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Explore the National Crawford Roundtable podcast as we dissect the U.S., Ukraine, and Russia’s complex relations. Our hosts discuss the media’s portrayal of the international saga, Trump’s negotiation style, and Zelensky’s internal challenges amidst the ongoing conflict. From dissecting ego-driven leadership to understanding economic leverage and strategic military posturing, this episode offers a thorough analysis of how global politics is shaping today’s headlines. Tune in for an enlightening discussion that goes beyond the surface to reveal the underlying intentions and future possibilities within this geopolitical chess game.
SPEAKER 01 :
Welcome to the National Crawford Roundtable podcast, a view of culture, current events, and politics through a biblical lens, brought to you by Preborn, saving babies and souls. Join us in the fight to save babies from abortion. Your gift provides a free ultrasound for a mother in need. 80% of the time, she will choose life. Visit CrawfordMediaGroup.net and click on the Preborn logo to donate to save babies now. and by SunPower LED light therapy devices. Bring light to your pain. Visit CrawfordMediaGroup.net and click on the SunPower LED logo to get out of pain and improve your overall wellness. And now, here are your hosts, Neil Boron, Bob Duco, and John Rush.
SPEAKER 02 :
welcome another edition of the national crawford roundtable i’m your host today john rush out of denver colorado my show is rush to reason bob duco from detroit michigan with the bob duco show with us as well and neil boron from buffalo new york neil boron live all three of us together guys good morning good morning john always a joy and and i know i say this occasionally but really enjoyed the time we have together i learned something from you guys every time we talk and i appreciate it greatly we’ve got a few things today that we’ll cover. We’ll talk a little bit about what’s going on with Russia, Ukraine, Trump, the meetings and so on. There is some news that have come out of late about debanking and how Obama and Biden pressured banks. We’ll get into some of that. There’s a new pregnancy robot coming out of China that’s made the news. I talked about that on my show a couple of days ago. And if we have time, maybe get into a little bit of AI at the very end. But let’s start talking about the meetings. And these started last Friday with You know, Trump and Putin, and there’s a lot of speculation as to what was going to come out of those meetings. I personally wasn’t anticipating a lot. Bob, I think you and I even had mentioned a little earlier in one of the podcasts about, you know, it most might get a ceasefire out of the deal for a little while, but you and I, neither one were expecting anything. you know, really a ton because we know this is a complicated issue. There’s a lot of things that have to be taken care of, a lot of moving parts, you know, three narcissists, let’s face it, Zelensky and Putin and Trump, three narcissists working together. And I have my own feelings upon, you know, Putin and Zelensky especially. And I just, you know, I thought this would be a first, step in getting things, you know, moving in the direction that they need to go. I was by no means expecting to have an all out done deal by Friday. And of course it’s not, and it’s going to take some time, Bob.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, well, it is. And this is why, first of all, I have to say, when I watch how the press handles this, my eye just twitches because all they’re doing is trying to look for negative, negative, negative in anything here. Caroline Leavitt just excoriated the press right to their face the other day saying, look how you guys are reporting this. I mean, look at what we’re talking about trying to accomplish here. And all you guys can do is nitpick and find anything negative that you possibly can. The fact is that, yeah, you’ve got three big mass of egos. But one thing about Donald Trump is he knows how to handle egos. He knows he’s got an ego. He knows these guys have egos. He knows that Vladimir Putin has a big one and has to appear strong. So I get that. But the fact that Trump is at least getting Putin to agree to a bilateral meeting with Zelensky and then potentially a trilateral meeting afterward – And the fact that you have several European leaders that come to Washington also to be part of this meeting, I’m thinking let Trump be Trump. He’s – if anybody can pull this together, he can. And so let’s see what happens with it. But at this point – we have to realize that Vladimir Putin is a bad guy. He is a bad guy. He invaded Ukraine, and he’s not entitled to keep part of Ukraine. But it doesn’t change the fact that these are the spoils of war, and he’s claiming them. And I think Trump realizes that. And so… He’s got to convince Putin to keep some of Ukraine but not too much of Ukraine, to convince Zelensky to give up some of Ukraine because the alternative is you give up all of Ukraine. If we pull all of our support and leave you on your own, you’ve got a few months left and you’ve got 0% of the country. Is that really what you want? So I’m thinking let’s just be patient and let’s let Trump handle this behind the scenes the way that he typically does best.
SPEAKER 02 :
I’ve said that. I said that the other day on the program. Monday, actually coming into the program, said exactly the same things that you just said, Bob. Be patient. Let this work its way out. A lot of what you just said is spot on. I think, too, that I had a conversation with one of my listeners that isn’t as… probably in the same camp that, you know, you and I, and I’ll get Neil’s opinion on this in a moment, but not in the same camp, Bob, that you and I are on thinking this thing is going to drag out. It’s never going to get resolved. Someone else over there. I’m like, no, you’re not giving Trump enough credit. This thing will be resolved. Trust me. It’ll just take some time because the one thing that, that even I think Zelensky has to be reminded of at times, he’s got a huge ego as well, but he, you know this is the golden rule the guy with the gold rules and right now that’s the united states of america so what zielinski is going to have to understand at some point is and maybe he already does to your point a moment ago bob if you go to him and say listen there’s a deal on the table and you’re going to better you know you better take this deal because the alternative is you’re on your own and we will no longer be here to back you up so at the end of the day this is how this deal is going to move forward And I think the biggest issue, and this, Neil, this is where I was going to go to you. I think that the biggest issue for Zelensky is he’s got to figure out internally with his own communication countrywide how he gets this deal done, solidified. If there is territory that has to go or that is now then given back to Russia, there has to be a vote because their constitution won’t allow him to make that on his own. That has to be done on a countrywide vote. I mean, there’s a lot of moving pieces here. That have to take place. And again, to the point Bob and I were making, Neil, you’ve got three big egos here that you’re trying to deal with. And Zelinsky having just as big of an ego as the other two, by the way. And I’ve said it before and I’ll keep saying it. Also not the smartest guy in the room.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, I agree on that point. But, you know, and I wasn’t on the podcast last week and I don’t exactly remember the timing of the Putin Trump meeting in relation to that. I think that it happened slightly before you guys met last time. But either way, I remember, you know, hearing people criticizing Trump regarding that meeting. You know, he came out of it with nothing. He’s got nothing to show. There’s no ceasefire, et cetera, et cetera. But. i mean if i’ve served as a pastor for a while you guys know that so like if i uh was called in to help a family in crisis a husband and wife that are thinking about splitting up divorce whatever there is a time to meet with one and then the other and then bring them together. Like the idea of just everybody’s got to be in the room, we’re just going to hash it all out at once can be chaotic and stuff. And when you’re dealing with these egos and you’re dealing with history and culture and other things that come into play on conversations like this, especially regarding Ukraine and Russia, then that’s pretty complicated. And I commend him for having a plan. And the plan was meet with Putin, later meet with Zelensky, later bring in world leaders, try to get those two guys together. And the legacy media can say all they want about Trump came out of this with nothing. Did Biden ever do anything like this? Or did he just send money to Ukraine to keep this war going and stay in his basement eating vanilla ice cream? Like, This Trump ought to be commended for sticking his nose in and trying to get something done. And by the way, yeah, I think I think Putin, you know, has some real problems in terms of, you know, integrity and ruthlessness, etc. But five years ago, if I’m not mistaken, around that time, you know, Donald Trump was impeached during his first term in office. largely because of a phone call he made to Zelensky. And at that time, we were talking about Ukraine being one of the most corrupt countries on the planet. So you’re dealing with a guy who’s in office, who got reelected during a time of war, kind of questionable basis. Putin pokes fun at that question. But, you know, who are we actually dealing with here? I’m not sure. But at least Donald Trump is trying to sort it out and trying to get some kind of a consensus on a worldwide stage, not just these two guys, but bringing the European Union and NATO members into it. I commend him. And I, you know, I think that it’s got to play out over time. Anything that should have come out of that first meeting, according to the legacy media, probably will play out over time. But they just want to jump all over Trump and say that he’s not doing anything. And I think they’re completely wrong.
SPEAKER 02 :
I agree. And before we keep going on this, Bob, I do want to give you time to talk about pre-born and not really a way to dovetail into this other than the fact that we need to make sure that, you know, lives matter in this war, lives matter in our war for the unborn, it matters as well. And we can’t forget that.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s right. Lives matter in the womb too. And, you know, you got babies that are being butchered by groups like Planned Parenthood all over the country. And then you have pro-life centers all across the country that are trying to save these babies’ lives. Well, one of the best ways to do it is show an ultrasound image of that unborn baby to the mom, because statistically she chooses life almost all the time and very often accepts Jesus Christ as Savior. Problem is, we don’t have enough ultrasound machines in pro-life centers across the country. Some of them don’t have a machine at all. And the ones that do aren’t able to operate them as much as they would like because it takes money to do this. And that’s why we ask you folks in the audience, will you pay for the ultrasound images? Partner with Preborn. Give to Preborn so that more ultrasound images can be shown, so more babies’ lives can be saved. It’s really that simple. So if you can buy an ultrasound machine, we need some of you in the audience to do this. They’re $15,000 a piece. Hey, you get a nice tax write-off for it. And you get to know that you’re stopping thousands and thousands of abortions year after year. Now, for everybody else, like, oh, I can’t do that. Okay, but can you pay for an individual number of ultrasound images? Because $28 is going to save one baby’s life. That’s the average ultrasound expense to stop one abortion. So how many abortions will you stop? Take $28 times fill in the blank. That’s your gift to Preborn. And if you’ve given already, please give again. And 100% of what you give goes to fund ultrasounds, not a penny for overhead. That’s all covered by private donors. So here’s how you give. Just go online right now to CrawfordMediaGroup.net. Click on Preborn. CrawfordMediaGroup.net. Click on Preborn. Or if you want to give over the phone, the answer, the phone’s 24-7. Call 833-850-BABY. That’s 833-850-BABY. Just mention National Crawford Roundtable when you call. And, you know, while you’re at CrawfordMediaGroup.net, also check out SunPowerLED because, Neil, they’re a phenomenal organization that helps heal people with light the way that God intended.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah. And the light God created, it’s called photobiomodulation or light therapy for short. And it utilizes certain wavelengths, red and near infrared wavelengths of light to penetrate the human body and provide healing. And the way it does that is it excites the mitochondria in the cell. It reduces pain, reduces inflammation and swelling and promotes healing. And real-time story about 45 minutes ago, I was reading up on some of the things we’d be talking about today. stood up to get a cup of coffee. My right knee has been aggravating me, and I’ve been using light therapy to help mitigate that. But I felt a sharp pain in my knee. It was kind of throbbing a little bit. Got the coffee, sat down, put the Palm device from SunPower LED on my knee. About 10 minutes later, stood up, walked around pain-free, like 10 minutes. That was unbelievable. Well, that just happened this morning. I’m telling you, you need to check it out. If you suffer from migraine headaches, joint pain, tinnitus, wound care. Maybe you’ve got a wound that isn’t healing. Check out what light therapy can do for you. And by the way, if you go to CrawfordMediaGroup.net and click on SunPowerLED, make sure you use the promo code ROUNDTABLE10 if you purchase a unit and you’ll save 10% just because you’re a listener to the National Crawford Roundtable Podcast. So it’s SunPowerLED at CrawfordMediaGroup.net. John?
SPEAKER 02 :
Let’s go back to Bob and talk about for just a moment this whole idea that Zelensky has a lot to do to get this done, even if he himself believes that this is the way to do it. And by the way, I’m not sure that he does. I think at the end of the day, he’s not going to have much choice when it’s all said and done. He then has to get this ran through the, you know, quote unquote, you know, running up the flagpole, get it handled internally in the country and so on. What are your thoughts along those lines? And I don’t know the makeup of Ukraine that well. I do know that that part of the country where, you know, Russia has basically taken over. That end of the country has always been more pro-Russia than probably pro-Ukraine. So at the end of the day, how does he get all of this past what he needs to do countrywide if, in fact, that ends up happening? There’s sliver of land, whatever it is. How does all that get presented countrywide and then passed?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well – The thing is about the internal workings of the Ukrainian parliament. You know, I know Zelensky, he says, well, the Constitution won’t allow me to give up any land. Well, OK, you kind of want if you’re on the verge of losing your entire country, potentially, then you do what you got to do in this case. The Donbass region that you’re referring to, Putin right now controls about three fourths of that. But there’s about one fourth that Ukrainian forces are still holding on to. And with a Klingon death grip, don’t want to let it go. Yes. If we look in an absolute sense, then Putin doesn’t have a right to be there at all. It all belongs to Ukraine. Go back home. But that’s just not going to happen. Putin is the aggressor. He’s taken this land. And this is what’s going to be necessary for him to end the war. But you’ve got to remember, from Donald Trump’s perspective – Trump is the one, okay, the United States are the ones with the leverage. We have leverage over Russia and over Ukraine. Trump is just being smart enough to use our own leverage, right? He’s sitting there with a royal flush in his hand. He can be as tough as he wants to at the table. And let me just say, here’s the leverage that we have over both of these countries. The leverage we have over Zelensky is if we pull our support And we get our European allies to pull their support. You’re on your own. That’s it. You get 0% of the country. So your choice is take about 80% or take 0%. Those are your choices. And you need us more than we need you. Yes, we need your rare earth minerals, but you need our support way more than we need anything from you. But he can say the same thing to Putin. This is one of the reasons I think Trump was able to bring Putin even to the table because he can say to Russia, and I can totally see him saying this to Putin behind closed doors. I can see him saying, let’s not kid ourselves. We need each other, but you need us worse. And the reason you need us worse is because we have something. that you covet large. We have the U.S. purchasing consumer. And the rest of the world needs to sell their products in our country. And if we tell those other countries around the world to stop buying your oil, stop buying your gas, stop buying energy from you, you’re going to lose billions and billions and billions of dollars. Because if I say to a whole boatload of your customers, you have a choice. Either keep on buying energy from Russia or keep tapping into the U.S. market. If they have to choose between those two, they will choose the U.S. market and you will be left high and dry and go bankrupt. Don’t make me be the bad guy. I’ll do that if I have to. All right. So that’s the leverage he has over both of these countries. Trump is just being smart enough and shrewd enough to use the leverage that we as the United States actually have in this case.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, one of the other things, too, that he got criticized was the flyover, which, by the way, the timing of that couldn’t have been any better. Whoever was in charge of all that needs a commendation because they did that just awesome. And the left is accusing Trump of, well, he’s just in bed with Putin and this, that, and the other. No, nothing could be further from the truth. That was a statement to Putin of… Yeah. You know what? We’re still the big dog. And at the end, well, actually, you might think you’re the big dog, but we’re the lion. You know, we are the roaring lion. At the end of the day, you might be the big dog in this fight with Ukraine. But at the end of the day. You know, just don’t forget who you’re talking to here when this is all said and done, Neil.
SPEAKER 03 :
And by the way, can I just say, even Bill Maher said that this claim that Donald Trump is just Putin’s stooge, or B-word as he put it, he called that a, quote, zombie lie. That it’s painfully obvious that Trump is not being controlled or manipulated by Putin at all. And I agree. Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
I agree. I love the stealth bomber flyover. I mean, it was unbelievable. Never seen anything like that because it was definitely an attempt to flex some muscles.
SPEAKER 02 :
I mean, and and happened at just the time that Putin looked up. I mean, there they are. I mean, you again, you couldn’t have planned that any better.
SPEAKER 04 :
No, and I’m sure he got the message loud and clear. Now, that doesn’t mean Russia wouldn’t be a formidable foe, especially with their nuclear weapons and so forth. I mean, but nobody wants that scale of war, because if you get that scale of war, then you’re talking about the obliteration of the human race, probably. But… long and short of it you’re 100 right Bob that we have bargaining chips in this case with both parties but one thing that I wondered you know regarding Russia is they’re pretty nervous about Ukraine in general they always felt like Ukraine was like the little brother somehow connected to Russia family to Russia and there’s quite a few Russians that live in Ukraine and there’s connections on both sides of the border and whatever but um They’re pretty nervous about this whole NATO thing and the idea of putting, you know, European military in the country to provide security and support with U.S. promises to back up, you know, not no boots on the ground, according to Trump. But the idea that the U.S. would be supportive of military intervention if necessary to keep Ukraine safe in the future, you know, to guarantee that kind of safety. That’s like one of the things Putin doesn’t want. So I can’t imagine that even if he gets, you know, 20 percent of the land mass that he’s going to go. Yeah. And, you know, bringing all those troops into Ukraine right on our border, that sounds like a good idea. So I’ll agree to that. I think that’s going to be a sticking point. And I’m not sure how they’re going to get around.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, and that’s one where he’s not going to have much choice because when we go over there to start mining and doing some of the things that we want to get repaid for what we’ve put out on the front side, when we come to getting things on the backside now to get ourselves repaid, what Putin doesn’t understand is there will be American contractors, there’ll be Americans there, they will be backed up by the full force of the United States of America. So at the end of the day, he didn’t have much choice. Again, I’ll go back to what Bob said a moment ago, the thing that Putin has to realize and Maybe he does or doesn’t. You know, again, it’s the golden rule. The guy with the gold rules. We’re the guy with the gold. And for all of those folks out there that don’t like tariffs and all the other things that Trump has been doing, what Trump is finally doing for a change is instead of running around the world apologizing for us being what we are, he’s actually using what we are, the largest customer in the entire world with the most powerful military, with the most buying power of any country on planet Earth. The reality is it’s about high time we started using that for our favor.
SPEAKER 03 :
When you got the cards, play the cards. And we’ve got the cards and he’s playing the cards. You’re absolutely right. And by the way, let me just say, as far as NATO goes, and Neil, the point you were making, I can understand why Putin – this is a hill for him to die on, that Ukraine cannot be part of NATO. Because if Ukraine became part of NATO, part of the NATO charter is any NATO nation that’s attacked militarily, the other nations are required militarily to respond and militarily fight back against whoever the aggressor is. So if they were a part of NATO – then that means that if Russia ever tries to invade Ukraine again, he’s going to have entire NATO coming after him. But then Zelensky says, well, we need to be part of NATO then. We need some kind of security guarantees. To John’s point – and, John, you’re absolutely right – Trump is telling Zelensky, and I agree with this, that here’s your security guarantees. We don’t need to have boots on the ground. We’ll have planes in the air, but we don’t need to have boots on the ground. All we need to do is have a United States footprint with miners, engineers, banking operations and such that are set up in Ukraine with the rare earth minerals. We do that. There’s your security, because there’s no way in the world that Vladimir Putin is going to kill United States civilians over here operating business as business partners. That’s not going to happen. So I think, yes, some European troops on the ground. UK has already said, we’ll put boots on the ground in Ukraine. All right, fine. This is where Trump can go back to Putin and say, if you don’t really… have any intention of invading Ukraine in the future, then why do you care if UK has boots on the ground there? So let’s be honest here, okay? You’re trying to keep the window open to come back in sometime in the future. We’re trying to close that window, but we’re doing it without NATO, all right? So that’s got to be enough for you, Vladimir. So my best guess is that’s how Trump’s probably handling it back and forth.
SPEAKER 04 :
Hey, real quick, in addition to the B2 thing, and I know we got to be quick here, but what did you guys think about
SPEAKER 02 :
uh putin’s remark did you think he was playing trump and playing to his ego but he said that if trump or the republicans had been in power in 2022 they would have never invaded ukraine i can confirm that putin said oh my god i don’t think i don’t think he’s playing to trump’s ego at all i think he’s making a statement by the way to the democrats saying you guys have been talking about how it’s the opposite of this no let me tell let me set the record straight here had trump been in power and have been president united states i wouldn’t have done this Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
No, I think that’s absolutely what he said. I think Putin is basically saying, look, Trump is a formidable foe. This is the one guy in the world that has the ability to go toe to toe with me. And he’s letting people know to a certain extent, yes, I respect that. You Democrats are weak. OK, fine. But guess what? I’m strong, too. And, you know, whatever. So, you know, I don’t I think he I think he knows on the worldwide stage that. that everybody realizes that Trump is a strong force to be dealt with here. And Putin just acknowledging that, I think, makes Putin himself look more honest, makes people go, well, Putin’s not really playing a shell game or a dishonesty game. He’s speaking truth. And so that I think enhances his own credibility a little bit as far as transparency and honesty. So I think it was strategic on his part, but strategically smart.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, no, I agree. And so at the end of the day, by the way, thank you for bringing that up, Neil. I kind of had forgotten about that part of it. And I think that’s a real key in all of this. And again, you know, at the end of the day, for everybody listening, please don’t listen to all of the quote unquote pundits that are out there because the majority of them are on the left. And as Bob said earlier, they are looking for every single thing they possibly can poke at to see where there’s been a mistake made. They are not looking at the positive of this any way, shape or form. So when you listen to some of those folks that are on the left or all of the left, I should say the Marxists that are on the left, just remember what side of the aisle they’re coming from. Now, all that being said, I do think there’s some folks even on the right that don’t want this war to end. This thing is funneling and financing all sorts of things for different individuals. And for anybody out there that would say that that’s also Trump, no, that is not Trump. It’s been stated here even in the past few days that, you know, coming into office, one of the first things Trump talked about is he wants peace. He wants peace all over. That is in his goal. That is in his mindset. it’s you know trump understands that without peace you don’t get the economic growth that we need in this country because all those things become a distraction i personally believe he wants these things done and over with so that we can concentrate on the task at hand bob and neil which is getting our economy back on track figuring out what the fed’s doing get some things taken care of in light of the housing market and so on and that’s where trump really wants his focus to be he’s doing this right now because he has to He would much rather be on our own soil dealing with the things that I just mentioned rather than dealing with these two knuckleheads called Zelinsky and Putin. With all that being said, Bob, Preborn, great organization, by the way, which supports what we do here weekly, giving us the opportunity to even have these conversations.
SPEAKER 03 :
They are a great organization. And I know a lot of you in the audience have given to Preborn already. We appreciate that. Many of you have given multiple times to Preborn. And I’m just going to be bold enough to ask, will you give again? Because we got to keep on saving babies’ lives. Make this part of your home missionary budget that you’re stopping abortions by giving to Preborn. See, you’re paying for ultrasound images. When a mom sees a picture of her baby through an ultrasound image in a pro-life center, She chooses life. She doesn’t go across the street to Planned Parenthood. $28 is the average ultrasound expense to stop one abortion, to save one baby’s life. So pray about a number of babies’ lives you’ll save. That’s all. Take $28 times fill in the blank. Whatever that number is, that’s your gift to pre-born. And hey, if you can buy an ultrasound machine, we need some of you heavy hitters out there. They’re 15 grand a piece. You get a nice tax write-off, and you’re stopping thousands and thousands of abortions every year. But for everybody else, it’s $28 times fill in the blank, whatever that number is. And remember, every dime you give to pre-born goes to ultrasounds, not a penny for overhead. That’s all covered by private donors. Here’s how you give. You can call right now, 833-850-BABY. The answer to the phone is 24-7. So call 833-850-BABY. Or just go to CrawfordMediaGroup.net, click on Preborn. CrawfordMediaGroup.net, click on Preborn. And while you’re there, click on SunPower LED. Neil, great organization.
SPEAKER 04 :
SunPower LED, they make light therapy affordable. Light therapy has been out there for a while. And by the way, there are some devices that are really puny in comparison to I don’t mean size-wise, I mean in terms of power. You can buy light therapy devices that are cheap and buy them on Amazon or whatever. They’re not gonna do the job, the same kind of job that you can get from SunPower LED. The concentrated power of red and near-infrared light penetrating deep into the body can do incredible things. I think I’ve told the story of Caleb a couple of times. He’s a guy who was recovering from a pickaxe accident, literally put a pickaxe into his ankle tendon and severed it by accident, good Lord. Anyway, doctors said it was going to be like six to eight months before he could walk again. But he was walking in four weeks and didn’t need any pain medication in the process. Light therapy is powerful and you need to learn about it. There’s videos you can watch, but it’s simply taking the light God created. Harnessing certain wavelengths of that light and using it to help reduce pain and swelling and promote healing in our bodies. Go to CrawfordMediaGroup.net. Click on SunPowerLED. If you buy a unit, use the promo code ROUNDTABLE10. And as a listener to the National Crawford Roundtable, you get a 10% discount. ROUNDTABLE10. When you go to CrawfordMediaGroup.net, click on SunPowerLED and learn about light therapy.
SPEAKER 02 :
One last thing I want to mention when it comes to our sponsors, too, guys, is make sure that you let them know. Most of them have drop downs and so on where you can let them know you listen to us and them on the National Crawford Roundtable. That really is a help not only to them, but to us as well. So as you guys reach out to these different companies, even if you just make a phone call, you’re inquiring or whatever, please let them know. that you heard him here, that helps us out immensely. We’re going to wrap up this first half of the National Crawford Roundtable. I want to close on the whole Zelensky, Putin, Russia, Ukraine deal by just saying this. Be patient. Stop watching the news. Pay more attention to folks like myself, Bob, and Neil when it comes to what’s going on with Russia and Ukraine because most of your national pundits don’t have any idea what’s really going on. They’re going to poke holes at Trump as much as they possibly can. So be patient. We’ll see how things unfold here in the coming weeks. But this is the first half of the National Crawford Roundtable.
SPEAKER 01 :
This is a Crawford Media Group production.
SPEAKER 02 :
Welcome back. Second half, National Crawford Roundtable. Appreciate y’all listening. We talked in the first half about Zelensky and Putin and Russia and Ukraine and Trump and all of what’s going on there. And as I said a moment ago, in that first half, I should say is, you know, just be patient. Watch what goes on there and we’ll see how things develop. And it’s not going to take place overnight, unlike what maybe a lot of people think should happen. I’m going to switch things up. I wanted to talk about the debanking thing and Obama and Biden and the pressure that was put on banks. But there’s a big topic that came out this week. And I don’t know whether, you know, Neil, you or Bob, either one saw this. I’m going to start with you, Neil. But there is. And I thought at first this was some, you know, clickbait thing. It wasn’t real. This isn’t this isn’t really in development because I just thought this is just crazy. There’s no way this is possible. But China is And there’s a company there that next year is going to begin testing a pregnancy robot, they call it. I don’t think it’s going to be an actual robot. It’ll be probably more like an actual incubator. But basically what they’re trying to do is replace the womb so that, you know, especially people that have a hard time having kids or if you’re in places to where, you know, maybe you’ve gotten a little bit older, but you still want to have kids or there’s complications where mom can’t have, you know, all sorts of things along those lines where maybe mom can’t have a baby and so on. And at the end of the day, there’s this company that’s trying to come up with an artificial womb, whereby a baby from, you know, fertilization can be, you know, basically incubated in the womb and brought to fruition, which real quick. And I know we’re going to talk about preborn here, but it’s interesting that we’ve got a company that’s actually trying to create life in an artificial womb while we’ve got an entire world out there, especially a lot of folks in the U S that are trying to kill babies in the womb, Neil, but this whole idea of having an artificial womb, what are your thoughts?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, I was shocked. I had not seen any of that before. And when you sent me the article, I thought for a minute, is this clickbait? Exact same thing. It’s hard to believe, you know, where modern technology has taken us and then the moral and ethical implications and I think spiritual implications that go along with it. It’s shocking. I got to believe there’s going to be people out there arguing in favor of whatever benefits it can bring. But I say do a cost benefit analysis. And let’s look at this thing critically, because if you think about it, mankind throughout human history has tried to find a way to take control of our own destiny. I mean, literally after the fall, you know, I think God gave Israel the law for one reason, and that was to prove that we cannot save ourselves. Hey, just keep these 10 commandments and you’ll be saved, right? You can achieve perfection just by keeping these 10. And most of us have broken a majority of them, if not all of them. So that that happened, of course. And then, you know, you got like Darwinian theory trying to prove that the earth came into being through some method other than the fact that it had a designer, a creator who is our father, God, who created everything, including human beings in his image. And so then the next step comes in that the idea that. Here’s mankind created in the image of God. Well, if we can’t remove God from the equation, let’s at least remove his image from the equation. So you have you just mentioned the abortion industry snuffing out human life at every turn. And then in this case, trying to cut mom out of the equation in a sense. Hey, look at, you know, if it’s inconvenient for a woman to have a baby or maybe she’s got a she thinks a really important job. and doesn’t want to waste the time to carry a child for nine months. And I didn’t mean wasting. That’s not me saying that. I’m saying in her mind that I’m not going to waste nine months of my career to try to carry this baby, and then I’ll just have others care for this child. But at least I can say I’m a mom. Well, I don’t know. We’re trying to cut God and the image of God out of every aspect of our human experience here on the planet. And ultimately, I think for whatever benefits you could argue, I think the roots of this kind of thing are demonic, personally. That’s where I’m at with it.
SPEAKER 02 :
Bob, your thoughts?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, you know, it’s interesting in looking at this story. I sympathize with a lot of what Neil is saying. On one hand, I think, Jesus, how much longer until you return? Because we’re getting so deep into the well of manipulating – humanity and even genetic manipulation and everything else. So, yeah, there are issues there. But then there’s this other part of me that says this is nothing more than just a natural extension of things that have already been done. Like, for example… Test two babies, okay? So we fertilized eggs in a laboratory, but then we take the fertilized egg and we put it inside of a woman’s womb, okay? Surrogate wombs, we’ve already had surrogate wombs. You have the young couple that the mom can’t carry a baby, so what they do is they fertilize the egg between mother and father, and then they implant that egg in the woman’s mother’s womb and And then the debate is, hey, is this the baby’s grandmother or mother? What’s the baby’s grandmother? But she used her womb basically as a surrogate during that time. So now we’re just basically having the baby develop inside of some kind of non-human mechanical apparatus, if you will. I can’t help but wonder what psychological effect that could potentially have on the baby because there’s a lot to say about the relationship. Connection. relationship between an unborn baby that’s developing in the womb and the mother or even the surrogate mother, but the human connection that’s part of that. If you take a baby and you let that baby grow and develop in essence like the movie The Matrix or there’s a Star Trek episode about the Borg, how they do babies like that. You do wonder what psychological effect might it have on that baby as a human being growing up, being that disconnected from humanity during those initial nine months. I don’t really know. And that raises concerns for me. But I will say this. None of this is a replacement for God because at the end of the day, you still need the female egg created by God, the male sperm created by God. Right. So whether you have artificial means of manipulating the growth of the two, the core ingredients can only be created by God.
SPEAKER 02 :
All right. And speaking of technology and all the things that are involved there, and as we learn and grow, and this is a great topic, by the way, I’ve got some things I want to add to that as well. And I appreciate, Neil, what you had to say. But along those lines, technology, we have got some great technology that does promote healing. It’s not a healer. It promotes the natural healing you already have going on in your body. And that’s SunPowerLED.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, and I think what I’m latching onto here is you’re introducing my conversation about SunPower LED, one of our major sponsors, is the idea of healing. The reason I bring it up is because I believe that big pharma, and I think more and more Americans, millions, are beginning to believe that big pharma does not really have an interest in healing anybody of any disease they’re dealing with. They want to help us better manage those diseases perhaps, and experience some of the blessing of managing a disease, but not ever getting past it. And then, uh, side effects from medication begin to create other complications. So we have to take additional medications and all the while big pharma is making more and more money off the backs of people that are suffering with some kind of an ailment or disease. not getting cured well light therapy is designed to help heal your body it takes the very light god created it shoots it inside your body in a pain-free way you don’t even feel it you don’t feel anything there’s no uv radiation you’re not going to get cancer but it takes certain wavelengths of red and near infrared light utilizes it underneath the skin in the body to excite the mitochondria in the cell to reduce pain and swelling, and guess what? Promote healing. If you want to learn about it, and I suggest you do, you’ve got to go to SunPowerLED at our website, CrawfordMediaGroup.net. Just click on SunPowerLED. Watch a video. Learn what light therapy can do to heal your body. And by the way, use the promo code ROUNDTABLE10, and you’ll be able to get a 10% discount. CrawfordMediaGroup.net, SunPowerLED, which, Bob, is also where you’ll find preborn who are protecting human babies inside the womb.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s right. You know, there’s a great news story that I saw that Costco has decided they are not going to be selling the abortion pills in their pharmacies, which is great news. Of course, first thing I think is Costco is known for bulk buying. If you’ve got to buy abortion pills in bulk, you’ve got some serious problems. But But the fact is we are saving babies’ lives every day by showing ultrasound images of these unborn babies to the expectant moms. This is done in pro-life centers all across the country. Preborn does this all over the nation, but it takes money to activate those ultrasound machines. So $28 is the average ultrasound expense to stop one abortion, to save one baby’s life. So how many babies’ lives will you save? take $28 times fill in the blank. It’s that simple. If you’ve given a pre-born already, would you consider giving again? $28 times fill in the blank. And that’s your forever legacy of the number of abortions you stopped. And hey, we need some of you out there to buy ultrasound machines too. They’re 15 grand a piece, nice tax write-off for you, but you’re stopping thousands and thousands of abortions. For everybody else, what number of abortions will you stop? $28 times fill in the blank. And don’t forget, 100% of what you give to pre-born goes to the ultrasounds, not a penny for overhead. That’s all covered by private donors. So you can give, yeah, by going to CrawfordMediaGroup.net, click on pre-born. CrawfordMediaGroup.net, click on pre-born. They also answer the phones 24-7. So you want to give over the phone, just call 833-850-BABY. That’s 833-850-BABY. And mention National Crawford Roundtable when you call, John.
SPEAKER 02 :
I think what’s interesting about this whole conversation and what I kind of dovetail, and I agree with a lot of what Neil said as well. I think those are some of the, you know, moral questions that have to be asked any kinds, you know, anytime this type of technology comes along. Although the thing that I think I looked at Bob in regards to preborn is, okay, here’s a company, they’re coming out talking about how we can have an artificial womb, meaning that there’s life that has to be put into that womb from day one, otherwise it doesn’t grow into a human, of course. So now you have to go back to the abortion sides of things, Bob, and say, okay, wait a minute, we’ve got this company in China that’s gonna make an artificial womb, meaning they can actually take a baby from the time of conception and grow it to a full-term baby, meaning that that is life inside of mom’s womb from day one. Right. It absolutely is.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, first of all, I’ve found it such a joke when the pro-abortionites out there try to claim that life doesn’t begin until viability or birth or something like that. This is ridiculous. You know what? If NASA discovered fossilized microbes on Mars, the headlines would read, Life Found on Mars. So this is absolutely a human life from the moment of conception when those 23 and 23 chromosomes fuse together. You have a brand new human being with his own unique genetic makeup, DNA, blueprint, blood type. All of the ingredients are there. The only thing left now is the growth and development of this new human being. And by the way, that only lines up with science and medicine. That also lines up with Scripture. Before you was born, from the moment you were conceived, I knew you, God says. So you are you from the moment of conception in Scripture and in medical and scientific evidence.
SPEAKER 02 :
Again, this is a great topic. Let me jump in for one second. Go ahead, Neil. Absolutely, go ahead.
SPEAKER 04 :
I know that you’ve got other things to talk about.
SPEAKER 02 :
No, no, you’re fine. Keep going. You’re fine.
SPEAKER 04 :
This whole conversation has reminded me of several talk shows we’ve done focused on the issue of adoption. and foster care and that kind of stuff, because, you know, a couple of times a year you’ve got Foster Care Awareness Month and that kind of thing. So but we’ve had some really powerful conversations with families that opened their home to children from other parts of the world and stuff. And some of those are, you know, stories that just bring tears to your eyes and they’re wonderful and others are very painful stories. And I’m saying these these families would be commended because they’ve taken in children that are coming to America or coming to their homes. having experienced tremendous trauma. And sometimes it’s sexual abuse or physical abuse. Sometimes it’s just absolute neglect. And those children, in fact, I know the story of one family. I certainly won’t tell their name or anything like that. But their child was acting in almost, it would go into almost demonic kind of fits because the child had detachment syndrome or whatever they call it. There’s a word for it. I’m not sure exactly. But trauma informed counselors were working with that child and with the family because this, you know, babies are supposed to be held. It’s great when a mom can sing to them or whisper in their ear. Dads, you know, can play with them and turn them upside down and shake them and do all the wonderful things that dads do to make babies laugh and stuff and children, toddlers. Well, when that attachment doesn’t occur. You don’t really have somebody who’s developing as a normal human being. You might be feeding them, you might be providing oxygen, but they’re not getting the social interaction that they need with a sibling or with parents. And now I realize once you take the baby outside of this robot, then they say, well, then they’re going to give it to a family that’s going to love on it. but i think that those nine months matter and i there’s been plenty of studies done that say that babies recognize their mother’s voice coming out of the womb you know they recognize siblings voices kids are talking to their little brother that hasn’t been born yet anyway i just i think it’s a real dangerous road you’re going down when you start talking about using that kind of technology to bring about human life and again i think everything you said some of the things i mentioned the other day when we talked about this on air and on my program and
SPEAKER 02 :
Of course, these are some of the unanswered questions that, you know, how is this going to work? What’s it actually going to look like? Some of the pictures that you see, I believe, are AI generated, and I highly doubt that’s exactly what you’re going to have when it’s all said and done. Will this be a, you know, a womb where it’s got constant attention and somebody’s watching over it, you know, day and night?
SPEAKER 03 :
Is it going to be a glass case people can look in from the outside?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, I kind of doubt it, to be honest with you. It would be a womb with a view. Yeah. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. That’s bad. That’s bad. Well, and you kind of wonder, you know, to your point, though, I mean, if there’s different things that are happening, you know, will there be actually more involvement from family members and will it be more talking to the baby than what maybe you even have right now? And these again, these are all questions that we don’t have. The one thing that. You know, I’m going to throw back to you, though, in a little bit, Neil, and not to push back, but, you know, technology is a wonderful thing. We’ve got the ability now to, you know, what’s in the works as we speak, which I did not know until the other day, is there’s now beginning the printing, quote unquote, of certain organs, by the way, where you can print a liver, you can print potentially a kidney and some things along those lines coming right out of the, you know, the cells and the DNA of that particular person themselves where you don’t have the rejection problems at times with organ transplants and so on. And so, again, you look at some of that and is that is that playing God or is that, you know, fixing things that maybe people have made bad choices in their lives? And that’s why they they’re medically where they’re at today. And again, these are questions way beyond my pay grade, Neil, because I am definitely not you do not have your background. I just think it’s fascinating when you see what technology is doing and the more we learn and. I also think that God gives us all the wisdom and the knowledge and the brain capacity to come up with some of these things. At what point in time is too much too much?
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, and I don’t mean to throw cold water on people that by God’s grace have been able to have children because of the use of some form of technology along the line. But I’m also thinking about the fact that Adam and Eve looked at the fruit and what encouraged them to think about defying God’s design to avoid eating that fruit was that it looked good. Like it looked good. And I think some of these things look good, but in the end, the cost benefit is destructive. I mean, just think about all the technology that we hold in our hands with our cellular phones, right? And the ability to connect to the internet, send emails, get text messages, everything in real time. You can do AI on your phone and stuff. It also has led to the detachment of human relationships and increased levels of anxiety and depression and teen suicide. And there’s a cost that comes with it. So I, in one sense, champion progress. On the other hand, I say, let’s be really careful because there’s another side to every single coin. And I think we need to consider that as well. Yeah. Can I comment on that?
SPEAKER 03 :
Go ahead. Jump in. Go ahead. Because I mean, I agree with what you’re saying, Neil. But then I also feel like there’s a caveat that’s got to be put in there. OK, we can’t take technology as far as it can possibly go. There does come a point where we cross the line, I would argue. And I would say genetic manipulation of humanity is getting into that area, certain creating hybrids between humans and animals and such. But as far as the medical technology goes, you know, John, as you asked, are we playing God? It almost seems like any time there’s a new medical technology, you’re going to get a group of people that says, OK, this is too far over the line. I mean, for example, go back, you know, 100, 150 years, life expectancy was like, what, 40 before they had insulin. It was if your pancreas went down, you got diabetes, you’re dead. That’s it. Because there is no insulin for you to be able to get to stay alive. So God decided. So when insulin was created, were we then, quote, playing God? Penicillin. When we started using penicillin, does that mean, oh, well, now we’re playing God because we’re thwarting the natural process of the person’s body dying? Blood transfusions, kidney transplants, I mean, where do we draw the line? So it seems like if we have technology today to be able to allow even children to grow inside the womb, uh i don’t like the disconnected from humanity part of it that’s probably my biggest concern during those nine months i do believe those nine months are important but i don’t think we can automatically say here’s the latest area of medical technology oh now we’re playing god because that person should have been allowed to die that was naturally what would happen if not for this new technology well we’ve been having that new technology for the last century and it’s extended uh our life expectancy so i tend to take a more dare I use the word, liberal approach or passive approach toward new technologies, but always with a watchful, skeptical eye of when it starts crossing the line into manipulating humanity itself. And that’s where I think we need things like discernment from the Holy Spirit and such.
SPEAKER 04 :
Totally. And by the way, Bob just called himself a liberal, but beyond that… You know, with IVF, you get a fertilized egg, right? So you’ve got this conception that occurred. I would argue conception occurs because God allows it to. But when you get 12, you know, fertilized eggs and you implant one, what happens to the other 11?
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. They have a much higher death rate during the freezing and thawing. That’s why I think IVF is only morally acceptable and ethical if you only freeze the number, or I’m sorry, if you don’t freeze any of them, if you only fertilize the number that are going to be implanted. That’s not cost effective, but I would argue that that’s morally ethical.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah. But another example of the ethical arguments that on the back of technology and progress or alleged progress. Yeah.
SPEAKER 02 :
All right. Right. Yeah. No, and I tend, Bob, I tend to be, you know, along the lines that you are as well. I mean, I look at the technology end of things and I mean, it was a great conversation because there are so many ins and outs of this where we could say, okay, so technology allows a respirator to be put on a person and keep them alive at a time when they may not otherwise be able to, to function. And yet they can still come out of that and be fine. At the end of the day, on the same token, we have anesthesia that allows people to now have surgeries and be put under to where those things can be performed, where even 100 years ago, that would not have happened in the same way. I mean, we can go down the list of all the different things we have today. And is any of that, you know, the direction that God wants us to head? And guys, again, these are deep subjects, because for me personally, God gave us a brain, gave us the capacity to come up with these things, be able to figure out how this stuff actually works and what we can actually do. At the end of the day, you know, am I personally going to use that technology to further my life? I want to live. So I absolutely am. Now, this whole artificial womb thing is is outside of some of what I’m talking about, because this is taking the place of a mom in a lot of cases, although albeit in some cases, there are moms that desperately want to have a baby, have tried to have a baby, can’t maybe even carry a baby to full term because of miscarriages and things along those lines. And, and guys, I would be sensitive enough to say that I would not want to deprive a mom of that if there’s another way to make that happen for her.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah. Yeah. And we know a female, a friend of our family that doesn’t have the proper body parts to be able to carry a baby, but she can produce eggs. So there you go. I mean, there’s somebody that might look at that. And I think, honestly, that I’ll admit flat out and I’ll be humble enough to say I don’t have the answer to all these things. But I do think this is an example of where we need to operate in grace and work out our salvation with fear and trembling. humbly going before the Lord for wisdom from above, because I think these things are beyond our understanding, and certainly God’s wisdom is much higher than ours.
SPEAKER 02 :
I had a little bit of an argument with a listener that was listening to me talk about this whole topic, because somebody had said that, you know, they had texted me that as a person, they had a friend that the baby was born from IVF, and they were Catholic, and when they went to do a baptism to the priest, the priest wouldn’t do it because the baby was born that way, and I boldly said, well, that’s utter nonsense. And, you know, that’s just why I’m not a Catholic, because at the end of the day, I think that’s the most stupidest answer I could have ever thought of in my entire life. Now, I got lots of flack from Catholics along those lines being told that, you know, the priest has got the utmost decision making power in that in that in that realm. And you have to rely on what he says and this, that and the other. And my answer back is that’s why I’m not a Catholic.
SPEAKER 04 :
Amen. I mean, you know, I get where you’re coming from on that, and I And I’m not picking on any of our Catholic listeners, especially those who know and love the Lord Jesus Christ. And by the way, may I say that all kinds of Protestants may go to church but not know the Lord Jesus Christ. I just want to make that clear. But, you know, it’s kind of interesting because, you know, in Bob, you’re talking about everybody loves Raymond, right? How many times do they go before that priest, whoever he is? I’m not sure what kind of church it is, but he’s given a marriage and parenting advice, but he’s not married and not a parent, right? I mean, how many times do we see that? And I think it makes the whole thing suspect. I’d rather talk to somebody who’s been in the trenches for a while.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. I tend to agree.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yep. Again, again, I’m not trying to step on anybody’s toes either, but I’ll be straight up honest. It is a reason why I am not a Catholic. I don’t look at things the same way they do. I look at things that, you know, that the Lord, I have a personal relationship with him. I don’t need a priest to tell me what to do or not do. I can read. I can do those things on my own. I can have discernment from the Holy Spirit and so on. I don’t need a priest to tell me what I should or shouldn’t be doing.
SPEAKER 04 :
There’s one mediator between God and man. It’s the man Christ Jesus, meaning each one of us. And that’s what I said before, you know, humbly go before the Lord and ask for his wisdom. And we have the opportunity to talk to him directly because of what Jesus did for us. We don’t need a third party on that.
SPEAKER 02 :
All right. Speaking of technology again, Neil, SunPower LED, great technology. Again, God gave, in this case, Tom, the ability to come up with a light healing therapy that literally does work. And it’s based upon what God already did.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, Tom Kerber is the founder of Kerber Research and Kerber USA. And he’s a genius. He’s the guy that you want on the island with you if you get stranded with Gilligan, because he’s going to find a way off the island. He did not invent light therapy. It existed prior to his involvement with it, actually. But what he did do is make it affordable. He found a way to harness that power, jack it up to unbelievable levels for the sake of effectiveness. And, you know, some some of the units out there are basically like a little laser light pen. This is infinitely stronger than that, but gentle to the human body. These light waves, we can’t even see the most powerful ones with our human eye, just like a dog can hear certain sounds we can’t. But these light waves penetrate our body. They get to the mitochondria in our cells. And and it’s like putting new batteries in your TV remote. All of a sudden it works. Holy cow, this thing works. Well, when the cell starts working properly, it reduces pain and swelling and it promotes healing. So people have experienced all kinds of positive effects from this. And they’re saying they’ve seen an end to, you know, migraine headaches and tinnitus, dizziness, joint pain. situations created by a need for better wound care, especially with diabetics and others that have problems healing after surgery. Light is powerful, and Tom was able to harness it and make the technology available in a product called SunPower LED. It’s a light therapy device. You can learn about it by going to CrawfordMediaGroup.net.
SPEAKER 02 :
and click on sun power led learn all about it there’s videos there and by the way if you buy a unit use the promo code roundtable 10 for automatic 10 savings because you’re a listener to the national crawford roundtable and then of course pre-born bob as we’ve been talking about this whole topic about artificial wombs it really in my opinion just shows that the importance of that that baby from day one in the fact that it is in fact a life it is a baby
SPEAKER 03 :
This is. This is a human life made in the image and likeness of God. And we need to save these babies’ lives from the abortionist’s butcher’s knife. And this can be done, folks, if you’ll just give to pre-born today. It’s that simple. $28 is the average ultrasound expense to stop one abortion, to save one baby’s life. So how many babies’ lives will you save? As you hear me say all the time, take $28 times fill in the blank. Pray about a number. And that’s the number of babies’ lives that you’re literally saving through pre-born. And if you’ve given a pre-born already, would you continue to give to pre-born? Just do it again. Make this part of our missionary budget to save babies’ lives, to protect them from the abortionist. So here’s how you give. Just go to CrawfordMediaGroup.net and click on Preborn. CrawfordMediaGroup.net, click on Preborn. You can give right there. Or they answer the phones 24-7. So just call 833-850-BABY. That’s 833-850-BABY. And mention National Crawford Roundtable when you call, John.
SPEAKER 02 :
And that’s it for today, guys. I appreciate it. Bob, Neil, and myself, thank you all for listening. Again, support our sponsors. It’s extremely important that you do. Let them know that you heard them here at the National Crawford Roundtable. And until next week, this has been the National Crawford Roundtable.
SPEAKER 01 :
You’ve been listening to the National Crawford Roundtable podcast, a view of today’s culture through a biblical lens, brought to you by Preborn, saving babies and souls. Join us in the fight to save babies from abortion. Your gift provides a free ultrasound for a mother in need. 80% of the time she will choose life. Visit CrawfordMediaGroup.net and click on their logo to donate. And by SunPower LED light therapy devices. Bring light to your pain. Visit CrawfordMediaGroup.net and click on the SunPower LED logo to get out of pain and improve your overall wellness. You can download this podcast from Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, and more from your local Crawford Media Group stations website or at CrawfordMediaGroup.net. And please give this podcast a five-star rating on your Apple app. Look for the notification on your app for when the next weekly edition of the National Crawford Roundtable podcast is ready for you to download. This is a Crawford Media Group production.
