In this episode, discover the remarkable journey of faith guided by wisdom from above rather than intellect alone. Experience the story of Daniel and his unwavering faith that saw him through changing empires and numerous rulers. Listen as Barbara and Kimberly share powerful personal experiences that illustrate the divine blessings of trusting in God’s plan. Reflect on the true essence of knowledge as a relational connection with God that transcends mere facts.
Welcome to Call to Freedom with Barbara Carmack. This is Jimmy Lakey, and I’m delighted that you are joining us for this half hour. You can reach Call to Freedom at Box 370367, Denver, Colorado 80237, or by going to the website at www.freedomstreet.org. If you want to leave a message or order a Word Power Daily Reading Bible Guide or a Freedom Street Express newsletter, you can call us toll free at 1-877-917-7256 and leave your name and address, including your zip code. If you want to talk to Barbara right now, she is expecting your call. You may call that same toll-free number, 1-877-917-7256 to speak to her. And now, let’s join Barbara in the studio.
SPEAKER 04 :
Welcome to Call to Freedom. May your life in every way bring glory to the Father. and blessing to you. I’ll tell you, when you give God the glory and you honor his name above everything else on this earth, then blessing will come to you multiplied and multiplied, layer upon layer. But we’ve got to become attentive to God’s ways. We’ve got to be attentive to God’s presence. It’s so important, folks. It really is. Today, I saw two 100-foot flagpoles being installed at the White House, one on the South Lawn and one on the North Lawn. And these flags, you know, I fly a flag all the time in my backyard. It’s a 6×10. These flags are humongous. And President Trump did that, and all the family were there, including not Melania, but his daughter’s husband. Oh, I forgot his name right now. Kimberly, are you there?
SPEAKER 03 :
I’m here, but I can’t help you with that.
SPEAKER 1 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 03 :
I was thinking, oh, don’t ask me.
SPEAKER 04 :
I’ve got it. Jared Kushner. His parents were there because President Trump wanted to spotlight Jared’s father. So, you know, when I get together with you, Kimberly, something that I didn’t remember before. I remember when you’re with me. I don’t know. And you said that today as we were talking this morning. You said that. Yeah, that’s withness. Somebody is the power of witness, not witness, but with.
SPEAKER 03 :
And I remember I really love that. I need the people like you who stay in touch with the things that are going on in this world. And it’s not that I’m afraid of those things in this world, but I don’t have time for it. Like I am so content to be reading and praying and worshiping and And I know that sounds ultra religious, but it’s honestly just what I love. I love to do. I remember when I got a job when I was 18 years old and somebody, the person that hired me, wanted to know what my favorite hobby was. And I was like, I love to read. What do you love to read? I love to read my Bible more than anything else. That’s what I have loved in my lifetime. And again, when I was 21, same thing. I got a job and somebody asked me my favorite hobby. That was my favorite hobby. And, you know, people say, well, that’s an unusual love of life. That’s an unusual hobby. And it is. That is my very favorite thing. I like that more than watching movies, more than reading any other book, more than… going hiking or traveling or eating. I do love food.
SPEAKER 04 :
You know that. Yes. And you know, Kimberly, it’s important to note that the hobby of reading and studying your Bible is occupying your entire life. I mean, your mother is now, well, 23 years older than you are, and I am still learning. That Bible hobby is such a blessed thing. It really is. It is. I’m glad you said that to people.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, and so I don’t have enough time to be staying in touch with everything else in the world. So I just let you and my other friends and Matthew’s great attitude just fill me in on what’s going on. I’m glad that there are some great big new flags going up. Yes, 100-foot flagpoles.
SPEAKER 04 :
I know. They’re huge. They’re humongous. And today, it was so interesting because when you called this morning just to talk to me and try to get me to get some of my photos into my email, which it’s going to happen, but it’s a little bit slower with me. And this guy in the background was going, wow. And he was drilling and sawing, and it was wily. And it’s so interesting, Kimberly, we found an on-air light. that Darren had used at Darren’s coffee shop. And he was on KLT.
SPEAKER 03 :
It was in one of your drawers there at the house.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes, and he had used it when he was on KLT in 1982, let’s see, 1981 through 87 or 88. So that’s the same on-air light. And so you brought it, you took it to your house, and you’ve had it over your door. I did.
SPEAKER 03 :
I love it. But I kind of rigged it over my door. I plugged it in. So it’s something that you plug in right to an outlet. And I plugged it into an extension cord and ran that under my door and plugged it into the wall. And I’ve used that just to let my family know when I’m live on the air, I close the door to my room. Because if they come walking in from work or school or whatever they’re doing and they want to barge in, sometimes that really interrupts my train of thought. And so I just like them to know when I’m live on the air. So I rigged it and Wiley looked at it and he said, you know what? Let’s just make another switch so you can just switch it on. So he’s been drilling, going through the wall, putting electricity to it so that that very little on-air sign can still be above my door, but now attached to a switch instead of attached to an extension cord that runs under the door. It’s just going to be all clean and convenient now.
SPEAKER 04 :
It’s so amazing how God works things out the way he does. And I know you’re going to be talking about that. But the fact, Darren would be so pleased. He would be absolutely excited and pleased. And to know that when he was on the air 30, 40 years ago, that you would have his sign above your door doing the very same thing, being on the air. On radio. I mean, how God does things, Kimberly, is just miraculous. I would have never thought, you know, we were both into the piano and organs, you know, stuff. And you especially teaching and that kind of thing. But selling, boy, you are a good salesperson when it comes to selling pianos. And then to have that major switch over and into radio. I mean, God is so wonderful. Oh, he’s so good. He’s such a good God.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I’m just I’m getting emotional about it. Just thinking about it with you right now. I know. And having knowledge is not what brought me to this place. And that’s what we want to talk about today is the idea of knowledge, because I wasn’t smart enough to put myself on a path like that and to end up here. I could never have done that. And I was reading about Daniel earlier this morning and how he had favor with five different kings. What a miracle that is. And when I was picturing the five different presidents that we’ve had in office over the last… 30, 40 years. Just kind of going through in my mind all the different personalities and the different ways that they wanted to lead. Not one person lasted through all of those presidents, you know, but here’s Daniel. lasting through five different kings. And that’s not even the most astounding part of it. What’s really amazing is that it was two different empires. There was the Babylonian empire that he came in under and two kings, he served two kings with the Babylonian empire in place. But then Persia comes in and the Persian rule just decimates Babylon and takes over. And that’s a completely different way of thinking and leading. But Daniel served three of the Persian kings. Yes. They loved him. They sought after him. They wanted what he had to offer. And the whole time he was a slave, a servant.
SPEAKER 04 :
Isn’t that amazing?
SPEAKER 03 :
How in the world?
SPEAKER 04 :
How does that happen? Only by the grace of God.
SPEAKER 03 :
right it wasn’t because daniel was smart that’s not enough that’s not enough in this world we do seek education and we seek knowledge and we want our intellect we we think a high iq is what we would want to be after in this life but that is not what god uses god anoints what those who find him Those who know him, those who gain knowledge of the Lord the way that God delights in it, they’re the ones who have the anointing and are infused with a wisdom that is so much higher than this world’s wisdom. And I think we all need a little dose of that.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes. Amen.
SPEAKER 03 :
I know that at this point in my life. Yeah, go ahead.
SPEAKER 04 :
I know that President Trump went through, you know, all these presidents from, oh, my goodness, Carter before that Ford, then into Reagan and then Bush. and then Clinton, and then Bush again, and then Obama, and then Biden. He knew all of the ways of all these presidents, and there were some that he wanted to follow and imitate, and there were others that he didn’t want to have anything to do with their policies. So it’s kind of like what Daniel was going through. I’m sure that he talked to God many times about, Father God, this is a hard thing. This is a hard task for me. To be under this Persian rule and all of their idolatry and their ungodliness. Wow. Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. Right. And, you know, we I guess we could look at those presidents. There were Republican presidents. There were Democrat presidents. presidents and those two different, just looking at those two different platforms, none of them would keep leaders in place. They would just kind of wipe out all the leaders and put their own in place. So having Daniel stay and remain through these two different empires, these two different kingdoms, these five different kings, What a miracle, what favor from God. And I just wanted to look, there’s so much more to life than education and intellect. I really wanted to look at the things that are so highly valued in this life and compare them to what our God values. And in Hosea 4, chapter 4 and verse 6, it says, “‘My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.'” Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you.
SPEAKER 04 :
Wow.
SPEAKER 03 :
This is the Lord speaking through Hosea here. And this word for knowledge in the Hebrew, it’s not the same as our intellect and education and science, the logic. That’s not what this knowledge means. In this passage… the word da’ath from the Hebrew. It has a root of yada. Yada also has the root meaning hand, yad, hand. So that’s, when you think of knowledge, you don’t normally think of a hand. And the root there is really talking about reaching out with your hand to connect with his hand. It’s a hand in hand, kind of a familiar friend. It’s more of a feeling than it is an intellect. It’s relational and it’s gained, this kind of knowledge is gained through relationship. So we could say that it’s more experiential, not necessarily gained through study or intellect or logic.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes, that’s right.
SPEAKER 03 :
And the reason why that’s important is because that’s the kind of knowledge that God delights in. If we go to Hosea chapter 6, In verse 3, it says, so let us know. It’s the same word here. Let us know. Let us press on to know the Lord. It’s the same word as knowledge back in my people are destroyed for lack of this knowledge. Well, when you have a lack of connection with the Lord, a lack of being familiar with him, then… it’s real easy for the human system and just the flesh part of you to just be wiped into confusion, into chaos. And when we have the wisdom of the Lord, which is a relationship kind of wisdom, a hand in hand, intimate kind of knowledge, when we have that and we press on to know him, This section of Hosea 6 promises that his going forth, his connecting with us, is as certain as the dawn. Every day the sun comes up. It’s very certain. He will come to us like rain, like the spring rain watering the earth. And verse 6 says, For I delight in loyalty rather than sacrifice, and in the knowledge of God. There it is again, the knowledge of God. of God rather than burnt offerings. So the Lord delights in those of us who will seek him and want to know him in a familiar way, not just because we’ve studied and we’ve memorized and we’ve got all of the facts in our brain.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes. You talk about metaphors so much. And in this sixth chapter, he will come to us like rain, like the spring rain watering the earth. And that’s a spiritual kind of thing going on, Kimberly, in those of us whose hearts are open to wanting more of God, desiring more of him. And those physical reigns become the spiritual reigns. He’s just reigning his presence on those people that are open. They’ve got their hands open. They’ve got their hearts open. They want more of God. And they’re seeing such dramatic things going on in the spirit. Whereas the average Christian, oh, he’s just going along and, you know, going to church on Sunday sometimes and maybe given a dollar here, dollar there. He doesn’t enjoy the generosity and the absolute wonderfulness, wonderfulness of God. He’s not he’s not experiencing that.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, and I think that is part of that knowledge, that intimate knowledge is being in wonder, being in awe of our God, in awe and wonder of him. And, oh, you know, you were telling me about this morning. Really, it was in the middle of the night. I think most people would call that the middle of the night, how you were awakened.
SPEAKER 04 :
By a mighty rushing wind.
SPEAKER 03 :
A mighty rushing wind.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, for a few moments, yes. Oh, my goodness, yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
But you had a familiar drawing, a familiar sense. It was something that was intimate. It was not something connected to your intellect or your logic because it wouldn’t be logical to get up and go do what you did. But do you want to talk about that?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, yeah, I was explaining it to the listeners just a couple days ago that the fact that he said, go to the front door. I want you to listen. I want you to listen to the rain. So I went out there. I unlocked the door and I stood there on the front. And some of you who’ve been to my house, you know how that goes before the steps. There’s a wonderful little stoop there. And I just stood there enjoying the presence of God and. And thanking him for the wonderful, gentle rain. Because later on in the morning, Kimberly, I found out through the local news that baseball-size hail had damaged crops in Johnstown and Milliken and northern Colorado. And here it was such a gentle rain. It was like, I love you and I’m pouring out my presence upon you. And so then after about a half an hour of just standing there and enjoying his presence, a physical rain, but his presence raining. And I went to the piano and played for a while. It was such a beautiful time. And then I went and I slept for another hour. So it’s just so wonderful to know him.
SPEAKER 03 :
He fills us with his presence, and he rains down. Just like we were reading in Hosea 6, he will come to us like rain, like the spring rain watering the earth. And just like you were mentioning that that physical rain and spiritual rain can be connected, they all are connected. Yes. I don’t know how to disconnect the spirit from the physical, from the intellect and the emotion because we were created to be all together, all one. And we have 100% use of our physical body on this planet while we have 100% of a spirit being living in us. While we have 100% emotion and intellect, it’s… It’s all together, all in one. And that’s how I see us being formed in the likeness and in the image of God. He’s three in one. We are so complex. He is so complex. And he wants us to recognize that. that when there is a hunger spiritually and we’re asking for more of his presence, he wants us to recognize the answer to that prayer coming in the physical form of rain. Look at how it’s just coming in wave after wave in Colorado, here in Oklahoma, it’s doing the same thing. I do pray for mercy over the people that are experiencing the damaging winds and hail. I pray for restoration and redemption of that. And I know our father will watch over and perform that redemption and that restoration. I believe that because he’s so good. We just need to ask. And we have not because we ask not.
SPEAKER 04 :
That’s right. I was also telling the story about how the hail absolutely destroyed Grandpa Henkel’s crops when we had a farm north of Greeley. And the sadness of seeing my dad go out into the middle of the field and all he saw was just mud. No more beets, no more beans, no more corn, just stalks sticking up. And I wondered why. Why did that happen? And it’s like the Lord came. I want to show him a miracle. And so that was damaged. He went to the bank and got a loan. And he at least planted more beans because they come up so quickly. The next year, Kimberly. He enjoyed, Grandpa Henkel enjoyed being the top beat producer in Weld County. And God showed him that through loss, when you ask God, like you were just saying from James, you don’t have because you don’t ask. And Grandpa got the best crop he could have ever had. And it just came upon him because of God’s goodness. And then it probably paid for that loan. You know, his beet production that next year paid for that loan that he had to take out the year before. Why did that happen? And I was telling the folks, probably to build our faith. God is testing us, and he’s wanting us to build our faith and come to love him in such a dimension that we’ve never known like it before.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. And building our faith like that is bringing us a knowledge of him that is not intellect. It’s not logic. It’s giving us a knowledge of him that is intimate. It’s more like being held. It’s a hand in hand, being connected. in a way that you weren’t connected before. And often we find connection to be stronger when we’ve been through something difficult with someone.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 03 :
And then we come back from that and have healing. Then we have a stronger connection. You and I know that. You and I had some hard years. And we are more closely connected now because we went through those hard years. And there’s a song that I really enjoy. The title of it is Known Love. like you’re being known by God. And I know that he wants us to know him as well. I just love the words to this song. It’s so unusual. It’s frightening. You see right through the mess inside me. I don’t need to keep on hiding because I am fully known and loved by you. He knows the mess and he loves. I want to hear that song right now.
SPEAKER 02 :
It’s so unusual It’s frightening You see right through The mess inside me And you call me out To put me in You tell me I start again and I don’t need to keep on hiding I’m fully known and loved by you you won’t let go no matter what I do and it’s not one or the other it’s hard truth and ridiculous grace to be known fully known It’s so like you to keep pursuing. It’s so like me to go astray. But guard my heart with your truth. The kind of love that’s bulletproof. And I surrender to your kindness. I’m fully known. And loved by you You won’t let go No matter what I do And it’s not one or the other It’s hard truth and ridiculous grace To be known, fully known And loved by you I’m fully known And loved by you How real, how wide, how rich, how high is your heart? I cannot find the reasons why you give me so much. How real, how wide, how rich, how high is your heart? Now I cannot find the reasons why you give me so much. I’m fully known. Fully known. And loved by you. You won’t let go. No, you won’t let go. No matter what I do. It’s not one or the other. It’s hard truth and ridiculous grace to be known. Fully known. And loved by you. That’s so beautiful. Oh, I love that.
SPEAKER 03 :
And thank you, Rachel. You’re just right on top of those buttons when I say, I want to hear that. You’re just right there saying that.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, you know, I remember the song by Bill and Gloria Gaither. He who knows me most loves me best. He’s the one who knows me the most of me, all of me. And he loves me and delights in me. So you need to come back, Kimberly. We’ve got so much to talk about. God knowing us, knowing us deeply and fully and completely and loving us. Oh, so good.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes. It’s not just one or the other. It’s not seeing our mess and separating that out from loving us. He both knows our mess and loves us deeply and completely. And that’s what we want to stay focused on. That’s his kind of love, his kind of knowledge. that he wants us to delight in because it’s the knowledge he delights in. Yes.
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, praise God. Well, we’ll expect Kimberly to come back tomorrow, the Lord willing, and it’s going to be a wonderful time of experiencing God’s love for each and every one of us. God bless you, my friends. I love you. And take joy.
SPEAKER 01 :
Thank you for listening to Call to Freedom with Barbara Carmack. You may get in touch with Barbara at Call to Freedom, Box 370-367, Denver, Colorado, 80237. Or you may leave your message at 1-877-917-7256. Call to Freedom is a listener-supported radio ministry. Barbara and her power partners invite you to come on board with us and become a network of hands holding up Call to Freedom ministry. Power partners support Call to Freedom with prayer and monthly financial support. You will be blessed supernaturally. We invite you to visit Call to Freedom’s website, www.freedomstreet.org, where you can hear Barbara’s daily radio broadcast 24 hours a day or order materials. You may share your praise reports and heart cries by mailing them to Call to Freedom, Box 370-367, Denver, Colorado, 80237. Or you may email us at barbracarmack at freedomstreet.org. Until next time, remember, Jesus loves you, Barbara loves you, and take joy.
