Join Bob George as he guides callers through the intricate relationship between faith and works according to the book of James. In this episode, discover how new covenant theology can reshape our understanding of salvation, emphasizing faith over works as proposed by the Apostle Paul. Dive deep into the centrality of abiding in Christ, and how it is vital for a fruitful Christian life.
Welcome to Classic Christianity Radio with Bob George. Today we are pleased to present a special radio show featuring call-in listeners from Bob’s original people-to-people daily radio program that was on the air for over 30 years, offering real answers for real-life problems as he addresses common questions as well as the tough issues of today, directing callers to the centrality of Christ in you, your only hope of glory. We want to remind our listeners that Bob George Ministries needs your financial support to continue to have Classic Christianity Radio on the air. Please visit bobgeorge.net to find out how you can help support us financially. Let’s now join Bob as he presents practical biblical insights as he helps people experience a life of faith, hope, and love in Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER 04 :
We’re going to go to Plymouth, Michigan, listening on WRDT. John, you’re on the air.
SPEAKER 05 :
Hi, Bob. Hi. I’m calling in regards to faith and works again here in regards to James, referring specifically to James 2.14. I noticed you said a day or so ago that some Christians are Christians, but they’ll just get in by the skin of their teeth, and they haven’t really abided in the vine, and they haven’t grown. This verse seems to indicate that if they have no works, they’re not even Christians. What’s your take on that?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, you can’t judge your theology, John, on a book of James or one verse of Scripture out of the book of James. You have to have your theology based upon the totality of the new covenant that was ushered in at the At the death of Christ Jesus and basically that is explained to us in detail more by the Apostle Paul than James James is the first book that was written in the scriptures quite frankly was under much scrutiny in regard to whether it even ought to be in the Canada or not because of its teaching. on those passages because you’re not saved by works, you’re saved by faith. And Paul comes and basically says that in boldness and explains it where Paul just, or where James just kind of hit on it. But the issue is salvation has nothing to do with works. What he’s saying here is if indeed you are saved, and you have a true faith in a true Jesus, you will be bearing the fruit of that Jesus. It’s just like the vine and branch, that if you are truly in Christ Jesus, if you are truly in the vine and abiding in a vine, that vine has no option except to produce fruit in you, and you have no option except to bear that fruit. It has nothing to do with your salvation. It has to do with are you going to abide in who you’re in. Now, also, as you and I both know, John, we have people who are professors but not possessors. You have people that went out among us because they never were a part of us. Back in those days, I don’t think you had that problem so much that we would have today because people who were claiming to be believers back then could get killed. And Paul was beaten half to death most of his life. And the early apostles, all of them at one time or another, cost them their life for what they said they believed in. There wasn’t any of that kind of popular popularity Christianity that we have today. Today, it’s kind of popular and social to do. And but that was not the case back then. So I don’t think we today it’s a little bit different than they had it back there. But the verse is not talking about salvation. It’s just merely saying that true faith and a true Jesus is going to produce Jesus work because that’s what he came to do was to complete the work in us.
SPEAKER 05 :
But you also said that some of these people aren’t really doing that well in that area, and they’ll just barely get in.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, as I said, it talks about that. Some of you kind of come in on the skin of your teeth, and that’s all right. But again, you’ve got an option when you come to Christ is to abide or not to abide. And some people never grow, but they are still saved. And it’s not for us to judge those things. And unfortunately, that’s what we do is to judge whether a person’s in Christ or not. And quite frankly, you and I don’t have what it takes to judge that. So what we have to do is to… to teach the truth to people, and if the shoe fits, why you wear it.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah. The reason I ask is I can’t see it. I suppose there’s a definition of what works is, but the classical type works, I haven’t seen a lot of in my life. I’ve had a lot of inner struggle, and it has changed the course of my life, and there are some things I’ve done that would possibly be considered works, but… It isn’t anything to write home about, you know, and it makes me a little jittery.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, John, look, the disciples asked Jesus, what is the work of the ministry? And James says, without works. And then they asked Jesus prior to that, what is the work of the ministry? He said, to believe in me. And, you know, you can almost hear. saying, no, you didn’t understand my question. Yeah, I did understand your question. What is the work of the ministry? It’s to believe in me. What is the work of the branch? To abide in the vine. The work of the branch isn’t to produce fruit, is it? Can’t do it. So what is the work of the branch? Only one thing, to abide in the vine and let the vine do its work in and through you. Now, we sit around and become fruit inspectors. And toward ourselves and others and say, well, doesn’t look to me like I got as much fruit hanging out of me as old Bob Davis up there. And so we start comparing ourselves to each other. And what does the Bible say about that? It says you’re a fool that a man who compares himself by himself is a fool. And so we don’t want to do that because that’s God’s business to determine how much fruit he’s going to produce in and through us. And it’s our responsibility to just yield to him. So, John, all of us, that’s why we talk about on this sin issue, we’re all too dumb to know how many times a day we’re not trusting God. I mean, my goodness, if you stop to think that that which is not a faith is sin, and how many times a day do we not exercise faith in the living God that lives in us? We’re pretty perverted, pretty desperate people, to be real honest with you, that have no hope at all of ever obtaining eternal life apart from the work of Christ. And so if you have trusted Jesus, that’s the work. He says, that’s what pleases me. And so don’t sit there and beat yourself to death because of those things. Thank the Lord the fact that you are in the vine. And the vine is available to produce what he wants to produce in and through you. And your role is not to tell him what to produce. Your role is to abide in him, to thank him when you see him working in and through you, producing things like love and joy and peace and patience and kindness and goodness, and to thank him for that and to live in gratitude for that.
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 04 :
Does that help?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, it does help.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, I appreciate it. And you know that you’re in Christ, right?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, I got some kind of… psyche problem that I don’t know where it comes from, that I’m always questioning my salvation.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, again, let’s get rid of that. Let’s get rid of that, John, because that is not necessary. I mean, that’s Satan.
SPEAKER 05 :
I fully trusted that Christ is who he said he was and is. I bought his report on me, knew I needed him. And in my own way, in a Baptist church, not that I believe in methods of getting saved, but I walk forward desiring salvation and have it explained to me when I got up front. And I asked for that, and I went forward for that purpose. I believe in my heart. He died for me personally. He was raised from the dead. cover my sin so it would not be charged to my account. And it has changed my outlook on life and my behavior. But I’m always wondering, did I really receive it?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, did you, again, it depends. If you put your faith, John, in what he said about you, and you put your faith, which just means, Lord, I believe that, there ain’t any way for me to figure out me and my problem. That’s why Paul says, what is our problem? He said, sin lives in us. Well, psychiatrists hadn’t figured that out. They’re certainly not going to tell you that. They’re going to say it’s because your mom and you had a mother, or you were potty trained too early. That’s as good a genius as they can come up with. But God said, no, your problem is you’ve got sin living in you. And so you say, well, I’ve got sin that needs corrected. And he said, yeah, now you understand your condition. And my provision was I took away that sin. And you’re dead. There’s a consequence to sin called death. And we have to understand that’s our condition. John, here’s a problem we’ve got with religion. Religion kind of is like this. Look, you are basically John okay, but you do sin, and so you get your sins forgiven and you’re okay again. That can’t be further from the truth. We’re not okay. We’re dead. And so unless that condition of spiritual death is corrected, then we’re just playing games. We’re no different than the Jew who went to the Day of Atonement to get his sins forgiven and then walking away with his sins forgiven but still in the same shape that he was when he went there. because he needs corrected. What he needs is life. And if you came to Jesus, not just for his death for you, but his life in you, and you know that you’ve done that, then from that point on, let’s start praising him for that and thanking him instead of doubting. That’s Satan putting doubts in your mind, but praising him for the fact that you have have put faith in the fact that it’s not you, it’s all him. Now, Satan’s going to come along and say, no, John, it’s you. No, it isn’t me. Don’t have anything to do with it. He died for me. He was raised for me. He’s done it all. Faithful is he who called me, who will do it. Do what? Do it all. And I’ve put my faith in him. And so, Satan, go tell that garbage to somebody else because I’m not going to listen to you anymore.
SPEAKER 05 :
I believe that and I’ve accepted that all the way. Okay.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, good, John. Then just start camping on it. In other words, walk by faith in that truth because it is true. And rejoice in who God has made you. Okay. Okay, pal. That helps. Thank you, sir. Okay, John. God bless you, my friend. Bye-bye. We’re going to go to Andy in Vancouver, British Columbia, listening on Carrie. Andy, you’re on the air.
SPEAKER 06 :
Hey, how are you doing?
SPEAKER 04 :
Real good, Andy. Thank you.
SPEAKER 06 :
Good. I was just wondering, are you familiar with the organization called Hell Health?
SPEAKER 04 :
No, thank goodness. I don’t think I am.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. It’s pretty big in Texas. I was watching it on TV a couple of days ago. What happens is it’s like it’s this organization that it’s like they do it on every Halloween instead of like the combatant. It’s a Christian organization to combat Halloween where they invite people in and then they have drama students do these acts where it’s anything that’s
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I’ve seen that, yeah. Yeah, I know what you’re talking about, yeah.
SPEAKER 06 :
And what’s your intake on that? They were saying how, one thing that caught my eye when they were asking the pastor who had started that movement, because it was big in Texas, now it’s come up here in Canada, and it’s starting to have some ground here now, and he was saying that the people who think that evangelism can only be done through love and no fear is absolutely absurd, because he feels that having fear tactics is the most effective way, because The truth is, if you don’t accept Christ, you’re going to go to hell. And what is your intake on all that?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, I think whoever’s saying that obviously has never read the Scripture because the whole Scripture is about that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son and God demonstrated his love toward us while we were yet enemies. He came and died for us. God was in Christ reconciling the whole world unto himself, not counting their sins against them. Doesn’t sound to me like hell and damnation is really the approach for evangelism. I think that, to be honest with you, a lot of people don’t even believe in hell. So the whole issue is if you use scare tactics, and again, the problem with that, Andy, is this. you use a scare tactic well what what’s the problem why are you going to hell because of your sins so you need to come to jesus get your sins forgiven well that didn’t that didn’t even salvation but that’s basically what people have they look at as a fire insurance policy and so i’ll come to jesus to get my sins forgiven so i don’t go to hell that’s a that’s a terrible motivation for wanting to come to the loving christ who reaches out his arms and says Come unto me, all of you who are scared of hell, and I’ll give you peace for your soul. He didn’t say that, did he? He said all of you are laden and are heavy laden, and I’ll give you rest and peace for your soul. So, no, I don’t agree with that type of thing at all. I think that it’s spectacularism. I think that it’s, number one, it’s fantasizing. When you’re using, number one, who knows what hell is. And when you’re down there and pretending there’s demons and all this stuff, what’s a demon look like? And so all these little actors and all that type of thing are just functioning from a standpoint of fantasy land. And so I think that what we need to do is to do what God did. And that he said that I came to give you life and give it to you abundantly and to recognize that people are dead in their sins and the uncircumcision of your sinful nature. And the only solution to death is life. And that only life available to us is the life of Christ Jesus. I don’t sit around and criticize those kind of deals openly, but do I agree with them? No. Would I use them? No, I would not. Okay.
SPEAKER 06 :
All right. Well, thank you very much.
SPEAKER 04 :
You’re sure welcome, brother. God bless you, pal. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.
SPEAKER 01 :
Classic Christianity Radio is a listener-funded program, and because of your generous donations, we are able to be on the air. Go to bobgeorge.net online for more information about how to purchase helpful books and Bible study materials to guide you as you grow in your relationship with Jesus. The bobgeorge.net website also has additional information on how you can join us financially to help support the radio ministry. With your prayers and support, we can continue to share the good news of Jesus Christ. Let’s continue now with the teaching message.
SPEAKER 04 :
We’re going to go to Redford, Michigan. Let’s go on WRDT. Janet, you’re on the air.
SPEAKER 02 :
Hi, Bob.
SPEAKER 04 :
Hi, Janet.
SPEAKER 02 :
Hi. I have a question. It’s kind of like a two-part, but I’ll make it quick, and then you can answer it however you would like to. I wondered if you could tell me what the meaning of Hebrews 12, verses 7 through 11 is, and what kind of discipline is verse 11 speaking about? Is it physical discipline? emotional, spiritual, and it says it’s painful. And I also wondered, is it like Paul’s thorn in the flesh, and why are we being disciplined painfully if all our sins were taken away by Jesus at the cross?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, it’s a good question. It doesn’t make sense, does it? And if it doesn’t make sense, then it’s not true, because he’s not a God of confusion. He’s a God of truth, and that truth that he gives to us is true forever. Now, what you have there is a quote, and that quote is out of the Old Testament. And the issue there is discipline is not punishment. Punishment is a retaliation for something done, and discipline is a preparation for the life ahead. In other words, when a coach is running football players up and down the field, is he punishing them or disciplining them, preparing them for the game? Now, you see, he’s preparing them for the game, isn’t he? Now, it might feel like punishment, but it isn’t. It’s preparation. And so when you’re talking here about that truth, my son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline. Don’t lose heart when he rebukes you, for the Lord disciplines those he loves. Now, that’s a quote out of the Old Testament. And what the quote out of the Old Testament, it says, my son, in Proverbs 3, my son, do not despise the Lord’s discipline. They got that right in the New Testament. And do not represent its rebuke because the Lord disciplines those he loves as a father, the son he delights in. Now, that’s a quote out of the Old Testament. Where in the world did you come up with? The Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son. Where in the world did that come from? It’s a quote out of the Old Testament misquoted.
SPEAKER 02 :
Don’t butt me yet. Oh, okay.
SPEAKER 04 :
There’s no but to this, yeah. So here’s the issue. Both can’t be true. If you’re going to argue with that or even think in your mind that they’re both true, you may as well put your Bible in a wastebasket and forget about it because you’ve now negated the truth of the Bible. So it can’t be true, and this cannot be true because it’s a quote, direct quote out of the Old Testament, misquoted or mistranslated. Now, how did it get mistranslated? The word for a Lord disciplined, knows he loves, is a father his son delights in, came from a word that was like when you’re talking about chastising, It’s a word that was used in the Hebrew for to deeply inquire within, to deeply inquire, as a father deeply inquiring into his son’s situation. Now that word, by the time the Septuagint got written, which is a translation of the Hebrew into Greek, and by the time that occurred, why that word, because of the translation into Greek, had taken on new meetings. And what that meant to, by then, was a whip with a bone in it. That’s what it meant. To chastise somebody, it meant to deeply, you know, just what I said, deeply inquire within, and now has become to whip somebody. And so when it was translated, why the people translating off of the Septuagint would look at the Septuagint translated from Hebrew to Greek, and instead of going back to the Hebrew and translating it from the Hebrew into English, translated from the Septuagint into English. And the word had changed its meaning. You cannot have a quote out of the Old Testament and misquote it. If you do, you better look back to see what it meant. And that’s what it meant. There is no punishment. Let me just ask you a question. Is there any punishment for a believer? Remember what it said, Romans 9, what does it say? There is now what? No condemnation awaiting those who belong to Christ Jesus. Do you believe that to be true? Yes. Okay, then there’s no punishment. So how could this be true that he punishes everyone he accepts as a son? It’s not true. It’s a misquote. What is the quote?
SPEAKER 02 :
It’s about verse 11, Bob. It says no discipline, not the Old Testament, but I mean… The part that’s verse 11.
SPEAKER 04 :
No discipline seems painful at the time to the football player. It may say it doesn’t seem like it’s painful, but it’s discipline. Let me ask you a question, Janet. What do you think his Bible is? What do you think discipline is? It’s discipleship.
SPEAKER 02 :
Right. That’s what I had heard you say before, Bob. And so I was searching the scriptures to grow even more. And when I read this the other night, it confused me again. Because I was wondering if that’s why a lot of denominations do do the one John, first John thing, because they’re probably afraid of God’s discipline coming. So they think if they keep trying to do what they’re supposed to do, even though they fail all the time, that maybe they won’t be as harshly disciplined. That was just my feeling on maybe why so many churches are confused with this, these portions of scripture. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, there’s a lot of reason, Jen, for the confusion. One of the main reasons, like I said up front, is most people have the idea that I’m okay and you’re okay. And all I do is I do sin occasionally. So when I do, I’ve got my formula. I can 1 John 1, 9 and get my sins forgiven. And then I’m okay again. I said, no, you’re not. You’re dead. that God didn’t say that the wages of sin is being out of fellowship or the wages of sin is going to the woodshed or being disciplined. He said that the wages of sin is death. And so, no, you’re not okay. And we really look at our Christian life the same way that an Old Testament person would have looked at their life. What did they do? Well, basically I’m okay, but I go to the Day of Atonement and I sacrifice a lamb and I get my sins forgiven and I’m okay. He said, no, you’re not, you’re dead. And so what we’ve done is watered down the gospel, watered down what God says the wages of sin is, and therefore have the idea that my only problem is that I have sinned, but I’ve got a way of kind of correcting that, and I’m okay. He said, no, you’re not. You’re dead, and a dead man needs life. So what is the purpose of discipline? It is to show us where we are. If you’re reading this as a lost person, you’re not going to think that with this translation the way it is because it’s a poor translation. But if you’re lost, you’re going to say, I think I’m lost. Well, what’s the benefit of that, to get saved? If I’m a child of the living God and this is discipline from God, I say praise God for it. That’s what this book is, is a book of discipline. This Bible is a book of discipline. Every time, why would I study the Bible if I didn’t want God to discipline me? And what does discipline mean? It means teaching me truth. Okay. And set me free with it. And deeply, to deeply inquire into, to not deal with the surface. See, again, what does Christianity do? It deals with the fruit. What does this passage talk about? Start dealing with the root. And Jesus said that the root of all sin is unbelief in me. now there’s our problem is we’ve stopped believing jesus started believing satan so praise god for this i look at this is endure hardship as discipline god treating his sons that’s what you should have translated up there in in in that verse for what son is not disciplined by his father so discipline is good it’s what teaches you to be a When you’re a son, you’re being taught to be an adult.
SPEAKER 02 :
Right, I understand. But the painful part is what I didn’t understand. And what kind of pain did that mean?
SPEAKER 04 :
It doesn’t talk about you’ll have pain. It seems like pain.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
Everyone undergoes discipline. I mean, when God is telling… telling you that what you’re doing and what you’re thinking is contrary to who you are as a person of God, why that seems painful, it says, present at the time, but it seems painful. Well, what’s wrong with having pain? It’s a pain of the heart. Again, what does it say in Romans in regard to homosexuality? It says that they suffer in the inner parts of their own body. That’s painful. Why is it painful to try to get them to see they need salvation? Nothing wrong when God puts things on you. It still leads you to the sufficiency of Christ Jesus.
SPEAKER 02 :
Is that like Paul’s thorn in the flesh?
SPEAKER 04 :
Sure, same deal. A thorn in the flesh kept him dependent upon Christ.
SPEAKER 02 :
So it wasn’t necessarily a physical pain or a mental or emotional pain then, right?
SPEAKER 04 :
Whatever it was is for the purpose of keeping him dependent on Christ.
SPEAKER 02 :
So is that discipline, though, Bob?
SPEAKER 04 :
Sure, sure. Absolutely.
SPEAKER 02 :
So sometimes he could use something like that in our life, maybe.
SPEAKER 04 :
If he did, that’s his choice. And whatever he does, we have to be in a position of saying, thank you, Lord. It’s like Paul said, to rejoice in your weakness. Why? Well, because my weaknesses are what keep me dependent on Christ. If I didn’t have any weaknesses, Janet, I’d forget Jesus in a New York minute.
SPEAKER 02 :
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I’ve had… I’ve had a lot of share of it. I was just wondering. So I guess I know I’m a daughter anyway.
SPEAKER 04 :
Absolutely. And so that’s what we rejoice in.
SPEAKER 02 :
We rejoice in that. Okay, Bob. Thank you so much. Okay.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 04 :
Bless you now. Bye-bye.
SPEAKER 01 :
Thank you for listening to Classic Christianity Radio with Bob George. We are a listener funded program and your financial support is greatly appreciated. Your generous gifts keep us on the air and they help so many people find hope in Jesus Christ. Go to BobGeorge.net online for more information about how to purchase helpful books and Bible study materials to guide you as you grow in your relationship with Jesus. Thank you again for listening. We look forward to our next classic Christianity radio broadcast with you. In the meantime, remember to always put Jesus first in your life.
