On Air
National Crawford Roundtable
Sat: 7 PM
Dive into the complexities of IRS regulations and their political implications with Chris Gober as he sheds light on ongoing litigation that could alter the landscape for non-profit organizations. The show also revisits the Johnson Amendment discussion, exploring its impact on religious freedoms. David Claussen wraps up the segment by reflecting on the week’s major events through a Biblical lens, providing listeners with a faith-driven perspective on pressing national issues.
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from the heart of our nation’s capital in Washington, D.C., bringing compelling interviews, insightful analysis, taking you beyond the headlines and soundbites into conversations with our nation’s leaders and newsmakers, all from a biblical worldview. Sitting in for Tony is today’s host, Jody Heiss.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, good afternoon. Welcome to this July 11th edition of Washington Watch. I am Jody Heiss, a senior fellow here at the Family Research Council, and your Friday host. So glad to have you on board with us today. Coming up on today’s edition of Washington Watch, immigration and custom enforcement continues to do its job, and that is to enforce our nation’s laws. But the lawless left is not happy about that.
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What have they accomplished except for spreading fear and terror in our community? What have they accomplished? I’m sure there’s a handful of dangerous people that they detained, but we know that that is not the case. Otherwise, they would have been parading them through the media, telling us about all the horrific crimes they committed.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, that was Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass earlier this week on NBC’s Telemundo Network. Well, just maybe if she watched something other than the leftist media outlets, she would hear about the types of criminals who are actually being rounded up.
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We have arrested almost 600 known or suspected terrorists within the United States, 2,700 members of Trend de Aragua, a vicious gang that kills, rapes, and maims Americans for sport. That is who these politicians are protecting.
SPEAKER 08 :
That was DHS Assistant Secretary Trisha McLaughlin earlier this week, and I’ll discuss this here in just a couple of moments when I’m joined by Congressman Brad Knott, who is a member of the House Homeland Security Committee. And the National Education Association recently held its annual meeting, and among the resolutions they passed was one to fight President Trump’s alleged fascism, and their war cry was certainly heard loud and clear.
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Diversity, equity, and inclusion. Say the words! Say the words! Say them! Say them out loud!
SPEAKER 08 :
Wow. That was NEA President Becky Pringle on day one of that gathering, and we’ll discuss what else came out of that four-day meeting when I’m joined a little bit later by CEO of Moms for Liberty, Tina Deskovich. And also today, we’ll highlight a legal effort to prevent the IRS from blackballing conservative groups who are seeking nonprofit tax-exempt status. Attorney Chris Gober will join me for that discussion a little bit later. And speaking of the IRS… That’ll be one of the topics that we’ll also discuss when I’m joined by David Claussen for our Biblical Worldview segment a little later in the program. So as always, we have a lot coming your way, all of it, trying to hit the highlights of the week from a Biblical worldview perspective. And you can always keep abreast of it all with our website, TonyPerkins.com. All right, let’s jump into our first topic for today. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement has been working tirelessly, literally, trying to enforce our nation’s immigration laws, rounding up criminals, illegal criminals, immigrants. But their work has not come without fierce and, in fact, in some sad instances, even violent resistance from the woke mob. And you can take for just an example the immigration raid at a marijuana farm in Southern California just yesterday where for four hours there were protesters and apparently one of them at least opened fire on federal agents. And thankfully, in that incident, none of the agents were injured. But unfortunately, that was far from being an isolated incident. Well, joining me now to discuss this and more is Congressman Brad Knott. He’s a member of the House Homeland Security Committee and represents North Carolina’s 13th congressional district. Congressman Knott, welcome back to Washington Watch. Great to have you.
SPEAKER 04 :
Hey, Jody, it’s good to be here. Thank you.
SPEAKER 08 :
All right, so we’ve got several of these immigration enforcement raids that are seemingly being met with fierce, fierce resistance from the woke mob. And so let me start with this question. Do Democrats, in your opinion, even some like California Governor Gavin Newsom, do they bear some responsibility for stoking the fire of the violence that we’re seeing right now against these federal agents?
SPEAKER 04 :
Absolutely, and I would push back on that. It’s not just the woke mob, it’s the entire Democratic Party by and large who are pushing back against the efforts of this administration to do two things. And those two things, of course, are to secure the border and then to remove illegal immigrants, starting with those who are most dangerous. And even in Congress, it is very common to hear people call our ICE agents the Gestapo or compare them to Hitler’s secret police, the SS. It’s really, it’s unbelievable. And it’s unfortunately a continuing trend that I saw before I decided to run. When I was working in the Department of Justice, when I was seeing the resistance from the Biden-Harris administration to enforce our laws, they do not want any immigration enforcement. They are committed to the open borders. And the very, very dangerous effects to our own country, those are not being considered or even recognized. And they are playing with real fire here, enraging the left, enraging the illegal immigrant community against law enforcement like they’re doing, and it should stop.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, great point. In fact, I had that discussion with someone earlier in the week, and we both agreed, yeah, this is beyond just the woke mob out there. It really does seem to entail virtually, if not all, of the Democratic Party. I wonder if the SPLC now is going to come out and label the Democratic Party a terrorist organization or some sort of hate group. We’ll probably not hold our breath for that to happen, but an interesting question anyways.
SPEAKER 04 :
so let me what is your reaction your response to uh governor newsom he’s calling these immigration raids inhumane how do you respond to that type of terminology you know governor newsom is the quintessential finger in the wind whatever he needs to do to maintain relevance and to secure political power that’s all he’s doing and he knows deep down that the open border has been a catastrophe for california You know, in some estimates, almost 30% of healthcare costs in California are because of freeloading illegal immigrants. I mean, your listeners need to answer this question. In the country, there are probably 25 to 30 million illegal aliens. Where do they get their healthcare? Where do they get their healthcare? It’s either in states like California on the government dole or they go to the emergency room and those costs are handed off to Americans. You know, Governor Newsom should know better. I was in California not too long ago and their state has been overrun by an illegal immigration swell that has really, really, it’s almost divided the state into two separate Californias. And it’s absolutely unacceptable. And so he knows better, I hope. And he is just trying to score cheap political points at the expense of his own state.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, very interesting perspective there. You know, when you look at all the violence that is intertwined in all of this, it certainly is not unique simply to California. I mean, this week we had 11 people arrested for attempted murder charges on an attempted ambush near Dallas. In fact, one officer there was shot in the neck. Are we watching, Congressman? I don’t know, some sort of version of defund the police 2.0. Is it that type of thing do you think that we’re witnessing with all of this?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, I think we have to come to grips with the fact that the Democratic Party, a greater percentage of that party is the radical left. And the radical left truly hates the structures that have enabled Western civilization to flourish. One of those is, of course, law and order. And whether it’s the border, whether it is coming down on violence, on vandalism, on assaulting our police, whatever it may be, it really enrages the extreme elements of the Democratic Party. And it’s a tremendous problem. But you look at the Democratic Party, look at their mayor, the candidate for mayor in New York City. He is an unapologetic, anti-Semitic communist. He has championed the phrase, globalized the Intifada. This is where the Democratic Party is now. And any type of traditional conservatism or American jurisprudence, American law enforcement, they really do get inflamed. And it’s a huge problem. But let me just put this one note in there. The violence that I’m most concerned about is not the crazy college kids who live in their parents’ basement. It is the violence that will come to our streets if we have open borders. Around the world, there are some of the most heinous people who are plotting to come, if they’re not here already, into the United States. And they lay dormant for a while. But you import the third world. You import people who want to cut people’s heads off or or shoot their rivals. That violence will show up in the American streets before too long. We’ve already seen the effects, whether it’s with drugs or human trafficking, but it is only going to grow worse if we don’t get ahead of this problem. So I commend the president absolutely. Yeah.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, great point, and I hope you heard it coming into this, but we’re talking about DHS Assistant Secretary Tricia McLaughlin actually has said that they’ve captured almost 600 known or suspected terrorists who have been arrested and some 2,700 members of the gang Trend de Aragua. You would think people would be happy that these type of individuals are being caught, apprehended. Tell me real quickly, you’ve got a couple of bills today that I want you to explain dealing with these type of things, and both of them have passed out of their respective committees. Real briefly, give us a highlight of what these bills are.
SPEAKER 04 :
The first bill, I think, is the most important piece of legislation for illegal immigration in this Congress. And it’s built on my experience as a federal prosecutor, and it essentially categorizes anyone who is here illegally in a separate slate if they commit a crime. If they’re convicted of a crime, they are subject to enhanced penalties. And then secondly, if they return to the country a second time illegally, they will be subjected to harsher penalties. And there are two goals here. One is to protect the American citizens from people who are here illegally that want to commit crimes. But second is to deter those from coming back a second time after deportation. I prosecuted people who returned more than a dozen times illegally because they don’t fear the American legal system. We must recognize this threat, address this threat, and hope to deter it into the future. The second bill I introduced, it basically tasks a study and then an action plan on how to deal with Trend Agua. They’re in about 15 different countries in the Western Hemisphere. They’re very proficient at embedding themselves in society, laying dormant and then metastasizing with violence, with drug trafficking, with human trafficking. And again, the Department of Homeland Security needs to study it and then put an action plan together on how to remove this this blight once and for all. So those are my two bills that we’ve gotten out of committee and the House will be voting on them soon, I hope.
SPEAKER 08 :
Outstanding. Those are two excellent bills. Congressman Bradnott, we want to keep a track on that. We’d love to have you come back on and keep us posted on how those are developing and how they’re moving forward. You know, and it comes at such a time, I’m sure you saw that data recently analyzed by the Center for Immigration Studies found that sanctuary states released some 25,000 criminal illegals back into our population between October and February. Just unbelievable. And then you have also what seems to be the left is okay with some 300,000 missing children that have come across the border and very few of them have been found. So this is just an unprecedented time that we’re living in. And I want to thank you for the incredible work that you’re doing there on Capitol Hill. We’ve got just 20 seconds. Your final thoughts before we take off.
SPEAKER 04 :
Thank you for having me, and I’ll just remind everybody, we have a precious country that we must steward. And if we don’t take immigration seriously, if we’re not carefully vetting people to come in, we’re going to pay the price, and we’ve got to do that. Protect legal immigrants and deter illegal. And that’s my final word.
SPEAKER 08 :
Congressman Brad Nutt, North Carolina, thank you so much for joining us. All right, friends, Mom for Liberty CEO will join me next. You don’t want to miss what’s coming up.
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The family is the oldest, most tested, and most reliable unit of society. It is divinely created and sustained. And yet, there are those who are always tampering with its values and structure. That’s why we need organizations like the Family Research Council that can effectively defend and strengthen the family.
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Family Research Council began over 40 years ago, like all great movements of God, with prayer. Today, rooted in the heart of the nation’s capital, FRC continues to champion faith, family, and freedom in public policy and the culture from a biblical worldview.
SPEAKER 07 :
FRC is one of those bright lights that helps us focus on true north. And I shudder to think, had they not been here, that it could have been worse, worse, worse.
SPEAKER 14 :
The Family Research Council is key. It’s one of a handful of groups that I think will determine whether our children live in a country that enjoyed all of the freedom and all the opportunity that we enjoyed in this great land.
SPEAKER 05 :
It’s just a wonderful parachurch organization that doesn’t seek to take the place of the church, but it seeks to assist the family and the church as we try to move forward successfully, not in a defensive mode, but in an offensive mode as we seek to live our lives according to the Holy Scriptures.
SPEAKER 01 :
FRC is not going to be whooped. You know, we’re going to fight. We’re going to take a stand. And again, we don’t retreat.
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You will never see in front of this building here in Washington, D.C., a white flag flying. We will never step back. We will never surrender. And we will never be silent.
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Hello, friends, this is Tony Perkins. You know what? We just finished our 21 day family Bible challenge through the book of Matthew. And if you joined us, I pray that it has already borne fruit in your life and in your home as you place the Lord and his word at the center of your home. Now, our journey through the Bible doesn’t end here, though. The challenge was a part of our Stand on the Word Bible reading plan. And from here, we’re going to cover the rest of the New Testament. And now that we’ve finished the book of Matthew, let me ask you, would you consider joining us for the rest of the journey through the Word of God? In 10 to 15 minutes a day, you’ll see how the good news of Jesus transformed the lives of common people, people just like you and me, and how those same people transformed the known world through the power of the Holy Spirit. I invite you to continue the journey with me and discover the life-enriching power of the Word of God. Visit frc.org slash Bible for a reading plan. That’s frc.org slash Bible to learn more.
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Welcome back to Washington Watch. Thank you so much for joining us today. I am Jody Heiss, your Friday host, and an honor to be with you. All right. Last weekend, the National Education Association held its 2025 representative assembly meeting in Portland, Oregon. And throughout the teachers union meeting, the delegates there doubled down on things like pushing to get LGBT events into more schools. how to usurp parents’ rights to know about their kids’ education. And that, in fact, even in spite of the fact that the Supreme Court recently spoke to that issue. But they did so much more. And of course, I guess predictably, they also, their delegates, voted to fight President Trump’s alleged fascism. So what else were they up to? Well, here to share more about this is Tina Descovitz. She’s the co-founder and CEO of Moms for Liberty. Tina, welcome to Washington Watch. Great to have you.
SPEAKER 25 :
Thanks, Jody, for having me on. I’m looking forward to chatting about the great National Education Association.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, let me start with this clip. I think this is a great place to start.
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Diversity, equity, and inclusion. Say the words. Say the words. Say them. Say them out loud. Wow.
SPEAKER 08 :
All right. So you were tracking this teachers union meeting. What struck you most about the proceedings that took place?
SPEAKER 25 :
What’s most striking about the NEA conferences every summer since I’ve been following what they’re doing is that they actually don’t discuss and don’t vote on anything that has to do with education. It’s quite remarkable. In the United States, about a third of fourth graders can read proficiently. You heard that right. One third can read proficiently. and yet they don’t address that issue at all they address things like you said in the intro about how to insert lgbtq curriculum even after the supreme court said just last week that parents can opt out we had one of our moms as a as a petitioner in a supreme court case from montgomery county maryland and parents you know the supreme court verified again that parents do have the fundamental right to raise their children and opt them out. And the NEA spends its time saying, no, parents, you don’t know best. Your children do need to learn LGBTQ and gender ideology. We need to teach them that they can be a boy or a girl, neither or both.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, it really is a stunning and alarming. It’s exceedingly alarming, the leadership of where the teachers union is going. And among other things, there’s so much we could discuss, but they basically are calling President Trump a fascist. Were you in any way surprised by the fact that delegates okayed that particular business item?
SPEAKER 25 :
Sometimes I’m shocked that I’m still shocked, to be honest. I’ve been following them for five or six years now. And even in the past few years, they vote on things like abortion. They’ve been voting on Middle East policies for several years now. What in the world does that have to do with education and teaching kids to read and write and do math? This year, they voted on numerous things that are astonishing. using the term fascism when referring to President Trump’s policies. Like you said, they voted to cut ties with anti-Semitism groups. They voted just on numerous things that have absolutely nothing to do with educating children.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, and I mean, that is a great point. That’s a question that they need to answer, quite frankly. You actually described the NEA as lighting the fire but playing victim. I thought that was a great word picture. Go a little bit further into depth as to what you mean by that.
SPEAKER 25 :
because the NEA and all the teachers unions, even local teachers unions, they come after Moms for Liberty and parents that are standing up for things like school choice or the right to raise their children, but most specifically school choice. They constantly say that parents that want to choose to homeschool or private school or public charter school are trying to destroy public education. And Moms for Liberty as a whole, they’ve been telling us since the day we launched that we are out to destroy public education. there couldn’t be anything further from the truth i served on a public school board for four years and i actually believe that there is a role for public education and it should serve the public well but the union says you’re trying to destroy public education meanwhile the union actually is spending all of their time on doing everything but educating children and you know i don’t want to jump all the way back to 2020 but let’s reflect on who is trying to keep schools closed the longest the la teachers union in 2020 and 2021 said they wouldn’t open until they agreed to defund the police. Again, absolutely nothing to do with education. They were holding children hostage. What we wanna see happen is that we want Congress to revoke their charter. They are the only labor union in the country that has a federal charter, is the National Education Association. And so you probably know a lot of people right now that we’re talking to on Capitol Hill that are drafting language right now to revoke this charter.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, I think that’s a great idea and something that certainly needs to happen. If there’s anyone who’s trying to destroy public education, it would be the NEA, quite frankly. As you referenced, they’re the ones that’s doing everything but education. So let me ask you, because you brought this up. Tina, what would your advice be to parents in our audience who are watching or listening right now who may not be able to feasibly homeschool their kids or put them in Christian private schools? What would you say to them?
SPEAKER 25 :
You have to do what’s best for your child and your family. And unfortunately, sometimes you are left with a public school option only. You have to be an involved parent. You have to be proactive, not reactive. These things are in your schools all across the country. We are in 48 states, 320 counties, and I will tell you, Parents are coming to us all the time with their children that have been harmed by policies where there’s boys in their daughter’s bathrooms, there’s boys in their daughter’s sports, lessons that have been taught to them that they can change their gender. These things are happening. And so if your child is still in public school, you must be proactive. Check those backpacks. Ask to see what they’re reading before they’re reading it. Ask to opt out. You can go to our website, MomsForTheReady.org. We’ve created forms and tools for you. children out. The Supreme Court has said it is your right to opt your children out of these things. We will help you do that. You have to take a stand and be a strong parent to protect them against what’s going on in public schools right now.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, I just want to say thank you, Tina, to you and everyone there at Moms for Liberty, a relatively young organization, but one that has just become a powerhouse in our country for standing up for the rights of moms and kids and education. And you’re so on the tip of the spear. I want to say thank you for the incredible work that each of you do there at Moms for Liberty. Tina Deskovich with Moms for Liberty. Thank you so much for joining us today on Washington Watch.
SPEAKER 25 :
Thanks, Jody, for having me on.
SPEAKER 08 :
You’re very welcome. God bless. All right. Coming up, the IRS’s facts and circumstances test was weaponized against conservatives during the Obama administration. Well, that test is still around and we’ll talk about it right after the break.
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The Center for Biblical Worldview’s all-day workshops delves into the formation of a worldview, what it is, how it’s formed, when it’s formed, what that means to them personally and their churches and communities.
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My hope for people when they come to these worldview workshops is that they will come away better equipped to engage the people and the ideas that they’re living with and around. And our goal is to give people more confidence in the gospel and the fact that what God said to us actually is true, actually is the path to happiness and human flourishing for all of us, but also more confidence in their ability to have these conversations and help lead other people to the truth.
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for Bible-believing Christians to know what God’s Word says on these issues and to learn how they can apply it to their lives. And we believe that the more Christians that we equip, that’s how we’ll change the nation.
SPEAKER 15 :
Hey, fam, listen, Pastor Sammy here at Lighthouse Church, and I cannot tell you how equipping, how empowering, how… incredibly educating this conference has been. And so I just want to encourage anybody that either has not been part of or is thinking about hosting this event, certainly to pastors, leaders, even CEOs for that matter. This conference is lights out. Stand behind it myself. I can’t commend it enough. We’re going to be talking about this for some time to come.
SPEAKER 22 :
The culture is kind of squeezing in on us as God’s people, forcing those of us with biblical views to change those views or to suppress those views. It’s forcing us to engage with issues that we’ve never had to engage with. And so what this teaches us is what those issues are, what the Bible says about those issues, and then how we can critically engage our culture on these things in a way that is committed to biblical principle.
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Visit frc.org slash worldview for more information.
SPEAKER 08 :
Welcome back to Washington Watch. Thank you so much for joining us today. I’m your host, Jody Heiss. All right. Earlier this month, a legal case brought against the IRS finally, finally got its day in court. And it could have some major implications down the road for countless conservative organizations. So what is the issue in this case? Well, here now to share more about it is Chris Gover. He’s the founding partner and CEO at Lex Politica, who represents the organization in this case. Chris, welcome to Washington Watch. Great to see you.
SPEAKER 18 :
Hey, Jody. How are you? Been too long.
SPEAKER 08 :
It has been too long. I know a lot of our viewers and listeners will not know this, but you and I have a history together ourselves. When I had to go before Fannie Willis’s grand jury, you were there defending me and did an excellent job then, as you have done with so many, and you continue your outstanding work, and it’s an honor to have you today. Thank you.
SPEAKER 18 :
Yeah, well, great. It’s great to see you. Great to see you here. So, you know, not in Fulton County courthouses and sham litigation.
SPEAKER 08 :
Hey, listen, you got that right. Underscore, underscore, underscore.
SPEAKER 18 :
But they say, you know, habits die hard. So can I bill you for this here?
SPEAKER 08 :
I’m not going to answer that one. Listen, let’s begin this because this is an important case you’re working on now. Let’s start, kind of jog our memory, if you would, Chris, on the 2014 IRS Lois Lerner scandal. Of course, she was then the director of the IRS’s exempt organizations unit. Fill us in a little bit of that.
SPEAKER 18 :
Yeah, so this case really goes back, you gotta look all the way back to 2010 and 2011. We founded a group called Freedom Path, a 501c4 issue advocacy organization that sought its tax exempt status with the IRS back in 2011. And then after years of delay of just waiting for the IRS to do something with this application, we suddenly get a letter in the mail that says we want to know more. Please send us a list of all of your donors and all of this really irrelevant information regarding the tax exempt status. So something was fishy there. It wasn’t long after that that the whole Lois Lerner scandal broke and we realized that this organization, Freedom Path, had been kind of targeted by Lois Lerner and her cronies because they had Freedom in the name. If you recall any group with Tea Party in the name, Freedom in the name, anything, I guess, you know, sounding, you know, too American for them, they would you know, target and hold. So this really dates back to that period of time. We filed a lawsuit against them in 2014 that has seen various courts and now 11 years later we actually had the most substantive hearing we’ve had and in this case, you know, since that time.
SPEAKER 08 :
Wow. All right, so we’ve got the facts and circumstances test and how it was used to weaponize the IRS against conservatives. Explain that to us.
SPEAKER 18 :
Yeah, so the IRS uses a test. This is not even a statutory test that originated with Congress. Rather, it’s kind of through interpretation and rulemaking through the IRS, and it’s been in existence for decades. But the IRS uses the so-called facts and circumstances test, which is an 11-factor test of a bunch of highly subjective factors that they frankly say they can weight it differently from one communication to the next or actually even take into consideration other factors that aren’t a part of the list. But this is the test that importantly determines is a group engaged in issue advocacy of the type that’s in furtherance of its tax exempt status, or is it engaged in some kind of political campaign intervention that could jeopardize that tax exempt status. And so what happens in practice with this really vague and subjective test is if you have an IRS agent that’s sitting there and they’re looking at a particular organization and judging its communications and its expenditures, the fact of the matter is that IRS agent can come to whatever conclusion they so desire because the test is so subjective in nature. that it’s basically, you can just use the test to find whatever conclusion you want to get to. And that’s what allows the IRS to really engage in a lot of these abuses because they can’t, they don’t have to stick to an objective standard that everybody on both sides understands. They can kind of hide behind the vagueness of it. And that’s where we see so many conservative organizations getting targeted unfairly by a bunch of government bureaucrats.
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay, so we’ve got about a minute and a half left here. In the midst of all that vagueness, Chris, what are you asking the courts to do? What are you hoping to come out with?
SPEAKER 18 :
What we’re wanting is the facts and circumstances test to be struck down as unconstitutional. We want there to be new rules in place that the IRS has to use to determine, you know, what is political campaign intervention? What is issue advocacy? In effect, we’re asking the IRS to do what the United States Supreme Court has already told the Federal Election Commission to do. Because the Federal Election Commission used to have a very similar test that was the result of the McCain-Feingold bill back in 2001. That test got struck down as unconstitutional by the United States Supreme Court. And basically the IRS kind of continues to run their very kind of analogous test. So we want the court to do the same. We want to create, you know, new rules to be drafted to make sure that target conservative organizations can’t be entirely fairly targeted in the future.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, Chris Gober, CEO of Lex Politica, I want to thank you so much again. Let me just say it for the outstanding work you’ve done and you continue to do. This has got to come to a stop. IRS targeting of conservative organizations. And thank you right now for leading that charge. We’re certainly going to be keeping a close watch on this. Thank you for joining us on Washington Watch.
SPEAKER 18 :
All right. Thanks, Jody.
SPEAKER 08 :
All right, on the other side of the break, FRC’s David Claussen is going to be joining me for our weekly Biblical Worldview discussion. And boy, we’ve got a lot to talk about, so don’t go anywhere. We’ll be back on the other side of the break. Stay tuned.
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Family Research Council is committed to advancing faith, family, and freedom from the East Coast to the West. So FRC is going to Southern California for this year’s Pray, Vote, Stand Summit, October 17th and 18th at Calvary Chapel, Chino Hills. Join us for this powerful gathering of Christians desiring cultural renewal and spiritual revival. The Pray, Vote, Stand Summit brings together Christian leaders, issue experts, and government officials for a time of prayer, inspiration, and action. Together, we will seek God’s guidance for our nation and engage in meaningful discussions on the intersection of faith, government, and culture. If the spiritual foundations and the cultural walls of our nation are to be rebuilt, we all have a role to play. May we each find our place on the wall as we build for biblical truth. Register now at PrayVoteStand.org. That’s PrayVoteStand.org.
SPEAKER 12 :
Jennifer, it’s so exciting to be here with you today talking about our new book, Embracing God’s Design. Who is actually going to benefit from reading this book in your view?
SPEAKER 23 :
There’s so many different audiences that can benefit. The first one are counselors themselves, because we have some material in there where we really address the gender dysphoria diagnosis and what is wrong with it. We have information for people who are wanting to go back to embracing God’s design for their life.
SPEAKER 12 :
This is really magical to have the therapist and the individual who suffered come together and write about why this is happening and why we’re seeing this.
SPEAKER 23 :
And we brought all of that experience to the table. We want to see people walking in the fullness of who God has called them to be and not a false identity.
SPEAKER 07 :
Order today at embracethedesign.com.
SPEAKER 02 :
How should Christians think about the thorny issues shaping our culture? How should Christians address deceitful ideas like transgenderism, critical theory, or assisted suicide? How can Christians navigate raising children in a broken culture, the war on gender roles, or rebuilding our once great nation? Outstanding is a podcast from The Washington Stand dedicated to these critical conversations. Outstanding seeks to tear down what our corrupt culture lifts up with an aim to take every thought and every idea captive to the obedience of Christ. Whether policies or partisan politics, whether conflict in America or conflict abroad, join us and our guests as we examine the headlines through the lens of Scripture and explore how Christians can faithfully exalt Christ Thank you for joining us today on Washington Watch.
SPEAKER 08 :
I’m your Friday host, Jody Heiss. And before I get to my final guest, I’ve got an action item for you. And I really hope you’ll pay attention to this. The Trump administration has signaled its intent to cut the some woke programs specifically from PEPFAR. Now you’ve heard us talk a lot about PEPFAR. Some of you may not know what that stands for. PEPFAR is the President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief. So we call it PEPFAR for short. But it’s being changed all around. Its intent is to provide some life-changing and life-saving treatment, but it is not intended to, which it is now being used as, to promote abortion and all sorts of radical ideologies. And so the rescissions act that just went through certainly is a step in the right direction. But there’s a major lobbying campaign that’s underway right now to shame Republican senators into rejecting any cuts whatsoever to PEPFAR. So we need you. to contact the Senate to stop PEPFAR from funding abortion, from funding LGBT advocacy, and all these things that it was not intended to fund. So you can be a part of this. Simply text the word PEPFAR. That’s P-E-P-F-A-R. PEPFAR.org. to 67742, and we’ll send you a link so that your voice can be heard. Again, that’s PEPFAR to 67742. All right. No shortage of items in the news this week, as we all know, and they all deserve our attention, our thoughtful attention as Christians, and to look at these items through the lens of Scripture. And we like to do that each week here on this program, ending the week with a biblical worldview segment, looking at the highlights of the week through a biblical perspective. And joining us today is David Claussen, who joins us most every Friday. Of course, he is the director here at the Center for Biblical Worldview at the Family Research Council. He’s also the author of the recent book, Life After Roe, Equipping Christians in the Fight for Life Today. David, as always, welcome back to the program. Great to have you.
SPEAKER 17 :
Happy Friday. Great to be with you, Jody.
SPEAKER 08 :
happy friday to you as well all right david i i don’t know where else to start we have to begin with the aftermath of the floods in texas at this point some 120 plus lives most are telling us that number is likely to exceed 200 and almost immediately when all this happened david i was i was offended i was hurt i was upset that the media almost immediately began to blame President Trump for the Texas floods and somehow politicize all of this. That’s kind of become the national way, the political way to deal with these sorts of things. But on the other hand, you saw Christians responding in an entirely different way, from prayer vigils to mourning and praying and getting their feet and hands dirty trying to help out So let me just 30,000 foot view your reaction from those two perspectives on the Texas floods this week.
SPEAKER 17 :
Yeah, Jody, as Christians, our first impulse, our first response is really the biblical category of lament. Romans 12, 15 says that we mourn with those who mourn. And when you’re thinking about just the scale of this tragedy and the innocent loss of life, you know, as Christians, we lament. We lament the pain and the grief. I can’t imagine, you know, Jody, I’m a new father and in the… The idea that some of these parents are getting calls that their young girls, you know, that the Christian girls camp, Camp Mystic, were washed away in the flood. That is just horrifying. It’s unimaginable. And of course, as you said, the media’s impulse to politicize it. You know, this is we’ve seen this show before whenever there’s kind of a mass shooting or a natural disaster. In the case of a shooting, the discussion immediately goes to guns. In the case of a natural disaster, you hear talk about climate change. And, you know, we can have those debates, but in the immediate aftermath, I think as Christians, We lament, we grieve, we empathize. You mentioned that prayer vigil. I actually watched clips of that this morning. You know, that’s what Christians do. We go to our Father in a posture of trust. We come alongside one another. We bear each other’s burdens. And I think for those of us around the country, we just need to continue to pray for our brothers and sisters who are walking through something that really is unimaginable.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, David, I had personally two members of Congress, and I’ll not mention their names right now, but one of them had two of his daughters who were at Camp Mystic during that time. The other had two granddaughters that were there. Fortunately, those daughters and granddaughters were saved, but one of the cousins died. of one of those members was not saved. She lost her life. And I had some believers on the ground that we have been in touch with, and some of them contacted me miraculously. They had found some of the personal items from the little cousin who lost her life, and we were able to work out with the family. And just yesterday, those items were delivered on the front door of their home. But the mourning that you described is so real and so deep, and the prayers of the body of Christ across this country, the involvement of Christians has been so encouraging, and I think you were spot on with that. I think we could spend the… rest of our time on the Texas floods. But if I can, David, let me transition a little. Let me stay in Texas. At least we’ll stay in Texas. But Baylor University, they’ve had quite an interesting week this week. They had an LGBTQ research grant, but because of so much opposition, they have rescinded that grant and sent back the money. Tell us what’s going on there at Baylor.
SPEAKER 17 :
Yeah, for anyone who missed this story on June 30th, Baylor University put out a press release kind of celebrating a grant of $643,000. So again, this is no small grant. This is a significant grant and the grant was given to promote LGBT inclusion and belonging in the church. Now, it’s interesting, Jodi, again, this June 30th press release no longer exists because, as you mentioned, after the backlash, the university has said, we won’t accept the grant anymore. But let me go back to that press release. Even though it doesn’t exist anymore, I have some screenshots. And here’s really interesting what this, again, $643,000 was going to go towards at a historically Baptist university. Here’s what the press release said, Jodi. It says, Through academic research, this grant will help us better understand the disenfranchisement and exclusion of LGBTQIA plus individuals and women within congregations to nurture institutional courage and foster change. And it goes on to talk about how many LGBTQIA plus individuals and women experience institutional betrayal within their faith communities And it says, you know, the whole point of this study that they were going to do was going to try to help congregations develop greater sensitivity and trauma-informed approaches to ministry for, again, those who identify on the whole alphabet soup of LGBTQ issues. And again, so this kind of research grant sounds like what you would expect from a far-left progressive university. You can be excused for thinking this is the kind of research you think maybe Union Theological Seminary or some other really progressive school might do. Not Baylor, though, because Baylor is still affiliated with the General Baptist Convention of Texas, which, by the way, affirms the Baptist Faith and Message 2000, which has a very strong position on human sexuality and marriage. And so again, after the backlash, Jody, they’ve said that they won’t take the money, they’ll give it back. But I guess the final thing I’d add, this isn’t too surprising to me. It was exactly 10 years ago that Baylor kind of quietly eliminated from its student code of conduct a clause that had explicitly prohibited homosexual behavior. It was a really clear statement and they replaced it with a really watered down statement. And so again, I think this is a cautionary tale. I think Baylor still feels this connection to their Baptist heritage, but it’s kind of trying to sit on the fence and have it both ways, so to speak. So I’m grateful that the pushback resulted in kind of Baylor getting a little pie on their face and being embarrassed by this. But when you have really watered down statements on sexuality, it’s not a real sign of health for the organization.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, and I had not seen the post that you just read. That was very interesting. One of the things that stuck out to me while you were reading it is how they referred to individuals and women as though women are not individuals to start with. There is something that’s being said even in that kind of statement. They made it a couple of times. If I can, David, let’s switch gears. Let’s go to a little bit broader topic from the IRS. making the announcement this week regarding the Johnson Amendment, which, by the way, is the whole issue that drove me to Congress as a pastor to begin with. But this decision, it was made in a court filing in an ongoing lawsuit in Texas. It provides a carve out in the Johnson Amendment. Tell us a little bit about that.
SPEAKER 17 :
Well, Jody, I just again want to congratulate you. I know that this is an issue that you’ve been advocating on for years. Like you said, it got you into politics. I know you were on the program earlier this week with Tony, and I would commend our viewers and listeners to go watch the conversation the two of you had with Congressman Mark Harris, a Southern Baptist pastor from North Carolina. But for those who might be unfamiliar with the whole history here, Jody, this is a provision of the tax code that was introduced in 1954 by then Senator Lyndon Johnson. He really put it in the tax code because he was upset that two nonprofits in Texas opposed his reelection for the U.S. Senate. But again, over the decades, again, this provision basically says nonprofits, including churches, can’t engage in direct politicking, endorsing candidates, things like that. But again, it’s had a real chilling effect on pastors. And in my view, you know, pastors still had broad free speech protection. But think about organizations like the Family Research Council. I’ve been here long enough to go through a couple of election cycles. Every, you know, two years we’ll have to put out information for pastors, kind of the do’s and don’ts, because people are legitimately nervous about losing tax-exempt status. And so one of the things that groups like FRC Action will do in an election is try to help people navigate that, because it’s a real fear that I think the left successfully kind of was able to weaponize against us. And so that’s why this is such a big deal, Jody. On July 8th, like you said, the IRS filed what’s called a consent decree. that essentially clarifies that churches have these free speech rights. A pastor now can endorse, if they want to, from the pulpit. And, of course, we can talk about the wisdom and propriety of that, but I think it’s always been ridiculous bordering on unconstitutional to threaten churches over their free speech rights.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, and religious liberty. I mean, if there is anywhere where religious liberty, the epicenter of that is a church, and the centerpiece of that, obviously, is the pulpit. As you bring that up, not surprisingly, a lot of people on the left are not excited about this announcement. People like Governor Gavin Newsom, for example. I want to play a clip for you of what he had to say when he was asked about this by a reporter. Let’s play this clip, and we’ll get your reaction.
SPEAKER 11 :
called gaming the system in every way. I mean, it’s pretty, I think it’s pretty cynical that the IRS just all of a sudden changes those rules. I don’t know if it’s healthy. I don’t even know that it’s legal, but it’s unsurprising and I just find it politically convenient and cynical.
SPEAKER 08 :
Interesting to me. I’ve never seen Governor Newsom in a church. Maybe he’s been there before. I’m not saying he hasn’t. But he’s making this statement with stained glass behind him and all the all. All right. So give me your reaction to this. Is it gaming the system, according to Governor Newsom?
SPEAKER 17 :
Well, no. And Jody, here’s the thing. Again, this Johnson Amendment really has created kind of a culture of fear and confusion amongst conservative, theologically conservative evangelical pastors. And that is so rich from the governor. I have to add, this is someone who has weaponized Scripture. pulled it out of context to really advance his own political agenda, putting up billboards in states around the countries to support abortion rights. Again, very, very rich. But again, we need to be clear about one thing, Jody. This whole talk about pastors using the pulpit for politics, the conversation seems to only go one way for decades. Historically, black churches have invited politicians to essentially hold campaign rallies in their churches. Think about 2008 Obama campaign surrogate, or I guess I should say pastor, Jeremiah Wright, using his pulpit to talk about those issues. You have Raphael Warnock, senator from Georgia, who launched your home state, Jody, who launched his political career from the pulpit of Ebenezer Baptist Church. And so, again, the criticism about the Johnson Amendment, it only really seems to be directed towards those who are on the political right. And so I can I think the fact that the IRS has made this decision, it evens the playing field.
SPEAKER 08 :
All right, so let’s go into this. Only less than a couple of minutes that we have, David. What do you say to pastors who practically, what would you say to them, advise them moving forward once this is a done deal? Is this going to change their ministry in terms of shepherding their flock?
SPEAKER 17 :
I don’t think so, Jody. Again, all this says is pastors have their free speech rights, they have religious freedom protections. Again, I believe that the church and the state, I believe in the doctrine of sphere sovereignty, that they have independent authority that exists directly from God. It’s a delegated authority from God. The church doesn’t have to get permission from the state to exist. Now, do I want my pastor on election day to go through a ballot in the pulpit telling, you know, to vote for water commissioner and everything along the ballot, that probably would be unwise in many situations. But I can imagine, Jody, in some situations where it might be prudent. I think 1930s Germany, I think it would have been appropriate for a pastor to tell his congregation from the pulpit, vote against the guy running against the Nazis. And so, again, I think this comes to it’s an issue of propriety. It’s an issue of wisdom. And I think what’s exciting about this is now pastors in consultation with their elders and folks in their leadership, they can decide what is right and appropriate come election time.
SPEAKER 08 :
Excellent information, David Clawson. Thank you, as always, for bringing a biblical perspective to the news highlights of the week. It’s always great to have you. Hope you have a wonderful weekend.
SPEAKER 17 :
Thank you. God bless.
SPEAKER 08 :
God bless you as well. All right, David Claussen, Director of the Center for Biblical Worldview here at FRC. Hope you have a fantastic weekend. We’ll be back at it next week here on Washington Watch, so we’ll see you then. Have a great weekend. God bless.
SPEAKER 16 :
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