Pre-Born Lives Matter, Part 2: A Discussion with Dr. William Lyle

SPEAKER 02 : 0:00

Hello, everyone. You’re listening to Family Talk, a radio broadcasting ministry of the James Dobson Family Institute. I’m Dr. James Dobson, and thank you for joining us for this program.

SPEAKER 01 : 0:18

Well, welcome to Family Talk. I’m Roger Marsh. Nearly 50 years after abortion was legalized in America, the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, June 24, 2022. Now, while this represented a historic victory for the pro-life movement, the battle to protect innocent lives continued. Actually, it got more intense at the state level. Since 1973, over 65 million babies have lost their lives to abortion. Those are the ones we know about. Many states haven’t reported accurate records. And yet many people still don’t recognize that each of these precious children was fearfully and wonderfully made by God himself. On today’s edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, we’re continuing revisiting a compelling conversation Dr. Dobson had with Dr. William Lyle. Dr. Lyle is affectionately known as the pro-life doc. He’s a board-certified obstetrician and gynecologist who has dedicated his medical practice to defending the unborn. On the last edition of Family Talk, we heard Dr. Lyle sharing his pro-life passion and the ways he educates the public about the reality of abortion. On today’s program, he’ll share hope-filled testimonies from his own practice and explain the biblical protections God established for unborn children. So let’s join Dr. James Dobson and Dr. William Lyle right now for today’s edition of Family Talk.

SPEAKER 03 : 1:37

Exodus 21, specifically it’s talking about two men are fighting and it says two men strive. And accidentally they bump into a woman who is pregnant. And, well, what is the penalty going to be? Well, it depends on what the outcome is to the baby. If the baby is born preterm and the baby does well, then Exodus 21 tells us that there would be a fine that would be ascribed to the men that were fighting. And that would be determined by the high priest and by the father of the baby. However, if it’s accidental and the baby dies, then it was life for life. So, you know, if somebody’s swinging an axe handle and it flies off and it kills somebody, the penalty was not the death penalty. It was an accident. He’d go to a sanctuary city and there would be a fine. But these are two men who are fighting who accidentally hit a pregnant woman and she loses her baby. The penalty was the death penalty, even though it was accidental. So does God have a special love and protection for the unborn? I think that illustrates it right there.

SPEAKER 02 : 2:37

There’s no doubt about it. When you were first in my office, I pointed to the window where up on a hill our home sits. It’s with a lot of other homes there. It’s a development. And it’s not elaborate, but it’s nice. And on the way from there to here, about a 10-minute trip, I have to drive past the Planned Parenthood, which of all places is sitting right there for all of us to grieve over, frankly. And I do as I pass. And this morning when I came by, there had to have been 20 cars sitting out there. And I just, as I often do, I just visualize how many women are in there. They’re probably, most of them, very young. And they’re making the mistake that they will, I think, most of them regret. for the rest of their lives. Not all of them, but most of them will. And there are consequences, both physical and emotional, for submitting to an abortion in, I guess, especially the late trimesters, but the early ones too. There are consequences, and I would ask you about that. But it just it breaks my heart to see that. I just wish that I could just have a few minutes with those young ladies and talk about better yet. I would like you to be able to talk to them with your experience and with the illustrations that you give. Are you able sometimes will they allow you sometimes to say, are you sure this is what you want to do?

SPEAKER 03 : 4:29

We have a great group of counselors that actually will meet every Friday at the abortion clinic in our town. And that’s specifically what they will try to convey. They want them to know not only are they, as a mom, loved, the people that are standing out there love them. Jesus came, gave his life, and died on the cross for them because he loved them. Jesus died for whosoever. Jesus even died for the abortionist that’s inside that clinic getting ready to perform the abortions. And they’ll let them know and say, can we at least show you your baby before you… You have ultrasound equipment, don’t you? We do. In our office, we have actually one of the ultrasound machines at our pregnancy resource center called Safe Harbor, which is about five blocks away from our office. They are open all the time for the moms to come in and be able to get an ultrasound and and be able to look at the life on the inside. But on Fridays, if one of our counselors meets a lady who is getting ready to go in for an abortion, they’ll call us and we’ll say, absolutely, bring her over to the office. We want them to understand what the life is within their womb. We want them to visualize it. We’ll bring them in. We’ll let them see the baby on the inside. We can even let them hear the baby’s heart beating, just going, dum, dum, dum, dum, dum. We’ll even play the old Roberta Flack song, first time ever I saw your face, just to let them realize that there is their baby on the inside. It’s not just four drops of urine on a pregnancy test. My mom has been involved in a ministry called Life Keepers. And they get together on a regular basis, and they will actually sew little baby burp cloths and blankets and, you know, towels that are inscribed with them and embroidered where it says, I’m fearfully and wonderfully made. It’s just one token that a pregnancy resource center can give to a young lady to say, you know what, there’s a life that’s inside. Some moms will say, you know, I’m just not ready to be a mom. You already are a mom. Reproduction has already happened. The baby is alive. The baby is within your womb. It’s just a matter of time. So we want them to see that life within their womb. We want them to hear that heartbeat. We want to give them something that as long as they give that baby enough time to develop on the inside, they’ll be able to use. With the moms that have come into our office that have been abortion-minded and have then seen their tiny baby on the inside and then make that decision for life, A lot of times they become my patients. Sometimes they already have their own physician. But it’s always amazing to me that when I do get the privilege and honor of delivering those babies and I see the mom back in my office six weeks later, you can’t help but discuss with the mom and say, can you look back and think where we were eight months ago? Can you remember that decision you were trying to make? Can you look at your baby now and wonder why? what your life would be like without that baby in your life at that point. So not a single mom has looked at her baby and said, boy, I wish I had gone ahead and had that pregnancy terminated. Every single mom is like, I can’t believe I came that close to taking the life of this precious baby that’s in front of me right now.

SPEAKER 02 : 7:43

Yeah. Well, you see drama every day, don’t you? Now, how can people get in touch with you? Because you do speak. I don’t know how you have time to do it with all the pressures that are on an OBGYN clinic.

SPEAKER 03 : 7:59

We have a busy practice, but I have a passion. And my wife and my daughter, Sydney and Emily, understand that passion and they understand passion. how we try to have that balance between traveling and trying to show the life of the child within.

SPEAKER 02 : 8:13

Then how can they find you?

SPEAKER 03 : 8:15

Easiest way is through my website, which is ProLifeDoc.org. And there’s an email link. There are videos that are linked there. There are videos of me doing demonstrations to different groups. And there are also demonstrations on there that can be linked to foreseeing how is a first trimester abortion done? How is a second trimester abortion done? How is a partial birth abortion done? My goal is to show the personality and the personhood of the unborn within the womb and then use the tools of abortion to demonstrate the brutality and to actually let people visualize what is really going on within the womb.

SPEAKER 02 : 8:53

Are you encouraged by what’s happening in the Western culture, American culture particularly, with regard to revering the unborn child? Is that changing? My impression is that it has changed. But how?

SPEAKER 03 : 9:10

I think that there is an active movement going on which is trying to develop a wedge between the people of America and God. It does not matter whether it is abortion, whether it is drug abuse, whether it is sexual abuse, or whether it is pornography. All of these are driving people away from God. Where I do have great hope is in the younger generation. In the kids that I speak to that are 13 to 20 years of age, they learn differently than we learned. They don’t usually learn by reading books like we did. They are visual learners. The world to them is on their smartphone. It’s on their laptops. It’s on their tablets. When they see the images that we show of surgeries on the unborn, when they see the development of the baby on the inside, we actually will have something called twin-twin transfusion syndrome where you have two twins that are sharing a placenta. If one twin is taking a majority of the nutrition away from the other twin, that lesser twin can actually die. We now have surgeons that can go in and can look at that placenta, look at the blood vessels which are shared between that one placenta. They can take a laser and they can destroy those blood vessels, almost like they’re saying, okay, twins, you’re going to divide the room in half. You’re going to play on your side. You’re going to play on your side. Well, when we do that, both babies do well. And with twin-train transfusion syndrome and us doing surgeries on these babies, we’re We get two healthy babies. The kids realize that. They’re amazed at seeing the development of the baby. But the fact that we can use something like a laser to perform surgery to save the lives on the unborn, they say, well, what if mom didn’t want those babies? I mean, those babies are too far along to abort, aren’t they? It’s like, no. If mom were to choose, she could take those lives of the unborn, which does not make sense to the youth who are seeing and understanding the visuals of the life within the womb. And to them, it overtly seems wrong. They don’t have to have a religious objective. It just seems wrong to them.

SPEAKER 02 : 11:17

Do you ever find yourself lying in bed at night after a full day of the work that you do? And your eyes are still open, and you’re thinking and probably saying to God, I can’t believe that I have the privilege of being present at the dawn of a human being’s life, that you allow me to be here to make a difference and to preserve some of those lives. I mean, what a privilege.

SPEAKER 03 : 11:49

It’s an honor every time. I’ve delivered over 3,000 babies now so far in my career. And every delivery is special. And when you realize that you’re the first person that anybody has ever laid eyes on when they come into this world, it’s an honor and it’s a privilege. But then I also think of all the thousands of babies that I’ve delivered. But then I think about the 55 million babies whose lives have been taken here in the United States. And I think we need to do something about that. Often I’ll have people ask, can we really win? And I have to stop and you talk about looking up at the sky. You know, it’s gorgeous sky out here in Colorado. And when I look up at the sky and I wonder, can we win? I’m looking at the Milky Way, our galaxy, and I realize that there are 250 million stars in our galaxy. And you look at the God that we pray to and we serve is the one who in one thought said, and God created the heavens and the earth. So we have the God who listens to our individual prayers, hears our prayers that we can pray to and we can love. And the same God created this amazing universe that we have. And we sit back and we wonder, can we win when we have that God on our side? Yeah, we can win this battle. There’s no doubt about it. We just have to be faithful and we have to work and we have to strive because someday, for those of us that know Jesus, we’re going to come before Jesus and we’re going to look at this 70, 80 years that we spent here on earth. And what my goal is, is while I’m there on my knees just saying, thank you, thank you, thank you. What a blessing to have Jesus just reach his hand down, lift your chin up, look you in the eye, and just say, well done, our good and faithful servant. And that’s what all of our goal needs to be. So can we win? Yeah. No doubt about it.

SPEAKER 02 : 13:39

We can win.

SPEAKER 03 : 13:40

Must we win?

SPEAKER 02 : 13:41

I mean, we have to. Whether we win or not, that’s God’s business. Our job is to do everything we can to make sure we do preserve those lives.

SPEAKER 03 : 13:52

You know, our duty is to be faithful. And if people reject that message, one of the things I’ll do when I counsel people who work at a pregnancy resource center, a lot of times they get discouraged because they pour their hearts out. They let them know about this amazing gift of life. And yet, even though they might see their own baby or their grandchild, if they get brought in by their mom. They’ll go and still make that decision to abort the baby the next day. And the pregnancy resource center counselors will say, I can’t believe I didn’t do enough. You know, why couldn’t I have done more? And it’s like your duty is to be faithful. I said, you know, if Jesus Christ was teaching a class in your church on how to share the gospel, would you take it? Absolutely. I would take that class. You know, could anybody share the gospel better than our Lord and Savior Jesus? No. Did Judas hear all the messages of Jesus? Did he see all the miracles of Jesus? Did he have the most obvious presentation of the gospel possible? Yes. Did he still reject Jesus? Yes. Did Jesus not do a good enough job sharing the gospel in the presence of Judas? No. Judas made his own choice. He made the wrong choice, and he did not want to serve our Lord. So we can’t get discouraged. Our duty is to be faithful. Results are God’s.

SPEAKER 02 : 15:05

Yeah. You mentioned astronomy. I have a hobby of studying astronomy. I was about nine or ten years of age when I read my first article about what’s up there. And I was so awestruck, even as a child, at the vast reaches of space. And I couldn’t understand it all then, but I have studied it since then. It’s just a hobby, just something that I care about. And it takes my breath away to see what God has created and what he has done. how grand he is. There’s no problem that he can’t handle. It strengthens my faith. In fact, David said, the heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament showeth his handiwork. And when you think that it is He who is knitting those little babies together in the mother’s womb, as David said in Psalm 139. It’s he that’s doing it. You dare not interfere with it. That’s his doing. That’s his remarkable plan. The same one that flung those heavenly bodies into space and created all those galaxies. is working on that individual like no other one who ever lived. And it should give us pause before we act so cavalierly to something so grand.

SPEAKER 03 : 16:49

You know, we will feel that we have done grand things because of the minor surgeries that we’re performing on the babies within the womb. We put a drain in the baby’s bladder. We get the baby a blood transfusion. We operate on their spine. We do laser surgery. But the true miracle is in the development of the baby. Two cells can get together and all of the genetic material and blueprints on something called cell differentiation. How do two cells divide and one cell says to itself, you know what? All of the divisions that I’m going to do from here on are going to develop the vascular system. I’m going to become the heart and all the blood vessels. And another cell will say – Well, you know what? I’m going to become the neurologic system. I’m going to be the central nervous system in the brain. And another one says, well, I’m going to develop the skeletal system. We still do not have a clue as far as cell differentiation, how we can go from one cell to two to four to eight, 16, 32 to 60 trillion cells. It’s impressive that we can understand the structures, but how these structures actually followed a blueprint that was designed by God. When you see the design and you see the involvement, there has to be a designer. There’s no way it just happened by chance. We live in a world of entropy. If you take a jar that’s half-way filled with salt and half-way filled with pepper and you shake it forever, you will never, ever have a layer of salt and a layer of pepper. We just move towards confusion. The only way that you can have what we see in this gift of life is because there was a designer, there was a thought process, there was a creator that put this development and this plan to what we all are today as humans.

SPEAKER 02 : 18:33

Let me turn a corner. I could talk to you, it feels like, endlessly because I find what you have to say not only so interesting, Interesting, but inspirational. There is divine wisdom in what you’re saying. And the Lord laid his hands on you and gave you this assignment and gave you the ability to articulate it in a way that all of us can understand. And I applaud you for that and applaud him also. But let’s turn a corner. You were talking about the fact that you on one occasion began teaching morality and sexually transmitted diseases and other things that young people need to know. Explain it.

SPEAKER 03 : 19:25

For the past 10 years, we have taught a class in our church that we just call Godly Purity, where we believe that these kids can practice sexual purity. We haven’t given up on them. But we will, at our church, get the kids together, sometimes from two or three different churches. They’ll come together, and we’ll have a big event where we’ll have them there for the whole night. And it’s a lot of fun. We’ll have a live Christian band going, and we’ll take them out. Maybe we’ll have a bowling alley or a skating night. But our goal is to let them know what the biblical principles are, what God expects from them as far as their bodies, the temple, the Holy Ghost, and that their bodies are not their own, but their bodies are owned by the Holy Spirit. and how they’re supposed to treat them, and how guys are supposed to treat ladies, and how women are supposed to respect their own bodies. And we try to give them practical spiritual principles, but then I also will give them the principles from a medical standpoint, the consequences of sin, the consequences of deviating from God’s plan. One of the examples is boundaries. Is fire good or bad? It depends. You know, firing your grill that’s cooking your hot dogs or making your s’mores is good. Fire outside of the boundaries of a fire pit can burn your house down. What’s the difference? It’s boundaries. Is sex good or bad? Well, it depends. Where are the boundaries? Sex within the boundaries of marriage is wonderful. It is pure. It is a God-given gift. Sex outside of those boundaries is bad. So our goal is to let the kids know that, yes, there are godly biblical principles on your body and on your sexuality, that God has boundaries for sex. It’s a gift, but there are boundaries. But with all sin, there are consequences. Do I feel that when we educate these kids as to the biblical and the medical principles, do I feel they can make the right decisions regarding their sexuality? Absolutely. We see it all the time. We have been to weddings where the kids have made these decisions when they were in high school. And then as part of the wedding ceremony, the bride who has maintained her sexual purity will actually give her parents back the purity ring that she had placed on her finger when she was 13 or 14 years of age. And then she’ll take the wedding ring from the husband who now has also been maintaining that sexual purity. They are entering into that marriage relationship now. knowing that they cannot give each other some sort of a sexually transmitted disease. They have no psychological baggage. They have no prior relationships. They can have sex five times a day, 365 days a year, and they will not have to worry about some sort of a sexually transmitted infection. That’s the way God designed it. And when kids are taught that, they can practice that. I’ve been blessed with two amazing daughters, Sydney and Emily. And on a regular basis, we realize that there are two sets of parents out there raising the guys that my daughters will sometime marry. But there’s two guys out there that someday are going to sweep my daughters off their feet. And I hope that they’ve been raised with the same respect, not only for women, but the same respect and desire to serve our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER 02 : 22:28

And you pray for it.

SPEAKER 03 : 22:29

Absolutely, on a regular basis, to the same God that created our universe and created 50 billion galaxies out there. He’s the same God that I serve, and He’s the same God that I ask for wisdom in raising my daughters.

SPEAKER 02 : 22:41

I’ve been talking to Dr. William Lyle, and what a pleasure to get acquainted with him. You and I have a mutual friend, Jay Snyder. Yes, sir. Who brought you here, told me about you, came with you, flew with you, and is sitting at the table over here today. And said anything, but he brought us together. And I’m grateful that he did because I want to be your friend as long as you will allow me. God has his hands on you. And I do hope there will be a lot of people who will call and ask you to come speak because we’ve all heard how articulate you are in explaining some of these complex issues and ideas. You love the Lord, too, don’t you? Absolutely. He is my Lord and Savior. Yeah. Thanks for coming to be with us. It’s an honor. Please come back. I’d be honored to. Thank you very much. All right. Thank you.

SPEAKER 01 : 23:45

Every person matters to God, no matter how small. And as we’ve been listening to this special edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, we’ve been revisiting a memorable conversation featuring Dr. Dobson and Dr. Lyle about the sanctity of human life. And speaking of Dr. Dobson’s pro-life legacy, we have just published a powerful new tribute written by Dr. William Lyle himself, reflecting on Dr. Dobson’s five decades of defending the unborn. This moving piece chronicles how Dr. Dobson helped transform the conscience of a nation through faithful persistence and moral clarity. Now, the title of this blog is Dr. James Dobson, A Modern William Wilberforce in the Long Crusade for Life. And we encourage you to visit JDFI.net, where you’ll find not only the blog post, but also today’s broadcast embedded right there on the page, so you can read and listen all in the same place. The mission to defend life and strengthen families continues today through your partnership with the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute. And now as we carry that torch forward through the only organization that Dr. Dobson has ordained to continue his legacy, we need your support to ensure that that legacy continues, touching hearts and changing minds. Your tax deductible donation today helps us broadcast messages of hope to millions of families all across America. Remember, you can make a secure donation through our new website, jdfi.net. You can also call… 877-732-6825. A member of our constituent care team will be happy to take your call at 877-732-6825. Or if you prefer, you can send your donation through the U.S. Postal Service. Our ministry mailing address is Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, P.O. Box 39000, Colorado Springs, Colorado, the zip code 80949. Well, I’m Roger Marsh, and from all of us here at Family Talk and the James Dobson Family Institute, thanks so much for listening today. Be sure to join us again next time right here for another edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, the voice you can still trust for the family you love. This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.