In this thought-provoking episode, Liz Franzel welcomes Air Force veteran and acclaimed author Pastor Mike O’Dowd to discuss his latest book, ‘Are We Neglecting a Great Salvation?’ With a keen focus on the message of Hebrews, Pastor Mike challenges common misconceptions and explores the potential pitfalls of ignoring our salvation. This enlightening discussion addresses spiritual immaturity and encourages a renewed commitment to personal growth in Christ. As they dive into the deep waters of faith, Liz and Pastor Mike explore how spiritual drift can hinder our journey towards the likeness of Christ. Addressing both present and eschatological consequences, they
This is Liz Franzel with Crawford Media Group, and today our guest is pastor, award-winning author, and Air Force veteran Mike O’Dowd. We’ll be talking about his new book titled, Are We Neglecting a Great Salvation? Welcome to our program, Pastor Mike.
SPEAKER 02 :
Thank you, Liz, and very happy to be here. Thank you for the invitation.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, we’re happy to have you. Pastor Mike, tell us about your book and what prompted you to write it.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah. The book is an exposition of the book of Hebrews. And it’s a book, as I think you may know, one that is very challenging for believers to understand. And it’s also one that I think is oftentimes misunderstood in a harmful way. because of the many warning passages in the book and the way those passages are taken by some to teach that you can lose your salvation, which I think very much misses the point of the book. The book was really written, if you read it carefully, from a pastoral perspective. And the perspective of a pastor who is watching believers, in particular, in his case, Jewish believers, who were not growing in their faith and were, in essence, as the title suggests, and as he points out in Hebrews chapter 2, they were neglecting the salvation. They were neglecting the life that Christ gave them. And the warning passages aren’t passages that teach that you can lose your salvation, but they are passages that get at, and the book gets at, really the great error, the great spiritual problem and challenge and harm that we can encounter in our life in Christ when we neglect the life that Christ has freely given us and longs to bring to fruition in us to grow unto His likeness in accordance with the gospel. That was the main point, is to get to a right understanding of the message of the book of Hebrews.
SPEAKER 03 :
I like how you say that not only is it a verse-by-verse guide through Hebrews, but you also confront the quiet crisis of spiritual drift. Explain that. That’s an interesting concept.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, it is a, again, when you think about neglect and you think about how that word is used in your life, we neglect things that are valuable. We rarely use the term neglected. if it doesn’t relate to the failure to orient ourselves rightly with something important. And the author’s concern was neglecting our salvation. our life in Christ is all by God’s grace. We are saved by His grace. We grow in this life to become like Christ by His grace. And ultimately, He’s going to finish that work through the promise of a future resurrection unto the likeness of Christ, as John teaches in 1 John 3. It’s all grace. But in our growth in this life, God, not just in the book of Hebrews, but really throughout the New Testament, calls us to be earnest in His grace. Paul gets at that when he says, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it’s God who works in you to will and do according to His pleasure. God calls us to cooperate with Him in His work of making us like His Son. And we can neglect that. And one of the main dangers of that neglect, the author gets to in chapters 5 and 6, when he talks about spiritual immaturity. And the warning passage, I believe, in chapter 6 is a warning about both the present and eternal cost of spiritual immaturity. which he teaches in those two chapters is really our willful neglect of our own walk, to set aside the things that God has given us so that he can work through those things by his Holy Spirit to make us like Christ. Things like the deep study of his word, but also the living of what we know. The corporate fellowship, you know, the later warning in chapter 10, don’t fail to, you know, don’t neglect to assemble together as is the habit of some. all of the ways in which God gives us to grow in this life, if we set that aside, and I think in particular if we get distracted, as Jesus teaches in the parable of the soils, by the cares of this world, by riches, by those things that take us away from him, we are engaging in a neglect of our life in Christ that comes with consequences. And in Hebrews chapter 6, The author of Hebrews makes a pretty daunting statement. He tells them in the middle of chastising them for their spiritual immaturity. He says, let us press on to maturity. And then he gets into a couple of other things but finishes the statement by saying, and this we will do, press on to maturity if God permits. Which indicates that spiritual immaturity and growth out of that to maturity is a work of God’s grace, and at some point He may choose to just withhold that work and leave us where we’re at. And that comes with the consequence of really not living the abundant life that Christ calls us to, which is a vital relationship with Him, because we’re growing to become like Him, and therefore growing to become a more familiar form in the Father’s hand. But there are also eternal consequences to spiritual immaturity. which I think is part of the warning in chapter 6, and Paul mentions in 1 Corinthians as well, that statement that, you know, we’re all going to stand before the judgment seat of Christ, and there are going to be some who are going to be saved, yet as through fire. And part of what troubles me is, and I’ve had some people ask me this, well, Mike, what’s the big deal about spiritual inventory? You know, we’re saved. We are.
SPEAKER 01 :
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 02 :
But do we want to live this life foregoing the blessings of all that God wants to bring in this life in close and vital relationship with him? A, and B, the scriptures do teach about eternal rewards. And I do think the experience of being saved by fire, the way Paul words it, and the author of Hebrews words similarly in chapter 6, is meant to get our attention and to say, listen, this isn’t going to be a pleasant thing. Please, stop. walk closely walk faithfully with christ forego that and and it really bothers me that some christians just kind of see those warnings and they diminish them as go as something along the lines of oh well why would you want to take the priceless gift that god has given us in life in christ and not make of it what he would have us make of it in this life and and whatever you know and and the whole discussion about rewards and eternity is It’s a hard one and a complicated one and a long one, and we’ve only got 15 minutes, so we’re not going to go there. But if God is going to impart to us certain blessings in eternity for being faithful to him in this life, why would I want to forego that?
SPEAKER 03 :
Exactly. And, you know, I wanted to interject because of something you were saying earlier. You know, as far as God goes, as far as giving us blessings, he wants to bless us. He doesn’t want us to live without means or to have more than enough. Like so many people teach, give it all away. If you’re not sacrificing, then God’s not going to be pleased with you. He wants to bless us, but he doesn’t want us to do it without him.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah. In fact, we can’t do it without him. But again, he does call us. to active cooperation with His work, which is why I think Philippians 2, 12 and 13 captures that reality that we are God’s work in progress, but He calls us to work together with Him. And we can set that aside. And one of the things, when I preached through the book of Hebrews a few years back, and one of the things I love about preaching through the book Liz, is it’s all Jesus. From beginning to end, it’s all Christ. As a pastor, if you want your congregation to get just the full dose of Christ, preach through Hebrews. It’s all about Jesus, and one of his favorite words in the book is better. Everything about Jesus is better. He’s better than The great high priest in the old covenant, he’s better than the law. He’s better than Moses. He’s better than the angels who mediated the law. His covenant is better than the old covenant. The life that he gives is better. Jesus is better, is better, is better. And another way to maybe look at the book is, why would I forego what’s better? In fact, one of the titles, chapter 14 of the book is titled, The Best is Always Better. So don’t neglect it. Jesus longs to be in a close relationship with him. He longs for his sheep to hear his voice and follow him. By the way, if you ever go to the Middle East in the land of Israel and you watch shepherds, you’ll notice that a group of shepherds can bring their sheep into a field. And when it’s time for them to go, they all know their shepherd’s voice. And they turn and separately follow him. And I think that’s just a beautiful image. He wants us to be close to him.
SPEAKER 03 :
Exactly. You know, you had said that this book explains how salvation isn’t just about eternal security, but about the life we live now, our faithfulness. our endurance, and the inheritance we are called to walk in today. I wanted to ask you, for our listeners briefly, I know it’s a big subject, but what is salvation not, but what is our inheritance?
SPEAKER 02 :
Our inheritance, which the scriptures teach in Ephesians 1, the Holy Spirit is the down payment. on our inheritance. His presence in our lives and His work of making us new creations is the down payment. The Greek word there is the word we use when we buy a house, earnest money. It’s the guarantee that God is going to finish. He’s going to bring to pass fully what He promises. So our inheritance begins with the reality of the Holy Spirit’s presence in our lives and His work in our lives. But the fullness of our inheritance, and this to me is mind-blowing, is Jesus’ promise to resurrect us into a resurrection in his likeness, to an eternal human life, now fully delivered from sin’s presence and power and penalty forever. Revelation 21, no more tears, no more death, no more sorrow, no more nothing. Our inheritance is that life, but not just that life, because what point would it be if Christ resurrects us to an eternal life in a world that’s just like it is now? Revelation 21 and 22, Romans chapter 8, all teach that God is going to give the universe a makeover. Everything forever new and forever good. And in Revelation 21, the Lord even teaches we’re going to inherit all of these things. And I love to ask my congregation, what are all things? All things, Liz, are all things. God is going to give us a resurrection life to live forever with him in his presence in a universe made forever new and forever good. Can you imagine life? We’re just, A, the corruption within our own souls, and B, the corruption in a fallen world are forever eradicated. I can’t. But I know that he’s good. And as Paul teaches in Ephesians 2, he wants to pour out upon us the riches of his kindness and grace in the ages to come. That thought is mind-boggling. It’s wonderful. That’s our inheritance. And we should live for that now. We should live with a longing for that now.
SPEAKER 03 :
And the thing is, we’re not left here in a fallen world that’s just awful just to live an awful life. God’s doing that now. I love the verse, He’s the God that can do more than we can ever ask or imagine. That is, you know, eternity. But that is here on earth, too. And so it’s not like we’re just doomed while we’re here. And then hopefully someday we’ll be, you know, live in that existence. But, you know, he wants that for us now. And I love what you said earlier. Walking with him will help us along that path because he wants us to succeed. Yeah.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah. And he wants us to begin to get, you know, what Paul calls the first fruits of that experience in eternity. In 1 Corinthians 15, where Paul teaches extensively on the promise of resurrection, you know, he talks about our life now as the first fruits of that eternity. And in a really interesting spot, in the parable of the unjust steward, Jesus teaches believers that in eternity… we will welcome one another into eternal dwellings. And I love to tell my congregation, listen, you’re living out relationships now that even if death comes, won’t interrupt the reality that you’re enjoying relationship now that you’ll enjoy in eternity. You’re sharing the first glimpses, the first fruits of the eternity he promised you now. in your relationship with one another. We get to do eternal things now. It’s a matchless calling. It’s an abundant life.
SPEAKER 03 :
We’re visiting with Pastor Mike O’Dowd, an award-winning author and Air Force veteran, about his new book titled, Are We Neglecting a Great Salvation?, which is a verse-by-verse compilation guiding us through the book of Hebrews. Pastor Mike, where can our listeners find your book?
SPEAKER 02 :
You can find the book on Amazon, on Barnes & Noble, and also from the publisher on their website on Westbow Press. Any one of those places.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, Pastor Mike, thank you so much for joining us today.
SPEAKER 02 :
Thank you, Liz. And you’re awesome, and I really appreciate our time together.
