Join us in this insightful episode of The Narrow Path as Steve Gregg delves into a variety of thought-provoking topics. We begin with a lively discussion about Galatians 3:29, examining whether Christians are now considered the new Israel and the implications of being children of the promise. Steve talks about whether or not Christians are barred from drinking alcohol, and he examines several doctrines, holding fast to unity, despite differing details.
Tackling complex theological questions, Steve sheds light on how faith and deeds intersect in the Christian journey.
SPEAKER 02 :
Good afternoon and welcome to the Narrow Path Radio Broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg and we’re live for an hour today as every weekday. Well, I say every weekday. Once in a while there’s an occasion where I have to be away from the microphone, but that’s not very often. We are live today as we are Monday through Friday generally for an hour, commercial free, so that you can call in and we can talk to you about the questions you may want to raise about the Bible or the Christian faith, things that are bugging you, problems you have in reading the Bible that you don’t understand it or it seems weird or, you know, it seems like it contradicts itself, those kinds of things. Or a theological question or even perhaps you’re not a Christian at all. You don’t believe the Bible at all. You think Christians are pretty silly to believe in such things, and you want to talk about that. I’d love to talk to you about that, especially if you have reasons for it. I’d like to hear your reasons. In any case, the phone number is 844-484-5737. That’s 844-484-5737. I’m looking at two open lines on our switchboard, so that’s a pretty good opportunity for you to call. We always have that going on. So if you call now, you’ll get through 844-484-5737. Now, we have some meetings in the Seattle, generally Seattle area, this week for the next four evenings. one of them is tonight in Bothell. Now, this is a meeting in a home. I pretty much have to call ahead and let them know you’re coming. But if you’re in Bothell or want to come to Bothell for this meeting tonight, you can call them, and I’m pretty sure they probably still have room. Tomorrow night I’ll be in Monroe, Washington. The next night, Mercer Island. No, no, yeah. Yeah, the next day is Mercer Island, also in a home. But it’s pretty full. They might be able to squeeze you in, but I think they – I’m not sure. I think they told me that they got exactly the same number of chairs in their house. as the number of calls we’ve gotten from people who want to come, which is a pretty big number to be crowded at home. But they might be able to squeeze you in if you want to sit on the floor or something or bring your own chair. That’s Mercer Island on Wednesday night. And then Thursday night I’m speaking primarily to a youth group, but I don’t think it’s closed to old codgers like myself. And that’s in North Bend, Washington. So all of those are kind of in the general context. Washington, Seattle area. So tonight through Thursday night, I’ve got different locations I’ll be speaking. All of these, I think, are open to the public. You can find out the information about where they are, how to contact them, and so forth at our website. Our website is thenarrowpath.com. That’s thenarrowpath.com. Go there, check on the announcements tab, and you’ll find out everything there is to know about these meetings. This Week in Washington State. All right, we’re going to go to the phone lines now. Our lines are full. And we’ll talk first of all to Frederick in Dunmore, West Virginia. Hi, Frederick. Welcome.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, hi. I called Friday and I called near the end of the show. And my second question, there wasn’t time to answer. The call disconnected. And that was in Galatians 3.29, Paul says that the Christians are the new Israel now. Or something to that effect.
SPEAKER 02 :
You said the seed of Abraham. We’re the seed of Abraham, yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
Or the seed of Abraham. So do the Sinaitic laws apply to Christians now? Because they were addressed to Israel, I read in a commentary.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, they were made to the nation of Israel, right? And we are not the nation of Israel. Now, Paul does use the expression in Galatians 6.16, he uses the expression, the Israel of God, which I think most reasonably refers to the church as the Israel of God, though frankly, there’s another view about that. Some people think that when Paul speaks of the Israel of God, he’s only talking about the faithful remnant of Jewish people who have become Christians, and they are the Israel of God. I think all in all, Paul’s argument throughout Galatians would suggest that he’s thinking of the church as holding that role. Because, as you pointed out, in Galatians 3.29, he said that if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise. Now, to be Abraham’s seed doesn’t mean that you’re necessarily part of the nation of Israel. Though, in the Old Testament times, a person who was Abraham’s seed was probably part of the nation of Israel. Um, But now, see, the nation of Israel was formed, as you mentioned, by the Sinaitic covenant. At Mount Sinai, God took the offspring of Abraham, along with a bunch of Gentiles who came out of Egypt with them, brought them to Mount Sinai and forged them into a nation, which afterward was called Israel. And that nation was to be distinctive from the other nations of the world. They were to be God’s holy nation, his holy people. Now, but that was conditional. And he made it very clear there was. I mean, he didn’t make any promises prior to making the conditions. He said at Mount Sinai, before he said anything else about the covenant there, he said in Exodus 19, 5 and 6, if you will obey my voice and if you will keep my covenant, then you’ll be a peculiar treasury. Then you’ll be a kingdom to me of priests. Then you’ll be a holy nation. So that these people would be God’s holy nation was conditional upon them keeping his covenant, obeying his voice. He states it in no uncertain terms. That fact is also repeated numerous times by Moses in Deuteronomy especially, but also in Leviticus. More than, you know, I’d say probably about a handful or half a dozen times, it’s made clear to Israel that their status with God as a holy nation is entirely based on their faithfulness to the covenants that he gave them. Well, they were not. They were not faithful. And so what the prophets said was that the promises, especially the ultimate eternal promises, that God has for his people only really apply to a remnant of the people of Israel. That means a small portion of them, the ones who are faithful to God. So the whole nation was supposed to be faithful, but they weren’t. But some were. Some members of the nation of Israel were faithful, and they were called the faithful remnant. And the prophets made it very clear that it would be the faithful remnant that would benefit. And he’s going to make a new covenant with them. Well, that happened. Jesus came. He fulfilled the promises of the Messiah coming. He made a new covenant with the faithful remnant in the upper room who were his disciples. And that new covenant, according to New Testament writings, replaces the old covenant. So you ask if we are the Israel of God or if we’re the seed of Abraham and heirs of the promises. It’s not talking about the promises of the Sinaitic covenants. It’s the promises God made to Abraham, which were of a different sort for the most part. But the thing that the New Testament says is that, like, for example, in 2 Corinthians 3, Paul said he’s a minister of the new covenant. And he spoke about the old covenant as being analogous to the glow of the glory on Moses’ face when he came down from the mountain. But he says it was a fading glory. where he says the new covenant doesn’t fade away. In fact, it grows greater and greater. He said, unlike Moses, we all with unveiled faces, beholding as an emir of the glory of the Lord, we’re changed from glory to glory. So it goes the other direction. The glory of the old covenant was passing away. And Paul says that was analogous to the fact that the covenant itself was passing away. But then there’s a new covenant. where the glory now resides and increasing permanently. So the new covenant has permanently replaced the disappearing old covenant. Now, the writer of Hebrews said that, too, in more than one place. It says that he takes away the old covenant and makes a new one, it says. And in Hebrews 8.13, it says where there’s new covenants, The other one, the old one, is obsolete. So it’s made very clear God doesn’t have two covenant peoples simultaneously, some who belong to him because of the old covenant and some because of the new covenant. In fact, Paul compares it to a marriage that a woman, or two marriages a woman might have if her first husband dies. He said she can’t marry a second time if he’s alive, but if he’s dead, she can marry a second time. So she can have two different covenants in her life with different husbands, but not both at the same time. And that’s how God is, too. He’s had two covenants with his people, but not both at the same time. The Sinaitic covenant was the first one, but that has come to an end. The new covenant is the second one, and that’s the one that still exists. And Christians, therefore… relate to God through the new covenant. Now, a covenant is a contract. And a contract is made between two parties, determining what each one will be obliged to do for the other. And so, you know, a person who enters into a contract makes certain promises that he will do certain things for the other contracting party. But also there are promises from the other party that are benefits to you. And so, you know, God made a new covenant. That means there’s new promises, there’s new benefits, but there’s also new stipulations. It’s a different contract. The old contract has been scrapped. God just formed a new contract with the faithful of his people. So that new contract doesn’t have, for example, animal sacrifices or dietary laws or special holy days and holy places and holy priests and things like that that are set apart separately. The new contract, the new covenant, everybody in it is a priest. Everyone is a living sacrifice to God. You know, everyone is part of the temple and so forth, the stones of the temple. So the physical temple, the physical priesthood, the physical sacrifice is all part of the old covenant are gone. And we’re not under those. Now, we are under Christ because he’s the king. You don’t become part of Christ’s kingdom without him being your king. And you don’t have a king without being obligated to do what he says. So that’s why Jesus said, why do you call me Lord, Lord, and you don’t do what I say? So even though we don’t have to keep any of the laws in terms of the old covenant, we do have to obey Jesus. Now, if you obey Jesus, then you’re going to, as he said, do justly. You’ll value mercy and faithfulness. He said these are the weightier matters. And therefore, as the Old Testament would not allow you to murder or commit adultery or steal, Yeah, Jesus doesn’t let you do that either because those are not justice. We’re not under the commands of the Old Covenant, but we are under the commands of Christ. And, you know, if we obey Christ’s commands, we will not be violating any of the moral commands of the Old Testament. That’s why Paul said in Galatians 5 that the fruit of the Spirit, which is he’s describing the Christian life, who’s a Christian who’s living in the Spirit of Christ, is love and joy and peace and, you know, goodness and self-control and faithfulness. He lists these nine things. And he says, against these there is no law. Which means, you know, if you’re walking in the spirit, you’re not going to be violating any moral laws anyway. You’re not under those laws, but you don’t have to be. Being under Christ and obeying him keeps you well within the perimeters of any Proper good and moral laws. So you live the same moral life, maybe even better than you would under the law. But you’re not doing it because of the law. You’re doing it because of Jesus. So that’s how we relate to the old covenant law.
SPEAKER 03 :
So if we’re not Israel per se, we’re children of the promise. Is that a better way to put it?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes, yes. Paul referred to believers in both Romans 11. He referred to children of the promise. Also in Galatians 3, or Galatians 4, he distinguished between children of the promise and children of the flesh. And he’s basically saying that Jewish people who don’t follow Christ are children of Abraham according to the flesh. That is to say physically. They physically descended from Abraham. But he also says that being a child of Abraham according to the flesh counts for nothing. But what counts is being a child of Abraham according to the promise.
SPEAKER 03 :
And so if someone is only a child of Abraham… Was that Genesis 18 where that promise was given?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, the first form of the promise is given in Genesis 12, but it’s repeated a number of places. It’s added to, you know, in chapter, I believe, 14 and 15, 18. You know, it’s repeated to Isaac and to Jacob also. So the promise that God made to Abraham is repeated numerous times throughout Genesis, sometimes with different features mentioned and others omitted, but it’s the same promise. It’s just that it’s not always given in its fullest form.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. Well, that’s good. Thank you.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay, Frederick. Good talking to you. Have a good day or evening. It’s late where you are. Okay. Frank in Michigan. Welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling.
SPEAKER 07 :
Hi, Steve. Thanks for taking my call. Two quick questions. First question has to do with do you have any general advice on how to overcome legalism? If you’re the type of person always feeling like guilty like i didn’t fast enough i didn’t pray enough i didn’t read my bible enough any scriptures or advice on how to overcome that um second question is romans 14 23 this kind of goes with the first question it says uh and he that doubted is damned if he eat because he eat it not of faith for whatsoever is not of faith is sin and if you got a personality where you always Not 100% sure is this the right thing. Does that mean everything I do, like I go to exercise and I’m thinking bodily exercise profits little. So if I get a thought like that and I’m not 100% sure if I should exercise right now, according to that scripture, does it mean a sin?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, of course, something that profits a little is better than nothing. There’s a lot of activities people do that don’t profit at all. But you’re right. Paul does contrast. It says bodily exercise profits a little, but godliness is profitable for all. It has rewards in this life and in the next. So, I mean, there’s a hierarchy of things. You could do one thing and it’s not a bad thing, but you could do other things that might be better things. Now, we should. Legalism stems from a mentality of saying, I’m pretty sure that God’s default attitude toward me is negative. And therefore, I need to find out what things I have to do to change his attitude, or at least to make him ignore his negative attitude and treat me like he likes me. And so different religions, the Jews had theirs, and Buddhists and Muslims have theirs, and so forth. Different religions have different rules. that they think are going to put them at rights with either God or Dharma or something else, depending on their religion. But the truth is that Jesus revealed something that was quite unreligious, and it had nothing to do with the assumption that God has a default hatred for people and he’ll just grudgingly give them a break at the judgment day if they’ve done enough good things and avoided enough bad things. The Bible says God so loved the world. Now, the world that he loved was all sinners. None of them were born-again Christians. But God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son. Now, Jesus said no one has greater love than that, than to lay down his life for his friends. And Jesus said he came because the Father sent him. He’s pleasing the Father by laying down his life, showing the love of God. It says that in 1 John. Hereby we know the love of God because he laid down his life for us. The whole point is that God loved us while we were still sinners. It says in Romans 5, 7, and 8, while we were his enemies, he loved us. Now, this is very contrary to human emotion, and it’s very hard for us to grasp, and therefore people need to get a revelation of this. This is a revelation of the grace of God. God’s grace toward us is that he’s favorably disposed toward us even while we’re sinners. It’s an unmerited favor that he has toward us. He loves us. He is generous toward us. He is essentially on our side the most that we will allow him to be. I mean, there are people who determine that they will not receive the grace of God. They will not respond to the love of God. They want to hate God and so forth. And it’s probable that they will never, you know, experience the grace of God. But, see, that’s the opposite of what the legalistic mindset is. is anger and wrath. But if you do enough good things and avoid enough bad things, you can kind of turn that around. I believe that the Bible teaches the opposite. God loves the world. God loves sinners. Jesus was criticized by religious people because he’s a friend of sinners, and he certainly was the best friend they ever had. He’s the best friend sinners have ever had. Jesus is a friend of sinners. Now, of course, a person can fail to be saved. If they spurn his friendship, if they say, stay away from me, I want nothing to do with you, well, then, of course, they can end up on the wrong side. But this is not pleasing to God, and this is not necessary. It’s a choice that has to be made. God loves us. Now, to say God loves us doesn’t mean everyone’s saved. He loves everyone. But like the prodigal son’s father, he loved his son even when he was in the far country, but his son received no benefit from that fact. His son could have starved to death and died penniless and lost if he hadn’t come back to his father. But all the while, his father still loved him and wanted him to come back. His father was well disposed toward him. The son said, well, I’m going to give a real humble speech of repentance when I get home. So my dad will maybe let me be a slave. I know he won’t let me be a son. But before he uttered a word to his father, his father saw him and came running out to meet him and grabbed him and hugged him, just eager to have him nearby. And then his son started making his speech. And before he was finished, his father, you know, just hold your peace. I’m throwing a party for you, you know. I mean, God’s love for sinners is far greater than almost any sinner could imagine. And religious people, often are not any better than sinners are in terms of imagining that. The assumption that people have about God is he’s a lot like us. In Psalm 50, God says, you thought that I was altogether such one as you. And that’s the biggest problem we have. We think that God is a lot like us in that if somebody offends us, we’re going to hold it against them. If somebody cheats us, we’re going to take it out of their flesh. We’re going to do what we can to get even. And certainly God must be like that, because who wouldn’t be? Well, God wouldn’t be. God is not like that. God’s not a getting even type of God. There is punishment for people who will not receive grace. But he doesn’t want them to reject grace. He doesn’t want them to be lost. God’s not willing that any should perish. That all should come to repentance, it says in 2 Peter 3. It says in Ezekiel 33, 11, God says, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their evil ways and live. Turn, turn, why will you die, he says. Why don’t you just repent? I don’t want you to die. He’s talking to his enemies. He’s talking to wicked people. That’s what he describes. He says that to the wicked. But he loves them. He doesn’t want them to die. They will if they reject him. But he’s not that way. So how do we avoid legalism? Well, legalism pretty much gets banished by a full revelation of God’s grace and of who he is. Jesus sought to get this idea across largely through his introduction of the idea that God is like a father to us. I mean, the idea of God being a father was not 100% absent from the Old Testament, but it hardly mentioned maybe three or four times of that. And the Jews didn’t usually think of God as a father. It was too cozy there. It was too familial. They thought they should use much less intimate words for God. But Jesus continually referred to God as the Father. And he said, he’s like your father. He said, you bad fathers even know how to give good gifts to your children. When they ask, how much more will your heavenly Father give good things to those who ask him? Human fathers still love their children and will favor their children. How much more would God be like that? I’ve talked to so many people who, when they first had their first child, these are Christian people, who said, you know, until I had a child, I had no idea how much God loved me. But when I began to have a child, and I realized how much God loved me, I realized that’s what Jesus said God is like toward us. He loves us. And you never know that until you’ve had a child of your own. I can’t say you never know it, but you get a new revelation, a new degree of insight into it. when you have a child. And even when your children grow up, if they rebel, you get an even better picture of how God feels about sinners because you’ve got some in your family and you know very well that nothing your children do would ever make you stop loving them. They might have to suffer for being bad things. Their choices have consequences, but there’s not anything they would do that would make you not love them. If there is, you’re not a very good parent and not a very normal one. So the truth is, When you get the revelation of the love of God and the grace of God, it kind of sweeps out the window. All the religious ideas that there’s a grumpy God with a short fuse who’s peevish and angry, easily angered. But, you know, if you work hard enough, you might be able to get past his wrath. That’s not the way that he’s depicted, not by Jesus. I don’t think he’s depicted that way in the Old Testament either. So how do you get over legalism? That way, get to know who God is. And it really helps to get what we call a revelation of that. You could ask God to give you by his spirit a revelation of his grace and of his love. And once you understand it, it’s such a pleasure to live for God. Because John said in 1 John, we love him because he first loved us. Once you know his love for you, how can you not love him? I think anyone who does not love God has not had a revelation. of the love of God in their heart. And if they have, then they say, why would I ever want to do anything to hurt him? It’s not that I’m afraid he’s going to punish me. I mean, there is such a thing as consequences for bad decisions, but that’s not what motivates me. I don’t serve God because I’m afraid to go to hell or because I’m afraid or because I want to go to heaven. I serve God because, well, that’s what you do when you love someone. You want to please them. And so the legalistic life sees God as hard to please and needing a whole bunch of hard things done in order to appease him. Whereas I think Jesus’ idea is that, listen, God loves sinners. God loves people. You can be stupid and you can take a path that would make yourself be on a collision course with him, just like you can get on a railroad track in a car and start driving toward the oncoming train. Yeah, that’ll turn out badly. But that’s your own choice. You don’t have to do that. You can return his love. And so love and grace, these are the characteristics of God. Once you know them, they defeat the legalistic attitude. Because legalism is based on the assumption that God doesn’t naturally love us or have grace toward us, but we have to really work hard to get on his good side. We should. We should get on his good side. We should obey him. We should please him in every way. But it’s not something we earn. It’s something we do in response to understanding his love. I need to take a break. I hope that’s helpful, brother. You’re listening to The Narrow Path. Our website’s thenarrowpath.com. We have another half hour coming, so don’t go away. I’ll be back in 30 seconds.
SPEAKER 01 :
If truth did exist, would it matter to you? Whom would you consult as an authority on the subject? In a 16-lecture series entitled The Authority of Scriptures, Steve Gregg not only thoroughly presents the case for the Bible’s authority, but also explains how this truth is to be applied to a believer’s daily walk and outlook. The Authority of Scriptures can be downloaded in MP3 format without charge from our website, thenarrowpath.com.
SPEAKER 02 :
Welcome back to the Narrow Path Radio Broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg and we’re live for another half hour taking your calls. If you have questions about the Bible or the Christian faith, you want to talk about them here. We’d love to hear from you. If you see things differently than the host and want to talk about that, I’d love to hear from you, too. The way to do it is call this number and get in line. The number is 844-484-5737. We have one line open right now. 844-484-5737. All right. Our next call today comes from Roberto Ramirez. from Bentonville, Arkansas. Hello, Roberto.
SPEAKER 05 :
Hello, Steve, Greg. Thanks for taking my call. I just want to say thank you for your excellent, excellent videos on YouTube for the Seeking for the Truth. They are just outstanding. My question would be, do you think there is more division in Christianity and the Christian community, if you will, in this nation regarding just theological differences about the Bible and what it means. I was watching one of my favorite discernment type channels, you know what I mean? And they were just lying and slandering old Dr. Michael Heiser and about his teachings, his ancient Israelite worldview. You know, just saying it’s… Doreen Virtue did the same thing, Gnostic and paganism and all that. And I think he takes his stuff, imagery, a lot from references from the Apocrypha books and stuff like that. Yeah, from Charlie Kirk’s… Yeah, and Charlie Kirk’s murder, I thought, well… I’m so heartbroken about Charlie Kirk’s murder, but I was hoping that somehow the Christian community would come together with the Jewish community, even they don’t believe in each other’s theology, for mutual protection because of all the shootings that were going on before Charlie Kirk’s murder. But I just see certain Christian YouTube channels and such doubling down, blaming Israel for everything and this anti-Zionism movement. Could you tell me what you see going on in the Christian community? And I’ll take your answers, Pierre. Thank you, sir.
SPEAKER 02 :
All right. Yeah. I mean, you began by talking about theological differences. and whether I think there’s more division in the body of Christ now. And then you moved, of course, to Israel and the church and anti-Semitism and things like that. Let’s face it, mankind is pretty divided. It has been for a long time. When it comes to the question, are evangelicals divided over theological systems more than in the past, I’m going to say it depends on which period of the past we look at. I mean, if we look at the Middle Ages, most of Western Europe was Roman Catholic. They may have been divided over some things, but they’re for the most part of the same movement. That’s not necessarily a good thing. It could be, but I think there were some problems with it. So then we had the Reformation. That caused a form of division. you know, division that some people think was a bad thing. I think it was a good thing. That is to say, I think some things in the Catholic mindset had to be challenged biblically. But, of course, the reformers weren’t perfect either. And their descendants broke up into different theological camps. Of course, we have, by the 1700s, we’ve got, you know, Arminianism and Calvinism kind of butting heads against each other. Eventually, by the late 19th century, we’ve got the dispensationalism. Camp starting up and breaking ground away from historic Christianity and other respects. And groups kept dividing and dividing and dividing. Now, I would say that since the 20th century or the 19th century, I don’t know that we’re more divided as a body of Christ than we were then. We might even be less so. But the division, the groups are still there. But I can remember a time when I was young, and that’s a long time to remember back to, but I can remember, because I was raised in a church, an evangelical church, having attitudes towards some other evangelical groups, thinking that they weren’t as pleasing to God as we were. We had better theology, I thought. We had the gospel more pure. Our understanding of the Bible is better than theirs, and things like that. And In those days, people didn’t really cross-pollinate between denominations as much as they do now. And I think that cross-pollination, which is partly due, frankly, to, I guess, the denominations becoming less popular as such, and there’s more non-denominational groups or inter-denominational groups, I think that the movement of non-denominationalism probably had an effect on this. Certainly a more open-mindedness to hear other people’s point of views. Certainly with the coming of the Internet, it’s really hard to keep anyone down on the farm anymore. Actually, when I was a kid, there was sort of a cultural motto that it’s not polite to talk about religion or politics in public. I mean, it was considered that those are divisive. And so, you know, when you go to a party or you’re with other people or at work and you’re talking about stuff, you leave religion and politics out of it because those are divisive. Now people talk about religion and politics all the time with everybody on the Internet and everything. So what that has meant is that, you know, 50 years ago, it was fairly easy for a church of a certain denomination to simply isolate their people from the beliefs of other people. Not completely isolated. But unless they were very motivated to go out and seek out the views of other people, they probably wouldn’t hear them. People largely lived in the same town, worked at the same job, went to the same church all their lives, as did their children or grandchildren. And because they went to one church, they heard the theology of that church. And until the 20th century, they weren’t listening to radio, or certainly until the late 20th century, they didn’t have the Internet. And so they just weren’t getting the information we have. So it was easy to keep them down on the farm, so to speak. The pastor could just indicate, this is what the Bible teaches. And, you know, the people who don’t think that way don’t pay any attention to them. They don’t know what they’re talking about. And so people were just as divided and maybe more divided. except they didn’t talk about things as much. That is, if you went to work and you were a Lutheran and one of your people at work was a Pentecostal and one was a Roman Catholic, you probably didn’t talk about religion so that you didn’t seem very divided. You were divided, that is to say you didn’t have an acceptance of each other as fellow Christians, but you didn’t fight over it. Now people fight more, and that’s partly because they are exposed more to each other. People talk more about their beliefs. And what would have been a fight 50 years ago was avoided by simply not talking about those things. They are talked about now, so there are more visible fights. But the mentalities probably are not worse than they were in terms of sticking to one’s doctrine. In fact, it may be that things have improved in that respect. Because I think you’ll find more people these days who are listening to other points of view that wouldn’t and didn’t have the opportunity to before. And sometimes they’re either moderating their feelings toward other groups or even changing their minds about the things. So it’s hard to know which metric to measure by. Are things more divisive now? Now, society in general, outside the church, is definitely more divided because… There was a time when even the non-Christians in Western civilization, Europe and America primarily, Australia perhaps too, even the non-Christians were aware of Christianity and probably had Christian roots themselves, even if they’re not following Christ. They knew the Ten Commandments. They knew the Golden Rule. They knew stuff that the Bible teaches and pretty much thought it was good stuff. Even if they didn’t want to be a disciple of Jesus, they didn’t disapprove of the ethics and morals that Jesus taught. Whereas now they do. Because, first of all, we live in a society where the non-Christians, in many cases, they’re rebelling deliberately against Christianity. They’re listening to atheists who write books and have Internet blogs that are undermining Christianity and mocking it and making every attempt to make it look evil and silly. And so… In a time where people weren’t doing that in a Western civilization that mostly embraced a biblical worldview, socially people had a lot of the same ideas, and therefore people assassinating each other because they have different views, or blaming whole races for bad behaviors, like people were blaming the Jews or whatever now. That was, I think… Probably not so common back in the day when people were mostly biblically trained or exposed. Whereas we have society now where probably a whole generation or two, maybe three, have been raised largely ignorant of the Bible. And they’re kind of making up things as they go along because they don’t have a foundation. And because of that, they split into so many different hostile views from each other. And by the way, since they don’t have a biblical foundation, they have no foundation for what they believe, which makes them feel insecure in their beliefs. If you’ve got a solid rock you’re standing on, you’re secure. If you’re just making stuff up as you go along, you don’t have any foundation for your beliefs except your opinion. And if somebody thinks differently, your views are insecure. You’ve got no way to prove them. You’ve got no reason to believe your views, but you’re threatened by the fact that someone doesn’t agree with you. So you’ve got people fighting each other, afraid of each other, hating each other, killing each other now over things that I don’t think that would have happened back in an age where the American culture was far more cohesive because of a biblical foundation and ethic, even among those who are not Christians. Hey, let’s try to get some more in here before we’re out of time. We’ve got, who’s next? It’s Daryl from Sacramento, California. Welcome.
SPEAKER 04 :
Hello. I read your comments. I listened to them on the video, actually. When you talk about salvation, how to be saved, I think it is.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay, I’m not sure. I’ve got 1,500 lectures, and I talk about that a lot. Are you talking about a specific lecture I gave?
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah. He said that people are saved by their sins, but I think that he’s willing to give us life. But the question is… Wait, wait, wait.
SPEAKER 02 :
You said that I said we’re saved by our sins? I don’t know what that means.
SPEAKER 04 :
No, we’re saved for the goodness of our sins.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay, okay, that’s right.
SPEAKER 04 :
And I think Demas says we’re saved by his life. But that’s my comment. But my question is, in that line of thinking, Christ is lifted up and he will draw all men unto himself. But I need more details about how the drawing takes place, why are they coming, and the time of framework was to be done.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, Jesus made that comment in John chapter 12. where he said, I, if I be lifted up, I’ll draw all men to myself. Some people think he’s simply saying that he will draw Gentiles and Jews as opposed to just Jews to himself at that time. Partly because in the context, some Greek men had come to see Jesus and they wanted an audience with him. And it doesn’t sound like he gave them that audience, but he did say some things that were directed toward them. And he said, you know, if I’m lifted up, I’ll draw all men to myself. Whereas previously he’d only been reaching out to the Jews. After his death and resurrection, he’d eventually, you know, send the gospel out to all men, including Greeks and so forth. Some think that that’s what he’s saying. We do know, though, that all men can mean without exception. And it certainly is the case that God wants all people to be saved. That’s stated in many cases in the Bible. So… You know, when he says, I’ll draw all men to myself, I think some of the drawing, of course, is in the preaching of the gospel. Paul told the Colossians that they were called through the gospel to God. And, of course, when you hear the gospel, then you have an opportunity to respond to the gospel. But even hearing it doesn’t necessarily itself draw you, because people can resist and react negatively to the word of God, just like they can receive it. So to be drawn to the gospel… requires, I think, the work of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said when the Spirit comes, he said this in John 16, he said when the Spirit comes, he’ll convict the world of sin and righteousness and judgment. So the Holy Spirit comes and he convicts people. That conviction, too, can be resisted, but it can also be received. I mean, a person can feel convicted and, you know, kill the messenger because they don’t want to feel that conviction, just like when Stephen preached to the Sanhedrin and says they were cut to the heart So they killed him, you know. But on the day of Pentecost, when Peter preached, the people were cut to the heart, and they said, what must we do to be saved? You know, so, I mean, when the Holy Spirit’s convicting, you can either kill the messenger or you can say, okay, what do I have to do to get this right? Now, what makes the difference between those reactions? I don’t know. I mean, it probably has an awful lot to do with the work that God’s done in your life prior to that. I mean, for one thing, a person who’s been raised in a good family, a godly family, may be more ripe for conversion than somebody who wasn’t, although maybe not. Maybe someone raised in a pagan family, the gospel will come at a time when they know their need more than a religious person would. I don’t know. I would say that among the things that God uses to draw people is speaking to their consciences, appealing to them through the creation. If people happen to be contemplative enough and notice the creation, they may say, wow, there’s got to be a God. I wonder who he is. I wonder where I’ll find him. And may even start looking for him. Meeting people who are good Christians, who are the light of the world, who draw you to them and to Christ. This happened, I think, a lot in the book of Acts chapter 2 that changed lives of the community of Christians. It was so impressive. that people wanted to join them frequently. And, you know, so God can work through circumstances or he can work directly on the heart through his spirit. But if you say, how does God draw? I wouldn’t put any limits on how he draws. Now, if you’re thinking in terms of Calvinist ideas, the Calvinists believe that God has preordained some people to be saved and that they will not be drawn unless God draws them. And if he does draw them, they can’t resist. They think of the drawing of God, the Greek word is helko for drawing, They see it as a dragging, that God drags them almost against their will, as it were, though they would never have had any inclination to come to God. His grace is irresistible and draws them, but only if they’re the elect. Now, the Bible doesn’t say that anywhere. I realize that Calvinists think that’s the whole teaching of Scripture. No, you can’t find any Scripture that actually presents that as the truth. God wants all people to be saved. He hasn’t decided that he wants to save a few and send the others to hell and doesn’t care about them. He doesn’t say that God can’t be resisted. Jesus said, Jerusalem, Jerusalem, how many times I would have gathered you as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you would not. So, obviously, God can try to gather them, can try to draw them, and they can resist. So, I mean, this Calvinist idea is simply a man-made doctrine. It originated around 400 A.D., so no Christian teachers in the first 300 years believed it. And I don’t think most Christians believe it now either, but it’s still out there. Anyway, the drawing of God can take many forms, I think.
SPEAKER 04 :
Sir, one more verse I want to bring to your mind. 1 Corinthians, no, 2 Corinthians 16.2, I think it is. 1 Corinthians 16.2 talks about giving. And I’ve written a commentary that’s a subtle implication that it means to tithe.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, whoever said that is importing their own theology. There’s no reference to tithe in the New Testament as a Christian duty.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay. Appreciate your answer. Thank you.
SPEAKER 02 :
All right. Thank you. All right, good talking to you. We’re going to talk next to Rico from Brentwood, California. Rico, welcome.
SPEAKER 06 :
Hi there. Are you there? Uh-huh. Okay, great. Hey, I sure appreciate your ministry, man. Real quick, so I never actually heard you touch on the subject of alcohol, and so these questions here would certainly answer or it would get what you got. Number one thing is I would love to hear your interpretation on alcohol Deuteronomy chapter 14, 24 through 26. 26 is really it, but for context, 24 through 26. And then essentially, in your definition, what is a drunkard? And then also, what would you say to the Christian that walks with God, follows God, reads the Word, and has a personal relationship with Jesus, but has a drink every night, not to the extent of drunkenness? And so those questions there, I’d love to hear from you.
SPEAKER 02 :
Can you give me the reference in Deuteronomy again? It’s Deuteronomy what?
SPEAKER 06 :
Chapter 14. Uh-huh. Verse… Hello? Can you hear me? I didn’t hear you, no. Chapter 14, 24 through 26. But 26 is really… Yes, Deuteronomy, yes.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay, so it talks about if you live too far away from the temple to bring your tithe in the form of, you know, bags of grain or animals, you can sell those where you live, bring the money to the temple and buy new ones and give them there. Is that what you’re asking about?
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, verse 26, though, most importantly.
SPEAKER 02 :
And you shall spend the money for whatever your heart desires. For oxen, for sheep, for wine, for similar drink, or whatever your heart desires, you shall eat there before the Lord your God. Yeah, well, that’s what they did. I mean, they brought things to offer at the temple. The tithe, in particular, was for the Levites, but the animals that you sacrificed, you would eat some of that. I mean, that was part of, not all the sacrifice, the whole burnt offerings, you burn the whole thing, but the other, the sin offering, the the trespass offering and so forth, the peace offerings, the worshiper would bring that. Some of it would be offered on the altar. The rest would be eaten as a feast. So it was kind of a celebration. And so he does talk about you can buy whatever animals you want to to eat them and stuff.
SPEAKER 06 :
I was particularly going to the part where it says buying wine and strong drink, right? Because I’m really kind of… Yeah, your take on alcohol.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, the Bible has nothing negative to say about alcohol, except that if you drink too much of it, you get crazy. I mean, that’s what Proverbs tells you. In Proverbs, several of the Proverbs talk about the dangers of alcohol and how you lose your wits and so forth. In Proverbs 31… King Lemuel’s mother tells him not to get drunk with wine because, you know, he’ll lose his capacity to make wise judgments and things like that. It’s obvious in Scripture that alcohol, if consumed in large quantities, is going to be consciousness altering. And that’s not a good thing. You don’t want that. Now, of course, anyone who has drunk a little bit of wine or beer or something like that knows you can drink a little bit of that and it doesn’t alter your consciousness. I’ve heard people say, well, the first sip of wine, man, it alters your consciousness. Well, I’m not a drinker. I don’t like alcohol. I’ve never, you know. Give me a choice between a glass of water and a glass of wine. I’ll take the water every time. Not because I think it’s wrong to drink wine. It’s not wrong to drink wine. The Bible doesn’t say it’s wrong to drink wine. I just don’t like this stuff. I’ve never liked alcohol, never been a drinker. But on the other hand, I have tasted wine. Sometimes there have been times in my life, not recently because I don’t care for it, but when I was younger, I’d have a beer with pizzas. You know, there’s people having beer in a pitcher at the pizza parlor or whatever. And, you know, it doesn’t affect me. I mean, a beer doesn’t affect much of anyone, I don’t think. Half a glass of wine probably doesn’t affect much of anyone either. Now, you get drinking more than that, and sometimes people have different resistance to it. I mean, some people could probably drink a six-pack of beers and not be very affected. Others, you know, a couple beers might begin to put them over the edge. I don’t know. I don’t have a lot of experience with this, but I know that most people I have known have have had some experience with drinking of one kind or another, and some have been drunkards. Being a drunkard is a sin. It’s a work of the flesh. Paul said drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God. But, you know, drinking a glass of wine, if it doesn’t get you drunk, not a thing in the world as it gets it. You have to ask yourself when people say, well, drinking alcohol or having alcohol is a sin. Well, who do you think invented alcohol? I mean, Jesus turned water to wine, and anyone who tells us that was grape juice isn’t reading the story well. They’re just inserting their own theology. Jesus made wine. The church took wine for communion. We know that because Paul said that the Corinthians were drinking too much of it at communion, and they got drunk. So you can’t get drunk on too much grape juice. And they had no way to keep grape juice as grape juice. You bring in the grapes one time a year. You’d trample them, you’d put them in wine bags, and you’d drink it all year long. But since you had no refrigeration, there’s no way to keep it from fermenting. And wine will ferment rather quickly without refrigeration. So we know that they drank wine all year long until the next vintage season, and it was wine. And they needed it to be wine because they put it in their water to sanitize their water. Unless you’ve lived in a third world country, you might not be able to appreciate this, but all countries in the world were third world in those days. The water was not safe. And so people would mix wine with it. Why? Because wine had alcohol in it. Wine would make the water safe to drink. If it was grape juice, it wouldn’t help. It had to have alcohol. Alcohol is good for medicinal purposes. You know, the good cement poured oil and wine into the wounds of the man who had been beaten up. Why? Because wine… There’s a lot of good things that alcohol can do. And medicinally, we use it a lot. You probably have some cough syrup in your house that has alcohol in it. Maybe not. Most Christians probably do. So alcohol in itself is not a bad thing, just like food is not. Someone says, well, if Jesus made water into real wine and people got drunk, then he’s responsible for getting them drunk. Not at all. God made food, too, but he’s not responsible for people who are gluttons. You know, what a silly thing to think. If God makes something that is in itself good, but there’s hardly anything in itself good that can’t be abused, including sex, let’s say. God made sex the sixth day. He made Adam and Eve, made them reproducible through sex and told them to do it. But sex is a good thing in that context. But sex, like anything else, can be done wrong. Drinking and eating can be done wrong. And so there’s some arguments that taking a little wine with your water instead of just water alone is safer. Like I said, that’s how they did it in the Middle East in ancient times. And that’s what Timothy had been neglecting. Tim was drinking only water, Paul said, and he had stomach problems. Why? Well, go to some third world country and drink their water and find out why. You drink water without sanitizing it, you can get amoebic dysentery. And Timothy apparently did. He had frequent infirmities of his stomach. So Paul said, put a little wine in it like everybody else does, you know. Don’t just drink water. So, yeah, wine is alcoholic. Alcohol has great medicinal benefits. It also has the capacity, like everything else, to be abused. Food can be abused. Alcohol can be abused. Sleep can be abused. Sexual drives can be abused. Anything God made that is good can be abused. That doesn’t mean we outlaw those things. We outlaw the abuse of them. Not outlaw, but as Christians, we don’t practice the abuse of them. That’s the biblical norm. Anyway, I’m out of time. I wish we could talk more about this, but you can find more online in my lectures about it, too. You’re listening to The Narrow Path. We are listener-supported. If you’d like to help us stay on the air, you can write to The Narrow Path, PO Box 1730, Gila, California, 92593, or go to our website, thenarrowpath.com.
