Join Fred Williams and Doug McBurney on Real Science Radio as they navigate the intricate relationship between science and faith. In this episode, they tackle the misconceptions surrounding scientific theories, particularly the age of the Earth and the evolution theory that inundates our education system. Through engaging dialogues, they challenge the mainstream scientific narratives and emphasize the importance of understanding science through a biblical perspective.
People that think science has all the answers are the people who tend to panic when things start going wrong.
SPEAKER 05 :
Scholars can’t explain it all away. Get ready to be awed by the handiwork of God.
SPEAKER 1 :
Tune in to Real Science Radio.
SPEAKER 05 :
Turn up the Real Science Radio. Keeping it real.
SPEAKER 03 :
Greetings to the brightest audience in the country. Welcome to Real Science Radio. I’m Fred Williams.
SPEAKER 04 :
And I’m Doug McBurney, Bible student, science geek, amateur comedian. Fred, it’s great to be back with you in a brand new year.
SPEAKER 03 :
A brand new year. It’s 2026, so happy new year to everyone. Doug, we’re honored to be on KLTT here in Denver. Oh, that’s right. 1230 p.m. every Friday. And we have reruns on Saturday.
SPEAKER 04 :
Reruns on Saturday for those of you who missed it on Friday. And we’re on, what, 1230? Prime time in radio.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s right. And if you’re watching on YouTube… Welcome to the show, and please do the usual, like and subscribe and share and leave your comments.
SPEAKER 04 :
Only if they’re nice comments. Don’t leave bad comments.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s not necessary. It’s so bad for us. It’s so stressful. We have fragile psyches. Yeah. You know, I really like it when we get the negative comments. I remember some of my—I don’t know if I want to say this, but, you know, Abby at first was kind of taken aback by it. And I was like, Abby, if they’re being negative and hateful towards you, just remember they hated Christ first. You’re doing something right. If everybody’s loving you and what you’re doing and you’re presenting the truth of science like we do— And they’re loving it, and they’re all on board. We’re doing something wrong, Doug, because the world hated Christ first. We’re going up against the world. It’s a big spiritual battle, and we’re glad to be on the radio to fight for the science that supports the Bible, starting with Genesis. And we’ve been doing that for years. It’s been an honor to have the listeners that we’ve had through the years. We’ve got a growing audience. And when a friend says, does science have all the answers? And then they panic and you ask which science, which year, which measurement. I mean, we’re here at Real Science Radio. We’re going to give you the real science, hence the name of our show. There’s a lot of fake science out there, Doug.
SPEAKER 04 :
That’s right. And I’ve noticed, Fred, people that think science has all the answers are are the people who tend to panic when things start going wrong. But those of us who understand that this is all created in order by the living God who has all knowledge, well, we don’t panic. And we follow the science, Fred. We follow the science, and we’ve been following it here on Real Science Radio. I mean, if you go all the way back to when you and Bob started the show, it’s over 10 years now, I think. Oh, actually, it’s been more than… It’s more like 20 now, I think. Oh, my goodness. Well, Fred, don’t say that. Don’t say… It’s been 10 plus something like that. More than a decade. Time flies, Fred. 2026 means I graduated high school 40 years ago. That’s just scary. Oh, yeah, that is. Yeah, good point. But you know what? I’m not going to panic because I remember that in the Bible… God didn’t call Abraham until he was like 75. And then he called Moses when he was 40. And then Moses had to go to the backside of the desert for another 40 years. So it’s all relative, Fred. Oh, and we’re going to get to something on relativity, right?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, yeah, we are. And, you know, Doug, I spent 30 years in the dark as far as science goes because I went to public schools and I was taught that dinosaurs are millions of years old. The Earth is millions and millions and millions of years old. And lo and behold, somebody at work challenged me, and he said, you know, evolution is a proven fact. And I’m like, I didn’t think that was true. I mean, evolution was always so silly to me, but I did buy into the millions and millions of years. So I started looking into it, and I was just shocked at all the stuff that I found out about science that you never hear about anywhere. in the public schools, at the museums, on TV. You’re just inundated with millions and millions of years. And yet the evidence is very much against that. We use secular science on our show probably 90% of the time. We’re using the same science that the secular world discovers. But they put their interpretation on it, one that they want to put on to make you not believe in Genesis. It really is a spiritual warfare. Their big goal is just as long as The earth is more than, you know, even say 200,000 years. Then it disproves Genesis. They’ll do anything they can to get the earth old.
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, and Fred, people may not realize, but back around the time of the Renaissance, that’s pretty much where this all started was, if I’m not mistaken, it was around 20,000 years was the first assertion by the secular left in Europe about the age of the earth. And now it’s, well, I forget, Fred. It’s somewhere in the billions. If I’m not mistaken.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I think they’re at 4.6 billion, but I’m sure they’re going to, you know, they’ll keep adding and subtracting. And, you know, as long as it’s well past, like you said, even 20,000 years makes it hard to fit with Genesis because the genealogies give you roughly 6 to 10,000 years is what theologians who are serious about understanding what the genealogies say will get you. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, Fred, as the lie gets more and more complicated… Well, I shouldn’t say it that way. I guess as the lie gets more and more drawn out, you have to keep adding elements and aspects and alleged facts. And so it just gets bigger and more complicated. And now we’re at the point in history, I hope, Fred… Where this whole idea of evolutionary cosmology is just this giant calliope that I hope is going to soon just collapse of the weight of its own silliness.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. And we’re hoping, you know, with shows like ours and YouTube and whatnot, we’re going to get this truth out. And one of the things we’re going to mention, we’re going to look at the past year, some of our favorite shows and some of the shorts that we did. You know, Nicole did a short that went viral.
SPEAKER 04 :
And so did Abby, yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, and Abigail did one also.
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, Fred, by the way, Fred, one of our viewers did remind me that, you know, the good-looking girls got all the best views. And he said, you two guys. Well, he said, you two guys are great, but you’re not that easy on the eyes.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, when our producer, Dominic, told us that we had to go to YouTube, I told him, come on, man, I got the perfect face for radio. That’s right. But here we are on YouTube and up to, I think, you know, we’re over 73,000 subscribers. So we’ve made some progress in the last couple of years since we went onto YouTube, which is great. But, you know, talking about Nicole and the show you guys did on Gender Insanity. So one of her shorts that went viral, I mean, it had, I think, I think 40,000 views in the very first month that we aired it. And it was on how this crowd mentality. Oh, yeah. It’s so true how if somebody keep telling a lie long enough, people start to believe it. It’s like, oh, that must be true. And so the world just goes along with the science that they’re fed, the so-called science, the fake science. And we’ve seen that through the years. If you’re watching this show and you’re a conservative, you know that that’s the case with things like global warming. Yeah. and so many other things they try to foist on you, yet so many people still believe in millions of years, despite the fact that there’s lots of evidence against it. I want to play that short, by the way, if we can. Yeah, absolutely. Nicole, just so you guys kind of have an idea what we’re talking about. So if you radio listeners, I think you’ll get the context from the audio, but you can always go to our YouTube channel at youtube.com slash at real science radio. That’s right. And for those of you watching on YouTube, now your eyes get a rest. Exactly. Let me find that show really quick, and let’s go ahead and play that.
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In an experiment in the 1950s, social psychologist Solomon Ash, he had a really cool experiment where he had seven actors, seven fake participants, and one real participant in his experiment. And so he drew three lines over here on the chart, and then he’d give his participants a card with another line. And he just asked them, I want you to match this card to the correct line, the same length line that I drew on the chart. For the first few rounds of this experiment, his actors would go and they’d put the card on the correct answer. And then he’d see what his real participant would do and he would pretty much do the same thing. But then over time, he would have his actors purposefully put the card, match it to the incorrect line on the chart. After doing this a couple of times, the real participant was looking around and, you know, he’s like, well, it’s obviously wrong, but everybody’s doing that. So I guess I’ll do it, too. And he would put his card under the wrong answer. After doing this several times, he said on average about one third of participants who were placed in this situation went along and conformed with the clearly incorrect majority on the critical trial.
SPEAKER 03 :
So true, Doug, with what we see with science.
SPEAKER 04 :
That’s right. And before you know it, Adolf Hitler wins the election.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, good point, good point.
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Which he won with about a third of the vote. I mean, I’m just saying.
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I want to look back at some of our favorite shows. Now, that was one of them. You and Nicole were sitting, and I was on assignment. That’s right. When you did that great show on gender and sanity. You know, back in that same month, last January, we had Dr. Rupert Sheldrake on, and I think that was one of my favorite shows of the year. Uh, you know, we’ve had so many great shows and I, I don’t think we had a single bad show last year that I can think of. And I’ve had a lot of favorites, but I, if I had to pick a couple, that’s one, maybe I want to start with. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
Sheldrake was phenomenal.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh yeah. And I like his, what was it called? Interphase. Let’s find it here.
SPEAKER 04 :
Uh, locking international phase lock, not international. Uh, Yeah, it was intellectual, intellectual phase locking. Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER 03 :
Intellectual phase locking. So yes. So what Rupert Sheldrake did just to summarize that, and I encourage our audience, go back and listen to that show or watch that show. He was on the, what’s it called? Ted TV, Ted channel. Yeah. Yeah. They banned him. They banned him from Ted. I think they took it off Ted Channel or Ted TV, and then you can still watch that episode.
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Yeah, you can only get it on shortwave radio now.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. Yeah, CB radio driving across Kansas. That’s it. So… Basically, he dug into historical measurements of the speed of light and found that published values changed over time. So when he asked a metrology expert about it, he was told it was, quote, the most embarrassing incident in metrology. And instead of saying fudge, he preferred the phase. He told Dr. Schubert, it’s called, it’s what this is, intellectual phase locking. Dr. And so basically they tied the speed of light to the meter, the thing that measures it. So you can never, ever detect a change in the speed of light again, because you’re tying it to the very thing that measures it. So if the ruler gets longer, you know, well, the speed of light didn’t change. The length didn’t change, you know, but they’re not going to tell you, well, the ruler got longer. They’re tying it to the meter. So anyways, it was a real interesting show. There’s so much more with that. you know, with like animal intuition and like this information that seems to transcend, you know, what we actually can understand. Yes, yes. Really fascinating show.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, and Fred, whether people agree with Sheldrake or not, he forces viewers and listeners to confront the fact that a lot of what’s called settled science is just a bunch of people settling on just following the crowd.
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Yeah, exactly. Just like Nicole Short gets to.
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, now before we go on, Fred, hold on. Because one of our goals for 2026, it’s the first show of the year. We have to set some goals, you know. So like going to the gym. We want to keep Real Science Radio on KLTT AM 760, the blowtorch for the gospel in the Rocky Mountain West. Yeah. And so you can help us do that by subscribing to the show. You can go on to the website. You can make a donation. You can buy some of our products, which we’re going to get to. We want to do some more products. But we need help to stay on the air, on the terrestrial radio that still reaches a lot of people who would never find us on YouTube. So help us stay on the air on KLTT. The most beneficial thing you can do is to buy the products because they’ll help you. But a second would be to sponsor a show, sponsor a month’s worth of show, sponsor us for a whole year. Send us to the moon. Yes. All right. So help us stay on the air.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yep, and you can go to store.rsr.org. We have a new store, and we’re going to be adding more products to it that you alluded to, Doug. And also, you can help us out with our YouTube channel because we’ve been getting all kinds of positive feedback on what our producers are doing. We’ve got a… couple of video producers who do just a fantastic job. So if you are a radio listener, please give our YouTube channel a view and just see the fantastic stuff and the work that they do for us. And anything you do to help the show also helps our video content. and, you know, producing the best quality stuff that we can get out there to you. And, you know, the video is reaching a lot of people, and that’s why we were pretty much told, hey, you got to start doing a YouTube channel because the number of people you reach. And, you know, we had another short that went viral. You know, Abby did one on an asteroid possibly heading to Earth. Yeah, it’s still heading to Earth. Yeah. Yeah. And, and that video is still heading North in views. It’s up to, let me see here. I think the last time I checked, it was over 330, 340,000 views. So that’s a lot of eyeballs finding out about the hydroplate theory. Yeah. Hey, for our audience, that’s not a really long video. I’d say I want to go ahead and play that one. Let me find it here so that those who are listening and those who haven’t seen it. Yeah, so this thing’s approaching 340,000 views right now. Wow. And it has over 65, almost 66,000 likes. And here it is.
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Oh, now, does it have any unlikes that make Abby feel bad?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, you know, the percent of likes is 99.3. You know, you look at some of our shows, like, for example, Satanist Aaron Rod admits evolution is wrong. That’s a short that’s done really well. We’ve gotten almost 17,000 views on that. That has 63% likes. So there’s been quite a few unlikes on that one because you get the atheist hit on that one.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, but our skin is pretty thick. Abby’s got to feel pretty good about the 99 plus like rate. That’s pretty good.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, that’s really good. And I think that one just because of the title of the short, it’s asteroid approaching earth with a twist. It gets people to click on it and watch. And it’s totally scientifically based, but it pulls in Genesis, the truth of the flood. Let’s listen to that really quick.
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Asteroid 2024, YR4, its chances of hitting Earth in 2032, rising. Scientists are watching it closely. But here’s the twist. NASA had discovered materials on asteroids and comets that are only found on Earth. One of them, Serpentonite, found at the Mid-Oceanic Ridge of all places. A giant crack across the world, like stitches on a baseball. Could this Serpentonite be a remnant from the Fountains of the Great Deep as mentioned in Genesis during the global flood? And if so, could this asteroid, asteroid 2024, YR4, a remnant from a past judgment, be part of a future one? Let me know what you think in the comments.
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, yeah. Capitalize on people’s insatiable appetite to see the end of the world and then throw in some creation, some hydroplate. Just genius, Fred.
SPEAKER 03 :
So speaking of hydroplate theory, we’re going to have Brian Lauer on next week. He’s going to go over a recent hydroplate conference. What was that called, Doug? It was Hydroplate Celebration. Hydroplate Week of Celebration. Yes. Yes. And so Brian’s going to go over the highlights of that. And so we’ll spend more time talking about the hydroplate theory. We definitely advocate for that here on the show. And that’s a good dovetail into our RSR Media part of Real Science Radio. And we’re going to be producing a booklet, and hopefully in the next month or two, we’re which will be something you can hand to homeschool conferences or laypersons on the hydroplate theory, the basics of it. And that’ll be good timing because the ninth edition of Walt Brown’s In the Beginning will be coming out soon, I’ve heard. Doug, it’s going to be really soon. So we’re hoping in, what, the next month also. And so RSR Media is our media arm, and we want to start producing more material, such as a hydroplate booklet, We have other plans on quantum mechanics, special relativity. Maybe we do a booklet on the list of not-so-old things, which is something Bob Inyart started back in the day. Those shows have always been popular. You know, and so many other ideas that we have. And whatever you can do to help, like Doug mentioned, you could sponsor a show, make a donation. There’s a lot of really good ideas we have. We want to do more targeted shorts, more, you know, we take shorts out of our long video form content, and those do pretty well. You know, they do, many of them do really well. But the ones that really seem to stand out are the standalone shorts. So we need to plan on doing more of those this year. And so much in the hopper here, Doug, for Real Science Radio.
SPEAKER 04 :
Lots of good stuff, Fred. Lots of good stuff. And we need your help, so don’t forget that. Don’t make me go off on another tirade asking you for help. Send us large bags of cash or actually just sponsor a show here and there through the year. And if enough people do that, we’ll be able to stay on the radio. We’ll be able to focus on videos. We’ll be able to produce more shorts, which means we reach more people, which means we get their attention so that hopefully we can give them the gospel and help them to, well, just stop following the crowd over the edge of the cliff.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. And, you know, speaking of following the crowd and, you know, the wisdom of the world being foolishness to God, that was really probably the number one reason I had rejected special relativity, because special relativity claims that time is relative. And first, I don’t think that fits the Bible. That’s a whole nother show. But it’s also the wisdom of the world. You know, Einstein was an agnostic at best. The world just loves him. Time Magazine, Man of the Year, all these things. So one of my other favorite shows from 2025 is when we had Dr. Pete Moore on. Oh, yeah. the title of the first show we did with him was, is, was Einstein wrong. Yeah. I wanted to play a brief clip from that because it kind of ties in with Sheldrake too, on the whole speed of light thing with speed of light. Isn’t as constant as we thought. And other, there’s other things, aspects of, how light works and maybe it’s special relativity isn’t the explanation for it. And there’s this whole thing with Mercury’s perihelion. And I wanted to play a brief clip from that show we did back in the summer. And I’d encourage people to go watch that whole thing. It was a really good show. And let me pull that up. And perihelion is the second that proves it. Yeah. Right. I’m glad you’re getting to that because, yeah, definitely there’s going to be questions about this irrefutable evidence of the motion of Mercury’s perihelion.
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What is not well known is… is that an even more accurate prediction has been derived using Newton’s law of gravitation with no modifications. That was done by Dr. Slusher back in 1984. There’s a book on it. I think I might have brought that book if you want to look through it. It’s a lot of mathematics went into it, but it’s all based on this Newton’s law of gravity. And when you do the calculation, it’s even more accurate than Einstein’s. Okay? But here’s something else you don’t know. When you take the Einstein and look at Mercury, you get this nice result. But it produced inaccurate predictions of the other planets’ perhalions. In other words, why did he pick Mercury? Yeah. Yeah. Now we know why. It just, you know, even a clock that’s not running will get the time right twice every 24 hours.
SPEAKER 03 :
So, Doug, again, we did two shows on, you know, special relativity, general relativity, and Einstein. So I encourage the audience to go back and watch those. But that was eye-opening to me. You know, you always hear about the Mercury thing. and how what a great prediction it was. And then you find out the rest of the story that, hey, Sir Isaac Newton, you can use his equations and not have to make time relative to get that stuff to work. Exactly. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
And it reminds me again, Fred, of… Whenever you hear that we know everything about this or that or that the science is settled, just take it with a grain of salt. That’s all.
SPEAKER 03 :
Exactly. So, Doug, did you have any shows in 2025 that really stuck out for you? I know some of the ones we’ve covered, we’ve talked about them off air, and you love the ones we’ve already mentioned.
SPEAKER 04 :
Those were all good shows, yes, indeed. And then I have my list here. Probably my favorite show of the year was our interview with entomologist Tom Dykstra. He talked about agriculture and bugs. Well, he talked about bugs, but then he got into agriculture and just really fascinating stuff. And Fred, I don’t know if you’ve been paying attention to the whole ma-ha. Are you familiar with ma-ha? Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
I don’t think so. No? The moho? Isn’t that a geological structure under the crust?
SPEAKER 04 :
Not the moho, the ma. Anyway, it’s the Make America Healthy Again political with the Kennedy kid. Anyway, so this whole topic of regenerative agriculture that we discussed on the show with Dr. Dykstra, now has a seat at the table with RFK and the other players in Washington, D.C., which that’s just kind of embarrassing right there, Fred, to think that there are people in Washington, D.C. planning on farming. But here we are. And so anyway, that show was a bit prophetic of what would happen kind of with the whole Mahalo. So I really liked that interview with Tom Dykstra, and it’s led to some really interesting conversations off the air. So that’s been really good.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, that was a great show. I remember I was always a little bit skeptical of this whole organic food thing. Is it really that much better? After watching that show, I did start buying more from the organic section, let’s just say. He made a pretty compelling argument. So that was one of our better shows. Definitely encourage people to go back and watch that. Dr. Tom Dykstra.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, definitely go check that out. I also, I love the show with Dwayne Bartley, who kind of brought us back to basics on why creationism exists. is the foundation that we can build on to preach the gospel. And, you know, there’s a reason we tell our kids the stories about Noah’s Ark and Adam and Eve, because it is building a foundation and why that is so important and how it’s under attack. Dwayne’s fantastic.
SPEAKER 03 :
And hopefully we’ll be having him back, too. He’s going to be giving a presentation at a at a large church. So we’re praying that that still happens because I know I had the opportunity to do something similar. And at like two weeks before the presentation, they found out what I was going to talk on and the whole thing got canceled. And this was going to be before like over a thousand people.
SPEAKER 04 :
Wait, wait, at a church?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, yeah, of course.
SPEAKER 04 :
Was it like a church of Scientology or a Christian science church? Was it a mosque? Well, no, the mosque probably would have let you in.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
No, it was, yeah. No kidding. It was, I’d say, probably on the conservative side for churches. Ah, well, the conservatives… There’s a lot of resistance to this, getting this truth out on science.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, the conservative side of evangelicalism, it has slid off into, I mean, pinko communism, frankly. That’s embarrassing. So a guy like Dwayne Bartley gets invited to… a mainstream evangelical church and, and actually, well, I hopefully Dwayne does, but I mean, you have to kind of think about careful what I say. That’s terrible. Yeah. Well, I mean like not, you don’t want to swear or, you know, but to be, have to be careful what you say about creation and telling the truth about Genesis. Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
So we’ll have him on after his appearance and we’ll see how that goes. But yeah, Dwayne was a great guest. We had him in studio and, Yeah. And you know, we have our yearly shows with Daniel Hedrick. Yeah, AI. AI, the latest with AI. And we get some really good feedback from our listeners. And I know one of them, I love every year he sends us A nice gift. And he provides his feedback on what his favorite shows were. And he always does mention Daniel Hedrick’s show on AI. He also mentioned Dwayne’s show and, you know, Sal Cordova, who’s always great too. You know, we’re missing a lot of people that have been fantastic.
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, a bunch, a bunch. In fact, I won’t even have time. Joel Brown from CRS. Yeah, Joel Brown. He made my, well, so my other favorite top three was Royal Truman’s takedown of Professor Dave. It was a review of Professor Dave’s comments and some other people’s comments, I think, about our whole Professor Dave encounter that we had back in 2024. Royal Truman did a fantastic job on Origins.
SPEAKER 03 :
against professor dave and then yeah because professor dave took us on right he had a show he’s a real popular youtube channel a lot of people know who professor dave is if you’re on youtube well he found out about our show and some of our criticisms of him and he did a whole show on real science radio you know we were honored yeah so dr royal truman who actually has a a PhD, and I believe from Michigan State in chemistry. And he’s worked in the industry, you know, for many years. Well, you can’t get a better foremost expert in chemistry. And it was great to have him on. He had lots of challenges for Professor Dave that have never been answered. And we want to try to get Professor Dave, hey, are you going to address any of these points that Dr. Royal Truman made? Or are you going to just, you know, hide behind your desk and your YouTube channel and just hide behind all your atheist friends over there?
SPEAKER 01 :
Stop the tape, stop the tape. Hey, this is Dominic Enyart. We are out of time for today. If you want to hear the rest of this program, go to rsr.org. That’s Real Science Radio, rsr.org.
SPEAKER 05 :
Scholars can’t explain it all away. Get ready to be awed by the handiwork of God.
SPEAKER 1 :
Tune into Real Science Radio. Turn up the Real Science Radio. Keeping it real. That’s what I’m talking about.
