This thought-provoking conversation tackles issues of assurance, cognitive dissonance, and how these intersect with core Christian beliefs. Bob and Sam dissect theological differences between young earth and old earth perspectives, and the implications these have on our understanding of God’s creation. They also discuss the nuances of holding an orthodox stance in Christian colleges, while balancing faith with modern scientific views.
00:12:56 Closing Remarks and YouTube Channel Promo
SPEAKER 01 :
The following is a listener supported ministry from the Grace Evangelical Society. Can a person be assured of salvation who does not believe that the Bible is literally true? And what are the alternatives, possibilities, and pitfalls of not believing that the Bible is literally true? This is Grace in Focus, and we’re glad to have your company today. Grace in Focus is a radio broadcast and podcast ministry of the Grace Evangelical Society. We are located in North Texas, and we have a website, faithalone.org. On that website, there’s lots to learn about us, and there’s also a store where you can buy our books. Bob Wilkins’ latest book, The Gospel is Still Under Siege, is available there. Find it all at faithalone.org. Now with today’s question and answer discussion, here are Bob Wilkin and Sam Marr.
SPEAKER 02 :
What do you have for us today, Sam?
SPEAKER 03 :
We have a question from Isaiah, a high schooler. Looks like recently at his church, his pastor went over some core beliefs. And then he talked about non-essential beliefs that Christians hold. And he mentioned Genesis 1 through 11 as being non-essential. And so Isaiah’s question is, while one’s belief on the Bible being literal in the first 11 chapters is not part of salvation, can those who reject whether the Bible is literal or not truly believe in Christ for salvation and have assurance? If they pick and choose which parts of the Bible, how can they actually believe?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, that’s a very good question. I am encouraged. This is coming from a person in high school. He’s clearly someone who is thinking about Scripture, and that’s what we’re called to do, right? That’s how we are transformed by the Basically, it’s kind of tricky because, as I’ve said many times, you can believe John 3.16 without believing everything else in the Bible, right? So all I have to believe is really three things. I have to believe that… The Lord Jesus Christ, whoever believes in him, whoever believes in the Lord Jesus Christ has everlasting life, life that can never be lost. He’ll never perish. He has everlasting life. And I have to believe that the condition is believing in him. It’s not committing to him. It’s not serving Him. It’s not following Him. It’s not obeying Him. It’s simply believing in Him. So, can a person believe John 3.16 without believing Genesis 1-11, at least in the way it’s intended? The answer is yes. Now, if a person doesn’t believe there’s a Creator, and doesn’t believe there’s a creation, and doesn’t believe that God exists… Well, then, therefore, they’re not going to believe John 3.16, because if you don’t believe that God exists, you don’t believe there’s life after death, and you don’t believe that Jesus is the Son of God. Now, Son of God is a whole other discussion, because Son of God doesn’t mean he was born of the Father. It’s an expression that is used to help us understand the relationship in the Trinity. I think it’s important for us to recognize a person doesn’t even have to be Trinitarian to believe John 3.16. There are people called modalists who believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all the same person, not three persons, but one person. And when Jesus prays to the Father, he’s basically praying to himself. You know, that view is wrong, but that’s the way some people interpret it. So is it possible to interpret Genesis 1 through 11 as what many seminaries now teach that Genesis 1 through 3 especially is poetic history? And so they would say, we don’t really know how God created Adam and Eve. We just know he created Adam and Eve. We don’t know how Adam and Eve fell. We just know they fell. That kind of thing. The problem with that view is it opens the door to a Darwinian understanding of evolution as far as origins. And when you go there, that opens the door to post-modernity and to pluralism and to the idea that we don’t know anything for sure and we go through life filled with doubts. So this comes back to the second part of Isaiah’s question. Wasn’t he asking about assurance?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, how can you have assurance if you don’t believe that the whole Bible is literally true?
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay, so I heard this on the news this morning. It’s an expression called cognitive dissonance. And if I understand that expression correctly, it’s when someone has this turmoil in their brain because they believe something, but yet they also believe something else that contradicts what they believe. And so they have this cognitive dissonance. Is it possible to believe X when they also believe something that contradicts X? I would say no, except for the fact that sometimes human beings are able to compartmentalize their thinking in such a way that a person could believe that by faith in Christ, they have everlasting life, that they’re born again. And yet at the same time, They believe there are other ways to being born again. That’s illogical. Right. It’s either what Jesus says is true or it’s not. And his claims are exclusive.
SPEAKER 03 :
And the problem is because I’ve met a lot of people that are young earthers and old earthers. So old earth would be probably an evolutionary view. And they’re great Christians. I believe that they are born again. They are very well educated. But that’s like the one thing they’re like. Well, I just can’t get my head around the earth being 6,000 years old or something like that. Right. I would say that’s probably a form of cognitive dissonance because I think if you really examine the Bible and you believe what the Bible says about itself, then you can’t hold that view. But I respect their view, except for when it comes to the issue of assurance, I think The problem is you’re building your house on the sand because if you compromise that one thing, then you’re allowing for other people to come in and say, well, Job probably isn’t true either. That’s probably poetic literature. That probably didn’t literally happen. And then you might say, yeah, that’s a good point. You might be right. And then gradually you can. break down your view of the Old Testament and then what’s stopping you from the New Testament? Did he really come back to life or did he just not ever truly die or things like that? So it’s your foundation is Genesis 1 through 11. That is the foundation of the Bible. That’s where it starts. So I think if you’re going to compromise the foundation of the Bible, then you’re building on shaky sand. You’re not going to have a firm foundation. Yeah.
SPEAKER 02 :
No, you’re exactly right. If a person is rejecting the teaching of Genesis 1 through 11, there’s extreme likelihood that they’re not going to believe John 3.16. They’re going to believe some form of work salvation.
SPEAKER 01 :
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SPEAKER 02 :
I would agree with you that when a person is rejecting the literal nature of Genesis 1 through 11, they are on a sandy sort of soil. It seems to me there’s two different issues that Isaiah is raising. One is what’s essential for everlasting life. Two is what’s necessary or essential for sanctification. Those are two different questions. I like your point, Sam, that if we fudge on Genesis 1 through 11, our sanctification is on very shaky ground.
SPEAKER 03 :
And your ongoing assurance. Because I would say cognitive dissonance is a real biological observable thing. So you can believe John 3, 16 and believe that… Adam and Eve were monkeys that were raised to human status. They weren’t created by God from dust, whatever. I think you could believe those two things and I think you could genuinely believe them. But I don’t think that you can live your life going forward and be assured of your salvation.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, none. To be fair, the people in leading seminaries today don’t say that Adam and Eve were monkeys or apes. They say they were hominids and that there were hundreds of thousands or millions of hominids. And God picked out two of them and he breathed on them the breath of life. whatever that is, because now they’re already alive, but they weren’t alive as humans, so he makes them into humans. And so now you’ve got all these Neanderthals, or whatever you want to call those hominids, and you’ve got this. But I think it’s important, one other thing to recognize, we’re not saying… that you can believe John 3.16 and not believe it at the same time. What we’re suggesting is it’s possible to believe John 3.16 and yet believe things that logically are inconsistent with John 3.16, but I somehow blocked that out of my mind that it’s inconsistent. I remember having a conversation with a pastor in his elder board, and the pastor was arguing that Noah’s flood was a local flood, and he didn’t believe in Genesis 1 through 3 as literally being true. My point to him and them is, it seems to me John 3.16 is not true, unless the flood was literally a worldwide flood, and the creation is as God says it is. Now, I get the fact that they believe John 3.16 without these other things, but my point is you’re being inconsistent. And like you said earlier, that inconsistency can lead to real problems in your Christian walk. There’s one final thing, Sam, that you asked. You talked about old Earth and young Earth. And the young Earth people are people like me and you who believe that the Earth was probably created around 4200 BC, somewhere in there, and that the universe was created at that same time. Having said that, I know of people who are highly adamant about inerrancy. who believe in an old earth, or at least an intermediate age earth. I have a friend who believes in the gap theory, that there’s a gap between Genesis 1-1 and Genesis 1-2. And he wouldn’t say the earth is billions of years old, but I think he would say it could be millions or hundreds of thousands of years old. I remember Norm Geisler. One of the greatest proponents for inerrancy there is, Norm Geisler held to an old earth. So I kind of say, look, if someone holds to an old Earth, I’m willing to give them a pass there because I think a lot of people have been heavily influenced by public schools and by Darwinian thought. And even if they reject that as the source of origins, they may say, yes, but science has proved that the Earth is 4 billion years old and the universe is 13 billion years old. That’s not true. The evidence is, to me, overwhelming that the Earth is young and that the universe is young. But that’s another issue. And very willing to give people a pass who hold to an old Earth. But they do need to believe in a universal flood like Dr. Geisler did. And they do need to believe that God created the way it says God created, which Dr. Geisler did believe as well. Well, thanks so much, Isaiah. Terrific question. And thank you all for listening. And let’s all remember to keep grace in focus.
SPEAKER 01 :
We invite you to check out our Monday, Wednesday, and Friday five-minute YouTube videos at YouTube Grace Evangelical Society. You will love the content and learn a lot. Maybe you’ve got a question or comment or feedback. If so, please send us a message. Here’s our email address. It’s radio at faithalone.org. That’s radio at faithalone.org. Please make sure your question is as succinct and clear as possible. That would be a great big help. On our next episode, to what does the gift of God refer in Ephesians 2.8? Come back, join us again. We’d love to have you. And until then, let’s keep grace in focus. The preceding has been a listener-supported ministry from the Grace Evangelical Society.
