Tune in to The Narrow Path as Steve Gregg navigates the labyrinth of theological inquiries posed by listeners. This episode takes you on a journey through biblical themes such as the responsibilities within church hierarchy, the potential for repentance among celestial beings like Satan, and the complexities surrounding the ‘once saved, always saved’ doctrine. Steve’s detailed explanations provide a nuanced understanding of the Bible’s teachings, encouraging Christians to reflect on the scripture’s implications in modern faith contexts.
SPEAKER 1 :
Thank you.
SPEAKER 03 :
Good afternoon and welcome to the Narrow Path radio broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg. We’ve been doing this for 28 years daily as we are now doing live programming where we give you an hour a day to call in and ask any question about the Bible or the Christian faith and we’ll discuss it. Notice I do not say I will answer the question because I may not know the answer. I’m not claiming to know all the answers. What I am claiming is that we’ll discuss it, and we’ll discuss it intelligently. And I can at least make that promise. As a person who’s been teaching the whole Bible, verse by verse, for 54 years, I have to say I’m at least acquainted with your questions. And if I don’t know the answers, I have thought about them. So we’ll talk about them together if you call in. If you don’t have a question, maybe you have a difference of opinion with the host and want to talk about that, you’re welcome to do that. If you’re not a Christian and you’ve got a problem with Christianity or the Bible altogether, feel free to give me a call. I’d love to talk to you about that as well. The number to call is 844-484-5737. We have a couple of lines open right now. If you want to call right now, 844-484-5737. I’m going to be announcing, not maybe every day, but until mid-August anyway, the fact that I’m going to be in the Midwest speaking, I think, 11 days in a row in August in Michigan, Indiana, and Illinois. And the areas I’ll be in will be the Grand Rapids area, the Detroit area, the Toledo, Ohio area, though I’ll be on the Michigan side of the border, but very close to Toledo, Indianapolis, Indiana, Rochelle, Illinois, and Mount Carroll, Illinois. Those are the regions I’ll be speaking, and that’s going to be between August 16th and August 26th. If you’re living in those areas and want to, you know, attend any of those gatherings, you can find all the details you need at our website, thenarrowpath.com. under the tab that says Announcements. All right, we’re going to go to the phones now and talk first of all to Troy, who’s calling in Hampton, Virginia. Troy, welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling.
SPEAKER 06 :
Good afternoon, Steve. My question regards church discipline and governance. I’d like your advice on a scenario that occurred. I’ve been volunteering in youth ministry for about a year. This past week we had a… camps for first through fifth graders, I volunteered as a small group leader to accompany my six-year-old daughter. I looked across the way in the auditorium, and one of the other leaders was a 15, 16-year-old boy who was wearing a tutu. It was kind of like a festive teen spirit color thing. A lot of the girls were wearing them. I was kind of wrestling with, you know, what do I say to this kid? So I went up to him and introduced myself. I said, listen, man, it’s probably not a good idea for boys to be wearing girls’ clothes in church. Do you mind taking it off? He took it off. Two gentlemen approached me and kind of said, hey, you know, that wasn’t appropriate. You’re a grown man. You shouldn’t be telling kids what to do. I disagreed and told them my interpretation of Matthew 18. So we can continue this later. Maybe we should get one of the elders or someone else involved. So the woman who’s the executive director of youth outreach and ministry, she’s a paid staff member. She’s not an elder. We are an eldership of men as far as our government goes. We had a talk. She basically said, well, I told them it’s okay to wear it. I said it’s inappropriate. I want my kid to see it. Where do I go from here, Steve?
SPEAKER 03 :
So this lady who’s on staff at the church was the one who gave this young man permission to wear a tutu at church?
SPEAKER 06 :
Correct.
SPEAKER 03 :
And you spoke to him. Do his parents go to that church?
SPEAKER 06 :
The young man that was wearing the tutu, I was told his parents gave him permission to wear it. I didn’t know this. I asked him if he’d take it off. He took it off. Two gentlemen… who were volunteers, approached me. We spoke. They brought her up to the woman.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, so I can’t, I won’t have time. My lines, excuse me, my lines are full. I can’t hear everything in detail. I just wanted to know. So, are you being confronted or you’re just wondering if you were right to confront the young man?
SPEAKER 06 :
I was, I feel I was chastened and I feel I need to invoke Okay, well, why don’t you? on this woman who says it’s okay for boys to wear girls’ clothes. Okay.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. So I would just make an appointment to see the elders and share the story with them. And their response would then give you some guidance as to what to do next. I think you did the right thing in speaking to the young man. Even if his parents gave him permission, I believe that obviously for men to dress like women is inappropriate. Both the Old and the New Testament suggest that. And so, you know, I would just say that if the elders won’t stand behind you on that, you’re going to have to decide whether that’s a church you can continue going to or not. But I do think that without seeking to be a troublemaker, I think this is an issue that could come up again, especially if this woman gave the boy permission. and she’s on staff at the church. Yeah, I think this should be handled by the elders of the church.
SPEAKER 06 :
So you think it is appropriate to go to the elders at this point rather than having a brother intervene and speak to this woman prior to?
SPEAKER 03 :
Right, right. I mean, because this is a church polity, I think. It’s not so much that this woman has sinned against you. It’s more that she is in some form of authority at the church, at least enough so that people seek her permission to do certain things. And so I think you should just bring it up as a matter of church polity, not so much aimed at disciplining her. It could end up with that if the elders see that as needful, or I don’t know, maybe she’ll repent. But the point is, I think it’s a question of, is our church going to take a stand about cross-dressing? You know, that would be the question I’d raise. And if they say, why do you ask? I mean, if they’re not aware of the situation, then you tell them the same situation you told me. And then let the conversation go where it will. And, you know, if they seem to be compromised and clueless, you might be looking for another church. But if they’re, you know, it might be resolved there. They might make a decision that’s good. But that’d be the next thing to do, in my opinion. Thank you for your call. Kristen in Escondido, California. Welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling.
SPEAKER 07 :
Hi, Steve. My question today has to do with election and free will, and I listened to your super well-done lecture series on God’s sovereignty and man’s salvation, and also many calls at Matthew 713 on the topic, which, by the way, I would like to thank whoever built that website for you. It’s a fantastic resource, excellent. I’ve gotten many of my questions answered there.
SPEAKER 03 :
That website was built by somebody in Ohio, but it is maintained on a daily basis, and some of them in Pennsylvania, too. It’s maintained on a daily basis by three different people, including my wife is involved in it every day, and there’s two other people who are involved in keeping it updated. But go ahead.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, it’s just I’ve been binging it this week, getting all my questions answered. But this one, I’m just wondering if you can hear me now. Are you there? Yes, can you hear me? Can you hear me right now?
SPEAKER 03 :
I can now. Yeah, your voice disappeared for a moment, but now you’re here. Oh, that’s weird.
SPEAKER 07 :
I haven’t moved. I haven’t done anything. Okay. I just can’t remember. Can you please remind me, how do we respond to a Calvinist when they tell us that we’re trying to steal God’s glory somehow, if we think that man has something to do with choosing to put our faith in the Lord Jesus?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, that would only be stealing God’s glory if God… for some reason wanted us to believe that we have nothing to do with it. I mean, we are saved by the grace of God. That’s where the glory of God is in the whole situation. We’re saved by His grace. The fact that He allows us to believe in Him, that He allows us to come to Him, that He extends grace to those who believe in Him. That’s tremendous. I mean, that glorifies God as much as the Bible does. I mean, the Bible doesn’t glorify Him in any different way than that.
SPEAKER 06 :
Now,
SPEAKER 03 :
Here’s something to understand, which you probably will, if you’ve dealt with Calvinists before, you’ll immediately recognize this is true, though you may not have thought of it. The idea of the glory of God differs in the mind of a Calvinist than it does in the mind of an ordinary Christian. The ordinary Christian feels that the glory of God inheres in his character. His goodness, his love, his holiness, his compassion, his justice. This is God’s character. And that is his glory. In fact, when Moses said, Lord, show me your glory. And God said, you can’t see my face and live, but I’ll pass by and I’ll declare my name to you. God goes by and he declares his. what, you know, his glory, his name, which is about his character, loving kindness, justice, you know, forbearance, all those things that God mentions. That’s his glory. His glory is in his character. Now, Calvinism, in my opinion, does not do very… very good work on the subject of the character of God. They make God out to be not loving toward everyone. He doesn’t really want everyone saved, although the Bible repeatedly says he does. They would say God actually is glorified in his judgment of sinners, where God himself said he doesn’t have any pleasure in that at all. If he was glorified, it seems like he’d have some, he’d like it. But he says he has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked would turn from his evil ways of living. They’re not strong on the character. What they’re strong on is the prerogatives of God. In other words, his rank. He ranks above all, and therefore he can do what he wants. And that’s the strong emphasis of Calvinism on the glory of God. He is glorified in the affirmation that he can do whatever he wants to, which has to do with his prerogatives, not his character. Because nobody didn’t, I hope no Christian ever denied that God can do whatever he wants to. The question of what does he want to do is a matter of his character. If you give me total freedom to watch your kid or something like that, well, if I’m a good man, that should go well. If I’m a bad man, it might not go well. But the thing is, how it goes is a different thing than the fact that you gave me permission to, you know, Oversee the child and do you know? What made me call the call the activities for the day for your child if I’m a good person That’s a safe thing to do If I’m not then it’s not a safe thing to do now God has the right to do whatever he wants with the world he created it He has the right to do whatever he wants with every man and every woman and child he created them He’s got that right Calvinists aren’t the only ones who think that Arminians think that. All Christians think that. The difference between Calvinism and Arminianism is not that the glory of God is inherent essentially in his prerogatives, but in the fact that his character is of a sort. Although God can do whatever he wants to, there are things that would be contrary to his character, which he wouldn’t want to do. If I have a puppy… Can I go out in the yard and crush its head under my foot and kill it? Well, in some countries I could. There would be no laws against it. But could I do that? Well, I’d have to be a certain kind of person to want to do that, you know. And I’m not that kind of person. I wouldn’t enjoy that. That’s not something I would do. I might have the right to, but it’s just not something I can do because of who I am. And so Calvinism teaches that God has the right to consign some people to go to hell and burn forever before they’re ever born. And when they are born, they have no choice in the matter, really. That’s been made up before the foundational world. God determined they would live under certain circumstances and die and go to hell. And other people, he has determined that they will live and go to heaven when they die. Now, this decision was all his. They had no choice in the matter. It was determined before they were born. They’re born either with a death sentence already for crimes they have not yet committed, or else they’re born with an exoneration and an acquittal ahead of them, and that’s something that they didn’t choose either. Now, for God to be able to do that is something that Calvinists think glorifies God. Why? Because he can do that if he wants to. And if you say he doesn’t do that… If you say, well, no, God doesn’t treat people that way. God, in fact, has given people a choice. He punishes us for our choice to rebel, and he rewards us for our choice to submit and to believe and to follow Christ. Now, that’s what the Bible teaches. But then they say, but then you’re taking the glory away from God. How so? Well, because you’re saying that you have something to do with your salvation. Namely, you make the right choice to believe in Christ. Okay, well, the Bible does say I have that to do with my salvation. If I didn’t, I would bear no responsibility for any choice I would make. Contrary, if I don’t have free will and only God determines all these things, then not only does he get all the credit for my salvation, he gets all the blame for people who go to hell. I mean, no one else has any possibility of changing anything into that view. Now, I don’t think God is glorified by saying that he does that. I think he has stated again and again in Scripture that’s not the kind of God that he is. Now, I will admit, I mean, Calvinists and I would have this in common. We both believe that God, who made everything, is sovereign and can do anything he wants to. We just differ as to what kind of a God he is. I’ve often thought what a blessing it is since there is a God and we can’t say anything about it. I mean, we can’t change the fact that there’s a God. It’s wonderful that he’s not a devil. I mean, that he’s not a God who delights like some little boys delight in pulling the wings off of flies just to be mean or to throw kittens out the window on the freeway. I knew boys who did that kind of thing when I was young. And I thought, good heavens. What if God was disposed to do that kind of thing? We’d be a sorry group, I’ll tell you, because there’s nothing we could do to change it. But thank God he’s not that kind of God. He’s not that kind of God. He’s not the kind of God who says, you haven’t done anything yet, but I’ve already decided you’re going to hell and burn forever and ever and ever without relief. Well, Calvinists think he’s that kind of a God. And, I mean, they don’t like it to be described that way, but that’s what they believe. If a Calvinist wants to call me and say, oh, you’re misrepresenting our views. Well, tell me what your views are then, if they’re not that. Because that’s what all the Calvinist teachers believe. That’s what Calvin believed. That’s what Augustine believed, which is where this came from. So, in other words, the difference between Calvinism and Arminianism, or we’ll just say non-Calvinism, is that Calvinism has a certain view of God’s character that’s not very flattering. But because they elevate his prerogatives higher, As they do. And seemingly maybe don’t know him well to know what he’s like. They just figure, well, he’ll do that kind of thing because he can. And who can complain? Who are you, oh man, to answer against God? Well, I’m not answering against God. I’m answering against you. You know, I agree with you that God can do whatever he wants to, but that means he can punish those who don’t, you know, who don’t submit, and he can reward those who do, and that’s a fair thing. That’s a fair way to be, and God is a just God. He’s not an unjust God. So, anyway, so Calvinism glorifies God, they think, by elevating his prerogatives. Non-Calvinists do not lower his prerogatives at all. But they believe he had the prerogative as a sovereign God to grant free will and causality and responsibility to some of the creatures he made. And that’s how things stand. That’s how God did things. And that’s much more revealing of his character being a just and good and loving God than if he just kind of played us like players on a chessboard that he moved some of us to And then the black pieces all go to hell and the white pieces all go to heaven or something like that. That’s the difference. So if they say, well, you don’t glorify God because you think man has a free choice, I’d say, I think maybe you don’t glorify God because you don’t believe God is love. And that’s what the Bible says he is. To you, he’s only love to you and a few other people who think they are elect. But to the rest, he has no love at all because he determined for them to be tortured forever and ever before they were born. That’s not love. So, anyway. Yes.
SPEAKER 07 :
Thank you very much. That was super helpful. Thank you very much.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, Kirsten. Thanks for your call. Let’s see. We’re going to talk next to Paul in Oredell, New Jersey. Hi, Paul. Welcome.
SPEAKER 09 :
Hi, Steve. Thanks for taking my call.
SPEAKER 03 :
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 09 :
I’m confused, and maybe you can shed some light on this. Jesus said, I am the vine, you are the branches, and you cannot bear fruit without the vine. And I’m thinking, isn’t that the opposite? Because vines cannot bear fruit without branches, because they need a branch or a tree or something to cling on to, to grow. So how can – and branches can bear fruits without vines. So can you set some light on this for me because I’m really confused.
SPEAKER 02 :
Excuse me. You’re saying branches can bear fruit without being part of a vine?
SPEAKER 09 :
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER 02 :
How is that so?
SPEAKER 09 :
That’s what I’m saying because – A grapevine is a plant that produces grapes, okay, if a branch is not attached to such a plant.
SPEAKER 03 :
the branch will not produce any grapes. It has to be part of a plant. It has to be part of the plant.
SPEAKER 09 :
What I’m confused about is it didn’t say in the Bible that it’s a good vine. It just says a vine. And a vine by itself cannot bear fruit because it needs a tree that has branches or it needs a post.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, well, I will agree with you on something, and that is that you are confused. It sounds very confusing for you to say that. I mean, Jesus is saying something that’s so obvious. Paul makes the very same kind of illustration when he talks about the olive tree, that believers are branches in this olive tree. And he’s talking about branches that were cut off. because of their unbelief. This is obviously in Romans 11, 16 and following. You know, branches have been broken off the tree, and some have been grafted on. Well, what’s the consequence of being broken off? They die. That’s what happens. You can do this with any plant in your yard. Go cut a branch off, disconnect it from the plant, and set it aside and come back out in a couple days and see how it’s doing. It’s not going to do well. Now, Jesus said he is the whole plant. We are members of him. Branches are part of a plant. They don’t exist on their own. They grow out of a plant, and they are part of a plant. And we are members of the body of Christ. He is the whole body, and we are the members of the body. And we are, you know, he’s the whole vine, which is, by the way, a vine consists of its roots, of its stalk, of its branches, of its, you know, leaves, and of the fruit. I mean, those are all part of, that’s part of what the vine is. He’s saying, listen, I’m the vine, you are in me, and the part of the vine that you are, are the branches, right? And if the branches stay in me, if you stay attached to me, you’ll bear fruit. He said, if you don’t stay attached to me, you’ll be cast forth as a branch. And what happens then? He says, you’ll wither up. Okay, now that’s very consistent, very consistent with what any vineyard personnel will tell you or anyone who knows anything about, you know, horticulture or biology at all. So I do think you’re confused. Now, it is maybe true that if you cut off all the branches, the vine won’t produce fruit, so the vine needs branches. I’m not denying that. And Jesus wasn’t denying that. That wasn’t what he was talking about. He was never talking about all the branches being cut off the vine and the vine still going to bear fruit without them. What he’s speaking of is that you are the branches, and you need to attend to the fact that you are supposed to remain fruit. In the vine, you’re supposed to bear fruit. And if you don’t, you’ll wither up and die. Now, that’s simple horticulture, and that’s how he intended it. So I’m not really sure what it is that’s confusing you about that. But whatever it is, I don’t think I can do more for you about that. Pardon?
SPEAKER 09 :
Steve, basically what you’re saying is he’s referring to a vineyard where you have grapes.
SPEAKER 03 :
Hey, listen, I don’t have any – I’m sorry. I don’t mean to hang up on you, but partially you’re very hard to understand. I mean, it’s just not a – I don’t know if it’s a bad connection or what. It’s not easy to understand what you’re saying. But the part I do understand, I disagree with, and I’ve already corrected. If you want to come back and say it again and again and again while other people are waiting to go in there, I’ve got to make some decisions about how long that kind of thing goes on. The side switch, we’re up against a hard break. And I can’t go longer with you on this point. Not that I think it would be helpful if I did. You’re listening to The Narrow Path. We’re halfway through the program. It’s an hour program. We have another half hour coming up. But at the bottom of the hour, I’d like to let the audience know that The Narrow Path is a listener-supported program. You know, sometimes we take so many calls, I don’t even remember to say that. Like yesterday, I think the program ended without my even being able to tell you that we’re listener-supported. And, you know, most radio programs, they have some kind of commercial breaks, or they have some kind of sponsor, or they have an underwriting church or something like that. And… and they don’t have to mention listener support. We don’t have any commercial breaks. We don’t sell anything. We don’t have any sponsors, and we don’t want any. We’ve been doing this for 28 years without any sponsors, without selling any products of any kind. We just buy the time on radio stations, and we’re on more stations now than ever before across the country, but they cost a lot of money. And so what I do try to do every day is let you know we are listener-supported. And that’s about all I ever say about it. Except if you do want to help us out, you can write to us at The Narrow Path, P.O. Box 1730, Temecula, California, 92593. That address again is The Narrow Path, P.O. Box 1730, Temecula, California, 92593. You can also donate if you want to from the website, though our website is chock full of resources, over 1,000, well over 1,000 downloadable resources of great value. One of our callers earlier mentioned how much she got out of them. You will, too. It’s at thenarrowpath.com. You can donate there if you want to at the website, thenarrowpath.com. Now, I’m going to take a moment here for an announcement, then I’ll come back. We’ll have another half hour. Don’t go away.
SPEAKER 01 :
toward a radically Christian counterculture as well as hundreds of other stimulating lectures can be downloaded in mp3 format without charge from the narrow path website www.thenarrowpath.com there is no charge for anything at the narrow path website visit us and be amazed at all you’ve been missing that web address www.thenarrowpath.com
SPEAKER 03 :
Welcome back to the Narrow Path radio broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg, and we’re live for another half hour taking your calls. We’ve got callers lined up, but I’m looking at two lines open, which means if you call right now, you can get through, and we will try to get to you before the program is over. The number to call is 844-484-5737. That’s 844-484-5737. All right. And our next caller is Rose from Fontana, California. Rose, welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling. Hello, Rose? Is your phone muted, perhaps? Going once? Going twice? All right. I apologize. I’m not getting anything from you, so I hope it’s not at our studio’s end, the problem, but no sense keeping you on the line if you’re not there. Call back if you’d like to, and we may be able to talk then. All right. Let’s talk to Mark from Port St. Lucie, Florida. Mark, welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling.
SPEAKER 05 :
Hi, Steve. Yeah, I just want to say thank you for your ministry and what you and Dana do every day and every week. It’s a great value to us believers. And I actually had met you, my wife and I met you and Dana a number of times. We served at YWAM in Kona in the Bible department. And I don’t know if you remember me or not, but we had a daughter that used to follow you around. Of course.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, I know who you are, Mark. I know your last name, too. Yes. Good to talk to you.
SPEAKER 05 :
All right. Quick question. I was listening to archives yesterday. Back in March, you had a couple of back-to-back days, phone calls about David and Bathsheba. And the callers were wanting to know about, Bathsheba’s culpability. And you went and, you know, kind of talked about, yeah, some people, you know, may consider that Bathsheba was looking to trade up, you know, maybe by taking a bath on the rooftop. And then others say, you know, I think you even mentioned that when the king, you know, requests your presence, you don’t say no. And so I’ve always looked at that story as, Kind of a big question mark. We don’t know whether Bathsheba would be culpable or also included in the sin that we know that David was certainly guilty of. But then I had an experience a few years ago where I was reading with a group of students this very story. And another student pointed out to me in 2 Samuel chapter 12, it says that the Lord sent Nathan, the prophet, to David. and gave David a story to tell him about a rich man and a poor man and a little lamb. And if we dissect that story, I believe that we can see God’s heart in this message that he gave to David that we know was to bring out the guilt and his righteous anger about the rich man. So I’m going to ask you a couple of questions. Regarding that story that Nathan told David earlier, Who in that story was the rich man?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, David was the rich man. And the story described a man who had lots of sheep, but his neighbor had only one sheep. And, you know, when the rich man had a guest and he wanted to serve lamb, To his guests, he didn’t use one of his own sheep. He took his neighbor’s sheep and used it instead. And Nathan presented this to David as if it was an actual case that had occurred. He’s approaching David like he’s a judge, sort of like people would later approach Solomon to adjudicate cases like that. And David, when he heard about it, he was enraged, it says. Of course, David had been a shepherd and had risked his life to keep people from stealing sheep, you know, up until the time he became king. And now, you know, here’s someone steals a sheep and he doesn’t even need it and takes the only sheep. The guy has this made David furious. The man shall die. Now, you know, Nathan said, you’re the man. So we can see that the rich man in the parable is David. He’s identified directly. And, of course, the sheep is Bathsheba. Of course, she’s not a literal sheep. And the question of her culpability would not really be determined from that parable. because Nathan is not confronting her, but David, about his culpability.
SPEAKER 05 :
I found it interesting, though, that in that story, we have David as the rich man, Uriah as the poor man, and the innocent lamb as Bathsheba. And so, you know, just kind of looking at that story to get, yes, touch David’s heart and see his guilt in that sin. If Bathsheba is depicted as the innocent lamb, you know, I felt that, you know, that may convey a part of her culpability or not. Well, I mean, that is a consideration.
SPEAKER 03 :
That is a consideration, but I don’t think that Nathan is trying to talk about Bathsheba’s but her being the thing that David took from the man who had only one lamb. David, of course, had many wives already. He had like seven wives before this. And Uriah, who was Bathsheba’s husband, only had her. So the idea is you took somebody else’s wife. He only had one. You already had a bunch. What a jerk it takes to do that. And Now, but of course, it’s not a literal story. It’s a parable. So, you know, in the story, the lamb was taken to be eaten. You know, David didn’t take Bathsheba to eat her. Sure. So, I mean, in other words, there are things about the story that don’t parallel exactly what actually happened. But what they do parallel is David’s evil in his heart that he would take from a man the only one that he had. When David had no need for that, he had plenty. And this is, that’s the nature of it. Now, I mean, the degree to which Bathsheba is viewed like the lamb in the story as just, you know, an object being traded, you know, between men or something like that. That, you know, that could be a secondary intended meaning. You know, if we push every detail of a parable, we get to ridiculous things usually. And like I said, if we’re going to push everything literally here, then the woman’s being taken over to David’s house to get eaten by him and his friends, you know, which it’s not. It’s not that parallel. But the point that is made is condemning David. Now, if Nathan was going to condemn Bathsheba, he could have talked to her. Although, Beth, she was of very little consequence in the matter. She was under social pressure. She might have been terrified to say no to the king, or she might have even been attracted to him. She might have been into it. She might have liked the idea. I don’t know that she saw herself as a person who really had much choice in the matter, though. I mean, she did, obviously. She could say, David, how dare you do this? I’m not going to do this. But You know, women, first of all, women didn’t have as much purchase in these kinds of decisions in that society as they would in ours. And, of course, there’s a king there, and you don’t say no to the king, generally speaking. She could have, but we don’t even see Sarah saying no to Abimelech or to Pharaoh when she was taken into their harem. They didn’t end up sleeping together because God intervened, but We don’t read of Sarah speaking out against it or whatever. I think these women, they were sort of treated like pawns often between men. And that’s what they saw themselves as. And so, I mean, it’s hard to know exactly how much moral choice and responsibility Bathsheba understood herself to have. But in any case, the parable is not really implicating her, obviously.
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay. In the same story, I want to get just a follow-up question here. You commented that David had righteous anger towards the rich man that took the poor man’s sheep, and he responded at first that man should die, which is correct. But then David followed that up, remembering the law, because each king was supposed to write their own copy of the law, and I believe David did.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right, the death penalty was not correct for that. You’re right.
SPEAKER 05 :
The penalty was supposed to be if you steal one man’s sheep, you pay four of your own. Four sheep for a sheep, yeah. And that’s in Exodus 22.1. It states that if you steal another man’s sheep, then you must pay four of your own. And I find it extremely interesting that David, they lost the baby with Bathsheba. He lost his son Amnon. Absalom, and Adonijah. He lost four of his own sheep to an early grave. Do you see a connection there as well?
SPEAKER 03 :
That is interesting.
SPEAKER 05 :
Even though God used a parable about, you know, a shepherd, or I’m sorry, a sheep, and how we’re drawing, you know, connections within that parable. But David himself, you know, going back to the law, and saying that man should die. No, wait, wait. The law says that man should pay four of his own sheep, and David lost four sons to an early grave. I find that just to be very, very interesting.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I have to say, I had never thought of that connection, but it’s an interesting one. It may be valid.
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay. Okay, well… It’s always good to hear your voice. Please give Dana a heart of regard. All right. And hopefully we’ll see you one day again soon.
SPEAKER 03 :
I hope so. Well, Mark, good talking to you again. God bless you. Say hi to your wife and daughter.
SPEAKER 05 :
I will.
SPEAKER 03 :
Bye-bye. All right. Let’s talk to Fred from Alameda, California. Fred, welcome.
SPEAKER 04 :
Hi. Excuse me. My question is, I have a friend, his name is Robert Hardy, and he once said, quote, Satan is doomed, end quote. So I have a simple question. What did Satan do that was so terrible that he cannot come back to God? Because obviously he’s still around. Like, can’t he repent? Like, does the Bible make that clear one way or another?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, the Bible does certainly describe Satan as being cast into the lake of fire and tormented day and night forever and ever. Now, I have to admit that Revelation uses some hyperbole and it uses some symbolic language, but it certainly represents Satan’s end as a bad one. And so I think that’s probably why your friend said that Satan is doomed. Now, what did Satan do bad? What has he done that wasn’t bad? I mean, Jesus said he’s a murderer, a murderer from the beginning and a liar from the beginning. He’s the father of all lies. I’d say that he’s got nothing good on his record, only bad stuff. So, yeah, I mean, for him to be condemned would be quite sensible. Now, if you say, well, why can’t he repent? Well, I don’t know that he has that capacity. I don’t know. The devil is not a human being. And humans definitely, if they are sinners, and if their hearts have not become too hardened, are capable of repentance and God accepts it. But Satan is not a human being. And I don’t know that Satan has free will. A lot of people think that angels have free will because the Bible says that some have rebelled. Well, it’s true that some have rebelled. They had that much free will, I guess. But we don’t know anything about what God has extended to them in terms of opportunities to repent so that would be uh you know all we can say is that the the judgment of satan just like the judgment of every human being by god will be uh entirely just totally deserved all right let’s talk to cassandra from arkansas cassandra welcome hi hi um sorry uh
SPEAKER 08 :
I’ve been having an interesting question pop up in my life. There’s like an unclear difference for me of how, like I know when you love God, you serve God, and you do things for him, and you follow his commands, and it comes out as like a purity of faith. But also I feel like this pressure to perform, and I know that I’m allowed to stumble, and there’s that grace, but it’s just… I’m just wondering, sorry, I can’t seem to find the right words for it. How do I rest in God, but also work for God? Does that make any sense?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, you’re a follower of Christ, you’re a believer. And so you’re thinking you feel under pressure to perform. Is that right? Yes. But, you know, you’re saved by grace. And so you feel like you should be at rest. in the rest of faith, you know, that resting in Christ is fish work. And yet there’s this sense of duty to do things, right? So let me put it this way. We do have a duty to do things, but it’s not like God is tyrannically lording over us with a whip. We will answer for the deeds we have done. The Bible makes that very clear. But the assumption is if we love God, the deeds we have done will not be the kind of things that we’ll be embarrassed to answer for. In fact, Jesus said, if you love me, you keep my commandments. So a person who loves God is going to be living obediently to him. Now, if you’re saying that in addition to being obedient, you feel pressure to do a lot of, you know, works of various kinds, you know, meritorious works. Yeah, well, I mean… Yeah, you just have to be loyal to Christ and be obedient to him, just like you. Are you a married woman?
SPEAKER 10 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, so are you loyal to your husband? Do you fit in with his plans? Are you obedient to him?
SPEAKER 08 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, then it shouldn’t be hard to understand if you’re loyal to Christ. and obedient to him, then that’s very parallel. Now, on the other hand, if you’re obedient to your husband because you feel a whole bunch of pressure about it, and you feel like you’re going to be, you know, something bad will happen to you if you don’t, that’s a little different. I mean, obviously, we should fulfill our obligations out of love for the person that we’re serving. If you love somebody, the service you perform for them is not so much a chore, It’s actually a delight because love is just that way. If you love somebody, you take delight in their happiness. It says in 1 John 5, this is the love of God that we keep his commandments, and his commandments are not burdensome. So if you find that obedience to God is a burdensome thing, what John tells us there is that… that you need to learn to love God. You know, you need to love him. And that’s something that some people struggle with. I mean, some people say, well, I obey God because I fear him, but I’m not so sure I love him. Well, that’s something to work on then. And I guess, you know, if that is the case, I’d say, well, why would anyone not love God? Well, obviously the reason some people don’t love God is is that they see him as someone who always wants to rain on their parade and always wants to condemn them for doing things that they like to do and stuff like that. And they see themselves in competition with God over their lives. They want to do one thing, and they figure he wants them to do something else. Obviously, the solution to that is totally to surrender and say, hey, why should I be able to do what I want? I didn’t make me. I didn’t create me. I didn’t buy me. I don’t even give myself breadth. Those are given to me as gifts. So why should I be making the decisions about what happens with my life? That should be God’s decision. He’s the one who owns me. And I don’t mind it because God has a better plan for my life than I could dream up for myself anyway. You know, whenever we find it burdensome to do what God said, it’s because in the back of our mind, We must think that what I’d rather do than that is really going to be a happier thing. It’s going to be better for me in the end. I really want to do something else. Shoot, I have to do what God said, you know, but I don’t really want to. I’d rather do something else. Well, why would I want to do something else unless I thought I’ve got a better plan than God has? And how in the world could any human being who knows anything about God think that, you know? But as far as loving him, I will say this. The Bible says we love him because he first loved us. And if we consider Christ died for us, that’s a pretty big expression of love. If we realize that God has given us every good gift and every perfect gift, our good health, our eyesight, our healthy children, let’s say, you know, we’re not worried about food and clothing, you know, because God takes care of it. I mean, how much does he have to do before we say, wow, thank you so much, you know, I really appreciate that. I love you, you know. I mean, I think that fondness and love, and by the way, fondness and love are not the same thing, but they can certainly be related. Fondness and love, I think, are generated by gratitude. So, A lot of people don’t love their parents, even though their parents have been extremely generous to them, because they feel very entitled. I mean, the kids do. That’s what being spoiled means. They feel entitled to what they’ve been given. I think we need to beware of that attitude ourselves. God’s given us so many things, we begin to think we’re entitled to them. And we’re spoiled. And we think that we should have good things. Really? What good thing have I ever earned? Nothing I can think of. I didn’t even earn my next breath, you know, much less a moment of joy or pleasure. Yet I have a lot of that because God gives me so. I mean, gratitude is what is what, you know, inspires those feelings of love that make you want to please God. You know, once you once you’ve cultivated a love for him, you’re just delighted to know what his will is. I think the biggest frustration I’ve known among people who love God is not how can I be obedient to God, but how can I know what God wants? Because they want to do what God wants because they love him. The big issue is more their problem of not knowing for sure what he wants, but that’s a different issue. How do you relax and still maintain your sense of duty? Well, you rest in the fact that God is not going to accept you or reject you based on how much you perform. Now, maybe the kinds of things you do, if you go out and you murder and commit adultery and steal and don’t repent and this is the way you live your life, yeah, well, you’ll probably be condemned for that because everyone’s going to be judged by their works. But I’m assuming that that’s not the kind of life you’re living. So the other thing is just to learn to take delight in God’s will and when you know what it is, to do it.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, thank you, Steve. Beautifully put, as always. I appreciate it.
SPEAKER 03 :
All right, Cassandra. Good talking to you. God bless you. Bye-bye now. Let’s see. Candice from Mesa, Arizona. Welcome to The Narrow Path.
SPEAKER 08 :
Hi, Steve. I have a question of your thoughts on once saved, always saved.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 08 :
Do you believe in that? I mean, like, can you lose your salvation or…
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, salvation is in Christ, okay? So it says that in 1 John 5, verses 10 and 11, or 11 and 12, right around there. It says this is the message that God has given to us, eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that has the Son has life. He that does not have the Son of God does not have life. So life isn’t something that is external to Christ, which he can hand you like a package and say, now it’s yours. see you later. No, you have it in him. It’s only in him. It’s not an external thing that he hands you and you then put it in your back pocket and you can do whatever you want. You still got it. And you can go away from Christ and it won’t matter. Some people seem to think about it that way. The Bible doesn’t. The Bible says that this life that God’s given us is in Jesus. If you have Jesus, that is, if you are in Jesus, you have the life because that’s where the life is. We were talking to the man about the vine and the branches in the last hour and half hour, excuse me. And Jay said, you know, I’m the vine, you’re the branches. If you remain in me, you’ll bear fruit. Why? Because a vine that remains in the branch has the life of the vine continually in it. Now, he said, if anyone does not remain in me, they’re cast forth as a branch and they wither and they’re burned. So, Okay, so why would a branch wither when it’s not attached to the vine? Because the life of the vine is not in that branch. Now, the life of the vine is still in the branch, even if that branch is cut off. I mean, it’s in the vine, not in the branch. The branch is not attached. It’s not in the vine anymore. But the vine still has plenty of that life. That life is eternal life. It doesn’t go away. It’s just that the branch that’s not abiding in him isn’t tapped in, is not participating in that life. They don’t have it anymore. The life comes from being in Christ and abiding in Christ. Now, that simply means that just as you came to be in Christ by your surrender to him and his lordship and acknowledging him as the king of your life and so forth, that you continue to do so. And not just that you say so, but, I mean, it’s got to be true. I mean, God knows, you know, God knows if you’re just saying you believe in him, but really you don’t. But if you do believe Jesus is your king and that’s a governing reality in your life, well, then you’re in. And you’ll never… You’ll never lose any salvation until you lose Jesus himself. If somebody says, well, you can depart from Christ and still be saved. I’m not sure what Bible they’re reading. I’m not sure what they mean by saved. I don’t believe the Bible teaches that. Now, some people say if you’re really saved, you never will depart from Christ. And I guess you should tell that to Jesus who said that there would be people who would receive the word of joy and the seed would spring up and they’d be happy, you know, alive and growing until the sun came and burned them up. You know, he said that’s trial. Some people fall away, he said. Paul said in 1 Timothy 4 that many shall depart from the faith, which is not a happy prediction, but Obviously, it’s possible to do. In Romans 11, 22, Paul was doing what Jesus did. Jesus, of course, had the vine and the branches. Paul had the olive tree and the branches. And he said the unbelieving Jews who were broken up, well, they’re certainly not saved. They don’t have Christ. They’re not believers. And he said, but you Gentiles who have been grafted in, God has been merciful to you, he says in Romans 11, 22. If you continue in his goodness, otherwise you also will be cut off. In other words, these branches, these Jewish branches were broken off the tree because of their unbelief. Gentiles, many of them, have been grafted onto the tree because of their faith. But he said, if you don’t continue in that, you can be broken off just like they were. In other words, a position in that tree or in the vine. is not guaranteed to those who don’t believe. But if you continue in the faith and don’t depart from the faith, you’ll remain in Him. And so I believe I have eternal security. But it’s not unconditional. I have to remain in Christ, but I’m not worried about that. Why would I not? Why would anyone who’s got at least two good brain cells, why would they ever leave Christ? I think people who do leave Christ, and there are some who do, must not know him. They must not know him because to know him definitely is to love him, and you’d never want to depart from him. Like Peter said, to whom shall we go, Lord? You alone have the words of eternal life. Hey, I’m out of time for today’s program and for this week. I’m sorry to say because we’ve got a lot of people online wanting to come on. I’m sorry to have to not take those calls today. Call in again Monday, and we’ll talk to you then. You’ve been listening to The Narrow Path radio broadcast. Again, we are listener-supported. You can check out our website, thenarrowpath.com. Thanks for joining us. Have a good weekend.
