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SPEAKER 01 :
Good afternoon and welcome to The Narrow Path radio broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg and we’re live for an hour each weekday afternoon with a phone line that’s open for you to call if you have questions about the Bible or about the Christian faith. And you can also call if you disagree with the host and want a balanced comment. The number to call is 844-484-5737. There are a couple of lines open on the switchboard, which means if you call now, you can get in. 844-484-5737. I’ve been announcing I will, through tomorrow, be announcing that this weekend, beginning tomorrow, that’s Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, I will be speaking in the Minneapolis, general Minneapolis area, I think probably about an hour from Minneapolis north. in Isanti, Minnesota. And if you have access to that area, if you’re near there and want to join us, you’re welcome to do so. Tomorrow night they want me to speak on how to study the book of Revelation. Saturday they want me to talk about the signs of the times. And then on Sunday, Jesus and the throne of David. So this is going to be about eschatology kind of stuff. And if you’re interested in that, you can go to one or all of those meetings. Just go to our website, thenarrowpath.com, and look under announcements, and you will see there the time and the place of the meetings. Now, the host who is inviting me wants me to give out his phone number. If you don’t have access to the Internet and can’t get the information from there, he wants you to feel free to call him. I’ll give you the phone number. You’ve got a pencil ready. His name is Mark, and his number is 612-387-4542. I’ll give you his number again. It’s 612-387-4542. And our lines have just filled up, so we’re going to go talk to our people now. Well, actually, before we do, I just got an email just as the show was about ready to go on. from Tammy in Hawaii. And I hope she’s listening because I just got her email like less than 10 minutes ago. And she said, hello, she said, aloha. I need some help explaining what happened to my teenagers. They were shown the video of Charlie Kirk’s assassination by friends at school on social media. They were deeply grieved and And I just don’t have the words to explain why did God allow this to happen. I’m a new Christian myself, so let me know what you’d suggest. Mahalo and God bless from Tammy. Well, I can see why this might seem like a strange thing to a new Christian, because living in Hawaii or in the United States or in the West in general, we don’t have as much discussion about as they did throughout most of history, and certainly did in the Bible times, of the suffering and martyrdom. That is fairly normal in Christian experience. Now, some people might think Charlie Kirk was mainly a political figure. He was described in the news just at the top of the hour as a conservative political figure or something like that. Well, he certainly was that, but he was, first of all, a Christian man, and The positions he talked about, he talked about from a biblical basis. He believed in God. He believed the Bible. He said that when he died, he hoped that he would be remembered for his faith more than anything else, although lots of people are talking about him and remembering lots of other amazing things that were accomplished in his short life. He was only 31 when he died yesterday. But, you know, he was a Christian, and he was taking a stand. And Jesus said, blessed are you when they persecute you, when you’re hated and despised, and they cast out your name as evil for my name’s sake. And that’s, I think, what Charlie knew he was doing. By the way, all conservative pundits on any social media or television or any other media, They received death threats. They received death threats a lot. It’s a very common place. They just get used to it. And he had, of course, received death threats. But, you know, you can either be intimidated by those or just say, well, if I perish, I perish. Sort of like what Esther said when she had to either follow principle or keep out of danger. She said, I’m going to do it. And if I perish, I perish. That’s really the position that a godly man takes. When he’s got a mission that he’s on, when he’s a spokesman, as he believes for what God wants him to say, he knows people want to kill him. Lots of people want to kill people these days. It wasn’t the case so much when I was a kid that everyone, you know, so many people wanted to kill other people. But it’s a very commonplace thing now. But it was very commonplace in biblical times, too. The Apostle Paul and Peter and John. The book of Acts is pretty much about how people wanted to kill him. And eventually they did. They were all killed. Also Stephen, the first martyr. I sometimes think of Charlie Kirk being a little like Stephen in that respect because Stephen was not a clergyman per se. He was just a Christian. He was just a Christian man who got into discussions with people who didn’t agree with him in the synagogue. And the Bible says they couldn’t resist the wisdom and the spirit with which he debated them. And so they killed him. That’s basically what they did. there’s a certain mindset, mostly they’d be on the conservative side, and certainly Christians would be of this mindset, that, you know, it’s a good thing to talk about things that people disagree about so that we can come to the knowledge of the truth. Because anyone who believes in truth, believes that debate is a very healthy thing, at least it can be, and that it’s one of the best ways to know what the truth is. The proverb says, he that is first in his own cause seems right until his neighbor comes and cross-examines him. And so, I mean, cross-examination of ideas and so forth is a very good way to grow in the knowledge of truth, and Christians believe that. Most conservatives seem to believe that. A lot of people who are left-leaning do not believe that. They believe it’s, you know, debate. Well, you know, if they could win debates, they would believe in debate. You know, in other words, if you have the truth on your side and you’re decent at being able to articulate the truth, you’ll win the debates because the truth is on your side. If you don’t have the truth on your side, you can be the most articulate person in the world and all your arguments be nonsense because you’re arguing against the truth. You’re arguing for what’s not true. So it’s my opinion that one reason that people on the left do not like debating is because they can’t win any debates and they don’t even try. They don’t even try to debate anymore. But, you know, anyone who loves truth will think of debate as a good thing. Now, of course, Charlie Kirk is famous for debating on campuses. Stephen, the martyr, debated in the synagogues. And it says they could not resist the wisdom and the spirit with which he spoke. So, of course, they killed him. He was the first Christian martyr. Why did God let that happen? Well, that’s because that’s what happens. We’re in this world… We’re not in a playground here. We’re in a battleground. And that’s what many Christians don’t realize because, until recently at least, in the West, Christians could pretty much say what they wanted to do, live the way they wanted to do. People might have hated them, might have disagreed with them, might have even, you know, avoided them. But on the other hand, they didn’t, generally speaking, kill people for disagreeing. But people are getting really frustrated now because… And so many people in this country are now seeking to live by ideas that are not true. And it’s a lot easier for them to do so if nobody is pointing out to them that their ideas are not true. Now, to point out to somebody that their ideas are not true is not an unloving thing. It may make them uncomfortable, especially if they’re very egotistical and narcissistic and think that anyone who disagrees with them is out of line because everything is based on them and what they want. But actually, it’s a very loving thing to correct people who are wrong because Jesus said the truth will make you free. And to the extent that what you believe isn’t true, you’re not yet free in the sense that God wants us to be. And so to tell the truth to people, to debate with people is a loving thing to do because truth is good for you. It’s painful sometimes, like salt in a wound, but it will heal the wound. And so, I mean, Charlie Kirk, I think, was a very loving guy. I don’t know much about his religious beliefs. I know I heard him speak up for Israel in a way that made me think he’s probably a dispensationalist, but so are a lot of Christians dispensationalists. I think he loved God. He loved his family. I think he was a man of high character. And I think he died because he told the truth. And when you’re talking to your daughters or your children about that, just say this is what Jesus said would happen. It just hasn’t happened so much in the past few generations, but it’s beginning to happen again here. Jesus said in Matthew chapter 10, verses 38 and 39, He who does not take his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me. That means, you know, if you’re not willing to die for him. He says, he who finds his life will lose it. He who loses his life for my sake will find it. He’s talking to his disciples about, you know, I’m sending you out to preach, and there’s going to be people, he says, you’re going to be hated by everybody, they’re going to arrest you, they’re going to beat you, they’ll throw you in prisons, and some of you they’ll kill, he says. And then he says, but whoever loses his life for my sake is finding it. Whoever just, who tries to save his life will lose it. So, I mean, Jesus frames the whole mission that he has come to inaugurate, and his disciples are to perpetuate, as one of a that involves conflict. Not conflict in the sense that we take up swords or guns and fight in that way against people who disagree. That’s what the other side does. That’s not what we do. We don’t believe that guns and bullets and things like that convince anyone of the truth. You know, iron bars do not a prison make, you know. The mind is free. even when you’re in prison or when you’re at gunpoint. But to be persuaded of the truth is a very powerful thing. And so I believe that it threatens people. Satan is the father of all lies, and therefore he’s very much against people knowing the truth because the truth will make them free. And so if somebody is very effective at spreading the truth, the devil really, in many cases, has a target on their back. And I believe Charlie Kirk has had that target on his back because he was very effective. And yet, you know, the devil has not really learned his lesson yet. Back in the 1950s when I was a kid, there were five missionaries in Ecuador, Jim Elliott being the most famous of them, Nate Saint being another one, and three others. They all were killed by natives in Ecuador in the Amazon when they went down to preach the gospel to them. And so I’m sure the devil was glad to get rid of them. But the problem was, the problem for the devil was, that when the news of their death reached America, over a thousand college students in America signed up to go on the mission field. So, I mean, the devil takes out five and now he’s got a thousand new ones to contend with. So, you know, the blood of martyrs is seed of the church. And I wouldn’t be surprised if many of the people who were activated by Charlie Kirk’s ministry, will rise up to take the mantle and continue his work. That remains to be seen, but the devil is counting on that not happening. And so, you know, what you need to tell your kids is this world is a spiritual warfare. There’s the devil and his kingdom making war against Christ and his kingdom. We don’t use violence like he does. But we use the truth, and the truth is actually, in the end, more powerful than violence. Now, the death of Charlie Kirk is an example of the enemy using violence against the truth. Charlie was an example of someone who didn’t use any violence. He didn’t even use any hateful language. He just, in a very cheerful way, with a smile on his face, in a very respectful way, he just corrected people. And there’s a certain kind of people who just don’t like to be corrected. And especially if they can’t resist their arguments. And that’s that’s why Stephen was killed. I believe that’s why Charlie Kirk was killed as well. And who knows? Maybe more of us will be killed that way. But I don’t know. I mean, this might be a turning point not to. I mean, if you pardon the pun, this might be a turning point in our history or it might be. It could go either way, so we’ll just have to see. But it only reminds us that this is a warfare, and we should have known that all along if we were paying attention to the Bible. Unfortunately, the church hasn’t taught people that as much as it should, because a lot of people are taught that if they follow Jesus, they’ll prosper, they’ll be in good health, they’ll be raptured before there’s any troubles. I mean, all kinds of exemption ideas are associated with the gospel as it’s preached in America. But not the way it’s preached in the Bible. The Bible doesn’t know any such gospels as that. In the Bible, the gospel is that there’s another king, Jesus, and he’s invading the kingdom of Satan. And there’s a war going on until the victory is final. Until every knee bows and every tongue confesses that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. So that’s what I would perhaps tell your children. If you can’t remember all that, you can play them this recorded answer that I just gave you because we’re going to be, you know, our website, BenAeropath.com, has archives of all the show for free. Okay, let’s talk to Gary from Nutley, New Jersey. Gary, welcome.
SPEAKER 09 :
Hi, Steve. Yeah, very sad what happened yesterday. And also the murder on the subway train in North Carolina. What an evil, sick world we live in, right? So, anyway, my question is, I’m just going to keep praying. And, you know, my first instinct was like, boy, I wish I had a gun. I wanted to shoot that guy. But then the Lord said, well, whatever, we have to pray. He said his vengeance is his. He’ll take care of that, right? So we have to pray for people, right? So, anyway, my question is, 1 Timothy 2, Paul speaks about women should learn in silence. and not have dominion over a man or have authority over a man. So the question I have regarding that, there are a lot of women pastors I notice in some churches. Was that his opinion or is that a command? And if women do teach that, do that. Was that more or less his? I was speaking to a friend of mine. He said, no, it’s more or less an opinion, not a command. What’s your opinion on that?
SPEAKER 01 :
Now, why would your friend’s opinion trump the Apostle Paul’s opinion.
SPEAKER 09 :
That’s what I said. I said, well, if they’re doing that, isn’t that being disobedient? If you’re a women pastor, that’s my opinion.
SPEAKER 01 :
Let us say that that is Paul’s opinion. Does that mean it’s not a true opinion? I mean, why would I think that my opinion would be more enlightened than the opinion of a man who saw Jesus face-to-face on the road to Damascus? who was caught into the third heaven and saw and heard things that were so profound that he said it wasn’t lawful for him to repeat them all, who was recognized by the twelve apostles as an apostle of Christ like themselves, who had revelations and visions, who walked with Christ and suffered for Christ, as a martyr for Christ eventually. Now, that’s a man who would probably have more, you know, first-hand knowledge of God’s opinion about things than I would. Now, if I say, well, that was Paul’s opinion, but I have a different opinion. Well, okay. Frankly, I don’t. I mean, I’m not sure that I would have a different opinion. As far as I’m concerned, I see nothing wrong with his opinion. But suppose I did have a different opinion on that or something else that Paul said. Well, what reason would I have to think that my opinion had a better basis for being trusted than his? To my mind, only narcissism on my part would be a basis for believing such a thing. Because I’m not Paul. I wasn’t chosen by Jesus to be the apostle to the Gentiles and to write 13 books of Scripture. I’m not that person. Why would my opinion carry… the kind of weight that his should carry. Now, some people say, well, he’s writing under inspiration, which makes it even more than his opinion. Well, it could be. But there were times when Paul did give his opinion. In 1 Corinthians 7, he said, you know, I don’t have any word from the Lord about this matter of virgins, but I give my opinion. He says, I give my opinion as one who’s found grace and mercy to be found faithful. You know, in other words, I don’t have a direct command from God, but I have a thought about this. and this thought is coming from a person who’s received special mercy from God to be faithful and so forth, I would say, you know, I’d be very reluctant to disagree with his opinion on anything. And anyone who isn’t reluctant to do so strikes me as a person who’s of unusual arrogance.
SPEAKER 09 :
Right, right. So do you think they’re being disobedient if there are women pastors? Do you think they’re wrong? That would be the question I have.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, I think they’re wrong. I think they’re wrong. They may not think they’re being disobedient because they might have some wrong opinion about Paul. Christians do have wrong opinions about lots of subjects. And when we act on wrong opinions, we do the wrong things. On the other hand, of course, having a wrong opinion isn’t the end of the world. It’s certainly something we should try to avoid. We should always seek to have the truth.
SPEAKER 02 :
Right, right.
SPEAKER 01 :
as our correct opinion. And when we submit to those truths that the Bible teaches, including the opinions of the apostles, if that’s what they are, then we’re the safest. We’re safe in having the right opinions if they agree with those of the apostles. So I just would say, you know, I’m not going to condemn them. I do believe this, that the statements Paul made are in the connection of appointing elders in the church. which would be like pastors. And Paul is giving not just the statement about women, but also a statement about men. He talks about how an elder has to be the husband of one wife. He’s got to be without reproach in the community. He’s got to have his children obedient to the faith. He’s got to be a man known for his honesty, not given over to wine or not greedy for gain. In other words, he’s got to be a pretty good Christian man. And not all people in the church, even the men, would qualify for So Paul is setting a high standard and saying, I would appoint this kind of person as an elder. Not a woman, not a man who doesn’t fit these qualifications, but this only just kind of unusual. I mean, he shouldn’t be unusual. Most Christians should be like that man, but sometimes they are a little unusual. Now, what if you have a church where nobody qualifies? I mean, I mentioned Jim Elliot a moment ago toward another point. When Jim Elliott died, his wife and daughter went down to the natives that killed her husband. And she evangelized them, and they became Christians. And she obviously, as the one who converted them, had to set them up as some kind of a church. And she was the only Christian there, so she had to kind of lead the original converts initially. But later in life, and probably even at that time, she didn’t believe women should be pastors. But she was apparently willing to fill in the emergency. And I and I think that that’s probably seeing things correctly. You know, if there’s nobody in the church who really fits all the qualifications for elders, but you’ve got someone who almost does and you need someone in that role, then I would say, well, OK, I guess you can. You got to take what you got. But Paul is, of course, speaking in a situation where, ideally, this is what we want. This is what we want our leaders to fit these qualifications. And any church that has leaders who do should not appoint people in leadership who don’t. That’s what I think. And that would include women, Paul said. So that’s my take on it. So, you know, are women who are pastors disobedient? I would say women who are pastors, it may be that they’re disobedient or they may be ignorant. They may misunderstand. what the Bible teaches. I’m not ultimately their judge about that, but I would, you know, if I were in a church where a woman was pastor, I would certainly talk to her about that and tell her what I think the scripture says. If I found her to be not concerned about truth, but more concerned about retaining her position, then I would find another church to go to. I wouldn’t go to her church. That’d be my way of handling a situation. All right. Hey, thanks for your call. Let’s see. Our next caller, we’ve got a lot of calls. Oh, Tammy from Honolulu, Hawaii, whose email I answered at the beginning, she has called, I guess, with a follow-up. Hi, Tammy.
SPEAKER 05 :
Hey, Steve. Aloha. Thank you so much. I didn’t expect you to reply to that email or speak about it, so thank you. I actually called for another reason. You know, I am a new Christian, and I’ve been with my children’s father for, We’re high school sweethearts, about 25 years now, but we’re not married. And as new Christians, we feel the urgency to be obedient and get married. And it was just something we’ve always put off. Marriage on my side of the family is not something that was encouraged for many different reasons. And so my question for you is, what would you… What would you say that I should consider? I want a man’s point of view. I’ve gotten a woman’s point of view. But from a Christian man, what would you say my duties or responsibilities would be, you know, as I prepare to get married and actually get married? What would you say to me from a man, a Christian man to a Christian woman? And I’ll take my answer off the air.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, before you go, I want to ask you. Do you and your partner, do you go to church somewhere?
SPEAKER 05 :
We do, yes. We go to the King’s Chapel on the east side of the island.
SPEAKER 01 :
Okay. And you have a date set to get married? I mean, you’ve made those arrangements?
SPEAKER 05 :
We have not. We recently attended a power conference, and we were prophesied it over, and, you know, this was something that we knew. We’ve been going for about maybe a year now, and we always knew that this was something that we should do to be obedient, and it was just one of the things that we were checking off the list. You know, we wanted to get the kids into church, and so forth, and here we are now, and so we feel the urgency to be obedient and just do it. We’ve already decided we’re not going to have a big thing. It might just be him and I and our children, but we are scheduled to go to… Thank you. Amen. We are scheduled to go to marriage counseling with our pastor in the next week, but I’m really going into this just from what I’ve read in the Bible, but I haven’t gotten… a man’s perspective, a Christian man’s perspective on what he, through the Bible, believes a wife should be and do and so forth.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, I’ll tell you, I’ve actually taught more frequently on what husbands are supposed to be than on what wives should be. There are very good books written by Christian women about being Christian wives. Some are written by the woman I mentioned a moment ago, Elizabeth Elliot. I wrote that down. Thank you. She’s written a number of books. Go online and look at her books and you’ll see quite a few of them will be about what a woman or a wife is supposed to be like. I highly recommend her. I do have a series of lectures at my website at thenarrowpath.com called Toward a Radically Christian Counterculture. It’s kind of a long name for the series. It’s called Toward a Radically Christian Counterculture. If you go to that series and open it up, you’ll see there’s quite a few lectures, but Look at the titles of them, and you’ll see there’s some things related to marriage and husbands and wives and things like that. So I’d recommend you go there. I do have to get off the air here for a moment because we have a break, but I hope that will help. That’s at thenarrowpath.com. Under Topical Lectures, find Tortoradically Christian Counterculture. God bless you. You’re listening to The Narrow Path. Our website’s thenarrowpath.com. I’ll be back in 30 seconds. Don’t go away.
SPEAKER 03 :
toward a radically Christian counterculture, as well as hundreds of other stimulating lectures, can be downloaded in MP3 format without charge from the Narrow Path website, www.thenarrowpath.com. There is no charge for anything at the Narrow Path website. Visit us and be amazed at all you’ve been missing. That web address, www.thenarrowpath.com.
SPEAKER 01 :
Welcome back to The Narrow Path Radio Broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg, and we’re live for another half hour, taking your calls. We have one line open. If you’d like to call, the number is 844-844-8444. Our next caller comes from Jim in Sacramento, California. Hi, Jim. Welcome to The Narrow Path.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yes, Steve. And, by the way, the voice on the announcement in the middle, does that happen to be our good friend John Dick?
SPEAKER 01 :
Yes. Yes, that was him.
SPEAKER 07 :
I thought so. Steve? He is a great man of God and Salinas.
SPEAKER 01 :
I agree. So what’s your question, brother?
SPEAKER 07 :
Okay. Well, I want to very quickly first say that in the words of the late Dave McElhatton, that Charlie Kirk has a one-up on us now. He can see Jesus.
SPEAKER 01 :
That’s true. That’s true.
SPEAKER 07 :
And my question, question actually goes to something you said on yesterday’s program and I was in the queue and I didn’t get on so I didn’t get to talk about it but you were talking about Jesus and his being God and you almost inferred that he didn’t say anything about his being God uh And I would have to say au contraire. The Holy Gospel according to St. John chapter 10, which interestingly is the only reference to the winter holidays that we celebrate.
SPEAKER 01 :
Right. That’s where Jesus said the Father and I are one. Right. Uh-huh.
SPEAKER 07 :
He said something more there. And… It’s what they crucified him for.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, okay, quickly, give me the verse you’re thinking of, because there’s noise on your line. Okay.
SPEAKER 07 :
When they were talking about, well, how could you know Abraham?
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, that’s chapter 8. That’s chapter 8, yeah.
SPEAKER 07 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 01 :
Verse 58. He said, before Abraham was, I am. Yeah.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah. It’s interesting, in the original text, John transitions first out of Greek to the Aramaic that Jesus spoke, and then at the I Am, he goes to Hebrew. And what happened there, and it was the reason for the cross, And I will say that if the Pharisees had been correct, they would have been absolutely right in doing what they did. The problem was they weren’t correct.
SPEAKER 01 :
Right. Well, I want to clarify something. When I said that Jesus didn’t publicly say he was God or the Messiah or whatever, I was talking about, and I think I made this point, because the questioner, had asked about how the disciples or any Jew would feel hearing Jesus say, if you’ve seen me, you’ve seen the Father, or that kind of thing. He says, believe in God, believe also in me. And someone said, how would a Jew feel about that? I said, well, that was made late in his ministry to his disciples, who had had a lot of time to recognize that he had some credibility to say something like that. But I said, most of the Jews, when he first showed up in Galilee, would not have… had to confront that kind of offense because he didn’t, I’m talking about in his Galilean ministry, which was the majority of his ministry, he didn’t say anything about himself being God or even very specifically about being the Messiah except at Caesarea Philippi to his disciples and on trial and privately to the woman at the well. So what I was saying is that by the time the disciples heard Jesus say that, they had been with him for a long time and would not have been probably convinced They would figure he had credibility. Whereas in the early part of his ministry, the majority of which was in Galilee, he didn’t really talk about his being God and things like that. Now, the verse in chapter 8 of John and in chapter 10 of John, there are a couple of places. In John 8, 58, of course, Jesus said, Yeah, I believe he was claiming to be God there. I believe that was considerably later in his ministry. I don’t know that it was so much of a public announcement in his preaching as it was part of his debate with the Pharisees. I don’t believe Jesus ever denied that he was God or never alluded to it. But I just don’t believe that Jesus was out among the crowds from day one or even early on saying, hey, I’m God, I’m God. I think that he showed who he was with his actions. And then he later said to the Pharisees, you know, if I’m not doing the works of my father, then don’t believe me. He based it on his works. In fact, even in John 10, 31, where he said, in verse 30, he said, I and my father are one. It says, then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. And Jesus answered them, many good works I’ve shown you from my father. For which of these works do you stone me? So in other words, he’s saying, hey, Why are you finding this so difficult to accept who I am when you’ve seen me do the works that only God does, usually? So anyway, I’ll take that correction. But I mean, technically, I was saying something different. I was saying that in the Galilean ministry, back when people were first becoming acquainted with him and seeing who he was by his works, he wasn’t at that point. asking them to believe he was God. But you’re right, in later times, and especially John’s Gospel is pretty much the only one that records these, is that he did allude to himself being God. Though I’m not sure that we could say that was in his public preaching so much as in his public debate with the Pharisees. But that’s, I mean, that’s probably neither here nor there. I appreciate you bringing that up, Jim. All right, let’s see here. Michael in Englewood, California. Welcome to The Narrow Path.
SPEAKER 04 :
Hi, Steve. I’m calling because yesterday I had a question, but I hung up because I got taken aback by something you said. And I just kind of, I don’t know how to ask it, so I’ll just say it. Do you believe left wing is more or less democratic?
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, more Democrats are definitely on the left wing than Republicans are. I’m not speaking of party Republicans. I’m talking about philosophy. There’s left wing and right wing would be philosophies, political philosophies. The terminology actually comes from what I understand. I heard this some years ago, that the idea of there being a left wing and a right wing comes from Britain and their parliament, that the liberals sat on the left side of the parliament, the liberal party, and the conservatives on the right. And from that convention of the parliament, left-wing views came to be associated with what we would call liberal views and right-wing with what we call conservative. But, of course, no one in this country belongs to any of the parties in England. So it’s not really a party thing. It’s more of one’s view of political issues. Do they take a more leftist or right-wing view of them? Okay.
SPEAKER 04 :
And this is so it’s been bothering me basically all night. And because basically I didn’t really know what it meant. So I looked up, you know, far left is communist and then far right is fascist, which is similar to Nazism. So it kind of almost seemed from my point of view that what you were saying was almost racial as in. you know, when we don’t really talk, we’ll just, like, shoot or whatever. But then it seems like the two assassination attempts on Trump were from Republican voters. So I was just saying that was kind of bothering me.
SPEAKER 01 :
I don’t understand anything you’ve just said. Now, you know, I don’t understand anything about the racialness. I didn’t say anything about race at all. I wasn’t even thinking about race. And what I said wouldn’t apply to race. There’s races. I mean, there’s people of every race. on the right wing, and there’s people of every race on the left wing. So I don’t really see how that has any racial connotations at all. And as far as, you know, you said those who tried to assassinate Trump were Trump voters, you said?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, I don’t think that’s true. I don’t think they were. But that’s okay, because that’s not a biblical question. That’s a question of, you know, current events. I don’t claim expertise on current events. For example, I do know, I remember… that Trump, you know, someone shot Trump and hit him in the ear, and that was, you know, it. But as far as who the shooter was, I don’t know. I mean, I heard the guy’s name, but I don’t think we know much about him. But I certainly don’t think a Trump voter tried to kill him. I’m not sure where you heard that. But, again, I’m not even talking about – I mean, I’m not sure – Why that would come up when we’re talking about left wing and right wing. Unless I said, maybe I said someone on the left tried to kill Trump. I might have said that. I don’t remember if I did say that. But that would certainly be my assumption. That would certainly be my assumption. And I don’t think we know otherwise. There’s a lot of people with theories about that fellow who shot him. But he was shot dead himself conveniently. And his body disposed of quickly. And his social media concealed information. quickly so that we were not really allowed to find out very much about him, which is kind of the way that things go these days when there’s an attack on someone on the right. You know, the identity and philosophy of the shooter is often concealed. Anyway, I appreciate your call. Let’s see here. We’re going to talk next to Roberto from Kansas City, Missouri. Roberto, welcome.
SPEAKER 08 :
Hello, Steve, Greg. Thank you for having me. I wanted to say, number one, we love all your resources. It’s been very helpful and useful tools for us. Wonderful. But about the Charlie Kirk thing yesterday, there was a video, a short video you had on YouTube, and it lasted about like five minutes about how the – the trans community, the trans agenda, if you will, by the big ways in power, is demonic. And now that community is calling for so much more of what we saw yesterday with Charlie Kirk. Can you please explain to us why that agenda, the trans, the mutilation of children and everything like that, is actually demonic? And I’ll take your answer off the air. Thank you for your time, sir. Keep up the good work.
SPEAKER 01 :
Okay, Roberto, thanks for your call. Well, you know, we sometimes use the word demonic to simply mean it’s absolutely, you know, like what the devil would do. And sometimes we mean there are actual demons involved in inspiring the activity. Of course, we might underrate how much evil a man can do without influence from the devil. People are sinful, evil creatures themselves until they repent. I know people with or without the devil can be very evil. We can’t always know if some particular evil deed is inspired specifically by some kind of a demonic influence on the minds of those who are doing it. But I suspect that is so, especially when it comes to things that are exceedingly egregious, which common sense, even of unbelievers, typically would have condemned it. if they weren’t deluded. And when I say if they weren’t deluded, I mean like 20 years ago when nobody was deluded into thinking that a man could have a baby or that if a person just said they’re a woman, they are, even if they never were before. I mean, that kind of delusion never existed 20 years ago. In fact, I remember seeing a clip of Dennis Prager on the Bill Maher show, some years ago. I don’t remember how long ago. It wasn’t very long. And, you know, Dennis Prager was saying something about the trans agenda being crazy. And Bill Maher at that time, of course, he’s saying more conservative things these days. But at that time he was kind of saying to Dennis Prager, well, give me an example of, you know, something you think is crazy about the trans agenda. And Dennis Prager said, well, the idea that a man can become pregnant. Now, that idea, Dennis Prager was way ahead in his research than Bill Maher. Bill Maher and his audience had never heard of anyone saying such a crazy thing as that, and they laughed at Dennis Prager for suggesting that anyone would say that. It wasn’t a year or two after that, but it was a mainstream thing that you had to say. You had to say that a man could become pregnant or else you were going to be canceled. So this is how crazy it got. And I think such delusion, I think such insanity. Although I suppose people can be that stupid, I don’t think most people would be that stupid without some kind of a blinding effect from evil spirits. So I do believe that that kind of evil that destroyed the lives of so many children, and I know that you have to watch the right sources to know that this is true, because if you only watch mainstream news and stuff, you don’t even know that people’s lives have been ruined by this. You just think, oh, well, just people have the right to be what they want to be. And many people don’t even know how many trans people have come out publicly as young adults and saying, you know, this is the worst abuse that I was ever subjected to. And they’re trying to transition back because their parents, when they were minors, you know, encouraged them in a way that was destructive to them. And they, and it’s, you know, it’s a terrible life they’ve received. And actually, the highest number of suicides in the country are of trans people who have been transitioned within, usually it’s about 10 years after the transition. The suicide rate is very huge. It’s a very destructive, very life-denying, very life-destroying thing. And to do that to children, yeah, I mean, I don’t know how, I would have no qualms about saying that’s demonic behavior. We could just say it’s depravity of man doing that. But there’s more than just depravity. There’s stupidity, too, because there are people who aren’t otherwise extremely evil people. but who just stupidly went along with the agenda. So, I mean, there’s a great deal of deception involved in it. But, of course, I think that’s mostly gone. I think the nation has kind of awakened from that delusion for the most part, though there’s, of course, still some people in it. But I don’t think the nation is pursuing that delusion anymore like it was a few years ago. Anyway, yeah, I believe that’s a strong delusion. I think that comes from the devil. The devil is a liar and the father of lies. He’s also the murderer. You know, he was a murderer from the beginning, Jesus said. And so I think that, you know, any philosophy that kills people, makes them suicidal, deludes them, ruins their lives, you know, it’s not always directly and perhaps inspired by the devil. But I think in many cases it is. I think that’s one that has a very strong claim to being a doctrine of demons, as Paul referred to them. All right. Daniel in New Rochelle, New York. Hi.
SPEAKER 06 :
Hey, Steve. How are you?
SPEAKER 01 :
Good.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah. Yes, Steve. Yes. Yes. So today I’m going to talk about, you know, like I was sick for the past few days since last week. I was very sick. Yeah. I had nausea, vomiting, and, you know, a GERD, right? A GERD. And I had kidney stones. Yeah. But now I feel better. I healed, right? I got healed because I rested. Congratulations.
SPEAKER 01 :
Is this related to your question?
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, it is. Yeah, yeah. Okay, go ahead. Yeah, yeah. I’ve got healed, and I’ve also called a church. I’m here to the church of Latter-day Saints of Jesus Christ, right? You’re here to that church, right?
SPEAKER 01 :
You’re in the Latter-day Saints, you say?
SPEAKER 06 :
No, no, no, no, no. I’m asking you. Have I heard of it?
SPEAKER 01 :
Of course I’ve heard of it. Who hasn’t heard of it? Yeah, everyone’s heard of it. Yeah, but so what are you saying about it?
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, so I spoke to a missionary, and he prayed for me, so I got better. Good. But I want to ask you what my question is. Why is it like, you know, when I prayed for me to get healing, like when I was sick for a few days, I prayed to get better. You know, I didn’t get better. But when somebody else prayed for me, I healed. So why is it like that?
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, I’m not sure I know the answer to that. Some people get healed when they pray by themselves. Other people get healed when other people pray for them. Some people get healed when no one’s praying for them. They just get better. Yeah, the sickness can run its course. Maybe when you were praying, the sickness hadn’t run its course. Maybe later when the guy prayed for you, it had run its course. Most people get better from most sicknesses. Obviously, there are terminal illnesses that you don’t get better and chronic, but, you know, I mean, you didn’t tell me what kind of sickness you had, but every sickness I’ve ever had, I got better from it. And I got better whether someone prayed for me or not. Now, I’m not trying to disparage prayer for the sick. I’m just saying the facts, you know. Our theology has got to go along with the facts. The fact is, most people, you know, healthy country, have sicknesses that come and go, the flu, the cold, you know, headaches, you know, broken bones, and these things typically get better. And they typically do so with or without prayer. I do believe that God miraculously heals people when he wants to do it, and he will do it whether you’re praying alone like Hezekiah did. I mean, when Isaiah said to Hezekiah, The Lord says, you’re going to die from this sickness. You’re not going to get better. And Hezekiah prayed to the Lord, and God changed his prognosis and said, no, okay, you’re going to get better. You’re going to live another 15 years. Now, that was just one man praying for his own sickness. On the other hand, in the Bible, we sometimes have the apostles laying hands on people and praying for them, and they get better. sometimes from things they would never get better from otherwise, blindness, paralysis, things like that. I mean, those miraculous healings do happen. But, yeah, I don’t know enough about your sickness to know if it’s the kind of thing that you could have gotten better with or without prayer. But, you know, I just can’t tell you. I can’t tell you why it would work when someone else prays for you and not when you did it. But the answers could be numerous, numerous possibilities. All right, Daniel, I appreciate your call. I have a list of questions that was sent to me by a prisoner, and we try to get around to these. This particular prisoner writes frequently. His name is Cody, and he has lots of questions. So I have a list of them. I wanted to try to chip at them because we only have a few minutes left of the program. One of them is his first question is, is communicating with Mother Mary or other Catholic saints necromancy or communion with the dead? Now, what he’s referring to is the fact that necromancy means communication with the dead. It’s an occult practice. It’s what people try to do when they go to seances, for example, get in touch with dead people and communicate with them. That’s strongly forbidden in Scripture. That is, it’s the kind of thing that people in the Old Testament would be put to death for. It’s consorting with demons, basically. And so, you know, it’s absolutely inconsistent with being a Christian. Now, what he’s asking is, obviously, some people, Catholics, for example, they speak to Mary. They asked Mary to pray for them and stuff. And same thing with saints. But these people are dead. I mean, they have died. The Catholic will say, well, they’re not dead. They’re alive in heaven. Well, that’s no doubt true that they probably are alive in heaven. But the point is, forbidding to contact with the dead means if they have physically died, it’s not saying, oh, you can contact the dead who are in heaven. That’s okay. You know, talk to them. Now, talking to the dead is a general statement about people who have died. You don’t call them up. You don’t try to talk with them. So, you know, what about this? When Catholics talk to Mary or to the saints, these people have died and they’re talking to them. Well, I don’t believe in talking to Mary and the saints for the simple reason I don’t believe that they’re paying any attention to us. Mary… is not a goddess okay so she doesn’t have she’s not omniscient like God is that would be a divine trait that humans don’t have she’s not omniscient she’s not omnipresent now a gazillion Catholics in one moment are praying to her all over the world unless she’s a god there’s no way she can listen to all those prayers at the same time or any of them maybe or we don’t know that she listens to any of them the Bible does not describe saints in heaven as paying attention to what’s going on on earth and taking requests from people on earth. This is simply a tradition that the Roman Catholics adopted some centuries after the apostles died, and it seems to be one that’s not informed by biblical ideas. But is it necromancy? Is it the same thing as like going to a seance? Well, I don’t think so. I mean, it’s not exactly the same. Because necromancy usually is where you’re trying to get messages from the other side. You’re trying to get messages from people who’ve died, like Saul did when he went to the witch of Endor and called up Samuel. He wanted information from Samuel, and Samuel had died. And so he went to a medium and had her call up Samuel. Now, that’s what’s forbidden, and Saul was judged for that, died the next day because of that. So, you know, that’s something. But if you’re talking to this guy and you’re not expecting anyone to answer and you’re addressing statements to people who’ve died, Mary or the saints or someone like that, I think it’s just a mistake. I don’t think it’s necromancy because you’re not really expecting them to answer. You’re not expecting them to give you any information. You’re not trying to communicate back and forth with them. And I think that’s what seances and that’s what necromancy and stuff is, is trying to get information from the other side through these occult means. Yeah, Catholics aren’t trying to do that when they talk to Mary and the saints. I don’t believe Mary or the saints can hear them. And therefore, I think it’s a waste of energy. And it certainly seems strange to do so when you could talk to God instead. I mean, why would you talk to them when you can talk to God? Jesus said, when you pray, say, Our Father, which art in heaven. You address God himself. Why would you say, well? God, I’m not going to talk to you right now. I’m going to talk to your mom right now. I’m going to talk to this friend of yours over here, St. Patrick or someone. You know, no, we pray to God. And if we have the opportunity to pray to God, why would we pray to anyone else? It makes no sense to me at all. Of course, some Catholics have been taught to think, I’m not sure all of them do, but some have been taught to think that God’s pretty busy, you know. It’s almost like Mary’s not too busy. She can be everywhere listening to everyone, but God’s a little too busy for that kind of thing. So, you know, don’t bother God. Or God is not on your side so much, but he’s on Mary’s side. And Mary’s got more motherly compassion for you than God has. And therefore, you know, Mary’s sympathetic with you. And then she can take your request to God and get things from him that he might be reluctant to give you if you’re going yourself. I mean, all of this comes from total misapprehension of who God is. what Jesus taught about prayer and about God. Jesus said in John 16, in that day you’ll ask the Father in my name. And he says, I do not say that I will, you know, ask the Father for you, for the Father loves you, because you have believed that I came out from the Father. So, you know, you can talk to God yourself. That’s what Jesus made very clear. I’m out of time for the program today, so thanks for joining us. You’re listening to The Narrow Path. We are a listener-supported ministry. If you’d like to write to us, the address is The Narrow Path, P.O. Box 1730, Temecula, California, 92593. The website, you can donate from there if you want to, although everything there is free. The website is thenarrowpath.com. Thanks for joining us. Tune in again tomorrow. We’ll continue our conversation. God bless.
