Join Barbara Carmack and Darren on Call to Freedom for an inspirational dialogue about the intersections of faith, healing, and spiritual discernment. As we explore the biblical teachings of Matthew, the conversation highlights how God’s word can impact physical realities and discern unseen challenges. Filled with real-life examples, including Joe’s miraculous recovery and voice change, listeners are reminded of the power of God’s intervention. This session pushes boundaries by questioning traditional counseling methods and suggesting reliance on spiritual discernment through the Holy Spirit. Particular attention is given to the importance of identifying the true roots of emotional and spiritual
Welcome to Call to Freedom with Barbara Carmack. This is Jimmy Lakey, and I’m delighted that you are joining us for this half hour. You can reach Call to Freedom at Box 370367, Denver, Colorado, 80237, or by going to the website at www.freedomstreet.org. If you want to leave a message or order a Word Power Daily Reading Bible Guide or a Freedom Street Express newsletter, you can call us toll free at 1-877-917-7256 and leave your name and address, including your zip code. If you want to talk to Barbara right now, she is expecting your call. You may call that same toll-free number, 1-877-917-7256 to speak to her. And now, let’s join Barbara in the studio.
SPEAKER 02 :
On this Encore show, Darren talks about Matthew 12, 34, that whatever is in your heart determines what you say. And as Jesus teaches, I say to you that every careless or useless or idle word that you shall speak, you shall render account for in the day of judgment. For by your words, you shall be justified. And by your words, you shall be condemned. Your words will convey what’s in your heart. And that’s why Darren depended upon the voice prints of the callers to get to the roots of their problems. Holy Spirit helps to diagnose any situation in a believer’s life and he intercedes for you and tells you what the will of God is in your life. So begin to cultivate a moment by moment relationship with him. Now let’s join the program.
SPEAKER 01 :
And I’ll tell you, I love to pray for people, and Barb does too. Today is Barb’s day off, and so she’s at the house praying, and she’ll be lifting us up in prayer and supporting us from there. And we’ve had some in-call. In fact, in the last couple of days, we’ve had Joe on from Florissant, Colorado. He was on a couple of days ago, and then he called in yesterday. He told us that he was going to be traveling to California. And he called in from Hollywood, California. Now, the reason I’m mentioning this is that some people said, that’s not the same guy. Well, God had done so much in his life from Tuesday to Wednesday that his voice changed. Now, of course, we talk about voice prints here. I don’t know if any other ministry does, but we do. And I’ll go over here to the book of Matthew. And this is something that the Lord taught me several years ago. It’s just so exciting because it gives me an indication and you, if you listen, an indication that God is really doing things in people’s lives. But here’s what it says in Matthew 12, 34. And I refer to this often, but it says… And Jesus was speaking there, For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart. Now, in the beginning part of this verse, and Jesus was talking to those that were criticizing him, and the Pharisees were always after him. They were always in the bushes somewhere. But it says, You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? And you can’t. It’s impossible. So if there’s evil in your heart, it will flavor your voice print or the words that you speak. If you’re angry, for example, you could be at a meal and say, well, please pass the salt or the pepper. And that anger will flavor your voice. So some of you are wondering why other members of your family recoil from you. Maybe it’s because there’s anger or bitterness or judgment in your heart and it’s coming out on your voice. And sometimes you’ll say something like I just gave the example here past the salt or the pepper. There’s really nothing challenging in that. But if that’s in your heart, that person may react to you negatively. And then it goes on to say here, how can you being evil speak what is good for the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart? The good man out of his good treasure brings forth what is good and the evil man out of his evil treasure brings forth what is evil. And I say to you that every careless word that men shall speak, they shall render account for it in a day of judgment. For by your words you shall be justified. By your words you shall be condemned. In other words, a real person Inside of you is going to be speaking. And God is saying here, you know, if there’s idle words there, you’ll be judged for those idle words. But I’m excited to see when a God that you can’t see with your eyes steps out of the invisible or will say the supernatural or using biblical terms to say steps out of the spirit and he does something in the natural. that you can verify with your senses. Now, I like that. I don’t run my life by my senses, but it’s nice sometimes when we see a manifestation that we can see or hear or evaluate in some way. And a voice print is such an awesome thing to hear change. Now, I’ve been praying for people for inner healing, for their hearts to be healed, for their emotions to be healed, those kinds of things for a long time, almost 20 years now. And watching that voice print change is just an awesome thing to me. I have prayed for those that have been in the gay lifestyle and watched right over the radio. And all I had was their voice coming through to me, and they were hearing my voice. And God was operating because we were praying in the name of Jesus, doing what he said he would do. He would respond. And I’ve heard those voices change so dramatically. And you don’t have to be highly gifted and annoyed with a supernatural gift of discernment to hear that. I mean, you can hear it. Well, one lady said, that’s not the same guy. And she was talking about Joe that was calling in that had leukemia and also asthma, and that kind of thing. And she said, that can’t be the same guy on the second day’s broadcast. Well, it was the same guy. It’s this Joe from, now he’s in California for a couple of weeks, and I’m sure he’ll be touching base with us on a Tuesday meeting. But the profound thing to me is God reaches down, does what he says he will do, brings healing in the heart. Now, you see, in that fellow’s case, in Joe’s case, he was lifting hopelessness, probably depression, confusion, off of his heart, out of his life. So why wouldn’t his voice change? I mean, you know, when any of us get clobbered and beat up and put down, that kind of thing, it shows up in our voice. In fact, you can answer the phone if you’ve got a good friend calling and knows you well. They’d say right away, what’s the matter with you? What’s going on? Are you okay? Well, that’s because they’re hearing it in the voice. So I’m just here to tell you, when God changes your heart, your voice print will change. And I’d like to say this to many of you pastors that are listening and people that work in church work. If you will realize that and recognize that, that when God changes a life, the voice is going to change. And then if you ask God, does your voice or does the look in your eyes reflect Jesus? And you will find that God will minister to you at that level of who you are and where you are in your life. And it’s a great indicator, for me anyway, of how people are doing in the inner man of the heart, as the New Testament says. So I would say this, and I would encourage you to ask God to teach you about voice prints. Because it really does reveal the character of a person. And many of you are struggling in a situation to help people. For example, I was raised in a preacher’s home. I don’t talk much about being a preacher’s kid, but I was one of those. And I guess I lived up to the whole reputation that I was an honor kid growing up. But I saw a lot of people come to my dad for counseling. And my dad didn’t operate in the gifts of the Spirit. He never did accept the fullness of the Holy Spirit. So he was running basically shortchanged of what was available in the Bible. But here’s what I’m saying to you pastors and you people that work with individuals that call you for help. I believe with all my heart that you could hear them on the phone when they call and say, Pastor, I need help. I need to see you. You ought to be able to discern in that voiceprint, I believe, right away and be on the right track when they arrive at your office or at your church or wherever they meet you. You ought to already have an indication of what you’re up against. You ought to be asking God, I believe, Holy Spirit, what’s in this voice? What’s in this heart? And I believe God can tell you. So you don’t have to fly blind in these situations and guess and practice religion, practice helping people. We don’t need to be like the medical and the psychiatric community where we’re in practice. We really should be, if we’re representing the Most High God, saying, God, what can I do to help this person that’s hurting? And I don’t think that we need to have 16 weeks of sessions to figure out what’s wrong with somebody. You’re running around with the wrong God if you do, or you’re certainly using the wrong methods in my opinion. You say, Darren, you sound like some kind of a rebel. Well, I’ll tell you why I feel that way and why I feel so strong about that. People’s lives are at stake. I mean, these are life and death issues. These are families on the line, businesses, careers, investments on the line. And I believe if we say we represent God, we ought to also be able to say, yeah, I can go to God and we can get some answers here. Well, why not? You know, Barb and I talk about it in the area of healing all the time, but why not in all of the areas? You know, why can’t we say, well, I’ll ask Holy Spirit, I’ll ask Jesus, who has made unto me wisdom, what’s going on here, and I know He will answer us and He will help us. Now, what’s wrong with that? That sounds pretty simple to me. I often put it as a comparison in the world of mechanics. Barb and I just parked a car with 227,000 miles, but I took it to a mechanic when it had problems that I knew was a true diagnostician. I mean, he could look at that car, and he would open the hood, and he would diagnose the problem, and he would fix it at the lowest possible cost. And I didn’t have to keep going back there and saying, hey, would you fix this thing again? Now, there are shade tree mechanics out there. And all of you who have run into those at one time or another would say, well, you know, I think it’s a starter. So you replace the starter. And no, I think it’s something else. You know, well, no, it’s a battery. So you replace the battery. And the thing still doesn’t run. Well, it must be the carburetor. And, you know, before you know it, you’ve got $300 or $400 or $500 or more in that vehicle, and it still doesn’t run right. In other words, they were trying to diagnose by changing parts and pieces. They were not mechanics at all. They were replacement artists. Often we run our lives in the world of religion and faith the same way. Now, folks, I’ll put it right to you. If you’re going to a church where that’s going on, what you have running that church, is not a shepherd but probably a hireling someone that’s there for the for the salary and the benefits and the position and and whatever and that’s serious that’s really serious though i’d like to see you get into a church where people love you and care for you from a spiritual perspective i mean doing it god’s way you know jesus asked people that came to him what do you want me to do for you and he went right after the root cause of the thing if it was a spirit he cast it out It was unbelief. He called it what it was. If it was a lack of faith or little faith or no faith, he said what it was, even if it was the people closest to him, like his disciples. See, he knew. Now, I believe that we can operate in some of those same gifts that Jesus had because that same anointing that was on Jesus can be on us. Now, what’s wrong with that? Not much, folks. I’ll tell you, not much. So here’s what I’m saying. If we hold ourselves out to be reverend, pastor, whatever our title is, a teacher, evangelist, a prophet, and so on, we ought to be able to also hear the voice of God and assure those that come to us, we can find an answer for your situation. And we’re going to bow our heads right now and ask Holy Spirit to tell us. Because in 1 Corinthians 1.30, it says these words. Jesus has made unto us wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, redemption. At the end of the next chapter, 1 Corinthians 2.16, it says that we have the mind of Christ. That should tell us that we’re not out there flipping coins, drawing straws. In other words, going by the odds, trying to figure out what’s going on. Now, I’ll tell you this. In my less mature days as a Christian, I did like so many of you are doing. I was flipping coins. You know, I take a quarter and say, well, Lord, if you want me to go this way, give me two out of three. I’m going to flip this coin. It comes down here. And, you know, you catch it in your hand, you flip it over and put it on the back of your other hand. You say, now, if it’s heads two out of three, I’ll know you want me to do this. Well, if I got an answer that I didn’t want, then I’d say, I’ll tell you what, Lord, let’s go for five out of seven. And so I’d flip the coin again. Now, another little thing, and I’m just being real open and honest with you here today since Barbara isn’t here to knock it off. So, Barbara, if you’re listening at home, you should have been here if you don’t like what you’re hearing. I would say, all right, Lord, I’m going to put this piece of paper on top of the dresser here. Now, you can do anything, and would you just turn this over during the night while I’m sleeping? If I get up in the morning and it’s turned over, I’ll know that… Well, let me tell you, that’s not the way to do it, folks. That is not the way to do it. I believe that you can learn to know God so well, and He is inside of you. He temples inside of you. When you know Jesus and you’re born again, His address is your address because He lives inside of you. We don’t have to do as they did in the Old Testament, go to a certain place every year to be in the presence of God. He can be with you when you’re born again. He comes into your heart and He takes up residence inside of you. So your address is His address. In other words, you can have a real intimate relationship with God without ever leaving your house or your office or your apartment or your mobile home or wherever you’re residing. Jesus resides there also. And you can ask him, and he can begin to direct your life. Now, you’re not going to learn to do this overnight. And this matter of Christianity is not easy when you become a Christian. I mean, the fight really begins. And he tells you that. You’re going to have much persecution. But he also tells you there’s going to be great victory. Well, I like that. And I like to see people win. So I believe that you can develop a relationship with God where you can ask Him questions. Now, I’ve developed a relationship with Him to just say, God, I’m not that smart. Just tell me yes or no. And I can pray, and most of the time, I can get it accurately. And if I’m insecure, I’ll ask again. And I’ll ask questions that I have known answers to, like, is Jesus Lord? And I will listen in my spirit until I know that I’ve heard… uh… an answer independent of known knowledge In other words, I know that Jesus is Lord. I know that intellectually, and I know that in my heart. But it’s also good when I have that confirmed just to know that this process is working. Now, I didn’t learn to do that in a couple of days or a couple of weeks. You know, it took some time. But I just treasure that relationship with God where I can say, Holy Spirit, what’s going on here? Now, particularly when we have people come with life and death issues. And I say, God, this person is crying out for help. We had a call yesterday, a woman just crying out for help in long-term counseling. Now, I got a little problem right there. If they don’t go for deliverance, if we’re working with some things that, hey, you can talk to the head all you want to, but if it’s a problem with the spirit, you better deal with it in the spirit. And many times these counseling things go round and round with psychological counseling issues, but they never get down to the bottom line and say, what we got here is a problem with a spirit problem. Now, the reason you need to hear the voice of God is to say in these serious situations, what is going on here? Give me a truth report, Holy Spirit. What am I up against here? What am I dealing with? Now, why chase the symptoms? And let me give you this example. I’m here in the studio. I’m looking out the window toward the mountains, but there’s a tree about a half a block away. There are probably thousands, tens of thousands of leaves on that tree. Now, the example here is that symptoms are much like the leaves on that tree. But under the ground, under the ground, and I can’t see under the ground, but under the ground there are fewer roots than there are symptoms, many times fewer. Well, if I get down to the root cause of this person’s situation… Why couldn’t I pray accurately and say, if it’s a spirit of infirmity, if it’s a spirit of perversion, if it’s a gambling spirit, if it’s a lying spirit, if it’s a spirit of jealousy. I mean, sometimes you stand and look at that person and you can’t tell by looking at them on the outside what’s going on. And yet the guy is saying to you, I’ve got serious problems. Well, if Holy Spirit could just tell us, wouldn’t that be nice? And in John 16, verse 13, Jesus is saying, I’m going to send you the Holy Spirit. He’ll lead you into all truth and tell you of things to come. Well, that’s good enough for me. So if Holy Spirit has been sent to me, then I can ask Holy Spirit, what is going on? Now, I believe the spirit world, it’s not a matter of invading someone’s privacy. I believe it’s like, you know, I’m looking across the street here and I’m seeing a truck backing into a building. It’s a red truck and it’s a white trailer. Well, you can say, well, that’s public knowledge. Yes, it is. But I believe also in the spirit world, these things are available for us if we ask the Lord, and he will tell us. I really, really believe that. And then we don’t have to spend a horrendous amount of time chasing symptoms many times with drugs, with wrong prescriptions, and while people’s lives are just absolutely being brought to rack and ruined by the devil himself. So that’s kind of the approach we take around here, and I’m pushing you here, C, to say, God, is there more? Is there more? Could I become more knowledgeable? Could I learn how to do this? Now, six, at least six times in scripture, he says, I’m no respecter of persons. You know, I love this person more than I love that person. Now, I know there are some people that are highly gifted in certain areas. You know, they’re called to, for example, pray for healing. And they’ve been given a gift of healing to pray for that. And I know that. But I tell you, we can’t cop out and say, well, man, I didn’t get the breaks. I believe we can have Holy Spirit in our lives. We can have our inner man baptized in the Spirit as well as the outer man baptized in water. And also when you get that Holy Spirit baptism, I mean, he clothes you, you know, in righteousness. And so your outer clothing, your inner clothing, I believe, come from Holy Spirit. And then we’ve got a fighting chance. But folks, I’ll tell you, I grew up watching pastors just make, I mean, life was very miserable for them because they were trying to do it through reason. We’ve got to get beyond that. We have to trust those things that are available to us. One of those, and I don’t mean to be demeaning here when I call Holy Spirit a thing, but The person of Holy Spirit can really help us. And I just plead with you pastors that are listening, there’s more for you. There is more for you. And you can be, I believe this, you can step into a dimension of confidence with your people so that you can say, Sister Jones is coming over here with a big problem. I don’t know what in the world is going on, but I have this confidence of when I ask Holy Spirit and I trust Holy Spirit and I trust the name and blood of Jesus and the word of God that we will have an answer and we can pray effective prayer for her situation or for his situation. It could be Mr. Jones for his situation. I hope you’re hearing what we’re saying. Barb and I really try to approach it that way. Many times we don’t have the foggiest notion of what’s going on. But when we trust the Lord and say, God, you’re going to have to help us here. I mean, I don’t know what’s going on. And what this person’s told me, I can’t figure it out. It won’t figure. It won’t reason. So help me. And when we pray, he will help us. Now, in Romans 8, 26, and we like to go to the word of God. Always base what we’re doing on the Word. If we go to Romans 8.26, here’s a wonderful chapter. In fact, I love the whole eighth chapter of Romans. But Romans 8.26 says this. Now, let’s assume that we have a person coming and saying, I really, really need help. I really, really need to have a breakthrough here. God has got to touch my life. And you can see and hear in their voice that they’re in great distress, and they obviously have, and they’re convinced they have a need. And probably in talking to them, you’d be convinced they have a need. Well, here in Romans 8, 26, here’s what it says. And the same way, the Spirit also helps our weaknesses. Now, if you’re dealing with this situation in the flesh, you’re certainly going to be weak. Hopefully, you’ll admit that weakness and go to the Word. And in the same way, the Spirit also helps our weaknesses. For we do know how to pray as we should. But the Spirit Himself intercedes with us, or for us, rather, with groanings too deep for words. Now, the Spirit, capital S here, talking about Holy Spirit. But the Holy Spirit intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And He searches the hearts and knows what the mind of the Spirit is again. because he intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. Now, I’ll tell you, the will of God is not for you to be suffering in confusion, in delirium, in depression, in oppression, in disease and sickness and pain. That is not God’s will for you. But Holy Spirit can lead you to the answer. He can lead you to the answer. And let me tell you, when you pray, as I say, right on the money, you’re not praying a miss. You’re not praying shotgun prayers of those chicken prayers and say, oh, God, you know, I hope you’ll take care of this if it be thy will. Well, his will. Let me say this. Another term for will. In other words, we say, well, there’s a will that someone has died and they’ve they’ve left a will. Well, Jesus died, left a will. And actually, there’s an old will, the old covenant, and the new covenant. There’s an old contract, all Old Testament. There’s a new contract. Well, we can get in the contract and find out what it says. And it’s an enforceable contract. Well, that’s good news. Now, see, if you’ve been in business and you’ve got an enforceable contract, you just have it made. You can enforce that in a court. And if it’s a strong contract, in most cases, the other party will not resist because they know they’re locked in to a contract that they’ve agreed to. They’ve signed maybe in front of a judge or in front of a notary or in front of witnesses. And they know that they have no choice. They have to. They have to do what the contract says. Well, it’s the same way here. See, once you know that God doesn’t lie, he’s going to tell you the truth every time. He is bound to keep his word. And then when you pray and Holy Spirit puts you on the right track, see, and you shouldn’t be praying one way if God’s working in another way. Now, but don’t cop out and say, well, I don’t know what his will is, so I’ll just say, well, whatever’s your will. You can’t go on forever with a consent of ignorance. Now, if you’re a brand-new Christian, I would suggest this. Get into the Gospel of John, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, the fourth book in the New Testament, and begin to read and learn the character of God. Read the book of Matthew. You’ll see Jesus, well, I mean, he was a miracle worker. He was out there just blowing and going, as we’d say today. He was going from village to village. People run up to him, you know, my daughter’s died. My servant has died. He’s sick. You know, Jesus said, well, I’ll come over and heal your servant. And the centurion said, man, I’m not even worthy for you to come to my house. Just speak the word. And here was a centurion who didn’t really know Jesus, but he’d heard about him. He heard about his authority, and the centurion said to Jesus, Look, when I give the word, my soldiers, the men of lesser rank, go and do what I tell them to do. If you’ll just speak the word, it’ll be taken care of. And Jesus said, Wow, I haven’t found this kind of faith in all of Israel. You see, Jesus just was out there just doing it as a lifestyle, which we also need to do as a lifestyle. If you can hear the voice of God, it’ll work a lot better for you. If you say, what am I up against here? You know, we have people coming all the time because that’s what we’re called to do. We’re called to be there to help people. So we have them calling. We have them coming to meetings. We have them writing letters. We have them sending a message by a third party and saying what’s going on here. Now, if we’re going to respond, I believe, intelligently and responsibly in the spirit, we have to be able to say, God, what am I up against here? Lord, they’re asking me to pray for this, but is that the real problem or is there something else motivating this? And I give you this example all the time, and it’s a dandy, but when they say, I’ve got a skin rash here, would you pray for it? Say, immediately, immediately, because the Lord’s training. Go into the Spirit and ask, is this skin rash here because of something they ate? Is it from poison ivy, something they touched? Or is it something that came internally? Is it because, like me, they eat too much Mexican food sometimes and it was too hot and too spicy and those things are beginning to detoxify and come through the skin? Or is it a spirit? Is it a spirit of fear that’s got them absolutely about ready to scratch every hair off of their head and they’ve got psoriasis and on and on? And did that come from a spirit of fear or are they using the wrong shampoo? The Holy Spirit knows. See, God knows everything. He is all knowing. He’s every place and he’s all powerful. Well, that’s good news for me. So I’m not flying blind when I go to help people. And I just can’t give them, you know, some kind of a rash and phony baloney and put them off. And, you know, I can’t do that. Down inside, I would feel awful. So we got a quick phone call right here at the end of the broadcast. Let’s talk to Ann. Hello, Ann.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, Darren.
SPEAKER 01 :
How are you doing?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, a real quick request.
SPEAKER 01 :
Okay, it’s got to be quick. I only got a minute and a half here.
SPEAKER 03 :
All right. A little child, about seven or eight months old, and she has this tracheotomy thing down her throat.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 03 :
It’s in there, and it’s the only way that she can breathe. And they’re going in, I think, next Tuesday or so to see if they can possibly take that out.
SPEAKER 01 :
Okay, are folks Christians?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, they are. Okay. But I wouldn’t exactly say born again.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, then they’re not Christians.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, right.
SPEAKER 01 :
So we’d say they’re good people, but they’re not Christians.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right, right.
SPEAKER 01 :
Okay, all right.
SPEAKER 03 :
But, you know, they paid about $30,000 or $40,000 to bring that child into the world, and she was real great for about three months. And now she has all of this.
SPEAKER 01 :
How old is the baby?
SPEAKER 03 :
She’s about eight months now. But she has to live with this tracheotomy thing, and they’re going in to see.
SPEAKER 01 :
All right. Here’s what I want you to do. I don’t have time to really discern this as much as I’d like to. Could you call me tomorrow, and Barbara will be with me?
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 01 :
And in the meantime, what’s the baby’s name?
SPEAKER 03 :
Alexandria.
SPEAKER 01 :
All right. Father God, I pray right now that you will show us how to pray for Alexandria. Praise you. And Lord, if you put us with Ann tomorrow on the phone, we’ll be praying. But Lord, I know you can touch this little baby, and maybe you’re going to use this situation here to bring the mom and dad to Jesus. Praise you. Father God, I don’t believe you sent this, but you’re going to use it since it’s here. So we come against the spirit of death and disorder and wrong diagnosis in Jesus’ name. And I thank you for doing that. And God bless Ann for her phone call today, Lauren. Thank you. Amen. Thank you. Hey, you call me tomorrow, will you?
SPEAKER 03 :
Thank you, Darren.
SPEAKER 01 :
I sure will. And the baby’s name is Alexandria? Alexandria. We’ll be praying. Thanks. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.
SPEAKER 1 :
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SPEAKER 05 :
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