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Join Steve Gregg on The Narrow Path as he delves into the rich tapestry of biblical interpretation and theologians’ understanding of controversial topics like the temple of God. Is it a reference to the Jewish edifice, or does it symbolize something more profound? Listener calls shape this exploration, providing a lively debate on prophetic fulfillments and grasping the demands of living in accordance with Scripture.
SPEAKER 1 :
Thank you.
SPEAKER 02 :
Good afternoon, and welcome to the Narrow Path radio broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg, and we’re live for an hour each weekday afternoon, taking your calls if you have questions about the Bible or the Christian faith. We always welcome you to call in. We’ll be glad to talk to you about those things. A lot of people listening probably disagree with the host about some things, and you’re welcome to call in to balance comment. We don’t… We don’t prevent that. We don’t cancel people who disagree with us. We’re always glad to hear from you. In fact, it’s always a pleasure to hear from people who want to balance comments. So feel free to give me a call. We have a couple of lines open at the moment. The number is 844-484-5737. That’s 844-484. 57, 37. And the only announcement I have to make is that this Saturday, day after tomorrow, we have a men’s Bible study in Temecula in the morning. If you are in the region and want to join us, it’s at 8 o’clock Saturday morning. It happens once a month. And that’s this Saturday. And I teach, we’re talking about, I think, 1 Timothy at the moment. Anyway, but we end up talking about lots of things, too. That’s for men. That’s for men only. But that’s this Saturday. And if you’re in the area, we’d love to have you. If you want to know how to get there and all the stuff about it, just go to our website, thenarrowpath.com, and look under announcements, and you’ll find that important information to help you join us if you want to this Saturday morning. We’re going to go to the phones now and talk to John calling from Staten Island, New York. John, welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yes, good afternoon, Greg. I have to correct you. Yesterday, I’m doing a show. The Bible asks about the temple, and you apparently need to be corrected, because the man of perdition will be sitting in the temple.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, no, not the Jewish temple, certainly.
SPEAKER 09 :
Paul uses the expression… I don’t know what the temple… We’re talking about a temple. Now you’re saying a Jewish temple. What temple would it be?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, that’s a good question, and it’s worth asking.
SPEAKER 09 :
It is a good question. Go ahead.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes, let me answer a few of it. In 2 Thessalonians 2, verse 4, Paul says that the man of sin opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshipped so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. And that sounds like the Jewish temple to me. Well, it may sound like that to you until you read Paul’s other letters because Paul uses the expression the temple of God two other times in his letters. One of them is in 1 Corinthians 3, and verse 16, he says to the church in Corinth, Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? And then he says the same thing to them in his second letter that he writes them, 2 Corinthians 6, and verse 16, Paul said, What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of God. of the living God. So he says the church is the temple of the living God, and of course that agrees with what Peter said. Peter said that we are living stones being built up into a spiritual house, meaning a temple. Over in Ephesians, Paul says that we are built upon the foundation of apostles and prophets and growing into a holy temple in the Lord. So the temple of God, ever since Jesus died and ever since the Holy Spirit came, God resides in people. He resides in the body of Christ. Now, Paul never used the term temple of God in any of his writings to speak of the Jewish temple. So he appears to be saying in 2 Thessalonians that the man of sin would sit in the church. And that, you know, many, frankly, all the reformers thought that that had happened. The popes, the man of sin, and that they came to be manifest in the church. after the fall of the Roman Empire. They believe that when Paul said, that which hinders him will hinder until it’s taken up away, and then the man of sin will be revealed. The early church fathers believed that what was hindering him was the Roman Empire. And many of the fathers before that time, before the fall of the Roman Empire, predicted that when the Roman Empire would fall, then the man of sin would be revealed. And that’s because they were basing it on what Paul said. And then, of course, although the reformers lived after all this happened. They looked back and said, yeah, that happened. Paul was talking about that. So they felt that the temple of God that Paul’s referring to is the body of Christ or the church, which is, of course, the only way he ever is known to have used that term. So there’s not really a basis for thinking he’s referring to a Jewish temple.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, if there’s going to be a temple building in Israel, the man of perdition is going to be sitting there and he’s going to fool the Jewish people.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, you’re basing that on this verse we were just talking about. There’s no other verses that mention anything like that.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, it’s in the Bible. I don’t know where you’re getting it. I know what I’m talking about. Okay, tell me which other verse. The Jewish people.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay, I’ll tell you, that’s actually not in the Bible, but you’ve been told that it is in the Bible. It’s the dispensational view, which has been dominant for a couple hundred years in many parts of the evangelical world, but No, it’s not actually in the Bible. I can guarantee you that. I mean, the verse that mentions the man of sin being in the temple is the one we were just talking about, 2 Thessalonians 2.4. There’s no other reference to it. And there’s no reference in the New Testament to there being a future Jewish temple, a third temple, which is why I said what I did yesterday. I was telling the truth. There’s nothing in the Bible that predicts a third Jewish temple. Now, there are people who have interpreted the verse we were just looking at as if it predicts a third Jewish temple. but I just pointed out it doesn’t. Some people think that Ezekiel chapter 40 through 48 predicts a third Jewish temple, but it doesn’t. These predictions were made before the second temple was built. So it’s more likely pertinent to the second temple, not a third one. So apart from those things, there’s really nothing that people can really point to as having a third temple. And I believe that they’re mistaken in the context and the use of the words in those few passages which they actually appeal to. I see you’ve hung up, but thank you for calling. I do welcome people to disagree. And one thing I would really recommend, and I mean, it’s up to you, but if you disagree with me, you might come with some scripture that you can exegete for the position that you’re hoping to take. Because I sure will. And, you know, if you come unprepared for that, well, you know, it won’t go well for your position because you have to prove from Scripture that what you’re saying is true, not from the traditions of the religious group that taught you what to expect in the end times. Gary in Sacramento, California. Welcome to The Narrow Path.
SPEAKER 04 :
Hey, Steve. Thank you so much for taking the call. I have a question. Can you… You sound fairly distant.
SPEAKER 02 :
Are you on a speakerphone? We’re on the radio, so it would be good if you were right up next to your microphone. What about now? Yeah, that’s good.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay. Can you give us some context? Like, for instance, Paul says Ephesians, be angry but sin not, right? But also in Ephesians and Colossians, Paul says put off anger, right? In James, James says… put off anger for it doesn’t produce the righteousness that god requires so can you can you help us understand that a little more the difference between uh in ephesians be angry and sin not but also put off the two texts in ephesians colossians and then the text from james right that’s good good questions uh i can i can’t talk about those um
SPEAKER 02 :
When Paul said, be angry and sin not, he’s actually quoting from the Old Testament. He’s quoting Psalm 4, 4, which says the same thing. But then he explains what he means. We’re talking, of course, in Ephesians chapter 4, where he says, be angry and sin not. That’s verse 26. So he says, be angry and sin not. Do not let the sun go down on your wrath. Now, don’t let the sun go down on your wrath means that You have wrath, but you want to get rid of it before the sun is down. Don’t stay angry. And it’s later in that very same chapter, in verse 31 and 32, that he says, let all bitterness, wrath… anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you with all malice. And, of course, you point out that he says the same thing in Colossians, and James says something very much like that too. So we’re supposed to put away anger. Now, you put something away if you have it. If you don’t have something, you don’t put it away. There’s nothing there to put away. The assumption is that people all get angry, but they should not sin. Now, getting angry… may not be a sin. It can be. It can be because many people, when they get angry, are very selfish, and they’re not angry for a good reason. They’ve been disappointed. Their plan’s been thwarted. Somebody didn’t do what they wanted. Somebody who had no obligation to do what they wanted made them angry. They get angry because someone cut them off in traffic or something like that. Now, being angry can be justified, but often it’s not. Most human anger or wrath is what James calls the wrath of man that does not work the righteousness of God. Wrath of man would be simply my selfish anger that things haven’t gone my way or that somebody has irritated me. But then there’s also a righteous kind of an anger. God has that. God doesn’t sin and he’s got anger. Jesus got angry. The Bible says in the Gospel of Mark that when Jesus wanted to heal a man whose hand was withered, He knew the Pharisees were saying they’re wanting to accuse him of breaking the Sabbath if he would do it. And it says Jesus looked on them with anger, being grieved at the hardness of their hearts. And then he went ahead and healed the man and accepted their criticism for it. But he was angry at them because they didn’t want him to help this man on the Sabbath. So there are, I mean, God gets angry. Jesus gets angry. It’s hard to find anyone who doesn’t get angry. In fact, If we don’t get angry at anything, then we probably are apathetic. Because a great deal of injustice occurs in the world. A great deal of oppression against innocent people occurs. Many innocent people are killed because of injustice. Sometimes the laws are unjust. It makes us angry. Sometimes the laws are okay, but the people who break them are killing innocent people. I mean, almost every week we hear of a new case of someone on a subway or a university campus or somewhere who is innocent and they just got stabbed or shot or burned alive by some person who should not have been out. If that doesn’t make you angry, then I’m not really sure that we can’t just refer to you as apathetic. You know, you don’t care about the suffering of others. We should be, and we should be. And Jesus was angry at those who caused suffering for others, and God is. So the thing is, that’s not sinful to get angry. But what Paul says is, now you’ve got your anger, put it away. Don’t let the sun go down on it. In other words, don’t let it fester. Don’t let it define you. Don’t let it accumulate and fester and embitter you. Anger is simply an emotion that rightfully occurs at certain times. But being angry doesn’t solve anything. The wrath of man doesn’t work the righteousness of God, James said. So it doesn’t really solve anything to be angry, although it could motivate you to do something that would solve the problem. That’s the thing. Anger, I put it in the same class as fear. You know, over 300 and some odd times, the Bible says, do not fear. And yet, people do fear. And if they didn’t fear some things, they’d act very foolishly. If you didn’t fear traffic on the freeway, you might just blindfold yourself and walk across the freeway. In busy traffic, that’d be crazy. Fear of being killed by traffic is a good thing. It keeps you smart. It keeps you from doing really idiotic and harmful things. And by the way, animals also have both anger and fear, and they’re not sinners. They have no moral sense at all, but anger, you know, rouses them to defend themselves and their families. Fear also is a motivator to defend themselves or to flee. I mean, fear is a very good thing, and so is anger, if it… motivates you to do something that is appropriate. So, in a sense, fear and anger are motivators, and a person who’s angry at the right things will be motivated to stand up and to address them and seek to resolve them. Now, being angry about them won’t change them any, and fearing something won’t change outcomes either. If you’re afraid that something’s going to happen, Being afraid by itself isn’t going to prevent it from happening. You see, these are to motivate us to do things that are necessary, but not to dominate. If we’re walking around in fear or in anger, our spirits are darkened. We’re not dealing with anger and fear properly. When we have reasonable fear, that’s when we need to turn our trust to God and do something that’s obviously something to help alleviate the cause of that fear. Same thing with anger. So when Paul says, be angry, like I said, he’s quoting Psalm 4.4, but don’t sin. He explains what it means to not sin with your anger. Put it away. Don’t let the sun go down on it. Let your anger tell you there’s something to be done. There’s something wrong that needs to be redressed. And then resolve and plan to do whatever has to be done to redress it, but don’t just walk around feeling it because it’s a spiritual condition that is going to foul your spirit. It’s going to interfere with your joy and your peace and your love. So there’s a place for these things. Feeling fear instantly. I mean, if a tiger walked into this room, you know, I’d feel afraid. But it would motivate me to do something, flee or put something between me and it or do something, you know, protect my wife who’s also in the room. Fear is legitimate and so is anger. But you don’t want to keep it. You don’t want to keep it. You put it away eventually. You put it away before the sun goes down, Paul said. And that’s what I understand him to be teaching there.
SPEAKER 01 :
But Steve,
SPEAKER 04 :
Go ahead. Oh, but my question is, and I’ll just get off, but you mentioned something that I think is more theological. Like, for instance, you mentioned that it’s okay to have fear. So when Paul mentions this in Ephesians, he qualifies this emotion. as a part of the flesh. He does it in both Colossians, and he mentions both anger and wrath, and there are two different Greek words. So at least of Paul, Paul is, Paul, at least in the latter, in the Ephesians, when he mentions both anger and wrath in Colossians, he puts anger as part of the flesh. So I don’t see anywhere, at least anywhere, in the covenant of the Spirit where anger is a motivating factor. I don’t really want to go into the context of Jesus and God because we know that Jesus and God, within his personhood, he has the ability within his own attributes to be angry and it be justified at a particular aspect.
SPEAKER 02 :
We do too, and that’s why we’re told to be angry but not sin.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, but what I’m saying, Steve, is Paul, he qualifies anger as part of the flesh, right? You know what else?
SPEAKER 02 :
Hunger for food is part of the flesh, and a sex drive is part of the flesh. And hunger for food motivates us to eat when we need to. You know, a desire for sex may motivate us to reproduce, which we might not otherwise do. Now, those are not sins in themselves, but they can become sins. If we follow those things… and let them dominate our lives and make them, you know, the thing that we deify, then that is walking in the flesh. But the flesh has desires that are legitimate desires, too. And emotions are legitimate. But though they’re legitimate, it’s not legitimate to let them, you know, dominate us. You know, let them motivate us to do what’s right. But don’t let them dominate us.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. Well, that makes sense, and I appreciate everything you said. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER 02 :
All right, Gary. Good talking to you, man. Thanks for calling. Bye now. John from the state of Maine, welcome to the Neuropath.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yes, I’d like to ask you a few questions. First of all, sort of a follow-up to the first question in Bible prophecy. I don’t know if you’re a believer of the millennium or not. One. Two, who do you think the two witnesses will be? You know Elijah is going to be one of them. It says in Malachi. And do you think AI is part of the end times?
SPEAKER 02 :
There’s only three questions. Okay, let’s see. So one of them was, am I pre-mill? No, I’m not pre-mill. I’m on mill. Who are the two witnesses? I believe the two witnesses represent the church throughout the church age. I’m not a futurist when it comes to Revelation. I believe the Revelation is talking about things other than the end of the world. There’s four different views of Revelation, which I wrote a 600-page commentary on Revelation, showing the four views. I don’t hold the futurist view. So I’m not seeing the two witnesses as referring to someone in the future. I take the two witnesses in a way that the view of Revelation that I see it as is the idealist way. And I believe that they represent the church through the whole age of the church. And then your third question was, remind me. A.I. AI. Is it part of the end times? I don’t know. I mean, if we are in the end times, AI is certainly a part of it because it is here. I mean, but so are cars and computers and televisions and things like that. But does the Bible predict AI? No. No, there’s nothing high tech is mentioned in the Bible. There’s actually nothing. There’s no modern inventions mentioned in the Bible anywhere.
SPEAKER 06 :
Back when the Bible was written, it was probably only Christ knew about and God knew about AI and stuff like that. What’s going on now? Because back then they didn’t have cars or anything in the Bible.
SPEAKER 02 :
They didn’t even know about electricity.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, they didn’t have electricity. Okay, well, thank you very much, and have a wonderful day. Thank you, John.
SPEAKER 02 :
I appreciate your call. God bless you. Okay, Michael from Inglewood, California is next. Welcome to The Narrow Path.
SPEAKER 05 :
Hey, Steve. So I’m calling because I’ve been just learning a couple of new things, but I believe back in the day Jews were maybe 5 to 6 feet tall or something like that, just assuming. And then King Saul was maybe 6 to 7 feet tall, closer, I would say, maybe 7 feet. So my question is, I know the Masoretic text says Goliath was maybe 9’9 or 10 feet, and then I think it’s the Dead Sea Scrolls that says 6’9″. which would make him around the same height as Saul, but Saul wasn’t a giant. So isn’t this kind of discrepancy that would actually mean something?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, it would mean something, but nothing of great importance. I mean, Goliath was clearly a giant, which means he was extraordinarily tall compared to other people. Saul, you’re right, the Bible says he stood head and shoulders above the rest of Israel. I don’t know if that means… The second tallest man was literally only come up to his shoulders, or if it just means he was that much above the average height. But, yeah, I mean, I don’t know what the average height would be of his rights. People might have been shorter back then. I think they probably were because I think this last few generations, I have no statistics for this, but in the generations of people, I know it looks like people are getting a little taller, but I have no idea. I mean, it could change. They could have been five feet tall and Saul six feet tall and Goliath, you know, six, nine. But I think Goliath, you know, obviously some manuscripts do place Goliath’s height a lot shorter. The Masoretic text has him at nine and a half feet tall. You know, I don’t know which text has the accurate reading, but I would say that however tall Goliath was, he was a lot taller than the average person or else he would not have been regarded as a giant. And, by the way, if David was 4.5 feet tall and Goliath was 6.5 feet tall, that would still make the odds of him defeating Goliath similar to if David was 6 feet tall and Goliath was 9. So, I mean, I don’t know if everybody was shorter back then or not. Okay. Thanks, Steve. Okay. Okay. Yeah, we don’t have that kind of information, I don’t think. Thank you. Zachary from Lahaina, Hawaii. Excuse me, Maui.
SPEAKER 09 :
Hi.
SPEAKER 02 :
Please give us your question. Okay, he’s not really there. Okay, Zachary, I’m going to put you on hold for the moment, and I’ll come back to you because we have a break coming up, and I really can’t wait very long for you to give me your questions. So we’ve got a break coming up real quick, so let me just come back to you after the break. At the bottom of the hour, we take a break to let you know about our resources. We have a website, thenarrowpath.com, which is loaded with resources. Everything there is free. Over 1,500 lectures of mine, including lectures through the entire Bible, verse by verse, including many hundreds of topical lectures. including links to other incredible helpful websites and some other stuff. And everything there is free. And by the way, if you’re not familiar with our materials, many, many people who go there, they just swear by the value of the materials and often are astonished that they’re free. But that’s what we do. We just give stuff away. We don’t sell anything. And we don’t have any sponsors, which is why we don’t have any commercial breaks. But at the bottom of the hour, we feel like the audience needs to be told we are listener-supported and we offer everything we have for free, but it has to be paid for. So it is. It is paid for by donations from people like yourself, perhaps, who listen to the program and say, you know, I’d like for other people to hear this. I’d like for this to stay on the air. And then they support. And if you’d like to do that, you can. You can write to TheNarrowPath.com. P.O. Box 1730, Temecula, California, 92593. Or you can go to our website and donate from there at thenarrowpath.com. Now, it is the end of the year, as I think you probably have noticed. And the end of the year is the time when we’re always reassessing. what radio stations we’re going to remain on. You may not be aware we’re on over 80 stations across the country, and some of them we get phone calls from those areas and some we don’t. Some we get some support from those areas and some we don’t. We have to just see if we’re stewarding the funds in a good way. And if people do send from a certain area, Or call, even if they don’t send money. If they call from certain areas, we know that we’re reaching somebody there. So just so you know, we do look at that. Sometimes we’ll drop stations. Sometimes we’ll add stations, depending on what finances allow. But this is that time of year where we make those decisions. And, again, if you’d like to help us stay on the air, you can write to The Narrow Path, P.O. Box 1730, Temecula, California, 92593. or go to the website. And also, if you’re not aware, besides the website, all those resources at the website are available on our mobile app. You don’t get it from the App Store or from Google Play. You get it from a web-based app. Go on your web browser to thenarrowpath.app, and you’ll see how to download it. I’ll be back in 30 seconds. We have another half hour. Don’t go away.
SPEAKER 08 :
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SPEAKER 02 :
Welcome back to the Narrow Path Radio Broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg, and we’re live for another half hour. Our lines are full, but if you want to try to call a little later to get on, the number is 844-484-5737. Now, before the break, we attempted to talk to Zachary from Lahain, Hawaii, and he wasn’t on the line. Maybe he is now. We’ll check again. Zachary, are you there?
SPEAKER 07 :
Yes, I am, Steve.
SPEAKER 02 :
Welcome. Hey, thanks for calling.
SPEAKER 07 :
Hey, Steve. So my question here is, I have, how is it? I’m having trouble with my Jewish neighbors. I know the Bible says they are the chosen people. However, every time this time of the year when you have all these stories about Jesus and his crucifixion and all these things coming up, right now it’s hitting home a little bit more because I’m in close proximity with Orthodox Jews who do not believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah. First conversation I had with them, you know, they called me a black femur, all these things that Jesus was called. And I’m just thinking, you know, how hard is it for Christian Jews in Israel right now? How can I support a nation that doesn’t support its own Messiah? That’s my major question. I’m having a hard time right now.
SPEAKER 02 :
All right. Well, first of all, To say you’re having trouble with your Jewish neighbors, I hope the only trouble you’re having is that they’re not agreeing with you and that they’re just speaking evil of what you believe, because that’s, of course, any person, Jewish or not, who’s atheistic or who belongs to some other religion, a Muslim, a Buddhist, a Jew, a Hindu, you’ll find disagreements with them. I hope, you know, they don’t all have to be ornery, but they may be. And if they’re not Christians, they don’t have the same, we don’t hold them to the same standard we hold Christians to. Christians have to be kind and patient and gentle. But, you know, other religions apparently don’t require their people to be. So if you get some, you know, bad manners or rudeness from people because they’re not Christians, just realize that comes with their not being Christians. I don’t think there’s anything special about, involved in dealing with Jewish people who don’t believe. That wouldn’t apply to, let’s just say, stubborn people of other beliefs, no matter what their beliefs are. Paul did indicate in 2 Corinthians 3 that Jews who don’t know Jesus do not understand Jesus. their own scriptures well. And he said there’s a veil over their mind. He says in verse 14 of 2 Corinthians 3, 14, he says, there, meaning the Jewish peoples who don’t receive Christ, their minds were hardened until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament because the veil is taken away in Christ. But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. Nevertheless, when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now, he’s talking specifically about Jewish people who read the Old Testament, but he says they can’t understand it. They can’t see that Christ is the Messiah. They can’t understand the nature of the fulfillment of the promises God made to them because they He says there’s a veil over their hearts. They can’t see it. Now, you know, I don’t know what you can do to remove that. You can pray for that. But that’s what the Bible says. Now, I will say this. I mean, if they, you know, whatever, vandalize your Christmas decorations or something like that, then they’re just breaking the laws. But you may have to just forgive them and wait for Christmas to get over it and maybe they’ll cool down. The thing is that I don’t think Jews are any worse than anyone else about that. But sometimes they may be because a Muslim, actually Muslims have a very high view of Jesus. They don’t believe he’s the son of God. You know, they don’t believe what we believe about Jesus. But they do think, the Muslims believe that Jesus was a great prophet. Most Jews do not think such positive things about him. They often, in the Talmud, they have lots of very negative things to say about Jesus. So their religion sees Jesus as a defector. And that’s why they call you a blasphemer. And they think he was a blasphemer. Yeah, what do you do with people like that? Well, be kind to them. In fact… I just think that that’s a test to you, a test of your Christian charity and your grace when people behave that way. Paul said over in 2 Timothy 2, and this would have to do with your dealing with these Jewish people who don’t believe. He says in 2 Timothy 2, 24-26, A servant of the Lord must not quarrel, but be gentle to all, able to teach. So Paul’s saying, you know, the people who are in opposition to you as a Christian, they’re captives. They’ve been taken captive by the devil. You need to see them as, you know, prisoners of war, not the enemy. People are not the enemy. Our weapons of our warfare are not against human beings. We don’t wrestle against human beings, but against principalities and powers and demonic forces and so forth. So the people that seem like enemies to us, who act like enemies, they aren’t really the enemy. They’re the prisoners of war. We approach them because we have compassion on them. Sometimes a drowning man. If you swim out to him to try to save him, he’ll practically drown you unless you know what you’re doing. You know, he’s so desperate and splashing about. Or maybe somebody you’re trying to help, let’s just say someone who’s a drug addict and you want to intervene, you know, they see you as the enemy because they don’t want to be delivered. I mean, lots of times you’re trying to help somebody and they see you as the enemy and they act like you’re the enemy. But you have to see them clearly. They’re somebody in need of help. They’re somebody who is a prisoner of something. And in this case, they’re the prisoners of Satan, Paul said. So you be gentle. You be patient toward them. Now, what’s it like to be a Messianic Jew in Israel, you ask? I don’t know. I’ve never been one. I do know that Israel in general is a country that is not favorable toward Christianity. But I don’t know to what degree they tolerate Christianity. Jews who become Christians, I suppose, I mean, they are tolerated. I don’t know to what degree they’re treated badly, but I’m not over there, and so I can’t tell you. If you say, how can I support a country that doesn’t receive Christ? Well, I don’t know if we support a number of countries that are our allies. I suppose there’s quite a few countries that we support in general, but We might not have loyalty to them. In fact, we should have no loyalty to any country other than the kingdom of God. We are ambassadors here on this planet. We’re strangers and pilgrims here. We happen to be domiciled in America, and I think America is a very good place to be, and therefore we should be very grateful for it and supportive of it. After all, we are born here and citizens of it and benefit from it. But, you know, apart from our own country, deciding which other countries we’re going to support, We’ll have to be based on, I suppose, things like justice. Are they doing justice? Political factors, I suppose, alliances. But, yeah, I mean, if you support Israel, that doesn’t mean that you’re saying they are right in the sight of God any more than if we supported, let’s say, Germany or England or Holland. We’re not saying that these countries are on good terms with God, right? And if somebody’s telling you you should support Israel on terms other than those, then I disagree. I don’t think we’re obligated to support Israel, except insofar as we support any other country that’s an ally, and we only support them when they do what’s right, not when they do what’s wrong. So you had a lot of questions in there. I hope I’ve addressed all of them. I appreciate your call. Okay, we’re going to talk next to Rayma from Michigan. Rayma, welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling.
SPEAKER 03 :
Hi, Steve. Can you hear me?
SPEAKER 02 :
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 03 :
There’s a TV show called Living Biblically. I’ve never heard of it, but it’s free on the Tubi app, and it’s very animated. It only lasted one season, but the entire episode is about trying to live your life literally by the Bible. So I wanted to know your opinion of how do you handle people who like to quote scriptures literally? And I ask that because there’s a social media conversation about women being silent in the church. And I’m not into arguing with strangers on social media, but this one gentleman just, of course, you kept quoting Timothy in the Corinthian scripture. It’s there in the Bible, Rayma, so take it up with God if you don’t believe it. However, one gentleman actually mentions, Mary Magdalene was the first person that saw Jesus after the coming out of the resurrection, and he said, go and teach my word. So I was impressed with that. So how would you handle individuals who just literally quote the Bible per Scripture? I mean, Leviticus 19.19 says you shouldn’t wear two fabrics at the same time. Okay, I have not seen this show that you’re describing.
SPEAKER 02 :
I know there was a book written some years ago called A Year of Living Biblically. And I don’t know what its content was. Sometimes non-Christians will kind of try to mock the Bible by saying, you know, I decided to live according to what the Bible says. And they’ll look at the strangest things the Old Testament commanded Israel to do and say, I tried to do that and it didn’t work out well or whatever. But living biblically is a good idea. The problem is Living biblically doesn’t mean you take everything literally. It means you take things literally which are written to be taken literally. And you take things figuratively which are written to be taken figuratively. You take things symbolically which are written to be taken symbolically. You take things as parables that are written to be parables. And poems that are written as poetry. I mean, the Bible isn’t just a book of literal instructions about everything in life. There are parts of it that are. But there’s tons of things in the Bible that are not. Now, when it comes to what Paul said about women, those are to be taken, I think, literally, except we have to understand context. Because Paul’s instructions to the Corinthians or to the Ephesians and Timothy, you know, they may or may not be applicable beyond the context that they were talking to. Because Paul didn’t write any letters to the church directly. in the 21st century. He wrote letters to churches in his own time, but what he wrote to them is authoritative, and as a Christian living in the 21st century, I want to understand what Paul meant, and then I want to apply it now, because I believe that Paul, as an apostle of Christ, or any other writer of the New Testament, as an apostle of Christ, or the words of Jesus himself, are words that are things that direct our lives and direct church life, or at least supposed to. But there are things that, you know, when Paul says, greet one another with a holy kiss, which he probably says at least half a dozen times in different epistles, I realize that’s a cultural thing. You know, there’s lots of things like that, but many things are not. And so what is necessary if you’re going to live biblically is to study the Bible carefully. And recognize what Paul said to, say, the Corinthians or the Thessalonians or the Galatians or the Ephesians, which have a universal application to Christians of all time, including ourselves in our time. And also what things he’s saying that are kind of just a cultural accommodation to those people at that time, because he’s only writing to them in his own mind. He was not writing to anyone except those people that he addressed in his epistles. These are actual letters. Like when you write a letter to somebody, you’re thinking of the person you’re writing to and saying things to them that you might not say to everybody. And so, you know, when it comes to the epistles, and that’s what you guys are talking about there online, or the teaching of Jesus, We need to ask, okay, what does this mean? What did it mean to them? What was the point he’s trying to make to them? What principle was he trying to maintain? What circumstances in the modern church would be parallel to those? And, therefore, what would be the best understanding of how to apply those things to us now? So, I mean, people can quote scriptures all the time. Like you said, don’t wear cloth clothes. that’s made from wool and from cotton. Don’t boil a baby goat in its mother’s milk. That’s a repeated law three times. There’s things in the law that were relevant to their culture and so forth at the time. When Paul said, greet one another with a holy kiss, I think everybody in the Mediterranean world, Christian or not, greeted one another with a kiss. So he just said, well… Give them a holy kiss or give them a holy hug, we might say, or something like that. So, I mean, the question is how do we translate the cultural statements into things universal? And then we find ways to apply those universal truths to the church now. If somebody says, I just go by what the Bible says literally, every word, they probably do not. Jesus said when you bring your lamb to the altar, when you bring your sacrifice to the altar to sacrifice it, If you remember then that somebody has something against you, you leave the lamb there, leave the gift, go and make peace with your brother, then come offer the lamb. Now, I’ve never taken a lamb to a temple to offer it as a sacrifice. I never will. But is there anything there that applies to me? Of course. He’s describing the way people in his day worshipped God at the temple and saying that if you’re going to worship God, make sure you’ve gotten things right between you and other people first. Because God prioritizes that. Now, of course, he didn’t say it in those words, but that’s the lesson he was saying. But if I took it literally, I’d have to say, well, I need to make things right with my brother, and I have to go offer a lamb in a temple, because Jesus said so. Well, in their setting, in that culture, to those people. Those were instructions that you could take literally. You can’t today because there’s not a temple anywhere to do that at. So, again, do we live biblically? I think I do. I make every effort to do so. But that doesn’t mean I don’t. use discretion in understanding how the instructions of Scripture were intended for the people at the time and how I can observe the same principles that were God’s concern in the matter in modern times. So, you know, when you’re dealing on some kind of a chat online and everybody’s involved in how to follow Scripture, you’re going to get thousands of opinions. But, you know, what you do in a world with thousands of opinions… is read your Bible, study your Bible, and do what you can to understand what the concepts are that God’s trying to get into your head and do it. All right? Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Sister. Let’s talk to Ann in San Diego, California. Ann, welcome to The Narrow Path.
SPEAKER 12 :
Hi there, Steve. Can you hear me okay?
SPEAKER 02 :
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 12 :
Great. So I just stumbled upon your show like a week ago. And I’ve been listening on the way home from work every day. And I just want to, first of all, just quickly thank you. And it’s just an excellent show. And I really enjoy your biblical and theological explanations. Very helpful. Thank you. You’re welcome. And here’s my comment. Last week you had mentioned, forgive me, I’m driving, so I don’t have my Bible or my Bible resources with me. The scripture, I think it’s in Corinthians, he who knew no sin became sin for us.
SPEAKER 10 :
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 12 :
Believe that, Corinthians? So I just wanted to make a comment on that as far as the knowledge I have on it and then get your explanation.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay. By the way, that’s 2 Corinthians 5.21. Go ahead.
SPEAKER 12 :
Oh, thank you. 2 Corinthians 5.21. Beautiful. So my understanding is that that’s not the best… translation in the English. So again, I don’t have my resources in front of me, but my understanding is first in the Greek and then to the Hebrew, the phrase, okay, so he who knew no sin became sin for us. So the point I want to make is Jesus, I would put forth, Jesus never became sin. He’s sinless, always sinless, eternally pure Lamb of God, second person of the Trinity. The My understanding is the Greek draws from the Hebrew and is drawing on the categories of sacrifice from the temple. I think there was like seven or nine basic categories. And, you know, the grain offering, the burnt offering, and then there was the sin offering. And so actually what St. Paul is saying, there is he who knew no sin became sin. the sin offering for us.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, that’s been suggested by many commentators. In fact, I could have said it actually more briefly, and we’re almost at the end of the show, so I had to jump in here. Yeah, the word sin, it’s the regular word for sin in the Greek, but in the Septuagint, the term sin sometimes stands in for the sin offering, because there are different, there’s five kinds of offerings in Leviticus, and The sin offering is one of them, and sometimes the word sin is used to mean the sin offering, though not usually. Now, that’s true also in the New Testament. Actually, I don’t know of any time in the New Testament where sin literally can be proven to mean sin offering, but it’s possible. Certainly, the majority of the time in the New Testament, the Greek word for sin means sin. But there are some who think that this statement of Paul would make more sense if the second occurrence of the word sin is being used in the sense that it’s sometimes used in the Septuagint to mean a sin offering. So, yeah, so instead of saying he who knew no sin became sin. Paul would be saying he who knew no sin became a sin offering. And that’s entirely possible. I’m not going to say that’s wrong or right. It certainly is a possibility. It’d be unusual. In fact, it’d be, I think, unique in the New Testament. I don’t think there’s any place in the New Testament elsewhere where the word sin is used in that sense of the sin offering. But it’s not an impossibility. So I’m going to allow that your suggestion could be true. But when you say Jesus did not become sin, yeah, right. What I believe is at least a real possibility is is that when Paul said he became sin, it meant he took on our sin to the point where the consequences due to sin were brought upon him. And that would be kind of an idea that seems to be present in the sacrificial system in the Old Testament, that the animal that was innocent took on, as it were, the sinfulness symbolically, not in reality, but sinfully. or symbolically took on the sinfulness of the worshiper and then died in its place. And so there’s a sense in which the animal, once it had hands laid upon it and the sins were confessed over it, was treated as if it were sin itself or as the sinner. Now, some people think that’s what this is talking about, and it could be. So we’re looking at something where the wording could go either way. I mean, Jesus could be, you know, he took on our sin, and was identified with it to the point where his death was our death as sinners. Or, as you suggested, it could be true. It could be saying he became a sin offering for us. So that can’t really be decided from the Greek itself. It is simply one of the ways the Greek has been understood by some commentators, and others have seen it another way. But thank you for your call. Anonymous in Idaho, welcome to the Narrow Path. Thanks for calling.
SPEAKER 01 :
I have a question. It probably takes more time than what we have.
SPEAKER 02 :
Want to call tomorrow instead?
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, that’d be fine. I’ll call tomorrow.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay, great. I’ll take another question that we could get to today. Let’s see. Kay in California. Welcome to the Narrow Path.
SPEAKER 11 :
Thank you. I heard a radio preacher say Jesus is… observed Hanukkah. And I don’t know where that verse is. And the second part is, which days are Hanukkah this year?
SPEAKER 02 :
Hanukkah actually started a couple days ago, I think. I don’t remember the exact date because I don’t keep track of the Jewish calendar, but I did hear, heard on the radio a couple days ago that it was the first day of Hanukkah. So it must be… It must be going on right now. I’ve been occupied with other things, not paying attention. But, yeah, Jesus did, in fact, well, we don’t know if he observed Hanukkah, but we do know that he was in Jerusalem at Hanukkah in John’s Gospel, John 10, 22. Oh, okay, my wife just handed me a note. It says December 14th through 22nd is Hanukkah this year. So December 14th through 22nd.
SPEAKER 11 :
Thank you.
SPEAKER 02 :
And John 10.22? Yeah, John 10.22, it refers to the Feast of Dedication. It says, Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter, and Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon’s Park. Now, it doesn’t tell us he was observing the festival, though he probably was. There’s no reason why he shouldn’t or wouldn’t. But Jesus, you know, being in Jerusalem at that time, may or may not have been. because you could celebrate Hanukkah somewhere else. You didn’t have to be in Jerusalem. It may be just a notation of telling us what time of year it was that this story occurred. But the Feast of Dedication is the term used for the Feast of Hanukkah. Hanukkah commemorates the rededication of the temple after the victory of the Maccabees, when the temple had been defiled by Antiochus Epiphanes back in 168 or so B.C., when he sacrificed a pig on an altar in the temple to Zeus. And the temple was defiled. There was a big rebellion. The Maccabeans had a big war and conquered the invader and rededicated the temple. And that’s what Hanukkah commemorates. And, yeah, Jesus was there in Jerusalem. He probably was celebrating it, but we’re not told specifically that he was there to celebrate the feast.
SPEAKER 11 :
Oh, good. I hadn’t seen the connection. Thank you.
SPEAKER 02 :
All right, thanks for your call. Jasmine in Jackson, Ohio, we don’t have much time, kind of a few minutes. Do you have any good? Go ahead.
SPEAKER 13 :
Yeah, I can try. Go ahead. So thanks for what you do. I appreciate that. I just wanted to ask you, if we sat down at lunch together and you were going to share the gospel with me like it’s the first time I ever heard it, how would that look? What would you say to me?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, if you’ve never heard anything about the gospel or Jesus, I’d have to introduce you to Jesus in some way. You know, God sent his son. He came to earth. He lived among us. He healed the sick. He did miracles. He cast out demons. He proved himself to be the Messiah. He fulfilled many prophecies that the Old Testament had predicted about the Messiah, which is why we know that he was the Messiah, in addition to the things he did. and that he gave himself for our sins. He surrendered to the Romans when he didn’t need to, so that he’d be crucified for our sins, and yet he rose again on the third day. And all of this was part of God’s plan to deal with and eliminate the barrier of sin that kept us from being able to be on good terms with God. And More importantly, he ascended to heaven, sat down at the reign of God, and ever since that time, he’s been reigning. He said all authority in heaven and earth have been given to him, meaning God made him the ruler of everything, which means that for us, he’s our ruler too. He’s the ruler of everything in the universe. That includes us, and if we’re not following him, then we are resisting his rulership. That is, if we’re living for ourselves, that’s what sin is. Sin is living for ourselves for the most part. And, you know, we need to stop doing that. We need to repent of that and need to surrender to his affording lordship over our lives and follow him the rest of our lives. And he’ll give us eternal life, but we’ll also receive an assignment. and that is to serve him and to spread his kingdom throughout the world for the rest of our lives. That’s a 30-second nutshell version. I’m sorry I’m out of time. I’ve got to go, but I hope that helps you. I have a book called Empire of the Risen Son. In fact, it’s two books, book one and two, that you might be interested in. It talks about those things. Our website is thenarrowpath.com. Thanks for joining us.
