In this compelling episode of Classic Christianity Radio, host Bob George offers profound insights on tithing, grace, and forgiveness. Caller Bobby from California shares concerns about tithing in the New Testament churches and how these teachings impact believers. Bob explains the difference between Old Covenant practices and New Testament grace, encouraging listeners to live freely in Christ’s love. The episode also ventures into the complex topic of deliberate sin, as explored in the book of Hebrews. Jeff from Detroit questions what deliberate sin truly means, and Bob unpacks the finality of the cross and what it signifies for believers
Welcome to Classic Christianity Radio with Bob George. Today we are pleased to present a special radio show featuring call-in listeners from Bob’s original people-to-people daily radio program that was on the air for over 30 years, offering real answers for real-life problems as he addresses common questions as well as the tough issues of today, directing callers to the centrality of Christ in you, your only hope of glory. We want to remind our listeners that Bob George Ministries needs your financial support to continue to have Classic Christianity Radio on the air. Please visit BobGeorge.net to find out how you can help support us financially. Let’s now join Bob as he presents practical biblical insights as he helps people experience a life of faith, hope, and love in Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER 02 :
Let’s go to Tulare, California. Let’s go on Carrie. Bobby, you’re on the air.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, hi, Ed. I’ve got a question about tithing. My question is because I’ve been saved going on 10 years, and I do really spend a lot of time either on my break at work or in my room alone. I read the Bible. I spend a lot of time with God. Well, I’ve been to actually quite a few churches, majority of like either non-denomination. And right now I’m involved with the Baptist Church, which is more of an independent. They say they’re independent. It’s Shiloh Baptists. And they preach tithing or you’re cursed or your life’s not right if you’re not given your tenth. And from what I understand, you know, and they use Malachi, which is very popular to them. Malachi, they always read verses 8 through 10, but they never read verse 7. Referring to that as being one of the ordinances that, of course, the Jewish, since their fathers have not kept since the beginning. So I really personally believe in reading Galatians and reading Romans, studying law and then grace. I don’t believe in me being a Gentile. according to the Word of God, you know. And the thing is, I don’t believe we’re under the old covenant. I don’t believe we’re under tithing. I believe, like, Corinthians says that, you know, as a person of purpose in the heart, so we should freely give. But they are so stuck. And if you’re not giving, you’re not in, like, forest tithing, you’re not in the will. If you’re not supporting this, you’re not in God’s will. And I look back to the promises that were made to Abraham, you know, that through him, you know, and things that he had done that pleased God, that nations would be blessed, you know, because I don’t know. I’m looking at…
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, well, your question is, Bobby, is tithing in the New Testament? And the answer is you’ve already got it. No, it isn’t. And quite frankly, I believe that it’s about time that somebody stands up and when somebody would tell me that you’re out of God’s will by not tithing to say to them, you are totally out of God’s will by teaching people that they’re supposed to tithe. there’s no justification for what you’re teaching. And besides that, you’re a legalist. And if you say that I’m going to be blessed because I tithe means that I’m not blessed, period, and God has already blessed me in the high calling of Christ Jesus. So all of that stuff is just a bunch of gobbledygook that people have come up with in order to meet their building drives. in order to build bigger buildings, in order to house people who don’t know the Lord or who are so carnal that they can hardly stand it. I just don’t have any tolerance for that anymore, Bobby. A person… Like yourself, you have the ability to read the scripture, and so do they. They’re not oblivious to the scripture, but they approach it with their own bias. They don’t approach the word of God, of Lord teach me, but they say, listen, I know that I’m going to teach my people to tithe, so try to justify that some way. So you’re 100% right, Bobby, and I wouldn’t be stuck anymore with that type of teaching. I think that you can have churches that teach tithing. It’s not right, but they’re not telling you if you don’t tithe that you’re going to go to hell or God isn’t going to bless you. When they get into that, I’m finding myself another church. Because that not only is error, it’s heretical to teach that God is going to zap you When God has zapped his son for me.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
I read clearly that in the Old Testament at the end of the book of Levites, that it’s one of the orders that were given from God to Moses for Israel, and that it is under the law of tithing. You know, there’s three types of laws that I studied.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, we don’t need to get into all that, Bobby. I think the… What we need to do is you’ve got a good handle on that type of thing, but the issue is the tithing was to support the Levitical priesthood, and we’re no longer under Levitical priesthood. If you’re born again, Christ Jesus is our high priest, and that’s been explained to us in great detail is to give joyfully, give without compulsion. So you’re right on, brother.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right. Well, thank you so much, okay?
SPEAKER 02 :
You’re sure welcome, Bobby. Thanks, Bobby. God bless you, my friend. Bye-bye. Detroit, Michigan. Let’s go on WRDT. Jeff, you’re on the air.
SPEAKER 03 :
Hey, Bob. How are you doing?
SPEAKER 02 :
Doing good, Jeff. Thank you.
SPEAKER 03 :
What is the deliberate sin that you talk about in Hebrews? Because like what you were just saying, like if we are self-righteous, are we deliberately being self-righteous?
SPEAKER 02 :
It isn’t talking about that, Jeff. It’s talking about if we deliberately keep on sinning after we receive the knowledge of truth. The context of this is in regard to what Hebrews is talking about is the finality of the cross. In other words, where your sins have entered into the new covenant that we live in today, where our sins and lawless acts are remembered no more, and where these have been forgiven, there is no longer any forgiveness of sins. So to the Jew, he would be saying, hang up your sacrificial system. Certainly, it wasn’t in effect in those days, but we just keep adding to it, to the Catholic, put aside your confession booth. To the evangelical, quit 1 John 1, 9 and yourself, thinking that that’s providing forgiveness. It isn’t providing forgiveness. Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness, and there isn’t any more shedding of blood. Now, if you deliberately keep on sinning against that knowledge of truth, that in regard to the forgiveness of sins that was provided once and for all by Christ Jesus, it says there’s no sacrifice for sins left. There isn’t a sacrifice, the final human sacrifice by God. Not an animal sacrifice, but a human sacrifice. God himself is the final sacrifice from God’s standpoint. There’s no more sacrifice for sins left. So put aside your sacrificial system. If you’re not going to do that, and you’ve received the knowledge of truth now that Jesus took away your sins, but you’re going back to your sacrificial system. He says there is nothing that you have to look forward to except the fearful expectation of judgment and the raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. In other words, going to hell. And so he’s saying that what you’re doing is treating as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him. This covenant we just talked about. Your sins and lawless acts I’ll remember no more. And where these have been forgiven, there’s no longer any sacrifice for sins. My sacrifice took away the sins of the entire world from the eyes of God back to Adam and forward to eternity. Now, when you deny that and keep going to your confession booths and keep going down the aisles to get forgiven every Sunday and you keep going back to your sacrificial system, You’re insulting the Spirit of grace. You’re trampling the Son of God underfoot, treating as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that set us apart, and insulting the Spirit of grace. We may not think we’re doing that deliberately, but that’s precisely what the Bible says we’re doing. So once you’ve come to understand the totality of what Christ Jesus came to do, And you keep going back to saying, well, yeah, okay, yeah, but there’s no buts to it. It could very well be a sign, as it talks about in Hebrews 6, that you have never repented. You can’t be brought back to repentance because you can’t be brought back from where you’ve never been, and you’ve never truly changed your mind. If your idea when you came to Christ is that Jesus took away my sins from that day forward, but it’s up to me to keep them clean from that day past, you’re not saved. No way you can be saved with that kind of a belief system. Or if you believe, well, yeah, I just now asked Jesus to come into my heart to be my Lord and Savior and to be my life, but I’m not going to be saved until I get dunked in water. I’m sorry. There’s no way for salvation for that to occur. And so it’s deliberately sinning against your knowledge of truth. And where you find the knowledge of truth, Jeff, is not in your denomination or not in tradition, but in or not in popularity. The gentleman talking about, suppose all these people that have been involved in all this are all wrong. Sure, absolutely. God doesn’t give a popularity contest. uh truth is not based upon voting how many people are for it or again it’s uh truth is out of the word of god okay yeah so it’s we’re still to try to be um abstain from sin right Jeff, you’re missing the whole point. Yeah, but you’re missing the whole point. The issue is that your sins have been put behind the back of God never to see them again, and now God wants you to walk by faith in him. Now, when you’re trying, you can’t be trusting. There’s no way for a branch to say, well, I am trying to produce some fruit, but I realize I can’t, but I’ll let God bear it through me, but I’m still working at it. It ain’t going to work. What you have to do is to recognize that Jesus lives in you and he’s there to guide you into all truth. And God isn’t dealing with you on the basis of sin today. If he was, he would have to deal with you on the basis of sin and death. So what is he dealing with you on the basis of is a new life that he’s given to you. You’re dealing with him, it says, as a loving father deals with a small child. And that’s a total life of discipleship. And that’s a total life of training and teaching. And all of his teaching, Jeff, will be pointing you back to what is profitable. You see, it says in the Bible, all things are permissible, but not all things are profitable. So it isn’t the case, is it permissible for me to go get drunk tonight? It’s the case, is it profitable? God isn’t going to zap me. He’s already taken that sin away if I did it. He’s already put that behind his back never to see it again. But I’d be a blithering idiot to go out and do that and to get my mind messed up. Why? Why would I want to go out and get my mind altered when I’m getting it renewed by God? It’s not profitable. It’s not profitable to my family. It’s not profitable to my health. It’s not profitable to anything. It has nothing but disaster connected with it. So you see how your reasoning goes? It’s not that you can’t. It’s just plain stupid. It just doesn’t make sense. It’s not profitable.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah. It’s not profitable for me to go gamble, you know, because I’m not going to win. So, I mean, if we, the gamblers, are the winners, who’s building those huge hotels? It certainly ain’t us. So I can look at that and say this is a no-win situation. And anybody who’s going out there thinking that’s a win situation, go out to Las Vegas, is just a fool. That’s a no-win situation. You can see that by the size of the buildings.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay, Jeff?
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 02 :
Does that help?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I just have to realize that he did rise from the dead, and he already forgave my sins, I hope.
SPEAKER 02 :
You are a forgiven person, Jeff, and he’s dealing with you now on the basis as a new creature. And when you blow it, he says, Jeff, was that consistent with what you just did, consistent with who you are as a child of God? And you look at that and you say, no, Lord, that certainly wasn’t. That isn’t what you have for me. That is the best. Say, Lord, let’s come reason together. What is causing me to believe the lie of Satan instead of believing you? Because that’s the root of all sin. Stop believing what Jesus said and started believing what Satan told you.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 02 :
So he’s going to work with your mind on that, Jeff. That’s why it says don’t be conformed to the world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.
SPEAKER 03 :
All right.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay, brother.
SPEAKER 01 :
Thank you for your call, Jeff.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay, pal. Bye-bye.
SPEAKER 01 :
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SPEAKER 02 :
Let’s go to West Bloomfield, Michigan. Let’s go on WRDT. Craig, you’re on the air.
SPEAKER 05 :
Hello, how you doing?
SPEAKER 02 :
Doing good, Craig. Thank you.
SPEAKER 05 :
Good. Thank you for taking my call. The reason I called, I caught part of the program today, and I heard somebody mention predestination. And I’ve been kind of studying this, and I’m not sure what you guys said about it, if you said anything about it on today’s program. But, you know, looking at Romans chapter number 9, obviously that’s one of the biggest passages that people use for election or predestination. And obviously I’m not going to read the whole thing, but…
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, Craig, let me say this. If you really want to study what predestination is, go to the book of Ephesians and then go back to Romans. Ephesians explains it more thoroughly than what Romans does, but obviously it’s the same writer. It’s predestination is the predestined that the Gentiles are going to come to Christ in the same way that the Jew is. It’s predestined for the Gentile to be adopted as his sons through Christ Jesus in accordance with the pleasure of his will. It’s called the mystery that is made known according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ to be put into effect when the times have reached their fulfillment, and to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, and that is Christ. And then in that book of Ephesians, in the first chapter, 11th, in him you were also chosen. Who’s the also? The Gentiles. having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, that’s the Jew, who were the first to hope in Christ, that’s the Jew, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also, that’s the Gentile, were included in Christ when you heard the word of God, the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation.” And having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing your inheritance. And so it’s dealing with over in chapter 2, verse 11. Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth. Remember at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants and promise without hope, without God in this world. But now in Christ Jesus, you who were once far away, that’s the Gentiles, have been brought near to the blood of Jesus. And he himself is our peace who has made the two one. Who’s the two? The Jew and the Gentile into one new man called the ecclesia, the church. And so in doing that, he has destroyed the barrier or the dividing wall of hostility between the Jew and the Gentile by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations that he had given to the Jew, not to the Gentile. And so he abolished those and put us all on the same level of coming to Christ by one way, being justified by one way, being given life by one way, and that’s through Christ. And it says his purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two and thus making peace. And in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross to which he put to death their hostility. He came and preached to you who are far away. That was the Gentile and peace to those who were near. That’s the Jew. For through him, we both have access to the father. by one spirit and consequently were no longer foreigners and aliens. So all of this was the mystery that was held in the heart of God in the third chapter. It says, you’ve heard about the administration of God’s grace that was given to me and that is the mystery made known to me by revelation as I’ve already written briefly. In reading this, you’ll be able to understand my insight into this mystery and which was not made known to other men and other generations, but has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. This mystery is that through the gospel, the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise of Christ Jesus. There’s one body, there’s one spirit, Just as you were called to one hope, there’s one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God, Father of all, who is over all, through all, and in all. That’s predestination. It has nothing to do with yous and me’s. It has to do with Gentiles and Jews.
SPEAKER 05 :
How do you handle a passage like in Romans 8? Like from verse 30 through, I guess, 3.
SPEAKER 02 :
Through that prism, through the prism that is to the Gentiles and to the Jews. He certainly wouldn’t be writing one thing in one book and another thing in another. So it’s through an understanding that that’s what predestination is, is his predestination that the Gentiles were going to obtain salvation the same way as the Jew and be made into one new man. And that’s the premise that I’m going to read that from.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah. I’d be curious to find out, like, if we went through, like, Romans chapter 9. I don’t know. For some reason, when I read through Romans chapter 9, it seems to be talking about, like, from an individual standpoint, like, where it says in verse 16 of Romans 9, it says, “…so that it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy.” And it uses one person, Pharaoh, as an example. Yeah. And it talks about one vessel unto honor and another unto dishonor. Things like that where it seems to be talking about individual people.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, again, Pharaoh’s heart, it’s like the sun. It will harden wax. It will melt wax and it will harden clay. It’s the same sun. The same message that melted the heart of Moses hardened the heart of Pharaoh. And so you can’t sit there and say, well, Jesus pre- or God predestined that. It’s just what it did to an obstinate heart. The message of salvation hardens the heart of a proud heart. It hardens it. And I want to tell you that doctrine of predestination to me is the most ridiculous theology on the face of the earth today to think. that God would assign some people to eternal punishment, and then we say that God is love. All of this came, Craig, from a misconception on the part of those people that salvation is getting your sins forgiven. Now, there’s where the error started. God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not counting their sins against him. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that if that’s true, the whole world’s saved. that God was in Christ reconciling the whole world unto himself, not counting their sins against him. No, they died for our sins, but the sins of the whole world. That would be universal salvation if salvation is getting your sins forgiven. Now, instead of going on and reading Romans 5, 8, that while we were yet enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, that being an accomplished fact, shall we be saved by his life? You’re not saved by the death of Christ, you’re saved by the life of Christ. You’re saved from the consequence of sin, which is death, by the gift of God, which is life. That’s why Paul said, without the resurrection, we’re to be pitied of all people, and they’re still in our sins, knowing full well that a cross had occurred where he took away the sins of the world, but also realizing that that forgiveness that was provided then is only received in the resurrected life of Christ. And so not understanding that truth and saying, well, that’s universal salvation. That can’t be. So he must have just died for the elect. And that’s where the misconception came in. Not understanding that you’re not saved by the death of Christ. You’re saved by the life of Christ. In that theology, they teach man does not have a will. That is utter nonsense. It is God’s will that none should perish and all should come to repentance. Well, how are you going to account for all the lost people in the world? Well, he didn’t mean all. That just meant the elect. That’s nonsense. And so don’t get hung up in that nonsensical theology of God picks you and picks me when that isn’t what predestination was about to begin with. I just read what it was about. It’s about Jew and Gentile. and then read those passages of Scripture in that light, and it all falls together. I have no mystery at all in Romans because I read it through that light. But if I read it through another light, it would sound a little strange.
SPEAKER 05 :
Can I ask you one more question?
SPEAKER 02 :
Sure.
SPEAKER 05 :
Thank you. It seems to also have built-in rhetorical questions, and I’m sure you know these as well, that want to deal with somebody who would be against it. Like, for instance, it’s asking, is there unrighteousness with God? It asks, who are you to reply against God, or who has resisted his will? And then that’s where it says, who art thou that replyest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, why hast thou made me thus? And again, it seems to have questions in place for somebody who would be against the doctrine of election or predestination as brought out. as questioned by myself, being somebody who’s just studied it for the first time.
SPEAKER 02 :
I think it’s a dangerous study. Here’s what, if God decided, and you just think about this for a minute, if you were a self-righteous, law-abiding Jew, and God came through his son and said, no man will ever be declared righteous in the sight of God through obedience to the law, wouldn’t that be great news to you? You’d just be mad as a wet hen. What are you talking about? I’m a law-abiding dude, and you’re telling me that that doesn’t mean I flip to God? That’s what I’m telling you. Paul said, I find myself with a righteousness that doesn’t come from obedience to the law but comes through Christ. Paul had to come to that. That’s God’s will. God said, I’m not interested in how bad you’ve been or how good you’ve been. I’m interested in how dead you are. When Adam died in the Garden of Eden, you were born into this world dead, and we, the Trinity, developed a plan to save you from eternal death. That was the plan of Jesus. He came to save you from eternal death. And you’re sitting there playing around with that. And I just don’t understand why somebody would want to play around with that because his resurrection is what saves us. We’re saved by the life of Christ. I came that you might have life. I am the resurrection and the life. He who has the Son has life. He who does not have the Son of God does not have life. The whole issue is life and death. And there’s only one way to God, and that’s through the resurrected life of Christ Jesus, and that’s a choice that we make. And again, people don’t want to accept that. They say, I don’t like your plan. The plan that I like is if I do good, I’ll get there, and if I don’t, I won’t. And therefore, I can brag on how good I am. That’s the plan I like, and God says, I don’t care. I don’t care what plan you like. This is the plan that was predestined from day one, that the just shall live by faith, period. And that plan people have been rebelling against ever since he put it into effect.
SPEAKER 05 :
I looked also at another scripture. I think it’s John 6, 44. It says, no man can come to me unless the Father draw him. I think that’s how it goes. And that word actually means drag. I forgot the name of the Greek word, but it Actually, it means drag, like drawing water from a well.
SPEAKER 02 :
Probably true. That’s how stubborn we all are. Well, you see, you take that again. It’s God’s will that none should perish and all should come to repentance, but I’ve got to drag you unto myself. So if it was God’s will that none should perish and all should come to repentance, how many people has God dragged? All of us. Not a person alive has not been dragged. It’s just that we choose not to come.
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay. All right. Well, I thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it. I appreciate your ministry.
SPEAKER 02 :
You’re welcome, Craig. God bless you, friend. God bless you. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.
SPEAKER 01 :
Until next time, walk in faith, be good to one another, and praise the Lord. Amen.
