In this engaging episode, join Steve Schwetz and renowned Bible teacher Dr. J. Vernon McGee as they delve into some of the most thought-provoking theological questions. Discover the distinction between paradise and heaven, unpack the intricacies of predestination, and gain a deeper understanding of limited atonement. With insightful answers supported by scriptural references, this episode tackles complex doctrines with clarity and depth. Tune in to also learn about the resurrection of Old Testament saints and what it truly means when the Bible speaks of the creation of Jesus Christ.
It has been said that Christ is the center point of Scripture, with all things pointing to Him. But could it be possible that He’s only one of God’s created beings, and not actually God? Well, stay with us to find out.
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How firm a foundation, ye saints, of the Lord is laid for your faith! What more can he say?
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This is Steve Schwetz, and I’d like to welcome you to another edition of the Question and Answer program with our Bible teacher, Dr. J. Vernon McGee, who for over 30 years answered the questions of his many listeners. This program’s a ministry of the Through the Bible Radio Network. We begin today’s program with a question from a listener in Mattoon, Illinois. She writes, In Luke 23-43, Jesus makes reference to a place he called Paradise. Is Paradise the same as Heaven? Was Jesus saying to the thief he would be going to Heaven?
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I really don’t think so. There was a place that was called, it’s used in the Old Testament and New Testaments, and the place means the place of the dead, where the dead go. And at the time of the death of the Lord Jesus and His resurrection and His ascension, when He went back to heaven, He led captivity captive. I think He took the saved that were in that compartment of paradise. It took them into heaven. And those that were in the other part, and it is actually called a place of torment in the parable that the Lord Jesus gave of the rich man. And that is the place where the lost are. And so you have to make that distinction. And he took paradise to heaven. And I would say that today when a Christian dies, it’s absent from the body and present with the Lord. I believe that that’s the way that we need to look at it.
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We come now to a question from a listener in Lincoln, Nebraska, who asks, Could you please discuss the doctrinal issue of predestination or limited atonement?
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Well, first of all, let me say to you that predestination and limited atonement are not the same thing. No, not even in the same neighborhood. Limited atonement just simply means that Christ did not die for everybody in the world. but that he died for the elect. He died for just those that were to be saved. And that’s the limited atonement, that doctrine that goes around. Now, that’s become very popular. When I say popular, there are a lot of little small groups around over the country that espouse that doctrine. and they have more or less withdrawn into a little sect. They are rather exclusive. It’s just me and my wife and my son John and his wife and us four and no more. That’s the way they operate. And there’s no use preaching the gospel because after all, they’re going to be saved. The elect are going to be saved anyway. And really and truly, there’s nothing quite as deadening as that. And I personally think that it is totally unscriptural. The Bible’s very careful, and the Lord Jesus was. Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel. Evidently, he had a feeling that the Word of God need to be gotten out, and that’s what we should do today. And these folk don’t seem to realize that if somebody in the past hadn’t taken the Word of God out to their ancestors, their fathers and mothers, that they would not be saved today at all, that they would be unsaved and certainly wouldn’t be among the elect. But they don’t seem to worry too much about that. They find great satisfaction in being in a little sect, and not evangelistic at all. And my feeling is that they are entirely wrong. Now, the word predestination gets brought in on this. It’s a big, you know, I used to say 50-cent word, but 50 cents is not very valuable. I wouldn’t even say a dollar word. Maybe I ought to say it’s a gold word because it’s a big word. It’s a long word. And what does it mean by predestination? Predestination has no reference at all to the unsaved. Nobody’s predestined to be lost. Nobody’s predestined to be saved. That’s not the doctrine of predestination. Predestination only refers to the saved people. And what it means is when the Lord Jesus Christ regenerates someone, then He’s going to see them through. He’s going to save them. Now, that is the way in which the term is used. I think probably I ought to turn to one passage of Scripture in this connection. Over in the 8th chapter of Romans at verse 29, and listen to this, it says, “…for whom he did foreknow…” he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover, whom he did predestinate, them he also called, and him he called, them he also justified, and whom he justified, them he also glorified.” So that predestination is a link in the chain of salvation that when a person is saved, that it guarantees that God’s going to get them through. Now, the illustration is a parable that the Lord Jesus gave. It’s a very wonderful parable. In that parable, you remember, it said a man had a hundred sheep, but one of those little hard-headed sheep one of those little church members, he wandered off. He got out, you know, out of the fold. And what happened? Well, did the shepherds say, well, look, we got 99 through, and that’s a pretty good percentage, so we’ll just be satisfied with that and forget about this deacon out there that caused all the trouble. Well, thank God he’s not going to forget about that, deacon. It says that shepherd went out there in the night, in the cold, and that little old sheep had got lost. He found that sheep and put him on his shoulder. I love that. The shoulders, the place of strength. He says he’s able to save them to the uttermost, those who come unto God through him. He’s got a strong shoulder for a hard-headed little sheep. And I love that. I can imagine someday when we get to heaven that he starts counting in the sheep. And he counts out one, two, three, four, five. And he counts you way out yonder in Maine and those of you down there in Florida, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 99, 99. And he starts looking around and he says, well, where in the world is Vernon McGee? And somebody said, well, we haven’t seen him for a long time. And he says, well, a lot of folks didn’t think he’s going to get through anyway, so we’ll forget Vernon McGee, and what we’ll do is just take the 99 in. Friends, may I say to you, thank God that he won’t do it that way. Vernon McGee is going to be there. Why? because Vernon McGee is smart and clever and all that. No, he’s a dummy. He’s a sheep. Sheep are dumb. You know why I’m going to be there? I have a wonderful shepherd, and he said I’d be there. That’s part of predestination. I don’t think it’s a terrible word. I think if you use it right, it’s one of the finest words that we got in the Scripture. And I do hope I’ve been helpful to you about that, and I hope you’re not one of these individuals that’s been caught up in all of this little sect business today. You know, there never has been a time when some people come up with so many novel, new little things, and actually they’re not really new, but they think they’re new in every realm. But frankly, in the realm of religion, it’s become almost ridiculous.
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A Seattle, Washington listener writes, I believe the Old Testament saints will be raised before the New Testament believers. Didn’t Jesus take them to paradise with him after his resurrection? Weren’t Moses and Elijah in their resurrected bodies at the time of the Transfiguration? How would Peter, James, and John recognize them at that time?
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Well, the amazing thing to me is that Peter, James, and John had never seen Moses and Elijah And yet, when they saw them, they immediately knew who they were, that they were Moses and Elijah. And they didn’t get the two mixed up, I don’t think. They had it correctly. So that’s a little sidelight on knowing people in heaven, by the way. I think we’re going to know everybody. We’re going to be one great big family that time. And in fact, we’re in one body today. Then we’re going to be putting one… and our family is so closely knit, it’s called the Bride of Christ. Now, let’s look at the question that this party raises. When the Lord Jesus led the Old Testament saints, to paradise, I do not think that that necessarily means that he’s taking them to heaven at all. I don’t feel that is. And if he did, I don’t think that they were raised from the dead. I assume they were not raised from the dead. That is not the thought that you have at all. Now, you have the Old Testament saints raised at the time after the Great Tribulation. Now, Daniel 12, 1 and 2 make that very clear. that there’ll come a time of trouble, nothing like it before or after. It has to be the Great Tribulation period, unless you could point out another period that’s marked out like that, the Lord Jesus labeled it the Great Tribulation. Now, at the end of that, the Old Testament saints are raised. Now, I think that we can accept that as being the clear-cut statement of Scripture, and that’s the important thing. And we are told that the order of resurrection is Christ, the firstfruits, and afterward, those that are Christ and His coming. And then we’re told that after that will follow, actually, the resurrection for the kingdom. And that is what I understand to be the resurrection. that brings people into the millennial kingdom. Great company. I think of both Jews and Gentiles are to be raised at that time. Now, I think that’s about the best way I think I could answer your question today.
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We come now to a question from a listener in Thomasville, North Carolina, who has family involved in a cult. He writes, Now, my sister and her husband say that this verse speaks about the creation of Jesus Christ. Would you please explain its meaning?
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May I say to you that it’s quite interesting how these cultists will take a verse like that that is so clear that it teaches the very opposite, and yet they want to hang on to it as teaching their particular doctrine. The verse, Revelation 3.14, it’s one of the messages in the last message of the Lord to the seven churches in Asia Minor. And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God. Now, all three of these titles that are given to the Lord Jesus Christ here exalt His deity, because this is the church that is the lukewarm church. The apostate church, if you please, are the one that went into apostasy, turning from the Lord Jesus. So, the three titles that are used are probably as strong titles to insist upon His deity. You take, for instance, the one that is Amen here. Now, that title, and by the way, this is the only place in Scripture which used is a proper name. You see, it’s the way that a prayer ends, Amen. Now this is the final message to the church, and Christ is the one who alone will fulfill all that is spoken concerning the church. And so these three names are used. In other words, the Amen means that He’ll have the final say. He’ll put the final touch. on the history of the church down here. And he is the faithful and true witness. He is the only one who’s faithful. He is the only one who is really the truth. He called himself, I am the way, the truth, and the life. These are titles of deity. Now it would be exceedingly strange that the beginning of the creation of God would be something else other than an exalted title of his deity. And the very fact of the matter is that the beginning of the creation just simply means one thing. He is the one that began it. He is the one that started it. Now, the only way that you can know about these is to find out how else in the book of Revelation. And if you go back to the title that he takes at the beginning, in verses 17 and 18 of chapter 1, John saw the glorified, exalted Christ. And he says, when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead, and he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not, I am the first and the last. I am he that liveth, was dead, behold, I’m alive forevermore. Amen. That’s his title, highest title I think that he had. He is the amen. He’ll bring an end to time. He’ll bring an end to everything. He’s the bottom line to this world, to life, and to everything, and what it’s all about. He is the bottom line. He is the amen. But he’s also back under at the beginning. And when it says he’s the beginning of the creation of God, it doesn’t mean that he was begun. It means he’s the one that began the whole business. He started it, and he’s going to end it. And you have that back in the Psalms. God says there, “…from everlasting to everlasting thou art God.” And the Hebrew is quite vivid there. It means from the vanishing point to the vanishing point, from that which is the beginning, that which is the end, that which is the amen. He is the beginning of creation. He started the whole business. You see, Henry Ford is the beginning of the Ford automobile. He made the first one. He is the creator of it. He’s the maker of it. He’s the beginner of it. And the Lord Jesus Christ is the beginner of everything. He started the ball rolling and He put a few balls out there in space, by the way, that He’s been juggling now for a long, long time. and He’s the one who’s going to end it. He is the beginning, He is the Amen, and He’s the beginning of creation. Now, instead of teaching that He’s a creature, It is one that teaches he is the Creator. And you can’t have higher titles than these others. It’s interesting that these occultists don’t worry about the other two titles that are given to him there, because they are all exalted titles. And then you have that same thing in Colossians, the first chapter, where it speaks of him at that particular time as being the beginning. I probably ought to go back to that because that’s another verse that they toy around with and pay attention to just one or two things. I’m going to Colossians, the first chapter. It says, “…who is the image of the invisible God.” That is, he is the one that is the incarnation of God, because he is God, you see. He’s the image of the invisible God. He is the firstborn of every creature. That is, he is the one that brought this thing into existence. He gave it its birth. And by Him were all things created. Now that explains all of this. That are in heaven, that are in earth, visible, invisible. Whatever is created, whether you can see it or not, He made it. And these very places where they go in and try to get something that will sustain a theory, That’s generally the place where you have the strongest statements concerning the deity of Christ. And so, may I say to you, I’m rather glad they used that because it gave us a chance to talk about the deity of Christ which is taught in this passage of Scripture. And may I add this, I don’t think your brother-in-law and your sister will be convinced by this type of an argument at all. It’s quite interesting today that when you get set in a certain belief, everything has to conform to that belief. And if it doesn’t do it easily, they don’t hesitate to bend it to make it conform to it. And it does lead sometime to some ridiculous understandings, you have no right really to form an estimate of the Lord Jesus Christ on just one statement, because so much is said about Him. Literally hundreds of titles are given to Him, and each one just gives one facet of His many-sided person, and He is the unique person in the history of the universe.
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Almost without fail, questions arise about apparent contradictions in Scripture. Such is the case with this listener. She says, Could you please explain why, in 1 Corinthians 8, Paul’s teaching about eating of things offered to idols seems to differ with the attitude of God about this practice as indicated in Revelation 2.14 and 2.20?
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All right, without turning to what Paul said, let’s look at your passage in Revelation, and I’ll only turn to one of those. Why not try Revelation 2.20? I’m reading it. Notwithstanding, I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants, to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. Now, the custom in Paul’s day and John’s day, and they found it prevalent throughout the entire Roman Empire, that to the idols in that day, and there were many of them, sacrifices of animals were made. And in Corinth, if you’ve ever been there, And I hope you’ll have an opportunity to visit there and see the ruins. You’ll see many temples around. There is almost intact a temple of Apollo. That was the favorite god of the Romans, and it’s in many cities. In fact, every Roman city would have that. And sacrifices were offered, that is, of animals. And what actually they did, the pagans in that day were pretty enterprising sort of folk. They would take a sacrifice, a very fine animal, by the way, for instance, they would take a steer and they would offer that steer and they would put it on the altar. Now, they do not leave that on the altar a long time. Just during the time of the period of the worship period, After that, they’re very enterprising. They pull that sacrifice off the altar because actually the God that they’re worshiping is supposed to have eaten the coo of the sacrifice. That is, he got his part out of it some way or another, spiritual, I suppose. Now, they take the sacrifice off and they have a butcher shop there. And so they put that on sale. Now, if you go down to the butcher shops in Corinth, you don’t get the best meat down there. You get, you know, maybe a pretty tough round steak. You don’t get the filet mignons down there because that which was offered to idols is now up yonder on sale at the Temple of Apollo. And you can buy filet mignons for the same price that you pay for a round steak. So they go up there and buy the filet mignon. That’s a pretty nice way of doing it, you see. And that’s the way that they did. So what happened was that Paul in the 8th chapter of 1 Corinthians is saying, when you go in to visit a person, don’t make an issue of the meat. The chances are when he serves you a nice filet mignon, you eat it. without asking any questions whatsoever. Because whether you eat meat or don’t eat meat makes no difference. Meat won’t commend you to God. So that in trying to win the heathen, the pagan, why you are doing that sort of thing. Now, what he’s talking about in the book of Revelation is you are entering into that part of the worship of the heathen gods by taking the sacrifice and eating it. You know what you’re doing there. It’s part of the worship, and you’re entering into part of the worship. I trust that answers your question.
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Do you have questions about life and faith? Well, Dr. McGee may no longer be with us to answer your questions personally, but we do have a paperback book called Questions and Answers, biblical answers to your questions about faith and life. In the book, you’ll find a number of Dr. McGee’s biblical responses on topics ranging from doctrinal issues to social concerns. Dr. McGee believed that the Scriptures contain the principles for living that, when followed, could answer all of life’s questions and problems. If you aren’t searching this treasure trove of information, then we encourage you to join us every Monday through Friday during the Through the Bible radio program heard on this station. We provide notes and outlines for each study, and they’re also available as a free download online, or you can be added to our mailing list. which also includes our monthly newsletter by calling, writing, or using our internet order form. To place an order for the Questions and Answers book or to be placed on the mailing list, just give us a call at 1-800-65-BIBLE. You can reach one of our staff members when you call Monday through Thursday from 6 a.m. to 3 p.m. Pacific Time. Online ordering is also available when you visit us at ttb.org, which is also where you can go to get the free downloads. For those who would prefer to write, send your letters to Questions and Answers. For those in the U.S., Box 7100, Pasadena, California, 91109. Or in Canada, Box 25325, London, Ontario, N6C 6B1. Because our God is faithful and true, we pray that He will answer all your questions and solve all your problems.
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