In this episode of Washington Watch, host Tony Perkins dives into the tumultuous events in a Minnesota church where protesters interrupted a Sunday worship service, bringing about a DOJ investigation. We discuss the allegations of connections to ICE and the legal implications under the FACE Act, with insights from Congresswoman Claudia Tenney. The conversation shifts to how federal and local authorities are preparing for potential escalations, with active duty troops on standby.
SPEAKER 03 :
Hey, excuse me.
SPEAKER 05 :
Shame, shame on you. Shame on you. Shame on you. This is the house of God and we are worshiping. Shame on you.
SPEAKER 13 :
Shame on you.
SPEAKER 06 :
You may leave. You may leave. That was Pastor Jonathan Parnell, lead pastor of Cities Church in St. Paul, Minnesota, confronting a group of protesters who interrupted their Sunday service. Welcome to this January 19th edition of Washington Watch. I’m your host, Tony Perkins. Thanks for joining us. Here’s what we’re following today. A group of protesters stormed a church in Minnesota over the weekend, disrupting the worship service, an act now under review by the U.S. Department of Justice as a potential violation of federal law, which protects religious services. Later in the program, Congresswoman and Attorney Claudia Tinney will join us to discuss the DOJ’s investigation into the incident. Also ahead, President Trump has unveiled the second phase of his administration’s Gaza Peace Plan, inviting several nations, including Turkey, Qatar, and Egypt, to participate on a newly formed Gaza Peace Board. Greg Roman, Executive Director of the Middle East Forum, joins us live from Israel with his insights on this next step in the peace plan. Well, as I mentioned, the Justice Department has launched a civil rights inquiry after protesters disrupted a Sunday service at City’s Church in St. Paul, Minnesota. Protesters accused church leaders of having ties to immigration and customs enforcement. Federal officials have characterized the disruption of the worship service as unlawful and a potential violation of the FACE Act. Joining me now is Washington Sound reporter Casey Harper, who’s been tracking today’s story. Casey, it appears this group of protesters that targeted this church says they did so because there’s a connection with ICE. What’s the alleged connection?
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, that’s right, Tony. As you said, these protesters interrupted services at this church. We’re chanting these anti-ICE slogans because allegedly one of the pastors is a field officer with ICE in the region. And of course, these anti-ICE protests have been going on for weeks now with the surge of federal officers and the shooting there. Here’s a clip from inside the church.
SPEAKER 05 :
You’re interfering with our worship. Hey, excuse me. Shame, shame on you. Shame on you. Shame on you. This is the house of God. And we are worshiping. Shame on you. Shame on you.
SPEAKER 08 :
Now, it’s a pretty striking video. But just to be clear, that’s John. Now, he’s a senior. He’s not the alleged officer. The DJ, as you said, said they’re investigating the destruction. that tensions could not be higher right now in Minnesota and that the church is now at the center of it.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, we’re going to look at this a little bit further because I think we’re seeing this escalation, not what’s happening in Minnesota, but outright hostility toward the church. Now, how is the federal government responding to these political tensions in Minnesota as it escalates? I understand there could be active duty troops being deployed there.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, that’s right. The Pentagon has given about 1,500 active duty soldiers in Alaska orders of prepare to deploy. Though officials say no deployment decision has officially been made yet. Meanwhile, President Trump has threatened to invoke the Insurrection Act, which has not been used since the Rodney King riots. And Minnesota leaders are warning, they’re pushing back, they’re saying that sending in the military is only going to further escalate, which what we can see are already pretty tense protests, Tony.
SPEAKER 06 :
All right, Casey, let’s move on the international front. Iran’s president is warning that any strike on the supreme leader, Ali Khamenei, would be an all out war as tensions are rising following President Trump’s call for new leadership. So what’s the situation on the ground and this broader regional risk?
SPEAKER 08 :
That’s right. We’ve been waiting any moment for a potential strike coming straight out of the White House on Iran as they continue or have been killing in previous days protesters. As these protests have really spread nationwide, some reports estimate over 3,000 protesters have been killed, though we also have reports that Iran has, out of really fear of these Trump strikes, has stopped executing prisoners. Now, Iran is reportedly blaming the U.S. and Israel for the unrest, while the U.S. and Israel are reportedly preparing their own military options. Now, we know from inside Iran that economic pressure and oppression of the regime are really at the heart of the source of much of these protests. But Israeli forces are on high alert as the country assess potential escalations, which could come from the U.S. strikes, but also from potential military action that Iran might take, Tony, just another powder keg this time across the world.
SPEAKER 06 :
All right. Thanks so much, Casey. Appreciate the update. Well, returning to the situation in Minnesota and the protests that disrupted a church service yesterday, I want to bring in Congresswoman Claudia Tenney, who serves on several House committees, including the Ways and Means Committee and the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. She represents the 24th Congressional District of New York. She’s also an attorney. Congresswoman Tenney, welcome back to Washington Watch. Thanks so much for joining us on this holiday. Thank you so much. Great to be on and Happy New Year to everyone. Well, Happy New Year to you as well. I should also mention that you are also the caucus chair of the Judea and Samaria, Friends of Judea and Samaria Caucus. And we work with you on that. Appreciate your leadership on that. I want to move to this situation in Minnesota where former CNN anchor Don Lemon, was allegedly covering this protest covering i use that in quotes he defended the protest saying that it was a constitutional right i mean he positioned it as something you can do anywhere at any time here’s a clip of what he had to say you heard what some of the folks said in there um you know that this is uh uh
SPEAKER 15 :
They shouldn’t be there and, you know, they shouldn’t be uncomfortable. And this is our house and whatever. That’s what protesting is about is to make people uncomfortable. You may not like it, but that’s what it is. And we have to stop like thinking, OK, you can only protest between eight and five or nine and five. And you’ve got to be cordoned off in this little area. That’s not what it’s about.
SPEAKER 06 :
I would say his lawyering is even worse than his commentating. I mean, since when do you have the right to break the law?
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, absolutely. And he’s not making the important distinction here that it’s one thing to stand on the edge of a street in a lawfully designated area. And it’s another thing to actually deceive people and go in and ambush a church, church goers, sit there quietly and wait till you have your moment when you’re all in and you’re gonna go in and protest against their right to worship. And this is where they didn’t have permission. This is why you’re seeing federal authorities like Attorney General, Assistant Attorney General Harmeet Dhillon, Attorney General Pam Bondi are looking into the interruption and inability and obstruction of the ability to worship under the FACE Act. That’s one aspect of it. And the question is, how severe was this? How much did they obstruct their ability to worship? And that would determine really the severity of this crime. Is it a felony? Is it a misdemeanor? What was done? I think the really deceitful nature of this is what makes it so offensive is that they snuck into the church as if they were worshipers, but really they were going in really to attack people who believe in Christ and also who happen to have a memorandum or pastor in their church somehow affiliated with ICE, which to me is a noble profession to serve in our armed forces or to answer the call to serve in law enforcement. And this is where I think Don Lemon is completely wrong. And he could be, I think he’s gonna have to look at how he led this group in and what his role was.
SPEAKER 06 :
The FACE Act, this is something I’ve talked about frequently on this program over the years, originally passed, adopted by Congress in the mid-1990s at the urging of then-President Bill Clinton. It was the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act, but the late Orrin Hatch, senator from Utah, Added at the very end, a provision that says intentionally damages or destroys the property of facility or attempts to do so because such facility provides. Well, actually, it let me go. I skipped a part of it. It applies to religious institutions and to disrupting a worship service. And it’s never been used for that. It’s always been used. The Biden administration used it intense with intentionality to go after pro-lifers widespread. I think one way people don’t conservatives don’t like this law. But I tell you, one way to make it go away is to apply it to the left that is using is interrupting and disrupting church services.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, well, they’re in the middle of a sanctuary. This is a First Amendment protected right, the most important rights we have as Americans. And to go in and intentionally disrupt, and I think the deceitful part of this is what could be problematic for them and for Don Lemon. You know, they just went in. This is not a church where I assume they regularly worship. They got inside information. They looked like they had assistance from outside groups like Black Lives Matter, which is, you know, part of an umbrella of funding from the far left. A lot of other groups could have been involved in it. So this was actually an intentional act to go in and purposely disrupt people in the act of worship, which is why I think that it would be great if we could actually have some enforcement on this side and make it happen. I just think it’s offensive in every way that these people, especially, you know, families with their children were subjected to this and families. And especially, why are we targeting law enforcement? We’re back to this defund, demoralize the police movement, the people that keep us safe. You know, the rule of law is absolutely essential to having freedom. And oh, by the way, to protecting the freedom to peacefully protest, but not to interfere in a sanctuary. Yes, you can protest, but you have to protest, you know, along the street side or in an area that is designated.
SPEAKER 06 :
I mean, do I have the right to show up in Don Lemon’s living room and protest his crazy ideas?
SPEAKER 11 :
No, I mean, this is where it’s insane. And I think this is where the left is going way too far on all of these things as far as what they’re protesting, targeting law enforcement and really not asking the question and understanding that law enforcement in these cases, especially when it refers to ICE. Law enforcement has done extensive intelligence on who they’re going to be executing a warrant on it. They know who these illegal cartel members are. They know that these people have committed either violent crimes or have committed very serious economic crimes. And a lot of these Democrats, like Governor Walz and Mayor Frey, are looking to disrupt from the very wrongdoing that they may have been involved in. This fraud, you know, the quality leering center and all these things that are going on. They don’t want to have people focused on that because maybe they’re involved in these things. And I think that’s why they’re making such a target of ICE, which is unfortunate because ICE is actually keeping our community safe. And I think another really interesting point is that now they’re bringing the National Guard in as if they’re the good guys because they’re not ICE. You know, they objected to President Trump bringing the National Guard in to places like Memphis and Washington, D.C., where, by the way, the residents of Washington, D.C., including me and many members of Congress on both sides of the aisle, are grateful that we have law enforcement there to assist the Metropolitan Police in keeping our communities safe. So, you know, the Democrats are trying to splice and dice which law enforcement they like one day and not the other. The problem is we have to have rule of law in order to have our freedom. And the freedom of worship is to go into a sanctuary, have your transformational moment with your Lord and Savior. And this is what’s being taken away from the people that were in that church yesterday.
SPEAKER 06 :
We just have just under a minute left, Congresswoman Tinney. There’s some discussion about maybe these protesters moving to New York next. Are you concerned that New York City may be the next site for this?
SPEAKER 11 :
Look, they’re already here. They’re all over the place. They started all this last summer with their No Kings rallies. They’re going into, you know, trying to create sanctuary cities again. New York is, of course, a sanctuary city now run by a Marxist anti-Semite, anti-police mayor who is, you know, has no problem, you know, working against ICE and law enforcement. Doesn’t really seem to show respect for the New York City police who are probably among the hardest working, most under siege police departments in the country. So we’ll see what happens. But I don’t think the Democrats are going to end because this is all astroturfed. You know, money got behind them from these far left groups really to try to undermine, you know, the work that’s being done by ICE to try to eliminate the most dangerous people in our communities.
SPEAKER 06 :
Claudia Tenney, thanks so much for joining us. Always great to see you. Stick with us, folks. We’re back with more after this. We have state leaders that want to keep the deadly drugs out of their states. Maybe if these abortion pills were coming by boat, the administration would change its tactics. It’s time to respect the rights of the states, and it’s time to end death by mail.
SPEAKER 01 :
Family Research Council President Tony Perkins, alongside Senator Lindsey Graham, led a press conference on Capitol Hill, urging the Trump administration to end the Biden-era policies that have allowed dangerous abortion drugs to be shipped across state lines. They were joined by state attorneys general, pro-life advocates, and multiple Republican congressmen.
SPEAKER 09 :
There are more abortions today in the United States than when Roe versus Wade was the law of the land. And why is that? It’s because of the chemical abortion drug, Mifeprestone. Nearly 70% of the abortions that are committed in the United States today are committed because of Mifeprestone.
SPEAKER 13 :
The federal government is allowing a chemical abortion pill to be sent through the mail that wipes out every state unborn protection law in the land.
SPEAKER 18 :
It’s harder to ship alcohol in this country than it is to ship the abortion pill.
SPEAKER 10 :
And that should never be the case. This is a drug that takes the life of every child. So there is always a death that’s involved in this drug, but is also incredibly dangerous for the mom as well. We think that we should require a doctor to be able to get access to this drug.
SPEAKER 04 :
As a doctor, I think it’s essential that there be human contact before the pill is prescribed.
SPEAKER 02 :
It’s not about a national abortion ban. It’s about validating Dobbs and preventing other states from nullifying the legislative policy choices that have been made by our states and facilitating the illegal, unethical, and dangerous drug trafficking of abortion pills into our states without any medical oversight whatsoever.
SPEAKER 13 :
We can simply fix this if we have the courage to do it. So what are all of us telling the administration? You’ve been a great pro-life president, Mr. President. It’s now time to deal with this issue.
SPEAKER 09 :
We want to protect life, and we want to give voice to the American people and their right to protect life state by state, city by city, and yes, here in the United States Congress.
SPEAKER 01 :
Let your voice be heard. Text LIFE to 67742. Sign the petition. Tell the Trump administration to act.
SPEAKER 12 :
Looking for a trusted source of news that shares your Christian values? Turn to The Washington Stand, your ultimate destination for informed, faith-centered reporting. Our dedicated team goes beyond the headlines, delivering stories that matter most to believers. From breaking events to cultural insights, we provide clear, compassionate coverage through a biblical lens. Discover news you can trust at the Washington Stand, where faith and facts meet every day.
SPEAKER 06 :
This is Washington Watch. I’m your host, Tony Perkins. Thanks for tuning in on this Monday. All right, yesterday’s protest at a church service in St. Paul, Minnesota is not simply the product of the anti-ice sentiment that has been spreading across the country. This is the culmination of several dynamics which have been in motion for some time. First, there is the biblical illiteracy that has led to attacking biblical Christianity with the club of biblical ignorance. You know, we’ve seen it on the topic of marriage and human sexuality. Now we’re seeing it on the issue of immigration. That combined with a religious intolerance or I would say hatred for God that is no longer latent but is blatant among many, not all, but many on the left, is what is at play here. Now, I want to just quote from the FACE Act. I mentioned this earlier, but I found the section that I wanted to reference. This is a provision of the federal law that says intentionally someone who intentionally injures intimidates or interferes with or attempts to injure intimidate or interfere with any person because that person is or has been or in order to intimidate such person or other persons or any class of persons from exercising the first amendment right of religious freedom at a place of religious worship or goes on to talk about damaging that facility clear violation Now, we’ve not seen, although Assistant Attorney General Harmeet Dhillon, who we’ve had on the program before, and she may be joining us later in the week, has been looking at this. And I applaud them for looking at the application of the FACE Act to this issue. egregious violation. But I want to explore the deeper issues here. Joining me now to talk about this, Dr. David Claussen, Director of the Center for Biblical Worldview here at the Family Research Council. Dr. Claussen, thanks so much for joining me today.
SPEAKER 18 :
Tony, great to be with you.
SPEAKER 06 :
So, FRC has been tracking incidents like these, we call our hostility report, for some time. How does this attack, from your perspective, represent an escalation in what we’ve seen elsewhere around the country over the last decade?
SPEAKER 18 :
Yeah, Tony, it is an escalation. Six years ago, a lot of my work here at FRC was about the religious liberty violations of churches from state actors during the COVID-19 pandemic. Then, of course, when Roe v. Wade was overturned, we saw hundreds of acts of violence and threatening letters and things like that. This is a clear escalation, Tony. You know, just eight days ago, I saw some of this in person. My little 13-year-old son was crying during the service at our church, so I took him around the block, and just a couple of blocks from where my church meets, a member of President Trump’s cabinet regularly attends church, and there was about 30 protesters screaming obscenities, and it was just an awful scene. But even in those situations, Tony, they’ve been doing that since October, it was outside the church. This was inside the church. And Tony, I think in your intro, you got it exactly right. This is, I think, in part, the fruit of years of cultural messaging that says Christians are not just dangerous or bigoted, but immoral and subversive, and that in some way we deserve this.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, so I want people to understand this did not just happen when ICE was dispatched to Minnesota. This began to happen in the 1960s and the 1970s in our institutions of higher learning and then filtered down into our elementary and secondary education as these individuals graduated from college and went on to teach. I saw it firsthand as a fourth grader, saw this infusion into the elementary schools. So part of this is the biblical illiteracy that I think we have to, when I say push back, part of it is a responsibility of the church to teach on these issues, which is number one, your mission at the Center for Biblical Worldview is teaching what the Bible actually says about this. Because what I’ve been hearing from the rhetoric and the chanting is many saying, well, the Bible says this about immigration and you’re wrong on immigration. The reality is they don’t know what the Bible says about immigration and so they’re using the Bible to beat Bible believing churches into silence.
SPEAKER 18 :
They are, Tony. And I don’t know if you actually saw this just two hours ago. Don Lemon was actually on a podcast where he’s actually now doubling down on his participation yesterday. And the host asked him, you know, about the incident yesterday. And he said specifically about this church, he said, well, you know, the churchgoers there were entitled. And then he went on to say, you know, this entitlement from these churchgoers who are comfortable stems from white supremacy.
SPEAKER 06 :
Let me say this. Let me just jump in and say this right now. Don Lemon has an issue with God, all right? He has an issue with God. And that’s what we’re seeing here is this is a hatred toward God expressed toward people aligned with God. Don Lemon is married to another man. He has an issue with what God has to say about marriage and about human sexuality. And therefore, you know, he feels that he has this right to charge into a church and attack, you know, a church and a worship service. Look, again, this is we’ve seen this latent hostility that has been brewing for years that now has manifest itself increasingly in a very open way. And it’s bottom line. It is a hatred toward God, just like we see in anti-Semitism. The rise of that, that is an expression of a hatred toward God.
SPEAKER 18 :
Yeah, Tony, and you know what’s so ironic? Friday was actually the National Religious Freedom Day. So around the country, we celebrated religious freedom, of course, commemorating Thomas Jefferson’s 1786 Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom. And just a couple days after our nation celebrated National Religious Freedom Day, you have this unbelievable attack and usurpation of the civil rights and the religious freedom of these churchgoers. By the way, Tony, I have friends who know people who are part of the planning of this church, who have friends who attend this church. They told me this is not really even an overtly political church. This is a church that gathers every Sunday on the Lord’s Day. It’s just a normal, faithful Southern Baptist church, but it was targeted just simply because of this alleged connection to ICE.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, David, therein lies another issue. This is not, and I think that’s descriptive of most churches. Churches aren’t looking for a fight. We’re not looking for a fight. Paul didn’t talk about putting on the armor of God so that you can go and find a fight to get into. He said, put on the whole armor of God and stand your ground because they’re going to come at you. And that’s what we see happening. But the church has to be prepared, number one, to know the word of God. And number two, have the courage to speak the word of God and not shrink back in intimidation, which is exactly what they want to do. All right, Dave, I give you got 15 seconds.
SPEAKER 18 :
I give you the final word. Yeah, John 15 and 16, Jesus told us, Tony, to expect this. We need to expect this. We also need to prepare, show resolve and courage because this is going to happen again. Let’s be ready for it.
SPEAKER 06 :
All right. Very well said, Dr. David Clawson. Thanks so much for joining us. And folks, I encourage you to check out the materials, the research, the resources of the Center for Biblical Worldview at frc.org. Don’t go away. For over 4,000 years, the Jewish people have had legal, historical, and biblical ties to the land of Israel, especially the heartland of Israel, Judea and Samaria, which much of the world still calls the West Bank. To Israelis, Judea and Samaria is far more than a name. It’s the center of their ancestral homeland where nearly 80% of the Bible’s events took place. Abraham purchased property in Hebron, Jacob in Shechem, Joshua made an altar on Mount Ebal and led the Israelites into a covenant before God. On Mount Gerizim, overlooking Shechem, Jesus talked to the Samaritan woman at the well about worshiping neither on Mount Gerizim nor in Jerusalem, but in spirit and in truth. Judea and Samaria is nearly a quarter of Israel’s current land mass, not a small strip of land on the Jordan River, but a vital and strategic part of the nation’s identity. The October 7th massacre, launched from Gaza, shattered the illusion that giving away territory brings peace. Gaza, which was once seen as the cornerstone of a two-state solution, became a launch pad for terror. Today, only 21% of Israelis support a Palestinian state. Trust in a two-state solution has all but collapsed. The Middle East is changing. Iran’s grip is weakening. New alliances are forming. But Western countries and some U.S. officials still chase the mirage of a two-state solution. History speaks clearly. The 2005 Gaza withdrawal, backed by the U.S., led not to peace, but to a terrorist regime. Judea and Samaria are 24 times larger than Gaza, deeply woven into Israel’s geographic and spiritual fabric. To surrender them would not bring peace. It would invite conflict and existential danger. Family Research Council stands with Israel’s rightful claim to sovereignty. It’s time for America to do the same for history, for justice, and for lasting security in the Middle East. Welcome back to Washington Watch. Thanks so much for tuning in again. If you would like more of our worldview resources, you can find it at frc.org. You can find it all there at the website. All right. For more than three weeks now, the people of Iran have been protesting against the Iranian regime, driven primarily by the economic conditions brought about by the sanctions they’ve been working. And while the Islamic Republic’s nearly two-week internet blackout has made it difficult to gauge the full scope of the situation, the message that the Iranian people have been trying to get out is quite clear. They want change. Well, at the end of last week, I spoke with a U.S. ambassador to the United Nation, United Nations, Mike Waltz, for my weekend program this week on Capitol Hill. We talked about the protest in Iran. So I’d like to share with you that discussion that we had over the weekend. Here is how we got the conversation started. All right. So the unrest in Iran, is it subsiding or does it remain volatile?
SPEAKER 17 :
Well, we’re seeing the protests continue, but at the same time with the brutality that the regime has meted out on its own people, massive arrests by the UN’s own figure, up to 18,000 killed. Other international figures have it anywhere from 12 to 20, regardless. This has been a massacre. The regime has used military-grade weapons and mowed down its own people. In addition to that, we’re seeing tens of thousands of arrests. It appears the executions that were eminent have stayed for a bit, and I think that’s in direct response to the regime being afraid of the potential actions President Trump could take. But we’re watching closely, Tony, and it is wholly unacceptable, and I made that point to the United Nations Security Council, not only made that point, but called them out for their silence over the prior week as the regime has gone to an absolute blackout cracked down and once again brutalized its own people.
SPEAKER 06 :
Ambassador, you are well-versed on these issues. When you were in the House, frequent guest on my program discussing foreign policy issues. So Iran is not new to you. So let me ask you this question. Is this unique? Are we at a tipping point? Could we see something fundamentally change there?
SPEAKER 17 :
Well, here’s what’s different from the prior protests. I mean, we remember, you know, an uprising under the Obama administration, the Green Movement, where, frankly, the administration and President Obama did next to nothing in response. President Trump’s not a man of talk. He’s a man of action, number one. Number two, the second executive order he put in place was to reinstitute his maximum pressure campaign that had been lifted under the Biden administration. So what’s critically different here is the Iranian economy is not going to approve anytime soon. Their currency is tanking. They are able to export less and less of their illegal oil. President Trump put the buyers of that oil and anything else coming from Iran on notice with another promise of additional tariffs. And we took out, at least for the foreseeable future, the Iranian nuclear threat. So the regime is ultimately afraid. It’s afraid of its own people. It’s afraid of losing power. And it certainly is afraid of the potential action from President Trump.
SPEAKER 06 :
The current situation, the economic unrest, is evidence that the sanctions were working because the people are saying, hey, enough is enough.
SPEAKER 17 :
Reports are that the Gulf’s… Tony, sorry to interrupt you. Just an important point. One of the metrics that I watch very closely and have throughout my career, and including President Trump’s first term, is that Iran’s terrorist proxies are complaining. The Houthis, Hezbollah, their militias in Iraq. Hamas and others aren’t getting the plane loads of cash. And now Venezuela as well aren’t getting the plane loads of cash that they used to. And that means that the terrorist trust fund that sits in Tehran is drying up. And for everybody out there saying, why do we care? Look, the root of all evil. comes out of this Iranian regime across the Middle East that has caused conflict after conflict, President Trump is focused on fundamental change. And first and foremost, it’s drying up the regime’s money that it’s used to fuel these wars all over the Middle East and the world. And that’s happening?
SPEAKER 06 :
And the the people of Iran who do not agree, a large portion of them with their government are taking to the streets. We’re at that looks like catalytic moment, a turning point, tipping point, if you will. But at the end of the week, reports were that the Gulf states were stepping in, trying to urge the more of diplomatic negotiations to get the U.S. to back off. Is that true?
SPEAKER 17 :
Well, look, one of the things, one of the threats that Iran has always put out there on the table, aside from promising to wipe out the nation of Israel and attack the great Satan, which they call the United States, the other threat is to launch short-range missiles all over their neighbors and attack their neighbors in the Middle East. You’ll remember just a few years ago they attacked Iran. one of the world’s largest oil refineries, Saudi Aramco, directly. So, look, the region will always want to be sure that they can defend themselves and that we can help defend them if the regime lashes back. And I can promise you, Secretary Hegseth, Rubio, and, of course, the president will make sure that we hear their concerns and address them.
SPEAKER 06 :
All right. That was my conversation from this week on Capitol Hill with Ambassador to the United Nations Mike Waltz. You can actually look at the entire interview this week on CapitolHill.com. Better yet, get the Stand Firm app and you can watch it on the app text app to 67742. All right. When we come back, we’re going to return to the conversation about Iran, as well as the phase two of President Trump’s peace plan for Gaza. So stay tuned. More straight ahead.
SPEAKER 07 :
Should a Christian support Israel? That question has become one of the most emotionally charged issues of our time, both in the world and within the church. Family Research Council President Tony Perkins offers a clear biblical and prophetic answer. In his latest book, He examines Israel’s past, present, and future through the lens of Scripture, revealing why support for Israel is not rooted in politics, partisanship, or cultural sentiment, but in the unchanging promises of God. Drawing from Genesis to Revelation, Tony Perkins demonstrates that the ultimate rationale for a Christian’s support for Israel is spiritual. Should a Christian Support Israel invites believers to see beyond headlines and ideologies, returning to the foundation of God’s Word to understand His heart for His chosen people and the blessings that flow when we stand with what He has established forever. Text the word Israel to 67742 for more information.
SPEAKER 14 :
What is God’s role in government? What does the separation of church and state really mean? And how does morality shape a nation? President John Adams said our Constitution was made only for moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. Join Family Research Council for God and Government, a powerful series that explores the connection between biblical principles and the American government, equipping you with truth to engage in today’s most pressing debates. We’ll uncover the foundations of our nation’s history and why it’s relevant for today. Join us to defend God’s plan for government because faith and freedom were never meant to be separate. You can view the course at prayvotestand.org slash godandgovernment or on the Stand Firm app.
SPEAKER 07 :
The book of Hebrews says that the Word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. Stand on the Word is Family Research Council’s journey through the living and active Word of God. Follow the plan with us. Spend 10 to 15 minutes a day reading God’s word, and over the course of two years, discover that the Bible is one big story, a story of many words pointing to the word, the one who is the same yesterday, today, and forever. because the Word is alive and His name is Jesus. Find our Bible reading plan and daily devotionals from Tony Perkins at frc.org slash Bible. Join us as we stand on the Word.
SPEAKER 06 :
Welcome back to Washington Watch. Thanks so much for joining us on this Monday. The website is TonyPerkins.com. Also, lots of resources there, as well as FRC.org and the Stand Firm app. Probably the best place to go for a one-stop. You get everything. You get Washington Watch, you get the Washington Stand, and you get Stand on the Word, our daily devotional. All of that’s found on the Stand Firm app. You go to the App Store and download the Stand Firm app. Our word for today comes from Genesis chapter 42. If you are honest men, let one of your brothers be confined to your prison house, but you go and carry grain for the famine for your houses and bring your youngest brother to me so your words will be verified and you shall not die. Then they said to one another, we are truly guilty concerning our brother, for we saw the anguish of his soul when he pleaded with us and we would not hear. Therefore, this distress has come upon us. You see, Joseph’s brothers lived in fear because of unconfessed guilt rooted in a life without fear of God. When a person does not fear God, they inevitably end up fearing everything else. Later, the brothers discover that their money had been placed in their sacks. Rather than receiving this as an act of provision or grace, they interpret it as judgment. My money has been restored, and there it is in my sack. Then their hearts failed them, and they were afraid, saying to one another, What is this that God has done to us? You see, unconfessed sin allows fear to rob us of God’s blessings. To find out more about our journey through the Bible, text BIBLE to 67742. That’s BIBLE to 67742. Over the weekend, Palestinian and regional officials confirmed the formation of the National Committee for the Administration of Gaza, which the Trump administration says is a vital step forward to implement phase two of the president’s 20-point Gaza peace plan. It has been more than three months since Israel and Hamas agreed to the plan, which led to the ceasefire between the two sides, which is held for the most part, and release of all the living hostages and all but one of the deceased hostages. According to the president’s special envoy, Steve Witkoff, the launch of phase two would moves the plan from ceasefire to demilitarization, the technocratic governance and reconstruction. Joining me now to unpack this is Greg Roman, the executive director of the Middle East Forum, a think tank which focuses on protecting American interests and values in the Middle East. He previously served as a political advisor to the Deputy Foreign Minister of Israel and worked for the Israeli Ministry of Defense. He joins us from Israel. Greg, welcome back to Washington Watch. Thanks for staying up late to join us.
SPEAKER 16 :
Hey, Tony, it’s always a pleasure to speak with you.
SPEAKER 06 :
All right. So let’s start with the National Committee for the Administration of Gaza, which the Trump administration describes as a transitional, technocratic Palestinian administration in Gaza. What does that mean? What do we know about it?
SPEAKER 16 :
So you have two bodies which exist now under the Board of Peace. One is the NCAG, or the National Committee for the Administration of Gaza, and the second is the Executive Board of the Board of Peace. They really have two similar yet distinct functions in terms of the way in which they are constituted. The NCAG is responsible for the day-in, day-out administration of the Gaza Strip, or at least on paper, they’re responsible for that. You have a former deputy Palestinian Authority planning minister who is in charge of the overall committee, and he has another dozen or so compatriots who are responsible for water, energy, policing, traffic, building, infrastructure. We’ll all be given the equivalent of a ministerial portfolio, if you will, if you were to make them akin to a mayor’s cabinet. Or perhaps if you were to look at it on a gubernatorial level, a secretary of state, a director of the treasury, so on and so forth. But they are not in the Gaza Strip. They’re currently administering from Egypt. So they actually have no influence on the ground right now. You pair that with the executive board, which is a group of individuals that have certain relationships with the Trump administration, with the government of Israel, even though Israel did not have the ability to give input to who would be on that executive committee nor on the National Committee for the Administration of Gaza. And they’re more responsible now. for overseeing the international fundraising for this and the administration of this on an international level. How they work together on paper, it’s defined, but how they report to the Board of Peace has not actually been put into implementation yet. And that’s a question which has yet to be seen. And the cloud or the specter which is over all of this is the fact that Hamas has not agreed to this yet. And they are still armed. They still have half of Gaza’s population under their control. And they have no intent of letting go anytime soon.
SPEAKER 06 :
So that was my next question, Greg, is that are we stepping over a very fundamental piece here? And that was the fact that Hamas was going to be gone, disarmed and no longer an obstacle.
SPEAKER 16 :
Look, they’re trying to have a piece of the cake and be able to save the entire thing, too. I mean, Hamas, in terms of its interlocutors in Turkey and Qatar, the two state sponsors of the terror organization, now have de facto representation on the Board of Peace by having seen the government of Turkey and its foreign minister, Hakan Fidan, And the henchmen associated with Sheikh Tamim, Ali Al-Fawadi, who reports directly to Sheikh Tamim, the ruler of Qatar, his brother, Mohammed bin Hamad, have their two supplicants on board. And they’re effectively going to be acting as Hamas’s shield in this process. They are both assigned one vote. But, you know, at the end of the day, it’s the president who’s going to make the decisions on this. And I think the president has been very clear. And Steve Witkoff, his envoy, has also been clear. And he made such an announcement just two days ago with the announcement of this board of peace. Hamas must completely disarm. And the fact that these two individuals representing Turkey and Qatar, Hamas’s main supporters, are on this committee means that when it comes to where the rubber has to meet the road, either the president will have his policy fulfilled or Turkey and Qatar will be in a lot of trouble if Hamas doesn’t adhere to what President Trump expects in phase two of this process.
SPEAKER 06 :
Greg, you’re there in Israel. How is the Israeli government, primarily the prime minister, responding to this invitation or this provision that would allow Qatar and Turkey to be a part of this process in Gaza?
SPEAKER 16 :
So there was a deal of surprise that came from the Israeli government on Saturday evening when this was announced, with the prime minister issuing a terse tweet saying the policy of the government of Israel is not to accept the current constitution of the Board of Peace Executive Committee. And he tasked Foreign Minister Gideon Saar to deal with this directly in conversation with Secretary of State Marco Rubio. I think that the president and his secretary of state will listen to the Israelis. But this is, again, just all in theory. In practice, the Qataris and the Turks are trying to set up the Israeli government to get into a fight. with the United States. But I think the biggest impediment to this is not the Israeli government. It’ll be the Hamas terror organization, which will not allow this Board of Peace to actually execute any planned provision for rebuilding the Gaza Strip if they are, for all intents and purposes, trying to stay in power in Gaza.
SPEAKER 06 :
I want to ask you to kind of unpack for us, I mean, Many people may know the answer to this, but it’s good to fill in the blanks for folks. Why the prime minister and the Israeli government would be so opposed to having Erdogan, the president of Turkey, involved in what’s happening in Gaza? I mean, kind of unpack for us public statements that he has made regarding Israel, regarding the Jewish people and his intentions as the leader of Turkey.
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, it’s not just something he said in the last week, in the last year since October 7th. There is a 24-year history of Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the president of Turkey, his anti-Semitism, his anti-Zionism, frankly, his anti-Christian positions that he’s taken. and his anti-American attitude starting all the way back in March of 2003 when he refused to support the U.S. invasion of Iraq, moving all the way to 2009 when he called the president of Israel and Israelis baby killers, moving to hosting the Hamas organization in Istanbul and Ankara, and even going so far as to allege that Israel was engaged in genocide against the Palestinian people. This was all the while, while he was massacring Kurds, while he was destroying Christian heritage sites, while he was waging a silent war against Armenia, and he was supporting jihadi groups in Syria which killed Christians and threatened Israel. With one hand, he speaks President Trump as a friend, and on the other hand, he’s trying to rebuild a Muslim caliphate to replace the vacuum that the defeat of Iran after the 12-day war took place. And he sees himself as being the heir to the Ottoman Empire. He is not to be tested. And so far as it relates to him having been challenged, Israel is the only impediment to Erdogan’s full conquest of Sunni Islamism throughout the rest of the Middle East.
SPEAKER 06 :
The prime minister, you said he made a terse statement, very clear that this was not acceptable. But he has a coalition, a parliament, and he has a governing coalition that he’s put together. And he has people on his right. I mean, people see him as pretty strong, but he’s got people on his right that are saying, we’re not about to trade Hamas in what we went through on October 7th. and walk away from that and allow Qatar and Turkey to rebuild the same type of launching pad for terrorism.
SPEAKER 16 :
Right, and that’s not just the position of parties to his right. It’s the party of Benjamin Netanyahu and the Likud party’s position, and also parties to his left, Yisrael Beiteinu, which is a secular right-wing party that’s not part of the government. Yesh Atid, and its opposition leader. Even the Democrats, who was the successor to Israel’s Labor Party, have all said that the current composition of this executive board with Qatar and Turkey’s participation is unacceptable right now. to the Israeli Knesset writ large, maybe 10 members of Knesset, the Arab parties would agree to it. But 110, which constitutes over 90% of the Knesset’s parliamentary representation, don’t accept this proposition. So it’s not just a position that the prime minister had representing his own political views or the views of his government, but it’s frankly a representation of the Israeli people.
SPEAKER 06 :
But Greg, to your point earlier, you said this is an important discussion, but we’re never going to get to this place because Hamas is never going to let go.
SPEAKER 16 :
Correct. And I think, again, it’s just a test of political theory. And really, it should be put into the dustbin of history, because even though the president of the United States has good intentions, even though he’s trying to rely on erstwhile U.S. frenemies to support this, at the end of the day, it’s going to be Turkey and Qatar stabbing him in the front, because they will continue to support Hamas, which is directly anathema to U.S. policy and U.S. law.
SPEAKER 06 :
So what is the way forward?
SPEAKER 16 :
The way forward is to rely on a coalition of America’s willing Arab allies, its willing Muslim allies, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Egypt, some North African countries like Morocco, which are members of the Abraham Accords, and asking them to take responsibility for the management of the Gaza Strip away from Israel, putting it into the hands of responsible moderate Muslim and moderate Arab allies. Allow the Europeans to get involved. Anything that keeps the Qataris, the Turks, and frankly, any Islamist actors out to guarantee Hamas’s disarmament. Otherwise, the choice will be five Israeli reserve divisions, which will finish the occupation and invasion of the Gaza Strip to root out Hamas stem and root.
SPEAKER 06 :
All right. Well, there’s a lot of prayer that needs to go into that situation there because it remains volatile. I mean, I’m in agreement with you. I’m grateful the president has taken the leadership and brought us to this point. But this is where reality comes in when we understand the dynamics of what Hamas is after and others within the Palestinian Authority. They don’t want peace. They’ve had years to arrive at peace with the Israeli people. They don’t want it. All right. We just have a few minutes left, Greg. I want to get to Iran. What do you see happening? What’s the latest in Iran? How do you see this playing out?
SPEAKER 16 :
I would ask that your viewers and listeners pay attention to an article that came out in yesterday’s London Sunday Times. 26,500 dead, 400,000 injured, hundreds of thousands in Iranian state custody and prison, and yet they continue to march. They continue to protest. They continue to turn out to fight against the regime. What we’re looking at right now in Iran is a zombie state. The economy has collapsed. The ability to provide electricity, water, basic sustenance is over. The economy has actually moved to a bartering system where they can no longer reside in respect the currency or rely on the currency, which is being used. And in fact, you’re starting to see defections coming from the regime. I think that’s what’s happening is President Trump is concentrating American forces in the region to provide a credible threat to carry out on his words that he’s with the Iranian people. And if the Ayatollah doesn’t go, he’ll help push him along. What’s the tipping point? Frankly, I think you have to have at least two aircraft carriers in the region. You have to have at least 10 to 12 destroyers which help Israel and U.S. allies and U.S. bases in the region with an anti-missile defense shield like we had back in June. I think you need to have special operators who are on the ground ready to extricate any American pilots that may be shot down. And frankly, this is not being done without risk to the United States, and I think that’s very important to pay attention to. but president trump is trying to create a situation in which the u.s has maximum advantage and if the ayatollah continues with his repression of the iranian people and there is not a pathway to his removal from power whether by hook or by crook then we’ll see u.s action over the skies of iran assisting the iranian people who have already been active on the ground for the past 22 days greg a minute left what what are the capacity what’s the capacity remaining for iran
SPEAKER 06 :
militarily.
SPEAKER 16 :
Iran, the Ayatollah still has five million adherents who can put under arms across 31 provinces in the country. It’s not as if, though, it’s going to be something that happens overnight. But we saw something astounding happen today. The Ayatollah arrested former Iranian President Rouhani and former foreign minister Javad Zarif due to the fact that these two members, who just had served four years ago as the president and foreign minister of this country, were in touch with Reza Pahlavi, the crown prince of Iran, the Shah’s son. So when you see members of your own regime, its former president and foreign minister getting in touch with the opposition leader, your end days are not looking good.
SPEAKER 06 :
Wow, that’s quite significant. Greg Roman, again, I want to thank you for staying up late and joining us there live from Israel. Always great to see you and always appreciate your insight.
SPEAKER 16 :
Thank you very much. Hope you have a great evening.
SPEAKER 06 :
All right. Greg Roman. All right. I do want to encourage you to be praying. All right. A lot to pray about, both domestically and internationally, but very, very important issues as things unfold in the Middle East. Until next time, I leave you with the encouraging words of the Apostle Paul found in Ephesians 6, where he says, and you’ve done everything you can do, and you’ve prayed when you’ve prepared, when you’ve taken your stand. By all means, keep standing.
SPEAKER 03 :
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