How does God minister to us in our darkest moments? On today’s edition of Family Talk, Dr. James Dobson welcomes Anne Graham Lotz, daughter of Billy Graham and a beloved author and speaker. She discusses how the Holy Spirit sustained her through widowhood and cancer as she shares insights from her book, Jesus in Me. To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/707/29
00:00:00 Introduction to Family Talk and Anne Graham Lotz
Welcome everyone to Family Talk. It’s a ministry of the James Dobson Family Institute supported by listeners just like you. I’m Dr. James Dobson and I’m thrilled that you’ve joined us.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, welcome to Family Talk, the broadcast ministry of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute. I’m Roger Marsh. And on today’s program, we’re going to revisit a classic conversation Dr. Dobson had with Anne Graham Lotz. Now, Anne Graham Lotz is a woman of faith who really needs no introduction. But in case you’re wondering, she is one of the daughters of the late evangelist Billy Graham and has been named one of the five most influential evangelists of her generation. That’s according to The New York Times. And they actually got that one right. Through her Just Give Me Jesus revivals, she touched hundreds of thousands of lives all over the world. And her books, like The Daniel Prayer and Wounded by God’s People, have helped countless readers deepen their walk with God. Now, life hasn’t been so easy for Anne in recent years. Back in 2015, she lost her beloved husband, Danny, after nearly 50 years of marriage. Then, in 2018, her father passed away. Soon afterwards, she faced a battle with breast cancer that required surgery, chemotherapy, and radiation. But through it all, Anne Graham Lotz discovered something beautiful, a deeper relationship with the Holy Spirit, which she describes as Jesus in me in her book by that same title. In this classic conversation, Anne will share how God’s presence carried her through these valleys. Her story will encourage anyone facing loneliness, grief, or illness. So here now is Dr. James Dobson to further introduce today’s guest.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, welcome, everyone, to this edition of Family Talk, which is a ministry of James Dobson Family Institute. I am James Dobson, and we’re going to talk today to one of the most highly respected Christian women in America. And Shirley and I love her. Her name is Anne Graham Lotz, the daughter of the late evangelist Billy Graham. I also had such love and respect for him. And her mother was, of course, Ruth Graham, and she’s also gone on to be with the Lord. Ann is with me by telephone today because she has her own illness to deal with and she’s not able to travel at this time, but I’m delighted to have her here. Ann, I can’t tell you how much we love and appreciate you and especially grateful for your joining us today.
SPEAKER 03 :
Thank you, Dr. Dobson. I love talking to you anytime, anyplace. And I’ve had my last infusion, so I’m raising my hallelujahs and so thankful that so much of this past year is behind me. Praise God.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, it’s not just your physical illness. You lost your husband, Danny, in 2015, I believe.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s right.
SPEAKER 02 :
You would have been married for 50 years in 2016. Yes. And I’m sure that’s been a difficult time. You wrote a letter yesterday, or at least we received it yesterday, which is not a personal letter, but it has a lot of personal information in it. And the first paragraph reads like this. Over the past two years, loneliness has knocked on my door. After 49 years of marriage, I had just begun adjusting to the new normal of widowhood when my beloved father moved to heaven. Six months after his funeral, I was diagnosed with breast cancer. The resulting surgery, chemotherapy, and radiation meant months at home, sidelined from ministry. Only a sovereign God could have arranged my life’s events to coincide with the writing of a new book on the subject, Jesus and Me. In this difficult season, I have truly experienced a very fresh, personal way of constant companionship. And your book is about that, and that’s what we want to talk about. But, Ann, I’ve had 10 female members of my family who have lost their husbands and have been through widowhood, and I’ve watched that up close and personal. That is a difficult journey, isn’t it?
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, it is, Dr. Dobson, and yet, you know, I look back on the last four years, so living as a widow and then without my father, so I’m a widow, I’m an orphan, and then to go through the breast cancer situation. You know, that whole journey. And and, you know, the Lord has just taken me up. I look back and what stands out is not the pain and the grief and the suffering, but the blessings of God. And he has just balanced the pain. I don’t know how to describe it, except that it’s one of the wonderful things. ministries of the Holy Spirit, that He comforts us and He helps us and He guides us and He stands right by us to help us when we, you know, in an emergency or just a sudden need. And I have experienced that. I’ve never lost my peace. He’s given me blessing after blessing. I’ve had joy. So it’s been difficult, but… But His strength has been sufficient for every single moment of every single day. And I’m not saying there haven’t been hard times because, you know, I’d be less than honest if I didn’t say there are hard times. But God is there for that. And so, you know, I just praise Him for seeing me through. And I will never get over missing my husband, never get over missing my father. But I have so many wonderful memories, you know, just… So I thank God for the memories. I thank God for those two men who were godly men and were, you know, I adored both of them. They’re a different relationship with each one, but, you know, they were wonderful. And then to be without them, the Holy Spirit has just taken up that slack. So I’m very grateful to the ministry of the Holy Spirit in my life.
SPEAKER 02 :
People didn’t know Danny like they knew your father, but he was a good godly man, wasn’t he?
SPEAKER 03 :
He was great. He was strong. He was a man’s man. He was a leader.
SPEAKER 02 :
Absolutely.
SPEAKER 03 :
So he left a big vacuum when he left.
SPEAKER 02 :
And where did you get the strength and the presence of mind to write a book in the midst of all of this that was going on in your life?
SPEAKER 03 :
I feel like it has to come from the Holy Spirit. And it was after my husband went to heaven. And I just, because that loneliness did knock at my door. And I had God surrounded me with family and friends and prayers of people. But there’s still times, you know, when nobody’s there and you are aware of that kind of loneliness. And so I just began to do a word study on widows. And then I began, I felt like the Lord just put on my heart to study more about the Holy Spirit. And it became sort of a burden that I began to study about it. And then I wrote it down and then I felt like it should be the next book. And so, you know, I wrote it down and I had finished the main manuscript already. before I was diagnosed with breast cancer. But then when I was diagnosed, I had to rewrite, as you know, when you do a book, you know, there’s a lot of rewriting, editing, and it just became alive to me. So I had the basic, the foundation of the manuscript, but it was after that breast cancer diagnosis that it just came alive. And one of the wonderful things, Dr. Dobson, is at the moment, you might not recognize the Holy Spirit, but looking back, I could see, oh, you know, that was the Holy Spirit. He brought this person to me and he You know, that person wrote that letter or that email or that text. And you just begin to see that he has surrounded me with himself and he works through people. I came out of that with just a renewed commitment to be the kind of person that he can work through in the lives of other people.
SPEAKER 02 :
You say in this book that you didn’t learn much about the Holy Spirit when you were growing up in a strong Christian household. How could that be?
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, I don’t know. I was raised in a Presbyterian church. My parents and grandparents, they loved the Lord. They loved Jesus. They obeyed Jesus. They believed. proclaimed Jesus. They studied their Bible. They taught me to love my Bible and to pray and get answers to prayer. But for some reason, I cannot remember ever being taught about the Holy Spirit. And in the Presbyterian church that I was raised in, you know, at the benediction, they say, in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, actually. He He was the Holy Ghost when I was growing up. And when somebody gets married, you know, they pronounce a man and wife in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost or when you’re baptized. And and ghost is a little bit off putting for a little girl. You know, so I just didn’t never really thought about the Holy Spirit. He was like a P.S. You know, like you have the wonderful father and Jesus. But the Holy Spirit is like attack on an add on that I didn’t exactly know.
SPEAKER 02 :
You know, I didn’t either. I grew up in a pastor’s home, and I learned to pray before I learned to talk because I was imitating the sounds of prayer that my parents made. And yet I didn’t know a lot about the Holy Spirit. When I pray, I pray to Jesus with reference to God, but I don’t often say, Dear Holy Spirit, I’m approaching you today on my knees. I don’t think many people in the church, even those deeply committed to Scripture and to what it tells us about salvation, I don’t think many of us really understand who the personhood of the Holy Spirit is.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s right. He is God. And Jesus said, it’s better if I go away because if I go away, I’m going to send you the Holy Spirit who will come to live in you. And that’s a paraphrase. But I thought, what could be better than Jesus being visibly present with me? But he was saying it’s better for him not to be visibly present and have the Holy Spirit in him. and invisibly present because the Holy Spirit would not just be with us, He would come to live in us. And so the Holy Spirit is actually Jesus in me. And when I was a little girl, Dr. Dobson, I can’t remember the year, but I was eight or nine years of age, and I’d seen a picture about Jesus on TV and felt very convicted of my sin. And I got on my knees beside my bed, and I told God I was sorry, and I asked Him to forgive me and to come into my heart. And I believe Jesus answered that prayer and came into my heart. But But Jesus actually technically didn’t come into my heart because he lives in a man’s body up in heaven. He’s getting ready to come back and rule the world soon. But he came into me in the person of the Holy Spirit. So even though we don’t know his name and even though we may not be familiar with the Holy Spirit, if we’ve invited Jesus to come into our hearts, he comes in in the person of the Holy Spirit. And the Bible says he will never leave us and he’ll never forsake us.
SPEAKER 02 :
Tell me why you titled your book Jesus in Me and not Holy Spirit in Me.
SPEAKER 03 :
Because I feel like Jesus is more familiar. You know, the Holy Spirit is Jesus in Me. And the subtitle is really my aim for the book, which is to experience the Holy Spirit as a constant companion. And so having Jesus on the inside, you know, if Jesus was with me, I walk out of this room and I go into the yard, then he’s no longer with me. I’ll leave him in the room, you know, so I would be without him. But when Jesus is in me, in the person of the Holy Spirit, wherever I go, he goes. He lives inside of me. I’m never separated from him. And so Jesus in me, all that Jesus is, just as Jesus was the exact representation of the Father, the Holy Spirit is the exact representation of Jesus. And the Holy Spirit is equal, as you pointed out. He is God. He’s a distinct person in himself. But He’s all that Jesus is in His mind, His will, His emotions, and He’s available in spirit form. He’s the Holy Spirit to come inside of us. It’s a miracle. And the Bible says when He does, we become a new creation. Because on the inside of us, I now have two people. I have… And Graham, you know, I was born as a Graham. And then I have the Holy Spirit who is Jesus living inside of me, a new creation. And the secret of the Christian life actually is learning how to live out your life in that new creation.
SPEAKER 02 :
You made reference in your letter that I just read to. The loneliness that you’ve experienced through these losses, did the Holy Spirit comfort you during that time? Did you feel Him? Were you aware of His presence?
SPEAKER 03 :
I was aware of His presence, Dr. Dobson, every day, every moment of every day. I cannot tell you. From the moment I found my husband, because I found him unresponsive in our pool, and and I had to call EMS, and there were, because of my phone call to 911, I had helicopters circling overhead. I had people lining up in the street to peer into the yard. It was just, it was, and yet my son-in-law quickly came, put his arms around me. My children met me at the hospital. The doctor was there to give me a hug and took my husband to ICU. People were so caring, and And then from when we disconnected him and he went on to heaven, we were reading scripture to him and singing to him and praying while he moved to heaven. And then the Lord just helped me through all of those, as you would know, funeral arrangements and things that you have to go through that are so daunting and overwhelming. And it was almost smooth. And it was a celebration of my husband’s life and the legacy that he left behind. Yes. And it was a joy. And God gave me strength for all of it. And my daughter, my youngest daughter, stayed with me during that time. And then the day my husband went to heaven, my older daughter and her husband, they had sold their house. They were living in a hotel because their rental place had fallen through. And they asked if they could come live with me. So they lived with me for 16 months. So the first 16 months of being a widow, I was never alone in my house. You know, I never came home at night and found nobody there. And And I won’t go into the circumstances of my daughter’s situation, but it was a miracle. And we all stand amazed at the timing of God and the way he knows in advance what’s going to happen. And he prepares you for it. You know, he arranges circumstances knowing what will carry you through. So I never sank deep down into depression, you know. I felt ministered to. I felt loved. Every devotional we had, we focused on the blessings of God. And it was a very precious time. I look back on that, and it was so precious. We never had a crossword, never attention. And then after 16 months, they felt they needed to move out, and it was time. So, you know, God blessed me through people. My son and my other daughter also were very present. In fact, in my cancer journey, my two daughters were with me every single trip to chemotherapy except for one when my younger daughter couldn’t go. And my older daughter went with me every day to radiation, which was daily for a month, and did it with joy, you know. Yes. So my daughter today actually said it was fun, you know. Uh-huh. So just meeting people and having those little divine appointments and being able to comfort other people with the comfort that God has comforted us with has been a blessing.
SPEAKER 02 :
You know, Ann, I can just envision the people listening to us who are widows. There must be thousands and tens of thousands of them. And they’re identifying with what you’re saying today and will draw comfort from this book. But it’s amazing to me how many places in the Scripture talk about how God loves and cares for the widow and the fatherless child. It’s in the Scripture many times, isn’t it? He’s very tender. To the women who have lost their husbands.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes. And so after my husband went to heaven, one of the things I did was do a word study on widows and all the promises that God gives to widows. And it really is precious. So the Lord has special promises for widows and for orphans or the fatherless. And so I’ve claimed every single one. And I just encourage any widow that’s listening or widower to do the same thing, you know, just to study and see what God’s Word has to say and then claim those promises for yourself.
SPEAKER 02 :
I know they would be encouraged by that. The Holy Spirit is referred to in the Scripture as the heavenly paraclete. That means, as I understand it, one who comes alongside of. Is that your understanding of that word?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, you know, he’s a helper. In fact, it’s wonderful in the Amplified Version. It takes the word comforter or counselor that is in some versions, and it gives it seven alternate translations. So he’s comforter, he’s counselor, he’s the advocate, he’s the intercessor, he’s the standby. You know, and there’s so many different aspects of his name that flesh out his character because names in Scripture reveal character. So Jesus was named Jesus because it means he will save us from our sins. He’s the deliverer. And we think of Peter, you know, who was Simon, what meant wishy-washy and compulsive. But he was changed to Peter because he would be so strong in his faith, he would be a rock and strengthen others. So the names of the Holy Spirit reveal something about his character, who he is. And he’s wonderful. So Paraclete would be one and the helper. And he has helped me. So many, many times that it’s almost hard to single out one time that it just stands out in my mind when my husband left and it was such an emergency. In fact, that could be also when I could say he was the standby because crises don’t catch him by surprise. So he knew that was going to happen. And so just at that moment, you can lean hard on him. You just rest in him. And at that moment, he gives wisdom and strength and peace and And it doesn’t mean they’re not tears. It doesn’t mean there’s not grief. And I don’t mean to make light of that. But somehow his help and his strength and the peace that he gives over, for me anyway, balanced the grief and the pain.
SPEAKER 02 :
And I wonder if there were times when you found yourself on your knees saying, Lord, this is almost too heavy to bear. Would you help me carry it? that this pain, this loss, this sense of emptiness when a loved one goes on to heaven is a tough road to walk. Will you walk with me? Put your arms around me and comfort me. Do you pray that kind of prayer?
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, I did, and I don’t remember specifically a time during the widowhood, but during this cancer journey, I can tell you after my fifth chemotherapy, I had such strong reaction to it and such terrible side effects that I prayed that prayer. And the doctor had not ever – and she’s head of the breast care center at the University of North Carolina, and she had never seen this reaction to that kind of chemo. It was very bizarre, and it was drastic. And so I wanted out. I told God I just couldn’t do this anymore, and I wasn’t even sure I wanted to live that bad to go through that. And the Lord just – Clearly revealed to me, I believe in my spirit that he had healed me. And so I told him I believed it. But I said, I want you to speak to me through your word, because, you know, you can have feelings and impressions and they can be dead wrong. And but when he speaks to me through his word, then I have something to hang on to. And So I went to sleep, and the next morning I was asking him to speak to me through his word. And my daughter, my youngest daughter, Rachel Ruth, came, and she was sharing with me what she was going to teach in her Bible study that morning. And it was 2 Kings 5 when Naaman, the Syrian general, came to Elisha, and he had leprosy. And Elisha told him if he’d go dip in the Jordan River seven times, he would be healed. And Naaman didn’t want to do that because the Jordan River was dirty and muddy, and he said they had better rivers than Syria. But he did. And when he dipped the seventh time, he came up and his skin was like that of a baby. He was healed of his leprosy. And it just, it’s like the lights went on because, in my mind, because I had two more sessions of chemotherapy to go. And I felt like God was speaking to me through his words saying, Ann, I know you don’t want to go through the chemotherapy, but you go through the seven times and you’re going to come up clean. And so I finished out the chemotherapy and I finished out the radiation because I felt God also told me to do what the doctors told me to do. So I wanted to be obedient to them. And and so now all that chemo is behind me. And I’m just, you know, I praise God. I believe I’m healed. But that that was a prayer of desperation. And I remember that that will stand out in my mind forever. You know, because it was one of those bottom of the pit experiences. But the Lord pulled me up and he pulled me up just not only speaking to my spirit, but speaking to me through his word. And so I just go in confidence that I’m going to be okay. And to be honest, Dr. Dobson, for people who are listening and they don’t have a physical healing, there’s a greater healing than the physical and it’s the resurrection. So if he wants to take me to glory, I’m so fine. My brother-in-law… You knew my other brother-in-law, John, but I had a brother-in-law, Denton, who was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer the same time I was diagnosed with breast cancer. And he went to glory. He’s already in heaven. But he told me, he said, Ann, you and I are in a win-win situation because if we die, we’re going to go to heaven. And if we live, we have more time to serve the Lord. So you can’t lose out either way. Yeah. So I’ve sort of handled life loosely, to be honest. If I had children or babies, you know, little children or babies, I wouldn’t feel that way. But I don’t. I’m old enough now. If the Lord wants to take me home, I’m ready. If he wants to leave me here, then I want to serve him the best as I can the time that I have left.
SPEAKER 02 :
You are a wonderful blessing to us. Are you regaining your strength? Is your vitality returning? Yes.
SPEAKER 03 :
It’s slow, but I’m working on it. So I walk two miles every day, a mile in the morning, a mile at night. I’m trying to eat, you know, the way I should. And so that’s been the most discouraging thing, I think, is that I can’t bounce back. But everybody, all the medical personnel tell me it just takes time. So I don’t want to become impatient with myself, but it’s hard not to be.
SPEAKER 02 :
And this 30-minute discussion has gone by so quickly. You’ve been a blessing to me and I know to others. But I haven’t finished the questions I wanted to ask you. If you can stay on the phone, we’ll say goodbye to our listening audience and we’ll pick them up tomorrow. Is that okay with you?
SPEAKER 03 :
I would love to. I’ve got a few more minutes and I would love to talk to you.
SPEAKER 02 :
All right. Blessings to you.
SPEAKER 01 :
Even in our deepest valleys of loss and illness, the Holy Spirit is our constant companion. You’ve been listening to a special edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, featuring Dr. Dobson’s classic conversation with author, speaker, and evangelist, Anne Graham Lotz. Now, if you’d like to hear this program again or share it with someone who needs encouragement, go to drjamesdobson.org forward slash family talk. And once you’re there, you’ll also find a link that we have for Ann’s book called Jesus in Me. Again, that’s drjamesdobson.org forward slash family talk. You know, for the last 15 years, the James Dobson Family Institute has been privileged to bring you conversations like today’s, messages that strengthen marriages, guide parents, and point hearts toward Christ. This ministry exists because friends like you recognize the importance of equipping families with truth and encouragement. So keep in mind, you can make a secure donation to support us online at drjamesdobson.org. And while you’re online with us, remember, this is a milestone year for us here at the JDFI. It’s our 15th anniversary, and we would love to hear how Dr. Dobson has impacted your life or family. Your meaningful memory will be a gift as we celebrate God’s faithfulness through this ministry. Now, when you go online to drjamesdobson.org, on the landing page, you’ll find a place for you to make a donation, but also to share your story. So go to drjamesdobson.org. That’s drjamesdobson.org. You can also call us at 877-732-6825. That’s 877-732-6825. Well, I’m Roger Marsh. So grateful you’ve joined us today. On behalf of Dr. James Dobson and the entire staff here at the JDFI, thanks for listening. And be sure to join us again next time when we’ll hear the conclusion of this inspiring conversation featuring Anne Graham Lotz, sharing more about experiencing the Holy Spirit as our advocate in times of injustice. That’s coming up right here on the next edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, the voice you trust for the family you love.
SPEAKER 03 :
This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.
