Barbara Carmack takes the listeners on a compelling journey of understanding redemption beyond worldly perceptions. Together with Kimberly, they discuss complex theological insights, touching on the story of Judas and the profound mercy and grace that Jesus exemplifies. This episode invites reflection on our own shortcomings and the hope that comes from a faith-centered life, embracing a new direction with Freedom Street’s updated website and the introduction of Kimberly’s upcoming podcast, The Voice of Freedom. Enveloped in compassion, wisdom, and advocacy, this episode underscores a deep connection with faith that transcends human flaws.
Welcome to Call to Freedom with Barbara Carmack. This is Jimmy Lakey, and I’m delighted that you are joining us for this half hour. You can reach Call to Freedom at Box 370367, Denver, Colorado, 80237, or by going to the website at www.freedomstreet.org. If you want to leave a message or order a Word Power Daily Reading Bible Guide or a Freedom Street Express newsletter, you can call us toll free at 1-877-917-7256 and leave your name and address, including your zip code. If you want to talk to Barbara right now, she is expecting your call. You may call that same toll-free number, 1-877-917-7256 to speak to her. And now, let’s join Barbara in the studio.
SPEAKER 03 :
I hope you’re in a nice, cool place to listen to Call to Freedom today. And welcome to the program. Kimberly and I are excited to talk about the Lord. And the Lord will open the heavens in the storehouse of his bounty and bless all the work of your hands. It reminds me of that wonderful verse in Psalm 90 written by Moses. And let the favor of the Lord our God be upon you. and do confirm for you the work of your hands you can ask the lord or thank him that’s better not just ask but thank the lord that the work of your hands has eternal values and you’re going to reap a great harvest because the rest of it says it will confirm the work of your hands it will bring permanence to what you are doing today when you thank the lord for him helping you Oh, such a blessing to be with you today. You are blessed to dispense for in him you live and move and have your being. And before Kimberly and I get to going on the teaching, I just want to remind you that the verse for this year for this week, excuse me, is Amos 5 verse 24. Let justice roll down like waters and righteousness like an ever flowing stream. And we think selfishly of ourselves. But listen to the message translation of Amos 5, 23 and 24. This is from the message. I’ve had all I can take of your noisy, egomaniac music. This is the Lord speaking. Oh, this is good. I’m going to say that again. I’ve had all I can take of your noisy, egomaniac music. When was the last time you sang to me? Capital M. Do you know what I want? I want justice. That’s what God is saying. I want justice, oceans of it. I want fairness, rivers of it. And that’s the justice that rolls down like waters and righteousness, like an ever flowing stream. That’s what I want. That’s all I want, says the Lord. So you know that he is looking for absolute justice and fairness in these last days. And really, he’s going to have it. God is God. He’s going to have it. Praise the Lord. Oh, it’s just wonderful to know that God is giving us something that we can hang on to. And Kimberly and I are going to talk about we really don’t know. Anything, Kimberly, about God. We really don’t.
SPEAKER 02 :
In our human form, we see everything in part.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, we do.
SPEAKER 02 :
We cannot see the complete. We just can’t.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes. That’s what I see when I’m thinking of Chris doing our new website. I’m just seeing in part. The new website.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 03 :
And we need to mention that. New website.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes. Yeah, when you go to freedomstreet.org now, you will see something completely different. So we invite you to visit freedomstreet.org and see the new website. It’s beautiful.
SPEAKER 03 :
It really is, and it’s just starting. So don’t think, oh, is that all there is to it? We’re going to have newsletters. We’re going to have the Bible guide. We’re going to have updates. And what’s exciting, and Kimberly, I have to admit to you, for a few moments it was traumatic for me. To think that, okay, all the cassettes, all the masters of the cassettes and all the CDs, they’re going in the trash.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, because we’re going to MP3s and you can download it right from that website.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s right. And if you want to listen to it again, it’s just like our radio shows. You go to a radio show. If you want to listen to that show again, all you do is click that button, that MP3, and off it goes again. You can hear it again. That’s exactly what our CD series is. that you have been ordering over the years are going to be involved in. It’s just MP3 format.
SPEAKER 02 :
They’re being converted. That’s right. They’re being converted. And right now the donation button is not up and running. It will be very soon. And any of you who have given donations over the past five days or so, We’ll check in with you or contact us. Call us at 877-917-7256 and let us know that you did give a donation. We’ll try and get back with you and make sure that that is in place really soon.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, Chris is looking on something that isn’t going to be disclosing all of your information.
SPEAKER 02 :
Make it a lot easier.
SPEAKER 03 :
In your donation, yes. It’s exciting. I was telling Chris yesterday as I talked to him, you have said things that I had in my heart. And the wording on the website is absolutely beautiful and anointed in every way. So I’m excited about the new. We have not had a new web, really a website for 25 years. I know. This is like the first. I know. I wanted to change it when Darren left this earth. And I was just so busy getting used to a brand new format with me coming to the radio station without him that I neglected it. I really did. I neglected that. But this is the time. There’s a time for everything. And this is the time for a new website. And Kimberly, you’re even going to have a podcast soon. called the Voice of Freedom. Voice of Freedom is where they’re going to hear from you. And you have volumes and volumes of thoughts from God and teachings. And I’m just excited about what you’re going to be putting on that blog. Well, thank you for that. Yeah. Thank you. Good. And if you need to contact Kimberly, she’s at Kimberly at Freedom Street dot org. Kimberly, if you want to just go to Kimberly, that is absolutely fine with Mama. I will.
SPEAKER 02 :
I’m in agreement. Thank you for that, too.
SPEAKER 03 :
If you think you can get more answers from Kimberly or more up-to-date contemporary answers from Kimberly, you go to Kimberly at FreedomStreet.org.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, I only see in part. I don’t know that I have answers. But, wow, it is a wonderful thing to just be with you in your requests. in your suffering and in your confusion and knowing that I’ve been there, too, and still I still am in some areas and being able. We were talking about some area and how Jesus had to go to some area because all of us in some area or another are struggling and hurting and hopeless in some area. There’s darkness in some area. And so Jesus had to go to some area. I just love that.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes. It was the capital of Israel during King Ahab’s reign. And it was idolatrous. Yes. They were worshipping any kind of idol, an Asherah, a Baal, and then Jesus many, many centuries later. He comes in and he’s saying, I am the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world for both Jew and Gentile.
SPEAKER 02 :
That’s right. Yes. And so the Samaritans were not necessarily Gentiles. The Jews thought of them that way, but they were still Jewish people. They were half breeds. I don’t know if we can say that. I don’t know.
SPEAKER 03 :
People call them.
SPEAKER 02 :
But I think the point is Jesus came to Samaria to give the good news that we are not going to have to worship in one specific place. We will be able to worship and connect and have relationship with God Almighty in spirit and in truth, not in a temple. That’s right. But in spirit and in truth. And all of us have that made available to us now. That is beautiful. Yes.
SPEAKER 03 :
They that worship the Father. I love what John says here in John 4, 24, that we who worship the Father in spirit and in truth, it’s actually in the Greek, kiss face to face. I love that. That intimacy that God wants with us, Kimberly. And we kind of shy away from it, maybe because of broken relationships here or with failures here. Oh, I can’t. possibly be that close to God and yet when I saw the last little episode of Judas kissing Jesus on the cheek that was probably if you have an enemy it was like a slap in the face of the enemy but Jesus embraced him he embraced the enemy that kissed him and betrayed him because I believe you know Kimberly I’m beginning to feel and think more like you That even after he hanged himself, Jesus in his mercy and grace. Oh, I know we were going to talk about something else and we will get into that today. Well, I think we can just fold right into it. Yeah. Yes. In his mercy and grace can see even the worst of betrayers and the worst of sinners.
SPEAKER 02 :
Right. First Corinthians 15 verse 19. We brought this up yesterday. I find this this scripture just it’s thought provoking to me. It’s thought provoking. It says, if we have hoped in Christ in this life only. See, you were talking about Judas and the decisions that he made, and he was full, so full of regret that he hanged himself.
SPEAKER 03 :
Mm hmm.
SPEAKER 02 :
Oh, regret. So if we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied. The Passion Translation says if the only benefit of our hope in Christ is limited to this life on earth. we deserve to be pitied more than all others. Because if our God cannot give us hope beyond this life, and I’m not trying to rewrite scriptures here. I know traditionally what most Christians have believed all of our lives. We’ve believed that you’ve got to make this decision for Christ before you die. If you don’t make that decision before you die, you’re going to hell. Mm-hmm. And I know there are some scriptures that people can bring up and point out and say, this is why I believe this. I’m finding breadcrumbs all through the Bible. I think I called him that yesterday, too. But I just feel like I’m being led on this journey to find more and more of God’s mercy and his love. The height, the depth, the width, the length of his love, the volume of his love cannot be measured. Yes.
SPEAKER 03 :
There had to be one man who betrayed Jesus. It was prophecy. It was fulfilled. So this man who betrayed Jesus. Was he worthy of a forever death in hell if he was prophesied about in the Old Testament? It’s like when Jesus went down to hell in those three days that he was gone. The most wicked of kings, the most wicked. Ahab, Jezebel, the most wicked women in the Old Testament. When Jesus took captivity captive, he preached to those wicked, evil people. And if they believed in Jesus, who was the Messiah… They were going to heaven with him.
SPEAKER 02 :
If we believe what the word is saying about Jesus, he went to the depths of the darkest places to redeem humanity. Yes. You know, so talking about justice and fairness in Amos five, your memory verse, God wants justice. God wants fairness more than we do. And so when you have had a situation in life that causes you to think, I need justice, I need this to be made fair. I need the scales balanced in my life. When you’re in that place, it’s good to take a deep breath and find out what the Lord wants in that situation.
SPEAKER 03 :
Or if you have a son or daughter or you’re living with a man or woman who are not born again and frustration and anxiety and anger has taken over your life because you don’t see any change in them and you think they’re going to go to hell unless I do something for them or to them. No, no. When you pray, releasing them to the Lord Jesus, to Holy Spirit, who is at work in all of us. Kimberly, when we let go as the main, quote, Holy Spirit on earth here, we are going to show people what the right way is. And a lot of sermons you’ve heard in churches, you don’t do this and you do this, and if you don’t do this, you’re going to hell. A lot of the rules came from the churches we attended.
SPEAKER 02 :
And a lot of those sermons also talk about the bigger sins and the smaller sins. And I have a problem with that. I do. I have a problem with putting any sin on any kind of a scale because you know what caused the fall of man? Eve ate an apple. You were saying that today. It was a little thing, Mom. It was an apple. This was an apple. She didn’t commit murder. You know, she didn’t commit adultery. She did not steal. Well, maybe she stole the apple. No, she had a conversation. It was theirs. Yeah. It was in the garden. In the garden. And they were simply asked not to eat of it. She ate the apple. That does not sound like what people call the bigger sins. But wow, it started the whole fall. Yeah. So if we are going to be really honest with ourselves about Judas and the way that he betrayed Jesus, if we will be honest about every story in the Bible, there’s a little part of us that is capable of betraying. There is a little bit of us, each individual that is capable of stealing, capable of murder, capable. If you’re if you’re going to be honest about your deepest thoughts. and your thought life and the way that you get triggered and the way that you might get angry or irritated or full of hopelessness and despair. There’s a little bit of every single one. Jonah that we were talking about yesterday that did not want salvation for that, that city. And then through a big pity party, Hey, there’s a little bit of Jonah in each one of us. So if we’re willing to be super honest about it, then, um, We might look at ourselves and say, yeah, but I was only thinking it. They walked it out. Do you hear what’s happening? You’re being an advocate for yourself. You’re trying to defend yourself when you’re thinking that way. Justify yourself, your actions. Yes, we have a better advocate. Yes. We have a better advocate. And for those who have sinned, we know that we’ve got an advocate who has a better defense for us than we could ever have for ourselves. Oh, that goes deep. When I think of that, that just makes me emotional because Jesus paid such a heavy price to be our advocate. Isn’t it the John? First John 2.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. Yeah. First one. Yeah. Yeah. Are you there? That love Jesus, the disciple that whom Jesus loved. John. Yes. My little children, I am writing these things to you that you may not sin. Oh, but he makes a he makes a way here. And if anyone sins, we have an advocate. We have an advocate. Holy Spirit in us. The Pericles, the one that comes alongside to help. That’s what advocate means. I think you were talking, we were talking today about the difference between intercessor and advocate.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, I mentioned that yesterday, and I think it’s worth repeating. An intercessor stands between two parties. An advocate doesn’t simply stand in between the two parties, but steps over and joins the one party as he approaches the other. Jesus stepped over and joined us in the dark mess, the chaos, the confusion, the anger, the pride. He stepped over and joined us. Jesus is not only an intercessor, but he is an advocate and he has a better defense for us than we could have for ourselves. Yes.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, and this is so beautiful. Verse 2, he himself is the propitiation. That means he satisfied every sin and need in our life for our sins, not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. We must not judge, friends. We must not judge in any way, shape, or form that this person is going to hell if he’s doing this and that person is going to heaven if he just looks like a good guy. Mm-mm. God judges on such different levels than we do. And he’s the only judge.
SPEAKER 02 :
Oh, he is the only. We can’t see like he sees.
SPEAKER 03 :
No, we cannot.
SPEAKER 02 :
The gospel calls us to leave sin. And in that letter that you’re reading from 1 John, he explicitly says that he wrote this letter so that his readers may not sin. And if that was the sole message of the letter, that would be a valid and appropriate summons for all of us. Right. But it would crush us. How could we not sin? How can we not sin? Right. We’re humans. That’s right. We are not Jesus. We’re, we’re not a hundred percent God and a hundred percent human like Jesus was.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 02 :
And Jesus is the only one who came in was without sin. And then he chose to be the propitiation for our sin. He chose to be in our place and now his righteousness is ours. He has made all things right. So when we are holding tightly to our own idea of what’s right and our own idea of justice and making things fair, we are cutting off what he’s done. We’re making it null and void. We don’t want to void what Jesus has done.
SPEAKER 03 :
It’s like in the slate that I gave at the one o’clock live program. When you think you’re pretty hot stuff, just remember if Jesus hadn’t become the curse and died for you, Where would you be headed? Yes. To a pretty hot place. When you think you’re hot stuff, you’re going to wind up being hot stuff.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah. Oh, no. So the word propitiation is a big word and it simply means turns away the just wrath. Yeah. of the Father toward our sins. He has every right to be angry. And Jesus’ propitiation turns that wrath, turns the anger away.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, even the Father’s anger. He satisfied the Father’s anger and that dividing wall that separated Him from the people He loved.
SPEAKER 02 :
We were talking about Amos, how the book of Amos is a really hard book to read. You picked out a really good memory verse there. Let justice roll down like waters and righteousness as ever flowing streams. Amos, he was seeing these visions of justice. of everything being wiped out of a whole plague of locusts coming and just destroying everything. He saw the vision of that and then he stood and he said, oh, please, we’re too small. We wouldn’t survive that. And the Lord relented and said, okay, I won’t send that plague. Then he sends a fire and And in this vision, in Amos’s vision, he sees fire just consuming everything, burning everything. And he stands before the Lord and says, oh, Lord, please, we’re too small. We can’t survive that. That’s right. And this is Jesus, really, who’s standing there saying, oh, they can’t survive that.
SPEAKER 03 :
Amos came from a rural area. He was a shepherd. So he was alone with the sheep. He knew nothing about the fire. egregious evil that these people were committing in Israel, in Samaria, in Jerusalem. And when he saw it, Kimberly, he was dumbfounded. How could they possibly do this? And I’m thankful the Lord gave him the vision in the first part of Amos, in the first five chapters, of what he was going to do to Israel’s enemies. Boy, he was going to punish Damascus and Gaza. Gaza.
SPEAKER 02 :
gaza is still here gaza ashdod philistines edom the ammonites the moabites but then he got down to judah and uh yeah israel and and before we get to judah and israel let’s just look at those enemies if we’re willing we don’t have all those same countries and names today but each one of them represents a type of sin that we fall into Whether that’s pride or gluttony or greed or envy or anger that turns to rage. Whatever the sin is, these countries represent that. The Lord is saying, I want to wipe out your enemies. I want to wipe out what it is in you that causes you to be separated from me. Yes.
SPEAKER 03 :
Praise God. We were talking about this too, Kimberly. I love you being here with me. We just go on and on and on in the mornings, which reminds me of Darren and me. That’s a compliment. Thank you very much.
SPEAKER 02 :
Thank you.
SPEAKER 03 :
But he’s talking about punishment here to these countries. Punishment is not like a disciplinary or correction thing that goes on between a God and a born-again believer. Now, if you sin, God will discipline you or correct you, and it may be painful but not nearly like punishment. That he was thinking about doing away with these countries.
SPEAKER 02 :
And that’s just it. Our Lord is the only one who can see the difference between the human whom he loves and the sin that has caused the corruption. Yeah. The human has not caused the corruption in his eyes because of what Jesus has done, because Jesus was the propitiation, because he stood in the gap, because he’s the advocate that joins our side and says, oh, please don’t let them go through that. That’s too. That’s too much. They’re too small. They won’t be able to handle that. So Jesus shares with us in our actual experiences, everything, every choice we make, that’s love. It all comes back to love. And when he is loving us so completely with everything in him, that’s when we just want to respond in love. Instead of constantly reacting to the strife and the pressures and stresses of this world and grabbing for those idols, you know, grabbing for those things that we think make us feel better. When that breaks his heart, because we’re not coming to him, we want to stop breaking his heart. We want to realize, oh, my goodness, this love is so deep. I can’t measure this love anymore. I cannot measure the depth or the width or the height or the volume of this love. How do I respond to this? And we respond in trust and in faith, believing that what Jesus did is enough, that his grace is sufficient. And that’s the only qualification that we need is desire. As human beings, we’re going to remain pretty faulty. We’re just weak. But his strength is perfected in our weakness. And his grace is more than enough. And he accomplishes everything that concerns us. We’ll have to continue this some more tomorrow if you don’t kick me out.
SPEAKER 03 :
Nope, nope. No, it’s been so good. And it’s explaining things why the disciples knew that Judas was going to hell. And Jesus is blessing him with mercy and with grace. So think about that. Think about that, friend. Don’t just say, well, that’s what will happen or that that’s going to happen. But look outside the box to the mercy and grace that our Lord Jesus has toward each and every one of us. And that’s excluding the sins that we commit, because John says we’re going to commit sins all the time. But Jesus in his grace and his mercy forgives us. Oh, praise the Lord. Well, you have a blessed day, a blessed evening and take joy.
SPEAKER 1 :
877-917-7256
SPEAKER 01 :
Call to Freedom is a listener-supported radio ministry. Barbara and her power partners invite you to come on board with us and become a network of hands holding up Call to Freedom ministry. Power partners support Call to Freedom with prayer and monthly financial support. You will be blessed supernaturally. We invite you to visit Call to Freedom’s website, www.freedomstreet.org, where you can hear Barbara’s daily radio broadcast 24 hours a day or order materials. You may share your praise reports and heart cries by mailing them to Call to Freedom, Box 370-367, Denver, Colorado, 80237. Or you may email us at barbracarmack at freedomstreet.org. Until next time, remember, Jesus loves you, Barbara loves you, and take joy.
Barbara Carmack takes the listeners on a compelling journey of understanding redemption beyond worldly perceptions. Together with Kimberly, they discuss complex theological insights, touching on the story of Judas and the profound mercy and grace that Jesus exemplifies. This episode invites reflection on our own shortcomings and the hope that comes from a faith-centered life, embracing a new direction with Freedom Street’s updated website and the introduction of Kimberly’s upcoming podcast, The Voice of Freedom. Enveloped in compassion, wisdom, and advocacy, this episode underscores a deep connection with faith that transcends human flaws.
