The power of seeing an unborn baby changes hearts and saves lives. On today’s edition of Family Talk, Dr. James Dobson continues his classic conversation with Dr. Julie Parton, Darlene Norberg, and Tammy Schafer about pregnancy care centers and ultrasound technology. Tammy also shares her own compelling story of how sidewalk counselors intervened at a critical moment. To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/707/29?v=20251111
Here’s today’s Dr. Dobson Minute with Dr. James Dobson.
SPEAKER 04 :
It’s common to hear people say today that being a homemaker is boring and that the mothers who stay at home to raise children are accepting an unchallenging way of life. Well, compared with what, I might ask? The truth is almost any occupation you can name, from a telephone operator to a medical pathologist to an attorney or a dentist, involves long hours of tedious activity. Few of us enjoy heart-thumping excitement each moment of our professional lives. No, I doubt if the job of being a homemaker is more boring than most other jobs, particularly if a woman refuses to be isolated from adult contact. But as for the importance of the assignment, many mothers tell me that nothing can compete with the satisfaction of shaping and molding and guiding a new human being. For them, It’s a supremely stimulating investment of their lives.
SPEAKER 01 :
For more information, visit drdobsonminute.org.
SPEAKER 03 :
Hello, everyone. You’re listening to Family Talk, a radio broadcasting ministry of the James Dobson Family Institute. I’m Dr. James Dobson, and thank you for joining us for this program.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, welcome to Family Talk, the broadcast division of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute. I’m Roger Marsh, and during the next half hour, we have a special treat for you. Recently, we discovered several, I mean, I’m talking hundreds of broadcasts featuring Dr. Dobson from classic years all the way up through the present that have never been aired before on the broadcast of Family Talk. And so it’s a special treat for us to be able to share with you this first week in January, the first of those new classic programs. And this one centers on technology that seems like it’s a little bit commonplace for those of us in the pro-life community to understand. But the more and more we see a younger generation growing up and moving away from biblical values, the less we are confident that these people actually fully understand certain things like, does life, human life, actually begin at conception? Now, we all know that it does, but there are a growing number of younger people, especially younger women, who are of the impression that when it comes to the issue of abortion, for example, that abortion is harmless, that it’s really all about the mother. It’s all about the woman involved, has nothing to do with anybody else other than the mom. Now, you and I both know that that… is not true. The name of the game here is that this is a mother and a child. There’s a human baby growing inside the mother’s womb. But one of the ways that we have been made aware of this dearth of knowledge is the fact that so many abortion clinics fight tooth and nail to keep ultrasound technology away from the expectant mother. Now, if you go to an abortion clinic and abortion is scheduled, then of course they’re going to perform an ultrasound because the abortionist needs to know how far along the woman is in gestation, how far along the baby is in his or her growth, and what needs to be done to end the life of that child in the womb. Not to be gruesome, but that’s exactly what they’re doing. But it is very curious as you take a gander at what happens in the legislation fighting for the sanctity of human life, how many abortion clinics will fight tooth and nail against any sort of ultrasound technology being made available to the mother. Well, on today’s edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, we’re going to hear a conversation Dr. Dobson had with three women who dedicated their lives to helping expectant mothers and saving the preborn using ultrasound technology. We’re going to hear Dr. Dobson and his former co-host, John Fuller, have conversations with Dr. Julie Parton, a pregnancy resource ministry director. Also, Darlene Norberg, who served as a consultant on the Option Ultrasound Program, and Tammy Schaefer, who performed more than 3,000 ultrasounds as director of patient care at Choices Medical Clinic in Wichita, Kansas. Now you’re going to hear remarkable stories of changed hearts and saved lives, including Tammy’s own testimony of how sidewalk counselors intercepted her on the way into an abortion clinic when she was just 17 years old. This is a powerful conversation. And of course, it’s one that’s intended only for mature audiences. So if you have children in the listening range with you, please make sure you use parental discretion. And now let’s listen into this timeless conversation. First time we’ve ever aired this discussion here on Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk.
SPEAKER 02 :
We have a very important program, the continuation of a discussion that we started yesterday about something, Doctor, that we are so pleased about, option ultrasound. And this reflects the heart of this ministry in such a significant way.
SPEAKER 04 :
You know, John, there are times when I just feel like the Lord has a certain… ordination on what we’re trying to do. And here we are talking about the value and worth of children. And I think one flows right into the other. Let’s don’t take any more time. Let’s let people hear what I think is a very, very strong discussion about ultrasound. Let me introduce the three guests who have joined us at this time to talk about this project and why we’re so excited about it. They’ve all been helping in various aspects of Pregnancy Center Ministries for years. Dr. Julie Pardon, Pregnancy Resource Ministry Director. Darlene Norberg serves as consultant on this ultrasound project. She’s based in Dallas, Texas. And finally, Tammy Schaefer has performed more than 3,000 ultrasounds as director of patient care at a pregnancy center in Wichita, Kansas, which just happens to be located right next door to Dr. George Tiller’s late-term abortion clinic. as we talked about last time. Julie, let me start by asking you about some of the tangible blessings that you’ve seen as a result of the work we’re doing here. How many lives have you seen changed because of the vital work performed by pregnancy resource centers around the country?
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, let me tell you a neat story that I didn’t experience personally, but a physician who is a medical director of a pregnancy center She told me the other day that she went in to do a scan of a young woman that had come into their pregnancy center. And she went in, and as doctors do, she introduced herself. And the young woman, the patient, said, oh, yes, I know you. You did my last scan. And there she is in the stroller right over there. And so that doctor got to pick up that baby and hold that baby that a few months ago this young woman had not been planning on carrying to term. Wow. That’s the best.
SPEAKER 04 :
That’s why we do what we do, John, because not only with regard to our support for pregnancy resource centers, nearly 80 ministries all drive toward one purpose, and that’s to win people to Christ. And the amazing thing is that the family and family-related issues can take you farther in some cases than than a church can because you can get into places that a church can’t go.
SPEAKER 02 :
The family need transcends a lot of different barriers and can get through places, as you just said. It sure does.
SPEAKER 04 :
You know, Julie, I want you to respond to this, that not only are there all these blessings associated with this ultrasound concept that’s coming on strong now, but it’s having an impact on the culture at large, isn’t it?
SPEAKER 06 :
It is. As you’ve often said, I really believe that we’re winning this battle, this struggle for the sanctity of human life. And I think the two key contributing factors are, first of all, the medical technology, such as ultrasound, that make it incontrovertibly clear that this really is a baby that they’re carrying. And then secondly, the stories of post-abortive women who are willing to step forward and say, I regret my abortion. Abortion harms women. It’s not good for women.
SPEAKER 07 :
Mm-hmm. They say a picture is worth a thousand words, but when it comes to an abortion decision, it’s worth way more than a thousand words. It’s worth the life of a baby. And to show them that just dispels all the myths, breaks down the walls. I mean, even the person that in the counseling room has had their back to you. I mean, their body language is not open to what you’re saying. They see the baby and the tears just start flowing.
SPEAKER 02 :
Give us an example, Tammy, of what you’re talking about. I mean, you’ve seen a number of women change their minds. What happens to that expectant mother who puts up a tough exterior even when her heart inside is breaking?
SPEAKER 07 :
We had one woman that came in that had 12 previous abortions. Oh, my. And came in, and we did a sonogram, and nobody had ever shown her her baby before. She carried the baby and placed it for adoption. And it was born around Christmas. And can you imagine the Christmas gift that adoptive family got?
SPEAKER 04 :
Is that right?
SPEAKER 07 :
And 12 previous with nobody ever showing her her baby.
SPEAKER 04 :
When you go home at night after having— showed a woman her baby for the first time and she decides to keep him or her, what do you think and what do you feel? You understand that smiling face of the Lord? You ever had that?
SPEAKER 07 :
It’s kind of twofold for me because I was a teen in a crisis pregnancy. When I was 17 years old, I was in a small town school. I was raised in a Christian home. My mom and dad were divorced. I lived with my dad and my stepmom. And my biggest thing… It was disappointing my dad. My dad thought that I was his good little girl. I didn’t want to tell him any different. So at that time, my boyfriend, father of a baby, said, whatever you want to do, I’ll support you. And at that time, I used to think that was a good answer. Now, that’s not a good answer. It puts it all back on your shoulders. But Um, I said, you don’t understand. I cannot tell my dad. I cannot tell my dad. I was in a small town. I was a cheerleader, you know, pretty good kid, never did drugs or alcohol or any of that stuff. But, um, anyway, so I made an appointment for an abortion and was walking into the clinic with the cash in my hand of an appointment made. And, um, I just told, you know, my boyfriend to go, go ahead and just go to the mall or whatever you have to do. Cause the lady on the phone said, oh, you know, piece of cake, basically three hours it’ll all be over. Bring a bag, bring a change of clothes, bring a driver, three hours you’ll be done. It’s like, oh, good, three hours, it’s all going to be over. So I was giving him a hug goodbye and out of nowhere, because I made sure nobody was around that would see me, I heard somebody say, well, at least go in with her. And turn on the back of the parking lot, there were two sidewalk counselors. I later came to know them as sidewalk counselors, Betty Bourne and Rob Cleary. And they approached us. And even though I didn’t know what abortion was all about, didn’t know at seven and a half weeks a baby had finger, toes, arms, and legs, I… I just started crying, and I knew deep down in my heart that it wasn’t right. So we left there, and I ended up telling my family the hardest thing I ever did. My son’s going to be 15 in a couple of weeks.
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, my. What did your dad say?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, he was pretty upset. My mom and my dad had opposite reactions. Yeah. Neither one of them were quite normal reactions. My mom said, well, I hope it’s a girl. And my dad, my mom told him that I had just been, you know, had considered an abortion. He immediately came up with questions like, how are you going to graduate from high school? And how are you going to go to college? And how do you expect to be a teen mom and make it? And things like that. At that point in my life, I decided that’s when I became really stubborn. I decided I was going to prove it to him. So I graduated from high school semester early and went to nursing school in the following fall. And when I was in the hospital, having him is when I decided to go into nursing. So I think that was all the Lord was doing, too. Otherwise, I wouldn’t be in the position I’m at at the clinic. But anyway, I had to tell him his story at age 10 because… You know, I was joining the clinic, and Joe Wright, the pastor at Central Christian Church in Wichita, wanted me to share my story and wanted him to come. And I was like, oh, I stressed out about that for a few days. I prayed about it and asked some people from church, how do you think I should explain this to Aaron? So I explained to him what abortionists do for a living and why, you know, I think women choose abortion, whether it’s society telling them that, you know— they don’t deserve to have a baby, something’s wrong with the baby, or they don’t have insurance, you know, reach your goals, it’s going to ruin your plans or whatever. So I told him, I said, do you know what abortion is? He said, yeah, that’s when somebody doesn’t want their baby and they give it to somebody else. And I said, well, that’s adoption. And so I explained it to him, and I said, well, Aaron, mom was one of those ladies and you were one of those babies. And he immediately, without pausing, said, whew, that was a close one for me. And I was like, whoa, it aged in. He realized he was almost ripped out of this world without even knowing.
SPEAKER 04 :
You know, Tammy, that story you just told us is symbolic of a drama that’s played out tens of thousands of times. It is. I see it all the time. What’s the figure now? Close to a million a year. I see it all the time. And that very scenario is typical, isn’t it?
SPEAKER 07 :
Right.
SPEAKER 04 :
How many times have you heard it since?
SPEAKER 07 :
A lot. And when I sit across the table from them and say, you know what, I know what you’re feeling. And a lot of times I’ll tell them, you’re doing way better than I am. I bawled for four months. Anytime anybody looked at me sideways. you know, and they’ll be sitting there listening and, and not crying. But basically, you know, I can tell them life doesn’t end. It’s survivable. And you know, what if you abort to reach your goals and they’re too depressed to meet your goals anyway, then you’re not going to have a baby or your goals met. And yeah, personal experience is sometimes just telling them that story like that really grasps them if nothing else does. And they really listen. And they’ll start asking me questions about, you know, what happened with me and things, but And that’s why I do what I do, because somebody was there for me. And if they wouldn’t have been, I wouldn’t have Aaron. So and, you know, I kind of am living. I was talking to my mentor the other day and kind of living by Romans 8, 28 and 2 Corinthians 1. You know, what I have experienced is the Lord is using for his glory and to impact his kingdom and change lives and save souls. And it’s amazing. Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
Darling, we’re talking to women today who made the wrong decision at a moment like that. And they aborted their baby, maybe more than one. And now they feel this tremendous load of guilt, especially as they hear Tammy. What do you say to them?
SPEAKER 05 :
I identify with them. I’m post-abortive. And I identify with them. And I say, reach up, look up. God’s there.
SPEAKER 04 :
Will he forgive this then?
SPEAKER 05 :
Does he forgive? Grace just…
SPEAKER 04 :
Is there any sin He can’t forgive?
SPEAKER 05 :
No. We just bathe in His grace. We just bathe in it. And it is so redemptive in how He takes those things, those sins, and just washes them away and heals us and puts us into service for Him. I mean, I keep telling everybody, I’m just this little girl from Saginaw, Michigan. And look at what the Lord is doing. allowing me the privilege of doing. He doesn’t hold it against us. He’s so forgiving. But the toughest part is forgiving yourself.
SPEAKER 04 :
Julie, you understand where these women are coming from?
SPEAKER 06 :
I don’t identify on a personal basis. The Lord has spared me those difficult experiences, and I’m grateful for that. But I certainly have talked to enough women who have been through them that you hit the nail on the head when you said that They don’t believe God can forgive that sin. And that’s what’s so important for them to hear. There is hope and there is healing.
SPEAKER 04 :
There is no doubt in my mind, but what, given the size of our audience, and I’m still not sure how many are out there from day to day.
SPEAKER 02 :
One and a half to two million people listening right now.
SPEAKER 04 :
Imagine two million people. In that crowd somewhere is a woman, probably dozens of them, who are in a crisis pregnancy situation. They’re scared, they’re lonely, they’re confused, and they don’t know where to turn. and they happened to hear this broadcast, weren’t planning to listen today. Maybe they were driving to work, and they had the radio on, and they hear this warm voice of people who sound like they care, and they do, and they’re drawn to what we’ve had to say. Darlene, I don’t want to put you on the spot, but I am going to ask you to pray for those women today. Would you do that?
SPEAKER 05 :
I would love to. I would love to. Holy Father, Father, you’re the God of new beginnings, and we love you. And God, I just pray for the women who are hearing this message today. Lord, I pray that they realize that there is no such thing as a coincidence when it comes to a great big God. That, Lord, that you lead us where you want us. And Father, I pray for tender hearts. I pray for women who are struggling with the issue of realizing that there is a life growing within their womb. And Father, they’re feeling so many emotions now. Lord, I just pray that their eyes and their hearts would be open to the answers that you have before them. God, I pray that they would yearn for education. Dear Jesus, we just lay all of these things at the foot of your cross because that’s where the power is. And Lord, we love you and we lift up these ladies to you. We lift up these ministries to you. And we ask all of this in the name of your precious son, Jesus Christ. Amen.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, on today’s edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, we heard some powerful testimonies coming from some women who have been real pioneers in the Sanctity of Human Life movement. And you know, the most powerful testimonies often come from those who’ve walked through the valley themselves and have emerged with hope to share. On today’s edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, Dr. Dobson welcomed his guests, Dr. Julie Parton, Darlene Norberg, and Tammy Schaefer. We also heard from John Fuller, the former co-host of Dr. Dobson’s original audio radio ministry. Now, if you missed any portion of today’s program, or if you want to hear them share their powerful testimonies again, and share those testimonies with someone you know would benefit from them, We encourage you to go to jdfi.net and you can hear all of the audio that you’re looking for, jdfi.net. It’s our new website, jamesdobsonfamilyinstitute.net. Of course, you can always go to drjamesdobson.org as you’ve gone before and go to the Family Talk tab and the information is there as well. But we really encourage you to take a look at the brand new resourcing that we have available for you at our new website, which is jdfi.net. As we think about the sanctity of human life, there’s a new blog post going up next week. And it’s a blog post based on the writings of Dr. William Lyle, who goes by the on-air name of Pro-Life Doc. And Dr. James Dobson gave Dr. William Lyle his start in terms of giving him a platform, giving him an audience to share with. And Dr. Lyle just took it from there and ran with it. Quite frankly, he’s written a piece based on the life of Dr. James Dobson that focuses on the rather William Wilberforce-esque nature of Dr. Dobson’s relationship with the pro-life community. Prior to the passing of the horrible Roe versus Wade bill that passed through the U.S. Supreme Court on January 22nd, 1973, there were a few states that had legal abortion, but many states did not. And this was a push by leftists to get abortion legalized in the United States. And the Supreme Court ruling gave them all the ammunition they needed. In the first decade after Roe versus Wade was passed, What we found in the United States was that a lot of people were fighting for the right to abortion. A lot of women in the feminist movement were convinced it was the way to go, that it was absolutely necessary. And it seemed like there was a lot of opposition from the Catholic Church, but primarily the argument was based on pro-abortion or anti-abortion for the good 10 years or so. And then Dr. Dobson stood in the gap and Dr. Dobson began hosting programs like the one you just heard today on Family Talk about saving babies through ultrasound technology with guests like Dr. Julie Parton and Darlene Norberg and Tammy Schaefer, women who had really been fighting on the front lines of the Sanctity of Life movement and taking this radical concept that having an ultrasound machine at a pregnancy resource center Giving women the option to see ultrasound images of their preborn child and then letting them decide whether or not they were going to keep the pregnancy or end the pregnancy was revolutionary at the time. Nowadays, in the pro-life community, that’s all we think about, right? We think of these organizations that are offering free ultrasounds to women. Statistically, between 80 and 90% of women who go to a pregnancy resource center, have the ultrasound and see the picture of the child in the womb will decide to carry the child to term and then either become parents themselves and raise that baby on their own or release the child for adoption. And adoption is such a wonderful way to go, but it starts with an ultrasound and a trip to a pregnancy resource center. I want to encourage you, when you go to our new website, jdfi.net, what you’re going to find is a tab there where you can find a pregnancy resource center near you. And what we encourage you to do and always do, but especially during Sanctity of Life Month, is we encourage you to go to jdfi.net, find that pregnancy resource center, and then start praying for them. Reach out to them locally. Can you volunteer one day a month? Do you have a medical background? You can volunteer to provide medical care. If you don’t have a medical background, you just want to help out, show up. help as a volunteer doing whatever is needed to make sure that that pregnancy resource center can serve the community. The number of pregnancy resources dwarfs the number of abortion clinics in the United States. A lot of people don’t know that. And the work that we are doing through the pregnancy resource centers is absolutely first rate. Ultrasounds, you can get them there. Advice as to whether or not you can continue the pregnancy to become a parent, or if you need an adoption referral, they can help with those as well. But when we take the time to not only pray, but then act upon resources what we’ve been praying about, James tells us that faith without deeds is dead. When we take those first steps, we’re following in the footsteps of pioneers like Dr. James Dobson, who I think rightly so should be referred to as the William Wilberforce of the pro-life community. And that’s why part of the mission, big part of the mission here at the James Dobson Family Institute is to defend the sanctity of human life. Every day, women facing unplanned pregnancies wrestle with fear, pressure, and confusion about their futures. And to be honest, a lot of women were planning on being pregnant once the reality sets in, sometimes begin to have second thoughts and wonder if they’ve got the means to carry on. If they need more than statistics or arguments, they need compassion and truth and practical support to make the right decision. And programs like the one you just heard give us the opportunity to help reach listeners who may be facing those very circumstances right now, to give them biblical hope and to point them toward resources that can help, like our pregnancy resource reference guide. Your partnership makes all the difference. And when you support the ministry of the James Dobson Family Institute, you are helping us continue sharing messages that defend life, strengthen families, and offer biblical truth to those who need it most. I encourage you to join us in this mission as we carry on the legacy of the ministry of Dr. James Dobson. The JDFI is the only organization that Dr. Dobson has ordained to continue We’ll be right back. If it’s easier, you can drop us a line through the U.S. Postal Service. Our ministry mailing address is Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, P.O. Box 39000, Colorado Springs, Colorado, the zip code 80949. Once again, our ministry mailing address is Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, or just use the initials JDFI for short. P.O. Box 39000, Colorado Springs, Colorado, the zip code 80949. Well, I’m Roger Marsh, and I’m so grateful that you tuned in today from all of us here at Family Talk and the JDFI. Thanks so much for listening. Be sure to join us again next time right here for another edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, the voice you can still trust for the family you love. This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.
SPEAKER 04 :
In the typical family today, is dad thought of as a hero or a bum?
SPEAKER 01 :
Here’s today’s Dr. Dobson Minute with Dr. James Dobson.
SPEAKER 04 :
Believe it or not, the answer may depend on what mom thinks. This maternal influence was beautifully described in a book called Fathers and Sons by Louis Jablonski. He told about growing up in a Yiddish home and sitting around the dinner table listening to his mother say things like, Look at your father. His shoulders are bent down. He’s a failure. As a result, his three sons grew up believing that their father really was a wimp. Yablonski concluded with this statement. He said, My overall research clearly supports that the mother is the basic filter and has enormous significance on the father-son relationship. Jablonski is absolutely right. Children tend to see their fathers through the eyes of their mothers, picking up the subtle attitudes that lie just below the surface. For more information, visit drdobsonminute.org.
