In this episode of Family Talk, listeners are invited to examine the fascinating conversation between Gary Bauer and filmmaker Dinesh D’Souza. They delve into D’Souza’s captivating new documentary, The Dragon’s Prophecy, which provides a supernatural perspective on modern-day conflicts in the Middle East. Together, they discuss the rise of anti-Semitism across political spectrums, the persistent unrest in the Middle East, and the intriguing roles of prominent political figures, such as President Trump’s efforts toward peace.
Hello, everyone. You’re listening to Family Talk, a radio broadcasting ministry of the James Dobson Family Institute. I’m Dr. James Dobson, and thank you for joining us for this program.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, welcome to Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk. I’m Roger Marsh, and on today’s program, we’re continuing a powerful conversation that’s been resonating with listeners all across the country. Our Senior Vice President of Public Policy, Gary Bauer, recently sat down with acclaimed filmmaker and bestselling author Dinesh D’Souza on Gary’s podcast, Defending Faith, Family, and Freedom, which is available wherever you get your podcasts. It’s also available at oneplace.com and, of course, at drjamesdobson.org. The response to Gary and Dinesh’s conversation was so overwhelming, we knew we had to share it with you here on Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk. And during the next half hour, we will do just that. Now, on the last edition of Family Talk, Gary and Dinesh began discussing Dinesh D’Souza’s gripping new documentary called The Dragon’s Prophecy. It examines the October 7th attack on Israel. through the lens of biblical prophecy and current events. They explored the disturbing footage captured by Hamas themselves, the archaeological discoveries confirming scripture, and how these ancient prophecies are unfolding right before our eyes. On today’s edition of Family Talk, we’re going to pick up right where they left off last time. Gary and Dinesh will be tackling some of the most troubling questions facing believers today, including the rise of anti-Semitism, not just on the left, but increasingly among some voices on the right as well. They’ll also discuss why this conflict in the Middle East never seems to find resolution, and also how President Trump’s recent efforts for peace fit into a much larger biblical picture. So now, let’s rejoin Gary Bauer and Dinesh D’Souza on today’s edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk.
SPEAKER 01 :
Look, we have to be optimists because we know how it all ends. But short term, I’m as disturbed as you are that this poison of anti-Semitism, which mostly in recent American history has really thrived among the American left. And ironically, or maybe not so ironically, the more intellectual, quote unquote, somebody is on the American left, anti-Semitism that you would associate with skinheads or the uneducated or whatever. But to see some prominent people on the right embrace this, and there’s this – I called one of my supporters recently to thank them for a donation, and the lady of the house said, Gary, I have a question. Do you think that Israel – murdered charlie kirk and i i almost fell off my chair uh you know and of course i of course not why would you think something like that and as you know there are really disgusting but very effective videos circulating around that purport to show some sort of evidence of it it’s all a lie and of course it all serves satan who is the father of lies But if we’re going to defeat antisemitism, it’s important that we always speak out against it in our own tribe, right? The left ought to fight antisemitism on the left first, and we ought to fight it on the right second. So any reaction to that? I know you agree.
SPEAKER 02 :
I agree. And it’s forced me somewhat reluctantly to come out in a very frontal way against people whom I’ve known for a long time. I’ve spoken at a number of Candace’s events. Last year, I mean, 12 months ago, Tucker Carlson and I did a tour together of eight Australian cities. This topic never came up. But of course, to come out and call all this out has been somewhat awkward. But… I haven’t hesitated about it for a very simple reason. I think that anti-Semitism cannot be fully understood without bringing the devil into it. And I say this because I’ve actually been on some Israeli media shows talking to secular Jews, and they don’t understand anti-Semitism. They’re like, why is this happening to us? And I think it’s because the natural explanation for it is inadequate. Now, in one of my earlier books called The End of Racism, Gary, I contrast anti-Semitism and racism. I say that these two things are—they sound similar, but they’re a little different. Because in racism, I’m looking down at you. I’m proclaiming you to be, like, lesser than or inferior. That’s the nature of racism. But in anti-Semitism, you’re dealing with Jews who are one of the most successful tribes in world history— So you can’t, quote, look down at them the same way. You’re almost looking up to them with resentment, with hatred, with envy. And so I gave this natural explanation. But I think that the natural explanation, although true, is not sufficient. You have to bring in the supernatural explanation, which we go right to in the film. And the supernatural explanation really has something more like this. It is that the devil is in a perpetual war against God. The devil cannot defeat or overthrow God. And so the devil always picks on the things that God seems to care about. So in Genesis 1, 2, and 3, why does the devil pick on Adam and Eve? What did Adam and Eve do to the devil? Nothing. But the devil is like, listen, if I can ruin God’s cherished creation, it will give me revenge on God. I’ll have the last laugh on God. And the argument in this film, it’s kind of put out there for people to think about, The devil says, hey, if the Jews are the chosen people of God, then I will try to throw them out of their ancestral homeland from the river to the sea. I will take their holiest site, the site of the Solomonic Temple. I will put an Islamic victory arch on top of that, adjoined to an Al-Aqsa Mosque. So I will sit, I the devil, will sit on the holiest side of Judaism and Christianity. And not only that, I will also take on what Jonathan Cahn calls the spiritual Israelites, which is the Christians, the people engrafted onto the tree. I’m going to go after them. So this, I think, is introducing not to replace the natural explanation of anti-Semitism, but to add this supernatural dimension, which I think is necessary to give a more rounded picture.
SPEAKER 01 :
I agree, Dinesh. I was asked by a liberal rabbi many years ago that he said, you Christians think that we are the apple of God’s eye and that we’re a covenant people. Well, if all that’s true, why do all these horrible things keep happening to us throughout our history? And I suggested to him, although it’s not completely biblical, that when God has that meeting with Abram in the desert and God says to Abram, I will be your God and you will be my people. He who blesses you, I will bless. He who curses you, I will curse. That Satan was nearby and said, oh yeah, we’ll see about that. That the Jews, whether they wanted to be or not, are at the fulcrum of all that is unfolding in what will be the lot, the outcome for the human race. And it means that it’s one of the explanations for when you look at this little tiny strip of land in the middle of the Middle East, how in the world do they seem to be central to almost every major event? There’s more resolutions. passed by the United Nations about this little strip of land than any other conflict in the world. And the only answer I have is because it’s important to God, and because it’s important to God, it’s important to Satan.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, Gary, you and I know that over the past 40 years that I’ve known you, there have been so many other conflicts around the world. They have been settled or they, you know, take the India-Pakistan conflict. It simmers up, it simmers back down. This spot of land that you’ve identified, no bigger really than the state of New Jersey, is religiously contested, it’s politically contested, and it doesn’t look like that’s going to change anytime soon. So I think it is not simply a matter of sort of theological speculation. We can just empirically verify that throughout our adult lifetimes, there have been, and you know, you’ve seen this, the Nixon plan, the Carter plan, the Clinton plan. So many presidents have been cooking up solutions They haven’t, most of them, even gotten off the ground. Trump has actually made more headway than almost any of them. And yet the ultimate outcome is uncertain for the simple reason that, you know, we know what we’re dealing with here. The word Hamas in Hebrew means violence and destruction. These people are dedicated to it. They say things like, we love blood. We prefer death to life. So the idea that somehow offering these people blood You know, clean streets, nice buildings, maybe a Trump Tower, hors d’oeuvres, you know, high-tech firms. I think Trump genuinely believes what rational person would not choose prosperity over poverty, nice homes over rubble, life over death. But we have met people who actually exercise those preferences and have proven that this is what they are about.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yes, I think you’ll agree with this. I commend President Trump for doing this. I mean, he has invested an incredible amount of time and effort and political capital. It’s been really revealing to see how hard it is for his opponents on the left to even give him a tip of the hat when he makes this kind of an effort. And I pray that it works, that God can use it But – and I guess another really important thing here, Dinesh, is that we’ve had a couple of administrations, and I would say the Obama administration and the Biden administration, they were not trying to do things that were for the benefit of Israel. In fact, both administrations decided the future of the Middle East was really with Iran, and they were perfectly willing to throw Israel overboard here. In order to make this alliance with Iran. I know the president well enough. I know you do too, President Trump, to know he really is trying to help Israel. And he really wants to go down in history as somebody that bought them time and peace and a chance to prosper. And we’ll just have to wait to see how it plays out. But I know his intentions are great intentions. And I love him for that, you know, that he’s willing with all this anti-Semitism to stand with Israel now.
SPEAKER 02 :
You know, Gary, let me mention, if I made the website for the film, it is thedragonsprophecyfilm.com. So thedragons, plural, prophecyfilm.com. The movie is streaming. It’s available in DVDs. So check it out. I think you’ll be deeply moved by it. Now, interestingly, Hamas was on the verge of turning October 7th into a lasting victory. In other words, even though Israel was pulverizing them on the ground, Hamas had convinced a series of leaders around the world. Albanese in Australia, Keir Starmer in Great Britain, Macron. not to mention Mark Carney in Canada, all of them were like, now it’s time to have a two-state solution and a Palestinian. So think of how close Hamas was to winning a massive diplomatic victory. And it was only Trump who like snatched it away from them at the last minute. So quite apart from getting the hostages home, I think it was a brilliant sort of political coup by Trump to deprive Hamas of turning this evil deed, October 7th, into a political bonanza. And in fact, shifting the balance of power, essentially giving Israel, I think, the win that it needed and deserved in this war. Now, whether Hamas will peacefully dismantle, I think you and I know it’s going to be hard to believe that these guys are going to just go away. They’re more likely to sort of change their name. We’re no longer Hamas. You know, they resurrect under some new titles and some new names. There’s a lot of shenanigans yet to come. But the Bible, what I love about the Bible is it gives us such a clear-eyed view of human nature and a clear-eyed view of things. It doesn’t sugarcoat things. In fact, it doesn’t sugarcoat its own heroes, right? Abraham is a bit of a dubious character. King David, right? You know, scandalous sins of King David. The Bible gives you people the way they are, and yet I think shows that God uses people in remarkable ways. And I believe, and I think you do too, he’s using President Trump.
SPEAKER 01 :
No question about it. Well, Dinesh, as we wrap up here, again, this is a documentary, but folks don’t think boring. Some people hear documentary and they think, oh, that’s like a long book or whatever. No. From everything that I’ve seen, the reviews I’ve seen, this is edge of your seat type of filming. You talk to some really great people that I know that Friends of the James Dobson Family Institute have tremendous respect for people like Ambassador Huckabee and Prime Minister Netanyahu himself, as well as others. You know, folks, if you’re out there looking for answers to try to understand what’s going on, You’re not going to get it from the mainstream media. You’re not going to get it from your local newspaper. I’m not going to get it from the Washington Post here in Washington, D.C. But you can help understand what’s going on if you see this documentary. And again, where would they go in order to order a copy? You could show this at your church, correct? And make it something as a teaching moment to help people understand the headlines.
SPEAKER 02 :
One of the reviews said that the opening scenes of this film, which are, by the way, October 7th, are the most riveting cinematic footage since the opening of Saving Private Ryan. So this is made not as a sort of sit-down documentary. It’s fast-moving. It feels like a motion picture. It feels like a feature film. The website is thedragons, plural, thedragonsprophecyfilm.com. It’s streaming there. You can buy DVDs. And there’s a tab for church screening. So if you… can convince your pastor, or if you are a pastor, just click on that button and there’s an easy mechanism for you to show the film in your church. It’ll be very, the film takes you to some dark places, but it doesn’t like leave you there. It’s in the end, a very spiritually uplifting and edifying film. So the mood that people talked about after Charlie Kirk’s funeral of spiritual renewal, the mood that a lot of people in Israel felt when the hostages came home, this film is right in keeping, it’s right in tune with that mood.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, Dinesh, you’ve done another great job, which is the only kind of job you know how to do. Your work, both books and film, has just been outstanding. You’ve spoken a number of times at The Gathering, which is an annual event that the James Dobson Family Institute puts on, I recall, a couple of years ago. You and I were both at that venue, and it was good catching up with you then, and it’s great to see you today. Folks, go out and take a look at the documentary. I think you will definitely see the power of it, and it’s desperately needed at a time like this when there are so many lies being spread, even in the body of Christ and even among our fellow Orthodox and conservative Christians. Dinesh, again, congratulations on a fantastic job.
SPEAKER 02 :
Gary, really enjoyed it. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER 03 :
And that concludes part two of a fascinating conversation featuring Gary Bauer, our Senior Vice President of Public Policy here at the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute, and his guest Dinesh D’Souza talking about the brand new documentary, The Dragon’s Prophecy. And if you want more information about this amazing project, you can go to drjamesdobson.org forward slash family talk, and you’ll find both part one and part two of Gary’s conversation with Dinesh D’Souza, along with information about the movie, which is available video on demand and streaming, as they say. Gary, it must have been a lot of fun for you to have this conversation with Dinesh D’Souza. You guys have a long history going back to his, your days at the White House and his days as a young policy wonk, as they say, in the White House as well during Reagan’s term.
SPEAKER 01 :
What’s the old saying, Roger? Time flies when you’re having fun. I don’t know if it’s all been fun, but when I think back on those years in the Reagan administration, there were actually two graduates of Dartmouth University that knew each other and I ended up interacting with before either one of them was famous. The first one is Laura Ingram. She and Dinesh D’Souza were friends at Dartmouth. They had engaged in some, interestingly enough, demonstrations on the campus for conservative causes. And they both got in a bunch of trouble. As I recall, they were both expelled from school. There was a lot of pressure to be let back into Dartmouth. But then when that was all over, they both came to Washington, D.C., and I ended up giving Laura Ingraham her first job. And then a little bit after that, when I went to the White House, I gave Dinesh D’Souza one of his first jobs. Wow. So I don’t know. It seems like I ought to be getting some sort of royalty from both of them. I agree. Because they both have gone on for just incredibly successful lives standing for a lot of the things that we obviously care about and defend here at the James Dobson Family Institute.
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, Gary, that’s an interesting point. And it’s one that we’ve been hearing a lot over the past couple of months ever since the announcement, of course, of Dr. Dobson’s passing on August 21st. And the memorial service which was held october 4th for just family and uh you and i had the privilege of being there and you were on the lectern there as one of the speakers but it’s interesting how much we remember how dr dobson gave of this ministry so freely how many opportunities that so many different ministry leaders and organizations had whether it was starting a family research council or an alliance defending freedom or just in the spirit of saying, hey, look, Gary, you’ve got something going on at the White House and I think our listeners should know about. Doctor calls you up, you’re on the radio, and next thing you know, things are happening.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, you know, the documentary, the timing couldn’t be better. Unfortunately, the circumstances that leads one to say that means that some terrible things have happened in the Middle East. You know, when Dinesh and I were talking about what happened in that Hamas invasion of Israel, there’s some research on this. A lot of students on American university campuses don’t believe that it happened. I mean, that just boggles my mind that when you go on a campus and say, well, what about this that happened in Israel on that day? The murder of families in front of their children or in front of their parents and babies being put in microwaves and rapes of little girls and of 90-year-olds. And the response is, oh, that didn’t happen. That’s all Israeli. That’s all Jewish propaganda. Yeah. So, you know, there’s a very important exchange in the Bible where Christ is asked, well, what is truth? And he says, well, I’m the truth and the way and the life. We live in an age, as you know, Roger, where the truth is harder and harder for people to discern and get and understand. And one of the things that’s so invigorating and exciting about working with the James Dobson Family Institute is that You get the truth here. I mean, that permeates everything we do. The radio show, the public policy pages, the advice based on Dr. Dobson’s philosophy on child rearing, on strong marriages, all of it is based on eternal truths. And in an age where that’s hard to find a source, it’s a matter of great pride that we are that source today.
SPEAKER 03 :
Amen. And one of the things that we have been talking about of late is the number of friends who’ve come around us here at the James Dobson Family Institute in the wake of Dr.’s passing and said, we knew that Dr. Dobson wanted the ministry of JDFI to continue, that we would keep telling the truth about marriage and parenting and family and policy issues and doing so. But of course, it takes resources to make that happen. And we currently have a $6 million grant. Up to $6 million has been pledged by friends of the James Dobson Family Institute for listeners like you to hear a program like this conversation with Gary Bauer and Dinesh D’Souza, to watch the documentary film about it, and then say, I want to take that stand to help the next generation and the next generation to know the truth and let the truth of God set you free. This is the only organization, JDFI is the only organization that Dr. James Dobson has ordained to say, this is the organization that will carry my ministry forward, that will have voices like Gary Bauer and Dinesh D’Souza telling the truth. Speaking Biblical Principles. And when you make that tax-deductible donation in support of the JDFI today, know that every dollar you donate, up to $6 million, will be matched. It will be doubled, in effect. You can make a gift online at drjamesdobson.org. You can also give a gift over the phone if you want to call a member of our constituent care team at That number is 877-732-6825. That’s 877-732-6825. Of course, we also love to receive your cards and notes through the U.S. Postal Service, and our ministry mailing address is Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, P.O. Box 39000, Colorado Springs, Colorado, the zip code 8098. 49. And just put a mention in the notation there, you want to take advantage of helping to extend the legacy of Dr. James Dobson’s ministry by participating in this up to $6 million match. Well, Gary, I appreciate the time that you’ve taken with us today and the past couple of days with your conversation with Dinesh D’Souza. What word of encouragement do you have for the parent or grandparent who says, wow, this world is just looking crazier by the minute. And I’ll be honest with you, when I see something like this happen, it looks kind of like Revelation is starting to play out right before our eyes. What word of encouragement do you have to the battle-weary grandparent or parent who says, I want my kids and grandkids to pass along the faith? I mean, I’ll pass it on to them and they could pass it on to their kids, but I’m just a little weary that maybe that moment has passed. What encouragement do you have for them?
SPEAKER 01 :
You know, Roger, I would say to anybody that fits into that category, and I know many people out there do, be of stout heart. Fear not. We serve the creator of the entire universe. God has a plan. He has blessed this country all the way from colonial days and the American Revolution to the horror of the Civil War, through World War I and World War II, through all the turmoil today. We know how the final battle ends. He wins. Amen. But I think there’s a lot of evidence that America is going to be around a long time if God’s people fear not, boldly go into the public square and stand for faith, family, and freedom. There’s not a problem America is facing. that can be solved without the active involvement of followers of Jesus Christ. So I get overwhelmed too, but I’m excited and optimistic about the years that are ahead and the chances that we can all do and complete the things we have to so that our children and grandchildren can live lives with all the opportunity that we’ve been blessed to have ourselves.
SPEAKER 03 :
Gary Bauer, the Senior Vice President of Public Policy here at the James Dobson Family Institute, host of the Defending Faith, Family, and Freedom podcast, and a regular co-host here on Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk. Gary, thank you so much for your time and for the great programming the past couple of days with you and Dinesh D’Souza. We really appreciate your heart for the ministry here at JDFI.
SPEAKER 01 :
Thank you, Roger, and pray for the peace of Jerusalem.
SPEAKER 03 :
Amen. Amen. And from all of us here at the James Dobson Family Institute, I’m Roger Marsh. Thanks so much for listening today. Be sure to join us again next time right here for another edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, the voice you can still trust for the family you love. This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.
