Join Dr. Chrysandra Brunson as she welcomes the iconic Bob Goff onto the show. With his typical humor and deep wisdom, Bob discusses the importance of living out one’s calling. He takes us on his adventures, from building schools for children globally to imparting faith lessons learned from a stuffed animal incident at Disneyland. It’s a conversation filled with laughter, inspiration, and a call to fearless action.
Welcome everyone to The Calling’s radio show to all the dreamers. I’m your radio host, Dr. Chrysandra Brunson, founder and CEO of The Calling. And it is such an honor to be with all of you today. You know, at The Calling, we have realized that so many people are afraid to go after the dreams that God has put inside each one of our hearts because they are afraid to fail. And that is just plain wrong because if God has given us a dream and we’re not living it out, we are wasting it. And we do not want to die with regret. That’s why the calling we love to inspire, empower and equip people to after Jesus is calling on their lives to reap the best kind of eternal legacy possible to have immediate impact on ourselves and our families. We love to do this through so many different avenues from custom tools, programs, workshops, seminars. But especially through this radio show where we bring on world-renowned guests that share how they’re going after their God-given dreams and how you can do the same. Today is no exception. We are thrilled to have the one and only Bob Goff. Bob, welcome to the show.
BOB GOFF :
Hey, thanks a million. Great to be with you. Thanks for having me on.
CHRYSANDRA :
This is such an honor, Bob. And you really are just an icon in the faith. And we are just so thrilled to hear from you. Can you just share for our listeners, maybe the random one that perhaps doesn’t know your full background? Can you just share some of the leadership positions that you have been able to hold and perhaps some of the ways that they have heard from you?
BOB GOFF :
Yeah, my primary leader position is that I am the pastor of a church of 12. There’s me, and then I married Sweet Maria Goff, 39 years, four months and five days ago. And then we made three people, and then they married three people, and then they made four people. Wow. That’s the 12 of us. So that is my primary focus. And then what I did for a day job for 30 years is I was a trial lawyer, which is so crazy. I lived in San Diego, but I worked in Seattle and I flew up each morning and I went to work and I flew home at night for hours. Over a quarter of a century. Wow. And then I wrote a book along the way. There was a publisher that said that they would want to publish a book. And I said, well, I’ll trade you one book for one school. And so they said, how big is the school? And I said, oh, well, a thousand child soldiers and a hundred teachers. And they said, big school. I told them, big book. Wow. So they paid me in advance because I didn’t know if it’d be any good. But people enjoyed it. So I’ve written a couple more books. And every time we need another school, I write another book. So right now, what does is in 15 countries with about three or four schools per country. And and so I’m just a volunteer there. There’s a amazing woman named Jody Luke that is now heading up the whole thing and But every day is filled with just doing whatever she tells me to do. I’m a volunteer and donor. And that first job of pastor of a church of 12, that’s the one that I’m taking the most seriously right now. So really cutting back on things that take me away from home, other than we’re building a university in Uganda, a world-class university, like a $40 million thing. So it’s not like a small building with a cardboard sign. So what makes this unique is that I wanted to have a zoo. The thing in Africa is that it’s hard to find animals that don’t bite you or get away. Then I thought giraffes. It turns out the president of Uganda owns all the giraffes in Uganda.
BOB GOFF :
Really? 3,470 of them. And so while I work for him as the consul general of the country, but I really know his wife a lot better. So I went to her and I said, I just need six giraffes, but your husband has them all. Your husband ran over and grabbed him by the ear and we talked your ass for an hour and I walked out with six giraffes. So the whole idea, talk about ambitions and dreams and whimsy. I would just think it’s not just when like unicorns and confetti, but a strategic whimsy to assist. Yeah. It goes beyond just what you’re capable of, because otherwise I’d still be a trial lawyer. But to say that sense of calling that I know is so important to you and the focus. Oh, but so calling is feels like kind of this ethereal calling. idea when i started reading books i noticed that people write a country western song about a big old dog and a big old truck and and then if people like the song that they’re not available anymore or somebody gets a bit a movie and they’re not you have to talk to their agent and so i looked at the way jesus did it he got more of it so i put my cell phone number in the back of three million books And so I try to just be available. I’m never the smartest guy in the room. I’m not the smartest guy on this Zoom call. But to say, what if I’m just the most available person? And so that’s what I’ve been doing, a practice of availability. And with that, you’ll be constantly misunderstood. I’m available so they can pitch there. God told me to go to Fiji and learn how to surf, which is awesome. I think you should go on the trip to Fiji and learn how to surf. And I’ve got no, like do whatever he tells you or you get swallowed. I will. But, That sense of just being available with nothing on the other side of the equal sign. And I think sometimes in our faith communities, even though it’s well-intentioned, we love people with an agenda. And when love has an agenda, it isn’t love anymore. It’s a program. And so we don’t need programs. Jesus doesn’t need them for evangelism. It’s Matthew 18. It’s that big, like, who do you say I am story. And the end part that means so much to me is that flesh and blood doesn’t reveal that to you, but the Spirit of God will. So what we need to be, Jesus doesn’t need a PR person. He doesn’t need me to be all amped up. He just needs me to be available. That’s for me to do whatever they’re doing. We, I was talking to somebody in the business community and they said, we’re trying to get on the same page. And I’m thinking like, why just get on one page? Like don’t get on the same page. Cause my page is different than your page.
BOB GOFF :
And we don’t want just books of people that are in the same page. What makes for interesting reading is that we’re all working out our own stuff with a ton of humility and with some of that fear and trembling, but not being insecurity kind of fear, but just a reference. So. So anyway, that’s who I am. That’s what I’m doing right now.
CHRYSANDRA :
Well, Bob, we love you. But take us back, Bob, to your beginning stories as just a little boy. What was that like when you were little? How did God just start dropping these seeds in your heart to now be doing what you are today? And, you know, just even that journey of being a lawyer to now, yeah. I mean, just seeing all these pieces being connected. Yeah.
BOB GOFF :
Yeah, one of my earliest memories as a little kid is that we grew up in the Bay Area and I grew up in a castle, of all things.
BOB GOFF :
Yeah, yeah, they owned one. And now to anybody else, it was just a row house on the wrong side of the tracks in San Jose, California. Grandparents told me they lived in a castle and I believed them. They painted it bright pink because they got in line. The castles are supposed to be bright pink with white trim and property values cratered for a mile in every direction. But I had a room in their castle and they were so wealthy, although they were on Social Security, they were so wealthy that they had somebody make their meals for them. And they said his name was Swanson. And so this guy, Swanson, evidently delivered the meals in metal trays. And then I got to peel back the cobbler and let that brown in the oven. And like they would they died with more sodium in them than Lot’s wife. But they were the people that instilled in me this idea. imagination and joy and like to just not say it’s a castle but paint it to look like a castle and so i went to the magic castle in disneyland one time it was a big splurge for my parents and we drove down there and i remember being in the disneyland hotel this would be Gosh, 47 years ago. So, and I got like a $10 stuffed animal snake in the safari, whatever it was at Disneyland.
CHRYSANDRA :
The Jungle Cruise, maybe.
BOB GOFF :
That’s it. And I was dangling it over the balcony, looking out and somebody in the balcony beneath me grabbed a hold of the snake and started tugging it. And they started, I thought they were trying to take it away from me. And you can imagine the person, the lower one saw this thing dangling and they weren’t trying to be mean, I’m sure, but they were tugging on it. And I was just had that first fear that somebody is trying to take my stuff. And I think sometimes you’ll have. It’s not that that was the major imprint in my life, but a lot of our lives that we’re afraid that somebody is going to take our stuff, whether it is politically or in a faith community or whatever, that can be a thing that’s just under the surface percolating. And I’m spending a lifetime trying to understand this way of Jesus, which is to let your stuff go. But I didn’t want to let go of my little stuff. animal uh and so that’s how i feel but it’s uh now it’s a 1971 volkswagen bus that i don’t want to let go of it’s a stuffed animal but it has wheels and maybe somebody has a car that’s a little bit in better shape than that one but uh how do we let things go so fast forward there’s this crazy thing that because i go to disneyland every wednesday uh and i’ve got that Where every Wednesday, I get 12 people I can give cuts in line to the front. I can just, you don’t have to make an appointment. I just, 12 people. So I go every Wednesday. I’ll find somebody at the end of some two and a half hour line. Some little family. I’ll say… know this sounds super creepy maybe it isn’t true maybe it is we’ll have to see uh but we i can give you cuts to the front of the line and so but you’re at the end of the line so you’ve got nothing to lose i mean i just take a walk with me um and they are so delighted when they see that it’s true and when i think about evangelism when i think about what our role is uh with people It’s to give ourselves cuts to the back of the line and give other people cuts to the front of the line. People are afraid they’re going to lose their stuff and that they have to hang on to it because the message of Christ is that you got to lose all your stuff. You just give it away. It’s this paradox of like, you know, lead low, hold on to, let go of. And so if you don’t understand paradox and you’re not willing to grapple with it, then there might be some more that you could experience. There’s no shame in that. I just think of the paradoxes in your life, the people that wrong you, that you’d say, like, and so what’s my response to that? And I’m a lawyer. I mean, I win arguments for a living. There was actually somebody kind of trolling me, and I was like, oh.
CHRYSANDRA :
I’m going to stop you right there. We had to take a short break, but we’re holding on to our seats, Bob, and I have goosebumps all over because this truly is priceless wisdom. Everyone, you are listening to the world-renowned Bob Goff. We’ll be right back. Twist and shout with Lee & Co. They are the premier oldies band delivering the rock and roll vibes you’ve been missing. Great songs, great memories. Book them at LeeAndCo.com. Hi guys, this is Chrysandra Brunson, host of To All The Dreamers. I am so happy to introduce personal training, nutritional guidance, and behavioral change coaching. Healthy, happy, and heavenly for your wellness, spirit, soul, and body. Contact Mimi Kroger at healthyhappyandheavenly.com. Continue to grow in the calling God has for you through ORU online.
BOB GOFF :
You can earn your degree without changing your busy schedule. 100% online and 100% on your time. Learn more today, oru.edu slash calling.
CHRYSANDRA :
At Ignite Brilliance Coaching, you will get 34 years of science teaching, a decade of university-level instruction, and over 10 years of instructional coaching to empower educators with the tools, mindset, and confidence to thrive. Contact Ignite Brilliance Coaching on Facebook. We are back. Thank you for listening to all the dreamers radio show. I’m your radio host, Dr. Chrysandra Brunson, founder and CEO of The Calling. We have the one and only Bob Goff on with us. And Bob, you were just sharing before we went to break all about us being able to let things go and realizing what we are holding onto and that Jesus’s model as letting people cut in front of us. And I think that this might be the most, uh, life-changing thing that we need to hear especially in today’s age as we’re coming into 2026 um and you were just sharing about your experiences at disney
BOB GOFF :
Yeah, yeah. And I was there just last week and I was went through the security line like everybody does. And they are always looking in your pouches and all that, what you’re bringing in. And I get it. They wanted to be, you know, happiest place in the world and like no weapons. But I had some time to kill and I was asking the security guy, like, what’s something you find in these bags that people bring in? not the predictable stuff but it happens often enough that it makes you kind of like chuckle to yourself yeah he looked around like he was going to tell me a big trade secret or the launch and he said you know it’s crazy people bring in the remains of their loved ones to spread their ashes I mean, you can understand where that’s coming from, but it’s like, that’s like a hazmat thing. Like you can not be doing that. And I said, well, how often does it happen? He said, well, we have a code word for it and get this. It’s called code grandma. Somebody like deposited a spoonful of grandma in the Pirates of the Caribbean or on a teacup or something. And then they have to close it down and sweep them up with a shop vac or something. So I think what I’m mindful of is the brevity of our life. And we don’t know how long we have here. It kind of depends on the other driver. But Proverbs 90, you know, from Solomon, smartest guy ever. Uh, the, the said to just number your days and the 27,383. So that is the number that most of us get, give her less if you eat pop-tarts, but so like, what are you going to do? Yeah. You can do the math and say, what am I going to do before somebody goes code grandma with me, um, between now and what’s not just stuff that’s going to work, but what’s going to last. And that would be a little pivot. And some of these petty arguments that we’re having feel so personal. It feels like somebody’s tugging on your favorite stuffed animal. But some of that to just let go of that. I just don’t need to spend a lot of airtime on that. Some of the disagreements, I’m not saying run away from them. I’m just saying they aren’t going to last. It doesn’t matter. There’s some people that you’re in for… uh the long haul with and other people are there for a period of time and and then mazel tov let them just go live their beautiful life and you go live yours and um so if i could uh introduce a little bit more civility into things and instead of saying everybody else needs to be more civil or everybody else needs to show up that’s starting with me just like that whole other the uh i’m not going to break into a refrain of the man in the mirror but like with that idea like you know as for me and my household what we’re going to do is we’re just going to get positive stuff out into the ventilation system and not give a lot of air time to the other stuff Right. And hold back, maybe not be the first one to be like commenting on somebody’s mistake, but maybe send them a DM and to say, hey, would you like to come out? I have a place where people get better. It’s on me. Why don’t you just come out?
CHRYSANDRA :
Well, Bob, I think that you I mean, just in knowing you and everyone listening knows you as well. At least I’ve heard of you and your your legacy that you really are living out each one of these items in such a powerful way. What would you say, Bob? So in this season of going after your dreams and calling and the seasons of it and just trying to say yes to what Jesus has called you to, what has been one of the most miraculous? I know there’s so many, but what are the most miraculous scenarios that you have lived through that Jesus was calling you to do it, but you had no idea how it was going to happen?
BOB GOFF :
thinking the thing that sprung to mind when you said that is uh we were reading as you and your listeners were about what was going on in afghanistan with taliban 1.0 letting women learn and then they got thrown out and then taliban 2.0 comes into place and i didn’t know anybody in afghanistan and so i met a guy on whatsapp and he said he’s from afghanistan i’m like awesome i’m looking And so we started this friendship that spanned over weeks and then it turned into months, but I don’t know what team he’s playing for and you can not be talking to the wrong team. So I get things out of people. So I’m asking him questions like, like, so how do you spend your day? Like when I say the word enemy, who pops to mind? So he wouldn’t say who he was. So I get this. I bought a ticket and I flew to Kabul, Afghanistan to meet him.
BOB GOFF :
I got a text message and he said, Bob, I can’t meet you at the airport. What you need to do is leave the airport and start walking through Kabul and you’re going to find a car and the engine will be running. The last number of the license plates is seven. Get in the car. Is that crazy? Now, what would you do? What would your reaction be? We just be like, I’m out of here. Or would you be like thinking like what could possibly go wrong?
CHRYSANDRA :
I think, Bob, I’ve been through a couple scenarios, but, I mean, the average person is like, get me out of here.
BOB GOFF :
Yeah, so I just, like, I found a car. There was a 7. The engine was running, and I got in. And it wasn’t the guy there meeting me. It was a driver he sent. And what he wanted to know is if I would trust him enough to do what he told me to do. Hmm. then he’d trust me enough to build a girls’ school. And we got a girls’ school in a city out in the mountains in Afghanistan with 250 little girls learning how to read and write and all that. And it’s not because of me. It’s because there’s a brave Afghan man that has an office 30 feet from the president of Afghanistan that decided that he would show up if someone would trust him enough to do what he told them to do. And I think of the parallels. Woo! I think that invitation comes to us every day. Matthew 25, I was hungry, I was thirsty, I was sick, I was strange, I was naked, I was in jail. James, as a widow, as an orphan. So will we trust, no shame in this, but just stop agreeing with Jesus. because sometimes when we agree we think we’re doing something and he doesn’t want your agreement he doesn’t want my agreement he could care less if i agree it’s am i going to actually do that stuff and again no shame but i want to stop just agreeing with everything and then just start doing something whatever that is start on your start with your you know church of 12. that’s what i’m starting right like that across an ocean if you can’t fix it down the street that’s right the whole idea of go across the street yeah you have to go it’s continents but but to do it where it is like love your neighbor so yeah that’s the stuff i’m learning now fast forward last week taliban 2.0 gums in a place they band together and create an underground university because the taliban shut them all down they said no hold my earrings we’re making our own university And as I was on the Zoom call, you know how the number of people join you? It’s 100, 200, 300, 500, 900, 1,300 women, mostly in burkas, mostly as you can just see their silhouette because they’re hiding in a closet because they can’t let their parents or family know that they’re learning. Aww. That’s how I want to spend it. I want to mirror that kind of bravery and courage that people have. And if we get our hands on a swivel and do it across the street, find a courageous neighbor who’s doing something. Detail their car, mow their lawn, bake them a pie. If they don’t want it, I do. You’re just like… Think about those things. But to get your faith, this is John or Acts 4, 13. It said, they saw the courage of Peter and John, and they knew they’d been with Jesus. So it wasn’t like he did a Bible study or had a poster or a campaign. They just saw their courage. So that would be my hope. I just want to let people see your courage. I don’t care about your people of great doctrine and lousy theology. I want to have great faith. and great theology and loving people the way Jesus did is both.
CHRYSANDRA :
Amen. Oh my goodness, Bob. This is, I mean, it’s just priceless wisdom. We are coming up to the end of our show. We don’t know where time has gone, but we would love to have you back sooner than later. Bob, before we go though, we want to know, you know, for this listener tuning in and They are just trying to figure out what God has called them to. And they know deep down what it is, but they are scared to do it. What would you tell them?
BOB GOFF :
Man, just fail trying. Don’t fail watching. Because there’s a sense that you’re just like, oh, will this work? Will it not work? I just want to fail trying. I mean, I can’t tell you how many people that have been in the news that there’s a particularly angsty guy in South Korea or just north of South Korea that Kim Jong-un. Like, don’t just listen to things. Like, participate. I translated Love Does into Korean and sent him a case. Like I said, like, we should talk. Yeah. Like, I don’t want to be, I don’t want to, if I were invited and it’s not going to happen, but I would definitely go and I promise I wouldn’t take a selfie. Just don’t do it because somebody would think that’s swell. Do it because it would actually be really swell. Right. I would want people and forget across the ocean stuff. Find somebody who’s particularly disagreeable. Like it’s easy to love your friends, but love enemies. Find somebody. And and if you can want to figure out where you’re at in your faith, just see how you’re loving the person you disagree with the most. And it’s a target rich environment. I might be one of them. um so but just say how could you tolerate bob even though he’s irritating um how could i tolerate old man smith even though he’s irritating or right now something brentson what i want people to do is like let’s just do this and fail try it so maybe you try it maybe it doesn’t work but i’d go like you know what i didn’t just watch i gave it a whirl
CHRYSANDRA :
We love it, Bob. So much mic drop again. And Bob, tell us what’s coming up real quick with Israel and then how we can get in touch with you and get some of your upcoming books that are going to be released.
BOB GOFF :
You can find a book of mine at a used bookstore for a nickel. But we’re, I love taking people to the Holy land. Like I love taking them to Disneyland just cause for, if it’s not your steps, it’s just like a great, great thing. So we’ll go there again in April. I’ve got a school in Cana in Galilee. I’ve got Palestinian kids, Christian kids, Jewish kids, Arab kids. It’s just like, so we’ll swing by there and say, hi, we’ve got the same thing going on in Amman, Jordan for kids from Gaza. And so this trip to the Holy land will be just for people to spend 10 days and just go to all the places that showed up in the scriptures. So that’s it. Yeah. So it’s always a mischief going on. I’m a pretty easy guy to find.
CHRYSANDRA :
Well, we just love and appreciate you so much, Bob. And, uh, for your fearless example and your fearless faith, we are, we just honor you so much and just challenge everyone who’s tuning in right now, go pull over, follow God, Bob right now. And, uh, Be able to get involved. Act upon what God’s calling you today. And also go on these trips. Be a part of these schools. This incredible one in Uganda and all around the world. There are such incredible opportunities. Ask yourself what you would do if you knew you couldn’t fail. As Paul says in Ephesians 4.1, as a prisoner of the Lord, then I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. Till next time, dreamers. Keep dreaming big.
