Mike talks with Donna Gibbs with the American Association of Christian Counselors. Donna is a licensed professional Christian mental health counselor and the co-founder of Summit Wellness Centers. She is also an author of the book “Bounce: A 60-Day Devotional to Jump-Start Your Resililence.” The devotional reflects on Donna’s firsthand knowledge of walking through darkness and loss. She shares her personal journey in a refreshingly conversational style.
Well, hey, it’s Mike Train with Crawford Media Group. Today we’re speaking with Donna Gibbs. Donna is a member of the American Association of Christian Counselors, a group we’ve had a long relationship with, with Dr. Clinton and others. And Donna is a licensed professional Christian mental health counselor, co-founder of Summit Wealth Centers, and author of the book, that’s why we’re talking today, Bounce, a 60-day devotional to jumpstart your resilience. So, Donna, thanks for joining us.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER 02 :
You know, why are we talking about resilience? Because there’s nothing happening in people’s lives today that don’t really have much reason for resilience, or do they?
SPEAKER 01 :
You know, there’s a lot of struggle and heartache for a lot of people right now. Right. And no one likes to be stuck. No one likes to have some of the mental health symptoms. And I’ve been doing this work for nearly… And I always say it’s never too late to have resilience and you don’t have to suffer any unnecessary distress. There’s some unavoidable struggles of life. Obviously, we’re all facing those. But I think resilience is a really important conversation.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, we talked today in our staff meeting here in the Denver office, and it just seemed like each person has something going on that’s health-related, tons of health stuff. And I don’t know what that’s about, but truly the enemy’s, you know, he’s at work. And then other people that just, their struggles with maybe depression or something like that. What pointed you towards writing the book?
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, I’ve been, like I said, I’ve been in counseling for probably nearly 30 years now. And I’ve seen a lot of the everyday common cold things like anxiety and depression. I also am seeing more and more of trauma, particularly since COVID. And so, you know, as you describe the people that you’re working with and they’re all facing their individual stressors, they’re also all experiencing some universal stressors. Like during COVID, everybody experienced that, but they were also dealing with their own individual health things or relationship struggles or disappointments in life. And so that is normal. And in terms of riding balance, it’s because… I really began praying through how to continue helping people and specifically helping more than one person at a time. How can we help? You know, after COVID, so many of our mental health groups who were doing great work had long waiting lists and people really struggling and suffering. And so how can we provide a resource for those who are maybe sitting on a waiting list to Or maybe someone who is not sure that they need counseling, but they’re having some symptoms that they’ve never experienced before, and they want to better understand them. Or a resource that they can use while they’re in counseling to just get some tools to be able to better navigate the everyday struggles this side of heaven.
SPEAKER 02 :
Donna, was there intentionality in the 60 days versus a different time frame?
SPEAKER 01 :
The intentionality was let’s do bite-sized entries. When someone is struggling, it is hard to stay focused and read. It is hard to stay focused in Scripture. We want to, but it’s just difficult to even concentrate when we’re in a season of pain. And so the format for a devotional was very intentional. As well as by the end of 60 days, my thinking is, You will either be able to grab some tools and you’re feeling more regulated and you’re doing better or it’s exposing that, you know what, I really need more support and I’m going to need somebody. I’m going to need to be in the room with someone who can facilitate this process with me.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, that’s really good. It seems like 30 days might just not be enough time for a lot of people, especially, you know, getting out of that rut. You know, what about to there’s these painful seasons in our life? And what’s our typical response? And how would you address that for our lives?
SPEAKER 01 :
Um, in terms of painful seasons in our lives.
SPEAKER 02 :
When we just have that stuff where somebody’s having a health issue, like one of our staff members, and it’s just, it’s going to be a season. It’s not just going to be a couple of days.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So it’s going to be a marathon. In those situations and, you know, for loved ones around someone who is struggling, not I think sometimes we’re uncomfortable with the discomfort of other people and we want it to hurry up and be resolved. And so just being able to be present, we can’t. underestimate the importance of ministry of presence, just being with someone who’s in a painful season. Someone who’s in a painful season, they won’t necessarily remember what someone said, but they’re going to remember who was there with them, who endured with them. So when I think of what do you say to that person in a season of pain, it’s not necessarily what you say. It’s just do you run towards the pain or do you run away from it? Are you present with them or not? And so bounce is not me physically present, but hopefully it is a predictable rhythm for them of this is a place that I can come to day after day in this season of pain. And I am going to be able to explore scripture through a mental health lens. And I’m going to be basically having conversation like I would with a counselor in an office. There’s There’s points to ponder in there. There’s questions that I’m asking that are the same exact questions that I’m asking someone who I’m sitting across the room from, and they’re in that season of pain. And I’m normalizing some of the symptoms that they’re experiencing so they’re not feeling like they’re running crazy, that they’re not alone in despair. But ultimately, we don’t want them to stay stuck. We want them to experience some hope in this. You referenced the enemy. The enemy has plans to destroy and to discourage and really to disarm and defeat believers in seasons of pain. We just want to keep bringing back to the truth, using the healthy coping skills, having a rhythm. And again, that’s part of the intention of a 60-day journey, that it’s long enough to start building a rhythm.
SPEAKER 02 :
That’s really good. We’re speaking with Donna Gibbs. She’s part of AAC, the American Association of Christian Counselors, and her book’s called Bounce, a 60-day devotional to jumpstart your resilience. And Donna, people have asked me and others, what do I say? And it sounds like you’re your first advice to them would be just be there, be present. What about kind of those what might be or what might have been, you know, those really dark thoughts that we struggle with that could cause us trouble?
SPEAKER 01 :
I don’t know. Yeah, I call it the most important conversation no one ever heard because we all have this ongoing conversation in our minds. It is how we process the world around us. It is how we make decisions every day. It’s actually how you and I are even having this conversation right now. We’re having some internal dialogue about that. But when we go through a season of pain, It is very easy for that internal dialogue to get off the rails, to have a very negative bent. I saw some research, I don’t remember where it was now, but up to like 77% of the internal dialogue of the average person has a negative bent. Wow. And that is, thoughts matter, not just because there’s a chemical release in the body, but because our thoughts are impacting our emotions more. And creating a spiral of oppressive emotions that we could wear like a wardrobe. And then our behaviors, we respond based on that. And oftentimes our thoughts are negative just because we’re not telling all of the truth. We’re focusing on this trial that’s in front of us. But we’re not necessarily remembering other things that are also true. I have a buddy who teaches yoga. lie detection. And I remember him telling me one time, the best liars always tell the truth. They just don’t tell all of the truth. And that’s what happens oftentimes in our negative narratives, which I’m grateful you even asked that question. Most people would never even know to ask that question because they don’t realize just how important it is. That negative narrative, particularly when it’s just telling a part of the story, well, there’s some truth in it, but If it’s not fully true, it’s not true. So we have to go back and tell the rest of the story. We see David do that in the Psalms. Times when he was in deep distress and despair, and he would get really raw and dark. And then you could see him filling in the gaps, telling the rest of the story. These things I remember. He would go back to evidence of God’s hand, evidence of God’s character. And when we do that, then we can regulate those emotions and that shifts our responses to life. Super, super important in any season of life. I don’t care if it’s a trial of life or if it’s just the everyday living this side of heaven. Our thoughts matter and they must be taken captive. Our tendency is to be really, really passive in our thoughts. again, in any time of life. And that is going to cost us when we’re in a trial. It will create additional suffering. It’s unnecessary suffering.
SPEAKER 02 :
Same thing with anger, is it? And I’m asking, I’m not saying that. It just seems like it can be under the surface or hidden, more obvious. How do you address that?
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, so anger, I think, for the most part, this is not entirely true. There is some righteous anger that we can experience, but Most of the time, anger is a secondary emotion. It’s just the thing that is easier for us to feel, easier than feeling insecure or afraid, or easier than acknowledging that we’ve experienced something traumatic and we’re just having that immediate response to it. Anger can be one of those things that causes more pain. It can create great justice in your anger, do not sin, which reminds me that it is in our anger. That’s probably the emotion we are most likely to sin in. And it can create extra messes. It can also be fuel for justice if our season of life is because we’re dealing with something that we didn’t earn that was perhaps the result of someone else’s sinful or evil behavior.
SPEAKER 02 :
That last part’s really encouraging, right? Because sometimes we think anger, all anger is bad. Maybe not always.
SPEAKER 01 :
No, we’re created in the image of God. He gave us the capacity to experience all of these emotions. We just have to be careful to make sure they’re the check engine light that informs us and gives us data, but does not driving us.
SPEAKER 02 :
That’s so good. Well, I have one last question, Donna, and then I want you to give us info on how to get the book. The devotional bounce 60 day devotional jumpstart your resilience. So how do we do the balance of future kind of being ready if something’s going to hit us, you know, or just for life because life’s not easy. But being grounded today.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah. Yeah. And a great question because some people who might be listening, they’re not in a storm right now. They’re not in a massive trial right now. Maybe they’re coming out of one. They may go into one, but none of us are immune from it. And I think about, you know, a ball team that they practice before the game. The practice matters. The rhythms that we have when we’re in, in an okay spot in life. Our rhythms that we establish then are really important so that we navigate the storms of life with more stability. And so even for someone who is, they’re not in a traumatic situation, they have not just faced a tremendous loss, but something like bounce or using healthy coping skills to develop some muscles so that you are ready for that season of life. That is going to be wise. I think about young clients who have been through really hard things early in life and people always feel so sorry for them. And it is hard to watch a child go through something distressing. But I always know they are going to be the most resilient adults later when they face trials of life because they’ve been forced to develop the muscles at a young age.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, Donna, you’re giving us insights on how to be more resilient to jumpstart that in our life. How do we get the devotional?
SPEAKER 01 :
Sure. It’s Amazon, easy place to get it. And then you can go to aacc.net, the website for the American Association of Christian Counselors, and you can find it in their bookstore on that website as well.
SPEAKER 02 :
So good. Well, we want to borrow you for 60 days. I don’t know if your practice would allow that, but we’d love to have you just come to Colorado for 60 days. We’d be so much more healthy and resilient. So Donna Gibbs, the devotional is Bounce, a 60-day devotional to jumpstart your resilience. AACC.net or go to Amazon. Easy, two easy ways. Donna, thanks for taking the time with us.
