In this episode of ‘Call to Freedom’, Barbara Carmack and her guests delve into the power and impact of music in our daily lives and spiritual journeys. As we usher in the New Year, they emphasize the importance of making Bible reading a priority and highlight the blessings that come from giving back to God. Through engaging conversations, they explore personal stories of faith, including a thought-provoking travel experience that illustrates the profound trust we place in unseen forces, akin to our reliance on faith itself.
Welcome to Call to Freedom with Barbara Carmack. This is Jimmy Lakey, and I’m delighted that you are joining us for this half hour. You can reach Call to Freedom at Box 370367, Denver, Colorado, 80237, or by going to the website at www.freedomstreet.org. If you want to leave a message or order a Word Power Daily Reading Bible Guide or a Freedom Street Express newsletter, you can call us toll free at 1-877-917-7256 and leave your name and address, including your zip code. If you want to talk to Barbara right now, she is expecting your call. You may call that same toll-free number, 1-877-917-7256 to speak to her. And now, let’s join Barbara in the studio.
SPEAKER 03 :
On this Encore broadcast, Darren and I rejoice with you that the new year is here. There are so many things that you can prepare in your hearts to do in this very exciting year. One very important thing is to make Bible reading and study a priority in your daily walk. Also, it is important to give God the first fruits of all that you earn, the tithe, because God gives back 30, 60, and 100-fold when you give. But you have to give into the kingdom to get God’s best and his rewards. Talking about it will not do it, brothers and sisters. You must put actions to your promises. Darren and I talk about rich and godly music and letting that surround you and give you joy. Why don’t you make the joy that God gives you overflow into the lives of your friends and loved ones this year? Happy New Year. Let’s join the program. That is so cool. I love that song. And I remember Saturday at the meeting when we sang Deck the Halls and Come on, Ring Those Bells, and I had the people take their key chains out. And it was really fun. It sounded like bells. And what is so interesting… Yeah. Yeah. If I got mine out, it would. What’s so interesting is I was wondering how I could get bells if I need to go to Walgreen and buy some bells and just put them on that one bell thing on the table and have one person do it. And I was rounding a corner of the street. I was thinking about this in my mind and planning and saying now what should i do about that to get some bell sounds and i heard this jingling behind me and i looked behind in this girl had on her belt her keys and they were jingling as she walked and it was i know some of you’ll say holy spirit doesn’t tell you things like that but i really believe that he prepared my heart for this woman to be walking behind me with this jingling the moment i was thinking about the bells for the meeting and he gave me that idea a holy spirit so creative
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, I’ll tell you, you think about things like that. You know, I went back to my brother-in-law’s funeral here. In fact, I flew back Sunday and I came back Tuesday. But, you know, Kansas City was closed down. It was iced in. There was an awful lot of ice in St. Louis where I was. In fact, I went early to St. Louis just to make sure I get close to the airport. And then St. Louis couldn’t fly to Kansas City, so I said to the airline, okay, how are you going to get me home? They said, well, you’ve got two choices. You can fly through Chicago or through Dallas. Well, I’d been watching the weather, and I didn’t want to go to Chicago. I might get iced in there. Go south where it’s warm. Here’s the deal. On the way down to Dallas, it was cloud cover all the way, heavy clouds. And we were flying in the clouds all the way. And I thought to myself, I hope those pilots know what they’re doing up there. And then I thought, you know, they’re flying by instruments. They’ve got to be because you can’t see anything.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s right.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, and then as we got close to the ground, then all of a sudden you could see the ground. But I just thought, you know, that’s an example of faith. I’m sitting back here in the plane. I am believing the plane’s going to hold together. I’m believing it’s not going to crash. I’m believing they’re going to. you know, line up with the runway and get the thing on the ground and let me out. And all of that was a matter of faith, you know, and I’m having faith in somebody I’ve never met. I don’t know if they’re well-trained, highly trained, sober. I don’t know that. I didn’t meet them. I didn’t see what they look like, you know, when the.
SPEAKER 03 :
But first of all, you’re a child of the most high God. So your faith in him, even in the instance, if there had been something happen, you would have had faith that he would deliver you. Just like that guy. I remember that guy on the Canary Islands when everybody was burning up and he went through a hole in the plane and he survived.
SPEAKER 02 :
You know, by his story, people right across the aisle from him, their flesh was burning and falling off their bones. Yes. But, you know, he had an interesting story. All his life, he’d read the Bible. That’s right. He’d memorized a lot of scripture. And God lifted him up through a hole in the top of the plane, and out he went, and he was safe. Well, I thought on my way down there, I thought, you know, if this thing crashes, if I’m the only survivor, I will survive. I mean, I actually had thoughts like that. And then I think about one time we were flying into San Antonio, in fact, to go back to my son’s commissioning. And, you know, all of a sudden the flight attendants started running down the aisles and slamming their carts in their position. And then the pilot came on and says, well, we’ve had a slight problem. We’ve got to go back to Denver. They can’t fix this in San Antonio. Well, the plane lost altitude. It dropped down to about 300 feet above the ground. Yeah. Barbara said to me, I can’t die. I have two daughters.
SPEAKER 03 :
I was reading, as this was happening, exactly where I am right now. I turned to Psalm 95 to talk about songs because I do want to talk about what we talked about yesterday.
SPEAKER 02 :
But Psalm 94… If you’re with me, you won’t die.
SPEAKER 03 :
No, but more than that. Not just because I’m with you. Psalm 94, verse 19, was what I was reading at that exact moment when the plane fell down. I thought it was hundreds of feet. Maybe it wasn’t even that. But Psalm 94, 19 says, when my anxious thoughts multiply within me, thy consolations delight my soul. I was reading that exact scripture when that happened. So I knew that even though my flesh was saying, I can’t die. I have two daughters here. that my heart was being given peace by Holy Spirit because of that scripture I was reading. And that’s important, Darren. It’s so important when we’re living in this tactile world that is ruled by the enemy, Satan is the prince of the power of this air, that we are encapsulated in the peace of God that passes all understanding.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, you know, when it really gets down to it, you have to think thoughts like that. You think, well, you know, even for me to die is to be with the Lord. Instantly I’d be with the Lord. That is all bad out of here. That’s a wonderful place to go. But, you know, a lot of Christians don’t believe that. They don’t practice that. They’re just as afraid of the world.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, yesterday we had a great phone call from Colorado Springs. The lady brought up the matter of music in the churches. Now, you have a musical background. You were a music major in college and you traveled for several years as a gospel singer. So that’s really your deal.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, what I’d like to ask you today who are listening is what kind of music do you have in your church? And are you blessed by the music? And is God exalted by that music in your church? Or is it just a bunch of noise? And I’d like to have your opinion of the churches that you attend. what kind of music they have there, and if it is great music praising and honoring God, or if it is a lot of fleshly music. You know, since that lady who called yesterday brought up the subject, a lot of music today is about me and I. You know, I feel bad, Lord, and you’ve got to help me, and… Bless me, Lord. And, you know, and that’s all. I guess that’s well and good, except David was the example that we are to follow about praise and worship, Darren. And in Psalm 95, it’s a prime example of, oh, come let us sing for joy unto the Lord. Let us shout joyfully to the rock of our salvation. Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving. This is true example of praise and worship, how it should be in the church.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, I’m not assigned to this earth to attack Rick Warren, but I do have to beg to differ with him on the book that he wrote. about expand my borders and that puts the emphasis on me yes lord you’ve got to expand my borders because i have great needs and i one young man that i know well was that rick warren that wrote that book was rick warren on the jbiz yes oh really okay okay you want me to start over I really didn’t ever read that book because it was… Thousands of those books have been sold.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, millions.
SPEAKER 02 :
But I think, you know, hey, Christians, come on, wake up. We’ve got to praise the Lord and we’ve got to get out of the flesh. And it’s not that everything has to be around me. And some of the songs that I’ve heard, Barbara, were by a crossover Christian artist. In other words, they started out and they got their start in Christian music and then they suddenly became secular.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 02 :
And sometimes they’re singing a song about, oh, he is so wonderful. I don’t know whether they’re talking about an earthbound lover or about Jesus. And I think sometimes it’s intentionally there to deceive you so that it will fit in either market. Either market, yes. Either Christian market or in a secular market. And I say, now, wait a minute. What’s the matter of saying Jesus?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, a lot of times it just comes down to money, Darren. Pure and simple. It’s money. It’s making a profit. And a lot of this music, contemporary music, is very selfish. It doesn’t edify and exalt God. But I believe yesterday the caller was saying that the contents of the song was not what she was so concerned about, but the presentation, how they presented the song at these churches. There have been meaningless songs written through the years. All the old songs were not anointed. You think of Life’s Railway to Heaven.
SPEAKER 02 :
That’s one of my dad’s favorites. Life is like a mountain railroad.
SPEAKER 03 :
And come home, come home, it’s supper time. The shadows lengthen fast. You know what I mean? And, you know, even precious memories. Precious memories, how they linger, how they ever flood my soul. Now, what does that have to do with exalting God, Darren?
SPEAKER 02 :
People cry. No, but you know what I say? Now, I’m going to pick on one specifically. On Summerall’s network, they have, and I think it’s probably Summerall’s grandsons or great-grandsons that are doing this, but they have what’s called Studio B. Now, I’ve listened to that, and here are the guys. They’ve got ragtag clothes on, just like the world. And I would say this to you. If you turned the sound off, would you know whether that was a worldly rock band, or would you know whether it was a Christian band?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, you don’t even have to turn the sound off.
SPEAKER 02 :
some of the songs they’re playing are you just look at the visuals say you know what have we got here these guys have holes in their knees they’ve got the baggy pants down and they they’re they look like the world is my point i’m saying why do we have well some people say well you’ve got to look like the world to attract the world now wait a minute where’s the power of the gospel here And I don’t think that we have to look like the world and sound like the world to attract the world. The world’s trying to escape the world. They’re trying to say, give me a better option. We’ve got a better option.
SPEAKER 03 :
So why is Christian music being attacked? Why does the devil really enjoy coming in and messing up Christian music? And we were talking about that today before we came to the studio. And in Isaiah 14, it talks about Lucifer attacking. and how Lucifer was the bright star of the morning, son of the dawn. He woke up everyone with praise and worship. He was the pomp and the music. Music was in him. He was the worship leader in heaven. So why, when he fell, when God says, I brought you down to hell, maggots are spread out as your bed, how you have fallen, O star of the morning, because of pride in his heart. Well, certainly he would attack the music, first of all. Music opens the heart to the word of God being preached. So why shouldn’t he attack the music?
SPEAKER 02 :
Or whatever message you have. It opens your heart.
SPEAKER 03 :
Absolutely. Listen to some of these songs that have been… Oh, okay.
SPEAKER 02 :
We’ve got a live one here. Let’s take it. Hello, Judith.
SPEAKER 04 :
Hello.
SPEAKER 02 :
How are you doing?
SPEAKER 04 :
Good.
SPEAKER 02 :
What can we do for you?
SPEAKER 04 :
Just want to comment on church music.
SPEAKER 02 :
All right. Go for it. I…
SPEAKER 04 :
I dislike the repetition of some of the praise music that just, you say the same thing over and over again, and then you get a verse sung, and then they start all over and sing the whole, I feel like I’m retarded. I have to hear it over and over again.
SPEAKER 03 :
Especially if it is not exalting God. There are songs that you can exalt God and you can do it like Jehoshaphat did, singing praises to God for his mercy endureth forever. And you can do that over and over again. But there are some songs, I agree with you, there’s no redemptive value in them.
SPEAKER 02 :
Wait a minute. Do you feel retarded when you go or when you go home?
SPEAKER 04 :
I don’t care for all the repetition. But I love the hymnals. I mean, the hymnals, some of the hymns are sermons in themselves. Yes. And they’re very uplifting.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, thank you. I was raised with a hymnal. And when I got to college music course, they used the word hymnody. And I realized that a lot of the hymns taught me my theology.
SPEAKER 03 :
Exactly.
SPEAKER 02 :
They do. You know what I’m talking about, don’t you?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, they do. Well, thank you for your comments. I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER 02 :
What else do you have to say about the new music?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, I wouldn’t go to a church that played it.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. So you go to a church where the music is from the hymnal?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, some hymns, and then there are some praise music. Okay. And we do have a guitar player and so forth. But I have a comment on praise teams, too. I mean, they’re like cheerleaders at a football game sometimes.
SPEAKER 03 :
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 04 :
And is it ego or is it praise?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. If you do that at home, you know, like you do on the stage, then I would call that, you know, glorifying God.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, I think what it is is it’s called the look at me praise team.
SPEAKER 03 :
I do, too.
SPEAKER 02 :
Watch me. Watch me.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER 04 :
I mean, I would prefer a choir.
SPEAKER 03 :
Uh-huh. And some churches still do have their choirs, which is good. Yes. Yes. Well, thank you.
SPEAKER 02 :
Thank you so much. Well, do you take earplugs to your church?
SPEAKER 03 :
No, I don’t need them. She enjoys her church. Okay.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, thank you, Judith. All right, Judith. God bless you. Are you on our mailing list?
SPEAKER 04 :
I don’t know. I get one of your mailings now and then.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay. Well, then you’re on our mailing list. Okay. Perfect. All right, Judith. God bless you. Thank you. Bye-bye.
SPEAKER 03 :
Bye. Well, you know, even in our hymnals, we have songs that aren’t anointed. I mean, I was raised with hymnals, and there were songs that were not anointed. But let me tell you, there are some songs nowadays that really glorify God. And remember that song in the 80s, El Shaddai, El Shaddai, El Yonda. Adonai age to age. He’s still the same now by the power of his name. Oh, what a glorious song contemporary to God be the glory under crouch to God be the glory. I will bless the old Lord with a song of Thanksgiving. I will bless the old Lord Jesus. We crown you with praise. Lanny Wolf. You’re more wonderful. The words can even say, Lanny Wolfe, be exalted, O Lord, above the heavens. Composers like Lenny LeBlanc, Michael W. Smith, Israel Houghton, Ron Canole. There are songs like There Is None Like You. I have a song in front of me, one of the favorites of the last five years. above all powers above all kings above all nature and all created things above all wisdom and all the ways of man you were here before the world began above all kingdoms above all thrones above all wonders the world has ever known Above all wealth and treasures of the earth. There’s no way to measure what you’re worth. Crucified. Oh, I love this song. I can’t turn the page. Crucified, laid behind the stone. You live to die, rejected and alone. Like a rose trampled on the ground. You took the fall and thought of me above all. Now, that’s a description of Jesus that Lenny LeBlanc wrote, and it became a favorite of the church.
SPEAKER 02 :
Now, who wrote that one you quoted a while ago, There’s None Like You?
SPEAKER 03 :
Lenny LeBlanc. There is none, there is none like you.
SPEAKER 02 :
Oh, that is the one I’m thinking about. I’m thinking about the black guy that wrote that one song that, well, anyway.
SPEAKER 03 :
And then there are songs like, God is good all the time. I love those kind of songs. Don Moen. And then Chris Tomlin has come up recently. He’s a composer that has just impressed the church world with his songs. And we’ve sung several of them in our meetings recently. But David started it all, Darren, with, you know, like Psalm 34. Listen to this. These are the kind of songs we want to sing.
SPEAKER 02 :
You know, I find it very interesting. I’m watching you here in the studio. You start reading that and you throw your hands up in the air. You can’t help it. I mean, it’s automatic. There’s something in your spirit that just wants to raise your hands and praise the Lord.
SPEAKER 03 :
Now, what concerns me is that what started this whole thing was the fact that Matthew Murray went to two different ministries and shot four people to death. And do you know what kind of music he was listening to, Darren? I mean, it was acid rock, gospel. guttural, demonic. He was listening to the Ozzy Osbourne’s. And you know, that man is the most foul-mouthed man. And there’s nothing redeeming about him. Now, what Christian parents are going to allow their children to listen to music like that rather than music like Lenny LeBlanc and Andre Crouch and Ron Canole and Israel Houghton?
SPEAKER 02 :
But, you know, I have to defend them in a sense. If you don’t know what the kid’s listening to on his headset and he’s got earphones on, you may not know. And unless you’re really an investigative parent, you may not know.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, let’s be investigative parents because I knew what my children were listening to all the time. In fact, I’d go and I’d say, well, let me listen to it. I take their headphones off. Let me listen to what you’re listening to. And I was doing that all the time. And you raise them to honor God, first of all, when they’re small. And you raise them to know that you love Jesus with all your heart, soul, and mind. And you want to please him with all your heart, soul, and mind. You don’t want to listen to the Ozzy Osbournes.
SPEAKER 02 :
You know, there’s something else you have to do, too, and I believe that you have to bring accountability. And I believe you need to say to your kids, listen, the buck stops here. Your dad or your mom is going to check you out because we don’t want you getting off the track.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s right.
SPEAKER 02 :
And so we’re drawing some boundaries here. You may not like it, but as long as you’re under my roof, you’re going to go with it because I happen to be the boss.
SPEAKER 03 :
What I really appreciated about the writings of David, almost every one of them, he starts out with praise and worship on almost every psalm, first of all. He starts out. Then he goes into his… singular situation. Like here, I was quoting Psalm 34. Oh, magnify the Lord with me and let us exalt his name together. I sought the Lord and he answered me and delivered me from all my fears. He goes on to say, now this is what condition he was in. This poor man cried and the Lord heard him. Now, when you talk about a poor man, he must have had some issues going on. And he said, he saved me out of all my troubles. And then he goes into praise again. The angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear him and rescues them. Now, what’s wrong with the Ozzy Osbourne songs and this acid rock is that, Darren, their prime subjects, their main subjects are usually about murder, about suicide, about detrimental things that happen. About sex and perversion. Yes, and society is putting them down and they’re calling them worthless. And so you listen to this kind of song over and over and over again. You talk about repetition. It gets into our children’s minds and hearts and they become those songs. And I remember Eminem, he was talking about raping and killing women. And he was a millionaire. Kids are buying his music. What’s going on? I mean, and not only kids in the secular world, but I believe a lot of Christians are listening to this junk. It’s absolute junk. And parents, you’ve got to wake up. You’ve got to wake up to what your children are listening to.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, one of the arguments I had was a lot of the teen worship leaders and so on. is that they have the same look. They say, well, we don’t look like the world. And I think about Jim Bakerson. He got all tattooed up because he says, I’ve got to just relate to these kids. You know, I don’t believe you have to go that far. I believe that you can talk the talk and the kids will be attracted. And they want to know, are you real? Not are you a real phony. Are you real? And again, I don’t believe that we have to make sure that our pants are sagging and bagging and the knees are out and all this kind of stuff.
SPEAKER 03 :
And we’ve got those huge plugs in our ears. Now that’s the trend.
SPEAKER 02 :
I don’t believe that.
SPEAKER 03 :
That is so sad because we’re going to look like some tribes. And they say, well, we’re going to go to the tribes. But what happened to these early missionaries that went to these tribes that didn’t have any of the plugs in their ears and the tattoos and the piercings? They won the people. I love what the caller said yesterday. Totally on the value of the word of God. Darren, it’s the word of God that’s going to come through.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, here, if you want to get in on this conversation, 1-866-917-7256. Maybe you don’t agree with this. Maybe you have some kids and they’ve convinced you that everything’s cool and the way they’re doing it is the way to go. And if you want to call in, you certainly can. It’s toll-free to you, 1-866-917-7256. Believe me, we’d like to hear from you.
SPEAKER 03 :
I remember the other day I was standing to get some coffee, and in front of me was a girl with dreadlocks. I didn’t want to get within two feet. And you know why?
SPEAKER 02 :
Explain to me what a dreadlock is.
SPEAKER 03 :
A dreadlock is they braid the hair and then they don’t wash it for a month or two or three. I mean, the dreadlocks are actually done by a person and you don’t have to wash it. It’s just… How nice.
SPEAKER 02 :
Did you see anything moving in there?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, I did. And that’s why I said, you know, there’s one thing about being faddish in contemporary style. It’s another thing to be dirty. And that’s exactly what the devil wants young people to be. He wants them to be the scum of the earth. That’s what the devil is, you know.
SPEAKER 02 :
They want them to be grungy.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 02 :
And dress that way and look that way and talk that way.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, because we’ll go back to Isaiah 14, how Lucifer fell because of his pride. And it says, worms are your covering and maggots are spread out as your bed beneath you. how you have fallen from heaven and when we leave jesus when we leave the things of god that happens we live with the maggots we live with the cockroaches we live in the dirt it reminds me of that article you read the other day where this woman went to a beauty shop she’s gonna have her hair washed and a tick fell out in the sink well you’d wonder now how’d that happen
SPEAKER 02 :
But, you know, we’re talking about real things here. And, folks, I believe that we need to wake up and look at some of this music and say, does this glorify God or does it glorify me?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 02 :
Is it pushing for the flesh or is it pushing the spirit? That’s right. And I believe there’s a great, great difference. I really do. I believe that with all my heart, that there’s a real difference. between glorifying myself or the worship leader or glorifying God. And you don’t have to be university educated, seminary educated to know the difference.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, it’s better if you aren’t. It’s better if you’re not. But that’s how worship music really started, with praising and adoration to God, not praising and adoration to humans. And this Bless Me, you know, we even have heard of this church in the Denver area that says, Bless… It’s 1-800-BLESS-ME. 1-800-BLESS-ME. And Darren, that just turns me cold. Yes, we know that when we serve God, we’re going to be blessed. We read that. We read about that in the Word of God. But in no way, shape, or form do we take a place of God in that.
SPEAKER 01 :
or you may leave your message at… Call to Freedom is a listener-supported radio ministry. Barbara and her power partners invite you to come on board with us and become a network of hands holding up Call to Freedom ministry. Our partners support Call to Freedom with prayer and monthly financial support. You will be blessed supernaturally. We invite you to visit Call to Freedom’s website, www.freedomstreet.org, where you can hear Barbara’s daily radio broadcast 24 hours a day or order materials. You may share your praise reports and heart cries by mailing them to Call to Freedom, Box 370-367, Denver, Colorado, 80237. Or you may email us at barbracarmack at freedomstreet.org. Until next time, remember, Jesus loves you, Barbara loves you, and take joy.
In this episode of ‘Call to Freedom’, Barbara Carmack and her guests delve into the power and impact of music in our daily lives and spiritual journeys. As we usher in the New Year, they emphasize the importance of making Bible reading a priority and highlight the blessings that come from giving back to God. Through engaging conversations, they explore personal stories of faith, including a thought-provoking travel experience that illustrates the profound trust we place in unseen forces, akin to our reliance on faith itself.
