Join Angie and Scott as they explore the challenges and opportunities of college admissions with Lamont Jones from U.S. News and World Report. With college costs soaring and educational decisions becoming more crucial than ever, they discuss how parents and students can leverage rankings and financial aid to make informed decisions. Lamont provides detailed insights into the rigorous process of evaluating colleges, highlighting the significance of graduation rates and career prospects for students. This episode serves as an essential guide for navigating the complex world of higher education and aligns with the broader discussion on mentorship and career planning.
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SPEAKER 03 :
Welcome to The Good News with Angie Austin. Now, with The Good News, here’s Angie.
SPEAKER 07 :
Hello there, friend. Angie Austin and Scott Montgomery. He is back. He is an author. He is a business owner. And we just, you know, find topics we find interesting that are in his area of expertise and have discussions. And welcome back to you, Scott.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, thank you, Angie. Angie Austin, I love this opportunity you give me. And to be with you on your show is so fulfilling for me. Every month we’re getting to do this. So I couldn’t be more grateful. And thank you for having me.
SPEAKER 07 :
I feel kind of like we’re fraternal twins. It’s so bizarre. It’s like we’re both happily married. We’re both about the same age. Our kids are exactly the same age. We each have three children. There’s a couple that already have their driver’s licenses. One’s getting a driver’s license. We have pets. We have rental properties. It’s like I run my own business. You run your own business. It’s just so crazy. It really is. It’s so nice. We found each other. Separated at birth. It’s just a crack up to me. I remember the first time we did an interview and you’re like, oh, me too. Yeah, I got a 16-year-old. Yeah, I got a kid starting college. It was just like hilarious. All right, so my son started an internship this summer. We’re going to talk a little bit about your intern. I have a really great relationship with an organization here called ARC, and they deal with people with cognitive deficits, developmental disabilities issues. And so down syndrome, cerebral palsy, et cetera. And when my friend started as the president and CEO about 20 years ago, when his son around the time just after his son was born, who has down syndrome, he left the big business world that you’re in. And he’d gone to Booth Business School, one of the top business schools in the country. And he said, you know what? I’m going to devote my life now to doing things that will help my son and people like him. And they went from having five ambassadors who are differently abled to over 500. And my son was working for them in a different capacity. And he met with the president and CEO and said, I’m really interested in finance. I’d love to go to your same business school for my MBA. And then he called me back. He’s like, I just wanted to shadow him for a day. And he gave me – all summer internship paid to be uh to work in finance and all the he’s gone to all their big meetings he gets to present with like the head of finance and other department heads um he gets to you know give his fee because he’s worked in the stores he’s worked as a cash register he’s a thrifter as you know so he has his own business so he had and so he knows how their like pof system works he knows you know about the pricing of other thrift stores and how they price so It’s been so cool for him, and so many of the people that I know in the organization have reached out to me like, oh, your son is great. He’s really meshed with us. And I’m like, this is a dream come true for a kid. That experience for him, and he’s hoping to do it every summer, is so invaluable. I can’t even tell you.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, no, you just did tell me, and I feel that passion, and I understand exactly what you’re saying. And it’s amazing for me to hear what you’re saying about the opportunities kids get to actually – learn leadership at an earlier age, right? So a lot of what I like to do in my passion projects and in my leadership development piece is, as you know, I wrote the book and I’ve done a companion guide, but I like to pay it forward with opportunities for people to exercise how to be better leaders, right? So today we were talking a little bit about-
SPEAKER 07 :
They’re learning how to properly present ideas, how to make those ideas come to fruition, to ask for extra responsibilities, to say, hey, Scott, I know I’m your intern, but could I head up such and such? Like my son’s had some like Excel projects that were like in the IT department where they’ve allowed him to like work alongside them and do things that really like he’s benefiting them rather than being just like this pain in the rear kid that’s shadowing you.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, that’s the thing. And that’s the thing I think where I was also we had talked a little bit like how do leaders make themselves available if they’re busy during the day? Internship is the first thing that comes to mind for me as an owner of a firm. The interns come in and I’ll actually allocate an hour of time with them. to talk about various subjects that are related to leadership and not task-oriented work like you’re talking about, right? You’re not going to be a cog in the wheel. But I say to them, it’s noted that you come in 10 minutes early. It’s noted that you tucked in your shirt and that your belt is looped in and that you look nice. It’s noted that you’re making eye contact with me. And in return, you get the opportunity to meet my CFO, meet my CHO. You get to work in these other departments. And then you have a resume build. And you are seeing how I respond to you, so you’re better at communicating when it’s not me you’re working with in the future. You’re learning the nuances.
SPEAKER 07 :
It’s so interesting that you’re saying about, you know, the shirts tucked in, that you’re shaved, that you look good. Because Bea initially told our son, you know, maybe it’s not fancy in the office, maybe a polo shirt, you know, a golf-type shirt and tacky pants, right? Yeah, that’s what I’m wearing right now. And then my son has an earring, which I’m not a fan of, but it’s a thing for the young guys now. And he took it out and one of the bigwigs there said, hey, you don’t need to take out your earrings. I know my parents said I should do that. They’re not they’re not into tattoos and earrings, which he doesn’t have any tattoos. But we wanted to address a certain way. And in this organization, he started that way. They actually told him, hey, that’s not how we operate here. Don’t worry about that. You can wear jeans and see you, you know, you know, college sweatshirt from your school. That’s fine. you know, clean hair, combed, you know, you know, shave cleanly, you know, clean shave. But, you know, the other stuff, they’ve let him be more relaxed. But you just reminded me to remind him that, hey, by the way, you might have to change your manner of dress depending on the organization.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, and the fact that the leadership told him is exactly the thing that I think is what We were going to try and talk about today, and that is how do the leaders make themselves available, right? So first of all, give the instruction. Second of all, pay attention to the new guys that might not know what’s going on. And third of all, the culture of an earring or not or a tattoo or not spelled out for these guys is such an important skill a leader of an intern can bring to that future generation. Because whereas I’m in a polo shirt and khaki pants right now, I also have a quarter sleeve tattoo that is literally showing. In my organization, that’s how we roll. If your shirt was untucked and you weren’t shaven and you looked disheveled, it only is made worse by that versus…
SPEAKER 07 :
art and style and earrings does that make sense yes and like you said the fact that it was presented um if we okay if you have an intern and he or she is coming a saggy pants you know um no belt uh flip-flops or the email and like way too much and i you know people are going to say oh you’re sexist angie but you know too much cleavage at work you know dressing in a manner that’s maybe distracting for what you’re trying to do maybe you’re in customer service and you know in people are like whoa what is that lady wearing I’m not saying that once you get established like I think of Erin Brockovich and how she worked alongside an attorney and then eventually she was taken seriously but initially people are like what on earth are you wearing you look like you could be working as it is as an adult dancer you know I mean like it’s okay You have to earn the ability to dress the way you completely want to. And the business sets the tone. And so you have to go along with whatever the tone is of the organization until you’re running the place and you can dress however you want. Like we see billionaires now wearing flip flops and shorts, but you have to read the room.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, I think what we talked about, too, and one of the things I want to described for today’s conversation was how do leaders make themselves available, right? So we’re talking about the duty of a leader trying to be a mentor, trying to be a coach, trying to lead by example. And so whether it’s flip-flops or not, one of the key things you said was that leadership told your son, you don’t have to take out the earring. That’s an opportunity for the culture and the mentoring and the coaching and the how do you make yourself available to the next generation. Don’t overlook that as a leader of an organization, These are key skills and needs that these guys have. So whether or not you’re putting in or taking out your earring, the communication of leadership to the next generation can be found easily in an internship. There’s also clubs. There’s also ways to go to like the Boys and Girls Club of America and sign yourself up as a mentor. And there’s different programs companies can execute and initiate on. There’s my hand, my guidebook, my companion guide, my how did you get here book. There are different ways that people can do this. But I think Sometimes leaders get a little overwhelmed. Well, how do I lead if it’s not just task and work oriented, like spreadsheet based work? And you just had some perfect examples on small talk. Make yourself available. Say the culture. Express the culture. Don’t be passive aggressive and don’t just assume it’s understood. And people like you and me who might lean a little more conservative on their appearance, right? Like I know I’m artsy and I have my tattoo, but I would never do that if I went into a client site. That that might be more the norm of the next generation. And you and I might have a little learning to do there. But saying and talking about it is the leadership. It is where you can start to pay it forward.
SPEAKER 07 :
And, you know, I think about, you know, the sometimes perceived hassle of having a younger person in the workplace who’s shadowing you or you’re doing an internship there. First of all, a kid needs to say what they’re capable of and I can handle more so that they become invaluable. Like a lot of news interns did that for me where they ended up working them up the ladder because they were so awesome. And then there were some I couldn’t wait to get rid of. And also, though, that we as the potential leaders are. need to take on that little bit of hassle. Like we might, you know, it’s our responsibility to mentor, you know, the next generation of leaders. So it might take a little bit of extra time. And then when you, if you are the kid, the intern, and you’re given a difficult assignment, like my son was given a pretty intense Excel project. He stayed really late doing that. So he stayed like eight or 10 hours that day and worked on that. And his shift per se and his internship is four hours. So it really, you know, go above and beyond to show them that you’re the type of employee either they want to hire or that they’re going to give a really great, you know, reference for when the time comes.
SPEAKER 06 :
Exactly. And so I have an intern that I just hired, actually. They started Monday this week. And it’s, to your point about having the kids in the same age group, it’s one of my son’s college friends. And so he was looking for a more satiating job than he had for the summer. The hours he was working were getting reduced. I own a company. I see it as an opportunity to run him through my program, my leadership development book, and my companion guide. And I also took a shine to him as my son’s friend. And one of the things we’re doing, and we did it today, we went over his assignment. His first assignment is to read my book. And in the chapters of the book, the way I laid it out, are the leadership skills that I have proven to be trained on as a leadership coach with the International Coaching Federation. It’s what I’ve experienced as a business leader. It’s what I developed as my sort of guideline to good leadership, goal setting, habits, leadership development, communication, self-care. And so his assignment is to read the book. And we are then to go over the book chapter by chapter for an hour and every day that he works on the internship here in the office. So today we went over chapter one. And I said to him, what comes up for you as we talk about the different styles of partnership one might encounter? And he said, well, I couldn’t figure out the difference between a kite and a string, the way you define your relationship and partnership. And I said, well, one’s a visionary and one’s more of a task-oriented type person. So what I want for you is to be aware of the difference and decide which is your preferred style. and then look for what complements that, and our work here is done. And it was so fulfilling for me, and it was so clear-headed for him because he was trying to answer, he was a little bit of both, and I’m like, no, no, we are all a little bit of both. This isn’t a test question. This is about awareness. This is about figuring out what kind of partner you want to be in relationships going forward if you’re interested in being a leader either at a development level or as a CIO or CEO of an organization. And so for me as a mentor and a leader, I really get excited about the opportunity he’s providing me to be able to do this. And I know our goal today was to say to the leaders out there that are interested in doing it, look at how interesting that opportunity is. And it’s in my lap when I come to the office. And it can always lap when they come to the office.
SPEAKER 07 :
And I love it that you are going through your book. And so people can find that and maybe read it themselves. Give us the info where we can find that.
SPEAKER 06 :
Absolutely. So my book and my companion guide and my availability, my coaching, all that is available through HowYouGoThere.com. And we’ve got email addresses. We’ve got links to the book, links to the podcast, links to the audio book, my companion guide, and how to sign us up for workshops. It’s all in there and you can get all or some of it. And I think the book is a great place to start for people to put context around the topic. Excellent. Thank you, Scott Montgomery. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER 04 :
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SPEAKER 07 :
Hello there, Angie Austin here with the good news, the good news with Angie Austin. Well, the good news is we’ve got a little help if you’re looking at colleges. We’re right in this arena and boy, it can be extremely expensive. We’ll have three kids in college at the same time. And I’m sure many of you can relate, whether it’s, you know, your kids or grandkids. And it’s a huge decision. And a lot of people pay a lot more for a school because they want that reputation. They want those connections. But is it worth the extra money? And where do those expensive schools rank? Generally, they rank, you know, pretty right up there near the top when it comes to the college rankings. So for some expert advice on all of this, the U.S. News and World Report is releasing its annual Best Colleges rankings. And joining us to discuss those rankings is Lamont Jones. Lamont is Managing Editor for Education with U.S. News and World Report. Welcome, Lamont. Great to have you.
SPEAKER 02 :
Thanks so much for having me.
SPEAKER 07 :
You’re welcome. So U.S. News releasing this annual college rankings year 41. Tell us about this year’s results.
SPEAKER 02 :
In our 41st edition this year of the U.S. News and World Report, our best college rankings in the two primary categories, best national universities and best national liberal arts colleges. For national universities in the top 10, Princeton University is once again number one. MIT is at number two with Harvard at Number three, there’s a tie for number four, Stanford and Yale, while the University of Chicago, which is the only new entrant in the top 10 this edition, is at number six. And there’s a four-way tie at number seven to round out the top 10. That’s Duke, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, and University of Pennsylvania. Now, over on the liberal arts colleges side, the number one is Williams College in Massachusetts. Number two is Amherst, also right there in Massachusetts. U.S. Naval Academy is number three with Swarthmore College at number four. There’s a tie at fifth, Bowdoin College and the U.S. Air Force Academy. And then a three-way tie at number seven, Claremont McKenna, Pomona, and Wellesley Colleges. And rounding out the top 10, there’s a three-way tie at number 10, Carlton College, Harvey Mudd, which is the only new intern in the top 10 this edition, and the U.S. Military Academy at West Point.
SPEAKER 07 :
Boy, those military academies right in there in the top 10, that’s wild.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes, yes. Yes, and we apply the same ranking factors to all the schools regardless of whether they’re a service academy or a public or private college, yes.
SPEAKER 07 :
Now let’s talk about that. How does U.S. News determine the best colleges?
SPEAKER 02 :
There is literally a process that takes the better part of a year. We’ve refined the process over the decades, yes, and we use methodology that includes about 17, exactly 17 indicators. They really measure how well colleges educate and graduate those students. We have a lot of the weight really is carried by the team of expert data analysts we have who administer this extensive three-part survey that’s sent to colleges that they fill out. And the data team gathers third-party data that’s important and relevant. And then a four-part certification verification review process to ensure data is as accurate as possible. The results are largely outcomes based. In fact, outcomes measures account for a little over half of the weight of the rankings like graduation rate, job attainment rate, social mobility. So those are factors that are important in the rankings every year.
SPEAKER 07 :
You know, a lot of people you talk about job attainment rate. That’s pretty important. A lot of people that I know, I’ve got friends that have a kid at Princeton and I’ve got friends that have a kid at SMU in Dallas. They both cost with all their fees, this, that and the other around 100 grand a year from what they’re explaining to me. What these job connections, that’s what they’re telling me is a big deal to them. The connections they make with other, let’s be honest, you know, kids of wealthy people. in many cases.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes. Well, that’s such an important factor that you mentioned. And it’s so important because it’s going to be one of the most expensive decisions a student or family makes in their life. You know, where do they go to college and which college to go to and how much it’s going to cost. That’s why graduation rate performance is 10% of the way. Borrowing debt is 5% of the rate. Students want something they can go in have minimal or no debt coming out and be able to get a job in their field. While we don’t specifically measure because it’s difficult to get that data and reliable across being able to compare it across schools in terms of uh some of those factors were able to look at the graduation rate how well they graduate the students that bring in um and they’re successful getting a job within a certain amount of time in their field after they graduate because again those are important considerations also we we encourage do not look at a sticker price it can confuse you um that’s like buying a car before any other aid is applied um there are a few students who relatively who have to pay the total cost out of pocket After scholarships, grants, federal work study, there’s loans. There are some tuition-free colleges. There are also some great hundreds of Promise programs for high schools and school districts across the nation that help pay for college. We have a database, online free database, 12,000 scholarships and counting that students can look at and apply for. So cost is a huge, possibly the biggest up there with the college’s reputation in getting somebody out of school. But the cost is so huge every single year to students and their families.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, it’s overwhelming to me in that decision. Like I had talked to – I’ve got three kids right around that age, and I had talked to my son in particular who’s going to University of Colorado Boulder but is interested in getting maybe a master’s at Booth in Chicago for business. And I said, you know, I was kind of thinking maybe you spend the money on the MBA and then he doesn’t spend much because it’s pretty economical to go in state to see you in Boulder or maybe go to a more expensive school your last two years. So you still get the name of the degree, but maybe save a couple hundred thousand dollars.
SPEAKER 02 :
You know, you are describing a very real situation, how you have to look at the money, weigh the money. That’s one of the reasons we offer year-round tons of content on how to pay for college. For example, whatever particular field of an MBA, whether it’s consulting, whether it’s some other aspect of a business degree, schools that rank the highest in those and do the best job of getting those student jobs at what rate paid. We have tons of content about how to pay for an MBA, schools that offer generous scholarships for your MBA. Really taking it, keeping the big picture in mind, but taking one step at a time, because there are scenarios where you can go in and like, oh my goodness, we don’t have to pay nearly what we thought we would for undergraduate. We can have a 509 savings plan or what have you. We can divert that money technically to a graduate degree. So as soon as families know and start planning early, that is the best thing. Start looking, planning, researching early. And we’ve done a lot of legwork at U.S. News. We put all the data together, and it’s a great starting point for undergrad and graduate school.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, I agree. I always look up your rankings when I’m talking to people or considering things or like my daughter is a volleyball player. So she’s going to a Christian school, which is so much different than my son’s school in terms of size, you know, 40,000 versus maybe 3,000. But also the rules, you know, so strict, you know, no drinking. They have dress code. They have curfew. So it’s a totally different ballgame for her. So what advice do you give her? for prospective students and parents, and how can they use these rankings to their best advantage as a lot of people are getting prepped to do all their applications now for college?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, at U.S. News, we advise prospective students to college and their families to, first of all, as a family, talk about and clarify what the student wants to study, or if the student doesn’t know what they want to study exactly, what career, what are the reasons for wanting to go to college? Once those are clarified, for example, programs of interest or areas of possible interest, schools of interest, whether it’s certain parts of the country, whether it’s public or private, whether it’s a faith-based school. In fact, I don’t write that much, but I had an article that published today about faith-based colleges and universities, information about that. Clarify what’s important to you and what your highest priorities are in terms of an education. And then come on over to usnews.com. All the content’s free. Look up the rankings. Search and filter by fields of interest, by programs of interest, by state, by region, by public, by private. Search in all those different ways, and schools will pop up. We have a tool that lets you compare different schools that meet a lot of your interests so that you can begin to see what’s out there, how much it may cost. Going over to our scholarship finder, over 12,000 and counting scholarships in that free database. Other content about how to pay for it every step of the way. Content on what you do as a high school freshman, a high school sophomore, junior, senior. It’s all there. So get together to find what’s most important. And then go on and use this as a starting point, and it will really help demystify and simplify and take so much of the stress out of what can be a really stressful process.
SPEAKER 07 :
you know, Lamont, when people talk to you, because this isn’t, you know, an area of expertise of yours. And like you said, it takes about a year. Do a lot of parents ask you, is it worth it to pay like the Princeton hundred grand, you know, a sticker price? My husband was just debating it with the dad of our friend. And he’s like, she’s guaranteed to get a job right out of college for like 200 grand a year, this, that, and the other. Whereas our kids that, you know, um, a different type of school and they kind of debate if it’s a guarantee. And her dad says it’s pretty much for her, a guarantee. And I know there’s no guarantees, but when you talk to parents about price and if it’s worth it, what do you say to them? Because to me, it’s a put half a million, you know, into a college education for one of our three kids is like, just, it doesn’t even make sense to me. I can’t wrap my head around it, but I do agree that she’s probably going to have a And how do you advise parents to weigh that? I mean, I’m sure it’s individual. If you’re a multimillionaire, then who cares, right? Just go for the best education where you can get accepted. But, you know, it’s a big thing to weigh in your mind. What advice do you give parents on the price tag? Is it worth it?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes. And we have a lot of content on this. It’s a hugely personal decision on an individual basis for families. For the average family in the U.S., Cost is a factor. A school’s reputation is a factor. The graduation rate is a factor. Reputation is a factor. So deciding what order those priorities come for your particular family, get those clear. And then, yes, cost is a factor, but understand there are many things that can affect cost and how much you as a family may have to pay out of pocket. For example, there are some schools that they meet need. They meet a full need. Nothing coming out of a family’s pocket. Yeah. There are a lot, but there are some of them, we have content about that. There are schools where you don’t even pay tuition certified. There are work colleges. You work a certain number of hours a week to learn the ethical work, and that pays your tuition. So clarify what’s important in your family’s mind and the student’s mind. Then go on, use all of our tools and our rankings and our data and our information to find those schools that can fit what’s important to you And then get started early looking for money to pay for schools, looking for how schools favor certain things. Again, no school can guarantee you a job getting out. Some schools have better placement, you know, attainment rates, but nobody can guarantee and nobody should ever promise that. If a school promises that, run the other way. And, in fact, there may be a legal team that promises that. But it’s very difficult for a particular family and what your needs and what your assets are.
SPEAKER 07 :
Sorry about that. I didn’t mean to step on you. What’s the best website for us to go to to get more info?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes, go straight to usnews.com. No paywall. Everything is there. Click on the Education tab on the homepage. It opens up to all the rankings content, all the content about every aspect of applying, getting in, and paying for, and winning in college, succeeding. It’s all there. There’s a newsletter that’s called Getting In. It’s every single Thursday by email. It’s free. It targets… Parents and other adults helping students apply to college, but a lot of students get it because it’s all sorts of information that de-stresses the process, de-mystifies it, helps you every single step of the way in the application calendar. It’s a great tool that if you’re familiar with college or if you’ve never even had a clue about your first gen maybe or first time, it spells it all out easily and simply with these three tools.
SPEAKER 03 :
Thank you. Thank you for listening to The Good News with Angie Austin on AM670 KLTT.
SPEAKER 05 :
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Join Angie and Scott as they explore the challenges and opportunities of college admissions with Lamont Jones from U.S. News and World Report. With college costs soaring and educational decisions becoming more crucial than ever, they discuss how parents and students can leverage rankings and financial aid to make informed decisions. Lamont provides detailed insights into the rigorous process of evaluating colleges, highlighting the significance of graduation rates and career prospects for students. This episode serves as an essential guide for navigating the complex world of higher education and aligns with the broader discussion on mentorship and career planning.
