, as a Thyatira person, sometimes the sacrifices we make seem continual and they go on and on for decades in our lives. And when that happens, sometimes we can become tolerant of things that we should not be tolerant of. And this letter to Thyatira is saying, you have come to the place where you’re even tolerating Jezebel now. Yes. So come back. Come back. Arise. Shine. Let your light shine and don’t tolerate the darkness. Don’t tolerate the Jezebel.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s right.
SPEAKER 04 :
And let yourself be purified. Let yourself become holy. Remind yourself of whose you are and don’t tolerate Jezebel.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes. That would be my word for Thyatira. That’s right. Number five church is Sardis. This is a real interesting one because a sardine. Are you talking about sardines? No, no, no. The gem. There is a gem.
SPEAKER 01 :
The sardis.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, it’s a red gem. And it really does. And when I think of sardis, I think of the blood of Jesus. Because without his blood, I wouldn’t be free. I wouldn’t be righteous. I wouldn’t be redeemed. I wouldn’t be pardoned. Oh, so much. I can go on and on. But it’s an escaped ones. You have escaped the religious bondage and you’re in need of awakening. And so, like Kimberly, like you said, arise, shine for your light has come and the glory of the Lord has risen upon you. My friend upon us. Oh, praise the Lord. Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
One of the other things that that said about the the Sardis in the letter to Sardis is that you think that you’re alive, but you’re actually dead. And I think I have found myself there where I think I’m alive and I’m going through the motions of life, but I’m not truly living. And that’s what we desire for each one of you listening, that you’re not just going through the routines and the monotony of life, but that you are truly alive, alive in Christ, alive in his light, alive in his love.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes. Now, in history, we realize that this was during the Reformation, during Martin Luther, who he hammered a New Testament grace sermon on the door. And he was tired of living under bondage. He was tired of living according to the law of the Old Testament because he realized that Jesus had fulfilled that law. He wanted to live in that age of grace, and that’s what he did. And so we call Sardis the age of reformation. We no longer want to live the way we have lived in religion.
SPEAKER 04 :
So yes, then the sixth letter to Philadelphia. Philadelphia means brotherly love. And we all learn how to love by going through all the rest of it. Yes.
SPEAKER 02 :
Even though when the Broncos played the Philadelphia Eagles, I was for the Broncos. Yes. Yes. Yes. Brotherly love. And we think of Jesus 15, John 15, 13 through 16. that you did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go forth and bear fruit and that your fruit should remain. Yes. And it’s not going to get rotten because your fruit’s going to remain and it’s going to become a great harvest. And whatever you ask in my name, I will do it. Praise the Lord. That’s wonderful.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, I’m thankful that we can each have the potential of reaching that brotherly love stage in our lives when we have actually experienced sacrifice and suffering and persecution and betrayal and coming back around to realizing, oh, okay, it’s not about me receiving love. It’s about me giving love to others. That’s right. And the last letter, this is where you have the memory verse of the week.
SPEAKER 02 :
I stand at the door and knock. And that’s the church at Laodicea. And most of you know about this. You know, the Lord is saying here, I would rather you be hot or cold, but you are lukewarm and I spew you out of my mouth. Because the church as we have known it has grown lukewarm. But out of that, it’s kind of like the phoenix arising out of burned ashes. there is a remnant that’s arising out of those ashes, and a revival is in full swing for those who believe.
SPEAKER 04 :
Right, because in that lukewarmness, that’s where Jesus is standing at the door and knocking. It’s in that letter.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, that’s good. Yes.
SPEAKER 04 :
And he says that for all of those that I dearly love, I unmask them and I train them. So I reveal to you that you are lukewarm. I reveal to you what your works are, your self-righteous works are that are not going to get you where you need to go. I’m standing right here and knocking and revealing that to you. Yes.
SPEAKER 02 :
That’s a beautiful letter. It really is a wonderful thought. We think of Laodicea, Kimberly, as something that we don’t want to be involved in. And yet when you see the end product of the Laodicean obedience and faithfulness to Jesus Christ, it’s beautiful. And I hope that we see that in these next few years, surrendering our rights to him. Don’t go back, friends. Don’t go back to that other way of life. Look ahead. Always looking ahead. Praise God. Yes. So we got through the letters. Yeah. So we look and like John, he saw a door. It was standing open in heaven. Yes. And the Lord directed him right to heaven. Do you think that’s a real thing? Did he think he went to heaven like Paul did?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, why not? I mean, I’m not going to put any limits on it because that would be trying to put God in a box.
SPEAKER 02 :
That’s true.
SPEAKER 04 :
So for me, though, that would be my open mind and my open heart to seeing him right now today in the middle of my circumstances. That are difficult in the middle of circumstances where I might see rejection, feel rejection. And that happens. That can come in through emails. It can come through letters of the mail. It can come through a phone call. It can come through interaction at the grocery store.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes. Just think how your attitude can change in an instant with a remark or something that somebody said. And you’ve got to get right on track again with Jesus. Thank you, Jesus. I’m going to choose love and grace.
SPEAKER 04 :
And that is building your life upon the rock because he is our rock. When we are built with a solid foundation of his love and his heart for us, then we are immovable. We don’t get tossed around on every bit of emotion that people that we come across or what they might be saying to us. We don’t get tossed. That’s right. We can actually know that we’re loved. And that’s what we hope for for you during this season, especially that you will know you are loved.
SPEAKER 02 :
If you would like a 2026 calendar, call the Freedom Calendar. You can call us at 1-877-917-7256 or email me, barbara at freedomstreet.org, and I’ll send it to you free of charge, postage paid. God bless you and keep you and take joy.
SPEAKER 01 :
Thank you for listening to Call to Freedom with Barbara Carmack. You may get in touch with Barbara at Call to Freedom, Box 370367, Denver, Colorado, 80237. Or you may leave your message at 1-877-917-7256. Call to Freedom is a listener-supported radio ministry. Barbara and her power partners invite you to come on board with us and become a network of hands holding up Call to Freedom ministry. Power partners support Call to Freedom with prayer and monthly financial support. You will be blessed supernaturally. Box 370-367, Denver, Colorado, 80237. Or you may email us at barbracarmack at freedomstreet.org. Until next time, remember, Jesus loves you, Barbara loves you, and take joy.
