In this insightful podcast episode, host Barbara Carmack along with Darren, guide Jodi from Aurora on a path of spiritual discovery, focusing on the importance of understanding God’s word over man’s traditions. They engage in a meaningful conversation about the intricacies of tithing and the steps Jodi can take to find peace in her faith journey. This episode highlights the significance of the Old Testament stories and their application in modern life as Jodi navigates spiritual queries with the help of Barbara and Darren.
Welcome to Call to Freedom with Barbara Carmack. This is Jimmy Lakey, and I’m delighted that you are joining us for this half hour. You can reach Call to Freedom at Box 370367, Denver, Colorado, 80237, or by going to the website at www.freedomstreet.org. If you want to leave a message or order a Word Power Daily Reading Bible Guide or a Freedom Street Express newsletter, you can call us toll free at 1-877-917-7256 and leave your name and address, including your zip code. If you want to talk to Barbara right now, she is expecting your call. You may call that same toll-free number, 1-877-917-7256 to speak to her. And now, let’s join Barbara in the studio.
SPEAKER 01 :
On this encore show, Darren and I spend most of the half hour talking to Jodi, who has been raised in the shadow of man’s religion. She has needs on several fronts, and Darren and I try to influence her to get into the word and see what God says about several subjects that are discussed. Like so many Christians, Jodi has her own explanation on tithing. And we try to explain to her that God must have preeminence in her life. Darren gives Jody Hosea 4.6. My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge because they’ve rejected knowledge. When you rely on man’s religion rather than on the word of God, what you’re believing invalidates the word of God. Make sure that you’re not following the tradition of man. Now let’s join the program.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, I praise the Lord for the Old Testament. The stories in the Old Testament are just awesome, and they really do apply to today. And I know, Barbara, you’re so excited. You’re probably the most excited person I know about stories in the Old Testament. And God gives you unusual applications as those stories apply to today. So I see you over there in 2 Chronicles 29. And just as a matter of introduction, we don’t do this every day, but I’m Darren, and my wife Barbara is sitting across from me here, and we do this show every day called Darren in Denver. And, my goodness, we’ve got a live one already. We’ve got a Jody in Aurora. Let’s talk to her. Jody, how are you doing?
SPEAKER 02 :
Hi, I’m doing good. God bless you. Thank you. Same to you. I’m calling today. I called and talked to you guys before about the Holy Spirit. And, unfortunately, I don’t have a real good update for you yet. I haven’t been speaking in tongues yet, but I am waiting patiently.
SPEAKER 04 :
Have you asked the Holy Spirit to baptize you?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah. Yeah. Do you mean have I been baptized in the Holy Spirit as far as through my pastor laying hands on me?
SPEAKER 04 :
Right, right. Does your pastor believe in speaking in tongues?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right, let me tell you something that will shortcut this for you. If you will start saying, I have been baptized in the Spirit, and it’s easy to speak in tongues, it will probably come for you when you’re driving down the road or taking a shower. In other words, you’ve got your mind, your conscious mind on something else, and then your spirit will just come forth, and the Holy Spirit will be able to pray through you.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah. I believe, Jodi, that waiting on the Lord is a misnomer here. I really do. I believe if the Lord’s baptized you in the Holy Spirit, you know you have to use your tongue and you have to use your lips and you control that. Now, the language that comes up, you don’t know, but you speak it out. You don’t wait on the Lord for this. You really don’t. He has already baptized you. What you do is start speaking in English and praising him and just turn off the English and you’re going to have a language there. If you continue to use your tongue and your lips and your mouth, you’re going to have a language there. It’s that simple. It’s no waiting on the Lord.
SPEAKER 02 :
I’ve tried to do that, and maybe I just don’t know how to turn it off.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, you’re being too technical about it, Joy.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yes, you are. I wish you could come Tuesday night so we could really pray with you. And it is just so simple. You’re making it too difficult. You really are. You’re making it something like a… something ethereal or spooky or something like that, but it is, and all you do is start speaking with your tongue and your lips in English, and you use that same method to speak in a language you don’t understand.
SPEAKER 04 :
But I really encourage you, Jody, to do what I first suggested when you called here, and that’s just thank the Lord you’re baptized in the Spirit. Just start declaring. It’s easy to speak in tongues. And some people do it by humming, whatever. It’s not something you contrive, but the Lord is ready to bring forth utterance for you.
SPEAKER 1 :
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 04 :
Are we helping you?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, that wasn’t the reason why I called in.
SPEAKER 01 :
I didn’t think it was the reason why you called in.
SPEAKER 02 :
I really was calling in because of another matter. I did want to say, though, that my husband feels like the Lord has called him into ministry. However, without me speaking in tongues, they won’t let him start ministry.
SPEAKER 03 :
What church are you in?
SPEAKER 02 :
What church do you go to? I’m in an apostolic church.
SPEAKER 04 :
Apostolic church, okay. Oh, my goodness. Well, let me tell you, you’re going to speak in tongues.
SPEAKER 01 :
No wonder you don’t speak. You’re so intimidated by everybody. Well, that is ridiculous. I have to say personally, I think that is absolutely ridiculous.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, my pastor disagrees with it as well. However, there’s nothing he can do about a law that was made several, several years ago.
SPEAKER 01 :
A law by man? A law made by man? Yeah. And your pastor can’t override a law made by man for a law made in a word?
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, come on. What happens when you… Let’s just assume that everything was approved. What happens then for you to go into ministry?
SPEAKER 02 :
Then he… Not for me. For my husband. I understand. Would be that he needs two years of laymanship.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 02 :
And then after the two years, he would be accepted… as a minister.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay, then would you be full-time in ministry then?
SPEAKER 02 :
Full-time as far as quit his job?
SPEAKER 03 :
Right.
SPEAKER 02 :
Probably not. Our church is very small, and my pastor isn’t even full-time in it.
SPEAKER 03 :
I see.
SPEAKER 02 :
So he still has to work another job to make ends meet. He doesn’t even take a salary from the church yet.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, let me make this suggestion to you, Jody. Have I ever met you?
SPEAKER 02 :
No, I work in the evening. That’s why I can never make it.
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, I’m sorry. Well, here’s what I’m going to really suggest to you in addition to the baptism. You and your husband really need to get a biblical revelation of how God provides for people. Are you folks tithers?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay. Do you tithe off the gross of your paycheck?
SPEAKER 02 :
Gross.
SPEAKER 04 :
In other words, if you make $2,000, for example, do you give $200 to the Lord?
SPEAKER 02 :
We tithe after taxes. That’s what we were taught to do.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay. Let me make a suggestion to you. In the book of Malachi, it says bring the whole tithe to the storehouse. And I’ll tell you the ones, I’ll just tell you by experience, the ones that I know that are most blessed tithe before taxes.
SPEAKER 01 :
That’s right. Oh.
SPEAKER 04 :
They tithe on the gross. Oh.
SPEAKER 01 :
I believe, Jody, you’ve been listening a lot to the law of man, and you haven’t been in the word and deciphering it for yourself. And that’s so important. If you’re going to be a pastor’s wife, if you’re going to be a minister’s wife, Jody, you have got to understand God and his very heart for you. And I think you have been listening to the law of man a lot. I really do.
SPEAKER 04 :
See, I would be concerned about following a person that… And this is not a, well, I guess maybe it is a little personal here about your pastor, but I think that we in the ministry need to understand that God can provide for us if we do it His way. That’s right. And if we tithe as pastors, if we tithe as teachers, and we tithe as lay people, God is going to bless us and all of our needs will be met according to His riches and glory. It really says that in Scripture.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, I believe that, but I was taught that when the Scripture said, give unto Caesar that which was Caesar’s, and then give unto the Lord that which is the Lord’s, it didn’t say and then, but that was the next part of the verse. And so I was explained that because it was written that way, you first give your taxes and then you tithe after the taxes. That was what was explained versus that scripture.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, see, I had some friends that when I was going to college, they deducted babysitting, they deducted transportation, they deducted clothing.
SPEAKER 01 :
No, no, no.
SPEAKER 04 :
No, you can’t.
SPEAKER 01 :
I wouldn’t do that. I don’t believe that is even in context with tithing. I really don’t. And every time in the Old Testament, if you’ll read through all of the faithful men of God and women of God, they gave their first fruits. That is first fruits. First 10%. That’s above everything else. And sure, they paid taxes even in Joseph’s days. The people paid taxes, but their first went to God. Okay. Because you’re putting, as an example, you’re putting the government before God here. Right. And we don’t put anything before God. Nothing. No government institution. Nothing comes before God in our lives.
SPEAKER 04 :
So I’ll tell you, I think God’s giving you guys some time to get into the word and really get a revelation. Also, you want to get a what we call a rhema voice from God. You want God to be able to speak to you. particularly in these days, ministry is not easy. It’s tough.
SPEAKER 01 :
Oh, it is.
SPEAKER 04 :
And if you get the finances straightened out where, you know, if you give God his due, actually we’re handling his money, that first 10% isn’t even ours. So if we’re good stewards of taking that first 10% and we put it in his work, then we need to be stewards of the 90% that’s left. That’s our money to deal with. And I look at it this way, then the taxes, even though the government figures it on your gross check, Those taxes then come out of that 90% that’s left. And then what’s after that? 90%, obviously, that’s what we have for our household and our cars and clothes and so on.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, God is very, you know, he’s generous. He’s letting us take 90%. Some of these religions, they want everything.
SPEAKER 04 :
Now, let me give you another thing, Jody. It says if you do that, if you bring the whole tithe to the storehouse… He’ll, number one, open the windows of heaven and pour out a blessing on you. And number two, or you could say number three, he’ll rebuke the devourer for you.
SPEAKER 01 :
And you don’t have to feel like you’ve got to have a job and your husband’s got to have a job and you’ve got a minister on the side. When you get this concept that if I’m called to be a minister, a laborer is worthy of his hire, God’s going to provide. Just like Darren and me, we’re full time in this and we get our labors, our hire, our worth from the ministry. Right. And we really desire that for you and your husband. If you’re really called, if you’re really called to be ministers, you should be supported. You should be supported by the people that you’re teaching and by the people that you’re helping.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah. I feel the same way for my pastor, really. Yes. He refuses to take anything because there’s really nothing to take.
SPEAKER 04 :
But do you want to know why there isn’t anything to take, Jody? Let me give it to you this way. I was raised in a church and we taught salvation and people got saved. But we didn’t teach healing out of Scripture and people didn’t get healed or rarely got healed. If they got healed, we had people walking out of our church saying, Why weren’t we lucky? We got healing, which is a slap in the face of God. So if you take the whole Gospel of God, the whole Word of God, And if there’s a lack in the area of finances and prosperity, then you need to concentrate on that until you get God’s word in your heart on prosperity. Now, here’s why that’s really important, Jody. You’re going to be ministering to people who will be looking up to you for direction. And if they come and they say to you, what’s your husband’s name, Jody? Okay, if they say, Jody and Mario, we can’t pay our bills. And if you haven’t gotten it worked out out of the Word of God for your own finances and your own ministry, how can you minister to that person?
SPEAKER 03 :
I see.
SPEAKER 04 :
So God wants to give you a revelation so that you know, so that you can turn around and say to the people that are under your shepherd ship. See, that’s being a shepherd of the sheep. And then you turn around and say, well, here’s how it works for us guys. We’re so excited because God blesses us because we time.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 04 :
And he keeps us safe. He keeps our car going. And, you know, there’s always groceries on the table and we’re never short. And when you can give that kind of testimony, I believe then you’re a worthy shepherd to look after a flock or a portion of a flock. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right. Now let’s take healing.
SPEAKER 02 :
That’s actually why I called. Oh, really? Okay. We’ll get there. We’ll get there. Because if I could just. put my question down maybe you can ask it yeah we’ll finally let you talk go for it um is the the okay i i’m really confused as to i know what the lord says and the verse that i always try to remember is james 5 15 and um were we anoint with oil um no that one is um a prayer offered in faith will heal a sick man and will lift him up. And if he has sinned, he will be forgiven. And so I always try, you know, that’s my verse that I am based on because I’ve heard you say that you need to be based on at least one verse. Right.
SPEAKER 01 :
You’re better off to have two or three.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 04 :
Or 20 or 30.
SPEAKER 02 :
My problem is, you know, I pray, and sometimes I feel like I have 100% faith, and other times I don’t. And I also heard Barbara say one time that, you know, your healing doesn’t always necessarily come all at once. immediately. Right. Sometimes it takes time to happen. But I also don’t know what to do, because I’ve heard you guys say something about when you say, like, right now, I’m going to say it, but correct me if I’m wrong, but I have a cold. Okay. And By saying that, am I cursing myself?
SPEAKER 04 :
No, no. See, now, if you go around and that’s all you can say is, I’ve got a cold, I’ve got a cold, I’ve got a cold, this thing never goes away, I always catch a cold, then I believe you are.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay, now. I always get the cold.
SPEAKER 04 :
Some people are so scared to even give you some idea what to pray for, and that’s going overboard the other way.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, total denial is not in faith either.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, it didn’t make any sense to me because it’s like, well, if I don’t say I have a cold, I’m lying, so…
SPEAKER 04 :
well do you have a pencil there jody um i can get one okay we’ll wait for you and uh what we’re going to give you here i think will help a lot of people and that’s that’s one of the great things about a talk show is particularly if it’s based in scripture however there’s a lot of talk shows where they’re just blowing and going well we can learn a lot here too you know all right jody are you there yeah i’m ready Okay, I want you to write this scripture down. This one you can look up after you get off here. But Hosea 4.6 says, My people perish for lack of knowledge. Now that’s God speaking about His children. Okay, some people perish for lack of knowledge on healing. They perish in the area of healing. Some struggle in the area of finance because they don’t have their word on finance. Some struggle in the areas of peace and protection because they don’t understand scriptures there. And God does everything through His word. So when we stand on his word, in other words, the building blocks in that particular area, the substance of faith in that area, then God has something to use in our life. Because all through the New Testament where Jesus was healing people, he frequently said to them, as your faith, so be it unto you. So he would say to you today, as your faith, Jody, so we’re going to do away with that cold. Now, if you don’t have enough faith, we can ask for more faith. The only place you get faith is from the word of God and from God himself. But it’s possible for you to receive that. You have a precious heart, Jody. You’re teachable. That’s wonderful. I just commend you.
SPEAKER 01 :
Were you calling about the cold or something else?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, the cold and I guess in combination with just letting you guys know that I hadn’t spoken in tongues.
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, that’ll come. That’ll come.
SPEAKER 01 :
I just wish I could get hold of you personally.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, maybe I’ll have to ask off for Tuesday. Is it Tuesday?
SPEAKER 04 :
It’s Tuesday.
SPEAKER 02 :
In October. We have to ask off one month in advance. Uh-oh.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, let me say this to you, Jody. I think the reason you have a cold, now let’s talk about this. I think your cold is a symptom of conflict internally. Do you have children?
SPEAKER 02 :
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 04 :
How many?
SPEAKER 02 :
Two.
SPEAKER 04 :
Two. How old are they?
SPEAKER 02 :
One is six months and the other is six years. Okay.
SPEAKER 04 :
I think when you and your husband, Mario, is it Mario?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
I think when you guys get it worked out in the area of finances biblically and God begins to carry that burden for you and you know every month the rent’s going to be paid, the car payment’s going to be taken care of.
SPEAKER 02 :
How did you know that we were hurting financially?
SPEAKER 01 :
I never told you that.
SPEAKER 04 :
That’s Holy Spirit. See, that’s one of the gifts that comes with time.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, and for what you’ve been taught, you know, after taxes, we put the U.S. government so high up there, Jody, that we use them as God sometimes. And boy, we’ve got to make sure we pay the government. But, you know, God, you can handle missing it this month. And it’s not your fault, but we have been raised in that kind of mentality to put the government up in a much higher status than even God. So that’s why we know.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, let me tell you what’s been happening for you, Jody, and this is the Holy Spirit, okay? The Holy Spirit is really sharing with me that you’ve been worried over finances. You feel like you’ve been pressured over this matter of speaking in tongues so your husband can be really accepted in full favor at the church. Yes. Well, when you worry over those things, a lot of times then that worry causes a cold.
SPEAKER 01 :
Or it breaks down our system. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER 04 :
And sometimes, Jody, that gets real serious and it ends up over his arthritis and some other things. So that’s one reason why we tell people you need to have a relationship with the Holy Spirit so he can guide you. Now, for example, we could pray for the cold and it could go away. But if the cause of the cold is still there, it could come back. So we like to see God bring total peace to a person so they get rid of the symptoms. See, this cold is just a symptom of something spiritual. That’s right. And I’m not calling this sin here, but you just haven’t been taught. So it’s like I said to a fellow here a couple of weeks ago, your spiritual ignorance in certain areas or the lack of knowing or the lack of teaching is hurting you.
SPEAKER 01 :
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER 04 :
Does that make sense? Yes.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yes. And, you know, that guilt feeling of, you know, like if somebody said to Darren, well, Darren, you’d be a good minister if it weren’t for your your wife, Barbara, and maybe some. But, you know, I would immediately feel not only intimidated by that statement, but guilty that I was keeping my husband from doing something that God might want him to do. And so that guilt would really have an effect on my life, I believe. Are you feeling a little guilty?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, I’ve been taught by one of the ministers in my church that he used his example that he had to wait two years before the Holy Spirit entered him. even though he had been baptized way before that.
SPEAKER 04 :
Let me ask you the question, though. Does he have scripture for that?
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah. No. Well, you just can’t take people’s experiences and make that your experience.
SPEAKER 02 :
But my church bases the fact that they say it’s a gift, and when someone gives you a gift, you… obviously have to wait for them to give you that gift.
SPEAKER 01 :
That’s what they tell me. Oh, and see, that’s not scriptural either. Is that scriptural? Do you have a scripture for that? And also, if you’ll read in Paul’s writings, Paul says, if I speak with tongues of men and of angels, and then he talks about the gift of tongues as a corporate gift to the church in 1 Corinthians 12, he speaks as his own speaking in tongues as not a gift primarily, but but a way of life for him. He speaks in tongues more than you all. It’s not in church where he speaks in tongues. His tongues that he got from God is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The gift of tongues, Jody, is in the corporate church when you use it and then somebody interprets your gift.
SPEAKER 04 :
I think, Jody, too, God doesn’t just decide, well, I’m going to baptize you because you’ve asked. He’s already made the offer. And it’s almost like it’s on will call. Did you ever have a package on will call? Did you ever order anything in pennies and he had it shipped to you?
SPEAKER 01 :
And you already paid for it. And then you just picked it up. Or tickets at a game and somebody else paid. Boy, that is so nice when somebody else says, I’ve got tickets and I’m going to leave it at will call. And you and Darren go and just pick them up. Right. You don’t have to pay anything.
SPEAKER 04 :
And we’d go. And we’d go.
SPEAKER 01 :
That’s what Jesus did for us. He did it all. He paid it all. All we have to do is just take it.
SPEAKER 04 :
Why don’t we pray for you, Jodi?
SPEAKER 01 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 04 :
Is that what you want? Uh-huh. All right. Do you know God listens to this show every day?
SPEAKER 03 :
It does.
SPEAKER 04 :
It’s not because of who we are. It’s because of who he is. He’s every place at all times, and he’s a partner, as we say, in every conversation. But, Lord, I pray and ask that you would take away the guilt. I believe Jody’s dealing with some false guilt and humiliation from some things she’s been taught, Father God, that may not have been right out of Scripture. It may have been man’s ideas and traditions. I pray and ask that you would take the guilt away and also lead her and Mario into an understanding of biblical finance. Lord, you want to bless our socks off. And many times we don’t know that, but we need to know that and also… Jesus already paid for all the healing we’ll ever need. And I pray and ask Jesus that you would just fill Jody’s spirit and mind and body so much with your power and your presence. Let her know your power and your presence so there won’t be any room for a cold. There won’t be any room for stress and worry and concern. And Lord, I thank you that it’s going to be easy for her to speak in this heavenly language. And Lord, protect her precious spirit. In Jesus’ name, amen.
SPEAKER 01 :
Amen. And just pour in that vitamin D and C, Lord, into our body in Jesus’ name. The sunshine of God’s love.
SPEAKER 04 :
Jody, I hope we get to meet you guys someday.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yes, really do. Maybe me. Well, have you ever gotten our tape, How to Keep Your Miracle?
SPEAKER 02 :
No. You know, I don’t really know what your tapes have such silly names. But I can’t tell which is what it’s about.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, this one doesn’t have a silly name. It’s just how to keep your miracle. Do you have a cassette deck, Judy? Yes. And we’ll send you maybe a couple. I’ll send it to you. Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
And when you listen to the tape, you can laugh all the way through if you want to.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 04 :
Don’t hurt my feelings.
SPEAKER 02 :
And I think what I need to do is also get your… I forgot what you call it.
SPEAKER 01 :
Oh, Power Pack. Okay, we’ll send you one of those.
SPEAKER 04 :
We’ll send you one of those. Do we have your address, Jodi?
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
You’re on our mailing list.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, I have it.
SPEAKER 04 :
Jodi, we’ll send it out to you. How’s that?
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay, thank you. God bless you. God bless you. Thank you.
SPEAKER 04 :
Will you do me a favor?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah. Are you there? Huh? Yes.
SPEAKER 04 :
You sound a little apprehensive. No big sin in today now.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yes, I will. That’s right. And God loves you. He really does. Just the way you are.
SPEAKER 04 :
I wish I was around you, Jodi. I’d give you a bad time.
SPEAKER 01 :
It’s a favor.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay. Hey, we love you.
SPEAKER 01 :
Congratulations on your baby. Thank you. And now is it a boy or a girl who’s six? He’s a boy. A boy. Oh, God bless you.
SPEAKER 04 :
And the baby is a girl?
SPEAKER 02 :
Oh, I’m sorry, wait. The baby’s a boy and the six-year-old is a girl. Is a girl. I got mixed up while you were asking. Oh, what a lovely family.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, God bless you, Jodi.
SPEAKER 02 :
What’s your favor?
SPEAKER 03 :
Favor?
SPEAKER 02 :
You said Darren asked me, will you do me a favor? Sure.
SPEAKER 04 :
Sure.
SPEAKER 02 :
Oh. No, you asked me. Would I do you a favor?
SPEAKER 04 :
Do me a favor.
SPEAKER 02 :
What was it?
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay, here it is. You ready?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay, I’m going to say it this time, so get it.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 04 :
Don’t be doing any big sinning today. Okay.
SPEAKER 03 :
No sin.
SPEAKER 04 :
That’s what I’d say to somebody if I knew them real, real well. No sinning today.
SPEAKER 03 :
No problem. Okay, it’s a deal. Thank you.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right. I love you.
SPEAKER 01 :
Bye. We love you. God bless.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, Barbara, what do you think?
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, I do believe, Darren, that Matthew 15 is so right. And the traditions of men, no matter how well-intentioned they are, they make null and void the word of God. And until I actually got, you know, I spent 30 years just messing around in my denomination, believing what men said and not believing. not looking at the word and say, Father God, is this really what you mean? Until I got into the word and began discovering Father God’s heart and Holy Spirit and what they had, the blessings they had in mind for me. And it is really true. I believe it’s in Matthew 15.6. The traditions of men make null and void and powerless the word of God.
SPEAKER 04 :
And what we’re saying here, folks, is if your pastor says it, then you get in the Word and verify it for this reason. Not that we’re saying your pastor is wrong all the time, because they’re not. But what we’re saying is it will build your faith when you stand on the Word of God. Because one day you won’t have that same pastor anymore.
SPEAKER 01 :
That’s right. Or if he is your pastor, truly a pastor and not a hireling, not somebody that just got into the ministry to make some money and get security. He is your shepherd then. And you can go as a lamb to your shepherd and you can say, you know, you said this this morning. Could you please give me the scriptural reference for that so I can stand on that this week while I’m at home? And, you know, if he doesn’t have any, then you go home and look it up in Strong’s Concordance and get it for yourself. But you need to start beginning to say, is this man, is this church really feeding me? And are they feeding me? Are they giving me life? Are they restoring my soul like David said in Psalm 23? And if he isn’t, boy, I begin to ask the Lord for a place where I could feel really renewed and
SPEAKER 04 :
And you know it’s unfair to the pastors to put all the responsibility on them, and a lot of people do, say, well, the pastor said, the pastor believes, the pastor teaches, or the teacher teaches, or whatever. Let me tell you, when it comes to a time of accountability, God’s not going to give you an excuse when you start saying, the pastor said, the pastor said. Now look, you need to get healing for yourself. You need to get prosperity on your own. And when you pray, you don’t go through your pastor to get saved. You go through Jesus.
SPEAKER 05 :
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