This episode dives into the essence of reconciliation and forgiveness, drawing on biblical narratives such as the journeys of Moses and the struggles of Adam and Eve. Kimberly stresses the importance of understanding how God’s higher ways can help heal broken relationships. Through enlightening stories and introspective dialogue, the hosts encourage listeners to seek reconciliation and cultivate patience, highlighting the transformative power of grace.
Welcome to Call to Freedom with Barbara Carmack. This is Jimmy Lakey, and I’m delighted that you are joining us for this half hour. You can reach Call to Freedom at Box 370367, Denver, Colorado, 80237, or by going to the website at www.freedomstreet.org. If you want to leave a message or order a Word Power Daily Reading Bible Guide or a Freedom Street Express newsletter, you can call us toll free at 1-877-917-7256 and leave your name and address, including your zip code. If you want to talk to Barbara right now, she is expecting your call. You may call that same toll-free number, 1-877-917-7256 to speak to her. And now, let’s join Barbara in the studio.
SPEAKER 02 :
Welcome to called a freedom. I’m so glad you joined me today. I want to tell you that God’s love is the most powerful life changing force on earth and in you and in you. Yes. And may you allow it to flow freely through you today because you’ve got a love in you that the world does not know of. And I know that Jesus would be so absolutely joyous and overflowing knowing that his body, we’re part of that body, his body would be teaching the world really how to love. through God. It’s not how the world loves. Jesus gave that same thing in John 14, verse 27. My peace I give to you, not like the world gives. And it’s the same way with joy. He gives us a joy and a peace that the world cannot give us. Do not be afraid. Do not be fearful. Oh, it’s so wonderful to know him. I loved what Kimberly said on the slate right before the program. She said, be still and make knowing him your top priority. That’s so good. Be still and know that he is God. Know him. That’s from Psalm 46, verse 10. Oh, you are blessed to dispense for in him you live and move and have your being. Yesterday after the show, I was so hungry for potatoes. It must be that St. Patrick’s Day is coming up. You know, the Irish people are known for their potatoes, and so are the Germans. And so I went home, I peeled some potatoes, I sliced them really thin, and then I sliced some onion really thin and just had it all cooking and frying in wonderful olive oil. It was delicious. And so I got my potatoes. I’ll probably have more this weekend right before St. Patrick’s Day. Our verse this week has been Isaiah 55, verse 9. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways. and my thoughts than your thoughts. Welcome to the program, Kimberly. I’m so glad you could join us again today. You’ve got so much to talk about and to say.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, and it ties right in with that scripture. I’m so thankful that you are repeating that over and over this week because truly God’s ways are higher than our ways. And sometimes we say that we’ve got it memorized, but we don’t see exactly what it means. And because he is God and very intangible, a lot of the time in our lives, you know, he doesn’t make sense to us. We can’t feel him, can’t see him, can’t hear him in the normal ways that we can see and feel and hear this world around us, the flowers, the birds, the table in front of me. And so it’s hard to trust that his ways are higher because we just can’t see him.
SPEAKER 05 :
That’s right.
SPEAKER 03 :
So what does that look like when we say that His ways are higher than our ways? And I’ve been reading the creation story over and over, Genesis 1 and 2 and 3, and just looking at everything in there. Everything God made because He wants us in His life. He wants us. He conceived us in His thoughts. You know, it’s like when you have a conception plan going on for business or some new invention. You’ve got this conception in your mind. God conceived us. He had a conception of us in His mind, and He decided… I love this so much, I don’t want to live without it. And it’s like when you have those stories, those love stories or movies or books or whatever, where you hear the man say, oh, I can’t live without you. Well, you kind of hope that he can live without you. I mean, you hope that he can do his own dishes and do his own laundry and that he can walk and feed himself, right? You want him to be able to actually live, live life without you, But what he really means is now that I’ve met you, now that I’ve seen you, I don’t want to live without you. Yes, that’s right. I want to live with you. I need you in my life. So here’s God with this vision of us that’s so beautiful that he wants us. So he creates us. all of this universe and everything in this earth for us so that we could be introduced into his into his realm, into his circle and created in his image. So What what went wrong? Something went wrong because this world is really broken and there is a lot of pain. I was talking with a friend who had a massage done. And so often we are all pouring ourselves out for work to earn money, to take care of others. There are a lot of people in this world that do need taking care of. And we pour ourselves out and then we don’t pay attention to ourselves and we don’t minister to our bodies. We don’t give ourselves just a nice warm bath or whatever it is that we might need. And my sweet friend, she had a massage and she just started weeping and she couldn’t stop crying as she was getting this massage. And she was saying, I’m so sorry. But the therapist said, no, this happens all the time. This is good. Really? Oh, wow. And there are certain areas of our muscles that hold grief. And we don’t even realize that that grief has settled into us. And trying to shake loose of that grief and move on in this life in joy. What does that look like and how do we do it? Yeah, you mentioned Adam and Eve. They started entertaining thoughts of something different than what God said. They started looking at fruit and they thought that fruit would make them happier. They looked at how good the fruit, maybe the color of it, the shape of it. Maybe it had a fragrance too. Maybe it smelled really good. So they started using their senses and then forming opinions. and forming their own judgments. And they must have wondered, okay, well now, how would it taste? They essentially made the decision to say, God, not your will, because God gave them the rule in genesis 2 17 and 18 we were talking about that yesterday he said you know here’s the rule don’t eat of that tree i’m putting you in this whole garden hundreds maybe thousands of trees and bushes and roots that you could dig up lettuces you know just so many things to eat from but just don’t eat of that tree because in the day that you do eat of it You know, God already knew. I’m going to tell you not to because I want you to know my will in this. But you’re going to because you’ll try to make sense of this. And I know you’re going to eat of it in the day that you do. You will surely die. They didn’t die physically, but they did die in their relationship to him. Yes. And that that was the. the end of their joy. It’s been human nature to try to find joy ever since. And it is the joy of the Lord to be in relationship. That’s his ways that are higher than our ways. We get caught up in the processes of what to do in this life. and how to obey the rules, how to do the next step to be educated, and how to do our job properly, and how to do a parenting role. We get caught up. in the doing and we forget that we were made to be human beings to be with him and to be in fellowship and to be in communion and to be in friendship and that is exactly what god meant when he wanted us to be still and know that he is god that’s right yes
SPEAKER 02 :
Today I was reading from, excuse me, I just want to do a little sidebar here. This morning I was reading from Numbers 20. And it’s when Moses, they buried Miriam and Moses and Aaron are there with the people. And the people couldn’t get, they couldn’t find drinking water. Now he had already provided water once God had provided by Moses striking the rock and And so the people were just complaining and complaining, and they blamed Moses. If only we had died in his presence. And why have you brought the congregation here? Why did you make us leave Egypt? And why has this land no grain, no figs, no grapes, no pomegranates, no water to drink? I mean, they were negative, negative. And God said, I want you to provide water again. because they went on their faces in the tent, Moses and Aaron. And he says, you must take the staff and assemble the entire community. And as the people watch, speak to the rock over there and I will pour it out its water. Well, Kimberly, Sometimes the people get us so distracted from our focus on God that we turn our heads just a slight bit, just a slight little bit. And Moses was so angry with the people. Instead of obeying God, he struck the rock again instead of speaking to it. And it was a time when God said, OK, I’m sorry, but you didn’t obey me and you’re not going into the promised land. And God was a God so merciful, Kimberly, that no, Moses didn’t go into the promised land. But then in Mark 9, he was with Elijah on the Mount of Transfiguration right there with Jesus. I mean, right there in the company. of the messiah the son of god so we we can’t let people distract us or the words distract us from the world we’ve got to stay keep our focus be still be still and know that i am god absolutely
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, yeah. In Hebrew writings and tradition, they notice that Moses’ body was never found. And so he’s considered to be one of the great ones that possibly just ascended right off of this planet, right into heaven. I like thinking about it that way. I can’t prove it one way or the other. No one can. But I like to think about it that way because we break the rules. We disobey and we dishonor. That is human nature that was built right into us, into our senses. and after a while you start wondering well then what is the point of and and i’m not trying to advocate that we all need to just break the rules that’s not what i’m saying but but what is the point of the rules and then breaking them all the time and what are we what are we going to do with that Well, God is constantly, continually inviting us and wooing us to come back, come back into friendship, come back into relationship. Don’t let the regret… or the condemnation, the guilt that you feel. Don’t let it take over so that you are then hiding and avoiding and withdrawing from him. You’re also pointing fingers and blaming others and trying to get others to take the weight of the mistake. um that’s the human nature that’s the human condition now god himself is showing us in this creation account how he was gently and kindly asking questions to get adam and eve to admit to actually repent and return in their speech to him but they weren’t ready for that they weren’t mature enough for it and they they just weren’t able to enter back in and they they They held on tightly to the decision that they had made that, well, I did it because of her. Well, I did it because of the snake. Oh, I did it. And so the blaming starts happening. And they don’t truly come face to face back and return and say, you know what? I did do this. I wish I hadn’t. I don’t like how this feels. And they weren’t even able to come to him in their nakedness. They felt so much shame. They weren’t able to come to him. That’s when the break in the relationship happens. And I know that there are a lot of parents who have been inflexible with their children’s behavior. So when that child crosses the line, then often the parent responds by disconnecting and they tell them they’ve got to move out. or there’s some kind of major punishment that happens. It’s not just a consequence, it’s a punishment. And there are so many relationships that have never come back together, never been reconciled. God is longing for reconciliation. He has given us the ministry of reconciliation. And that is the point of having those rules. Because we’re never going to, as human beings, we’re never going to get to that place in our human nature without his help. We’re never going to get to that place where we can obey all the rules.
SPEAKER 02 :
That’s right. Yes.
SPEAKER 03 :
So these relationships that break, it happens all the time with coworkers, with church members, with siblings in marriages. It happens where the relationships break. And for many years, then, um, There’s a disconnect. Now, therapy and counseling have focused on having healthy boundaries with each other, and I know that some of that is necessary, but what if there is a different goal that we need to look at? And I think it has everything to do with what our response is in the middle of the brokenness. Because God’s response is mercy. It’s grace. It’s kindness. It’s patience. Just like you were talking about the people in the wilderness. How patient. God has over and over in that wilderness story provided miracle after miracle, and he is so patient to stay with them and say, okay, you need more water? Okay, I’ll provide more water. You need more meat? Okay, I’ll provide more meat. So patient and so kind. You know, when relationships do break, in all the years that I’ve talked to other people about broken relationships, I’ve noticed there’s always some kind of regret. There’s always a form of missing that other person or longing for that other person. Even when it might have been the healthiest choice to let that relationship go, there seems to be some quality in the other person that is missed. So what if we could start prioritizing relationships the way God does and stay with someone even when they make poor decisions? Now, I realize that that’s not always possible because there are those who take advantage. There are some people who just take advantage. But I believe the Lord’s priority to reconcile is so much higher than ours. And we want to spend time with what is important to him. Matthew was telling me about a customer who filed a claim on her engine repair. She’s been a faithful user of BG products, and now she’s experiencing some mechanical issues, and that’s covered under BG’s warranty. So she has put in a claim, but the service writers and the technicians who keep her records at the dealership She has made them very angry. She has done some things with them and made life hard on them. And so they really don’t like her. And they’re actually trying to fabricate information so that she won’t be able to cash in on the warranty.
SPEAKER 02 :
Oh, no.
SPEAKER 03 :
And to have her repairs done. Yeah. In their eyes, she doesn’t deserve it. Well, there it is. She’s treated them poorly, so now they want to treat her poorly. That’s the human condition. That’s what we normally do.
SPEAKER 02 :
What a dilemma we have here.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 02 :
Oh, my goodness.
SPEAKER 03 :
And so we all have that tendency to judge whether or not someone deserves grace. But when we put our focus on how much grace God continues and continues to pour out on us, wave after wave after wave of mercy and grace and provision and patience and kindness. When we choose to see that, then we see his ways that are so much higher than ours. And learning to let go of what someone else did, forgive them. Don’t let resentment and bitterness cause you to make a poor decision just because they made poor decisions. We don’t want that. That’s right. Jesus shows us a better example when he is in the garden. Now, remember, Adam and Eve were in the garden. So the first Adam, the first human really messed up. Jesus came, God in the flesh, to show us how a human can do it. And in the garden of Gethsemane, Jesus wasn’t just faced with a piece of fruit. He was faced with being betrayed and being sentenced, leading to a crucifixion that was just ugly and awful and shaming. You know, the ones that we watch on television or in a theatrical play, they always have some form of clothing on the man that’s on the cross. But it says he was stripped naked. Yes, he was.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 03 :
Adam and Eve realized they were naked. And when they realized they were naked, there was some shame that came with the decision they made to not be in unity, to not be in agreement with God. So shame came and they hid themselves. Jesus decided to fight against that shame, the feeling of shame, and to go through with what was put in front of him to actually say, not my will, but yours be done. When Adam and Eve had said, not your will, God, mine be done. Yes. And that is how we need to choose to respond. Jesus took it all the way to the very worst treatment a human being could ever go through. Yes. And he trusted that Father God would… help it turn out all right. Father God is the one on the throne. He resurrects, He restores, and He protects. There are times that we go through things on this planet where God is shielding and protecting us from what’s coming at us. We just need to learn to be able to see it and give Him more credit. His ways are higher than our ways. So instead of avoiding, instead of trying to get out of it, just saying, not my will, but yours be done, instead of blaming other people and letting them take the fall for us, You know, blame and avoiding those seem to be the biggest consequences of the fall that the human condition that we are all left to that we default to is to avoid a situation, hide from it or blame and not really just come out and say, how can we reconcile? I really want a bridge here.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes. Now, sometimes it’s impossible from the other side when you’re trying… Take, for instance, a parent that wants a child to be reconciled with a child. But if we focus on God first, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and finisher, and we truly concentrate on him and ask the Father God to help us to get through this situation, which with much healing and peace and joy… If it is possible, Kimberly, God is going to do everything that he can and Holy Spirit also to bring reconciliation. But sometimes human reconciling is not possible. And I’ve known it myself, you know, from being married to Darren. I’ve known that. So we just give it into God’s hands. We let him take over. Yes. Yes. It’s very difficult.
SPEAKER 03 :
I think it’s the heart condition. It’s making sure that we’re not holding on to unforgiveness in it. Yes. It’s making sure we’re not holding on to some kind of resentment or bitterness. And we all know what that feels like to not be able to forgive someone because they’ve done something that really hurt us. But here is Jesus’ example. When we put our faith in him, that means we want our heart to change. And we recognize that it looks so impossible, it feels impossible. When you feel unforgiveness, it feels impossible to let go of it. I know that from my own experience. When you are faced with a situation that is so hurtful, It’s easy to hold on to unforgiveness. But God’s ways are higher than ours. He is teaching us, I can forgive. And if you ask me, I can help you forgive.
SPEAKER 02 :
Sometimes the relationships, and I have to look at some people that I have actually seen in my own life, they take, for instance, parents with children again, because that’s really a very common thing when the children are alienated from the parents. The parents are expecting the children to behave like they want the children to behave. And Kimberly, that has to maybe be taken away in the parents thinking and their thought process of how children should act. God does some new things. He’s not doing things the way he used to. And we need to come to God and ask him to make the children or make us an example of that forgiveness. Exactly. Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER 03 :
because that’s what he is. He’s the example of forgiveness. He’s the example of grace, of mercy. He is the example of patience, of generosity, even when his children have made horrid mistakes and grumbled and complained. He is the example of true love and true peace. So he’s asking us to become that example too, to still be in fellowship, in communion, with Him and with others to be still and know that He is God. It’s a flip on the words, to still be and to be still. It’s the same meaning.
SPEAKER 02 :
That’s right. It’s good. That’s good. It’s wonderful to receive revelation from Holy Spirit working on the same scriptures we’ve been reading for years, Kimberly. And yet there is a new concept that comes forth from those same scriptures. I love what Holy Spirit’s doing in this last day and age. And I appreciate so much. You’re giving us wonderful, wonderful revelation of these scriptures that we’ve read for years, for years and years.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, thank you, Jesus, for your example to us. And thank you for making us. Right. With you and with Father God, you have made us right and you have made all things right. And we give you all the glory for that.
SPEAKER 02 :
Thank you, Jesus. Oh, thank you. Thank you, Kimberly. And thank you, listeners. You’ve been so wonderful. You’ve given above what you should have been giving and you’re still increasing and God is rewarding you. God bless you and take joy.
SPEAKER 1 :
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SPEAKER 01 :
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