In this episode of Washington Watch, host Tony Perkins dives into the high-stakes political atmosphere in Washington, D.C., following President Trump’s visit to Capitol Hill. With compelling insights from figures like Congressman Andrew Clyde, listeners are taken beyond the headlines into the strategizing and nuanced negotiations behind the president’s bill. From standing ovations to the challenges of uniting GOP support, the episode offers a detailed look at the current political climate.
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from the heart of our nation’s capital in Washington, D.C., bringing compelling interviews, insightful analysis, taking you beyond the headlines and soundbites into conversations with our nation’s leaders and newsmakers, all from a biblical worldview.
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Washington Watch with Tony Perkins starts now. We’re on the verge of making history here, and everybody feels it. In that room today with President Trump, it was filled with standing ovations and high energy and high excitement because everybody senses what’s happening here. It was a great esprit de corps, and we’re blessed to serve under and with a president who understands the necessity of these relationships and is willing to roll his sleeves up and come stand in the trenches to be a part of this excitement of what’s happening.
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I was on speaker Mike Johnson earlier today after President Trump made a trip to Capitol Hill this morning to meet with Republicans and rally support for his one big beautiful bill. Did it work? We’ll find out. Welcome to this May 20th edition of Washington Watch. I’m Tony Perkins. Thanks for tuning in. Well, following the president’s visit to the Hill, there still does not appear to be the votes to pass the measure. House Freedom Caucus Chairman Andy Harris told the Wall Street Journal that the president still had not won over enough supporters for the current legislation. He said, quote, we can get there, but maybe not by tomorrow, end quote. We’ll talk about it with Georgia Congressman Andrew Clyde, a member of the House Freedom Caucus. Meanwhile, President Trump held a two-hour call yesterday with Russian President Vladimir Putin.
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I think something’s going to happen. It’s a very – got big egos involved, I tell you. Big egos involved. But I think something’s going to happen. And if it doesn’t, I’d just back away and they’re going to have to keep going.
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The president did describe the conversation as productive, but Vladimir Putin was more reserved, stating only that Russia is, quote, ready to begin work on a memorandum toward a potential future peace treaty, end quote. Is Putin stalling while pursuing further territorial gains? North Carolina Congressman Greg Murphy joins us to assess the implications. And on the spiritual front, could June 8th be the largest one-day baptism event in history? Pastor Mark Franci of Oceans Church in California believes it could be, and he’s praying and working to make it happen. He joins us later with the exciting details. Also tomorrow, Family Research Council releases a new and timely resource, Embracing God’s Design, Addressing the Spiritual and Psychological Crisis Behind Transgender Identity, co-authored by Dr. Jennifer Bowens, FRC’s Director for the Center for Family Studies, and FRC Senior Fellow, Walt Heyer. Now this book will be a vital tool for parents, pastors, and policy makers alike. You won’t want to miss my conversation later with Walt and Jennifer. All of that is ahead on this Tuesday edition of Washington Watch. But before we dive in, mark your calendars. Better yet, text me. Text Matthew to 67742 and join FRC’s 21-day Family Bible Challenge through the Gospel of Matthew, kicking off June the 11th. For several years now, I’ve led families through the Bible every two years, and the impact has been powerful. I’ve received letters, emails, and calls from people age 90 to 90. sharing how God’s Word has transformed their lives, their marriages, and their families. So why not start with just one book? Take the challenge. Read the Gospel of Matthew together as a family for 21 days. And pastors, you can invite your church to join you. Start the summer with Scripture. Text MATTHEW to 67742 to get all the information. That’s MATTHEW to 67742. Well, as I mentioned, President Trump went to Capitol Hill this morning to rally Republicans behind the current version of his big, beautiful bill. He addressed some of the issues that conservatives are raising with the measure, namely the failure to aggressively pursue spending reductions being pushed by pushing the cost savings into the second half of the 10-year window that history tells us are unlikely to be realized. Is behind-the-scenes progress being made? Well, here to discuss this by phone, stepping off the House floor, Congressman Andrew Clyde, who serves on two House committees, including the Budget Committee. He represents the 9th Congressional District of Georgia, and he’s also a member of the House Freedom Caucus. Congressman Clyde, thanks for joining us.
SPEAKER 12 :
Tony, it’s great to be with you on Washington Watch.
SPEAKER 14 :
All right. Your thoughts on the president’s appearance at the House GOP conference meeting this morning?
SPEAKER 12 :
Well, I’ll tell you what, it was a great event. He had a great speech. He had one written, and he basically set it to the side and said, I’m just going to talk to you from the heart. And that’s exactly what he did. And literally for over an hour, he spoke to us. And we talked about, or he talked about many of the issues. You know, he talked about salt. He talked about… Medicaid and Medicare and Social Security and how we are going to strengthen those issues, those programs, but we’re going to deal with the waste, fraud, and abuse in those programs. And I couldn’t agree with them more on that. We just have to get this big, beautiful bill to a point where it actually does that. It deals with the waste, fraud, and abuse in Medicaid. And also we need to deal with the Green New Deal subsidies. The president has said many times he wants to completely eliminate those subsidies. And this bill goes about halfway, but it needs to go farther to do that. And so we’re working on that, too. We still have time. But those are two really important issues there.
SPEAKER 14 :
Let’s talk about that, Andrew, because the way the budgeting works is you have a 10-year window. So all your costs and reductions have to appear in the window to balance that budget. But as I understand it, the concern has been with conservatives, and by the way, I’m in agreement, that these, like the reductions in Medicare, the work requirements, that those are pushed past the first window kind of into the second part of this 10-year window. Has that been corrected?
SPEAKER 12 :
No, that has not been corrected, and that’s one of the issues that we have, is that you have an increase in the deficit, you know, by $300 billion and $400 billion a year up through year four, year five, actually, where the first year there’s a little bit of deficit reduction, and then year two, three, four, and five, you have significant deficit increase up to about $1.3 trillion a And then after that, your 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, you have a decrease. So there’s overall roughly, you know, just a little bit better than balance. But all that savings, all those cost reductions, those spending cuts come in the last five years, which typically never happens. And that’s the problem right there.
SPEAKER 14 :
So let me let you explain that a little bit. But the work requirements are what we’re talking about with Medicaid. That means if you’re able bodied, you know, you’re sitting at home on the couch watching TV as opposed to working and you’re just getting Medicaid. That’s what we’re talking about here in terms of reduction. Why are we going to wait five years to start that? Why not start it now?
SPEAKER 12 :
That’s a great question. And that’s one of the things that we brought up and said, hey. Why aren’t we starting this? Why are we starting this, you know, in 2029? We should be starting this as soon as possible. You know, yes, granted, it takes a bit of time to write the regulations for it. It takes a little bit of time for the states to approve it because it’s a state-run program. But this should be implemented no later than 2026, all right, not 2029. And so there’s an issue there that we need to negotiate through. Work requirements is very important because able-bodied adults do not need to be on Medicaid. They can be working, and they should be working, and that’s the point right there.
SPEAKER 14 :
All right. The next item you brought up, a similar situation. It’s the green new scam. This was all the green energy stuff that was put in the Inflation Reduction Act. And this, too, is not being curtailed until the kind of the tail end of this 10 year window. Why don’t we why aren’t we more aggressive with that?
SPEAKER 12 :
Well, again, that’s something that we’ve been working on to move up. the cutoff dates for these green new deal subsidies or green new scam subsidies, if we can accomplish that and move up the cutoff dates, and then for those energy products or projects, rather, that have this 10-year window of subsidies attached to them, we need to reduce those subsidies, even if we have to do like a step down of 10% per year. You know, that needs to happen. There’s no way that our hard-earned tax dollars should be going to subsidize, you know, wind and solar, which is unreliable, and it makes our grid unreliable when we have wind and solar being, you know, the two types of energy production that are the most type that are going into our grid right now, you know, the most type that are being currently built. And it’s not natural gas and it’s not coal. It’s unreliable wind and solar.
SPEAKER 14 :
Well, and also it’s being subsidized. I mean, if there’s money to be made in that industry, the industry will be it’ll drive itself. I mean, that’s kind of a free market principle that we keep forgetting. Two feet. That’s what should happen. Right. All right. So tell me, how are the negotiations going on behind the scenes? I mean, the conservatives have been pretty forthright about this all along. You, I think, in the committee, there were about four or five Republicans that voted present but didn’t vote for this to allow it to go to the next step, but to allow conversations to continue. Are those conversations continuing and are they leading to anything?
SPEAKER 12 :
Yes, there were four of us that voted present to allow the bill to move forward. All right. And I was one of those four that voted present. You know, it was just the negotiations that happened over the weekend. I was here Friday, Saturday and Sunday working into the night with the leadership and with the White House. And we made a little bit of progress there. But I think we need a little more time to make more progress because this bill, as it sits right now, does not do what the president’s agenda needs. is actually what the president has told the American people that he wants to do, especially when it comes to the spending cut side of it.
SPEAKER 14 :
Well, I think you’re right to hold the line on that and do actually make sure this bill does what people say it’s going to do. Next step is the rules committee tomorrow. Is this going to make it through the rules committee as it is?
SPEAKER 12 :
Well, the manager’s amendment is the next step. We have not seen the manager’s amendment. My guess is it probably will make it through the rules committee. You know, that is the committee for the speaker, really. That’s his committee. So it will probably make it through the rules committee. But I don’t know if it’s going to make it on the rule on the floor. You know, if the rule on the floor goes down, the bill’s not dead. You know, it just means that it needs to go back to rules to have a little more negotiating time. That’s all that means. And, you know, so I firmly believe that we will get this bill across the floor, but I think it just may take a little more time.
SPEAKER 14 :
Meaning a little more time. What do you mean by that? How long?
SPEAKER 12 :
A little more to negotiate. A little more time to negotiate to get the conservative policy and the fiscal policy that is so important in this bill.
SPEAKER 14 :
So do you think you’ll be working through the weekend?
SPEAKER 12 :
Um… It could be. Very well could be. That depends on leadership and on the White House.
SPEAKER 14 :
So let’s talk about, we just have about a minute and a half left here. Let’s talk about the moderates who are demanding. You mentioned SALT. This is the state and local tax, which basically is a subsidy of blue states. Where does that stand in the mix?
SPEAKER 12 :
Well, the president was pretty forceful this morning and he said no more SALT. He said, you know, that SALT, by california and illinois and new york is so unfair to the rest of the country and he’s right 100 right yeah um you know the the the folks from those states are simply trying to use their leverage to uh to get more deductions for state and local tax um but the president i think laid the hammer down pretty hard this morning so we’ll see what uh you know what kind of reaction they have on it do you think they got the message i think they got the message but um but Whether it does any good or not, I can’t tell you that.
SPEAKER 14 :
All right. Congressman Andrew Clyde, always great to talk with you. Thanks so much for giving us the latest there from the House floor.
SPEAKER 12 :
Thank you very much, Tony. Great to be with you on Washington Watch.
SPEAKER 14 :
All right. Congressman Andrew Clyde of Georgia. So there’s still time to weigh in on this because there’s still a lot of give and take. I would encourage you to text Congress to 67742 and you can weigh in. We’ll give you a link and you can go directly to your member of Congress. We want to make sure Planned Parenthood, the defunding stays in and also the funding of transgenderism. That needs to be out. All right. We’re back after this.
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Jennifer, it’s so exciting to be here with you today talking about our new book, Embracing God’s Design. Who is actually going to benefit from reading this book in your view?
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There’s so many different audiences that can benefit. The first one are counselors themselves, because we have some material in there where we really address the gender dysphoria diagnosis and what is wrong with it. We have information for people who are wanting to go back to embracing God’s design for their life.
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And we brought all of that experience to the table. We want to see people walking in the fullness of who God has called them to be and not a false identity.
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Welcome back to Washington Watch. Thanks for joining us on this Tuesday. And hey, let me remind you, join us for FRC’s 21-day Family Bible Challenge through the book of Matthew. To join us, simply text the word Matthew to 67742. Lots of resources for the entire family. Text Matthew to 67742. President Trump on Monday said his two-hour phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin went very well, saying that both Russia and Ukraine will immediately start negotiations on ending the war. He informed Ukrainian President Zelensky and other European allies of this immediately after the talk with Putin. But Putin’s messaging seemed to conflict with that a bit, saying that, well, he will – They said they’re ready to work on a memorandum, meaning we’ll start working on talking about stuff. Doesn’t seem that Putin’s too eager to end this war. Joining me now to discuss this, Congressman Greg Murphy, who serves as a member of the House Ways and Means Committee. He represents the 3rd Congressional District of North Carolina. Dr. Murphy, welcome back to Washington Watch. I know you’re on the House floor. Thanks for stepping off to talk to us.
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Absolutely. Good afternoon, Tony.
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So what do you make of President Trump’s announcement? How optimistic are you that peace between Russia and Ukraine is imminent and obtainable?
SPEAKER 09 :
I think it’s obtainable. Tony, whether it’s imminent or not remains to be seen. You’re dealing with a bloodthirsty despot who really feels no remorse in sending his countrymen into a sawmill to kill them for what gain is beyond me. But also on the other side, you have a leader of a country formerly really corrupt, hopefully really has turned the corner that doesn’t want to see his country dismantled by a foreign invader. I think Zelensky is a lot more amenable to trying to get the war done, or with the war finished, than Putin has you know, has reasons to want to end the war. There’s really no reason for Putin to want to end the war. He’s isolated his economy enough, and sadly enough, I don’t think he values human life whatsoever.
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Well, President Zelensky says Putin is only trying to buy time with these negotiations to continue the war in Ukraine. I tend to agree with that. And I think, I mean, my take, Putin really kind of gets a bounce by having a conversation with President Trump. I mean, I think that raises his stature as he’s been a kind of a pariah out there.
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Yeah, it does, because, you know, look— Some people don’t like Trump, but my gosh, he’s on top of the world right now. He’s just in Saudi Arabia. He got trillions of dollars in a trade deal with them. The world understands strength, you know, in contrast to the absolute just failure of the last administration. So him having any relation whatsoever with President Trump sure does elevate his status compared to anything with Biden.
SPEAKER 14 :
Right. Well, we also have to, I mean, history matters when we look at these things. Putin is trying to rebuild the Russian empire like Stalin did in post-World War II Russia. I mean, they are looking at this as an opportunity in their future. They’re looking at it much differently than we are. They have a different system. And oftentimes our foreign policy seems to miss that.
SPEAKER 09 :
I agree. You know, they’re much more of a dictatorship, monolithic czarist, if you will, society, in that one person has central control and Mother Russia should dominate. But, you know, that’s not the worldview. That’s not what happened. That’s not why the United States is the leader of the free world. We have other countries, such as China, that there’s really essentially a single leader, although there’s a, quote, party that leads the country. This is not what democracy is all about. And sadly enough, I think the average Russian doesn’t know the difference and just suffers every day in a very miserable, dreary life. But that’s okay with Putin. He really doesn’t care. This is a personal thing with him. It’s about glory and trying to, as you point out, trying to get Russia back to the status of the great Lenin and Stalin.
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One of the very practical things we could do on a domestic front that will have implications here, and it’s being done, and I’d like to get an update from you on where it stands, is reviving our own energy production. Because as we go back to being an exporter of energy, we’re going to drive down Russia’s revenue stream that they’re getting through selling their oil.
SPEAKER 09 :
Sure. And if you look at what, Tony, the one… issue, the one article, the one program that controls pretty much everything. It’s energy these days. How can you run your mills? How can you go out and put your crops in the field? How can you harvest them? How can you make anything? How can you get from A to B? It’s all about energy. And with the Biden administration, they just wanted to float these insane ideas and destroy American energy dominance. Look at Biden, even though he didn’t remember it, wanted to just destroy American liquid natural gas, giving it all to Russia to let them become preeminent. But, you know, finally, it’s great to have President Trump back on top, really reasserting American dominance for this. And by definition, when we do this, we weaken some of the other countries. And fortunately, Russia is one of them.
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Right. Not to get too deeply into this, but I was just talking with one of your colleagues, Andrew Clyde, about the Green New Deal that’s in the reconciliation to pull out that subsidies for these green energy projects, which runs counter to becoming a energy excess producer where we’re actually exporting, which we were doing at the end of the last Trump administration.
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Well, one thing, Tony, I think you have to be a little careful at this. I’m a huge fan of nuclear. That is the future of this country. And if we pull the rug out under helping nuclear get started, we cut our throats to do this. We cut our nose to spite our face. So I think I’m a little bit more, I want to put a little more scrutiny in this. than really just flashing, flashing, flashing.
SPEAKER 14 :
How much funding is in for nuclear in the New Deal, in the Green Deal?
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, Tony, I can’t give you an exact number. The runway that we’ve allowed is through 3031. But it takes a decade for nuclear to do these things. It doesn’t take as long for solar or anything else like that. So we have to actually be a little bit judicious in what we’re doing. You know, I think a few people have decided they just want to be naysayers and pick little pieces out of the BBB, as it were. But we’ve got to be smart. We actually have to use our brains when doing this.
SPEAKER 14 :
I don’t disagree with nuclear. I think the wind and solar that’s having to be subsidized to get people into that industry, I think, is proven to be kind of a loser. Not that I’m against some of it, but I just think we know what works and what we need right now is energy production. Right. Dr. Murphy, out of time. Thanks for stepping off the floor to to talk with us. And always good to talk with you.
SPEAKER 09 :
All right. Thank you, Tony. God bless.
SPEAKER 14 :
All right. Dr. Greg Murphy of North Carolina. Do agree. Nuclear. I’m not sure there’s a whole lot in that new green deal that relates to that. All right, folks, don’t go away. We’re back with more after this.
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for Bible-believing Christians to know what God’s Word says on these issues and to learn how they can apply it to their lives. And we believe that the more Christians that we equip, that’s how we’ll change the nation.
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All right, welcome back to Washington Watch. Good to have you with us on this Tuesday. All right, a movement in California that led to over 7,000 baptisms in a single day, actually 7,750 in a single day earlier this year, is expanding. On June the 8th, churches across the country will perform synchronized water baptisms as a part of a nationwide effort known as Baptize America. So how can your church get involved and what could the impact be? Here to discuss the movement, Pastor Mark Franci of Oceans Church in California, who is the driving force behind Baptize America. Pastor Franci, welcome to Washington Watch. Thanks for joining us.
SPEAKER 17 :
It’s an honor to be with you today, Tony. Thanks for having me on.
SPEAKER 14 :
So let’s talk first about what is Baptize America. Where did this come from?
SPEAKER 17 :
Well, probably like a lot of cool things on the earth, it came from a prayer time, just hearing the inner little whisper of the Holy Spirit, asking me three years ago to start something in Southern California to unite the church around something that interdenominationally we all agree on, which is water baptism. And I heard that inner whisper say, I want you to organize it. I want you to help pay for it, to get it started. And I don’t want you to put your name or your church’s name on any of it. And so two years ago on Pentecost Sunday, we launched Baptize Southern California at the historic Pirate’s Cove in beautiful Orange County, California. We had about 170, 80 churches show up, work together, different denominations coming together. We baptized 4,166 people in one day. In the following year, we knew we couldn’t go back to Pirates Cove. We kind of outgrew it. So last year on Pentecost Sunday, we went to Huntington Beach and we saw 6,000 and some change get baptized at Huntington Beach. And we actually united the church of California. We had over 300 locations in the entire state that were hosting in local churches. And those 300 locations in every single county of California changed. hosted and baptized 6,000 in those churches. So we saw, last year, 12,000, 6,000 in one location, and another 6,300 local churches. And we felt like the Lord told us if He could do it in Southern California, He could do it in all of California. And if this could happen in California, it could happen in America. So this year, Pentecost Sunday, June 8th, we will be launching in every single state. Thousands of churches will be working together to fulfill the Matthew 28 commission to go into all the world, making disciples, baptizing them. And we believe if God could do it in America, it’ll go to the ends of the earth.
SPEAKER 14 :
Before I ask you about how folks can get involved in here, I want to take this for granted. To baptize, it also requires a profession of faith. So these are people that have made professions of faith in Jesus Christ and then are being baptized on this Sunday.
SPEAKER 17 :
Absolutely. That is kind of the precursor, obviously, is whether they’re showing up to a live event like we’ve hosted. We’ve always preached the gospel. I mean, a lot of times people know before they sign up on the sign-up form. That’s a part of the questionnaire. But we do preach the gospel at every live event we have done. We had over, I think, 1,500 people give their hearts to Jesus at Huntington Beach. A couple weeks ago, we had a We had about 29,000 plus people, they said, show up to Huntington Beach. We baptized the 7,752. But out of that number, about 1,500 gave their life to Jesus live at the event, and God immediately got baptized. And so all of the host locations in these local churches, it’s a very low number. expectation as far as it’s very easy to be a host church. But one of the three requirements is we want there to be a clear proclamation of what the gospel is with an invitation for people to respond before they go into the waters of baptism.
SPEAKER 14 :
So how can churches find out more about this, Pastor Francine, how they can be a part of it?
SPEAKER 17 :
Yeah, it’s great, Tony. If they go to baptize.org or baptizeamerica.com, either way, it’ll get you to the same place. We’re kind of gearing up. We’ve already seen other nations respond. They’re launching Baptize Canada this year, Baptize Sweden. I have a call with Brazil this week. They’re going to be launching Baptize Brazil. So it’s already kind of sweeping across the world. But if they want to host in their local church, Go to baptizeamerica.com. It takes about two minutes to fill out the form. And we’re seeing literally hundreds of churches signing up every day right now to be a host location. And it’s beautiful. Some of the great churches across the spectrum of the body of Christ working together to fulfill the Great Commission.
SPEAKER 14 :
Pastor Francie, if I can, on behalf of my Presbyterian friends, can they sprinkle?
SPEAKER 17 :
Yeah, I think if it’s something that they’re already doing in their local churches, we want to see people work together to fulfill the Great Commission.
SPEAKER 14 :
So what kind of feedback have you gotten from those that have been a part of this in the past that have joined in the effort? I mean, like residual, as it’s created something stirring in their church locally.
SPEAKER 17 :
Absolutely. That’s been the beautiful thing is the last two years, we have really a proven model here that all the churches that really own it, get excited about it, have seen record-breaking baptisms, usually sometimes as much as 100% bigger than any baptisms they’ve ever done before. And the residual effect of, I mean, several churches here in California grew by 100 to 200 people that showed up to get baptized and got connected to their local church. For us, The win is not a big number to publish. It’s lives change that are getting connected to a local church.
SPEAKER 14 :
We just have about 45 seconds left. But my experience, Pastor Francie, at pastoring is a lot of people, they don’t follow through with believers baptism. And that’s really kind of disobedience. And once we go forward in obedience and following Christ, as you pointed out in Matthew 28, things break free and we begin to see the power of God move.
SPEAKER 17 :
Absolutely. That’s it. The win for us is if these people show up to get baptized and get connected to the local church to become disciples. In our estimation, the greatest way to make a disciple is to get them connected to a healthy, vibrant local church.
SPEAKER 14 :
All right. Again, give out the website very quickly.
SPEAKER 17 :
BaptizeAmerica.com.
SPEAKER 14 :
All right, Pastor Francie, great to see you. And we’ll be praying that many are baptized on Pentecost Sunday. All right, folks, stick with us. We have more Washington Watch straight ahead.
SPEAKER 01 :
Family Research Council is committed to advancing faith, family, and freedom from the East Coast to the West. So FRC is going to Southern California for this year’s Pray, Vote, Stand Summit, October 17th and 18th at Calvary Chapel Chino Hills. Join us for this powerful gathering of Christians desiring cultural renewal and spiritual revival. The Pray, Vote, Stand Summit brings together Christian leaders, issue experts, and government officials for a time of prayer, inspiration, and action. Together, we will seek God’s guidance for our nation and engage in meaningful discussions on the intersection of faith, government, and culture. If the spiritual foundations and the cultural walls of our nation are to be rebuilt, we all have a role to play. May we each find our place on the wall as we build for biblical truth. Register now at PrayVoteStand.org. That’s PrayVoteStand.org.
SPEAKER 03 :
What is God’s role in government? What does the separation of church and state really mean? And how does morality shape a nation? President John Adams said our Constitution was made only for moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. Join Family Research Council for God and Government, a powerful 13-part series that equips you with biblical truth to engage in today’s most pressing debates. From the Ten Commandments in classrooms to the immigration crisis of America, we’ll uncover the foundations of our nation’s history and why it’s relevant for today. Defend God’s plan for government because faith and freedom were never meant to be separate. To view the series on the Stand Firm app, text COURSE to 67742.
SPEAKER 20 :
How should Christians think about the thorny issues shaping our culture? How should Christians address deceitful ideas like transgenderism, critical theory, or assisted suicide? How can Christians navigate raising children in a broken culture, the war on gender roles, or rebuilding our once great nation? Outstanding is a podcast from The Washington Stand dedicated to these critical conversations. Outstanding seeks to tear down what our corrupt culture lifts up with an aim to take every thought and every idea captive to the obedience of Christ. Whether policies or partisan politics, whether conflict in America or conflict abroad, join us and our guests as we examine the headlines through the lens of Scripture and explore how Christians can faithfully exalt Christ and in all of life follow outstanding on your favorite podcast app and look for new episodes each week
SPEAKER 14 :
Welcome back to Washington Watch. Thanks so much for joining us. Would you like an idea of how to make the kickoff to this summer a summer that you’ll remember? Well, I challenge you then to take FRC’s 21-day Family Bible Challenge through the Gospel of Matthew. It kicks off on June the 11th. You can invite your children, your grandchildren to join you. You can even invite neighbors to join you. And we have the entire reading plan, questions, study guide, family resources, and even activities for children. Simply text Matthew to 67742. That’s Matthew to 67742. And make this summer a summer to remember by spending time in the life transformative Word of God. Well, speaking of the Word, our Word for today comes from Zechariah chapter 9, where the Lord gives a prophetic glimpse of the coming Messiah. Quote, Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout aloud, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your King is coming to you, righteous and having salvation as He, humble and mounted on a donkey, on a colt, on a foal of a donkey. I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the war horse from Jerusalem. And the battle bow shall be cut off, and he shall speak peace to the nations. His rule shall be from sea to sea, and from the river to the ends of the earth.” Now, this passage speaks beautifully to both the first and the second coming of the Messiah. Jesus came the first time in humility riding on a donkey, just as Zechariah foretold. but he will return in power, bringing peace and establishing a global kingdom. Notice the scope of his reign. It will not merely stretch from the river to the sea, but from the river to the ends of the earth. The New Testament records the fulfillment of his first coming exactly as written. giving us full confidence that His second coming will unfold just as promised. The question is, are you ready? To find out more about our journey through the Bible, text BIBLE to 67742. Statistically, 1.4% of American teenagers ages 13 to 17 identify now as transgender. Well, that number may be small. We should not underestimate the threat posed by the transgenderism movement that has been used to shift the culture away from biblical truth into a place where truth is prosecuted. And that’s why FRC, nearly 10 years ago, seeing this coming threat, our policy team began to work on model legislation to protect children. The Save Adolescents from Experimentation Act, or also known as the SAVE Act. Now, the first state to pass it was Arkansas, followed now by over two dozen states. Almost 26, 27 states have this type of legislation protecting children from irreversible surgeries and experimental drug treatments because of gender dysphoria. But there’s more. There’s more that needs to be done beyond public policy. The transgender movement preys on impressionable children and convinces the vulnerable that they can’t find peace in the identity and the body that God has given to them. This is spiritual as much, if not more, than it is physical and political. Thankfully, there is a new book that’s coming out tomorrow that will help bring God’s truth to the discussion of the transgender ideology. It’s titled Embracing God’s Design, Addressing the Spiritual and Psychological, Physiological Crisis Behind Transgender Identity. And joining me now are the book’s authors, Dr. Jennifer Bowens and Walt Heyer. Dr. Bowens is the director of the Center for Family Studies here at FRC. She is a research clinician. And Walt is a senior fellow as well here at the Family Research Council and a detransitioner, a term that you might not be familiar with until now. Jennifer and Walt, welcome back to Washington Watch. Thanks for joining us.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah, thanks, Tony, for having us.
SPEAKER 14 :
All right, Walt, I want to start with you because I want to start with that term that some may not be familiar with because the media doesn’t like to talk about it and the fact that it exists. Detransitioning. You lived as a woman for a while and you detransitioned back to your God-given identity.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah, I did identify as a woman for almost eight years and then got my sanity back and realized that I was living a lie and I needed to re-identify as who I am that you’re looking at today. And I realized, Tony, at that time that the hormones and surgery really didn’t change my gender. And so that was kind of the revelation and I needed to go to the Lord Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER 14 :
uh to really find my identity and that’s what i did and that’s where i’ve been living for the last 35 plus years yeah i want to come back to that in a moment and talk about that but i i want to start first with uh why what inspired the two of you to work with the work together and write this book now jennifer you were a teaching professor you’re a clinician You’ve been now at the Family Research Council for a number of years working on this particular issue. I think God brought you here for this moment in time because this is such a critical issue. But talk a little bit about what inspired you to team up with Walt and write this book.
SPEAKER 21 :
Yeah, so my background is in trauma research and trauma practice. And what we were seeing with the gender dysphoria issue, which we don’t even like to use that term because it’s really at the heart of the matter is an identity issue. And what we were observing and what Walt’s own testimony and experience has been with working with other people is that there are other issues that are really at the core of this gender ideology, the gender dysphoria diagnosis. And that’s where my background came to play. And Walt and I had known each other on and off for years. And, you know, it was just kind of like for such a time as this that… We got in touch again and, you know, we realized what we could contribute together with my background and his background, personal experience, that we could really produce a resource for people who want to understand and be equipped to deal with the gender ideology. But also, you know, you quoted a statistic earlier, Tony, about the number of children who are identifying as transgender. What isn’t included in that statistic is the fact that we have a whole group of young people who’ve been exposed to this ideology through school, through social media, et cetera. So just because they’re not personally identifying as transgender, doesn’t mean that they haven’t been infected by the ideology. And we need to know how to speak compassionately about this issue. And we also need to understand what are the real issues. This holds true for policymakers and it holds true for the community at large. We really need to speak in a way that gets to the heart of why someone would be driven to identify as a transgender with a false identity.
SPEAKER 14 :
And that’s what this book is designed to do is to help not just those that may identify as transgender, but the family, pastors, youth counselors, others to understand the underlying issues. And you mentioned the trauma. In many cases, what we have found is that there is trauma in the background of those who have this gender dysphoria. Oftentimes, it’s a defense mechanism, is it not?
SPEAKER 21 :
Yeah, that’s right. You know, this issue, this ideology goes hand in glove with those who’ve experienced trauma. Because very often when someone goes through complex or ongoing trauma, what they want to do is… And it’s not necessarily at a conscious level, but they they want to disconnect from that place of being a victim of being harmed or just simply the pain of what they went through. And so very often people will that the term dissociation or disconnection is is commonplace here. So here you have an ideology that says, oh, we can help you disconnect from who you are and from your past, et cetera. So you can see just on the surface how hand in glove this ideology really is with those who’ve experienced trauma, who are seeking to distance themselves from the pain of what they’ve been through. And I know Walt has that experience as well.
SPEAKER 14 :
I want to go to you, Walt, because you mentioned this at the open, that it didn’t work. This was just kind of like sweeping an underlying issue under the rug, and it didn’t work until you came to grips with who you really were. Can you speak to that?
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah, you know, in the trauma piece, I was sexually abused and physically abused before I was 10 years old. And, you know, that was in 1940s. So it was a long time ago. So I’ve been dealing with this on this level. And I know when I opened my website up 20 years ago, I started a website, sexchangeregret.com, and started helping people. because I experienced this thing, the regrettable outcome of doing this, and I wanted to find out how many other people have gone through this. And Tony, in working with these individuals, I can tell you that well over 90% of them When I spend time with them, we can identify a trauma, an event, an issue that happened to them that caused them to not like who they are, just like I did. And once we focus on that trauma, that event, then we actually find out they didn’t have gender dysphoria. They just didn’t like who they were. They didn’t like being the one who was physically abused or was abandoned. Something happened in the child’s life. early on is called Adverse Childhood Experiences. And we address this in the book. And what, you know, up to this point, I think everybody’s just kind of been using a hammer to deal with this issue. And what Jennifer and I have done is miraculous pairing of us getting together. I’ve worked with thousands of individuals who’ve gone through this, and then she has this tremendous background in trauma. Coming together, we actually provide a huge toolbox for everybody who’s interested, or working with this issue that they can draw from and actually begin helping people. The book is fantastic, not because I was involved. It wouldn’t have been anywhere near what it is without the two of us coming together, bringing my 20 years of experience of working with thousands of people and Jennifer’s absolute amazing background in trauma.
SPEAKER 14 :
To be very clear on this, Jennifer, this is not a policy book. This is a book of how to understand and help those that are trapped into this gender ideology. That’s exactly right.
SPEAKER 21 :
And I would just add to that. I would say, yes, on its face, it’s not necessarily a policy book. However, we believe that everything that we have in this book is so essential for policymakers to, one, to be able to speak about the issue in a very thoughtful and meaningful way that’s grounded in research. But also, you know, it is very practical. So it has dual purposes in that way. We want to equip believers, conservatives to be able to help someone. But it’s very important that people understand the issue from the ins and outs. And there’s so many things that that could spin off from this book to become good policy issues, you know, whether it’s addressing the mental health system and some of the diagnostic problems that we face from insurance reimbursement. You know, I could go on. There are a number of ways that this could be used as a policy book, but the heart of it is really quite practical and something that anyone can get a hold of. And actually, we hope that… You know, as as you read this book, that it will also impact your life, because as I started with this at the core of what we’re talking about is an identity issue. And many of us have those issues that we’re working through. And this could be a help in that way.
SPEAKER 14 :
You really can’t. effectively address public policy until you have the facts and you know the truth. And that’s not been out there. The media has covered it up. Academia has covered it up. The left does not want people to know the underlying issue. And I want to go back to you, Walt, on this. We just have a few minutes left. But you said what set you free was coming to grips with who you are as created by God. And that’s the title of the book, Embracing God’s Design. You’ve worked, as you mentioned, thousands of people have come to you looking for help, share their stories. What percentage have found peace and freedom as a result of coming to an understanding of who they were in Christ and coming to know Him as their personal Lord and Savior?
SPEAKER 10 :
Of the people that I’ve worked with, it’s hard to track when you’re dealing with thousands of people, but I would say over 50% of them find their way to the Lord Jesus Christ. When they finally understand that hormones and surgery, and this is the critical part of this, Tony, when you realize the truth is, and that’s what this is about, the truth, is that hormones and surgery has never changed anybody’s biological gender. You’re still who you are. You’re just identifying as someone who you’re not. And so that reality comes to light when you finally come face to face with the Lord Jesus Christ in prayer as it did with me, and you realize that you’ve been serving the LGBT when you should be serving the Lord Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER 14 :
So you’re saying the truth will set you free. Absolutely. All right, Jennifer, just two minutes left. Number one, where can people get a copy of the book? And number two, I’m interested, did you discover anything? I mean, you know a lot about this. Walt knows a lot about it. But was there any aha moments as you were doing research for the book?
SPEAKER 21 :
You know, I think one of the things that just talking with each other that we were able to grapple with and come to a place of love about the language that we use and and how often we we want to use. words that aren’t reaffirming the very ideology and the language that’s used in the ideology. And so I think we really came to a place of saying, you know, we don’t want to use some of these terms when we don’t have to, because sometimes we have to in policy spaces. But just like the idea of gender dysphoria, We don’t really believe in the idea of gender dysphoria. We believe that at its core it’s an identity issue and that there are other things that are sort of scaffold around this identity distress. So those were some of the interesting things that are less talked about in our policy discussions or even research discussions that I think there’s more to come for that. In terms of the book, you can really you can get it anywhere books are sold. Fidelis is the publisher and they, I believe, even have a coupon code for the month of May till the end of May. I believe it’s Fidelis 15. If not, please correct me.
SPEAKER 14 :
Well, just go to go to Tony Perkins dot com right now and we’ll make sure that you can get a copy of that. Yeah. But I encourage you to pick up a copy. Walt, Jennifer, thanks so much for joining me today. We’re out of time, but always great to see you. And folks, I want to encourage you, pick up a copy of the book and share the truth with those around you. Until next time, keep standing.
SPEAKER 24 :
Washington Watch with Tony Perkins is brought to you by Family Research Council and is entirely listener supported. Portions of the show discussing candidates are brought to you by Family Research Council Action. For more information on anything you heard today or to find out how you can partner with us in our ongoing efforts to promote faith, family and freedom, visit TonyPerkins.com.
