In this riveting discussion, Rabbi Cahn unpacks why today’s political landscape might be a reflection of ancient spiritual phenomena. Learn about the mysterious connections between names, birthdates, and global leaders, and how seemingly small details might hold larger, biblical significance. The conversation further explores the hope for a spiritual revival in America amidst a world growing increasingly fractured in its beliefs.
Hello, everyone. You’re listening to Family Talk, a radio broadcasting ministry of the James Dobson Family Institute. I’m Dr. James Dobson, and thank you for joining us for this program. Well, welcome back to Family Talk. I’m Roger Marsh. And on the last edition of our program, we began a fascinating conversation featuring our own Michelle Bachman and Rabbi Jonathan Kahn, who’s written a brand new book called The Avatar, The Return of the Ancients and the Future of America. Right here in the U.S. On today’s edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, we are continuing that conversation as Rabbi Kahn dives deeper into what he calls the quote-unquote avatar mystery, exploring the spiritual significance behind names, birthdates, and even the assassination attempt on the life of Donald Trump. Here now is Michelle Bachman with her guest Rabbi Jonathan Kahn to continue their conversation on today’s edition of Family Talk.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, welcome back to James Dobson Family Talk. We are so thrilled that you’re here. And we are now here for day two with Rabbi Jonathan Cahn. He is talking to us about his new book, which I’m sure will be another bestseller, just came out. The Avatar, The Return of the Ancients, and The Future of America. You can buy this book at Amazon or any bookstore in your local community. You know Jonathan Cahn from his book, The Harbinger, and he’s written many, many New York Times bestsellers since then. So Jonathan Cahn laid the foundation. in yesterday’s program. And so now we’ll continue on today. Thank you so much, Rabbi, for being with us. Let me open up our show today on the Avatar, your latest blockbuster book. What did King Jehu do? He was the righteous king in the northern Israeli kingdom. What did he do upon becoming king? And what does it have to do with our current president, Donald Trump?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, as we were talking about last time, there’s this ancient prototype. It’s amazing because Donald Trump is following in this without knowing it, and that’s Jehu. And Jehu was wild, you know, and Jehu was unpredictable. But Jehu was used by God. It’s not about Jehu. It’s about God. And so it’s not about Trump. It’s about God. And the thing is, what he did is he was anointed to strike down the House of Ahab. And the American House of Ahab is basically what’s been taking over our culture, this anti-biblical agenda that looked like it was going to take over everything. And everything changed with the election. And the thing is that—so what Jehu literally did is he— purged the government of the House of Ahab. And what has Donald Trump been doing? He’s been literally, I mean, you know, the people who hate him say he’s purging the government. Also, Jehu took down the Temple of Baal or dismantled the Temple of Baal, which is used to basically kill children. Well, Donald Trump has been also against abortion. Roe versus Wade has been the American Temple of Baal. And he’s been dismantling these agencies that have gone against the will of God.
SPEAKER 01 :
Again, we’re not lifting up President Trump as an individual person that we’re saying that he is Jehu. What we’re saying is that there is a template in Scripture, and it’s amazing how identical it is. And that’s your latest book called The Avatar, The Return of the Ancients and the Future of America that says, People can buy in any bookstore on Amazon. But I think it’s important for our audience, if they missed yesterday’s show, and please go back and listen to it again, would you state for our audience again, what is an avatar? And who were these god kings, these goddess queens of the pagan world?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, the avatar in these beliefs, you didn’t just have gods. And when you didn’t have God, you had gods. And when, I mean, then these are spirits and these are false gods. But they worship, you didn’t just have gods, you had avatars. And that is that they believed, in other words, that the people, there’d be people who would serve as vessels of these gods or manifestations or images of the gods. For instance, the pharaohs of Egypt were considered avatars. They were to be the living embodiments of these gods. So the kings of Babylon… all throughout the pagan world. And I mean, which goes with the Bible because we’re saying behind these gods are spirits and spirits seek to possess. So what could happen if America has been turning away from God? Okay, you get other things that come in like these gods or the spirits, but could we actually get to the stage where you’re dealing with people or you’re dealing with a son or people who are in effect acting as avatars? And that’s what this is going to reveal.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, and that’s concerning, you know, because the Bible is very bold about who God is. There is no God other than God. It’s the first commandment. That’s right. God is God. But we also know that Satan is real. He’s not a figment of anybody’s imagination. The Bible talks about Satan, but it also talks about the fallen angels and the fact that there is a demonic realm there. So we’re not glorifying Satan. We’re not glorifying the demonic realm. But we’re saying that this is a reality that we have to deal with. So can you talk to us a little bit? You had gone to India. You talked about that in our last show together. But then also you wrote about it in your book. And there you talked about the house of Brahman. And what does the house of Brahman have to do with avatars?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, the word avatar actually comes from Hinduism and these Eastern gods.
SPEAKER 01 :
So Eastern religions, false religions.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes. Yeah. And the thing is that the belief among them is that this particular house or lineage called Brahmin, these are the priests of the gods, actually. The lineage from these come avatars or people who serve as this purpose. Now, from the house of Brahmin was born a person that we know as Kamala Harris. She was born of this house of avatars.
SPEAKER 01 :
Because her mother, her mother was a Hindu.
SPEAKER 03 :
Her mother was a Hindu from the family called Gopalan, which is actually named after an avatar. So you got that to start with. And then you have even the mystery of her name.
SPEAKER 01 :
The mystery of her name. And there were strange similarities between this goddess and Kamala Harris.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, when she’s born, they give her the name Kamala. Now, Kamala is the—and it’s not—listen, again, it’s not about her. She doesn’t know what she’s doing. But Kamala is actually the name of an ancient goddess, a Hindu goddess. And if you missed that, her middle name is Devi, which means literally the goddess. So her name means Kamala the goddess. That’s the first thing. Secondly, her life follows the pattern of the myth of this goddess. You know, the goddess Kamala, according to their belief, is her birth is linked to the ocean and her rise is linked to the ocean. Well, Kamala Harris is born by the ocean, the San Francisco Bay. Her rise comes from San Francisco by the ocean. The goddess Kamala becomes the number two leader in the Hindu pantheon. So Kamala Harris becomes the number two, becomes the vice president. They call Joe Biden, they call him Sleepy Joe. Well, the goddess Kamala is joined to the god Vishnu, who’s the number one in the Hindu baptism, and he’s called the sleeping god. And in Hinduism, you have the concept, you know how Kamala laughs and she laughed, you know, at times it didn’t really make sense. Well, in Hinduism, you have the concept of Devi, which is her middle name, which is the laughing goddess. So even that, I mean, there is so much to this, but it’s crazily but amazing.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, and here in the United States, we’re not a Hindu nation. We’re a Judeo-Christian nation. We don’t really have a strong background or even understanding of Hindu and of these Eastern religions and of the demonic realm and the gods that go along with all of that. And that’s why when we heard Kamala Harris’s name, there was even a question of pronouncing the name. People were castigated if they didn’t pronounce it right. And yet, We find out through your book that her name, her mother being a Hindu, named Kamala Harris for after a goddess. And even her sister’s name was also the name of another goddess in the pantheon. It was amazing how close it was. And so there was a mystery that you talked about of some of these names that I can’t even pronounce.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, I’ll say them. Yeah, here’s the thing. There’s a day of the Hindu year where this goddess is worshipped and they put idols in their house. It’s called Sharad Purnima. Now, Sharad Purnima fell on October 20th, 1964. Kamala Harris was born on October 20th, 1964, the day of the goddess Kamala. I mean, she could not have controlled that, but she is. Let me give you, there’s another one, which is crazy to pronounce. It’s called Jagara Puja. This is the night when they believe that the goddess Kamala enters the world under the full moon. Well, Kamala Harris was born at night, and she was born on that same night when she entered the world when they believe the goddess Kamala enters the world. And the other thing about it, one more thing going deeper, is that there was one day in the Hindu year where they celebrate the birth of the goddess Kamala. Kamala Harris, Kamala, the woman, was born on the day of the birth of the goddess Kamala. And so when she’s born, literally, when she’s born into the world, people all around the world are chanting the name of Kamala. The worshipers are watching. And, you know, listen, the significance here or the sign of the avatar, this is what it’s about, is that, you know, as you said it, we were created, we were founded to be a nation to God’s glory.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
And we are one nation under God. But think about this. Think about this as a sign. Because in the ancient world, you know, it’s kind of like if these spirits can rule the king, they rule the kingdom. So you have somebody whose name means the goddess who is running for president to lead the land. It would be one nation under the goddess. What a sign. You know, and that’s where we were going when you take out God. So and that’s what we were saved from as well. But these are the stakes that we were dealing with.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, and it’s incredible how it was really opposite ends of the spectrum, the choices that people were giving. And so we see these avatars, which is a spirit embodiment of a human being. I think that’s what you’re talking about, that there is a spiritual realm. There’s God. God came to this earth. He humbled himself and he came to this earth in the form of Jesus and his Holy Spirit. was and continues to be on this earth. And we know that there is a demonic realm, a satanic realm. And so in these false religions, there is a satanic realm. And it’s interesting how you have discovered all of these details about that and that even here in America, a choice was given to the American people and one that represented something so opposite from the other. So this mystery goes still one step deeper. Could you talk about that?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, this will go into that of the image. I mean, so if we can take this in, that, listen, she’s named after the goddess, born on the day of the goddess, born on the night of the goddess entering the world, enters the world, and born on the birth date of the goddess Kamala, of all things. Nobody could have controlled that. But then there’s the image. You see, in ancient times, when you had the kings and the pharaohs who ruled over the pagan world, they made images of them where they merged the person, the leader, the king or the queen, with the god or goddess that they represented. So that’s why when you look at the pictures of the pharaohs, they have all this stuff around them. Well, that’s linked to the god. Could there actually be that with Kamala Harris? And just before she entered the White House for the first time, an image appears on the internet. And the image was actually put up by her own family. And what it shows is it’s the image of Kamala Harris merged with the image of a Hindu goddess, literally. It’s her face, and it’s a Hindu goddess with many arms on the internet. It’s the avatar. It’s the merging of a person with a god. And she’s riding into war. Now, this is another strange thing about it. She’s riding into war and she’s fighting a creature where they put the head of Donald Trump on it. And she’s riding on a lion that they put the head of Biden on it. Now, on top of everything, this is 2020.
SPEAKER 01 :
So this was done by Kamala Harris’s team.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. By her niece. Yes. By her niece. Yes. Okay. Yes. And that’s right. And the thing is that this was in 2020, but it’s showing her as the contender against Donald Trump. She wasn’t the, it was Joe Biden who was the presidential candidate, but it’s showing her as if she was, and she’s riding on top of Biden. So that, you know, him support that was in 2024, not 2020. So it was almost like a prophetic image, but here is the ancient image. This is what happened. You look at the engravings of Egypt in, and you’re seeing it on the internet manifest. I mean, how stunning is that? They actually merged her with a Hindu goddess, her own family.
SPEAKER 01 :
And all of this sounds very complicated, but our beloved friend, Rabbi Jonathan Cahn, a Messianic rabbi of his congregation in New Jersey, he’s written many, many New York Times bestseller books. The newest one, The Avatar, that’s what we’re discussing today, The Return of the Ancients and the Future of America. You can buy this book anywhere online. And so you’re trying to explain this for us. So if it’s complicated, please make sure you buy this book, buy this for your friends so that they can understand. So could you tell us, Rabbi, what does this sign of the avatar mean for us, for those of us here in America? What does it mean for America?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, it means that we were that close. Here’s a nation that the foundation is totally of God. We existed for God’s purpose. We existed to fulfill, you know, the Puritans, you know, committed America, consecrated it to God. And then again, you know, we’ve been re-consecrated to God. and his purposes, but we have been so much, our culture has been so much pushing God out and driving God out that we actually had a person running for the highest leader of the land, to rule the land, not only with an agenda that went against the Bible in life, in gender, in everything, religious freedom. I mean, everything was radical. but also that was named the goddess and named after a Hindu goddess. So it would be that the leader of America would be called the goddess. So it’s like a sign of where we are when you turn away from God. But the thing is that we were spared for now because it went to another.
SPEAKER 01 :
That’s what’s so shocking, that America could be founded on such a firm foundation. And yet, as you write in your book, The Avatar, in the 2020 and the 2024 race, we see how America was choosing the exact opposite of what America was founded on. But would you tell our audience in this show, what is the final mystery that you write about in The Avatar of Donald Trump?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, it goes even deeper. You know, we talk about Jehu, but actually Jehu, when he was announced king, they sounded the trumpets or the shofar. So there’s a mystery. Let me think about it. His name means, we talk about Kamala Harris’s name. Donald Trump’s name means Trump. In English, it’s the trumpet. Now, the thing is that, and I spoke about the day of the birth of Kamala Harris. Is there a mystery or something that manifested on the day of Donald Trump’s birth? Well, when he was born, he wasn’t born on a pagan holiday. He was born on a biblical holy day. He was born on Friday. Friday ushers in the Sabbath. And so, and every Sabbath, so all around the world, they’re reading scripture. Because every Sabbath, there was an appointed scripture to be read. It’s appointed from ages past for that particular day or that particular Sabbath. So what was the scripture appointed for the Sabbath on which Donald Trump was born? Think about it. The scripture was God calling into being Christ. an instrument, a vessel, literally a trumpet. It’s literally about the trumpet. And so, you know, and it’s like, you know, a trumpet’s loud, a trumpet is jarring, you know, but a trumpet is, it doesn’t have to know what it’s doing, but it’s used by God. So the mystery is even there from the day of his birth.
SPEAKER 01 :
And that’s the scripture that’s on the calendar of readings in the Jewish world, right?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes. And you know, when I mentioned the scripture that says, sound the trumpet when you’re in war, sound the trumpet of the enemy will be defeated. Well, that was also appointed for the day of Donald Trump’s birth.
SPEAKER 01 :
And that means victory. That’s what that means.
SPEAKER 03 :
So what does this have to do with the gods? Well, remember, you know, in the beginning I shared, I sounded, you know, the Bible speaks about the trumpet and warfare and I’m sounding the trumpet in India and we see this mass thing with it. And then the trumpet in India, it’s actually the trumpet on the plate on that image that struck the head of the idol. So the trumpet actually, it’s saying that Trump is not only someone who’s used politically, but ultimately it’s spiritually. It’s against the spirits. You know, when he says and declares there’s only male and female. on his first day. You know, that’s against the gods. That’s against the agenda of Ishtar, which was to merge genders. When he talks about life or he comes against abortion, that’s against Malik. That’s against Baal. So it’s literally that. And when you think about that, when you mentioned it, you know, you said, well, you know, what a choice we had. Well, think about this. I mean, if you pull away the veil, and that is that one person who was running for president, his name means the trumpet, you know, Trump. And the other one, their name, the one who’s running, his name means the goddess, right? So you have the trumpet and the goddess or the spirit and the trumpet prevailed and the goddess fled.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, and that’s why I think your book is so interesting, The Avatar, The Return of the Ancients and the Future of America, because we see this template in the scripture and we just see it repeated throughout history. And I think that’s why our audience will find this so interesting. Jonathan Cahn is a beloved author. messianic leader in America, and he’s very well known. He’s had over 100 million views on YouTube, and he writes prophetically. He looks at what the scripture says, and he unfolds what the scripture says in our day and time. We’re grateful for the ministry that you have And so in your book, you also reveal the mystery of an ancient priesthood that lay behind the assassination attempt on Donald Trump’s life. That was in, it was July 13th. I’ll never forget it. July 13th, 2024, Butler, Pennsylvania. So talk about this ancient priesthood that lay behind the assassination attempt. Yes.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. Now, Jehu was the only king of the northern kingdom where the Bible actually records that he was anointed. And now the first anointing in the Bible, or the most massive detailed, is the anointing of the priesthood. If you’re going to serve God, you’re going to be anointed. And so they would anoint the priest to serve the purposes of God. In the priestly anointing, they weren’t just anointed by oil, they were anointed by blood. And the blood had to touch the ear of the one being called to the office. That’s in the Bible.
SPEAKER 01 :
That’s written in the Bible.
SPEAKER 03 :
It is. And it wasn’t only miraculous that Donald Trump, that was a miracle, but it also, it touched his ear. It had to touch the right ear. It touches his right ear. Had to touch the tip of the right ear, touches the tip of Trump’s right ear. Then the blood has to touch the hand. And so the first thing that Trump does is he brings his hand up to touch the blood and it has to touch the right hand. It’s his right hand. It has to touch the thumb, the right thumb. It touches, the right thumb goes up to his ear. The next thing is the feet. Now, the feet, we can’t say what happened because we’d have pictures of it. But in order for the blood to touch the feet, his shoes had to be removed. Trump is then pushed down to the place where the blood had gone down. And literally, his shoes are removed. He says, I need my shoes.
SPEAKER 01 :
I remember that. I remember the Secret Service were trying to get him off the stage. And he said, I need my shoes. So obviously, his shoes were off. Yeah, what’s that about?
SPEAKER 03 :
But in the priestly anointing, the shoes have to be removed. And some of the commentaries, Michelle, will talk about the priestess being the candidate for the priesthood, and then they go into the office of the priesthood. So here you have the candidate. Now, the thing is, the whole thing takes seven days. The seventh day is when the priest gets really invested with the office. Well, if you take when this happened, this was, as you said, it was that Saturday and it happened in the daytime. Now the Hebrew day begins at sundown. So that the first day is when it happened. Then sundown comes sundown to sundown. That’s the second day. So you keep counting. When do you get to the, what’s the seventh day? When you get to the seventh day that anything happened, the seventh day is the day that Donald Trump received the nomination to become president of the United States. The seventh day into the office. I mean, for the moment this happened, Michelle, it was sealed.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yep. No accident.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, and I think what you have shown us again is that God is so loving. He is so good to the United States that he is giving us hope and an opportunity to reject these false gods that have come into the United States. How weird is this? In about five minutes, it seems like America said, you’re a bigot if you don’t believe that little boys can become girls. But what you’ve given us here is not just the problem. You’ve given us a solution. And so just state one more time for our audience the solution that you state so well in your new book for America, that we’re not without hope. We have hope. And let our listeners know what that hope is.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, there is only one hope. And the problem isn’t cultural and economic and political. The problem is ultimately spiritual. When we turn away from God, the only way is to return to God. And the thing is that that God is always a God of hope. Literally, he has given us a window. And so the thing is, we can’t just pray for revival. We have to do that as never before. But we have to actually choose to live in revival. Because if we start living in revival, then revival begins. And so that is the hope. God is the God of hope. And listen, this is the most exciting. I don’t know about you, Michelle. I’m sure you feel the same way. This is what we’re born for. This is what we are called for. Don’t be afraid of it because God chose you to be in this time. He chose us to be here. So let’s go full out for God. Our God is on the throne.
SPEAKER 01 :
Amen. It’s written in the Bible that the prophets who wrote the early scriptures, they long to live in this moment of history. That’s why this book, The Avatar, is so important. I want to thank you, Rabbi Jonathan Cahn, for being on this Dr. Dobson’s family talk show today. And we’re so grateful that you could speak to this audience that we are not without a hope. We have a hope if we look to the scripture, because what does discipleship means? It means read the word and obey it. And we may read it, but if we don’t obey it, then we are no better off than any other individual. This is the moment to lift up and revere the scriptures. Every word is God-breathed. Every word is true. And it’s our time to obey those words. And you have given us this moment. You’ve tied it together, and we can’t thank you enough. So thank you, Rabbi Kahn.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, thank you, Michelle. It’s always a joy. Thank you.
SPEAKER 01 :
And again, how can our audience get a copy of this book for themselves?
SPEAKER 03 :
Literally, the Avatar is everywhere. But if you go online right now, you’ll see it. If you go on Amazon or any place you get books, you’ll see the Avatar. Make sure it’s not the movie. It says the Avatar, the return of the ancients and the future of America. And think of people in your life who need to be saved or need to know or be awakened, even if they aren’t saved. Get it for them, too, because this is the hour.
SPEAKER 01 :
Amen. God bless you and God bless all of you in this audience. Amen.
SPEAKER 02 :
Rabbi Jonathan Cahn’s words really resonate. God chose you to be in this time. That’s a sobering reminder that we are living in a moment of history with eternal significance. Friend, you’ve been listening to a special edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk featuring Michelle Bachman’s eye-opening conversation with Rabbi Jonathan Cahn centering on his latest book, which is called The Avatar. The Return of the Ancients and the Future of America. Now, if you missed any portion of today’s broadcast, or if you’d like to go back and hear part one again, go to drjamesdobson.org slash family talk. And by the way, when you’re online with us there, you’ll also find information about Rabbi Kahn’s new book called The Avatar, The Return of the Ancients and the Future of America. It was just released a couple of weeks ago. You know, the spiritual battle for America’s soul that Rabbi Kahn described isn’t just a political or cultural issue. It’s deeply personal for every family seeking to follow God. That’s why the work of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute remains so essential. Through daily broadcasts and biblical resources, we are equipping parents and families to stand strong in their faith while promoting the sanctity of human life. biblical sexuality, religious freedom, and righteousness in our culture. And your partnership makes this mission possible. To make a secure donation to continue to extend Dr. Dobson’s legacy, go to drjamesdobson.org. You can also give a gift over the phone when you call our constituent care team. That number is 877-732-6825. Well, I’m Roger Marsh, inviting you to join us again next time right here for another edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, the voice you can still trust for the family you love. This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.
