In this episode, Mark Batterson, celebrated author and pastor, sits down with Chrysondra Brunson to discuss the winding path of life built on faith and divine inspiration. Discover how Mark transitioned from a pre-law student to an influential church leader in Washington D.C., emphasizing the significance of perseverance and trust in God’s plans. With candid reflections on failure, risk-taking, and the nurturing of a dream, Batterson reveals that pursuing one’s calling is not just about success but aligning one’s life to God’s greater vision.
00:24:11 Inspirational Closing and Contact Information
CHRYSANDRA :
Welcome, everyone, to The Calling’s radio show to all the dreamers. I’m your radio host, Chrysandra Brunson, founder and CEO of The Calling. And it is such an honor to be with all of you today. You know, at The Calling, we have realized that so many people are afraid to go after the dreams that God has put inside of their hearts because they are afraid to fail. And that is just plain wrong because if God has given us a dream and we’re not living it out, we are wasting it and we do not want to die with regret. So that’s why we love to inspire, empower, and equip people to go after God’s dreams on their lives to reap the best kind of harvest possible. of everlasting legacy, eternal legacy, to have effects on themselves and their families. And we love to do this through global conferences, workshops, seminars, and especially through this radio program to all the dreamers, having world-renowned guests share about their God-given calling and give their life-changing wisdom like we do today. The one and only Mark Batterson. Mark, welcome to the show.
MARK BATTERSON :
Oh, Chrysandra, it’s so good to be with you. What a joy. And I love being around dreamers. I love people who push me and stretch me. So this is fun.
CHRYSANDRA :
Well, we are the same. I know there’s nothing like being around a dreamer. And Mark, you really are the ultimate one. And we are just so excited to hear your heart. And can you share just some of the roles that you are playing and have played in humanity?
MARK BATTERSON :
you know, one of the hats that I wear is a pastor hat in the nation’s Capitol. Yes. Right on, right on Capitol Hill. So we started with a core group of 19 people and, uh, 27 years later, we’ve had the joy of, uh, impacting tens of thousands of people. Um, and, and we do it right here in DC, which is a pretty unique place to do what I do. Um, but then along with, uh, you know, uh, building a church and a little bit of real estate development. Uh, you know, I write books early in the morning and that’s, that’s kind of one of my callings and passions that I just absolutely love. So that’s, uh, those are a few of the hats and then, uh, and last, but absolutely not least. Cause at the end of the day, I want to be famous in my home, married, married to my wife, Laura. We have three kids. They’re actually in their 20s now. We had kids when we were kids. We got married pretty young and started a family pretty quick. But so those are a few of the different directions that I go in.
CHRYSANDRA :
Wow. Well, Mark, your obedience in the long term of just having these God-sized dreams have been able to bless people around the world. And I am one of those included and the calling and being able to just have this staple of faith of being able to see where god is leading us and to know that nothing’s impossible with him but he does want our hearts he wants us to have him at the center of it all and he does it’s encouraging to know just on the beginning journey or whatever journey we’re on um in that stage of the dream that he is faithful to complete it but it usually happens in ways we can never fathom and so Thank you for being just a hero of the faith, Mark. And it’s so exciting just to hear your passion. How did this all start? When you look back on your life when you were little, as a little guy, can you see how God was dropping in your heart to be an author, to be a pastor? What were some of those characteristics? Or was it complete opposite at the time?
MARK BATTERSON :
Well, I mean, it’s interesting. I love the question. And Graham Greene said that there’s always one moment in childhood when the door opens and lets the future in. In other words, most of us have moments as kids where God kind of reveals, hey, This might be actually the way I created you or this might be what I want you to do. And so, you know, I had a few of those moments. What’s interesting, though, is I was actually a pre-law major at the University of Chicago. So I was kind of I was going down one path over here. Yeah. And but. You know, you’re one decision away from a totally different life. And so I had this moment where I felt like God might be calling me to pastor a church and to write books. And I gave up a full ride scholarship. And it seemed like a sacrifice at the time. But I look back on it now. And, you know, there are two kinds of costs. Entrepreneurs out there will identify with this. There’s actual costs. But then there’s opportunity costs. And so in some ways, the actual cost was me giving up a full ride scholarship and transferring to a school where I could pursue the calling that was on my life. But man, the opportunity costs would have been much greater. And so I think when it comes to the calculus of making money, decisions if you’re someone who follows jesus like i do part of the calculus is the opportunity cost that uh what what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but forfeits his soul so i think uh you know, a few twists and turns along the way. And the other thing that I would say, just as an encouragement to the dreamers out there, you know, I felt called to write, but I actually took an assessment, aptitude assessment in grad school that showed a low aptitude for writing. In other words, whatever you do, don’t write books. And so I actually, I read 3,000 books before I wrote one. I did my homework, but I would also say this. God doesn’t call the qualified. He qualifies the called. And just because something is not a natural gifting, God’s power is made perfect in weakness. So when I sit down to write, Chrysandra, I take off my shoes because I feel like it’s holy ground. And I try to worship God with the 26 letters of the English alphabet. And by the time I’m done, hopefully there’s a book to show for it. So yeah. But it did take 13 years to write that first book. So don’t, if you have one of those dreams deferred, don’t give up on it unless God’s releasing you from it. You got to hang in there and play the long game.
CHRYSANDRA :
And Mark, what was your, remind us your first book that you did take 13 years to circle around and to just allow the, is it Wild Goose Chase?
MARK BATTERSON :
Well, that was the second book.
CHRYSANDRA :
Okay.
MARK BATTERSON :
And the first book was In a Pit with a Lion on a Snowy Day. Wow. And then that just kind of, Somehow that book resonated with readers, and I’ve been writing ever since, actually about a book, book and a half a year for the past 16 years. Wow. Yeah, so it’s just – it’s a joy and pretty excited about the next book. Authors are always excited about the next book, right?
CHRYSANDRA :
Yes, and we can’t wait to hear all about it, Mark. We’re so excited. But this whole – it’s such an inspiration, Mark, to know that it is – it’s a process and a great reminder that it took you 13 years, someone that we can all look up to in our faith and this faith journey. And I was – similar. It took about, yeah, 15 years to write my first book. And I think it’s just, it takes a long time to be able to see God fulfill what he has promised, but he’s, it’s like his timing is perfect when it actually happens. And Mark, when you, so becoming a pastor, that jump in between from, you said pre-law to saying yes to becoming a pastor and an author is, What did that journey look like? What were some of those moments and thoughts of saying yes to him?
MARK BATTERSON :
Yeah. Well, I had a lot of people who it didn’t make sense on paper to give up a full ride scholarship and to transfer schools. It didn’t make sense. And I mean, University of Chicago was the third ranked university that year. So it was a On paper, I was in a perfect situation, but we don’t live our lives on paper, do we? We follow the promptings of the Holy Spirit. And sometimes that means making some decisions that on paper don’t make sense, but it’s just what God’s calling you to do. And I would also say that, you know, my first attempt at planting a church was a failure. I was 22, and let’s be honest, it’s amazing how much you know when you’re 22. You have it all figured out at 22.
CHRYSANDRA :
Yes, yes.
MARK BATTERSON :
So I had a 25-year plan for a church plant, Chrysandra, that my professor gave me an A, so I’m thinking it’s got to work, right?
MARK BATTERSON :
And it did not work. We ended up failing, but here’s what I want. listeners to hear that the cure for the fear of failure is not success. The cure for the fear of failure is failure in small enough doses that you build up an immunity to it. And so there was something about that failure that, okay, well, maybe now a little bit more of my ego is out of the way and, uh, maybe now God can bless it even more. And so, um, That’s what actually, we were in Chicago at the time. I was in grad school. That’s what got us from Chicago to DC. In retrospect, I’m like, oh, I’m so grateful.
CHRYSANDRA :
Mark, that was the next question. How did the Lord shine light on DC? The nation’s capital, they say the world’s superpower is You know, looking back, it makes complete sense. Of course, there should be like a world changing church in D.C. But at the time, I’m sure it was a little miscellaneous. What were some of those pieces that you’re like, this is where God is saying this is where I want it?
MARK BATTERSON :
Well. the big picture, I would say that God wants you to get where God wants you to go more than you want to get where God wants you to go. So that’s a little bit of a tongue twister, but I believe in a God who orders footsteps and who prepares good works in advance. So I don’t think it’s up to us to kind of manufacture something or manipulate it. I think we just have to
CHRYSANDRA :
follow the promptings of the holy spirit so yes uh we ended up making one trip out to dc to visit my college roommate mark i’m gonna pause you right there because we can’t hear how this happened we need to take a short break but we’re excited we’re on the edge of our seats um we thank everyone for tuning into all the dreamers radio show we have the world-renowned mark batterson in with us stay tuned Twist and shout with Lee & Co. They are the premier oldies band delivering the rock and roll vibes you’ve been missing. Great songs, great memories. Book them at LeeAndCo.com. Hi guys, this is Chrysandra Brunson, host of To All The Dreamers. I am so happy to introduce personal training, nutritional guidance, and behavioral change coaching. Healthy, happy, and heavenly for your wellness, spirit, soul, and body. Contact Mimi Kroger at healthyhappyandheavenly.com.
CHRYSANDRA :
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CHRYSANDRA :
At Ignite Brilliance Coaching, you will get 34 years of science teaching, a decade of university-level instruction, and over 10 years of instructional coaching to empower educators with the tools, mindset, and confidence to thrive. Contact Ignite Brilliance Coaching on Facebook. We are back. Thank you for tuning into all the Dreamers radio show. We have the one and only Mark Batterson in with us. And Mark, you were just sharing about how the Lord circled Washington, D.C. to be where to move from Chicago and follow this calling of becoming a pastor and author.
MARK BATTERSON :
Yeah, one trip can change your life, Chrysandra, isn’t it? Isn’t it true? Yes. We literally, we just came out to visit my college roommate and we’re driving down Pennsylvania Avenue, kind of from the White House to the Capitol. And there was just this moment where I felt like God said, this is it. This is where I’ve called you. And so you know what we did? We packed all of our earthly belongings, and there weren’t many. So it fit into a 15-foot U-Haul.
CHRYSANDRA :
And this is your wife, right?
MARK BATTERSON :
Yes, my wife and I. We were all of a year or two married, and we just packed everything into a U-Haul. we didn’t have a place to live and we didn’t have a guaranteed salary. And I mean, this is before smartphones and Google. So you’re really going out on a limb. Like you don’t even know where, where you’re going. We had to pull out a Rand McNally paper map just to get from Chicago to DC. But you know, it was a move by faith and, I think faith is taking the first step before God reveals the second step. And so a lot of us get stuck because we want God to reveal the second step or hundredth step. And really what we need to do is take the first step. And so for us, that was moving by faith. And then, you know, here we are. We live on Capitol Hill. 27 years later. So it’s a little bit of a whirlwind, but I have never regretted stepping out in faith and following those promptings of the Holy Spirit.
CHRYSANDRA :
Wow. Amen. Well, it’s such an inspiration. And Mark, we know that as any entrepreneur, any faith journey, we’re walking with the Lord and the storms come, the giants rise up. How have, what has been, if there’s one scenario that comes to mind or just in general, how you’ve been able to push through and, you know, slingshot those giants down or to be able to see the storm pass to keep moving forward rather than stopping and turning around and quote unquote, moving back to Chicago. Yeah. Enemy would want you guys to.
MARK BATTERSON :
Yeah. You know, Chrysandra, I want to answer that question in an interesting way. because all of us face a lot of different giants, challenges, obstacles. I mean, I really feel like the obstacle is not the enemy. The obstacle is the way. The way you become a big person is you climb a big mountain, and you can’t spell testimony without the first four letters, test. You have to pass the test to get the testimony. Yes. I’ll just make it personal because my, my wife is one of my heroes and you know, she’s had two bouts with cancer in the last five years and, and we’re in a good place. We’re on the other side of that second battle and you know, we’re, she’s healthy and doing well. But when she got that first diagnosis, she came across a poem that posed the question. And the question was this, what have you come to teach me now? That’s a hard question to ask of cancer. That’s a hard question to ask of failure. That’s a hard question to ask if you lose a job or you go through a divorce or the dream crumbles in front of you. But in my experience, Chrysandra, life is a learning exercise. Like you just You have to learn from everything, and that’s ultimately how you’re going to get where you want to go. I think just having a growth mindset, a learning posture towards life has probably been the thing that’s seen us through thick and thin and certainly helped us kind of get to the other side of some of the challenges that we faced.
CHRYSANDRA :
Wow. That’s priceless wisdom right there. And I think we all if everyone tuning in, jot that down. If you have a notepad in front of you, you know, because every single day it might be tiny little giants that we’re facing or massive ones like you and your wife having to face cancer. But being able to know that God has something valuable to learn in the midst of all of that about himself and becoming more like him. So thank you for sharing that, Mark. And we’re so excited to hear. So what is this about your new book coming out? Well,
MARK BATTERSON :
You, Chrysandra, you know that feeling when you finally, like you write the book and it finally is in your hands and it’s like, it’s almost like holding a little baby because it feels a little fragile. But April 4th, please, sorry, thanks. And you know, what’s fun about this book, Chrysandra, is And it is about the power of words. I should say that, that words create worlds. If you want to change your life, you have to change your words. And this is true for any problem you’re trying to solve any dream you’re going after. The power of life and death is in the tongue. But then I would, I would argue that, that you only need to be good at three things. If you’re good at please, sorry, and thanks, you’re good to go. Listen, your relationships are going to be just fine. I have every confidence if you get good at please, sorry, and thanks, your friendships, a marriage with children, like you’re on good ground in the workplace. The people who get promoted… they’re not, it’s not the people that just have a PhD.
MARK BATTERSON :
People that have a PST, a please, sorry, thanks, that they’re, you know, they’re just good.
MARK BATTERSON :
Good at please, sorry, and thanks. And so it’s almost like a win friends and influence people, but there’s an art and science to it that I really share a lot of stories and studies about how we can cultivate please, sorry, and thanks in our lives.
CHRYSANDRA :
Please, sorry, and thanks. What an epiphany of just being able to hear that. And Mark, what was your inspiration on writing it?
MARK BATTERSON :
Well, you know, it’s kind of fun. I dedicate this book to my mom and dad. And I bet there are a lot of people that their parents, like my parents, taught them the three magic words, right? that you know make sure you say please sorry and thanks and i’m just so grateful that they cultivated that in me because like please please to me communicates respect and honor it creates civility, like instead of being entitled or just telling people what to do, no one wants to be told what to do, but a please will open a door. And then sorry, like, come on, you might as well get good at it because you’re going to be saying that a lot. And then probably my favorite part was thanks that just cultivating a gratitude towards all of life. And learning to, you know, Albert Einstein said there are only two ways to live your life. One is as if nothing is a miracle and the other is as if everything is.
MARK BATTERSON :
So I kind of live my life that everything is a miracle and kind of teach some of those principles in that third part of the book.
CHRYSANDRA :
Yes. Well, we’re so excited. We’re going to tell listeners here in a few minutes, Mark, how to be able to get a copy. Mark, we, so this is, it’s called To All The Dreamers Show. You are the ultimate dreamer. We’re just so honored. You know, though, there’s people tuning in and they’re trying to figure out how to go after God’s dream on their life, but they don’t know how to go after it. What would you tell them to do?
MARK BATTERSON :
Well, the first thing I would say is, and I say this with love, quit living as if the purpose of life is to arrive safely at death. That’s not the life that God has given us. Live your life in a way that’s worth telling stories about. Model faith to your kids. Take a risk here and there. At the end of our lives, Chrysandra, 86% of our regrets, according to psychologists, 86% of our regrets will be in action regrets. In other words, things that we would have, could have, should have done. We just never got around to doing it. And so I would say the first step is always the hardest step. But I think if you can find a way to take that first step in the journey, that that one small step can turn into a giant leap.
CHRYSANDRA :
And Mark, we love to ask our incredible guests a special question. And for this, you know, different seasons in life. But one of our favorite ones is what would you do if you knew you could not fail?
MARK BATTERSON :
you know, this is going to sound like the wrong answer, but I would be doing what I’m doing, even if I didn’t get paid, you know, let’s be honest. And you know, this writing a book is scary because it’s almost like taking your heart out of your chest and just kind of putting it out there for people. And you never know what they’re going to say or what they’re going to think. But You can’t live your life based on what others think or their opinions of you or even the fear factor of what if they don’t like it. I think at the end of the day, you’ve got to be true to who God has called you to be and what God has called you to do. And if you do that, I think you’re on good ground. I will say one more thing. Yes. At the end of the day, God’s not going to say well thought, good and faithful servant, well planned, well said. There’s only one commendation and it’s well done. In other words, can we just be a people who criticize by creating? Let’s be more known for what we’re for than what we’re against. Let’s Let’s do it. I mean, those who can do those who don’t criticize those who do. So I just think I want to be one of those people that just I’m going to keep putting my heart out of my chest by writing books. I’m going to keep pastoring people and and let the chips fall where they may.
CHRYSANDRA :
Well, Mark, we are just so honored to be able to spend this time with you. And we know that everyone tuning in is just changed by all the wisdom that you’ve shared with us today, that you have shared at National Community Church in Washington, D.C., and challenge everyone to go visit. It’s been life changing to me every time that I’ve gone to visit, as well as just being able to read life. your heart mark in these books. And it is, that is holy ground. And Mark, we just, we honor you so much. We can’t wait to get a copy of please. Sorry. Thanks. And I love the acronym that you put together to the PST.
MARK BATTERSON :
Well, I can’t wait. Chrysandra. What a, what a joy. And just so grateful. Thanks for your heart. Thanks for,
CHRYSANDRA :
pushing the rest of us to to dream those god-sized dreams thank you mark will we challenge everyone to go check out mark and mark what tell us um the best way to get in touch with you to follow you um a national community church
MARK BATTERSON :
Yeah. You know, Mark Batterson dot com has this book as well as like a sample read and and a bunch of freebies. And then I’m on social media. Mark Batterson on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook. And we’d love to connect there.
CHRYSANDRA :
Well, we honor you, Mark. We can’t wait. We would love to have you back sooner than later. And we challenge everyone to go check out all of Mark’s stuff. You can go to thecallingnonprofit.org to connect with Mark and our other guests. Remember that you can go after whatever God is calling you to today. Just like Mark said, just do it. Till next time, dreamer. Keep dreaming big.
