Has your marriage been feeling more like work than joy? On today’s edition of Family Talk, Roger Marsh welcomes author Arlene Pellicane to discuss four simple decisions that can transform your relationship. From serving your spouse to taking fun seriously, Arlene shares practical ways to make marriage easier, not harder. Discover how small daily choices can bring back the spark and strengthen your bond. To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/707/29
Well, hello, everyone. I’m James Dobson, and you’re listening to Family Talk, a listener-supported ministry. In fact, thank you so much for being part of that support for James Dobson Family Institute. Well, hello and welcome to Family Talk, the broadcast division of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute. I’m Roger Marsh, jumping into the co-host seat today. You know, in Genesis 2, verse 18, we read these words. The Lord God said, And then further on down a couple of verses later, Genesis chapter two, verse 24, we read, this is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife and they become one flesh. We know that marriage is foundational to the Lord and represents his love for us and the church and the body of Christ. But if you look around at our culture today, the idea of marriage is being attacked literally from all sides. It’s being seen as a throwaway or something that really shouldn’t be taken too seriously. Well, at the first sign of trouble within marriages today, it seems like a lot of people are encouraged just to throw it away, abandon the relationship altogether, because you want to pursue what, quote unquote, makes you happy. Well, if you’re married, you know that marriage can be hard. But what if there was a way to make marriage easier for you to love and even like your spouse? That’s a great way of looking at it. And our guest today here on Family Talk is Arlene Pellicane. And she has released a brand new book that features that title, Making Marriage Easier, How to Love and Like Your Spouse for Life. Arlene Pellicane is an author. She’s a speaker. She’s the host of the Happy Home podcast. And in addition, she serves as the spokesperson for National Marriage Week. Arlene and her husband, James, have been married over 25 years. They have three children and lots of great stories to tell. But James isn’t here to defend himself, but Arlene is. So Arlene Pellicane, welcome to Family Talk. We’re delighted to have you here on the program. And Dr. and Mrs. Dobson send their warmest regards as well.
SPEAKER 02 :
It’s an honor to be here. And yes, my husband is very funny. And if it wasn’t for him, there would be no book. There are no funny stories because I didn’t have to do anything strange.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, well, he had, you know, he has to be a good sport because obviously you guys have a dynamic marriage and you’re such a great communicator about this. I think that vulnerability that you share, whether you’re talking about teens and screens or just being parents. And now tackling marriage, I appreciate the fact that 25 years into it, you’re saying, okay, we want to kind of air this out a little bit because marriage doesn’t have to be as difficult as it is. And yet, just because something is simple doesn’t mean it’s easy.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, we have this mindset, right? Oh, it’s so hard. It’s so much work. And then you think like, wait a minute, how could we turn this around and just ask the question, wait, how could I make my marriage easier today? So in the same way, if you wanted to get healthier, right? You think, oh, I want to be healthy. I want to be healthy. Well, how would you make that easier? Well, I’d actually buy healthy food. I’d actually ask a friend to join me, you know, for a walk and have an actual appointment. There are things you can do to make that easier. And the same is true in marriage.
SPEAKER 01 :
It’s interesting. I think you and I had conversation in another lifetime for me when you had become the spokesperson for the National Marriage Week. Talk about that. I mean, we’ve passed it for this year, but people want to plan ahead. It happens the same time every year. What exactly is National Marriage Week and what’s your involvement in that?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah. So National Marriage Week happens every year between February 7th and 14th. And you know how like there could be National Ice Cream Day and it’s like, let’s go get some ice cream because we all love it and stand in line for ice cream. Well, National Marriage Week is like, let’s build some excitement around marriage to say that marriage is good for us. As people, it’s good for a society. It’s good for communities and celebrate marriage. And there are resources like this past year, we had live streams that you could have for absolutely free to learn about communication, intimacy, how to have fun again, all those things. So it is there to A, put marriage in front of people once again to say this is worth defending, cherishing, enjoying, giving hope to the next generation for. And then we are equipping current marriages, you know, how can we help you? And you can go anytime during the year to marriageweek.org and find like resources on how to talk again. You’re just staring at each other, you know, in at dinner. You don’t know what to say. There are conversation starters. There are, you know, a calendar of events that you can see. Is there a marriage event in your area? So all of that is there all year long at marriageweek.org.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, we’ll link that up at drjamesdobson.org as well, because that’s a resource that I know our listeners will definitely appreciate. And you mentioned ice cream and National Marriage Week. I know there’s a marriage ice cream story in your future. We’re going to talk about that in just a moment. But first, we want to get into this brand new book, Making Marriage Easier. You know, I love your writing. I know Tori was reading, or Tori Brown, our producer, was reading this. and saying, oh my gosh, this book is hilarious. It’s so much fun. I love the topics that you’ve talked about. Where did this desire, this passion, if you will, come from for you that says, I want to write these things down and share them with people?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, I was the girl who dreamt of getting married, right? And then it’s like, you go through college, you go through working. It’s like, where is this man? So then finally, when I married him in my late 20s, which at that time seemed like a really long time to wait for someone, which today is probably much more normative in the culture. But when I got married, it was like, this is fantastic. And as the years went on, it was still fantastic. kind of fantastic. And then when I had kids, we struggled with having children. We had infertility. I miscarried, all these different things. And so when I had a child, it was like, this is amazing. And we have really found that if you raise your kids with discipline and love and all the things that Dr. Dobson would talk about, they grow up to people you really like and you really enjoy. So I thought to myself, I’m We are not so unusual to enjoy marriage, to enjoy parenting, but it seems like that’s not happening for a lot of people. So that’s the inspiration for like, let me write about this. Let me talk about this. Let me podcast about this, speak about this to encourage people that your home can be happy. Even if you didn’t come from a happy home, you can create one because the joy of the Lord is our strength.
SPEAKER 01 :
I love that. And this title, Making Marriage Easier, that’s not tongue in cheek. You really do mean that there is a way to make this simpler.
SPEAKER 02 :
Let’s make this a little bit easier.
SPEAKER 01 :
Sure. And how to love and like your spouse for life and like is in there parenthetically. Well, first of all, I mean, is it really possible? There’s someone hearing us right now who says, Arlene, you have no idea. You have no idea who I married to. No. Yeah. And quite frankly, I think Stephen Curtis Chapman had the best line when he was talking about his wife, Mary Beth, and he said, you know, I just want to thank her for signing up for a job where if she’d actually read the job description, she never would have applied, you know, to be my wife. But that’s where we all are when we get into marriage, right? We think we know.
SPEAKER 02 :
And people need to know that, that, oh, Arlene is talking about this and she’s so happy all the time. No, we are normal people. And there are many times my husband, James, and I were very different people. I’m a rules follower. He is a free spirit. And so when I think to myself, well, I don’t like you very much. You’re making me do this thing that I don’t want to do or you’re doing this thing and I disagree with you. Something that has really helped me is realizing, well, he probably doesn’t like me very much either in this moment. So the thing that you are so frustrated with about your spouse, if you will take a moment to think, you know, from their point of view, they’re probably like, that person is also, you know, to realize we are equally frustrating to one another. Yeah. And just that thought pattern helps you to be more compassionate towards your spouse and to realize, you know what, I need to act in a likable way, not just before marriage, but throughout marriage so that you actually like me. And it will spur your spouse to say, too, like, oh, yeah, I have this great spouse. Why am I acting like such a jerk? I should be more likable to you. So it is this attitude that it’s not just that you were attractive to one another before you said, I do, but you’re working through the years, through the seasons of marriage, seasons through life to remain likable to one another.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, one of the quotes I have from your book, Making Marriage Easier. is when that happens, when husband and wife welcome a baby. And all of a sudden, there’s a nice little pull quote here where you say, it’s natural for the new title of parent to eclipse the longer held titles of husband and wife. But that total eclipse needs to end as the baby gets older. Now, that doesn’t mean you’re rejecting your kids, but it means that oftentimes we can become too child-focused and the kids don’t really need us to be as child-focused as they did when they were younger.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, just think of all the things that we will do for our children from driving them around to, you know, being at practice. You know, I’ll sit in a car for an hour and wait for my girls to get out of tennis practice and I’ll bring a book and it’ll be no problem. But if my husband said, hey, could you bring me somewhere and wait for me for an hour? I would be like, do you not know about Uber or Lyft, brother? Like, why would I do that? How old are you? So it’s like that consideration that we have for our kids that we would so easily do for our children, so easily be patient with them as they’re working through a problem. But if our spouse has a problem, we’re like, are you not over that yet? I need a fully functioning adult here by my side. So it is this idea that prioritize that marriage, still date your spouse, still spend time with them. And this is practical stuff. This doesn’t mean you have to spend hours and hours with your spouse every day, but it’s a hug at the door. It’s a glance that is two seconds long that kind of just lets the other person know, I still see you. I still know you. It’s the willingness to listen. At the end of the day, it’s me rubbing my husband’s feet because he likes that. He’s a physical touch kind of guy. And I’m a words kind of person, so I like to talk. So we both kind of get that done and it’s nice. So it’s those little moments of connection throughout the day where the marriage isn’t in the trunk, you know, like buried under all this stuff to be resurrected in the empty nest years, you know, but that throughout the marriage that you’re still carrying, you know, and that’s one of the rules. of our marriage is that the marriage is that priority relationship. Because when it’s all said and done, you look at that five-year-old, seven-year-old, you think, someday you will be my extended family. And it seems preposterous in that moment. But I’ve got two college kids now and a high schooler. And it’s really real that you see like, wow, you are going to grow up to have your own life and your own family, perhaps. And it’s dad and me. It’s my husband and me. And we better take care of that relationship. Yeah.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, it is very gratifying when you see your kids, because all of my biological children are over 30. And Lisa and I have a blended family, and we’ve got a couple who are in their late 20s. But for the most part, our kids, we say, you’re old, you’re grown. You know, I mean, we don’t have to be that priority for them because they’re making their own decisions. They’re benefiting from, unfortunately, some of the mistakes they saw their parents make. And now they’re in their 30s and raising young children and hopefully making good decisions. And it’s great to have this conversation today with Arlene Pelican. She’s the author of the brand new book called Making Marriage Easier, How to Love and Like Your Spouse for Life. And you’ll find a link up at drjamesdobson.org. Arlene, you split the book up into four different sections. You’ve got four different, as you say, decisions that couples have to make to make marriages easier. Walk us through… Each of these, if you would, just kind of, let’s do a 35,000 foot flyover and then we’ll dive into them a little more.
SPEAKER 02 :
Decision one is play by the rules. And this is the idea, like if you’re playing a game and if the boundaries change or the rules change, you’re like, what is happening? It’s the same thing in marriage. There are rules. We look at God’s word for these rules. How do we honor one another, love one another, respect one another? And we do these rules. You know, a big rule is you stay that you’ve made this vow. How do we keep this vow? You know, and so one of the things we’ve done to play by the rules is the power hour, which is a daily meal together. As long as we’re both in the same city, you know, we’re not traveling, et cetera, that we’re having meals together. So it’s just a rule of life that it’s a pattern. So what are like the patterns in your life? and the rules that keep your marriage healthy and strong. So play by those rules. The second decision is give thanks every day. When you found your spouse, you were thankful. You’re like, thank you, God, that I finally found this person. And a couple of years into it, you might be like, oh Lord, what is it? And instead of the thanks, we have the grumbling, right? Oh, he doesn’t do this. She doesn’t do this anymore. Why are they always on my case? They don’t consider me. Turn that into thanksgiving once again. Lord, I thank you for my spouse. That third decision is serve your spouse. That’s real popular, right? Because we live in a culture where it’s like, don’t serve anyone, you know, stick up for yourself, defend your own rights, be your own boss, find your own happiness. But the Bible clearly tells us, I mean, Jesus is a servant. You think of the big guys in the Old Testament, Moses, Daniel, David, they are servants of God. Like the higher you go in God’s eyes, the more servant like you are. And so marriage is such a beautiful place to say, what can I do for you? Instead of thinking all the time, well, what have you done for me today? You don’t do very much for me. Why would I do anything for you? Because you don’t do anything for me, right? So turning this around, how can we serve our spouses? And again, this is not a permission for abuse. This is not a permission to be neglected. That’s not what we’re talking about. This is simply like, how can I help you today? Have that kind of attitude instead of, hmm, hmm, hmm. When are you going to do something for me? You know, not to have that attitude. And then the last decision is a fun one. It is take fun seriously. That fun sometimes seems like an extra, like we’ll do that, you know, once a year during our week long vacation, or we’ll do that when we have more money or we’ll do that when the kids are grown. But no, you can’t do that because if you think to yourself, when was the last time we had fun together? Like when was the last time we laughed together? And you really have to think hard about that question because It shows you like, wow, this relationship is not very fun. It’s more business-like, roommate-like. It’s transactional. It’s not really connecting. So having fun and using your time for it, saving your money for it is actually a really wise and I believe godly thing to do. So take fun seriously. Be playful again with each other.
SPEAKER 01 :
I love that. And as you think of all of these working together, I know you write about in the book some examples that you have of where you and James kind of didn’t necessarily see. You actually have a common experience with my daughter, Emily, and her husband, Brian. Brian has a degree in environmental science. He’s Mr. Nature. Isaac, their oldest son, was barefoot for the first three years of their life. They loved to be outdoors, hunt fish, all that other stuff. And Emily’s idea of roughing it in the outdoors was glamping, right? Totally. Getting up before nine on Saturday morning was her. And all of a sudden now she loves to go camp. She loves to hike. She loves all that stuff. And I thought, and I asked her one day, I said, Em, do you like this because you just love Brian so much? And she goes, no doubt. I found out. Guess what? I really do like it. But I know you and James have kind of a similar story. You know, he’s one way and you’re the other. You’re kind of like, okay, who’s going to… As long as you didn’t try to win the argument, if you will, it’s kind of turned out to be a fun experience for you. Talk about that.
SPEAKER 02 :
It has been, you know, I should have known when on our wedding registry, he put like a tent and all this stuff that I would have never put on a wedding registry. It’s like all the love is blind kind of things. And we were newlyweds and there, it was a new church we were attending. And he said, let’s go to the camping trip, young Mary’s camping trip. Okay. That sounds good. But you know how you say, yeah, that sounds good. But in your heart, you’re like, I don’t want to do that. So the whole car ride, and you’re exactly right. He grew up camping. I didn’t. The whole car ride, I’m mad. I’m sullen. Are you too hot, too cold? I’m fine. Do you want to listen to the radio?
SPEAKER 01 :
I don’t care. The worst thing a husband can hear from his wife is, I’m fine.
SPEAKER 02 :
I’m fine. Yes. I don’t care. You choose. You choose. So we get to the campsite like an hour away. He stops the car. He says, are you going to be like this all weekend? Because if you are, we don’t have to be here because I’m here to have fun. And I will start crying like a newlywed, you know, like, I mean, I didn’t have to come, you know, and then I realized I’m being I’m being selfish. Like, I’m sorry. My attitude is awful. And isn’t it funny? You can be so sad and mad at your spouse. But then with other people, you know, you walk out of the car. Oh, hi. I love camping. Nice tent. You know, you just are so you can be so nice to other people. But I would say that experience was like a B minus for me. So it wasn’t like I loved it, but it was OK. But through the years, the idea has been if you like it, I’ll try it. And I will say, you know, we’ve gotten more advanced, you know, so we’ve got to the point where we are two nights, you know, back country, 30 pounds on your back and you’re doing it. You’re going to the bathroom in the wild, you’re sleeping out there, the whole deal. And I will say, Roger, there are moments where it’s so beautiful that I’m like, this is so worth it. I will do this. But then there are other moments, which I said on a Yosemite trip, we’ve done this twice so far, that I told my husband, I would pay $5,000 if someone would airlift me from this spot back to my car. I would seriously give, I will work really hard and give you that $5,000 if someone would get me out of here. So I have this love-hate relationship. But you know what’s funny is that when it’s easy, I love it. And when it’s super hard, right, it’s uphill for a really long time. It’s treacherous. And I’m like, man, I’m out. And this is marriage that you don’t know what it’s going to be like, but you have to make the whole loop. There’s no one to rescue you, you know, midway through and you work it out together. You take it slow. You might have to camp out, you know, all those things. But I thought it was such a good analogy that you have to finish what you started. It’s not always the same way. But like your daughter says, it’s beautiful. And really you do when you start seeing things from your spouse’s point of view, you see, wow, there really is beauty in that. Whatever that thing is that they really enjoy that you don’t quite, but you’re willing to do it. And that’s the whole serve your spouse. Like I’m willing to do that. And you do it for each other.
SPEAKER 01 :
You know, it’s wonderful to hear these stories from someone who’s, these are tried and true principles from Arlene Pelican. The book is called Making Marriage Easier, How to Love and Like Your Spouse for Life. And we highly recommend this book here at the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute. You know, it’s interesting, Arlene, when I first got to know you, you were talking about teens and screens and things like that and the social media influence. My parents are celebrating their 70th wedding anniversary this August.
SPEAKER 02 :
Wow, that’s amazing, Roger.
SPEAKER 01 :
It’s wonderful. They met in high school. The first day of senior year, my dad was in the same homeroom class as my mom. She was taking roll and he just fell head over heels in love with her to the point where she had a boyfriend, he had a girlfriend and they arranged a double date so they could spend some time together. They wound up getting rid of the other two. I just, my dad’s kind of clever like that.
SPEAKER 02 :
That’s awesome.
SPEAKER 01 :
But I think about the 70 years for them and it was never a question. I mean, my dad’s madly in love with my mom and my mom is perfectly happy to let him madly love her and she respects the heck out of him. I mean, they have a wonderful marriage, but they didn’t grow up in Facebook world. They didn’t grow up in TikTok land. They didn’t have all these other people saying, well, I have the perfect spouse, this, that, and the other thing. And that’s a real thing now, isn’t it? The couples are dealing with when you want to try to love your spouse, you want to try to like your spouse, but But when you have this comparison thing going on all the time, it really does skew the way we view marriage, doesn’t it?
SPEAKER 02 :
And really to understand, we used to understand, OK, if I’m watching this television show, if I’m looking at this magazine, they staged all this. We kind of understood their house doesn’t normally look like that. They don’t normally act like that towards each other. They’re just on camera right now and they’re really giving it to us for the camera. And then we go on social media and we think, oh, this is a snapshot of people’s normal lives. And then to realize, no, it’s not like this is them showing you, you know, the best vacation and the best. And the thing is, you’re not following them all the time. of all the other stuff that’s not being posted. So you’re only seeing the best of someone’s life. And not only that, but you’re not just looking at, let’s say, your community. You’re looking at the world, like you have access on your phone to everyone in the entire world. So it really is a silly and unfair comparison that it is not realistic. It’s also that environment. Think of your parents are growing up In an environment where marriage is celebrated, where it’s understood like you stick together through hard times and the community really supports that. Well, when people go online now, the community supports, oh, you’re not happy? Well, you should get out. You know, there’s a better way. So to realize that, wait a minute, the community isn’t happy. that vibrant, loving, helpful, right? Devoted community as well. And so we need to find that offline people in your life who will support you in your marriage and to realize when you go online, that is not real. And when you’re at dinner, when you’re on vacation, you’re there for each other. You’re not there to produce social media content, right? So to realize, okay, wait a And not to compare myself and to ask myself, is my phone use helping me fear God more? Or is it helping me fear man more? Like, what do they say? What do they say about my marriage? And just see it through that lens. And a lot of it may be, you know, really putting new environmental things in place where you don’t take your phone on a dinner date, where you don’t look at your phone first thing in the morning or last thing at night so you can look at your spouse instead.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah. Well, that’s helpful because that’s one of the questions you ask in the book. You have to pose the question, is your phone more interesting than your spouse? Yeah. And I know for a lot of people it is. I mean, there’s just, I got to find some new attractive distraction.
SPEAKER 02 :
It is hyper, it’s just completely charged with everything you’re interested in and it changes all the time. So how in the world can your spouse compete, you know, with all of that? So to realize, wait a minute, I need to put this down and be curious about my spouse once again and find them interesting again. Yeah. And that’s something you really have to do on purpose.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah. It’s wonderful when you can reach that point in marriage where you realize, hey, every day there is something that I can be thankful for because I learned something new. Sometimes you learn something new and it’s not that great, but at least you learned it and it deepens the relationship. And the only way you can really measure the success, I think, of a marriage is not so much, hey, we can spend a lot of money on each other and take wild trips and buy big houses and fancy cars. It’s what happens when you’re going through the tough times. Yeah. Well, we are just scratching the surface here on this great new book from Arlene Pelican, Making Marriage Easier, How to Love and Like Your Spouse for Life. We have a link for it up at drjamesdobson.org. Arlene, can you come back next time and we can continue this conversation?
SPEAKER 02 :
I would love to. Thanks so much.
SPEAKER 01 :
You know, there’s something refreshing about hearing someone say, let’s make marriage easier instead of dwelling on how hard it is. On today’s edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, our guest has been Arlene Pellicane, and she’s written a brand new book on this subject called Making Marriage Easier. Now, if you found today’s conversation to be encouraging, you can listen to it again or share it with someone you love by visiting drjamesdobson.org forward slash family talk. And while you’re there, be sure you check out information about Arlene’s book as well. Again, the title is Making Marriage Easier. That’s drjamesdobson.org forward slash family talk. You know, strengthening marriages is central to so much of what we do here at the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute. Our mission is to help preserve and promote the institution of the family and the biblical principles upon which it’s based. When marriages thrive, families flourish. And when families flourish… Right now, you have an extraordinary opportunity to multiply your impact in supporting this mission of strengthening families and helping them to flourish. All throughout the month of June, thanks to several generous ministry partners, they’ve come together to offer a special matching grant. This means that every dollar you donate to Family Talk will be matched dollar for dollar, effectively doubling your support for families all across the country. A $500 gift becomes $1,000. A $2,500 gift becomes $5,000. Even a $100 gift becomes $200. Now, some might be able to give more, some less, but every donation, regardless of size, will go twice as far in bringing hope and practical biblical wisdom to marriages and families who need it the most. Now you can have your gift doubled through this special June matching grant when you go to drjamesdobson.org or by giving us a call at 877-732-6825. And when you contact us, be sure you ask for Dr. Dobson’s powerful book called Your Legacy along with the companion DVD. You know, in these challenging times, this book and DVD combination will equip you to pass down an unshakable heritage of faith to your children and your grandchildren. Now, the book includes Dr. Dobson’s personal story, also strategies for spiritual training and practical steps for leading your children and grandchildren to Christ. We’ll be happy to send you a copy of Dr. Dobson’s book, Your Legacy, along with the companion DVD. It’s our way of thanking you for your gift of any amount in the month of June to the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute. Make a secure donation online at drjamesdobson.org. Give us a call at 877-732-6825. Or you can send your tax-deductible donation through the U.S. Postal Service. Our ministry mailing address is Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk. P.O. Box 39000, Colorado Springs, Colorado. The zip code 80949. Remember, this matching opportunity ends on Monday, June 30th. So please don’t wait. Your partnership makes it possible for us to continue bringing biblical truth and encouragement to families just like yours through the radio and through our online ministries as well. I’m Roger Marsh, thanking you so much for joining us today. On behalf of Dr. Dobson and all of the staff, thanks for being a part of Family Talk. Be sure to join us again next time for part two of this encouraging conversation with author Arlene Pellicane, talking about making marriage easier. That’s coming up right here on the next edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, the voice you trust for the family you love. This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.
