Menu
Join us for a compelling discourse on Eastern Orthodoxy’s rising trend, and its many facets as Steve Gregg provides in-depth analysis of this ancient faith practice juxtaposed against modern Christianity. The episode also delves into the necessity of sacrificial practices from ancient times highlighting the narrative of faith through prophetic revelations. Steve also lends insight into the complex question of God’s succession plan for church leaders, tying together questions of leadership, accountability, and spiritual succession.
SPEAKER 08 :
Good afternoon, and welcome to the Narrow Path radio broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg, and we’re live for an hour each weekday afternoon, taking your calls if you have questions about the Bible or the Christian faith. I’d be glad to hear from you today. You can call in, and we’ll discuss that with you. If you see things differently than the host and you want to balance a comment, we’d be glad to hear from you also. The number is 844-484. 5737. That’s 844-484-5737. Just a few announcements, and we’ll get started with our callers. This day we have a couple of events in Southern California, as we do, generally speaking, the third Saturday of each month. And the first one is Saturday morning in Temecula. There’s a men’s Bible study. men’s Bible study in Temecula this Saturday morning, 8 o’clock. The second thing is the same evening in Buena Park. I’m going to be giving an overview of the whole Bible. In the past, and I’ve been surprised at this, but in the past, this subject has drawn the largest interest, the largest crowds of any subject I’ve ever talked about or that I’ve ever announced. So it’s an unusually, I guess, needed topic that people could just see the whole Bible in one overview. And so that’s going to be happening this Saturday night in Boyna Park at a little church there called the Way Fellowship, where we’ve been meeting on one Saturday a month for many, many years, I think about 12 years, something close to that anyway. So that’s this weekend. Men’s Bible study in the morning in Temecula and the overview of the whole Bible given that evening in Buena Park. I’ll also point out that I’m going to be in Oregon for about 12 days, an itinerary of 12 days. next month, beginning October 8th through October, I think, 20th. And that being so, many of our Oregon listeners will have opportunity, if they wish, to come out and join us for some of those events. If you want to do so, you can, as with the other things coming up this weekend, anytime we have events, they are listed at our website. And you go to thenarrowpath.com and you find very easily the tab that says Announcements, and that’s where all planned events are listed. And I just want to say this, too, that in November, not very long after my return from Oregon, I’m going to be debating Dr. Michael Brown. We’re planning to get three debates on one weekend, Friday, November 7th, one evening debate, and then the next day, Saturday, November 8th, a couple of debates that day on various subjects related to Israel and Zionism and that kind of thing, what the Bible says about those things. So Dr. Brown and I will be debating in November that you might want to look on our website. I don’t think we have the specifics there yet because he has not gotten back with me with all the specifics, but we’re going to post those too, so be watching our announcements at the website. All right. I have no more announcements to make, I think, so we’ll go to our phone lines, and we’ll talk to Jeff in Laguna Beach, California. Hi, Jeff. Welcome.
SPEAKER 07 :
Hey. Hi, Steve. Thank you for your years of insight, and I have a question about demonic powers. A few years ago, I actually paid a woman $50 because someone I work with told me from a credible source how she has the ability to to touch base with people in your past that have deceased. I regret doing this now, by the way. But she surprisingly not only was accurate, she picked a friend of mine who passed a year ago from that time who was a strong Christian man and used phrases that he told me he wants you to know, and she repeated things no one else would know. And it made me cry. I later talked about it with a friend, and we thought, what’s the harm in this? But we then decided, and I want to get your take on this, please, that the harm in it is that although they may have that power, by being led into that, we’re being distracted from who has the real power. Is that anything you can shed light on?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, I think I probably can. I mean, the Bible definitely says there are two sources of supernatural power and revelation. One of those is God. who reveals things sometimes through dreams or visions or through angels or simply through his recorded word. And the other source of supernatural knowledge is on the demonic side. And the Bible forbids, both in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, strongly forbids Israel to get involved in any of the occult, which includes consulting the dead. It includes magic. It includes witchcraft. It includes divination. astrology, those kinds of things. So those are alternative, and we might say counterfeit, means by which people seek supernatural power or information. Now, you know, the Bible doesn’t tell us why we should not do it that way. God simply says don’t consult them. And yet there is some suggestion that the reason we’re not supposed to consult them is because they are demonic beings. And because they may, in fact, give demons an inroad into our lives. Now, the Bible doesn’t directly speak of a cause and effect relationship between doing something occultic and becoming demon-possessed. However, it is often the case that people who have demons also have psychic powers and so forth, which kind of kind of feeds the notion that this is why. Because these things are demonic, we shouldn’t be involved with them. Now, we say, for example, in Acts chapter 16, there was a woman who could tell fortunes, and we’re told that she had a spirit of python, is what it says in the Greek. King James says a spirit of divination. And as soon as the demon was cast out of her, she couldn’t do it anymore. And that got Paul in trouble, because Paul cast out the demon, and she was a slave girl, and her owner could no longer make money from her fortune telling, so he got angry at him. But there’s other cases also of, you know, where that kind of thing, we know that the woman who brought up Samuel in something like a seance for Saul, we’re told that she had a familiar spirit, which is another way of saying a demon. And so it looks like, you know, in many occasions, the Bible directly connects the occult with demon possession. So, clearly, that probably is the reason that God tells Israel to stay away from that stuff. Don’t get involved in that at all. Now, I know a lot of anecdotal information, too, that’s not in the Bible because it’s some more modern cases that the Bible, of course, doesn’t talk about modern cases. But there are people I know who’ve had a great deal more experience than I have in dealing with demon-possessed people who have indicated that these people just prior to becoming possessed, had been involved in going to seances, talking to mediums and trying to contact the dead. The movie The Exorcist, a sensationalistic movie that was made back in the 60s, was based on a true story, although in the movie it was a girl who was possessed. In the real story, it was a 14-year-old boy And I’ve read his story. I’ve read the true story about that. And his possession began after he and his grandmother started doing some kind of art. I don’t remember if they were using tarot cards or, you know, the I Ching or, you know, Ouija boards or something. They started doing something like that. And then demons began to manifest, and this kid was totally possessed, terrifyingly possessed, until he was delivered. And that was a long process. And I won’t go into more detail, but I’ve read of more cases than I could recall of people getting involved in the occult and then afterwards becoming demon-possessed. Now, it is my opinion that… that not everybody who becomes involved in the occult becomes demon-possessed. There’s, you know, millions of people have become involved in the occult, and I don’t believe that all of them are demon-possessed. I believe there’s a certain kind of personality is more vulnerable to possession, whether they get involved in those things or not. And I don’t understand, you know, why one person becomes possessed and another does not. But this kind of activity, asking someone to contact your friend who’s died is definitely off the table for Christians. You’re not allowed to do that. But your friend, or allegedly your friend, spoke to this woman, and she passed along information that was very distinctive of your friend’s way of speaking, sort of like in the movie Ghost, where he sent the message ditto, which was a common thing he and his girlfriend had always said. And then she knew it was really him talking through Whoopi Goldberg. And by the way, it may be that demons may still speak through Whoopi Goldberg. I’m not sure. But in any case, demons often do know things that humans don’t know. And some have suggested that the reason that the Bible refers to certain demons as familiar spirits. And I don’t know that they’re right about this. But we do know the Bible does use that term. But some think the reason is because the demon is familiar with the person that you’re trying to contact and can mimic them and can impersonate them.
SPEAKER 07 :
Exactly. That’s how it felt.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 07 :
And it felt benign and harmless at the time, but it obviously was in the arena of the occult.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you regret it now. You haven’t, I assume, had particular demonic afflictions since that time. It was some years ago, right? Yeah, so, I mean, you may have dodged a bullet there, but, yeah, don’t do that anymore.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, no, well said. That’s very – thank you for that insight and unpacking that. I appreciate it.
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay, Jeff, good talking to you, man.
SPEAKER 07 :
You too, always. Bye-bye.
SPEAKER 08 :
Bye now. Brian from Longview, Washington is next. Brian, welcome.
SPEAKER 06 :
Hi, Steve. How are you doing? Good, thanks. So I’m going to paraphrase real quick something that I’ve heard you talk about in the past, so forgive me if I don’t get it quite right. Obviously, feel free to correct it. But you mentioned that Israel can speak of everyone who truly belongs to God in the context of speaking against dispensational theology. Do you think an argument for this can be made that includes the accounts of the Syrophoenician woman and the centurion in conjunction? with Jesus’ statement about sheep that are not known in John 10. In essence, do you think that perhaps Jesus recognized these two individuals as belonging to Israel or that they would belong to Israel in a sense, like he saw their faith?
SPEAKER 08 :
Right. Well, I think we could say they… I’m sorry, I got too far from the microphone. I think we could say they belonged to Israel in the sense that matters to God. They were not… For example… When Jesus said, I have other sheep you don’t know about, I’m going to bring them too, he is talking about the future influx of Gentiles into the one flock. Now, Israel was God’s flock in the Old Testament, God’s fold. And Jesus said, I’m going to go get Gentiles, I’m going to bring them back, and we’ll have one fold, and not two. God doesn’t have a group of Gentile believers and a group of Jewish believers, two flocks. He said, no, there will be one flock and one shepherd. So when the Gentiles come into the flock that was called Israel, under the shepherd, the Messiah of Israel, those Gentiles become part of that Israel. They’re part of the same flock. Now, the Syrophoenician woman, it’s interesting because she was begging for Jesus to assist with her demon-possessed daughter, who was not present but was apparently back home in the Gentile country in Syria where she came from. And Jesus said, I’m not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. But then when she prevailed on him, he said, Oh, woman, great is your faith. Be it unto you according to your request. Which is interesting because he said he’s not sent to anyone except the lost sheep of Israel. And yet he gave her her request because her faith was great. Now, Paul indicates that in Galatians 3, that all who have the faith of Abraham are Abraham’s children and heirs of the promise. So Paul does identify Abraham’s true seed. as anyone who has the faith of Abraham. And so we might say that the Syrophoenician woman, in exhibiting that faith, exhibited herself to be part of the true Israel, and that’s why Jesus helped her, because he was only sent to Israel. Now there’s another notable case of a Gentile having great faith, and that’s in Matthew 8, where the centurion came to Jesus asking him to heal, again, his absentee servant who was sick. And the conversation between Jesus and him caused Jesus to say, I’ve not found this much faith, not in Israel. In other words, this man had more faith than the Jews that Jesus had encountered. And he gave him his request based on his faith. So It does seem like these early examples of Gentiles showing exceptional faith, like Abraham’s faith, impressed Jesus enough to treat them as if they were part of Israel, even though he had only been sent to the lost sheep of Israel at the time. So, yeah, I think those are good illustrations. Now, what they come short of, all those illustrations fall short of Jesus actually saying these Gentiles are Israel. But in view of the fact that Paul says… that Jews and Gentiles who have the faith of Abraham are the children of Abraham. And in Romans 2, verse 29, he indicates that Jews or Gentiles who have faith are true Jews and true circumcised. And he says in Philippians 3.3 that his audience, who were Gentile Christians, are the true circumcision. That would be the same as the true Israel or the true Jews. They’re the true circumcision. So, I mean, these expressions are used of Gentile believers. They’re called children of Abraham. They’re called heirs of the Abrahamic promise in Galatians 3.29. They’re called Jews. They’re called circumcision believers. I believe in Galatians 6.16, Paul refers to them as the Israel of God. Some dispute that he’s talking about that, but I think the evidence is strong that he calls the believing Gentiles the Israel of God, along with the believing Jews. I mean, in Jesus, there’s no Jew or Gentile. That’s one thing Paul says plainly in Galatians 3.27, 28. And so, you know, the distinction between Jew and Gentile is it vanishes when you’re in Christ. But Jews and Gentiles who become Christians, who come into Christ, are the Israel of God. So, I mean, there’s a lot in the Bible to tell us this particular doctrine is true. The examples you gave, I think, are good examples. They don’t come right out and say it in so many words as a dispensationalist would be forced to agree with. But I think you’re correct, whether they would be forced to agree with you or not.
SPEAKER 06 :
Great. Thanks, Steve. I appreciate your answer.
SPEAKER 08 :
All right. Thank you for your call. From Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Jim, welcome to The Narrow Path.
SPEAKER 05 :
Hi, Steve. Thanks for taking my call. Can you tell me, when did in the Old Testament or whatever, when did God start requesting blood sacrifices?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, we don’t read of God requesting it as early as it was actually practiced, but we can assume that it was practiced because he requested it. For example, Abel, we find, brought a lamb for a sacrifice. Now, we don’t have any evidence that God had commanded, at least it’s not in the written record, that God had commanded an animal sacrifice to be offered. But it differed from Cain’s sacrifice. Maybe in more than one way, but certainly one way it differed was that Cain brought plants that didn’t have any blood. There’s some other differences between Cain and Abel’s sacrifices, but this is certainly one of them. Now, the question is, how did Abel even know that God would want him to bring a lamb instead of vegetables or plant life as sacrifice? As his brother brought. And I, you know, I think the answer to that might be found in this passage in Luke chapter 11. Where, excuse me, verse 50, Luke 11, 50. Jesus said that the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation. From the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah. Now, he said the blood of all the prophets from Abel to Zechariah would be required of that generation. Now, that means that he saw Abel as the first of the prophets and Zechariah perhaps one of the last of them. But the point here is if Abel was a prophet, as Jesus said, then a prophet is somebody who speaks for God by inspiration. Now, we don’t have any record of anything Abel ever said at all. So we don’t have a record of his prophecies. But the Bible says in Romans, faith comes by hearing and hearing by God. That’s from Romans 10. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Now, in Hebrews 11, it says that by faith, Abel offered the more excellent sacrifice than Cain. So Abel offered the sacrifice he did. We’re told by faith. But faith comes by hearing the word of God. So Abel, in order to have faith, must have had something to believe in. God must have revealed it. He must have received a word from the Lord that this was necessary. And he obeyed it. He probably prophesied it to his whole family. But Cain didn’t obey it. And Abel did. And so Cain, you know, not listening to the prophet of God, not listening to the word of God from his brother, shows himself to be a faithless man and disobedient. So that would be, you know, if you say, when did God first tell people to offer blood sacrifices? We’re not really sure. We do know, of course, that Noah and Abraham, long before the law was given by Moses, they all offered blood sacrifices. And then, of course, once you get to Leviticus, there’s lots of references to blood sacrifices that had to be offered. So one could argue the clearest instructions about it that we have on record are in the law, after the Exodus. But the fact that the patriarchs, and even going back to Abel and Noah, people were offering blood sacrifices, the obedient people were, suggests that God had revealed that in some instance that we don’t have on record. But we do know there were prophets going all the way back to the generation after Adam and Eve, Abel being one of them. And then we find Abel doing that, offering a blood sacrifice. My guess, it’s an educated guess, but I could be wrong, is that that was the first person to whom this had been revealed. And that would answer your question, I think. Thank you for your call. We have another Jim calling from Sacramento, California. And we’re going to talk to him, but we have a break coming up. And after break, we have another half hour, and we have some lines open. If you want to get in line to be on the program in the second half hour, call 844-484. 844-484-5737. I’ll give that number again. It’s 844-484-5737. Jim from Sacramento, welcome.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yes, and can you hold me to the break because I’m looking at my clock. It looks like you’re going to be very close to the break.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, it depends on how long it takes to answer, but I hope it won’t take long for you to ask. Go ahead.
SPEAKER 11 :
Okay. My question is this. When you have somebody such as Charlie Kirk taken out of the picture, does God provide, in the case of his widow, for a replacement for that person?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, often, yeah, often he does. You know, it’s hard to know because there’s always another generation of leaders. Every generation of leaders dies. And somewhere along the line, other leaders arise. Now, whether we ask, are these new leaders being sent to replace the old ones? I guess we could say the answer is yes, since, I mean, we can’t say that any particular new leader dies. is particularly a replacement to some old leader that we’ve lost because, I mean, not like, say, Joshua who replaced Moses or Elisha who replaced Elijah, or for that matter, the apostles who stepped into the role of leading the church when Jesus was gone. You know, these are instances where specific leaders are removed and specific others are assigned to their place. Now, of course, the Roman Catholic Church believes that there’s a thing called apostolic succession. So they believe that when the apostles died, there were leaders that were, you know, sat on their seats and in their authority and were their replacement and who have the same status and authority that the apostles had because they were specifically there to replace them, to succeed them. And then when those leaders died, the Catholic Church believes, the next generation were in exactly the same position and held that same authority. I don’t accept that doctrine. I don’t accept the doctrine of apostolic succession. But I can’t say that when one particular leader dies, God doesn’t have in mind another particular person to fill his role. It would be also possible to see it otherwise, namely that when anyone dies, they have served their term. They have done what God wants. they served their generation faithfully, and now they’re going to their reward, and now there’s going to be something new done by other people. Now, I do believe Charlie Kirk, his work will continue. I don’t think Charlie Kirk has really been taken out. He’s died, but I believe his voice will be around for a long time, if only because of YouTube, but also because of the organization he started, where I think a lot of people are going to rise up to try to certainly fill his position in the organization, but whether they will have the impact that he did or not, that, that depends fully on God, you know, God, God’s anointing. So, um, I can’t predict, and I wouldn’t say that there’s a predictable, um, policy that God has, that every time a significant leader dies, uh, God has a specific person to, to shove into his place to occupy the same position. Um, Sometimes that is so. But it’s not necessarily a principle that the Bible teaches will always happen. We only know of specific cases. Anyway, Jim, that’s a good question. And I hope that’s a good enough answer because we’ve got to take our break now. And it’s good to hear from you again today. God bless. We’ve got a break coming up, but we’re not done. We have another half hour coming, so don’t go away. You’re listening to The Narrow Path, which is… a listener-supported ministry. If you’d like to help us pay the radio bills, you can write to us at The Narrow Path, P.O. Box 1730, Temecula, California, 92593. You can also donate from the website. The website is thenarrowpath.com. Now, there’s tons of resources, all of them free at thenarrowpath.com. You can also donate there. I’ll be back in 30 seconds. Don’t go away.
SPEAKER 01 :
Small is the gate and narrow is the path that leads to life. Welcome to The Narrow Path with Steve Gregg. Steve has nothing to sell you today but everything to give you. When the radio show is over, go to thenarrowpath.com where you can study, learn, and enjoy with free topical audio teachings, blog articles, verse-by-verse teachings, and archives of all The Narrow Path radio shows. We thank you for supporting the listeners supported Narrow Path with Steve Gregg. See you at thenarrowpath.com.
SPEAKER 08 :
Welcome back to the Narrow Path radio broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg, and we’re live for another half hour. We’ve got some lines open for you if you want to get through, if you have questions about the Bible or the Christian faith. Or are you different from the host and want to say why? Feel free to give me a call. Here’s the number. And if you strike now, the iron is hot. There’s several positions on our switchboard if you want to call now. 844-484-5737. I’ll do it again. 844-484-5737. All right, our next caller is Jeremy from Stevens Point, Wisconsin. Hi, Jeremy. Welcome.
SPEAKER 10 :
Hi, Steve. Good to talk to you.
SPEAKER 08 :
Good to hear from you.
SPEAKER 10 :
I just had a question about Eastern Orthodoxy. It’s kind of just come onto the scene pretty intensely the last five years. And every time I bring it up, most people just have no idea what I’m talking about. But it’s pretty much won over everyone under 30. And even today, I wasn’t even going to call in, but this guy had just came out. He was an apologist against it, and he just joined it. And it’s just, I just kind of want to know your thoughts on it. I have to admit, I’ve been very tempted to walk into those churches myself, but I’ve got some hang-ups, like their Sabbath Ecumenical Council I just don’t agree with.
SPEAKER 08 :
Anyway, I just kind of want to know your thoughts. Could you tell me the name of the apologist who just converted to it?
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah, his name was Cleave to Antiquity.
SPEAKER 08 :
Oh, that’s Cleave to Antiquity, so that’s a screen name.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah, I’m sorry, I don’t remember his real name. He just uploaded that video like three hours ago. I was waiting for him to be like, psych, but then he didn’t. I was kind of shocked, actually.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, okay, let me talk about that. Of course, Eastern Orthodoxy has been around, they would say they’ve been around since the Apostles. They they are rivals of the Roman Catholic Church for that claim. The Roman Catholic Church believes that they are the church that goes back to the Apostles, and the Eastern Orthodox Church believes they are. Now, historically, what happened is, of course, the Eastern churches broke off from the Western church around 1050 A.D., so about half the way back from here to the Apostles is where this split took place. Now, They did disagree with the Catholic Church on a number of things. And I will say on the things they disagreed on, at least some of them, if I were living at that time, I’d side with them. I would side with them against the Roman Catholic Church and those things. But it’s sort of like Luther. Luther, where he disagreed with the Catholic Church, I tend to agree with him more than them, obviously. But he didn’t break away from everything Catholic. I mean, his view of… His view of the Eucharist, his view of baptism and so forth, he just took almost without changing it into his movement from the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox also retained a lot of Catholic stuff that I wouldn’t agree with. I think they finally split over the matter of icons, at least was one of the things they did. Icons are flat boards with pictures of saints on them. painted on them whereas the Catholic Church had three-dimensional statues of saints and it’s an amazing thing that they were so contentious over this that they called each other heretics the Eastern Orthodox think the Catholics are heretical for having statues and Catholics think the Orthodox are heretical for having these icons but as far as I’m concerned there’s not dimes worth of difference between them Because God said, don’t make any graven images of anything on earth or in heaven or on the earth, and don’t bow down to them. And, of course, they do. They do those things. Now, they would say they don’t worship them. They say they venerate them. So, I mean, I’ll let them use language however they want to. But my question is, what would you do differently if you were worshiping them? I mean, the way they venerate them is the very same actions. Maybe a different attitude. I don’t know. But the very same actions that pagans use in venerating their idols. Only when pagans do it, it’s called worship. When Catholics or Orthodox do it, they just call it venerating. But it sounds like it’s a distinction without a difference, or if there’s a difference. It’s not evident to anyone looking on.
SPEAKER 10 :
I mean, it’s like right out of Judges, what is it, 18, where Dan sets up their new priesthood. Am I remembering that right?
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER 10 :
It’s very, very similar in a lot of ways.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, I would say there are some things that Eastern Orthodox believe that I think are insightful vis-a-vis the Catholic view. So, I mean, if I had no choice but to either be Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox, I would have to choose with the Orthodox. But both groups, I would disagree on something very important, and that is They institutionalize Christianity. The very fact that they have this apostolic succession idea, that they think the organization or the institutional religion that thinks they can trace their origins back to the apostles, they both claim to be that organization, and they both claim to be the true church. And what defines them in many respects is the church creeds. the ecumenical councils, you know. The Nicene Council is recognized as the first post-apostolic council of the church. And there’s been, you know, a bunch of them that the Catholic Church follows. The Eastern Orthodox only follows the first seven of them. But the point is, they define Orthodox Christianity, both groups do, as, you know, agreeing with creeds. Now, Jesus never defined his movement as, you know, agreeing with particular creeds, but rather loving one another, following him, submitting to his lordship in their lives and being obedient to him in their lives so that their family life, their work life, their marriages, their economic life, their entertainment life, every aspect of life is submitted to obedience to Christ, that every thought is subjected to Christ and to obedience to him. That’s what Christianity is. And, you know, what has happened after the persecution of the church ended, the Roman persecutions, which occupied the second and third centuries, in the early fourth century, the persecutions ended, at least the official Roman persecutions did, and the church became comfortable enough to start paying attention to how many things they disagreed about. And by things, I mean philosophical things, theological concepts, and things like that. Now, before that time, Christians disagreed on these theological concepts, but they all agreed that they have to obey Jesus, and they all agreed that they have to love each other and things like that. But when they stopped being persecuted, they had the luxury of starting to get a little ornery about people who disagreed with them on abstract subjects, which Jesus never made issues of. In most cases, the disciples didn’t either. And so we have the church changing, especially in the early 4th century, into a church based on agreement about certain abstract concepts. Now, I’m not saying there aren’t abstract concepts in Christian theology. There are. But Christ never made it. He never defined his followers as those who agree with any particular abstract concepts. but rather those who love one another, those who obey his commandments. He said, if you continue in my words, you are my disciples indeed. He said, go and make disciples, teaching them to observe all things I’ve commanded you. Well, both the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church have a whole bunch of stuff in them that Jesus never commanded or said. But they assume, well, you know, the church grows, it develops. Well, others would look on and say, well, the church, it may in fact grow and develop. It also corrupts. It also takes on pollutions from human traditions and things like that. They would say the Apostolic Church was an infant church, and only in the later centuries did the developments of the bishops and so forth come up with the other things that they had to dispute among themselves in the councils and make creeds about. Well, okay, but to me, as I read church history, I see those creeds and I see those councils as dividing the body of Christ and defining true orthodoxy in terms of whether you agree about these abstract subjects when Jesus defined it as whether you lay your life down for your brother, which is a very different kind of set of criteria. Anyway, I’m not saying that Catholics and Eastern Orthodox don’t lay down their lives for their brothers. Some of them do, just like some Protestants do. But whether you’re Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, it doesn’t matter. If you’re laying down your life for your brother and you love Jesus with all your heart and you’re being obedient to him, that’s what makes you part of the true church. The true church is not an organization with a hierarchy. What it is is the head of every man is Christ. And the church is his body. So if I’m a member of Christ’s body, that means I’m submitting to the head. He’s my head. There’s not a priest or a patriarch or a pope that’s my head. Or a bishop. Christ is my head. The head of every man is Christ, in Paul’s opinion. And I agree with Paul. And when suddenly human authorities were set up, and this began to happen way before the 4th century. This happened in the writings of Ignatius. In the early 2nd century, he began to talk about the bishops and all the authority they have and everyone has to submit to the bishop and so forth. It went way beyond anything the apostles or Jesus said. In fact, it went against it because Jesus said to the apostles, the rulers of the Gentiles exercise authority over them. It shall not be done that way by you, he said. Whoever would be chief among you must be the slave of all. So the real leaders of the church are those who serve the church, not those who have top-down authoritative control over the church. That top-down authoritative control Jesus identified as the way the rulers of the Gentiles do things. And every institutional church, I don’t care if it’s Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant, every institutional church that has top-down authority from one man to another man to another man to an organization, that’s, in my opinion, violating what Jesus said. And while that doesn’t make me condemn the people who are in these churches, it makes the organizations themselves seem to be defective and not the true church. So I think that one reason a lot of people are joining the Orthodox Church – and you’re right, in the last several years, lots of evangelicals have gone that way. One of my former students has become a very adamant Orthodox believer and advocate – You know, I think it’s because they think differently than I do, obviously. They think the church is an organization, and they have to look for which of these many organizations that call themselves the church, which is the true church. And they want to join the church organization that can trace its roots back to the apostles. But Paul… never indicated that he as an apostle was going to perpetuate his authority in the church through successors. He told Timothy, Timothy, the things you’ve heard me teach in the presence of my witnesses, you teach those to other faithful men who will in turn teach others. In other words, Paul’s authority after his death would be perpetuated by his teachings being faithfully taught successively, not by people holding the apostolic office. You know, there’s no officers here. that are like the apostles. But there is the word of the apostles, and we have that in our New Testament, and that’s what we follow, and that’s what we submit to. At least that’s what I do, and I think that’s the way to be obedient to Christ.
SPEAKER 10 :
I really appreciate you discussing all that. That was a great answer. Thanks, Steve. God bless, man.
SPEAKER 08 :
Jeremy, thanks for your call. God bless you. All right, let’s talk to Laura from Victoria, British Columbia. Hi, Laura, welcome.
SPEAKER 03 :
Hi, Steve, thank you for taking my call. I’m a bit worried my phone’s going to die. I’ve got two questions. May I ask them both and then take the rest off on the radio?
SPEAKER 08 :
That’s fine. Okay, thank you.
SPEAKER 03 :
The first one goes back to the earlier discussion on the blood sacrifice, and I’m going to be misquoting. Sorry, I’m driving. Could it be that when Adam and Eve sinned, I believe that, and I don’t know who it was that killed the animals to cover their sin that was the first death in the Garden of Eden, could that be where it stems from? Because obviously not everything was documented. That was my first question. My second question, is there a resource anywhere that ties together like cool biblical connections for people who don’t speak Hebrew or Aramaic or Greek? Like, for example… I think one of Jesus’ names was the bread of life, and he was born in Bethlehem, or the house of bread. So all those cool little connections that people who don’t speak those other languages could miss out on the beauty of some of the words. So those were the questions I had. May God shine his face on you, and thank you again for taking my call.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, thank you for your call, and I’m glad you got that up before your phone died. All right. As far as the… the blood sacrifice that God made to cover Adam and Eve’s sin with the skins of animals, that would, of course, be the first instance of a blood sacrifice. The caller had asked me when the first command was given to do that. Now, I almost had brought up God doing it first, but that’s not what the caller was asking. But we could say that when God did command it, or when men began to understand the need to do it, they had at least God’s actions in the Garden of Eden as a precedent for that, because God had slain at least two animals and gave their skins to Adam and Eve to cover their sins or their guilt. So that’s the first blood sacrifice, which God himself made for their sake. But as I said, I think the first time we read of people doing that was of Abel. And since he was a prophet, he probably had received revelation from God about the need to do so, because we don’t read Even after Adam and Eve sinned, we don’t read of God commanding them in the garden to offer animal sacrifices, but he must have told their children to do so. Yeah, thanks for bringing that up. As far as the word plays in the Bible, you know, Jesus is the bread of life. Bethlehem literally means the house of bread, and Jesus was born in Bethlehem. And therefore, that’s an interesting play on words. You’re saying, but what if someone doesn’t know Hebrew or doesn’t know the language to know what Bethlehem means? What if we never knew that Bethlehem means the house of bread? Well, that wouldn’t prevent us from knowing that Jesus said he was the bread of life because we have that recorded separately. But some of these linguistic things are, they provide a, you know, they enrich us. I mean, they enrich our knowledge. And that’s why it is sometimes interesting helpful to study the original languages because you will discover that kind of thing from time to time. I’ll agree with you that people who don’t hear these things or know these things are missing out on that information. I don’t know if they’re missing out on anything they need in order to be good Christians, but there’s lots of things we don’t need in order to be good Christians that are interesting. And certainly the example you gave is one of many things that one who knows the original languages would notice and which others would not. That’s why it’s good to have lexicons and things like that and commentaries that might bring those things out. Thank you for your call. Let’s talk to Lance from Atlanta, Georgia. Hi, Lance. Welcome.
SPEAKER 02 :
Hey, Steve. Thanks for taking my call. Curious to know, long story short, coming out of Calvinism, it gave me a higher appreciation for the body of Christ, the church. Are there any spiritual blessings there? that come with salvation that would apply specifically to the body of Christ and not to individuals. Just kind of having, knowing that Paul is writing his letters to churches, a group of people, any spiritual blessings that are kind of just for the body of Christ? Or would you say all spiritual blessings are for the body of Christ and that applies to individuals as well?
SPEAKER 08 :
Yes. Well, when we think of individual Christians and their privileges, we have to say we have these privileges in Christ. That’s what Paul says so frequently, especially in the first two chapters of Ephesians. He’s continually using the expression, in Christ, in Christ, in Christ. You know, in Christ we’re seated in the heavenly places. In Christ we are blessed with all spiritual blessings in the heavenly places. In Christ we are accepted. In him we are elect. and so forth. So all the special blessings that Christians have come to us as a result of being in Christ. And when Paul says in Christ, he’s thinking of Christ corporately, not just the man Jesus Christ, but Christ now is the head of a corporate body. And we are members of his body. We are of his flesh and his bones. These are the kind of things Paul says in various places. We’re members of Christ. just like your arms and legs are members of you. So being in Christ means we are, you know, all of us are one in him, as Paul says elsewhere. So all the blessings that come to us are as a result of being in Christ, that is, in the body of Christ, which is another way of saying in the church. The problem is that what we call the church popularly usually is some kind of a 501c3 organization or, or a building with some kind of a name over it, such and such church, or some religious organization that conducts worship meetings to Christ, and so forth. Now, that’s not what the Bible calls the church, although I’m not saying none of those things I just described are in the church. All those might be in the church, but the church is not those things. The church is the body of Christ. And therefore, the blessings that are conferred on the church are those that we experience as individuals. I don’t know that we have blessings as individuals that don’t belong to the whole church, if that’s what you’re asking. Or that the church has blessings that we don’t all have. Though, of course, in the church, there are different… God dishes out different gifts and different responsibilities and different, maybe… Privileges in a sense, that is to say, if it’s a privilege to be a missionary. Well, not everyone’s called that. So, you know, that would be an individual kind of a blessing. But it’s because the church is a missionary church, and some people are called to do various things in the mission of the church, and some would be to go to other countries, some not. So everyone’s got different privileges. and I’m sure there’s special blessings associated with every assignment, but these would be individual vocational things, not the transcendent blessings that are ours in Christ, which are ours because we are in his body, in the church. I hope that answers your question. Let’s talk to Mike from Kent, Washington. Mike, welcome.
SPEAKER 04 :
Hi, Steve. Hi. My question is about Satan and demons. And I come from Lubbock Christian College, Harding Christian, Churches of Christ. That’s basic Bible doctrine. I’ve been a Christian for 50 years. And I was a paramedic for 15 years. Now I’m an ER doc. A lot of things in my subconscious, which they tell us our subconscious unwinds. But my question is, I’ve been told that Satan can’t read our mind unless we speak out loud. I don’t know. And then the second thing is I can’t understand why I read the Bible before I go to sleep. I meditate on the Word. I know the Holy Spirit is indwelling in me. Yet I have all these horrible thoughts every morning I wake up. I have to kind of put everything back in the hole and pray and get myself back together. Could you shed some light on that, please?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, those are two sides of one issue, and that is what effect does Satan have or what access does he have to our minds? Can he read our minds? Can he put things into our minds? I would say the Bible does not discuss whether he can read our minds or not. I wouldn’t be surprised if he could, at least in some cases. But even if he can’t read our minds, for example, like God can. God knows what we’re thinking all the time. Perhaps Satan doesn’t know our minds in the same sense that God does, but maybe in the same sense that people who know us really well, most of the time, I mean, many times they know what we’re thinking. If you live with your wife for many, many years, well, she probably expects you to read her mind. But you have to learn how to… You know, know what she’s thinking. And you probably can a lot of the time. And she probably knows what you’re thinking a lot of the time. And part of that’s because of many conversations and observations of each other’s lives. And you’ve seen her react to different stimuli. And then when those stimuli come again, you figure what she’s thinking about is probably what she said about it before. And, you know, Satan can definitely observe us enough to probably know what we’re thinking a great deal. And also if he adds things to our minds, if he makes suggestions, then he knows they are there at that moment at least. So he knows we’re thinking about those. Now, can Satan put things into our mind? Well, yeah, anyone can do that. Any person on the street can put something into your mind by saying something that you hear, and then it’s in your mind. You know, they can’t make you think about it, or they can’t make you believe it, or they can’t make you obey it, but they can say things that suddenly, once they go in your ears, they’re in your head. You can put them out of your head, maybe, or if you can’t right away, You can at least pay them no mind, you know, not give them any credence. But, you know, the fact that anyone can put something into your head by simply suggesting it to you would make it not a special power of Satan for him to be able to put things in our heads too, although he doesn’t speak them audibly in our ears. I do think that since demons are seen to mess with people’s minds, especially demon-possessed people’s minds, or to tempt us. Satan’s called the tempter. Well, he seeks to get us to do what’s wrong. Many times, I believe it’s by putting things in our minds. Well, okay, so we know he has some access to our minds in that sense. But, you know, when you wake up in the morning, you’ve got all kinds of demonic thoughts coming to your head. You don’t have to own those. You know, if somebody says something, wicked things in your presence or uses blasphemous language in your presence, that feels defiling for you even to hear that. It makes you feel defiled. But you’re not really defiled if you are resisting that. If that’s something you say, well, I don’t agree with that. I hate that. I hate that kind of talk. You know, it’s in your head, but it’s not yours. You didn’t originate it, and you don’t approve of it. And you’re not responsible for it. So if you’re walking down the street and some guy walking down the street is just cursing God and blaspheming and things like that, and you hear him, and you feel, oh, yuck, that feels defiling. I wish I had not heard that. Well, you did hear it, and it entered your ear and entered your mind, but it’s not yours. It was his. You don’t own it. And so I think it’s that way when the devil puts things in our minds. If the devil puts awful things in our minds… That becomes a temptation to us or a test. Will we embrace it or will we reject it? As we reject it and hate it, we pass the test and it’s not ours. It never was ours. We never embraced it. As soon as we embrace it and want to think about that and want to enjoy the thought or act on it, well, then it is ours. Then we are responsible. That’s when Jesus said, whoever looks at a woman to lust after her, he’s committed adultery in his heart. Not whoever looks at a woman and happens to feel lust. That’s a temptation. But if a man looks at a woman to lust after her, he’s welcoming that. And that’s the difference between being tempted and being guilty of sin. Hey, I’m out of time. Sorry to say, you’ve been listening to The Narrow Path. Our website is thenarrowpath.com. Thanks for joining us. Let’s talk again tomorrow. God bless.
