Join Angie Austin as she delves into the complexities of narcissistic relationships with guest Kenza Haddock. Discover the traits that define narcissistic behavior, how these relationships impact emotional well-being, and what it takes to break free from the cycle of manipulation. Whether you’re questioning your own relationship or seeking to support a friend, this episode sheds light on the challenges of dealing with narcissistic individuals and offers practical advice for setting boundaries and finding support.
Welcome to the good news with Angie Austin now with the good news
SPEAKER 04 :
Hello, friend. Angie Austin with the Good News. And also, Kenza Haddock joining us. We are talking today about, interestingly enough, something I was just talking to several of my friends with because I think we might have all dated one of these people. Male or female, you may have dated someone that was your significant other that was a narcissist. And my friend is currently dating someone who’s definitely a narcissist but also has some substance abuse problems. And we’re like… What are you thinking? So anyway, Kenza had a therapist and also author and friend of the good news. I’m laughing because I looked up all of the signs of a narcissist and I was reading them to her and she has like four friends and we’re on this big girl’s trip and we’re like, what are you doing?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, it’s very hard, right? It’s very difficult when you realize it mid-relationship. That’s the issue because we rarely ever realize it in the beginning of a relationship. It’s only when we start questioning.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes, because a lot of them are love bombers. So they just tell you you’re the best. They’re trying to manipulate you. So they’re trying to get you wrapped up into them. So it’s harder for you to get away from them. So we’re going to talk today about what is narcissism? what does narcissistic abuse look like and breaking free from it? So first of all, what is narcissism?
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, one of the questions I get asked often is like, what is, it’s this question, what is a narcissist? Like, are they born that way? Do they become narcissistic over time? And with the word narcissism being used over and over, it’s easy to lose sight of what it truly means. And so the word narcissists, And I’d like to preface with this, Angie, we were all born with selfish tendencies. You know that I know that. I mean, scripture confirms that we were all born with a sinful nature. In fact, there are scientific studies showing biological markers of narcissism. Now this doesn’t excuse behavior, but it helps us see the truth that apart from God’s sovereignty and our submission to him, all of us are capable of displaying certain narcissistic behaviors. So apart from us, literally like just submitting our selfish tendencies to God. And so a true narcissist, though, is someone who displays lack of empathy. They literally cannot level with you, and you don’t feel like you’re heard when you’re around them. They manipulate and exploit other people for personal gain. They’ll even twist the truth to maintain control. They’ll struggle to take accountability. And this thing I see often is they will project their own faults on other people around them. It’s never their fault.
SPEAKER 04 :
Or if it’s their fault, it’s because you made them that way. Right. Your behavior. One of my friends said that her significant other, her husband, would do things that were so deplorable in their marriage, and the next day we called it a cup of coffee trick. He’d come with a cup of coffee in the morning and say – What did I do? Something is something wrong. I brought you coffee. And he said the reason I couldn’t make it work is because she couldn’t forgive like his cheating and, you know, verbal abuse. And he’s like, you just can’t let go of the past. And in my current friendship, a situation where my girlfriend’s been dating a guy, he doesn’t want to talk about all the bad things he does when he drinks. So then he’s angry at her because he’s He does not want to talk about it. So she’ll be like, let’s talk about our relationship. Let’s talk about what you did because I can’t live this way. And he doesn’t want to fess up toward or acknowledge it. It’s like it never happened.
SPEAKER 03 :
Absolutely. They refuse to take accountability because accountability literally unmasks them. And it shows their true self. I mean, you’re describing like what that abusive cycle looks like. I mean, if you’ve ever been on the receiving end of narcissistic abuse, it’s like you probably know how disorienting it is.
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, it’s crazy making. You’re just sort of like, am I crazy because these horrible things happen and then you don’t want to tell your friends because you’re so embarrassed. You know, they even got into a relationship like this. And then when you do tell your friends, they’re like, get out now. And then when you don’t get out, everybody’s like at their hands and they’re like, what are you doing?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, so it starts out literally with seeing those red flags and wondering, am I overreacting? And so if you find yourself asking that or saying, do I just need too much validation? Or why do I feel like a roller coaster emotionally? Then that means you’re I mean, these are signs that you’re part of that cycle of manipulation for the narcissist. And so it keeps you off balance and dependent on that narcissist’s approval or disapproval.
SPEAKER 04 :
Now, in terms of breaking the cycle, because I don’t – these relationships aren’t ones like, oh, I can make this better because there’s no accountability. They never want to talk about what they’ve done wrong. So you have to completely give up your feelings, your rights, your needs if you’re going to stay in that relationship. And then in many cases, they also combine this with alcoholism or substance abuse of some kind.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, yes. Yes. But they don’t see that the substance abuse. is an issue unfortunately um someone with narcissistic tendencies especially the the impulsive narcissist because there are different types but the impulsive one is going to have more of an addictive personality and so when you call them out on drinking or on gambling or something else they will turn going back to projecting fault they will look at you and say well i do it because of the way you treat me or because of the way you act and so it makes you really start questioning your own reality. One of the best ways to just start healing is first, we have to recognize we are in a toxic cycle and there is nothing you can do to change the other person. What you can do first is focus on yourself. And I talk about in my book, the four main toxic cycles, because here’s, here’s what I want to emphasize here. Narcissistic abuse is not a cookie cutter treatment just because one friend, this helps one friend doesn’t mean that it’s going to help you because we have different personalities, just like we talked about in other episodes, we process our emotions differently. And so you want to find out which toxic cycle you are. trapped in and once you identify you start finding your way out now one huge key and i think we talked about this before angie is setting those boundaries yes so how do that how do we go about doing that because you could maybe survive it if you can set boundaries i mean if you’ve got if you’re married you have kids you’re trying to make it work Right. No, absolutely. So a narcissist is often going to attack your character or your name. When that happens, you can be calm about it and just say, hey, I don’t appreciate the way you’re talking to me. If you continue to disrespect me, I’m going to end this conversation now. As soon as you say this, if they retaliate and continue that negative behavior, you have to actually do it. You either hang up or if you’re in person, you walk away. It’s not easy. And in fact, this is what I found with patients. It’ll probably feel so hard in the beginning because you’ve been conditioned to keep the peace, quote unquote, or avoid.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes, yes.
SPEAKER 03 :
We’re not called to be peacekeepers. We’re called to be peacemakers. And peacekeeping is basically avoiding conflict but dealing with inner turmoil. Peacemaking is actually standing your ground in a nice way. You’re speaking truth and love. Hey, I don’t appreciate the way you talk to me. If you continue it, I’m going to walk away. I’m going to exit this conversation. You’re focused on what you can control at that point. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay. All right. So the boundaries, you actually have to set them and then follow through on them. So these threats over and over again, if you do this again, I’m going to leave, I’m done, and then you just leave for a day and you come back, then there’s no really reason for them to stop their behavior because they know that these are false boundaries. Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
Absolutely. And you have to have a good support system because what the narcissist does is they take up space during that love bombing period to where all your focus goes to them. And so then you find yourself not hanging out with as many people. You find yourself not having that support system. And so when they fall through on their quote unquote promises, and they stop giving you the love that you’re used to getting, really, then what happens is you start experiencing depression. So setting up that support system, even if it’s like one or two friends that can encourage you, that can hold you accountable, that can check in on you, and you check in on them, and that can tell you, hey, listen, you deserve better support. You are, if you are in Christ, you are a child of God and you deserve better and I’m here for you and I’m rooting for you. That goes a long way. That’s something that you can do from the outside. Another thing that I hone in on a lot, Angie, is once we have set boundaries, once we’ve set up a good support system and have done other steps, one main step is we have to renounce. The unconscious vows, they’re called inner vows that we have made as a result of narcissistic abuse. Okay, so what’s that? Inner vows are, I’ll give you some examples. It’s basically whenever I say something like, I’ll never abandon my kids like my parents did me. Now, this sounds positive, okay? Or I’ll never be the type of parent my mom was to me, right? It sounds positive because who would want to be like an abusive parent, for example, if you’ve had an abusive parent, right? Right. The problem is we’re making a vow that is rooted in pain and judgment and self-protection rather than through the leading of the Holy Spirit. So when we make a vow out of our own judgment, if I say I’ll never be like my mom or my dad or whoever, then I’m setting a standard for myself that every time I fall short of that standard, I’m going to beat myself up. That’s where people are caught up. That’s why they’re caught up so much so in the I’m not good enough. It’s It’s because we have so many inner vows that we don’t know we have made that we haven’t dealt with.
SPEAKER 04 :
Interesting. Interesting. Okay. And one thing that when you do pull away and you do set those boundaries, that support system really comes in handy because They emotionally blackmail you. I’ve love bombed you. I’ve told you the best thing in the world. One of the things this guy said to my girlfriend recently is, you might leave me, but I will never leave you. I will never leave you. And it’s like, well, not when she’s supporting you and you don’t have a job and you’re collecting money from other women around the country. Why would you leave her? I told her, that’s no compliment. But he’s like, I would never leave you. You might leave me, but I love you so much. I would never leave you. And then when she does pull back, there’s that emotional blackmail where he calls her horrible names, sends her horrible texts. And of course, he’s drinking. And then so he pulls his love away because they love bomb you and they pull it away. So then you’re like, oh, my gosh, it’s so weird to not have that love. So then you said you have to have that support network. But also, don’t they try to keep you from your support network? Because I’m assuming now after she came to stay with me and she broke him up. I mean, sorry, she came to stay with me and she broke up with him. Then she went back and got back together with him. I’m assuming that I’m not really like welcome in the home now since I’m the one that she comes to stay with me for a week and breaks up with him and then goes home and gets back together. Obviously, he thinks I had something to do with it. So don’t they try to keep, you know, what she tried to keep her away from me and other people like me that are saying, like, get rid of this dude.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Because then you become a threat. Yes. His sense of control of the relationship. And I’m so glad you brought up emotional blackmail. I mean, we can literally go on and on about it because it’s manipulation dressed up as emotion. That’s what emotional blackmail is. And the narcissist knows how to make you feel responsible for their emotions themselves. even though you’re not. And so they start to literally, they will threaten to withdraw love. And you brought a good point. And here’s why it’s very difficult on the person when the narcissist withdraws love. When they first met you and love bombed you, There’s a chemical in your body called dopamine. That chemical literally rushes through your system and makes you feel good about yourself. Before you know it, you’re hooked to the way your brain starts associating that person with the dopamine rush. And so now every time you see them, every time you talk to them. So imagine now you’re used to this. It’s like it’s literally like a drug. I mean, that’s where the word dope came from. And so now you’re used to associating that person with that. All of a sudden they withdraw their love. You go into a dopamine deficit. So now you’re feeling depressed and down about yourself because you’ve been used to getting it from them for so long. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, well, and they’re especially desperate trying to stay into it. You’re really in a bad situation if you’re fully supporting them and they’re drinking and you’re supporting all their bills, all their spending, all their drinking. I mean, oh, my God, I don’t know what the draw is in that situation. But, boy, then they’re really desperate to manipulate you. All right, Kenza, where do we find you, your books, and get more info?
SPEAKER 03 :
You’re welcome to go on www.kenzahaddict.com.
SPEAKER 04 :
Thank you, friend.
SPEAKER 03 :
Absolutely.
SPEAKER 02 :
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SPEAKER 04 :
Hello there, friend, Angie Austin and Grace Fox with the good news. Today, we’re talking about her book, Finding Hope in Crisis, Devotions for Calm and Chaos. And we are focusing on the devotion titled Not Alone in the Fire, Not Alone in the Fire. We often feel like we are alone in the fire. Hello, friend. Hi, it’s good to be with you again. Hey, any fun events with you? I always like to ask about your ministry work, your writing work, your speaking work, your grandma work. You’re always traveling with family or for your ministry going overseas. Anything going on?
SPEAKER 05 :
Oh, you’re finishing a book, too. You know, it has been a crazy summer because my husband went without me to Slovakia and Poland for a month this summer while I stayed on the boat. And I, like, literally stayed on the boat. And I wrote… about 12 hours a day.
SPEAKER 01 :
Whoa.
SPEAKER 05 :
I finished, I finished the third and last book in a series for the names of God. So I just like, like a day ago finished the third book. So that feels like a chapter that is, um, you know, I’m flipping the page on, onto a new chapter, but goodness.
SPEAKER 04 :
And you know, it’s interesting. We talked about your to-do list and how, in depth they are and how you write them down and you have stacks of computer paper where you put new things that need to be done underneath other lists and I’m always shocked when you almost always make time to do our interviews unless you are like you know in Poland or something but you almost always make times even when you’re in the midst of this 12 hour a day writing I’ll be like well I’m sure you’re really you’re like no I’ll fit it in and I’m always so thankful that you make time to talk to us
SPEAKER 05 :
Oh, Angie, you know, I was in church yesterday, and I talked to our women’s pastor for a minute. She knew that I had been writing all summer. And she goes, are you okay? Like, are you okay? And I went, you know what? Actually, I am. Because there were times, like at the start of the book, where I’m thinking, I can’t do this. And I would catch myself with that negative self-talk. To me, it was like, well, looking at the mountain, I’ve got to climb this mountain. I don’t know how I’m going to do this. And I have to stop the negative self-talk and say, God, you called me to this. You will give me the strength one step at a time. And in your mind, you know, God, this book’s already done deal. Like it is finished in your mind. And I just have to stay in tune with you day by day, day by day to say, what is it you want me to incorporate? Like, I know I’ve got my plan. I’ve got my outline. But you take free reign with this. And if I’ve got the wrong anecdotes in mind, you switch it up. If I’ve got the wrong person to interview in mind, you switch it up and just guide me through this one step at a time until it’s done. And that’s That’s basically how every book has been for me. It’s like this huge thing at the outset and fears that’s in and I have to go, no, if you’ve called me to do this, you will help me get it done. And he does. I just was journaling this morning and saying, God, you did it again. You got me through it again. And so I, as I was talking to the women’s pastor yesterday, I said, you know what I decided to do? Like I get up, I do my quiet time. I’m talking early here, like four, get up, spend time alone with Jesus. Then I go to the gym because I know that if I don’t work out, my body is going to be fried at the end of three and a half months of sitting. So I have to work out. I do that. And then I come back and I got to be ready for a Zoom prayer meeting for our ministry at seven in the morning. And so I’m washed up. I’m ready. I’m sitting down in front of the computer for this prayer time. And after that prayer time, then I would start to write. And I just said, I feel like, you know, where scripture says, seek ye first the kingdom of God and all these things will be added unto you, that I did that. I kept my quiet time with God first. I kept that prayer meeting as a priority as well. And then all these things will be added to you. I didn’t say, I don’t have time for that today because I got to write. I didn’t do that. And I feel like God just honored me for it. And he, yeah, it’s good. It’s all good.
SPEAKER 04 :
I’m tired, but I’m good. I’ll bet you are. You know, when we talked about the big project and how overwhelming it is, it reminds me of that whole, you know, how do you eat an elephant one bite at a time because you’re like, well, I could never finish that. Hello. And then it reminds me also, it’s not probably a very good comparison. It’s a little different than writing a book. But my daughter left for college and I have to use her room as a guest room when my friends from Los Angeles come into town. We’re going to go up to the mountains in the Rocky Mountain National Park and see the fall colors and everything. the elk it’s the elk rut season so you’ll have like the you know the one male and like 60 or their harem of like 60 ladies and they’re bugling and sometimes they argue with each other in the streets and they’re all over the town of Estes Park and all over the Rocky Mountain National Park so anyway they want to come see that well then I’ve got teenagers three teenage bedrooms that literally need to be dug out now my daughter promised me she’d have hers ready before she left and I feel her bedroom is your book Like, it’s just like one step at a time. I mean, I emptied five baskets of laundry yesterday, like washed them and got them into the closet because there is not enough room in the room for all of her clothing. And she left so much behind. So I FaceTimed her and like went through. Do you want this? Do you want to donate this? Do you want me to bring this to college? Do you want me to keep this here? So I really was able to thin the herd. But then when I started opening up drawers, I was like. Her ADHD drawers are the craziest things I’ve ever seen in my life. They’ll be marbles. They’ll be a dye. They’ll be part of like an old doll. Then there’ll be a notebook. Then there’ll be gum. It’s like there’s no – it’s the – if her drawers were her brain, I can see why sometimes she gets distracted. I’ve never seen a whole dresser filled with such random items before. in my entire life that go back to baby pictures to third grade journals to, you know, papers from, you know, junior high. I’m like, oh my, how do I go through this? Like, do you just dump the drawers out and toss them? Do I just tape them shut? Like, what do I do with them?
SPEAKER 05 :
I’m listening in awe because I have a daughter with ADHD as well. And I remember those days when she was, okay, we’re talking way back to elementary school. And, you know, two daughters sharing the same room, one with ADHD, one with not. And the difference there from one side of the room to the other. Wow. But, yeah, I remember looking in the desk and going, oh, my goodness, this is like crazy. We lived out near a lake, you know, out of town. And at that time, and I thought, this could draw mice, literally, right? The half-eaten candy bars in the drawers and those types of things. I thought, that’s got to go. And I remember going in when she wasn’t around. Maybe mom shouldn’t do this. I don’t know. But I took a garbage bag into the room when she wasn’t around.
SPEAKER 01 :
Did she figure it out?
SPEAKER 05 :
No, it’s like she didn’t even notice. She didn’t even notice. But I just, I went into the room, into her drawers rather, and I just took out those kinds of things that were, they were literal garbage. And I just thought this just can’t be. I respected the other things, but I just, the garbage I just took out because I thought, I don’t want mice coming in the house looking for these half-eaten candy bars and bugs and that, you know.
SPEAKER 04 :
I think that’s a great idea, and I think I’ll try to do something similar to that. But when I look in the drawers, you know what I think of? You’re going to be like, you’re a terrible mom. I think, wow, this kid is a lot of fun. What she has in these drawers, I’m like, wow, this is a lot of fun. Fidget spinners and crayons and art and journals and letters to friends. Yeah. One time she made me a painting of a banana doing the backstroke, and then there’s a cheeseburger with a turtle on top sculpture. I’m like, this kid is fun. I want to hang out with her, but I do not want to live in her bedroom.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, yeah. I think it’s neat that you’ve identified. the positive in that. That’s great. Yes.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes. She’s so fun. So yeah, I’m just going through, you know, right now and I’m gathering things to take back to call, but to see her again in two weeks, like she gets a little lonely and it was kind of sad. You know, these kids that are, one of the girls is from Poland. I don’t think she’s been back in several years. And, um, one of the coach said, you know, it’s kind of hard on ESA when you talk about your parents coming back so much, you know, try not to rub it in, you know, cause your hope’s so excited to see us. And we usually come every two weeks to see something, whether we go to Florida or St. Louis or Nashville. We go to where she’s traveling if we don’t go to her campus. And, you know, I’m sure she’s considered maybe a little spoiled because of that. But we’re a very close family. And, you know, she was 17 when we went to college. Some of these kids are seniors and a little more capable by now of being off in a different state than my kid may be. So anyway. I said to her, just be careful around the girls that are from Serbia and from Poland that are not getting to see their families very often. So make sure that, you know, we also make sure that we’re kind to them or bring them special things when they’re there as well.
SPEAKER 05 :
That’s great. I’m glad you do that. And you’re mindful of that because it’s got to be hard on those kids.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah. Can you imagine not getting to see your parents like for a couple of years while you’re in another country? I mean, you’ve got a built in family with your volleyball team in your town, but still. it’s definitely a challenge for sure. All right. So what, what’s the next big event on your horizon? What do you have coming up next after this book is released?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, this one won’t be released till July. So there’s a ton of work to do between now and then with editing. There’s a Bible editor layer. There’s a Hebrew editor layer because they look at the names of God, make sure that I’ve spelled them correctly, interpreted them correctly, applied them correctly. All of that editing has to be done. Then I will be, um, developing the teaching videos. That’ll be the whole month of January, and then I’ll record them at the end of the month. But between now and then, yeah, I’m going to Romania in November, Romania and Egypt. I’ll be gone for probably three weeks during that time. And before that, I’m going to take a trip to Alberta to go visit some family I haven’t seen for three years. I’ve got several speaking engagements out there. I’m actually… Going to be hopping on a plane in a week and flying to Toronto to do some tapings about the names of God for the television show 100 Huntley Street. And I’m going to be doing some tapings in a few days for 700 Club Canada as well.
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, that’s neat. Now the Romania-Turkey trip, what will you be doing during that trip?
SPEAKER 05 :
Romania, we’re going to be taking a volunteer team and we’re going to be 15 and sorting hundreds of boxes of donations that are being shipped over there for families. So the ministry that we will partner with there ministers to young adults that are living with HIV and AIDS and also with the poorest of the poor. And they are going to be getting… Christmas bags together. So there’ll be clothing in these bags. There’ll be, um, if, if the bags are going to a family with a baby, there’ll probably be a nice baby blanket involved there. Uh, but some candy treats, uh, always a gospel tract, um, hygiene products as well. And so we’ll be sorting all these boxes of stuff that come and they’re not sorted. I mean, it could just be clothes and hygiene, everything just thrown supplies all in one box. So, um,
SPEAKER 04 :
So you’re sorting the majority of the time and getting the boxes ready?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, just sorting through the boxes that have been shipped already and will be between now and the time we get there, there’ll be more coming. And then we will be probably ministering in a senior’s home. We’ll be ministering in the day center that ministers to these kids that have HIV and AIDS. So when they come in, we’ll do Bible studies with them, discipleship with them. Some of these kids we’ve known for a long time.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, that’s neat. Do you know about the new AirPod 3s that do live translation of languages?
SPEAKER 05 :
I don’t know about the AirPod 3 specifically, but I know that we’ve used apps in the past. And actually, I was at a big conference in Atlanta for a week in August and met a guy who’s got an office in Egypt. He’s a pastor there, and he handed me a little gizmo that has probably every, like the Bible in every language you can imagine on this thing. Wow, that’s neat. Yeah, so I’m going to find out more about that, and then I will be taking that with me to Egypt to share with our Middle Eastern staff at our conference there in November so that they know that they can get it, because a lot of them are working with refugees in refugee camps. And so this thing that solar power generated, they can distribute these things to these refugees in these camps that, you know, they can hear the Bible read in their own language.
SPEAKER 04 :
I love it. I absolutely love it. Okay, so I want to hear more about that. When are you going to leave for that one? November. Okay, cool. I want to hear more about that. All right, great. Thank you. GraceFox.com. I’ll talk to you next week. Congratulations on finishing that book. Oh, thank you. Bye, friend.
SPEAKER 01 :
Thank you for listening to The Good News with Angie Austin on AM670 KLTT.
