The journey continues with a conversation featuring Dr. Greg Jantz on dealing with toxic relationships and setting healthy boundaries. Jantz shares profound insights into recognizing toxic behavior and emphasizes the importance of maintaining emotional boundaries. Whether it’s navigating a challenging relationship or understanding personal gifts, this episode provides practical advice and daily action prompts to live a life more aligned with one’s values.
welcome to the good news with angie austin now with the good news here’s angie
SPEAKER 04 :
Hello there, friend. Angie Austin here with the good news. Please welcome back author Michelle Howe. We’re speaking about her book, Serving as Jesus Served, Practical Ways to Love Others. Welcome back, Michelle.
SPEAKER 05 :
Oh, it’s so nice to be here. I’m looking forward to our chat.
SPEAKER 04 :
OK, so you’re up there in Michigan and you’re, you know, retirement age with a big farm and a few animals looking to get some chickens and maybe some cows. And so really enjoying your life up there and then still writing. Is that right?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, we’re in our 60s now. We have our six grandchildren. We have our four adult children, too. And yeah, it’s just a time of transition for us, which I think people usually think transition doesn’t happen when you get older, but it does. And we are excited about what the Lord has for us in these coming years. Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right, let’s talk about, you know, loves. We’re talking about serving as Jesus serves, practical ways to love others. You know, in the world that we’re in now, a lot of people are like, you know, love you, or, you know, oh, I loved it. You know, people throw that word around. And how do you define it as a Christian in your book?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, it’s quite different than the non-believing world defines love. Just as you just described, we throw that term around so loosely, but believers are have the example that Christ gave us. And he was, by his every word, every action, he showed us what it meant to be selfless and to be loving others unconditionally, even their enemies. So a Christian has to view love in that general sense quite differently than the world does because Jesus says we need to die to ourself daily. We need to love our neighbor as ourself. And when we make those Those little quickie sentences and promises, we have to really search our hearts and say, are we willing to love our neighbor as ourselves? And that means if he has a need or she has a need, I’m going to be self-sacrificial and put aside maybe my wants, my desires, my plans for today in order to serve these other people. that God has brought to my attention. So this kind of love is the robust love that a Christian really should evidence and live out in front of a dying world.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, and you talk about being a true servant means offering kindness and mercy to those who don’t deserve it, who may not be kind to you. So how do we learn this kindness? I see with my teenagers, sometimes people not being so nice to them. And one of my kids is very good at being able to turn the other cheek and just kind of dismiss it and not dwell on it and not be angry or mean to them.
SPEAKER 05 :
And that’s hard. I mean, I think it’s hard for all of us, but I’m reminded of the passage in Colossians where they say, therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with what? Compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience. Bear with each other and forgive one another. If any of you have a grievance against someone, forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues, you know, put on love. which binds it all together in perfect unity. And that is such a lofty goal because, as you just said, when people are unkind to us or unkind to our children or our friends or, you know, we just witness incivility just out in the public, our first human response is not to bless them. It’s to stop them in their tracks and say, oh, don’t do that. You’re being unkind. You’re out of line. Stop, stop, stop. And maybe they would or they wouldn’t, but the whole thing is where is our heart against? And all throughout this book, I mean, I’m just sharing Jesus’ heart over and over. And he says, overcome evil with good, bless those who persecute you, and pray for those who despitefully use you. And what a gift it is when we have that in our mind’s eye, when we’re being spoken to in a way that perhaps we don’t like, or if someone neglects us, and they don’t mean to, but still it hurts. Or if we have a family member that we have a real struggle with, you know, seeing eye to eye on big issues, These verses need to be in the forefront of our heart and our mind so that we respond with a servant-minded attitude so that we really do represent Jesus in these hard and difficult situations.
SPEAKER 04 :
You know, you’re talking about difficult situations and communicating with people and showing that love. But most of us don’t like the confrontation or criticism or having to criticize others, even if maybe it’s for their own good. So do you have any guidelines or tips for speaking truth and love? Because that’s not always easy.
SPEAKER 05 :
I think it’s almost always hard, in fact, because, you know, even as a person who’s been married for almost 40 years now, I still don’t like it when my husband points out my sinful attitudes or my irritability or my impatience. I do not like it. It makes me bristle. But then I have to stop myself and say, okay, be teachable, be humble. There’s truth in what he’s saying. Even if I don’t think he’s all spot on, there’s some truth to it. And there usually is. And I think we all have to realize we have blind spots, which is why we have the body of Christ. to rub shoulders with and the verse that talks about iron sharpening iron we need to know others well and they need to know us well so they see into our hearts we see into theirs and we can help expose each other’s uh fallacies or there are blind spots because again we all have them yeah but if you don’t have a spouse hopefully you have good friends who’ll speak truth into your life You don’t want friends who are only going to tell you what you want to hear. You have friends that are going to speak truth and say, okay, I understand what you’re saying. I understand why you’re upset. You really sound like you’re becoming bitter, though. And what does God’s word say about bitterness? How can I help you work through this? Those are the kind of friends we want to be, and those are the kind of friends we want to have.
SPEAKER 04 :
Absolutely. All right. We talk about our gifts a lot, our God given gifts. And I want you to explain what you mean by the principle of serving others, you know, by using our God given gifts. How do we discover these? I think a lot of people are perplexed as to what their gifts are, or maybe too humble, not realizing that they have certain gifts. You know, how do we figure out what they are if we’re still, you know, as adults lost when it comes to that?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, I agree. I think many Christians complicate this whole matter of spiritual gifts in a way that I think scripture is a lot simpler. And one of the first things I try to share with women when I speak is if you don’t know what your gifts are, you need to go to the word of God and where they’re all listed through Galatians and other areas. But one of the best things you can do is start in prayer. And say, Lord, I don’t know what my spiritual gifts are. Help me, help me. And then you just start meeting the needs of the people around you. And I tell people, if you’re good with kids, why not volunteer in the children’s ministry at your church? If you are this super extrovert, you just love people and love to talk, be a greeter at your church. You know, there’s so many opportunities for us just to jump in, get our feet wet. And you know what? Sometimes we’re going to find, not my area, but a lot of times the people around us, as we’re serving, will say, you are really good with children. You are a great teacher. You should be teaching. Or they might say, oh, you do so well with strangers and friends alike. I think you’d be great in a ministry that goes to the hospitals and the nursing homes and really ministers deeply to these people who are hurting. And I think it’s just a matter of obedience. But I say, first, pray. God will show you. It may take some time. It may take some fumble. That’s okay. And then you just jump in where the needs are. in your local body. And I think God will reveal it to you as you work out your faith. And also other people will commend you or they may move you into a different area and say, I think this is a better fit for you than this other place.
SPEAKER 04 :
We talk a lot about character, and you and I had a good conversation prior to our third interview here. We were chit-chatting quite a bit, and you’ve got the grandkids, I’ve got the kids. You talk in the book, and if you’re just joining us, Michelle, how this book is Serving as Jesus Served, Practical Ways to Love Others. We talked about kids and grandkids. And you talk in the book about home being the place where we learn to develop our character. Sometimes I feel like I’m not always the best example. My husband has a super hot temper and it takes me quite a while for my temper to go off now as I’ve gotten older, at least. But what it does, I definitely have found myself, I would say in the last month, twice apologizing for my kids for lashing out, you know, when I’m angry because I want to be a really good example for, you know, for them, to them.
SPEAKER 05 :
Mm hmm. Yeah. And I think what you just described is everybody’s home. I mean, there’s just days when you’re with the same people over and over or you’re tired or you’re sick or you’re stressed or somebody’s just getting on your nerves because they’re very different than you in your personality and how you would maybe clean the house or keep up the house or you want it quiet and they want it loud. I mean, we have to remember we are all sinners and we live with sinners. But the home is where we really can learn to grow and be refined and through the grace of God. And I’m reminded of the verse in 1 Peter where it says, all of you, and every one of us, be like-minded, sympathetic, love one another, and be compassionate and humble. Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing. And there’s our beautiful biblical blueprint for how we should treat our family members. And I think most people realize that We let our hair down at home. We do because we know our families love us. So, you know, something happens. We have a hard day. We’re really tired. Maybe we’re not feeling well, whatever. Or it can be a really tragic day. Who do we really vent to? It’s the people you’re eating dinner with, you know, or not eating dinner with. But again, this is where Jesus exposes our weaknesses or immaturities. And if we’re humble enough, we can, our children even can say to us, mom, really? And then we, Hopefully, we’re the kind of mom who says, please forgive me, because they already know we’re imperfect and we’re sinners. They see it. But when we ask for their forgiveness, we restore the relationship, we move forward, and then they know they have a mom or a dad or they have siblings who understand their own sinfulness, but yet the beauty and the grace of God when there’s forgiveness given freely and frequently in the home.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right. So again, Serving as Jesus Served, Practical Ways to Love Others. All right, Michelle, how in your book, you know, you like to engage your audience in practical exercises, really get us involved. So what do you hope that we as readers or listeners, for that matter, will take away from your book? What do you want us to learn? Give us some of the top points.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, my hope and prayer is that the readers will really dive into the book or the listeners and read just one chapter a week. Don’t go through it fast. It was written to be digested every day, each week. So one chapter a week. And then they utilize all the daily action prompts at the end of each chapter, which will help to solidify each specific serving topic for each week. And the more we step into this service each day, the more natural it becomes in our lives and we will better understand resemble and image Jesus day by day, one loving act of service at a time.
SPEAKER 04 :
You know, I was looking at some of your other titles, and I know we’ve spoken before, Caring for Your Aging Parents, Lessons in Love, Loss, and Letting Go, and Empty Nest, What’s Next? Parenting Adult Children Without Losing Your Mind and Finding Freedom and Joy in Self-Forgetfulness. Oh, that’s hilarious. Yeah.
SPEAKER 05 :
I know it’s counterintuitive, isn’t it?
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes, it is. Well, I think, you know, being a good example, you know, showing that love and reminding ourselves every day, whether it’s through our quiet time or reading the Bible or journaling, you know, to be that person that we want to be and want our children to be so that we set that good example. Any final thoughts, Michelle?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, I think if people read through this book, it’s, The title is Practical Ways to Serve and Love Others, but really it’s a heart check for all of us, because we can’t serve as Jesus served if our heart isn’t in tune with his, and we haven’t studied the word, so we really see him as our example, and he lived this principle out his entire life. There’s so much goodness and richness we can glean from Jesus’s examples. But again, our hearts have to be tender enough to be teachable and humble enough that when we’re corrected or someone keeps us accountable, that we’re okay with it. And then that’s all part of serving. It’s not just feeding somebody. It’s not just mowing their lawn. It’s how we deal with people interpersonally and interrelationally. That’s where the real tests come, I think, in serving as Jesus served.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right, Michelle, a good website for you? www.how.wordpress.com Excellent.
SPEAKER 05 :
Thank you, Brent. Thank you. Have a good day. You too.
SPEAKER 02 :
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SPEAKER 05 :
Pueblo, thanks for tuning in to Colorado’s Mighty 670 KLTT.
SPEAKER 04 :
Hello there, Angie Austin here with the good news. I’m pleased to welcome back Dr. Greg Jantz. And today we’re talking about his book, How to Deal with Toxic People. Welcome back, Dr. Jantz.
SPEAKER 03 :
Good to be with you. And yeah, everybody has a toxic person in their life.
SPEAKER 04 :
You know, I was going through your list of the different types of toxic people, and I’m sure people are combinations of them, but that’s quite a list. The pessimist, the addict, the know-it-all, the egoist, the put-down artist. It’s like, oh my gosh, that’s a long list of toxic people.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, it is, isn’t it? And, you know, if you have somebody in your life and I don’t use the carefully use the word toxic, but they are like a poison and they’re constantly hard to deal with. They are at times very manipulative. They can have a spirit of blame. And here’s what you do. You feel drained. You feel exhausted. You see them and you go, oh, no. You want to walk away. That’s what a toxic person does.
SPEAKER 04 :
You know, you’d think that on that list of toxic people that a control freak, that you could just let go of all control to be relaxing. But you’re right. Being around some of these personality types is exhausting. It really does drain you.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, it does. And I’m… I’m also concerned because if you’re at the receiving end, you can feel like a victim and you can feel powerless. You may feel like, oh, and you just want to escape. And so sometimes it can create more depression, more anxiety and anxiousness. At times, if you live with a toxic person, you just want to maybe you escape through food, maybe escape through alcohol. But you start to look, you start to look for an escape.
SPEAKER 04 :
You know, we all feel this way, but don’t really know how to put like a finger on it sometimes. Like we know we’re around somebody that’s difficult, but we love them. What exactly is the definition of a toxic person?
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. Well, a toxic… That’s great. What is a toxic person? And, you know, it’s so interesting because I did this little book. People love books of less than 100 pages or so. Okay. Because our attention spans have dropped so much. But there are many different types of toxic people. But it’s really deception… It’s interactions with people where they don’t respect your boundaries. They can be demanding. There’s a lack of mutual respect. It’s a one-sided relationship. And usually it’s a sense… You know, everybody has a bad day. We’re not talking about a bad day. We’re talking about a person that has life patterns… that are hurtful and harmful.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right, so you said boundaries. I think of an old friend that whenever I had to change plans or I couldn’t make it to some event that she wanted me to go to, she’d get so angry because she was very selfish. And sometimes I know you just have to actually get out of the relationship, like you can’t continue the relationship. Let’s talk about boundaries. They sometimes don’t have them. How do we set boundaries when we’re dealing with a toxic person?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes. So a boundary would look like not continuing to engage in a conversation. A boundary might look like excusing yourself from a conversation. A boundary could be an emotional boundary where you are really putting a shield of protection around you and you need to remind yourself, this is not about me, this is them. So there’s internal boundaries where we disallow somebody else’s toxic behavior to contaminate us and I think that takes some practice. There’s also physical boundaries where you may need not to be with this person in a physical sense and And maybe you need to have somebody with you where you never would meet a person one-on-one, but you always make sure that there’s a companion with you, for example. I like that. Some examples. Okay.
SPEAKER 04 :
I like that. And, you know, people can change. I mean, I have to say I’m a little shocked because my mother had lived with me and my family, my kids off and on for, I’d say, 20 some odd years. And she went to live with my brother for six months and then she was back with us for six months. And she’s very pessimistic. She’s very much a victim. She’s had a life where she was very abused. But she complains all the time. So when she came back, I said, Mom, look, if you want to help the kids with the laundry or with the dishes, you’re allowed to do that. But you can’t complain. Since you’ve been gone, they do all of these things. They have their own chores. So you do not need to do their laundry. And you do not need to do dishes or clean the kitchen or any of that. But if you do it, I do not want you complaining. And you know what? She didn’t complain. Six months she lived with us. This woman complained every day of my life. And she was like, I’m going to say, very pleasant to have this time. I mean, it was shocking.
SPEAKER 03 :
She’s in her 80s. Right. So, yeah. And we also have to come to the understanding that there are times where we need to just accept, you know what? This person is not me. They’re not interested in changing. They’re not going to change. And so as you look at that, you go, I have to release my expectations that they’re going to be any different.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, I did kind of think it wouldn’t be different, so I was pleasantly surprised. So that was wonderful. I guess I set up proper boundaries. Yeah, right. A couple things I want to ask you about in this whole toxic category. We talk to our kids a lot about accepting responsibility and not being finger pointers, you know, the whole one finger pointing at the other person and four pointing back at you. Is, you know, the refusal to accept responsibility or blame acceptable? Is that a toxic behavior, the I’ve never done anything wrong, it’s someone else’s fault? It’s always someone else’s fault why I’m behind in life or I didn’t make it or whatever?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes. And that’s something to look for, a person who carries a spirit of blame, a person who is carrying a criticalness that no matter what you do, you can never please them, for example. So these are important things. to look at and to understand that many times we have to emotionally separate ourselves and wear that shield of protection. If we keep expecting this person, they’re going to change, you know, or I hope they’re going to change, then we’re in a cycle at times, a cycle of emotional abuse.
SPEAKER 04 :
Mm-hmm. Definitely. Okay, so let’s talk about healthy problem solving. What does that look like?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, there is healthy problem solving. And one of the things that if a person has really got some more, we’ll call it personality disorders. They’re narcissistic. Maybe there’s addiction. Sometimes a toxic person is somebody that has an addiction in their life. And so you’re really dealing a lot with addiction. Keep that in mind. That’s why it’s so important. Be careful about anger. Healthy problem solving means I’m not going to respond out of anger. Healthy problem solving means I’m not going to attack them, not going to do the same thing. Healthy problem solving also means that I understand that… I may have to give up the need to be right. So sometimes they’re always going to have the last word. Yes, yes. I think healthy problem solving also means that we have somebody else in our life that really understands what’s going on. They’re aware of it. And they are able to tell us the truth. They are our ally. They see what’s going on. Sometimes it can be really lonely and you can isolate where it feels like nobody knows what’s really going on.
SPEAKER 04 :
I like the idea you mentioned about giving up the idea of needing to be right. I think that has really been beneficial for all of my relationships, including my marriage. Like I have no need whatsoever to be right or to claim to be right. It’s very infrequent. I’d say out of a hundred disagreements, like once I would like, really be a pit bull and and fight for something but you know that i have to you know get this you know thing my way or i’m going to stand up for this but in general i really can let things go which has definitely come with age you um my husband that’s a really important skill to learn it’s a skill yes yeah yeah i agree if we think we if we think we have to arm wrestle them down to win uh on something
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, it’s always a fight. It is. Let them have their opinion and understand there’s going to be a difference of opinion. The more we can communicate, well, cooperation, communicating cooperation. And that doesn’t mean you have to agree with everything they’re saying or agree with their position, but I can still have an attitude of cooperation.
SPEAKER 04 :
You know, my kids think that my husband is very critical because he kind of feels like, well, they know what they’ve done right. I need to focus on what they’re doing wrong. And in particular, sports or school, right? Schoolwork and sports. So I know that in your book, you include 15 ways to deal with criticism. So I know for some people, I mean, let’s be honest. I, that’s one thing I don’t particularly enjoy, especially since I was a TV news anchor, a weather woman, a radio host. Like I did a lot of things before I got married. So when my husband is critical of how I handle like a cover letter or a conversation with the boss, I feel like saying, you know, I did actually survive, get through college, work full time all through high school and college. And have a career long before I met you. Like somehow I made it without your criticism. Right. But I just, you know, but I, but I just keep my mouth shut. That’s what I’m trying to keep to teach the kids too. Like sometimes when dad’s lecturing you, you just have to keep your mouth shut and nod and you could talk to him an hour later, but do not argue with him because you will never win in an argument with your father while you’re, you know, under 18. So what, what are these 15 ways? I don’t need all 15, but ways to deal with criticism. Where do we start?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, one that always is important for us is versus just reacting and being angry and upset, we call it respond, don’t react. And I need to have an intelligent response that’s not loaded with emotion. Maybe they triggered you and, you know, I guess we call it a knee-jerk reaction, but maybe they’ve triggered you. and you just want to defend yourself or you want to fight back with them. So keep in mind, reacting usually adds fuel to the fire. So take a little pause, respond. You can still share your opinion, but if we do so out of destructive anger, we’re going to later regret it.
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, isn’t that the case? Oh, that’s so funny you say that because my husband is so great. I mean, he’s a 10 on 100 different things. But when it comes to when he gets mad at me or the kids, he’ll do it. Well, I’m not going to the such and such then. Like, I’m taking every single one of my toys and I am going home. And I laugh because I know in an hour later, he’s like, fine, I’ll go to that charity event with you. But I have to just let him have it. I have to let him take his toys, you know, and go home for an hour. And then when he calms down, then, you know, he’ll tell the kids, I’m not training you at the gym anymore. I’m done searching for colleges for you. And it’s very, you know, like he’s putting his foot down. But if I just let him have that, you know, hour of being really angry, of course, he’s still taking the kids to the gym. Of course, he’s still going with me to the such and such. You know what I mean? But I have to let him have his fit.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes. There you go. Exactly. I think the last one on my list is let things settle. Let the dust settle. And let a little time pass. That’s a hard one sometimes. But get to a place where you’re able to just understand their pattern and they’re going to respond and have a certain process. But So often we are so forceful. Let’s just Let’s just let things settle for just a little bit.
SPEAKER 04 :
I love that. I love that idea. Dr. Jantz, we’re out of time. The book is How to Deal with Toxic People, Dr. Greg Jantz. And will you give us your website? Is it still aplaceofhope.com?
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, A Place of Hope. And I have some great, free, confidential little mental health tests. And I have one that relates to this topic. So go online, take it for free, and see how you score.
SPEAKER 04 :
Excellent. Thanks, Dr. Jantz. Good to be with you. Thank you. Thank you.
SPEAKER 01 :
Thank you for listening to The Good News with Angie Austin on AM670 KLTT.
The journey continues with a conversation featuring Dr. Greg Jantz on dealing with toxic relationships and setting healthy boundaries. Jantz shares profound insights into recognizing toxic behavior and emphasizes the importance of maintaining emotional boundaries. Whether it’s navigating a challenging relationship or understanding personal gifts, this episode provides practical advice and daily action prompts to live a life more aligned with one’s values.
