In this episode of The Calling, host Cassandra Brunson listens to contemporary Christian musicians Brandon Lake and For King and Country talk about the power of songwriting with intention. They take some time discussing how songs can have faces, lives, and profound impacts. Brandon Lake shares his journey in music and faith, exploring how God’s presence and gratitude influence his artistic process.
Welcome, everyone, to The Calling’s radio show to all the dreamers. I’m your radio host, Chrysandra Brunson, founder and CEO of The Calling. And it is such an honor to be with all of you today. You know, at The Calling, we have realized that so many people are afraid to go after the dreams that Jesus has put inside each one of our hearts. Because they are afraid to fail. And that is just plain wrong. Because if God has given us a dream and we’re not living it out, we are wasting it. And we do not want to die with regret. That’s why at The Calling, we love to inspire, empower, and equip people to after God’s calling on their lives to reap the best kind of harvest possible to have eternal impact and have immediate impact on themselves and their families. We love to do this through global conferences, workshops, seminars, and especially just giving people the tools and confidence to live it out. Today is no exception. We have the one and only Brandon Lake. And for King and Country’s incredible couples, you don’t want to miss this.
BRADON LAKE :
I always start with like, hey, should we should we write or whatever? And then he called me and get on the phone. And an hour later, we’ve been talking about life and things that God’s teaching us. And how do we be a more present husband and father? And so then it just felt really special coming to the Ryman for the first time on my tour. And we were he actually hit me up a few days before they were like, dude, talking to you, this is just like my favorite song. I was like, well, are you coming to my show? He’s like, yeah, my whole family’s coming. I’m like, dude, well, I’m sure you want to enjoy the night, but it’s just in case you want to hop up and sing with me. I wouldn’t be opposed. And he’s like, dude, let’s do talking to Jesus and let’s record it. I’m like, usually the, like, I feel like I’m the one that gets to benefit from, from this situation the most. And I didn’t have to ask. He’s just like, dude, let’s do it. And so it was a beautiful moment. And then for us to be able to write a verse for Nashville and, was just a perfect opportunity, him being from there. And just, it felt really powerful and special. And so, yeah, I love him like a brother. We enter into his courts, into his presence with Thanksgiving, with gratitude, right? And for me, it’s crazy even having some awesome success over the past few years. And it’s crazy how quickly you can lose that spirit of gratitude and things can become burdens, not blessings. And so every time I’ve led that song, you can’t help sing that song and not have a heart of gratitude. I shouldn’t be alive. My mom had six miscarriages and somehow I’m here and I have a brother and a sister who are alive. I have so much to be grateful, grateful, grateful for. I am a living, breathing, walking, talking miracle. And, um, when you think back on your story, um, you can’t help, but, but be grateful. And, um, it also has been, the song has been a reminder that God can use anyone and he can use anything. That song almost didn’t make my record and wasn’t a single, wasn’t a highlighted track. And wouldn’t it be like God to take a song, the one that wouldn’t almost didn’t make it. Um, I’ve heard the same kind of story about greater you Lord, probably a song that’s sung by every worship leader, you know, 365 times a year, you know, and it’s just crazy. Um, It’s reminded me that God will use the least likely person and the least likely song to change other people’s lives. I like to write songs with faces. I’ll encourage other songwriters to not write faceless songs. I think the most powerful ones are when you’re writing it for someone. And there are songs that I am writing right now that I want to hear my brother sing one day. There’s breakthrough to be had in his life. And so I write, obviously, with so many loved ones in the forefront of my mind. I don’t know if you guys are familiar, but I just came out with a record not too long ago that was kind of mental health focused. And I came off my first tour and had written in the same few weeks, written with all my heroes like Elevation, Pastor Stephen Furry, Matt Redman, so many others. And I came home and I experienced anxiety for the first time in my life and a complete panic attack. And so with this new pace, I’ve had to develop new tools and how to stay healthy. And luckily, I have amazing mentors that were sitting and standing in that room that have come alongside me and supported me. burned out and then finally got back. Like you can develop the tools now. And so that’s probably one of the biggest challenges, but opportunities is because I don’t just see it as a challenge to make sure that I stay healthy. I see as an opportunity that I get to learn it young so that even the next generation, the next Brandon’s, if I’m honest and I’m talking about the process, putting out a record about my feet, that maybe those guys, those girls won’t, won’t have that issue. And as they step up and stand on my shoulders. Oftentimes it feels like I’ve got three Holy Spirits. I’ve got the Holy Spirit. And then I have Brandon Breitenbach over here to my right. He’s often the voice of the Spirit. And my wife, Brittany Lake, is often, you know, God speaks through people all the time. And it’s one thing that I don’t ever say yes to something without getting a blessing from my wife. And, yeah, I learned from Stephanie Gretzinger a while back. She said every invitation that I get, whether it’s a feature or if it’s to show up and do this worship set at this event, I simply – and I know this is elementary, but it’s like I just ask, Holy Spirit, should I do this? And when you do that daily or you do that regularly – It’s not that hard to hear his voice. And I don’t always get it right, but he has grace for that. And I come home and I go, okay, how do we do this differently? Was that too long? Was I gone too long? Those are tools we’ve had to develop. After nine days, things start breaking down at home. I start breaking down. And so, yeah, it’s like hearing his voice in the moment, but also putting and staying in the practice of boundaries. It benefits me to be still connected, one, for my soul, my spirit, a tree planted by streams of water, right? It’s going to be a tree roots that flourish. And that’s important to me. I was raised a local church kid. I’m a PK, and that’s not changing. And so I stay healthy when I stay planted. But also, like I was saying, the faceless songs versus the songs with faces. I tell writers all the time, you’ve got songs walking around in your foyer everywhere. You just got to go get to know them. a song called too good to not believe every lyric of that bridge. I’ve seen cancer disappear. I’ve seen metal plates dissolve. I’ve seen families reunited. I’ve seen broken bodies healed. I’ve seen addicts finally free. Like those are, those are things that those are, those are lines that have faces to them and they’re people in my church. and we have seen the reports. And that’s why I feel so encouraged and challenged to when I’m out leading worship is to lean into that, knowing that people, it’s the thing we all have in common, right, is pain and disappointment. And so I don’t want to just come out and entertain and sing some songs. Like, I want to go after the things people need the most and they need healing and whatever it looks like mental illness, like for me, um, or if it’s cancer, like I at least want to believe the full Bible, not just a part of it. I want to plead. I want to believe the parts that are the hardest to understand. And I don’t understand, but I do know he’s done it before. And if you did it before, there’s a chance we’ll do it again. Cause he hasn’t changed. And so, um, uh, me being planted in my church, even though we’re charismatic with the seatbelt on real tight, I’m the weirdo there. Yeah. But we believe that. And so it’s important because there’s testimonies all around me, which give me faith to continue to do what I’m called to do.
CHRYSANDRA :
We need to go to a short break, but you are listening to Brandon Lake. And for King and Country’s couples, the world-renowned group will be right back. Hi guys, this is Chrysandra Brunson, host of To All The Dreamers. I am so happy to introduce personal training, nutritional guidance, and behavioral change coaching. Healthy, happy, and heavenly for your wellness, spirit, soul, and body. Contact Mimi Kroger at healthyhappyandheavenly.com. Continue to grow in the calling God has for you through ORU Online.
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CHRYSANDRA :
We are back. Thank you for listening to all the Dreamers Radio Show. I’m your radio host, Dr. Chrysandra Brunson. And so honored that we have the one and only Brandon Lake, as well as for King & Country and their amazing wives, being able to share how they’re going after their God-given dreams. Tune in.
COURTNEY :
Next up, I’d probably say the better half of King & Country. Well, that was kind. Hi, you guys. I’m Mariah.
MARIAH :
This one’s Courtney. Not the other way around. Sometimes it’s Coco and Momo. Yes, you’re feeling up to that. I know it’s been a long day. You can throw that out.
COURTNEY :
The first thing that comes to mind is actually the fact that we travel with them a lot. And at all times, one of my god sons or god daughter, Courtney’s kids, they’re out on the road. Courtney comes. I go out. So… My husband and I have a two-week rule. We don’t go longer than two weeks without seeing each other. Over the years, that length has gotten smaller and smaller. But when we first met, we were long distance and both touring. And so I think it’s like anything else. It’s a muscle that takes practice and strategy and conversation and intentionality. And so… I think the biggest challenge is just lining up the calendars. But we will cross oceans and we will take trains and planes and Ubers and do whatever we need to to be together. How about you, Coco?
MARIAH :
I think the high is getting to do that together. I mean, obviously, we haven’t done things normal, you know, whether it’s when we were touring in vans or RVs or tour buses and taking little kids into all these random places. but it’s so worth it because what are your priorities? You just build your life around it. And there’s joy there. We’ve had great adventures, so many memories, so many beautiful people. Like you get to, I would say a joy is meeting people from all over the world and seeing actually kind of how the United States is like the Midwest has a vibe. Okay. Florida has a vibe. You’re going to have a good show in Florida. Yeah. it’s true and you know it so that’s kind of fun to see kind of how that is i would say some of the hard things has been you know i have four young kids and you know sometimes it’s like awesome and you know god graces you for these things but then sometimes you get covered for the fourth time and a stomach bug comes that’s real life so sometimes it’s just hard and you’re like okay lord You’re going to provide, and he does in different ways. It could be a grandparent. It could be a friend calling you. It could be, you know, those moments. So it’s not easy, but it’s really good.
COURTNEY :
And can I just brag on this woman too, speaking of challenges, like a lot of people weren’t really around and we didn’t get to see a lot of you guys in the early stages of building for King & Country. But when we were in Vans and Trailers, Courtney, even before Joel and I were married, when we were just dating, Courtney was pregnant and sleeping at the back of vans across the country. And then she would show up to a venue, help set up merch, and then run lighting for their shows. So it really is built from the ground up by, like you said, making decisions to be intentional with your time and prioritize. So Unsung Hero is a movie that the four of us have really poured into. My husband co-directed and acted in it. I co-produced it. And Luke and Courtney have been arm in arm the entire way from the beginning to the end. And the beginning really was coming up with the script at the beginning of last year. And we’re really just telling the story of our immigrant family. I mean, we, we, even though we married into this family, we consider ourselves to truly be a unit. And so we’re telling the story of Helen and David, or for us, mom and dad packing 12 suitcases, packing up six kids with a seventh on the way and moving from Australia to America with nothing but hope in their pockets and, um, The thing that really excites me about this story is, yes, it’s celebrating women and it’s celebrating the sacrifice and the leadership and the backbone of a family being a mother. But, you know, I’m not a mother. I’m a daughter. I’m a sister. I’m a wife. And I get to cheer on the mothers that have made a way. And I love that it’s telling the story of an immigrant family. You know, that’s that can be a very like politically divisive and sometimes not so palatable topic. But I think this film does it in a way that kind of skips all that and goes through the back door of the imagination and just hits you straight in the heart. So I’m excited for you guys to see it. Yeah, I don’t know about me and Courtney doing a duo, but, you know, we’re always down to support the guys. I do love singing with them. I mean, Pioneers is a beautiful, beautiful moment. And we, you know, we don’t really sing very much together. I don’t know about you, but like in real life, like at home, it’s very quiet. For me and Joel, we have no children. And so we have no art on the walls. We have a white couch. It’s as ridiculous as you can imagine. And it’s just peaceful. We don’t sing. When we do sing, it’s always a joke. It’s like, and you look so good. You are my boo boo.
MARIAH :
You know, we make it real nasally. And yeah, so we do. I can attest that is true. So true. So it was during the film they did a long, long, long time ago called Priceless. And it was released in Puerto Rico. And the movie wasn’t working yet. And so Luke had to go up and talk to everyone and just come up with stuff. So he was pretty much like a comedian is what he thought. And he was like, oh, they just love me here. They’re laughing at everything I’m saying. And I was like, babe, it’s really not that funny. I think they just feel awkward because they’re waiting for the movie. But he was like, no, no, they love me in Puerto Rico. And it was just hilarious. And I couldn’t stop laughing. I was crying laughing. Because he really was like, this is hilarious. This is great. I just will never forget it. It was one of those trips you like fly in and you fly out within 24 hours. You’re just dazed and confused. And then the movie’s not working and Luke’s telling jokes in Puerto Rico and everyone’s laughing.
COURTNEY :
so that’s a memory and we say that now looks funny but only in puerto rico um one of my favorite memories and again this is not something you guys are going to find online you’ll never see pictures of this but um one of my favorite memories is when the band was first starting and uh the boys were playing a show at a venue here in natchville called third and lindsley and um We needed to try to get as many friends and family and people there as possible. Nobody knew about them. No one was really fighting to get tickets. And so we decided that we would go to a youth group that used to meet at Brentwood Baptist called Kairos. I don’t know if you guys are familiar with that. It was one of the cool kids. And we had a bunch of flyers that we made to promote the show. And we were just going to put them on all the cars, the four of us. The only issue was that it started raining and we had that one night. So we went and bought Ziploc baggies and the commitment, the commitment from the beginning is what really is. I’m very proud of. We backed all of these flyers, y’all. And this is like 500 flyers. This is no joke. were just like calluses. And we’re putting these on all of the windshields. Since then, Kairos did create a ban on promoting things with people’s cars. So I’m sorry, Kairos, Brentwood Baptist, but I have a beautiful memory.
CHRYSANDRA :
I was just going to ask how your guys’ love story. We all love to hear a love story. So just a summary of both of your guys’.
COURTNEY :
I think the gist of it is that Joel and I were set up by a mutual friend who was invited to Luke and Courtney’s wedding in Franklin, Tennessee, June 26, 2010. And she felt like God told her that she was supposed to introduce me to Joel. So she told her husband, honey, you stay home. This girl, Mariah, is going to be my plus one. She’s going to be a wedding crasher because I have to introduce her to Joel, who was in the wedding. And I went knowing absolutely nobody. Courtney was so kind, the kindest bride. And I had to wait in line. to meet Joel. And I was like, this is not Disneyland. He is not Aladdin. Why am I standing in line? And by the time I got to him, I was very irritated and very rude. But we wrote a song together over the course of a week. And that’s how our creative collaboration started. That’s how we fell in love.
MARIAH :
She was the best wedding crasher ever. I saw the whole thing. She was wearing lavender. Like I was really watching. Okay. Joel was very sad. And I was like, you need point love, buddy. Can’t always be with us. So the first time I met Luke, I actually was living in South Florida and my sister was working in a church here and I came up and I was helping her set up for a Christmas service. And so I was setting up the stage with poinsettias and Luke was setting up the lighting at the church. He used to do that all the time. And so we were just both working in that auditorium silently and And then my sister was like, oh my goodness, Arnie, you need to meet this guy. And you know, I was in an Alanis Morissette phase. I don’t need no man. So anyway, he remembers me as a girl who didn’t talk to him because my sister really wanted us to work out. Obviously, we did. So that was how we met. And yeah, it was just so sweet. Okay. You know, people who, you know, they were trying to be in music, right? This is Nashville. And I had a judgment against like, I am not going to date anyone in music. I am not going to do it because they’re all full of themselves. And then Luke comes along and he has the sweetest, most golden heart. And then I literally apologized to him. I said, I’m sorry. I’ve been rude to you. I kind of put you in a box of like this and you’re just not that. So he still has that same heart today. So that’s just a little, little take in.
CHRYSANDRA :
Thank you for listening to this incredible show about Brandon Lake and for King and Country. We are so honored to have both of them knowing that they’re going after their God-given dreams and that this is your time, your day for you to do the same. Remember to ask yourself, what would you do if you knew you could not fail? Till next time, dreamer. Keep dreaming big.
