Join us as Pastor Skip Heitzig shares his insights on the invisible war described in the book of Daniel. From the intricate web of prophecies to the role of nation-assigned angels, this episode sheds light on the miraculous consistency and divine intervention evident in God’s Word. Discover how these scriptural truths resonate with contemporary challenges and personal experiences, providing guidance and hope in tumultuous times.
You’re listening to Family Talk, the radio broadcasting division of the James Dobson Family Institute. I am that James Dobson, and I’m so pleased that you’ve joined us today.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, welcome to Family Talk, the broadcast division of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute. I’m Roger Marsh, and today we’re continuing an enlightening conversation featuring Pastor Skip Heitzik discussing his book called The Bible from 30,000 Feet. Skip Heitzik is founder and senior pastor of Calvary Church in Albuquerque, New Mexico. His passion for making scripture accessible has resulted in a unique resource that helps readers gain a clearer understanding of God’s Word by viewing it from a broader perspective. Now, on our last broadcast, Dr. Dobson and Skip Heitzik began exploring how the Bible’s 66 books, written by 40 different authors over 1,500 years, tell one single coherent story. On today’s Family Talk broadcast, they’ll dive deeper into fascinating biblical prophecies and discuss how these mathematical impossibilities point to divine authorship. So let’s join Dr. James Dobson and his guest, Pastor Skip Heitzik, right now for part two of this engaging discussion about the Bible from 30,000 feet on today’s edition of Family Talk.
SPEAKER 03 :
Pastor, one of the last questions I asked you last time is whether you’d been to the Bible Museum in Washington, D.C., and you said you really wanted to do that. That, I wish every Christian would Because you get a perspective of the influence of this one book on the human race all the way from the Garden of Eden to today and the prophecies that are in there and all the different translations. And it’s just a wonderful experience. This has captured your heart as well, hasn’t it?
SPEAKER 02 :
Sure has.
SPEAKER 03 :
Because this book consists of 66 books, 1,500 years of time.
SPEAKER 02 :
Forty different authors from every conceivable walk of life with the same and single message. How could that be?
SPEAKER 03 :
These people spoke with three different languages across all this time. They weren’t in communication with each other, and yet it all makes one story.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah. You know, the scripture, Dr. Dobson, that really got my attention was Daniel chapter 9. That’s called the backbone of prophecy, as you know, where Daniel, through the angel Gabriel, gives the exact timing of the coming of the Messiah. And then Jesus on the Mount of Olives said he holds them accountable, saying, if only you would have known the things that make for your peace in this your day, but they’ve been hidden from your eyes. Therefore, your enemies will cast an embankment around you and Jerusalem will fall, what happened in 70 A.D. But he is referencing, I believe, what Daniel the prophet said as the timetable for the coming of their Messiah and held them accountable to know that. What is it, 490 years? 483 years from March 14, 445 B.C. to April 6, 32 A.D., Or exactly 173,880 days from that commandment until the Messiah came on the 10th of Nisan. Exactly to the day.
SPEAKER 03 :
That couldn’t have happened.
SPEAKER 02 :
Mathematically impossible.
SPEAKER 03 :
Those who are skeptical about the scriptures and the prophecies, what are you going to do with this?
SPEAKER 02 :
Exactly. In fact, I’ve led doctors in hospitals to Christ over that prophecy and showing them the impossibility of fulfillment without a divine author.
SPEAKER 03 :
And obviously, God was leading in the affairs of men all the way along. Let me keep you in the book of Daniel for a moment. And I have opened the scripture to chapter 10, beginning with verse 7. And let me read this and then ask you to comment on it. Daniel was the only one who saw the vision. He had just fallen and had seen a vision. And those who were there with me did not see it. But such terror overwhelmed them that they fled and hid themselves. So I was left alone gazing at the great vision and I had no strength at all. My face was deathly pale and I was helpless. And then I heard him speaking as I listened to him, and I fell into a deep sleep with my face to the ground. Now, he’s talking about the angel Michael. And we go on to verse 10. A hand touched me and set me trembling on my hands and knees. And he said, Daniel— You who are highly esteemed, consider carefully the words that I’m about to speak to you and stand up, for I have now been sent to you. And when he said this to me, I stood up trembling. And then he continued. This is the verse that I would like you to comment on. Do not be afraid, Daniel, since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God. In other words, Daniel has been praying and asking the Lord for a favor. And Michael said, your words were heard and I’ve come in response to them. But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me 21 days. And then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me. because I was detained there with the king of Persia. Now I have come to explain to you what will happen to your people in the future for the vision concerns a time to come. Now what is confusing about that and I’d like you to address it, is here you have Daniel talking to God himself, and then Michael says, I was detained there with the king of Persia. In other words, there’s this warfare going on, and God himself didn’t prevent it from occurring. And then finally, Michael breaks through and said, I’ve come to explain to you what will happen to your people in the future for the vision concerns you. A time yet to come. That, I’m sure theologians have dealt with. I’m certainly not equipped to explain it except that there is this collision between good and evil, between Michael, one of the foremost angels, and the prince of Persia. What do you make out of that?
SPEAKER 02 :
The fact that it’s written down is to give Daniel and thus us insight into this, what Donald Gray Barnhouse called the invisible war. It’s such a great title, and he outlines in that book, But also the idea that if the plan of God to rescue a world depended on the existence of a nation, Israel, if that nation can be eliminated, then God’s plan would be thwarted. And so the invisible war all the way from the proto-evangelium of Genesis 3, you know, the seed of the woman will crush the head of the serpent. From that promise onward, you start seeing all this warfare take place where Satan is doing everything he can to make sure that that seed isn’t produced who’s going to come and crush his kingdom. And that’s all the stuff played out in the Bible, including Daniel 10.
SPEAKER 03 :
What do you do with David and his experience and how God loved him? He was a man after his own heart, and yet he was an adulterer and a murderer. How can that fit?
SPEAKER 02 :
That’s a great question. And that is part of the mercy of God that we, on one hand, we gasp at, but we’re so thankful for God’s mercy in our own lives. Listen, God’s covenants are sometimes conditional covenants where there’s two parts to them. There’s God’s part and your part. But then there’s unconditional covenants. Like God says, I will do this. I will do that. Genesis 12, I will make you a great nation. It has nothing to do with you, Abraham. It’s an unconditional covenant. It’s solely dependent on my design and my desire to work through you. Other covenants like the law of Moses was a conditional covenant. So you see the interplay of God’s unconditional covenant to produce Messiah through the nation of Israel, but then a conditional covenant where Israel as a nation wouldn’t be able to enjoy the blessings of God without a certain amount of obedience. But even then, God understood that they would disobey and be taken captive and then predicted, I’ll bring you back and give you a second chance. And the new generation will have repented of the old sins.
SPEAKER 03 :
Talk about David and Nathan. That’s a story that I love.
SPEAKER 02 :
I love the story because I named my own son after Nathan in the Bible. And he was a prophet? Yes, he was a prophet. And he came to David and he got right in his face and called him out on a sin. And what was the sin? His sin was adultery. And he had taken Bathsheba and he had killed Uriah the Hittite. And he was trying to cover it up for a long time. So David is in his palace and the prophet Nathan comes to him. And Nathan says, David, I got a story for you. There was a rich man who had many flocks, many herds, but he had somebody coming in from out of town as a guest. And instead of taking one of his many animals, he took a poor man’s single little ewe lamb and butchered it and used that to feed his company. And David said, the man that has done this thing will surely die. And as he’s getting all hot under the collar, Nathan pauses and looks at him and he says, you are the man. You have been given many blessings by God and many wives and kingdoms, and God would even have given you more. But you took somebody else’s wife and killed the husband. So it was a parable to get to his own behavior.
SPEAKER 03 :
Let’s move now to the New Testament and the Messiah is coming. What about that whole miraculous event do you want to comment on?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, you know, Jesus came, and when Matthew writes the Gospel of Matthew, there’s a frequently used phrase, and it’s the one that it might be fulfilled, which was spoken by the prophet. He’s always making reference to the fact that this is anticipated in the writings of the Hebrews. Jesus is the fulfillment of a long anticipated desire the Jewish people have had, and the Direct predictions that have been made in their writings about this coming one, this deliverer, this Mashiach, Messiah. And so, no wonder when Jesus is born, do the angels light up the sky and proclaim glory in the heavens because he has finally arrived. In the city of Bethlehem, which Micah the prophet, back in chapter 5, verse 2 of his book, announced would come. And Isaiah said, a virgin will conceive and bear a child. So it’s the culmination of redemptive history when the child is introduced into the world as a savior.
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, the story that I love, again, is where Jesus came to John the Baptist to be baptized of him. the white dove comes and rests on Jesus. I can’t imagine anyone, any one of us, experiencing anything quite like that that was more exciting or fulfilling or awe-inspiring than to have the God of the universe say, I love this man. This is my son, and I’m well pleased with him. And the next moment, Verse says, That’s amazing to me. He went from the high point of his life to the low point in one verse there. And if it symbolizes anything for us, is becoming a believer does not eliminate all the problems. That’s right. And you’re still going to have to deal with Satan.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah. And there’s a verse in Luke where after that temptation, it says Satan left him. And the verse that always stuck out to me, until he had an opportune time. So it wasn’t over for him. Satan was looking for the right moment to strike. And the insight I’ve always gleaned out of that is he and his minions are watching us very carefully for weak moments and opportunities to get at us. So it happened to Christ. It certainly happens to all of us.
SPEAKER 03 :
There’s another verse that – is in Deuteronomy, I believe. You’ll have to correct me. Where we’re told that there is an angel assigned to every nation to watch over them. And there are also satanic forces that are also assigned to each nation. Do you know what I’m talking about?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes. I mean from several verses put together that make mention of that. Like we talked about Daniel a while back and the prince of Persia. There’s like a demonic being assigned to a nation. And when I think about the prince of Persia and at that time a superpower and a monumentally powerful wicked empire. What must the Prince of San Francisco be like or Las Vegas? I mean, the kind of places that produce such vile filth and challenge our culture. But just as there are angels assigned to those places, you know, Jesus spoke about their angels when he was referring to children, the fact that they have their angels. And I love the thought that God also has protective beings around those most vulnerable ones. I have a passion in writing this book or any other book, and that is they’re mostly Bible themes or the explanation of a Bible book. And it’s because as a pastor, I live in a culture where I realize more and more church people are biblically illiterate. They know certain Bible verses, but some of the Bible verses they know aren’t even really Bible verses. We kind of grow up in family traditions, and Christians take stories they hear or messages they’ve heard from people, preachers, friends, and they think that’s gospel truth. What I want to do is push people deeper to get a working knowledge of the Bible for themselves. Do you think God knows me well?
SPEAKER 03 :
Different from every other person who ever lived. Absolutely.
SPEAKER 02 :
You think he knows my name. He knows your name. He knows the hairs on your head. Does he know my thoughts? Yes, he does. Every thought you think before you even think them. Psalm 139. You know my thoughts are far off. If I were to add them together, they would be more in number than the sands of the sea.
SPEAKER 03 :
Can you imagine that there are millions and millions of people out there, some of them listening to us, Who think that they’re alone in the universe, that nobody cares, that they have no meaning and no purpose. There’s no direction. Sure. There’s no right. There’s no wrong. There’s no heaven. There’s no hell. There’s no reason for me to live. I was an accident of nature with molecules and cells working and producing the person that I am. And when I get up in the morning and I go out to do my job, it has no significance other than earning a living. My life is completely meaningless. You’ve met many, many people like that.
SPEAKER 02 :
Many people. When I was first studying for radiology and my professors were all medical doctors and most of them were atheists or agnostic. I think I found one who said he was a believer. But some of them were vitriolic against the Christian faith. I mean they were enemies of the truth and they did everything they could to dissuade me. I remember I had a professor of integrated zoology who said, is anybody in my class a Christian or believe in God? I raised my hand. I was the only student except one girl who started to raise her hand and she pulled it down because the intimidation. And the professor looked at me and said, my aim in this class is to overturn your belief system and get you to believe in science, the truth, not any of this mythology.
SPEAKER 03 :
How did you deal with that?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, it was a crisis. And I remember I got to— Did he tug you in his direction? He tried to. And I understood the evidence he was producing. And I didn’t know there was any good Christian evidence at the time against that or to be equipped with. So I remember going to my home, to my apartment in San Bernardino and saying, I’m not going to believe this if it’s just a fairy tale, if it can’t be substantiated with facts. But it was a crisis of faith for me. It was then that I found a little book that changed my life and it was called Evidence That Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell. And it was filled with the research that he had taken to college campuses around America to deal with students who felt that very same way. And I ate it up. I memorized large sections of it. It was like gold to me. And I remember going back to my professors and back to my fellow students and purposely engaging them in conversations of faith so I could present this evidence. Finding that when you give them good evidence, they start faltering and questioning their own belief system. And it was like payday for me. It’s like I struck paydirt. This stuff, truth is amazing. And I was able to not only challenge people in their evolutionary belief system, but see many of them come to faith in Christ. One was an emergency room doctor in Orange County. He became my roommate before I got married. Todd Evolution in Philadelphia before he became a doctor. Didn’t believe in God, saw the evidence, was converted, and is a believer to this day.
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, if there’s one thing I would like to come out of this conversation today, it’s right here at this point. We’re talking to people who just have decided that life has no meaning and that God does not exist and he does not know me and doesn’t care and there is no God, if these words are going out and are describing somebody who’s listening to us, maybe a college student, maybe somebody who’s been under the influence of the kind of man that you talked about, I want to urge them to go get a copy of the book you just mentioned. Mm-hmm. millions of people had their eyes open to what is the evidence that demands a verdict.
SPEAKER 02 :
Josh and Sean McDowell, his son, together re-released this book. It’s greatly expanded. It’s easier to read than the first version. And it’s filled with the kind of evidence that can match any skeptic, any skeptic. I would challenge someone who would be listening who would think, oh, no, I know far too much. Read through this book, and one of the great things, it highlights some of the classic atheists who have come to Christ, people through history who have not believed, people from different walks of life, and the common experience of salvation and what God can do to change them.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, we’re coming toward the end of this second program, and I want to make sure we get the essence of what you’re saying here. And if I put it into my own words and then I want you to express yours, it is the fact that this book is not only a history book. It goes back for 6,000 or more years and describes God’s relationship with man and the Jewish people and the other things in the Scripture and the coming of the Messiah. It is relevant to you and me today.
SPEAKER 02 :
That’s right.
SPEAKER 03 :
What we live, what we think, what we’re afraid of, what we’re depressed by, what we are confused by.
SPEAKER 02 :
Every human being comes into this world and has questions. Everyone at some point questions why I’m here, the big issues of life, where am I going, what’s the purpose of my life, is there a purpose and meaning? The Bible answers that. It anticipates that. I mean, there have been thousands of generations of people who have struggled with those same questions. And the Bible gives solid answers. I love what Peter said, that God has given us all things that pertain to life and godliness through the knowledge of him. It’s like life is jumbled up and doesn’t make sense until you put God in it, until you include him in it and have a relationship with him. Then it’s like it’s the missing piece to the puzzle. that unlocks the meaning of life.
SPEAKER 03 :
The name of the book is The Bible from 30,000 Feet, Soaring Through the Scriptures. Skip Heitzig is the author, pastor of a huge church in Albuquerque. And this book is a tool that I do hope our listeners will get. You know, we read the Bible. Sometimes we understand it. Sometimes we don’t. This gives you a view of From 30,000 feet.
SPEAKER 02 :
What a great title and a great concept. I think there’s a great advantage to be able to see how all of God’s Word over that vast panorama of time, how it fits together, how something anticipated is fulfilled, and how God ties bows on different parts of history and makes sense of it. And then you can make sense out of your life. Does a relationship with Jesus Christ still apply to today? Absolutely, even more so than ever. I came to Christ in 1973. He changed my thinking. I still live for him. I still love to read through the scriptures. It never gets old to me. A day without the Bible is a lost day for me. It’s a wasted day.
SPEAKER 03 :
Thank you so much for coming and being with us. I appreciate your friendship, new friendships. And I hope we can extend it. Thank you, Dr. Dobson. A privilege to be here. Get this book, folks. Thanks for being with us.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, what an extraordinary journey through the Bible that we’ve taken on today’s edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk. Dr. Dobson’s guest has been Pastor Skip Heitzik, and we’ve been discussing the Bible from 30,000 feet. Now, if today’s conversation sparked your curiosity to learn more, you can go to drjamesdobson.org forward slash family talk. There you can listen to both parts one and two of this enlightening conversation. You can also learn more about Pastor Skip Heitzik’s book called The Bible from 30,000 Feet. Again, you’ll find all that information and more at drjamesdobson.org forward slash family talk. You know, conversations like the one we heard today exemplify why the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute exists, to introduce as many people as possible to the gospel of Jesus Christ and to help them discover God’s transforming truth. Right now, your partnership can have double the impact. Thanks to some generous friends of our ministry, every gift we receive this month will be matched dollar for dollar through our June matching grant. Now, you can make your tax-deductible donation over the phone when you call 877-732-6825. That’s 877-732-6825. Or you can make a secure donation online at drjamesdobson.org. And whether you call or click with your gift, remember that we’ll be happy to send you a copy of Dr. Dobson’s book, Your Legacy, as well as the companion DVD, It’s our way of thanking you for your donation of any amount in support of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute today. Again, call 877-732-6825 or go to drjamesdobson.org. Or you can give a gift through the mail when you write to Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, P.O. Box 39000, Colorado Springs, Colorado, the zip code 80949. Well, I’m Roger Marsh, and on behalf of Dr. James Dobson and all of us here at the JDFI, thanks so much for listening today. Be sure to join us again next time right here for another edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, the voice you trust for the family you love. This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.
