Join Bob George in this episode as he addresses pressing theological questions from listeners. Delve into the essence of faith and salvation, as Bob sheds light on Hebrews’ teachings about the Sabbath rest, challenging the concept of losing one’s faith, and exploring how these biblical insights apply to our everyday struggles. Discover the beauty of resting in the accomplished work of Christ, liberated from the need to earn forgiveness or righteousness, as Bob advises listeners to trust in the complete work of Jesus. Moreover, this episode tackles the controversial notion of physical healing within the atonement and Bob’s firm
Welcome to Classic Christianity Radio with Bob George. Today we are pleased to present a special radio show featuring call-in listeners from Bob’s original people-to-people daily radio program that was on the air for over 30 years, offering real answers for real-life problems as he addresses common questions as well as the tough issues of today, directing callers to the centrality of Christ in you, your only hope of glory. We want to remind our listeners that Bob George Ministries needs your financial support to continue to have Classic Christianity Radio on the air. Please visit BobGeorge.net to find out how you can help support us financially. Let’s now join Bob as he presents practical biblical insights as he helps people experience a life of faith, hope, and love in Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER 07 :
Houston, Texas. Let’s go on KCTA. Craig, you’re on the air.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, well, thank you for taking my call.
SPEAKER 07 :
You’re welcome, Craig.
SPEAKER 06 :
I have one, well, I guess it deals with the issue of some of the things that I actually talked about in the book of Hebrews and dealing with the third chapter. And God is basically speaking to us as brethren, holy brothers, to take over the heavenly calling. So it’s talking to believers. And it’s telling believers, basically, that God was upset with the children of Israel, that he had delivered them from Israel. I’m sorry, Egypt. He had delivered them out, and that they all trusted in him, they all believed in him, up until the point where there was trials and tribulations, and then they started to err. They started to err in their ways and in their heart, he says. But he said that he delivered them but because of their disobedience and everything, that they would not enter his rest. So my question basically is that if a person has faith, which means basically trusting and believing and relying upon faith in God, trusting in God, believing in God, one day, is it possible for those same people to lose faith? Because the Bible tells us that the just shall live by faith. So if a person loses their faith, They can have their faith at one time, but they lose their faith. Is it possible for them to enter into the rest that Jesus has made a promise?
SPEAKER 07 :
Howard, your example that you’ve given is an example of the children of Israel being rescued out of Egypt into the desert, and they wandered in the desert for 40 years, refusing to go into the Sabbath rest. Mm-hmm. Because of their unbelief and Joshua had to lead them into Canaan. He had to. He was one, not Moses, but Joshua. And so you have that is a perfect picture of our salvation. When you’re saved, you’re saved from the bondage of Egypt. You’re saved from being a slave and you’re now free. But you’re in the desert, and you can either stay in the desert, as the Jews did, or you can enter into the Sabbath rest, resting from your works just as he did from his. So as we were talking about this whole thing, and it talks about in chapter 4 that Joshua, if Joshua had given them rest, then God would not have spoken later about another day, but there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. For anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. Let us therefore make every effort to enter that rest so that no one will fall by following their example of unbelief or disobedience. So what you’re dealing with there is a person, most of us, spend a great deal of time after our salvation, getting out of Egypt, in the desert and I think the desert is the route that we all have to take because I think we come to Christ as self-sufficient people and then we become self-sufficient Christians and we have to lose that self-sufficiency and quit trying to work in order to gain instead of realizing that God has already given us everything that we need for life and godliness and therefore to enter into that and quit trying to work to accomplish what He has already accomplished. I cannot make myself more forgiven. I cannot be less forgiven. I can’t give myself more life. I cannot lose the life that he gave me. I cannot make myself more righteous. I stand clothed in his righteousness.
SPEAKER 04 :
I agree with you.
SPEAKER 07 :
And that’s what the Sabbath rest is all about, is standing and resting in what he has provided for you rather than you’re trying to provide it on your own.
SPEAKER 06 :
Then what is the labor that he’s speaking of?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, he said the work of… When they asked Jesus what the work of the ministry was, he said to believe in me. And that is the work of the ministry, is faith in him.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay, so believing means to trust him. So therefore, if a person’s not trusting Jesus, meaning in a situation, then they’re not really believing in him.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, again, there’s a difference there, Craig, that we have. I want to enter, and in fact, I have to say that in my own life that I have entered into a Sabbath rest in regard to what God has provided for me. I am not asking Him to… to do anything over and above what he’s already done. I’m resting in the completed work of Christ at the cross. I’m not trying to make myself more forgiven. And I know that I can’t be less forgiven. I’m a forgiven person. I’m resting.
SPEAKER 06 :
My question has to do then. So if the work has already been done and there’s nothing I can do, He’s already done it all. Then what would be the issue of me even praying? I know relationship-wise there should be a relationship. There should be a hunger there.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, if you have someone who has absolutely provided everything that you need for life and godliness, what do you say to them? Do you talk to them like you would your best friend? And you say, why do you pray? Well, because you’re talking to someone who did something for you that you couldn’t do for yourself.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, I agree with you. But without those things being done, there’s no relationship. Wouldn’t you agree?
SPEAKER 07 :
Without what?
SPEAKER 06 :
Without me. If he saved me, which he did, I thank God for that. Ain’t no guilt. He had. And by grace, I’ve been saved through faith. My faith is what I’m talking about. If a person says, I have faith. But there’s no work. There’s no prayer. Then that person is really, truly not saved.
SPEAKER 07 :
No. No, not necessarily, Craig. We can’t necessarily go around as fruit inspectors determining who’s saved and not. It’s the object of your faith. It’s not your faith that saves you. It’s the object of your faith. Christ is the object of your faith. As we walk through our life, how many times a day do you not exercise faith in Jesus Christ in regard to day-to-day type activities, in regard to what you ought to do or what you ought to say, how you ought to say it, those type of things? It’s not that you’re not resting.
SPEAKER 06 :
You have to mature.
SPEAKER 07 :
What is your question here, Greg? You ask me a question and never give me a chance to answer it, so I can’t have a difficulty with that.
SPEAKER 06 :
The question is basically this, once again. If a person has faith in God on one day… Okay, what do you have faith in God for? for saving of the soul.
SPEAKER 07 :
Okay, so you’ve placed your faith in the fact that Jesus took away your sins at the cross, and you’ve placed your faith in the fact that he was raised from the dead, and that that resurrection life came and raised you from the dead. And you’re walking by faith in that truth that you’re now a living person in Christ Jesus.
SPEAKER 06 :
Exactly. I am trusting God for that. Now, something goes in my life, and now I’m not trusting in him that he’s done that for me.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, I don’t think that’s possible. In other words, it says in the Scripture that they went out from among us because they weren’t a part of us. So that’s not possible for you for one moment to say, I believe that Jesus died for all my sins, and the next moment say, no, I don’t believe he did, because that means you didn’t believe it to begin with.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, I remember Paul saying Didymus, which was one of Paul’s co-workers in the gospel, and Paul spoke about Didymus many, many times, multiple times, about his work in the gospel, his saving of his soul, and then later on it says that he left us loving the world. And we all know he said, love not the world, but anybody who loves the world, the love of the Father is not in them. So Paul had somebody that was working with him that Paul said, this is a believer who left him and went back into the world.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, if he went back into the world, then he wasn’t a believer.
SPEAKER 06 :
Then how was it that Paul said that he was a believer?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, I don’t think Paul did say he was a believer. I think that what you’d know more than Jesus would have said that Judas was a believer. He was a follower. You had a lot of professors of Christ but not possessors. Craig, we’re not getting any place here. I hate talks like this because we’re not getting any place. We’re not specific in a question. It seems like you’re, you know, it’s kind of a, I don’t know what you’re talking about. So we’re just not getting any place in the conversation. So I don’t know what to do with you on there. So… What I’m going to do is to ask you to talk to one of our counselors off the air and let us move on because I just cannot comprehend. Maybe it’s me. It probably is, but I can’t comprehend what you’re getting at, so we’re going to move on. Let’s go to Watkins, Colorado, listening on KLTT. Scott, you’re on the air.
SPEAKER 05 :
Hi, Bob. Good to talk to you.
SPEAKER 07 :
Good to talk to you, Scott.
SPEAKER 05 :
I hear on the radio from time to time, and there’s a lady that comes on out here, about healing in the atonement, how… And our faith is supposed to be directed towards combating, I guess you’d say, sicknesses that are brought on by the devil, etc.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, in the first place, Jesus didn’t come to atone for sin. He came to take away sin. There’s a world of difference in those two. Blood and bulls and goats atone for sin. And we’re putting Jesus on the same par with a bull and goat when you say that he came to atone for sin. So there is no atonement. Jesus didn’t come to atone for sin. He came to take it away. Secondly, dealing with him, taking away sins, has nothing to do with physical healing at all, not even in the context of Old Testament or New. The context does not have anything at all to say with or to do with physical healing. Jesus certainly did not take away disease. He certainly did not take away sin, didn’t take away death. He just came to deal with it, and that’s exactly what he did. He came to God who is in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not counting their sins against him. So this whole stuff that there’s healing in the atonement is just plain not biblical, not physical healing.
SPEAKER 05 :
It’s obvious when we come to Christ that there’s a change in our physical body in terms of spiritual, I guess the spiritual component.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, I think that, you know, I’ve noticed a lot of things bodily in Christians. I think they stay younger looking. And that’s a Christian that’s walking in the spirit. And I don’t think if you’re going to say I’m a Christian and keep sucking up booze and all that type of thing, you’re going to look like a booze drinker and a cigarette smoker. That’s the way. After a while, you puff on those things long enough, you’re going to get wrinkles around your face and everything else. And people look like that. And I find a lot of people who are not engaged in those activities, whether they’re Christian or not, they look younger. But again… This body of ours is going downhill, and there’s no reversing of this. You’re going to be sagging and bagging and everything else. The older you get, you’re going to have wrinkles. You’re not going to be able to see as well. There’s all kinds of things that are taking place to this body that’s being prepared for the grave. But the soul and the spirit, that is what God came to save.
SPEAKER 05 :
The part that seems most offensive to me is when the… I’d like to be able to address it from the scriptures, but it’s just so offensive to me when they make my personal faith an issue in healing maybe a sickness that I have. Well, and then most of them, as far as my spiritual life.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, and most of them are sitting there teaching that with glasses on. Well, they cure their eyesight. And if they don’t have glasses, they’ve got a rug on top of their head. Why don’t they grow some hair? It seems like that would be a pretty easy thing for God to do, wouldn’t it to you? So, again, that’s all just a bunch of phony talk.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, it’s kind of offensive.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, it is to me too, brother.
SPEAKER 01 :
Good for your call. Thank you, brother. Classic Christianity Radio is a listener-funded program, and because of your generous donations, we are able to be on the air. Go to bobgeorge.net to order the life-changing audio CD series, The New Covenant, Law and Grace, and How to Have a Proper Self-Image. These series are essential to understanding our inheritance in Christ, what it means to experience freedom and the abundant life in Christ, living under grace, not under the law, and to see ourselves as God sees us, as a completely forgiven person, loved perfectly and righteous in His sight. Please visit bobgeorge.net for additional information on how you can join us financially and help support the radio ministry. With your prayers and support, we can continue to share the good news of Jesus Christ. Let’s continue now with our classic Christianity radio program.
SPEAKER 07 :
Atlanta, Georgia, listening on WGUN. Michael, you’re on the air.
SPEAKER 03 :
Hey, Bob, George, how are you doing?
SPEAKER 07 :
Fine, thanks, Mike.
SPEAKER 03 :
And Bob Davis, how are you doing?
SPEAKER 07 :
Fine, Mike. Good to hear from you. Thanks.
SPEAKER 03 :
Good to hear from you, too. Of course, you recognize my voice because I’m one of the regular callers. So I do have a question I want to ask you in pertaining. I know I sit here with some of the preachers on the radio who talk about if, because I know we’re new creatures in Christ, we have a new identity, and we’re righteous in the sight of God as Jesus is. But, of course, we have a sinful nature. Now, when we sin, do we, of course, from my understanding, according to reading your scripture, and maybe you can edify or shed some light to me on this, do we sin against God? That’s my question. I’m assuming we do, according to our sinful nature. But I just want to get your input on it.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, let me see if we can think it through together. How would you sin against God? Well, we have a sinful nature. I know that, but how do you sin against God?
SPEAKER 03 :
Very easy. We can do things that are contrary to His will.
SPEAKER 07 :
Okay, and I like what?
SPEAKER 03 :
I mean, if you go out and steal.
SPEAKER 07 :
Okay, now if you go out and steal, have you sinned against the person you’ve stolen from, or have you sinned against God? Both. Okay. Well, then you’ve got the answer to your question. You’ve sinned against your neighbor by not believing what God said when he said, don’t steal. Right. But the issue is that had you not gone out and violated your neighbor, you wouldn’t have sinned. Right. So, in other words, all sin, the root of all sin, the root of it is unbelief in God. The fruit of it is all over the place. Mm-hmm. But the root of all sin is unbelief. We have stopped trusting what God said and decided to go out on our own and do our own thing. Mm-hmm. Now, the issue is that if you have gone out and stolen from somebody, you have offended the brother, haven’t you? Mm-hmm. Now, what does God say to do about that?
SPEAKER 03 :
cut it out.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, cut it out and go to work and work with your hands and give some money that you earn to help people in need with it. He might also say that if you have stolen to go back to the person and return what you’ve stolen and ask for their forgiveness and move on. There’s a lot of things that God may be telling you to do in those incidents and you have to be sensitive to what he’s saying to us. So the issue is that as far as God is concerned, it really doesn’t make much difference whether you’re stealing or committing adultery or what you’re doing because the root of that sin is I decided not to believe God and to believe Satan. Now, we’re down to this point. Was that sin covered at the cross? Taken away at the cross. Yes, it was. Yeah. So is God dealing with you on the basis of sin and death today?
SPEAKER 03 :
No, he’s not.
SPEAKER 07 :
No, he’s not. So again, what is our response then to God when we’ve gone out and stolen from somebody because we didn’t believe God?
SPEAKER 03 :
That would be sinning against them, wouldn’t it?
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, but we have to. But again, you see, we’ve sinned against our brother, you see, out here on earth. Now, you see, religion says, pay no attention to what you’ve done to your brother. Just get things straightened out with God. God says that, friend, your problem is that you stop trusting me. Now, you see, not that you stole, but you stopped trusting me. The stealing’s a byproduct of not trusting me. You could have been doing all kinds of sins, but the root of that sin is unbelief. So again, now I don’t want to continue walking in unbelief, which is what most Christians do today, continue adding insult upon injury by continuing to walk in their unbelief by asking God, therefore, to do what he’s already done.
SPEAKER 04 :
Hmm.
SPEAKER 07 :
Now, not only did I function in unbelief by not believing him when he said don’t steal, now I’m functioning in unbelief when I’m saying to him, Lord, I want you to die on the cross and forgive that again. So, again, what he’s saying to us is this. I took away that sin 2000 years ago, Bob, and I’m not dealing with you on the basis of sin and death today. If I was, you’d be a goner. I’ve already taken that away at the cross. So there’s no nothing more for me to do. There is something left for you to do, but there’s nothing left for me to do. I’ve already done everything I’m going to do in regard to your sin of unbelief. I died for it. I’m not going to do anything else.
SPEAKER 03 :
Now, there’s a situation in Ephesians, I think, where it talks about grieving the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER 07 :
That’s totally out of context. We’re not talking about that context right now. We’ll hit about that in just a minute. Okay. So he’s saying to you, I have already done everything that there is to do in regard to that sin. I died for it.
SPEAKER 04 :
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 07 :
I’m not going to die again for it. Right. And I took it away. Now, how are you going to respond to that? Are you going to now ask me to do what I’ve already done? No, that wouldn’t make sense. No. Or are you going to thank me for the fact that I’ve already dealt with that? I would thank you. You’re going to thank me. Right. Now that that’s out of the way, I’m dealing with you now on the basis of a new life. And in this new life, you’ve offended your brother here on this earth that also probably happens to be my child.
SPEAKER 04 :
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 07 :
Now go straighten it out. Go to work. Work with your hands. Or return what you’ve stolen. Like I say, a lot of things he could be telling us. But you see, religion gets you all involved in what we do here instead of turning by faith into what he has done. Now, when you’re dealing back in that Ephesian passage of grieving the Holy Spirit, what’s the context of that? Feuding and fighting and fussing with your brothers and sisters in Christ. If you have children… Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So if every time that we sinned, it grieved the heart of God, he would be one grieved God when you stop to think of the sin going on in the world today. But what he’s saying is, I want you to love one another. And when you’re not loving one another and you’re feuding and fighting and fussing with each other as my children and blasting my family and slandering each other as brothers and sisters in Christ, it grieves my heart. It grieves my heart to see people blasting other people who are in Christ Jesus. Now, you may not agree with what they say, and there’s nothing wrong with saying that you don’t agree with what they say, but we should always keep in mind to hate the sin and to love the sinner. And when we don’t, it grieves the heart of God.
SPEAKER 03 :
Greed is a heart, meaning it doesn’t make him upset or it just makes him… Just like it would a father today.
SPEAKER 07 :
It grieves him to see people who have been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb out feuding and fighting and fussing with each other.
SPEAKER 03 :
It doesn’t mean that he’s angry with them.
SPEAKER 07 :
No, no.
SPEAKER 03 :
It doesn’t mean that God’s angry with you when you’re sinning.
SPEAKER 07 :
He is grieved at your behavior. And the reason he’s grieved at your behavior is because, once again, you’re not trusting him with what he said. He said to love one another.
SPEAKER 03 :
So, okay, now having said that, with the other one, when… When a person, a child of God, has already his sins taken away, and you sin, you’re not sinning against God, you’re sinning against a brother. Correct.
SPEAKER 07 :
Your number one thing, you have sinned against your brother. You’ve sinned against another person.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, it’s not against God.
SPEAKER 07 :
The root of that sin was, I was not believing God.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER 07 :
You got the fruit and the root.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, okay. Okay? And the root is taken away, but the fruit…
SPEAKER 07 :
No, no, no. The sins against the man was taken away at the cross. The root of the sin is unbelief in God. That needs to be repented of. That is something that we need to continually be going to God. On a regular basis, we’re going to God to get our heads straightened out. Why? We’re dumb as mules. I’ve been the Lord for 30 years. I’m still dumb as a mule sometimes. And so we have to realize that.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, so my point is the unbelief, okay, unbelief, that would be the only root of sin that would be left is unbelief, is what you’re saying. Maybe I’m getting a little confused with you.
SPEAKER 07 :
Michael, to the lost person, the sin of unbelief is the only sin that was not forgiven. That’s an unforgivable sin, is the sin of unbelief. Now, as a child of God, we walk in our flesh, and the flesh, we have our flesh and we have the Spirit. When we do not give in to the truth of the Spirit, we walk in the error of the flesh. And when that occurs… that then we normally sin against one another. Whether we’re sinning against God or not, that’s irrelevant. He’s already taken it away. The issue is now what I want to do is to get back to truth and let truth set me free.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, thanks a lot for your patience.
SPEAKER 07 :
Okay, bye-bye now. Let’s go to Pittsburgh, listening on WWNL. Bill, you’re on the air.
SPEAKER 02 :
How’s it going today?
SPEAKER 07 :
Good, Bill, thank you.
SPEAKER 02 :
I have a quick question for you. I go to school in Pittsburgh. It’s a Christian school. Christian school, and we’re learning a lot about feminists and theology. And I just, they’re talking a lot about how the language of the Bible and how the language of how we pray and all that is very male-based. And I was just, I don’t know, I was curious of like what’s going on with it, why they’re coming to this now, why they want to change the language of these scriptures that have been written and followed for so long.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, I’d like to just say because they’re stupid. That probably would be my original deal is because they’re stupid. A fool says in their heart there is no God, and that’s exactly what they are. They’re fools. They are not accepting how the Bible was written. The Bible was written by the hand of God. It was not written by man. And so whatever God wrote, that is what truth is. And so all of this is just merely an attempt, Bill, to get students like yourself to not have any confidence in the validity or the inerrancy of the Word of God. Very, very clever to do. You just start with some light stuff and then just keep going on and on and on. I’d get out of that school so fast and I’d let people know what’s going on in that school. I would let people, I would let the leadership, if it’s supposed to be a Christian school, it’s not a Christian school teaching that. That isn’t what Christians teach. I would go to the president of the university. I would go to whoever I need to, and I’d say, here’s what is being taught in this classroom. And I would challenge that. I’d go to the board of directors if I was a student there. And I would tell the board of directors, and try to get some help behind you to get those kind of people rooted out of the university system.
SPEAKER 01 :
Until next time, walk in faith, be good to one another, and praise the Lord. Amen.
