Join Steve Gregg in this engaging episode of The Narrow Path, where we delve into early Christian beliefs and their proximity to apostolic teachings. Discover why the resurrection of Christ and its timeline are pivotal to understanding the faith’s early foundation. We also tackle common misconceptions like the notion of a pre-tribulation rapture, providing a closer look at scriptural evidence.
SPEAKER 07 :
Good afternoon and welcome to the Narrow Path radio broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg and we’re live for an hour each weekday afternoon. We’re taking your calls as we usually do. If you have questions about the Bible or the Christian faith or you disagree with the host about something, we want to bring that up for conversation. I’d love to hear from you today. The number is 844-484-5737. I’m looking at a switchboard with a couple of open lines, so this is a good time to call. There’s not always a couple of lines open. The number again, 844-484-5737. And I’ll just real quickly mention, as I’ve been saying, that next month from this August 16th to the 26th, I’ll be speaking in a variety of places in California. Michigan, Indiana, and Illinois. So all of our Midwest, not all of them, but many of our Midwest listeners, I don’t get out there very often. In fact, I think You know, I make trips lots of times to places where our listeners are and speak in places, but I think this might only be my second time coming to that region. It’s been a year or two, I think, since last time. Anyway, it doesn’t happen all the time. And if you live in those areas, once again, these are, you know, some of the main Midwestern states up in the north there. I have listed all of the places at our website where I’ll be speaking and when. So if you want to go to thenarrowpath.com thenarrowpath.com go to the tab that says announcements and you’ll find each of these dates and what’s going on there and where they’ll be. Alright, so enough of that. We’re going to go to the phones now because our lines have filled up now. And Ryan from Linwood, Washington is our first
SPEAKER 08 :
caller ryan welcome to the narrow path thanks for calling hi steve um so in first corinthians 15 i believe is the the statement that people have said can be traced back to within just a few months of the resurrection yeah some people say that where where do they get that um
SPEAKER 07 :
What they’re saying is that 1 Corinthians was really quite an early letter of Paul, written probably in the early 50s, which is just 30 years after the death of Christ, approximately. And he gives a summary of the appearances of Christ after his resurrection, which people think dates back very, very early. Now, some people have said to within a few months of the resurrection period. I have a feeling that’s pretty speculative, but it’s very clear that it goes very far back.
SPEAKER 08 :
Three or five years even?
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, it could be. I mean, Paul was converted maybe, we don’t know exactly the date of his conversion, but it was probably about three years after Jesus died. And then, of course, he had contact with the other apostles, which is where he would have gotten this list of, So it would be within a very few years after the resurrection that he got this list. Now, he specifically says that he is delivering a list that was given to him by others. He says in verse 3, For I delivered to you, first of all, that which I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, and he rose again the third day according to the Scriptures. And this is the list. And he was seen by Cephas, which means Peter, and then by the twelve, After that, he was seen by over 500 at once, of whom the greater part remained to the present. But some had fallen asleep. After that, he was seen by James and by all the apostles. And last of all, he was seen by me. So he knows when Jesus appeared to him on the road to Damascus. And that was probably in the neighborhood of three or four years, maybe at the most, after the resurrection. But he also knew of these earlier appearances, which he had gotten later. These were delivered to him. This list was given to him. Now, who gave him that list? Well, we know that he had contact with the other apostles. He almost certainly got the list from them. If someone wants to say, well, he was friends with these guys, but they never gave him this list, and he’s kind of making this list up out of his head, it would be the burden of proof beyond them to suggest that. It’s very unlikely. The fact that Paul was in the company of these men very shortly after the resurrection, would speak for his having gotten that list from them. And almost all scholars, and this would include those Christian scholars, but I mean just people who are not trying to disprove the Gospels, people who are not particularly Christian historical scholars and Bible scholars, have suggested that this list probably takes us back to the testimony of the earliest Christians within a very few years. probably less than five years, maybe less than three years. And some might even say a few months. I’m not sure where that would be coming from. I wouldn’t say a few months. I’d say just a very few years. But still, I mean, three, four years after the resurrection, all of the apostles except Judas were still living. And they’re living kind of together in Jerusalem. So, you know, you could talk to all of them kind of at the same time in the same room. so it’s obvious that you’d be getting it right from the horse’s mouth, and very soon afterwards, before they had time to really elaborate on things or whatever. I mean, since they were all together and all acquainted, they could keep each other from telling the story wrongly. I mean, they said, no, that’s not how it happened. You know, this happened instead. You know, I mean, assuming these people were not trying to make something up and fool the world about it, You know, we’re assuming the apostles were honest men, which is, of course, not only the charitable assumption, but the assumption that goes well with the evidence. You know, they didn’t gain anything, you know, financially or anything like that from being apostles. And, of course, all of them were executed for being apostles, except for John. So it seems very clear. We’re not talking about dishonest men here. We’re talking about people who really believed it. And so, you know, Paul’s sitting in a room with these guys a few years after the event, and they’re talking about the appearances. this is what Paul’s referring to here. I got this from these people. And, again, with that many people around, they could certainly correct each other if someone got the details wrong. You know how it is when several people saw one thing and they’re all telling somebody else, you know, no, that was Thursday, that was not Wednesday, you know, that kind of stuff. So, I mean, there’s the idea that Paul’s list, you know, originated from something any later than those meetings would be a somewhat absurd suggestion. And that’s why historians and Bible scholars believe that it goes back to that very early time.
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay. Well, yeah, I was just curious about where people were getting the within a few months part.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, I’m not sure where they’re getting that. I’ve heard various suggestions, but To my mind, it wouldn’t matter whether it was a few months or a few years. I mean, these people are all, you know.
SPEAKER 08 :
Unlike any other historical document or ancient document.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you’ve got all these eyewitnesses still living when it’s being recorded, which is an important, you know, qualification for the reliability of sources. All right, Ryan. Well, thanks for your call. Yep. Thank you. God bless you.
SPEAKER 08 :
God bless you, Steve. Bye.
SPEAKER 07 :
Thank you. And our next caller also happens to be from Washington, from Vancouver, Washington. Rick in Vancouver, welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling.
SPEAKER 11 :
Thank you, Steve. Just what I say, thank you very much for your teaching. I thoroughly enjoy it. I won’t take much time. I’m going through your study on Revelation, your teaching, and I noticed you talk about the first three verses might not have been Don speaking, but maybe the elders were. or whoever had the book. Am I wrong in assuming that?
SPEAKER 07 :
No, that’s correct. Yeah, the first three verses of Revelation speak about John in the third person. You know, as they say, God gave this revelation of Jesus Christ and gave it to John through his angels. And then, of course, in verse 4, John speaks in his own voice, I, John, you know, to the several churches. Yeah. By the way, the book of Ezekiel has some verses like that at the beginning. The second and third verse in the book of Ezekiel are that way too.
SPEAKER 11 :
My question on that was we say that at the end it talks about blessed are those who read this and hear and heed because the time is near. If that’s not written by John, but it’s written by I’m not disputing any of the teaching. I’m just asking a question. Is That is not authoritative then, is it, if it’s just by the elders, unless they’re getting it from other teaching that… You mean the question of whether you’ll be blessed by reading it? Yeah, I believe that’s true, but it’s not a promise from God because it’s a statement from the elders, not from an apostle. Am I wrong in assuming that?
SPEAKER 07 :
No, I would agree with that. I mean, one could argue… that John was still living and that he approved of their putting this prologue onto his work so to have his approval. But yeah, those words do not appear to be inspired in the same sense that the rest of the book is, because the rest of the book is John telling the visions and the words that God gave to him, where this is simply a prologue.
SPEAKER 11 :
Okay. And then along with that, I… about that revelation being fulfilled, the destruction of Jerusalem, the time is near. What are the other places that refer to the time is near rather than this one passage here?
SPEAKER 07 :
Right. I mean, in that prologue, of course, it says it twice. In verse 1 and verse 3, it says the time is at hand. These are things that must shortly take place. But one might argue, well, if the elders of Ephesus put those words there, maybe they weren’t inspired, maybe they were mistaken. But you’ve got other references throughout the book that are not vulnerable to that explanation, especially Revelation 22.10. Revelation 22.10. Yeah, one of the angels tells John, don’t seal up the words of the prophecy of this book because the time is at hand. So, you know, if the elders in the first three verses of chapter one said, well, the time is at hand. They weren’t just guessing because the angel had already told John that the time was at hand. So, you know, they were just perhaps repeating what was clearly stated by inspiration.
SPEAKER 11 :
Okay. I agree. Thank you for your clarification. And God bless you. And I really appreciate your teaching. And stay safe, my friend.
SPEAKER 07 :
All right, Rick. Thanks. God bless you. Good talking to you. All right. We’re going to talk next to Jesse from Orlando, Florida. Jesse, welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling.
SPEAKER 05 :
Hey, Steve, I appreciate it. So I could probably ask you a thousand questions, but, you know, what’s been on my heart a lot is I just want to hear your, you know, your thought on this. You know, what would your message be if you could speak to all the Christians or people from the church, you know, across the country? You know, what would be your message? your message across, you know, if you had 30 minutes to do it, or something like that, what would you really want people to hear?
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, well, by the way, your phone is breaking up real bad, but it was difficult, but I was able to hear what you said. What would I wish to say if I could speak to all the churches? Well, there’s a sense of which every time I’m on the radio, I’m saying the things I would say to anybody who has these questions. The thing is, Like in the book of Revelation, there’s seven letters to seven churches. Each church has different circumstances, and Jesus has something different to say to each of them. Five of them are told they have to repent or else they’ll suffer God’s judgment. They have sins they need to address in their church. Some of them have compromised by having immoral people ministering in the church. Others have simply, you know, they’re very zealous for the truth that they’ve left their first love. One church has become lukewarm. You know, one church has been persecuted. It’s not called to repent. It’s just given encouragement. Now, all of those kinds of churches, all the churches that we have in the Revelation still exist today. So it’s not as if there’s just one message that every church needs to hear at any given time. However, Well, there are certain things that all people need to know at all times. And if that’s what you mean, I guess I would have to say the main concern I have for the church is worldwide and for all people who need to understand the gospel. is that Jesus Christ is the king. God has given all authority in heaven and on earth, and he commands all men everywhere to repent and to be his faithful, obedient followers. Now, many churches, of course, already preach that, so they wouldn’t need me to tell them that. But a lot of churches don’t, and a lot of unbelievers don’t know that. You see, a lot of times, especially in America, the evangelical churches have purveyed a message that God just wants to get you to go to heaven, and he’s made a way for that simply by the death and resurrection of Christ. has simply purchased our forgiveness of sins, and so we can be forgiven, and all we have to do is accept Jesus into our hearts, and we’ll go to heaven. There are probably numberless people in churches in America who’ve heard that gospel, and that’s the gospel they responded to. The truth is, though, that’s not the gospel as preached in the New Testament. The New Testament does not have any focus on getting to heaven, although there is heaven. There is a heaven in the next life for Christians, you know, if we die faithful. But the message of the gospel is not a message about how to remove the obstruction from heaven. And that’s kind of the only thing that many churches have taught on the subject of what they understand the gospel to be about. No, the gospel is about Jesus. It’s about his lordship. God has elevated him, given him a name above every name possible. so that every knee should bow and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. And that means, of course, everyone should embrace his lordship and his rulership. And, of course, if you have a lord or a king, that means you’re his. You obey him. That’s what it means. And many churches have not underscored that because their main interest many times seems to be to get people to say some kind of a prayer, go forward at an altar call, and send them home with the assurance that they’re going to heaven when they die. But none of that really addresses the question of surrender to Jesus Christ as your King and your Lord and live for him every moment of every day afterwards. That’s the call. Paul said in Romans chapter 10 and verse 9, he says, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord, and that’s a very important, essential part of the gospel, that Jesus is Lord, and you believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you’ll be saved. So to me also, I think we need to stop thinking of saved as simply a synonym for going to heaven. The Bible says that Jesus will save his people from their sins, not from hell, but from their sins. It may be their sins that are sending them to hell, but the gospel is not about avoiding hell. It’s about living for God, which means you need to be set free from the slavery of your sins. And Jesus is the one who liberates so that we can live lives that are glorified here because that’s what we exist for. So it’s not just about, you know, on my deathbed, have I done the thing that’s going to make sure I go to heaven? That’s not the message of the New Testament. The New Testament message is that Christ owns us. Christ bought us. We are not our own. We’ve been bought with a price. He’s our king. He’s our Lord. And he did it to redeem for himself a people who are zealous for good works, who are his own people. None of that has any reference to heaven. That has to do with what Christ was purchasing for himself and what he expects to have for that purchase price. And so that’s what I would tell the church. I think many churches already know this, but not as many as should, apparently, at least judging from the kind of gospel you often hear preached. Michael in Englewood, California. Welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling.
SPEAKER 12 :
Yes, Steve, my phone is crackling, but can you hear me okay?
SPEAKER 07 :
You know, I can’t hear the crackling on your phone like I did on the previous one.
SPEAKER 12 :
Okay, cool. I looked at Matthew713.com, but I couldn’t find this question before, so I wanted to ask you something about Matthew 2819, and if your answer is no, I’ll have a follow-up question. Okay. If the Father’s name is Yahweh or Jehovah and the Son’s name is Jesus or Yeshua, is the Son’s name also Yahweh?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, Yeshua is a derivation of the word Yahweh. Yeshua means Yahweh is salvation. Or some would say Yahweh is the Savior. So Yahweh saves is kind of what it is. The name of Yahweh is incorporated in the name of Jesus. But when Jesus says that we should baptize in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, we might not know what he meant by that if we didn’t have the record of how the apostles, to whom he was speaking when he said that, how they carried out those instructions. Because they are the ones that he said that to. And they are also the ones whose ministries are in some measure recorded in the book of Acts. And several times in the book of Acts we read of groups of people or individuals being baptized. Now, of course, these apostles who baptized them heard Jesus say, baptize in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. And when they did so, they baptized in the name of Jesus. So they were no doubt seeing Jesus as the name that encompasses the whole, as some strange English translation shows the word, the whole Godhead. The name means the authority. So you’re baptizing in the authority name. But Christ has been given, as Matthew 20, 18, the previous verse to that which you mentioned, Christ has been given all authority in heaven and earth. So baptizing into the authority of Christ is what that’s about. Now Paul, of course, said in Colossians, I think it’s chapter 2, verse 9, if I’m not mistaken, he said that in Christ… all the fullness of the Godhead dwelt bodily. Now, the fullness of the Godhead would not just be some part of God. The fullness of God dwelt and was manifest bodily on earth in Christ. And so his name would include the name of the whole of the Trinity, the whole of God. Now, it doesn’t mean that Jesus is the whole Trinity alone. God is God. the Trinity, Jesus is that manifestation of God in a human form. And that human form is called Jesus of Nazareth and Jesus the Christ. So it is his name. He’s the one in whose authority we baptize. And what it means, of course, to be baptized into his name is that he becomes the one we’re following. Paul kind of gives an analogy of how the Israelites baptized. This is in 1 Corinthians 10, in the first six verses. Paul gives the analogy of how the Israelites, when they passed through the Red Sea, he says they were baptized into Moses. And, of course, he realizes that his readers have been baptized into Christ. And he actually says in verse 6, 1 Corinthians 10, 6, he says these things were a type of us. That is to say the Israelites coming out of Egypt, being baptized into Moses in the sea, drinking from the spiritual water from the rock and eating spiritual food, as he describes it, that they are a picture of our conversion, of our early Christian experience. Although we were baptized into Christ, they were baptized into Moses. But what does it mean that they were baptized into Moses? It means that previous to that, they had been under the rule of Pharaoh for hundreds of years. But when they passed through the sea, they were leaving Pharaoh and his country behind for good. never to see him again, Moses said, or God said to Moses. And then they were now going to be following Moses. So Paul is using that as an analogy to us being baptized into Christ. They were baptized into Moses, that is, by being baptized. They were announcing and committing to be followers of Moses. And by our being baptized, we’re announcing and committing to be followers of Jesus. So that’s what that’s about. Now, you know, why Jesus called that the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, I don’t know. But there can be no doubt that the apostles understood him to mean that’s the name of Jesus.
SPEAKER 12 :
Amen. Thanks, Steve.
SPEAKER 07 :
All right, brother. Good talking to you. Thanks for your call. All right. Bye now. Let’s see here. Ben from Detroit, Michigan. Welcome to The Narrow Path. Ben, are you there? You know, he’s on line one. And I noticed when I was talking to an earlier caller, some strange activity on line one. Like callers would come in, they’d be there for two seconds, and they’d disappear. And then another one called, and the same thing happened. So I don’t know. Ben, you’re on line one. I don’t hear you. I don’t know if you can hear me. Unless you can speak up soon, I’m going to have to hang up, and you may have to call back, and hopefully you’ll be on them. Line that works. I don’t know what’s the problem with that line. Going once, going twice. All right. Well, Ben, I’m sorry I can’t hear you, can’t answer you right now, but call back. Here’s the number. Just hang up and call back. It’s 844-484-5737. Now, it’s time for a hard break anyway, and we’ll try to, if he calls back, we’ll try to get to him. When he does, we also have another caller waiting from Sacramento, and we have some lines open. If you’d like to be on the program, the number is 844-484-5737. And we are a listener-supported ministry. We take a break at the bottom of the hour to let you know that. And you can find out how to contribute if you want to help us stay on by going to our website, thenarrowpath.com. There’s a tab there about donating. Or you can write to us, for that matter. at The Narrow Path, P.O. Box 1730, Temecula, California, 92593. Now, the website, by the way, is if you’ve never been there, I think most of our regular listeners probably have, but you’d be amazed at what’s at that website. There’s like 1,500 lectures teaching verse by verse through the whole Bible about as well as teaching on many hundreds of topics. There’s also archives of this radio show going back many, many years. And you can listen to all those for free at the website. And in addition to that, there’s a tab that says resources, I think links and resources, something like that. And you’ll see lots of other websites, including our YouTube channel and some other things, that people have made great use of for their benefit. If you have enjoyed the radio show, you definitely should go to the website, and it’s thenarrowpath.com. Everything’s free. You don’t have to donate there, but you can. That’s at thenarrowpath.com. By the way, you can also get our app, which is very useful, and you don’t get that from the App Store or from Google Play like you get most apps. You go to your browser, Safari or whatever, And go to thenarrowpath.app. And up in the top left corner, there will be a drop-down menu to show you how to load it onto your phone at thenarrowpath.app. I’ll be back in 30 seconds. Don’t go away. We have another half hour.
SPEAKER 01 :
The Narrow Path is on the air due to the generous donations of appreciative listeners like you. We pay the radio stations to purchase the time to allow audiences around the nation and around the world by way of Internet to hear and participate in the program. All contributions are used to purchase such airtime. No one associated with The Narrow Path is paid for their service. Thank you for your continued support.
SPEAKER 07 :
Welcome back to the Narrow Path radio broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg, and we are live for another half hour taking your calls. If you’d like to ask a question about the Bible or the Christian faith or raise a difference of opinion you have with the host, you’re always welcome to do so here. The number to call is 844-484-5737. That’s 844-484-5737. Ben from Detroit, Michigan. I tried to call him in our first half hour, and for some reason the line he was on was not working. He’s back. I have to say he’s on the same line he was on before, line one, but let me just see if it’s working this time. Hope so, Ben. Ben, are you there? Welcome to The Narrow Path. Ben, is your phone muted by any chance? Well, this is very frustrating, especially for him, I’m sure. We have not had problems with our phone lines lately, so I don’t know whether it’s a problem with the phone line or a problem with Ben’s phone. Okay. Well, I’m sorry, Ben. We can’t take the call at this point. And it’s not your fault. I don’t know what fault it is, but it’s not your fault that you’re on line one both times. And that just hasn’t worked out for you. Keep trying. If you like, you might get on another line. Jeff from Sacramento, California. How are you doing? Welcome.
SPEAKER 10 :
I’m doing okay. How are you? Yeah, I like what you say about the loyalty factor. in salvation there’s i wish i could talk to you for an hour because there’s there’s a lot of things that people sometimes don’t understand connect there’s a lot of things to even our salvation truth the holy spirit and it doesn’t always happen just at one time where you know i believe people can have the conviction of the holy spirit before they’re even born again that plays in part the you know the the whole debate of the salvation and all that stuff but anyway that I wanted to share with you, though, before I became a Christian, it was a short time, probably just weeks or a month or a couple of months, whatever. Somebody gave me a tape about, you know, the evils in rock music and stuff. Well, I listened to this tape and I was convicted. But also the preacher, his name was Gary Greenwald, a Pentecostal preacher. He quoted the scripture in Genesis chapter 6, you know, where God’s heart was grieved and filled with pain. Well, that hit me hard. And I was like, huh? I had no concept that God could feel pain. And I was so convicted by that, the stuff that was out there, even though I hadn’t become a Christian yet, that the fear of the Lord was out. That’s a big part of salvation, I believe, too, the fear of the Lord. And the fear of the Lord is one of the kind of questions. I believe the fear of the Lord is not just the fear of judgment, which it is, but also the fear of grieving the heart of God. And I realized that the way I live is either going to bring joy to God’s heart or pain. That changed me before I was even born again. And then once I was born again, the day actually after I believed on Christ, I didn’t say a sinner’s prayer. You know, ask Christ into my heart. I believed on him. This preacher, I was in his car, and he went through scriptures with me. But anyway, I didn’t even understand about the asking Jesus in the heart stuff. But anyway, the next day when I got up, I put on a, This was 1984. I put out a record by Kansas called Vital Confessions. It had Christian songs on it. For the first time, I understood the words. And then the words came back to me that I had written to a Christian girlfriend that I had had for a few weeks. She lived in Southern California. I lived in the Napa Valley. Well, we had written before when I wasn’t a Christian. She said how she lived for God. And I wrote back to her and I said, I don’t live for anybody but myself. I thought if you have to look for anybody.
SPEAKER 07 :
Let me jump in here. I like your testimony, but do you have a question?
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah, well, the question is related to the fear of the Lord and playing the part in salvation, that if people have the fear of the Lord, I mean, what do you think about that?
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, well, I mean, the Bible says the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. and it’s also the beginning of knowledge. Proverbs makes that statement. It’s the beginning of knowledge in Proverbs 1, the beginning of wisdom in Proverbs 9, I believe it is. And, of course, when Solomon talks about wisdom and knowledge, he’s talking about the knowledge of God. He’s talking about wisdom in the sense of moral wisdom and alignment with God’s thinking and so forth. And, obviously, if you’re a believer… we are required, Paul said, to be transformed by the renewing of our mind. And that would be, of course, to exchange our foolish worldly wisdom that James talks about with the divine wisdom. And so, I mean, fear of God is very early on there. And by the way, Some people say, well, fear of God, that’s more of an Old Testament idea.
SPEAKER 11 :
No.
SPEAKER 07 :
No, it’s not. Jesus said in Matthew 10, 28. I think it’s 10, 28. He said, do not fear those who can kill the body and can do no more, but fear him who, after he’s killed the body, can destroy your soul. In Gehenna. So Jesus told his disciples. He’s talking to his disciples, not to pagans. He says, fear the one that can… you know, destroy your soul in Hades, or Gehenna, he said. And so, Jesus taught us to fear God. And Peter does too, by the way. Peter, in 1 Peter chapter 1, I think it’s verse 17, he says, if you call God your father, who, without partiality, judges every man according to his works past the time of your sojourning here in fear. In 2 Corinthians 5, Paul says, knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men. So the fear of God is certainly a New Testament teaching taught by Jesus, by Peter, by Paul. It’s in Revelation also. When the angels fly him in heaven in Revelation 14, they say, you know, fear God, keep his commandments, and so forth. The fear of God is, as you mentioned, it’s not just the fear of his judgment. but the fear of, well, displeasing him. And by displeasing him, I think you mentioned giving him sorrow. Some people say, yeah, I’m afraid to displease God because I’m afraid he’ll kill me. Well, no, that’s not the thing. I fear displeasing my wife, not because of anything she would do if I did. She’s not going to kill me or punish me, but I… I just, you know, that’s something I don’t want to do. That’s a priority is when you love somebody, you don’t want to hurt them. And saying, you know, being a Christian means you love God. And if you love God, you don’t want to hurt him. Not because you’re afraid that he’ll hurt you back, although he might, because there is such thing as the discipline of the Lord. If you rebel against God, you could be disciplined. But that’s not the issue. That’s not what’s on your mind when you say, I don’t want to displease God. It’s that, why should I do God wrong when he’s done me only good? It’s more of a matter of conscience than it is a matter of fearing, that is, being afraid of punishment. But you mentioned something about Genesis 6 where it says that the sinfulness of man was great in the earth, and it says God was grieved at his heart. And you mentioned you had not previously thought of God feeling emotions. I might just say that we may have some theologians listening out there who say, well, God doesn’t have emotions. This is a doctrine, which I don’t agree with. At least the Bible doesn’t seem to agree with it. But it’s the doctrine called the impassibility of God. Impassibility means fear. You know, he doesn’t have changing emotions or anything like that. But, you know, he’s beyond being affected by us emotionally. But that’s not true. God is continually talking about himself being grieved, being angry, being pleased. You know, there’s all kinds of emotions that God has. Unless, of course, these are simply anthropomorphic statements where he’s likened to mankind, but there’s no reason why they would have to be. It’s the way he actually has chosen to reveal himself to us as God who does have emotions. If he doesn’t actually have them, the Bible doesn’t say that he doesn’t anywhere, by the way. But if he doesn’t have them, he certainly is fooling us because he talks as though he’s continually activated by emotional responses to what we do. And so, yeah, I mean, the Christian needs to be interested in pleasing God. not because we’re afraid you know i mean there is fear of god reasonable fear of god but that’s not what it’s all about it’s uh it’s about loving god thank you jeff for your testimony uh we’re going to talk to uh let’s see tom from little rock arkansas tom welcome hey steve thanks for taking my call i just had a real quick question for you uh it may be one that you bore out before but uh
SPEAKER 09 :
I’m interested in knowing your thoughts on whether a Christian will be alive when the second coming comes, when Jesus comes in the clouds, I believe in Thessalonians. Will that be a pre-tribulation or a post-tribulation event?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, Paul says right there in 1 Thessalonians 4 that it will happen at the coming of the Lord. He says a few verses earlier, we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord. So he’s talking about the second coming there. And then he says a few verses later that when Jesus descends from heaven with a shout and the voice of the archangel and the trump of God, he said the dead in Christ will rise first and then we who are alive and remain, a term he already had used for we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord. He uses that term again now, we who are alive and remain when Jesus descends from heaven with a shout and the voice of the archangel. will be caught up to meet him in the air. So Paul doesn’t seem to have any idea that there will be a rapture prior to the coming of the Lord, as many people teach. Likewise, in the next epistle, 2 Thessalonians 1, verse 7 and 8, well, verse 6 through 8, Paul says, Since it is a righteous thing, this is 2 Thessalonians 1, 6 through 8, Since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with trouble, those who trouble you, and to give you who are troubled rest with us when… Okay, so this is when God’s going to end our troubles. It’s either when we die or when the Lord comes back. In this case, he’s not mentioned when we die. He says, he’ll give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with the mighty angels in flaming fire, taking vengeance on those who don’t know God. and those who do not obey our gospel, the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. So he said when Jesus comes in flaming fire, taking vengeance on the wicked world, that’s when we will enter into rest with us from our trials with Paul. Now, I believe that he’s, in his theology, we will enter into rest when we’re caught up to meet the Lord in the air. But he identifies that as the time when Jesus comes with flaming fire, taking vengeance on those who don’t know God. That and the fact that Jesus on four occasions in John 6 said that he will raise up his people on the last day, which means, you know, that doesn’t leave any room after that. It’s the last day. There’s no days after that. So, you know, he’s going to raise us up on the last day. So there’s really nothing in the Bible that would suggest that we’re going to be raptured. and then history will go on for a few years. That’s not mentioned anywhere in Scripture.
SPEAKER 09 :
So Christians, they won’t be still, the ones who are alive, you don’t think will still be living during the tribulation times and suffering the same economic consequences that the non-Christians or non-saved people will.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, when we talk about the tribulation, we’re using a term the Bible doesn’t use the way we usually use it. It’s very commonplace for us to use the word tribulation to speak of some specific short period of time before Jesus comes back. Most people make it to be seven years. I’ll just say there’s nothing in the Bible that mentions a seven-year tribulation. Revelation talks about tribulation, but never uses the term seven years, never makes anything seven years long. Although Revelation is full of sevens, seven years is not in there. Jesus used the word, the great tribulation, Matthew 24, 21, and he didn’t say it was any particular length of time either. And those are the only two times really that the great tribulation are mentioned in that terminology. However, the word tribulation is used many times in Scripture, but it generally just speaks of the experience of Christians in this world. Jesus said in John 16, 33, These things I’ve spoken unto you, so that in me you’d have peace. In the world you, he’s talking about the disciples in the upper room, in the world you will have tribulation. But be of good cheer, I have overcome the world. Even in 1 Thessalonians, which is where we read about the rapture in chapter 4, the previous chapter, chapter 3, verse 4. He says, in fact, we told you before when we were with you that we would suffer tribulation, just as it happened, and you know. So Jesus said, in the world you will have tribulation. Paul said, we told you before, and you found out we were right, that you would have tribulation. So where are we going to find the place where either Jesus or Paul or someone else says, we won’t, or that we’ll be caught up in the air before there’s tribulation? That simply is never mentioned. That’s simply a tenet of a modern theological system called dispensationalism. It’s not the teaching of Scripture, and it’s not the teaching of the historical church at all. It’s a rather new doctrine. So it’s very popular, as you know. Perhaps 90% of the people on Christian radio teach pre-tribulation rapture. Many large denominations teach it in America, but it’s a new doctrine. I mean, it hasn’t been around 200 years yet. Almost. It’s been around almost 200 years now, 195 years probably by now. But it’s a very new doctrine, and it’s not what the Bible teaches. In fact, the Bible teaches against it. So, you know, the fact that everyone we know, all the preachers we love, they teach that doctrine. We can’t allow that to sway us from agreeing with what the Bible actually says. And, you know, all the preachers we know who teach it, of course, they were trained to teach it. There are seminaries that teach this. And so I was trained to teach it. And I did. I did teach it for years. But, you know, eventually you have to go with what the Bible says. You come to a crisis when you read the Bible sometimes about many things. and saying, okay, the Bible says this, my teachers say that, which am I going to believe, because they don’t agree with each other. And I came to that crisis back in the mid-70s, actually, and had to move away from that doctrine. Anyway, I appreciate your call, brother. God bless you. Okay, our next caller is, let’s see, by the way, that was on line one. The line that Ben from Michigan was not able to get through on twice, that last call was on line one. So there’s something, the line is working. So Ben was having some problems with the phone, I suppose. Reggie from Vallejo, California, welcome. Thanks for joining us. Hello, Reggie. Maybe our problem on our phone line is moving through the switchboard and affecting different lines at different times. You might want to check and make sure your phone isn’t muted. Sometimes if you’re holding the phone to your cheek.
SPEAKER 06 :
Hello. Hello, Steve.
SPEAKER 07 :
There you go. Hi, Reggie. Where were you?
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, Steve. Sorry. You know, I was on mute. Sorry about that.
SPEAKER 07 :
I’m afraid that happens a lot.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. Go ahead. It does, Steve. Thank you so much. I have a simple question about baptism, and you can answer over the air. That is, is it appropriate to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or just in the name of Jesus, or could we use both? That’s my question, sir.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yes. Any of those formulas are legitimate. If you baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, if that’s the formula you used, you’re doing exactly what Jesus said to do in Matthew 28, 19. If you baptize in the name of Jesus, if that’s the formula you used, you’re doing it just the way the apostles did it. Now, as we were talking to the earlier caller today, the apostles, I think, followed Christ obediently. And therefore, when he said baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, they interpreted that name differently. to be the name of Jesus, and that’s what they used. Now, can you use both? Of course. I mean, there’s going to be people who criticize you if you baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, because they are what we call Jesus-only. They believe you can only baptize in the name of Jesus. So, of course, what you could do, if you’re so inclined, you could say, I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son, Jesus Christ. And of the Holy Spirit. And you covered all the bases there. No one can complain about that, I would think. All right. Thank you, brother, for that call. Let’s talk to Arthur from Puyallup, Washington. I’ve always had trouble saying that word. Hi, Arthur. Welcome.
SPEAKER 04 :
Hi, Steve. Thank you. That was a good pronunciation. As a follower of Jesus, when there seems to be a need, I usually say either, I rebuke you, Satan, in the name of Jesus, or sometimes I’ll just say, the Lord rebuke you, Satan. Is there any wrong way to say that?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, not necessarily. The interesting thing is we don’t find any human being saying something like that in the Bible. We see an angel, Michael the archangel in Jude, verse 9, was rebuking Satan and said, the Lord rebuke you, Satan, where, of course, the angel’s authority is not the same as that of the Christian, because the Christian is given the name of Christ and the authority of Christ to conduct our confrontations with the powers of darkness. And so, I mean, an angel might not have a higher rank than the devil himself and may have to just say, the Lord rebuke you, whereas we might be able to say, I rebuke you in the name of Jesus. But if I say I rebuke you in the name of Jesus, it’s kind of the same thing as saying the Lord rebuke you. It’s like when Peter healed in Acts chapter 3, he said to the lame man, he said, in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk. But when he healed Aeneas in, I think it’s Acts chapter 9, he said, Jesus Christ heals you. Now, it’s like, what’s the difference? Nothing, really. If Peter’s healing in the name of Jesus, he is the agent of Jesus. He’s a member of Christ’s body. What is done by Christ’s body is done by Christ. And so to say, you know, in the name of Jesus, I command you to be healed is not really in meaning different than the Lord commands you to be healed. The Lord heals you. And it may be so if it comes to rebuking Satan. Now, the only rebuking of Satan done by people in the Bible that we ever read about was when somebody was rebuking a demon within a person. You know, we do read of Jesus and the apostles rebuking demons themselves. who are in possession of people. And the rebuking of the demons caused them to be silenced and, in most cases, be exorcised. And maybe every case. So this is the only rebuking of the devil we know of in the Bible. Now, it has become customary for many people to, whenever they feel tempted, whenever they feel the devil is, you know, causing their car not to start, whenever, you know… They’re tormented by something. I rebuke you, Satan. Now, I’m not saying you can’t do that. All I know is that we don’t know any case in the Bible where people were told to do that or did that. I think praying to God is as good as rebuking Satan in that case because, you know, sometimes people become distracted from praying to God, from their focus on God, and they become more obsessed with talking to the devil about things. rebuking him in particular. All I can say is we don’t have a biblical mandate or a biblical example of that. We do have examples of people rebuking demons that are in other people in the process of casting them out. But generally speaking, what many other people, many Christians say, I rebuke you, Satan, for this or that. I’m not going to say you can’t do that. Your question is, should you say, you could say, the Lord rebuke you. Well, an angel said that. I don’t know why you couldn’t say that. Or, I mean, if God wants you to rebuke the devil, there’s no reason you can’t do it in the name of Jesus. It’s just that in spiritual warfare, rebuking Satan is not really one of the things that Paul or Jesus or anyone else in the Bible presents as one of the activities in that warfare. But I’m not going to say you can’t do it. We often do a lot of things mostly because that’s the custom that has come down to us through our particular church. Only one more call today because we’re running out of time. Bernardo in Oviedo, Florida. Bernardo, welcome to the narrow path.
SPEAKER 02 :
Thank you for taking my call.
SPEAKER 07 :
Sure.
SPEAKER 02 :
I have a question that’s bothered me that I don’t have the answer to, and it’s Jesus came and is supposed to be constrained to physical form and to follow our human rules so that he knows what it’s like to be us. So if I took… the property of another individual and destroyed it, I would go to jail and they would consider that sinful. Why was it not a sin when Jesus Christ basically destroyed 2,000 pigs and probably brought that person, whoever owned it, to financial ruin?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, first of all, Jesus didn’t destroy any pigs. The demons asked permission to leave a man and go into the herd of swine, and Jesus said, okay. He didn’t say, and by the way, destroy those pigs. He just allowed the demons to go, and the demons did what demons do. So Jesus didn’t destroy the pigs. Now, there’s another aspect to this. Jewish people weren’t supposed to have pigs. You know, the Jews were not allowed to eat pork. So whoever was raising those pigs was in some sense compromising, assuming they were Jewish-owned. Now, he was over on the other side of the Jordan River. in the region of the Decapolis, and it’s possible that some Gentiles own those pigs. But, yeah, I don’t see Jesus as the one who’s destroyed the pigs. He just didn’t. The demons knew. They had to go wherever Jesus would let them go. And they said, please, don’t send us out of the territory. Don’t send us to the pit, the abuso. Instead, let us go into the swine. And Jesus said, go ahead. You know, he just, he didn’t stop them. He didn’t make them go to the abyss, which is what they requested he would not make them do. And he allowed them to go where they wished, and in this case, the pigs, and then the demons destroyed things. You know, the thief comes to rob and to kill and to destroy, but Jesus came that we might have life and that more abundantly, it says in John 10.10. So this is not a case of Jesus destroying property, at least in my opinion it’s not. Well, I will say this, that when the devil came to God and asked permission to destroy Job’s wealth, and God said, okay, go ahead. The devil went out and stirred up a band of Bedouins to go and kill his servants and steal his camels and his sheep, the Bible says. God didn’t do that. God didn’t steal the sheep or the camels. These Bedouins did. No doubt inspired by Satan. But God did allow Satan to do it. And God allows the devil to do a lot of things. Everything that should not be done by human beings, but is done anyway, is allowed by God. Not allowed in the sense that he gives them permission, but that he doesn’t stop it. He doesn’t interfere. That’s, in a sense, allowing something to happen. But he’s not giving… any kind of permission for the damage that they’re doing. And that would be true of the pigs, too. He allowed the pigs, or he allowed the demons to go into the pigs. Then, of course, whatever happened was on the demons, not him. Well, we’re out of time for today’s show. I appreciate your call. You’ve been listening to The Narrow Path. We are listener-supported. You can go to our website and donate there if you wish, at thenarrowpath.com. Thanks for joining us.
