In this episode of Living God Ministries, host Aaron Budgen explores the profound relationship between God and his followers through a verse-by-verse study of Ephesians. Delving into the roles of apostles, prophets, and others in ministry, Aaron emphasizes the significance of genuinely knowing God and participating actively in His work. The conversation challenges listeners to rethink traditional structures and aim for a deeper, personal connection with their faith. The episode sheds light on how God equips and transforms believers, enabling them to contribute meaningfully to His ministry. Aaron also highlights the obstacles that often prevent believers from engaging fully,
Shema Yisrael Welcome to the broadcast outreach of Living God Ministries with Aaron Budgen. Aaron discovered Jesus is his Messiah while preparing to be a rabbi. He now teaches for several organizations and is the teaching pastor for Living God Ministries. Strongly distinguishing between the Old and New Covenants, Aaron presents the scriptures from a Judaic and historical frame of reference. Join Aaron now as he reveals the reality foreshadowed and the new life we can now experience because of what the Lord Jesus accomplished for us.
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Thank you for taking the time to listen to this program. Do also go to our website, livinggodministries.net, and read through the recent testimonials page that we have there. There you will see the effectiveness of this ministry and discover how we have cleared away many of the common barriers that keep them from knowing their God, growing and maturing in their faith. Again, you can find this page at livinggodministries.net. And know that as you listen to these programs, you will likely find something that will be significant for you to grow and mature in your relationship with your God. I’m presenting a verse-by-verse study through Ephesians, and in the previous message I was in Ephesians chapter 4, between verses 7 and 12, some of the important points that I would like to mention with regards to the previous message was that God is the gift himself that he gives himself to us, and because of the new relationship that that develops between our God and us personally, he will then make changes within who we are just because of the relationship that we have, and he will be able to make use of us in ways that benefit his ministry. And I mentioned in the previous program that his ministry is what is important here in this world. What he is doing with regards to his purpose, his objectives, why he created the world to begin with. And I emphasized that he wants people to know him because they want to know him. He wants people in his life because they genuinely want to be in his life. So he gives himself to people who are born again, who are his children. He gives himself to his children, and as he grows and matures us, he will find ways to allow us to participate in the work of ministry, in the work of his ministry, which has to do with calling new people to himself who would like to know who he is and who want to have a relationship with him and who will also want to participate in the work that he is doing so that people can have a relationship with him if they want to. Now, when we participate in the work of God, there are, of course, many different ways that we can participate in helping people to know who he is and have a relationship with him. There are many different ways that we can participate and facilitate and be involved in order to help people work through a lot of the obstacles that tend to be in the way when people want to know him for who he really is. And now taking a closer look at verse 11, this is Ephesians chapter 4, verse 11. It says, And he himself gave some to be apostles. And this word gave is certainly an expression of God giving to the world something. However, this begins with him being the gift to them. He gave himself first to these people. And through their relationship with him, they, of course, experience change and growth. And when they interact with the world, they interact with the world first. in a different way than they interacted with the world before they knew their God. And so because of this change and transformation within us, because of this change, then in effect, he has given to the world a new person. And in that way, he has given people to be apostles, prophets, evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, as it says in verse 11. Now, this does not automatically mean that he has just specifically worked with individual people to say, okay, now you are going to become an apostle or you are going to be a prophet. And yeah, I know that you really want to be a pastor or a teacher, but now I’ve decided that you are going to be an evangelist. This is something that I have seen in the attitudes of a lot of people that they really do believe that, that this is how God has accomplished this. And most of these attitudes come from these people who really want to be in these roles, but they are not necessarily well-suited for those kinds of roles. This can be a really challenging thing to define because it has to do with the relationship based on free will between God and the person who he is getting to know, and the person who is getting to know their God. It has a lot to do with our personalities. It has a lot to do with what is important to us personally. It has a lot to do with the life experiences that we have had and the kinds of problems that we have worked through in our lives and other problems that we have not yet really worked through. And so there’s two things that I really want to mention concerning this issue of people assuming that God just defines certain people to be this way and other people not to be. The first thing that I would like you to keep in mind is that this is a unique synergy between two different people. and that this is not necessarily a unique decision of God, such that there is a specific person who is always going to be in this position, who is always going to fulfill this role. I don’t see that. I personally have found myself fulfilling the role of an apostle, fulfilling the role of an evangelist, but not always. And of course, I have fulfilled the role of a pastor and as a teacher, but not always. And I feel very comfortable with that. And that’s the second point, is that just because a person may be fulfilling the role of one of these persons that are described here doesn’t mean that they will always do that. And to put that kind of expectation on a person, I think, is just unrealistic. And it does take away from the relational experience that our God has really called us to, to have more of a relational experience, which means change, and it means differences. It means that our life is a living experience, not just some well-defined operation that takes us all the way from the womb to the tomb, which a lot of people would like to believe, but… You know, after a while, I think it becomes quite obvious that as much as you may want to believe that, it just doesn’t work out that way. So these are some things that I really wanted to mention concerning this before I get into this in more detail. Now taking a peek first ahead at verse 12, before I spend a lot of time in verse 11, taking a peek at verse 12, he describes why these people are in existence, why they are involved in other people’s lives. In verse 12, he says that this is the reason why he gives himself to people who he then works within and through for the benefit of other people. That’s the summary of Ephesians chapter 4, verses 7 through 12. Why does he do that? In verse 12, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ. I’m not going to spend a lot of time on edifying of the body of Christ. We can just summarize that and say so that the body of Christ feels better. I personally think that the first part of this verse is what’s really the focus of this passage, and so I’m going to spend more time with the idea of preparing and equipping the saints for the work of ministry. And in the previous program, I mentioned that the effectiveness of these people who are in a role that helps others become more prepared for the work of ministry so that they would, in fact, do and participate in the work of ministry— I mentioned that some of the challenges can be related to either a failure of the person who is fulfilling one of the roles described in verse 11. It could be a failure of that person, you know, a person in leadership. It can be a failure of the people who are being equipped, you know, the saints who just simply have no desire and no interest to be a participant in the work of the ministry of God at all. But in general, you’re going to find that it’s going to be some combination of the two issues. You know, I myself, I have spent a lot of time with large groups of people. And there have been many occasions when I have just simply asked the group of people who were listening to me. I would just ask them, why are you here? You know, I mean, what are you really doing here? You’ve been listening to me. every week for years and years. You know, I mean, what are you people really doing here? And I get an honest answer quite often. I would get this answer, the answer of, well, we are just here to listen to you talk. And you know, that sounds interesting, but I’m not really into this for an audience. That’s just not what I’m doing here. I really do want people to know their God, to have a personal relationship with Him, to be equipped for the work of ministry, and to engage and participate in in the work of ministry, you know, for other people to go out there and tell other people about the God who they have come to know, not just sit there for years and years listening to me talk. You know, I mean, what’s that really about? So, you know, it can be a combination of the two. You can have the greatest pastor of all time, and I’m certainly not saying that I am, but I’m just saying that in order to exaggerate the point. You can have the greatest pastor of all time, the greatest teacher ever, right? an apostle of God, a prophet, and the ultimate evangelist that the world has ever seen, and yet the people who he speaks to for years and years are no more equipped or prepared to participate in the work of ministry than they were before they encountered this person. And the simple reason why is just that they just don’t want to. That’s just not what they’re interested in. They are there for other reasons. So what should this person do? Well, of course, they should go find other people to talk with. You know, why waste their time? Why waste God’s time when you can go and find somebody else? And let me tell you something. I want you to really pay attention to this. You can see a congregation of a thousand people, and you can see a fantastic worship service and leadership team and a pastor who speaks in a way that everybody just loves to listen to him. But you know, the fact of the matter is, is that that person who is telling these people about the Lord could very well be more effective just speaking to one person a week who genuinely wants to know their God and be a participant in the work of ministry. One out of a thousand. He could be more effective in… in the work of God and in the work of ministry, if he would just get out of there and go find one person a week. And I’m saying that in order to make the transition into verse 11, because there are a lot of people who you can tell have been sent by God. This is an apostle. An apostle is someone who has been sent by God as a representative of God to share what he has revealed to them to other people. There are a lot of people who would definitely be qualified to fulfill that kind of a definition. and yet you’ll find that they are not going to be very welcome in just about every assembly that they try to participate in. The same thing with a prophet, and I’m going to use the definition of someone who will proclaim the Word of God. It does not necessarily have to mean that this is somebody who is proclaiming what will take place in the future. From a historical context, I prefer that definition, that it is someone who is proclaiming something in the future. But in this kind of a context here, that kind of a definition just doesn’t fit in very well. There are people who can be much more aggressive and much more forthright. about speaking the Word of God in a way that would be different from what you would expect of just a general apostle. But this person is not likely going to be welcome in many of the assemblies that you see of Christians. Same thing with an evangelist. What’s an evangelist doing there anyway? These people are supposedly already saved. The evangelist is considered to be a person who goes out and tells people about the Lord who do not know him to perhaps inspire them to take him seriously and get to know who he is. Pastors and teachers, there is a place for a person who will encourage someone to get closer to their God. I believe that that’s the primary role of a pastor, to encourage people to get closer to their God. Sometimes the pastor is referred to as a shepherd. And there are, of course, a lot of pastors who love that kind of a role, that they are the shepherd of the church. There are a lot of people who have personalities for that, and they fit in those kinds of situations really well. You might consider them to be extreme control freaks who believe that no one in their building has any authority in their lives without the permission of the pastor. That if you walk into their building, well, he has total and absolute authority over every aspect of of your life. There are lots of people like that, but I do not believe that that is the proper representation or role of a pastor. A pastor would be better described as a sheepdog, not a shepherd, someone who directs a person to be closer to Christ, not closer to being a servant of the religious leader of the church. and a teacher. You know, the role of a teacher is someone to teach. It doesn’t mean that somebody’s going to learn, and it doesn’t mean that the person is going to be a good teacher. You know, but if the person who is teaching teaches well enough, then that’s good. You know, just as a teacher has a responsibility to teach, so also someone who is learning from a teacher has a responsibility to learn if what is presented is presented reasonably well. Both people need to put out some reasonable effort in order to make this work. And, of course, what is the objective? The objective is that you may know your God. This, of course, includes being corrected of things that you might believe that are not true. The teacher and the pastor helps people to overcome a lot of the obstacles that keep a person from drawing near to their God. Or… As you probably have noticed, there seems to be an abundance of pastors and teachers who seem to present a lot more obstacles in people’s way that keep people from knowing their God instead of getting to know him more. But you will find that there are a lot of people who are fantastic teachers who Fantastic pastors. And if you put them into an assembly of Christians, they will not be welcome. They will not have a place. And so if I may use the expression, God forbid that you might be one of these people, you know, that he gave you a gift such as this. to be his representative for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, God forbid, because if you try to go out and be a part of a large congregation of people, you’re going to discover that they are not going to want you there. They’re going to want you—this is just speaking in general, of course, there’s always exceptions— but they’re going to want you to sit there and be one of the saints who is not— being well prepared for the work of ministry, who is not being equipped. They’re going to want you to sit there and be quiet, speak when you’re spoken to, and only within the boundaries that they feel is acceptable. Make sure you pay your tithes, and if they need help with anything, you had better volunteer for whatever services they have a need for. And so to be given a gift such as this, if we were to use this expression in this context, to be a person, who God has sent for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, if you’re one of these people, you’re going to find it to be quite a challenge to be welcomed anywhere among the saints. And I know that there are a lot of you out there who can relate to this, who understand exactly what I’m saying, that you have really had a deep desire to go out and be who God has created you to be— Be who he has sent you to be. And yet you don’t know where to go. Everywhere that you have gone, everywhere that is available, you have been rejected and told that you are not welcome. And you know why? Because you are a competitor. to the leadership that’s already there, you know? It’s a business, like I explained in the previous message. In most cases, these are businesses, and you’re going to cause a disruption in the business if you equip these saints for the work of ministry. Folks, what do you think would happen if you were to consider a congregation of a thousand people, or let’s make it simple, how about 200 people? Consider a congregation of 200 people. What would happen If every person in that congregation was well equipped for the work of ministry, What would happen? I mean, what would that really look like? How long would it take before they would ask themselves the question, what am I doing here? Why am I here? What’s the purpose of me even being here like this? I am not making good use of my available free time, you know, outside of work to be a part of the work of ministry. You know, the whole group would disband. And people could look at that and say, well, my goodness, you know, that would be a failure. But would it really? You know, I mean, keep in mind, what is the objective of God so that others may know who he is? And if these people are just sitting there every Sunday morning saying, this is my religious time of the week. This is what they do. They go and assemble together in this one location to see each other, hang out with each other. And of course, you know, I want to encourage this. This is a good thing to do. But if that’s all that people do, which is what tends to happen, this is all that what people do, and they just do not go out and reach others for the gospel, right? You know, that others may be saved. How about that? Or others may grow to know their God more. Is that happening? No, no. And so why not just simply allow people the freedom to go out and find some new people who they can help, who they can be of service to, whom they can minister to, to be a part of the ministry. And a lot of people could look at that and say, you know, that’s a failure. But I don’t think it would be. I really don’t. I do think it would be a failure if a group like that disbanded and nobody did anything. That certainly would represent a failure. And so these are some things to keep in mind. You know, when you’ve got a group of people who are all together for three years, five years, ten years, and yet there is no real increase in the kingdom of God. I mean, what are you really a part of? Is this really what God is doing? You know, is that what he’s a part of? If you’re going to assemble like that, don’t. do so keeping in mind that everybody ought to be participating in the world around them, not that congregation so much like this, but in the world around them to be an apostle to the world, a prophet to the world, an evangelist to the world, a pastor and teacher to the world. And folks, if you feel alone, That is good. Get out there and let that be a motivation to not be so alone. And absolutely, you can be more effective speaking to one person a month sincerely about the God who you know in a way that they will hear, they will receive, and they will consider. You can be more effective speaking to one person a month than having an audience of a thousand people who are just sitting there because they like to hear you talk. If you haven’t noticed, God works with people on an individual basis, one-on-one, and so do not feel as though working with another person one-on-one is somehow inadequate. Be a part of the work of the ministry. This is what God has been doing, if you haven’t noticed. He works with people individually because he wants an individual relationship with people. He can certainly enjoy the collective relationship with a congregation, but that’s not really where the growth and maturity happens with a person, and that’s not really where the personal interaction happens between a person and their God. And we know that we have a God who desires a close relationship with the individual more than the group. And this is something that you need to pay attention to. And that is that God wants individual relationships, so you also should not feel shy about pursuing individual relationships. one person at a time. And do not look at a church as the institution that exists for the purpose of providing you with someone to have a relationship with. This can easily become an obstacle that keeps people from participating in the ministry, from participating in the work of God. that they assume that that’s what a church is for, and they’ve got to find a church for this because the pastor and the leaders are there to provide them with someone who will be their audience, who will be their friend. Instead, for people who get stuck in something like this, you need to recognize that the world is filled with lost people, and you’re not likely going to find them in a church. Get out there and participate in things. that will give you opportunities to meet new people and make new friends. And if there’s nothing going on where you are, create something. I will continue with this in the next program. Thank you for tuning in to today’s program. This is Aaron Budgen and I recently released a book titled Building Life. This is for young people who are starting out into adulthood, and it is also for those who have found themselves in a circumstance where they are starting their lives over. I have put a lot of effort into writing this book. It is a short read of about two and a half hours. It is only available directly from me. So if you would like a copy, go to the Living God Ministries website, and you will see a link there that says, Inform Me of Aaron’s Books. Fill out the form, and I will get back with you as soon as I can. do take the time to go to the Living God Ministries radio archive at livinggodministries.net. The archive is divided up into three sections. The first section is more of the life of Christ, and I provide a lot of historical content there in those programs. And I have made a lot of important contributions from a historical perspective to better understand what was taking place during Jesus’ ministry. In the second section of the archive, I speak about our life in Christ. And in the third section, you will find the verse-by-verse studies. If you would like some recommendations on what to listen to and in what order, do just send us an email to staff at livinggodministries.net. You will find that email on the Contact Us page. And after a conversation with me, I’ll give you a list of programs that I would recommend and in what order.
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